How do we save MTG from painfully obvious and idiotic flavor text? I mean, look at this card. Could they make it any more bland and unimaginative?
100% percent of neowalkers quotes fall in one two categories
1 - Empty bravado
2 - Snarky comment
It's destroying my immersion, /tg/. It's really killing this game for me and I don't know what I can do to stop it.
Wow thanks for your input Liliana, you really showed that dum' old Jace!
BECAUSE ALL SHE DOES IS BURN THINGS
GET IT? BURN THINGS!
HA HA HA
Wow.... so..... deep....
Really made me think!
>>48145368
>>48145392
>>48145408
They're super heroes, buddy, comes with the territory.
Next you'll tell me something stupid, like, YOU DIDN'T WANT FUCKING CAPES IN YOUR MAGIC.
Good thing you wouldn't do that.
Now enjoy your capes.
Bad flavor text thread?
This one reads like it was written by an idiot.
>>48145408
I actually like that one. It's got a decent punchline and sounds more like a natural exchange between the characters. Besides, Chandra is just Jaya Ballard 2.0 and literally all of Jaya's flavor text was about fire and people liked her enough.
Flavor text is also a tool to portray character and their motivations as well as their development. You get to know them through flavor text if you don't read up on lore.
Flavor text also summarizes in bullet points the post important events of the story, which is also helpful if you don't read up on lore.
Is it bad that Tamiyo, who should be the blandest most humble planeswalker as a character trait, is actually the most interesting? Her flavor text doesnt fall under those categories. I really hopethey dont fuck her up
>>48145392
Her full speech in not so bad, but they can't give much space for the flavor text. Unless it's about how werewolves hate collars.
>>48145408
I think it's amusing.
>>48145463
Because there weren't 4932023453 variations of the same character.
Because they didn't feel the need to give us a card portraying Jaya when she was a kid.
Because they didn't feel the need to give us a card featuring Jaya's fucking parents.
>>48145463
There are times when I forget that Jaya and Chandra are two different people
>>48145408
I think it fits Chandra. This is a cheesy fantasy card game, not a goddamn Shakespeare.
>>48145469
It's because she doesn't have hint of "cleverness"
Everyone is fucking clever, very few are smart.
>>48145368
Hang on, aren't they basically doing what they did in the Weatherlight sets but with NuWalkers? Didn't they say that it ended up being bad for them? Has someone told MaRo?
>>48145469
Humility is a fucking rare trait in planeswalkers.
That and she comes off as learned, not just snarky.
>>48145368
>>48145392
>>48145408
>>48145436
Uh-oh, everyone, looks like grandpa's up from his nap. And he's sober!
>>48145519
>>48145601
New shits are bad anon. Rose tinted goggles and all of that.
>>48145616
No, by Weatherlight I mean how they fucked the set sideways by shoving Gerrard into every fucking card. Pretty sure they said doing so was determined to be a bad idea
Is this the dawn of quipkino?
Well what would you write in these?
>>48145616
>Rose tinted goggles and all of that.
>>48145629
But anon, Gerrard is old and busted! Our market research shows us that everyone loves our star Planeswalker™ Jace Beleren™ and his friends the heroic Gatewatch™! Buy our sets and find out how Jace™ and the Gatewatch™ save the Multiverse™!
>>48145659
I've wanted to use this in my Boros EDH deck for so long but can't bring myself to do it
>>48145446
wow really makes u think
>>48145656
>"Are thou serious, my dear Gideon?"
>>48145763
>Are
>not art
Get out
>>48145687
>Hey this Shakespeare quote doesn't actually have anything to do with the card
>Eh fuck it, put it on there anyway. At least people on the internet will feel smart for liking it
>>48145775
Hey they need to insert something for us to whine about.
>>48145656
Replace with "He who paints the earth red".
>>48145745
Makes me think Chandra is a bitch.
>>48145776
>doesn't actually have anything to do with the card
>clearly mentions a DRAGON WING of the NIGHT
>as in a dragon as BLACK as the night
>black as EBON
>EBON DRAGON
You just don't get pottery.
How did we go from this...
>>48145856
To this?
>>48145776
Fuck you, quotes from sources outside mtg are objectively the best, it's a shame they stopped doing this.
>>48145853
I honestly can't tell if this is sarcastic or not
>>48145810
Jokes about female bodily functions are never funny. Period.
>>48145368
"You brought this upon all these completely unrelated innocent people, Sorin!"
>>48145856
>>48145873
jesus christ this is awful
>>48145875
I like the old qt Righteousness
>>48145882
>>48145896
she's angry because of bad interplanar phone reception. Cant believe this writing
>>48145875
Except they rarely have anything but the most cursory relevance to the card, don't build up the world or characters, have zero creativity to them, and are just there to be pretentious garbage.
>Oh he quoted Moby Dick. That's a book, and books are for smart people. If I like this, I'll be smart!
>>48145776
Nice bait, but you made one mistake, no one's actually that retarded.
>>48145882
I get it
>>48145916
Yeah 5th Edition was great. Off the top of my head I remember liking the flavor on Giant's Strength, Bog Wraith, Righteousness, Scathe Zombies, and Wind Drake.
>>48145920
You do realize he was making a pun, right?
How did we go from this >>48145745
to idiots who needs to post twice >>48145856 >>48145873
>>48145856
>>48145873
Because the first flavor text doesn't fit goblins at all. It's way too articulate to be an actual goblin quote. It would only make sense if it was just a description of the goblin society, like in Goblin King's flavor text.
>>48145873
Because everyone knows Goblins are dumb, cowardly chugnuts! how dare someone flavour them as articulate, intelligent creatures. Rectify this immediately!
- T.Wizards
>>48145931
>don't build up the world or characters
have you considered for a moment thatthe real world is just another plane in MTG?
>>48145953
I like this flavour.
>>48145931
Are you really still in the "books r 4 smart peepl" stage and old enough to post on this board? Go fuck off to /lit/ then if you want to make that argument.
>>48145948
I'm on mobile, I can't merge the images.
pls no bully
> new magic is trash
> old magic was better
You are like the old grumpy people complaining about the terrible youngsters while feeding pidgeons in the park...
Get a hold of yourself.
>>48145957
>what is characterization?
There are intelligent goblins, like Daretti, but they are exceptions rather than the rule. You can't just have a whole race characterized by having little to no intellect suddenly be all poetic and shit.
>>48145934
>He disagrees with me
>Must be bait
>>48145931
Except in this case, it's an interesting quote to use because it juxtaposes the quote as metaphor in a classic piece of literature with the quote interpreted literally with an actual goblin and an actual mortar exploding his chest. They're not just quoting it like "lmao we're so smart" they're M A K I N G A J O K E you pretentious coon.
>>48145986
No, it's criticism of a very conscious decision made in Origins to paint their bland story shit all over the cards so it can't be simply ignored anymore.
>>48145502
>Because there weren't 4932023453 variations of the same character.
yes there were you fucking faggot
>>48145875
>not 'I got it! I got it! I--'
literally the best flavortext
>>48145986
And you are like the petulant child who knows no better, so kindly go back to your containment thread: >>48143888
>>48146001
1) The warchief is in a position of authority and it is therefore not unbelievable that he might be more intelligent/articulate than the average goblin
2) Goblins appear on many planes and are not all the same in terms of characterizations.
3) Go fuck yourself.
WHERE IS NICOL BOLAS
>>48146012
Exactly. That's not clever or funny because literally anyone can find some quote in some book about metaphorically blowing up and turning it literal. Just because its a J O K E doesn't make it a good one, and doesn't mean it makes any more sense in regards to what's physically happening on the card
>>48146071
Waiting for the infinity stones to be all introduced
>>48145986
Careful, don't aggravate his angina or piles
>>48146071
Waiting for everything to fall into place. All according to keikaku.
>>48145368
>How do we save MTG from painfully obvious and idiotic flavor text? I mean, look at this card. Could they make it any more bland and unimaginative?
When can we stop having people like you bitch? I like that flavourtext.
>>48145392
I especially like this one.
>>48145408
>We love when Jaya did this
>We hate when Chandra does it
>>48145446
What are you even talking about? It's perfectly fine.
>>48145502
>Implying people don't want that
Also, why are you so fucking salty? The game was like six years old then. They still found the time to make two or three versions of the same character. There are three versions of Kamahl.
>>48145776
>>48145687
>>48145853
>>48145875
I am honestly so fucking glad they stopped putting barely relevant Eng Lit quotes on cards.
>>48146061
>position of authority
The one we're literally told is achieved through assassination?
Yeah, that must take a lot of eloquence.
>Go fuck yourself
>instantly gets butthurt because too retarded to understand goblins of all things
Top kek, /tg/.
>>48145957
>>48145873
>>48145856
You know, this one made me upset at first too, but then I realized that a lot of people liked the second flavor text. There are loads of people who like their goblins with silly flavor text. Hell, even I like some of the silly goblin flavor text they put out -- my favorite for Mogg Fanatic is the "I got it!" one.
I think it's nice that they printed the first one, and I like it a lot, but if I were someone who really liked my goblins silly I would have been disappointed. Because really, it sounds cool and all, but if you're expecting a joke it just comes off as melodramatic.
So, really, I think it's nice that we have both versions, and people can get whichever version they like more.
>>48145687
I liked classic literature quotes on some cards, specifically core set cards. For a generic dragon, it's kinda neat to have a little thing from Shakespeare about dragons, and for generic enchantments (e.g., Giant Strength) I like that they can feel like they come from any plane because their flavor or flavor text ties them to one location. I think people complaining about pretension are way over concerned about what is realistically speaking a very niche issue at worst.
Guy who posted Ebon Dragon here. I think the literature quotes were pretentious too. Just getting in a jab at the guy who said "this isn't Shakespeare" where there's dozens of cards with Shakespeare on them.
>>48145856
>We are goblinkind! Arson is our call to war!
That would actually be pretty good. The full text doesn't fit that card, though. Maybe with Goblin Warchief's art.
>>48145745
>>48145851
I love Jaya Jr.
I hope that the climax of Aether Revolt is just Chandra finding out Jaya is still alive and on Kaladesh and they team up to set everything on fire.
>>48146148
I'm pretty sure he was talking about why Chieftain could be less dumb. Personally, I like the quote, but it doesn't fit the art.
>>48145896
>>48145922
>Sorin apologists
She's angry because she was locked in the fucking Helvault for millennia. Jesus fucking Christ.
>>48145934
>>48145975
>>48146012
I feel like you're giving way too much credit when you say they're making a joke. They clearly weren't. They took a quote that was barely relevant and put it on the card.
Why do I come to these threads? I fucking hate how stupid /tg/ is. I thought this was a spoiler thread.
>>48146226
>There are loads of people who like their goblins with silly flavor text.
Hell, I usually do too. I was just glad they decided to print one that sounded competent. Like a force to be reckoned with. Them changing it the next core set sent the message they felt like it was a mistake and that they'd never do it again.
One of my favorite Goblin related texts:
>>48146307
>Them changing it the next core set sent the message they felt like it was a mistake and that they'd never do it again.
I don't really think that's some message they're sending. They often change up the flavourtexts. It's a lot easier than changing art.
>>48146299
>I'm pretty sure he was talking about why Chieftain could be less dumb
He was arguing for goblins with human levels of articulation though, not less dumb. If Chieftain can lead other goblins then obviously he's less dumb.
>>48145940
Good for you. It's scarier when you don't.
>>48146634
kek
How come those old cards feel so magical while the new stuff feels so flashy but shallow?
>>48146713
>muh cee gee ayyyyyyy
>>48146713
Because you're older and nostalgic.
>>48146713
Because old magic was written by some nerds that loved the game and new magic is written by a corporation that loves the money.
>>48146713
Because.
>>48146713
Because they are old.
It's like looking at Heiroglyphs and cave painting and then looking at a comic book and saying the ancient stuff is more mystifying.
>>48146713
This >>48146932
Do you know that romans used to scribble dick jokes on their wall and those are now prized historical artifacts?
>>48146029
There weren't. You only have Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. Give me another card of Jaya. Hint: you can't. It doesn't exist.
>>48145368
>implying flavor text was ever good
>>48146723
CGA?
>>48146984
>Jaya is the only character
Kamahl has three.
Jeska has three
>>48147154
Color Graphics Adapter.
>>48147181
You're going to have to explain.
>>48145368
Magic flavor is dead. As somebody who used to consider themself a vorthos, I can only see magic cards as payloads for mechanics now, because I literally cannot be assed to care about the story.
I ok with literary quotes on cards, but they must be relevant. >>48145687 is an absolutely terrible flavour text for example, while >>48145875 or >>48145916 work.
And fuck you >>48145408 is okay. As is >>48147021
>>48147154
>Jeska has three
2.33 actually
Does someone have that Ancient Grudge photoshop that made its flavortext ridiculously long?
>>48147021
>Implying this is not a fantastic use of flavour
>>48147257
Gotchu phamb
>>48146071
outside of your patheitc imagination.
>>48145436
Triggered
>>48147242
Hey, come on. Geralf and Gisa still counts as one card, and so does Brisela. Technically.
Jeska was on three cards, even if she Melded.
>>48147257
>>48147283
What pisses me off about this is that it isn't the worst flavour text to start with, but holy fuck does the internet love memetic mutation.
>>48147266
>>48147021
They put the emphasis on the wrong word.
>>48147428
I'm a fan. Its funny because the card text thinks you're an idiot (common problem). The shoop takes it to the logical extreme.
>>48146299
>She's angry because she was locked in the fucking Helvault for millennia. Jesus fucking Christ.
>tries to kill Sorin for bad cell reception
>Sorin puts her in timeout
Oh, so that justifies plane-wide genocide against unrelated third parties? I guess every ex-con in the world has a fucking license to kill, too
>>48147524
>Its funny because the card text thinks you're an idiot
And it's probably right 87% of the time.
>>48145368
>ITT: autism
>>48147542
I think the problem with Sorin and Nahiri fags is that fans of the edgelord think giving a reason for what she's doing is the same as justifying it. There is no grey area where you can see the reason behind a decision without agreeing with it
>>48147583
Agreed. This thread is fucking patheitc.
(the land continues to burn)
>>48147632
Honorary flavor.
>>48147154
>Jaya is the only character
Man, I dunno, maybe the conversation kind of, yknow, was about Jaya, especially considering >>48145502 was all about pointing out differences in the handling of Jaya vs Chandra, exposition-wise. I'm kind of confused as to where the other names came from, considering they're completely unrelated.
>>48147428
What gets me about the original flavor text is that it would have been perfectly fine without "the symbol of her church" because if it wasn't blatantly obvious before through the art, you could figure it out by looking at two additional cards with the symbol in the art.
It's not bad, but it kinda assumes that the card is somehow in a vacuum instead of the context of the entire set.
>>48145656
I'd pull a ygo and delete flavor text from existence and let the card art speak for itself.
So, uh.. Can I just post flavor text I like? I've had this conversation before.
Here is some goblin flavor text that I feel hits a good balance between idiots and threats.
>>48145601
MaRo doesn't have anything to do with the flavour text, they have arts grads to do that. Which explains why it's all such total garbage.
>>48147524
It doesn't think you're an idiot. It thinks you don't follow the Uncharted Realms.
>>48147542
It wasn't for "bad cell reception" you dumbass. It was because he was telling her to fuck off while Zendikar's defenses were failing. You can argue that he said "in a minute" or that he was concerned with Avacyn and Innistrad, but Zendikar was literally the bulwark against an interplanar threat, and Sorin didn't care.
He didn't put her in "timeout", either. He trapped her in a prison with all the evil of his plane for untold millennia to be tormented by evil and darkness at every moment. He basically sent her to rape-prison. Because he was busy.
No ex con in the world was sent to *literally a prison filled with Demons and Devils* for *thousands of years*.
She isn't really even committing a genocide in the first place, she's destroying Sorin and his forces. She's mad (in the crazy sense) and driven by rage, like most Red characters. She's not going around murdering people, she's just not caring for the people who get in the way, because, again, she's Red.
>>48147592
Oh, no. The justification is just "Sorin is dumb".
But personally, I think the fact that these two children are hissyfitting and acting like player characters while the Gatewatch is dealing with the fallout of their lover's quarrel is honestly the best part of the block.
>>48147659
>>Because there weren't 4932023453 variations of the same character.
>yes there were you fucking faggot
This was not exclusively about Jaya. Even then, Jaya was on quite a few cards as flavourtext and people would love if all instances of "Chandra" and "Nalaar" were replaced by "Jaya" and "Ballard".
>>48147704
Actually, "If there's one thing a werewolf hates, it's a collar" would have been all that's needed.
I'm not saying it's great. I'm just saying it's not as bad as people are making it out, and it's not like it's THE ONLY flavourtext. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon, though.
>>48147704
That card was actually what clued me in to what that symbol meant before I started going online to talk about MtG.
Before that, I didn't recognize it was a collar or that it meant anything. I actually had assumed it was just a recurring cryptic symbol.
>>48145931
Considering how awful the worlds and characters they tried to build up are I'd take them over the schlock modern WotC writers produce.
>>48147762
>MaRo doesn't have anything to do with the flavour text
Damn shame, be cause he used to and he was the GOAT at it
>>48147776
>it's not as bad as people are making it out
No one thinks Ancient Grudge is literally Hitler. Its stupid and funny and a good example of clumsily written bad flavor text.
>>48147776
I don't care whether Sorin is a dick or not. Nahiri is literally Hitler, and her not caring about the people she's genociding is NOT a point in her favor.
Also fuck you for doing respond-to-everyone posts
>>48147776
But then you would have people asking "what the fuck does that flavor text have to do with anything?", he's destroying some statue thing. It doesn't even look like a collar.
>>48147751
Holy shit that would be terrible
>>48147807
That's because MaRo isn't /just/ an arts grad, he's also intellectually curious and very well read.
He's also probably the greatest artist in magic history.
>>48146713
Look at this magical art!
>>48147755
Is that a preggo goblin warrior?
>>48147751
No.
>>48147802
>>48147832
>I didn't recognize it was a collar
I feel like this is why they did that. Because it doesn't really look like a collar. But really they should have just bit the bullet and let players assume that was meant to be a statue of Avacyn's Collar. As depicted on the card... Avacyn's Collar.
>>48147810
It's not about thinking it's literally Hitler. It's about forcing a meme and saying it's why Magic is shit.
>>48147825
She's not literally Hitler.
>>48147825
Again, you're mistaking "having reasons that are understandable [like being fucking traumatized]" with me saying that her actions are somehow justified or good or righteous.
>>48147825
>Also fuck you for doing respond-to-everyone posts
No.
>>48147776
I feel like what you're missing here is that there was a thread specifically made to "improve" the flavor text to the card, which is why it got bandwagon'd so hard, and that custom card is the end result of the accumulated improvements.
>>48147802
Right but do you think you could've put two and two together, werewolf in art is destroying symbol, werewolves don't like collars, Avacyn's Collar is symbol of Avacyn?
>>48147776
>This was not exclusively about Jaya.
In that context, yes it was. Can you even into context? Did you completely ignore the rest of the post you replied to? Fuck's sake, dude.
>>48147882
I feel like what you're missing here is that those threads are stupid.
>>48147832
Well if you we're a complete fucking retard you would think "That's a werewolf, so that thing he's destroying must be a collar, otherwise they wouldn't reference it in the flavor text."
>>48147875
She's literally metaphorically Hitler
>>48147875
Otherwise we agree
>>48147875
Also fuck you
>>48147909
The threads aren't stupid, just the people who post in them.
Speaking of flavor text that could have been good if Wizards had quit while they were ahead
>>48147875
Avacyn's Collar wasn't even in the original Innistrad. It looks obvious in hindsight.
I remember I didn't even know whether Avacyn ever really existed or not. There were theories about the flavor text like this showing that the church was up to something sinister.
>>48147934
2deep4me
>>48147913
She's not literally metaphorically Hitler either.
>>48147934
I don't see the problem. I'm assuming you don't like "and then find more grains", but it doesn't bother me.
>>48147939
True.
Also, why IS Avacyn's Collar the symbol of her church? She was made to stop the Vampires from overfeeding, not anything to do with Werewolves. If anything, those Priests have the "Collar" on their staffs like mancatchers, but those aren't really "collars".
I wish you fucking retards would realize that the gatewatch is helping the magic story not be fragmented and like-tier shit like Alesha trannie
>>48147912
Sure, if you had the sensibility to imagine things that clearly aren't collars as collars. I admit it is clumsily written.
It took me until Ixidron to realize what the weird Onslaught symbol was. It is easy to make fun of all the idiots who don't know the lore, but when you see 8 booster packs worth of lore, it is hard to understand what the fuck is going on.
>>48147939
That and the Dutch Angle doesn't help either. Such a cheap trick.
>Ancient Grudge
>"Werewolves naturally detest collars, so the fact that one should be the symbol of Avacyn's church was singularly misfortunate."
>>48147994
I just think "and then find more grains" explains it too much. Obviously the person would never be able to count the grains he kicked because presumably there was a lot of sand where he kicked it, there was no need for him to say "and then go find more"
>>48147994
You're right; she's just literally worse than Hitler (in universe)
>>48148021
>Dutch Angle
Is it really, though? The landscape looks like it's level and the church looks slanted.
>>48147999
>I wish you fucking retards would realize that the gatewatch is helping the magic story not be fragmented
This is true, and good for the story and company. Having a disjointed story is bad for everyone.
>like-tier shit
What?
>like Alesha trannie
Abloobloo, SJWs are killing your games.
Also, even with the Gatewatch we're still getting stories like Alesha's. That's why we know what Geralf and Gisa are currently up to, and all the stuff about the town of Hanweir.
>>48148057
The priest is off kilter.
>>48148024
Fuck me, first one I laughed at.
>>48148052
No matter how you rephrase it, you're still wrong.
>>48148027
I actually thought it said grains of rice, so you're right. Change it to rice and it's better.
>>48147856
No writing is preferable to bad writing.
>>48148094
>The priest is off kilter.
Not especially so. Look at her head and chest. It's just that her robe are blowing weirdly to the side.
>>48148094
No, fuck you, nothing about the Gatewatch rangers is good.
Everyone on /tg/ shits on this flavour text, but I love it. It shows how powerful this fire elemental is. Even once it's left, the land burns.The use of "continues" implies it's forever. Imagine it, an eternal fire, marking the battlefield where two planeswalkers met and clashed. Even now, in another universe, in another time, the land there continues to burn.
>>48147934
Fake enlightenment shit pisses me off anyways.
>>48148057
Right, and the priest there is just practicing her Micheal Jackson lean.
>>48145368
>NOW I'M MOTIVATED
>>48148134
>Everyone on /tg/ shits on this flavour text
Which /tg/ do you visit because it's not this one
>>48148126
Yes it is. You just don't like it.
I do, so fuck you.
>>48148134
That's remindertext, not flavourtext.
I don't think anyone shits on it, either. It's to point out that it's an effect that happens as part of the ability, not a separate ability.
>>48148142
What?
>>48148135
See >>48148121
>>48148134
>/tg/ shits on it
Not really
Also
>flavor text
That ain't flavor text
>>48148134
Memes aside, I love that ability. Red needs more of it. And a version of Training Grounds.
>>48145953
Hah. Futurama reference. Right, fellow nerds?
>>48145851
Fire is just very cathartic
>>48148200
It's an old joke.
I think it's pretty easy to cherrypick the good bits of lore out of 15 years of cards
mtg's lore has always been kinda shit but it also has its strong moments even in exceptionally shitty sets
>>48148221
And on exceptionally shitty cards. Christ. I'm so glad Zendikar is over, I really hate its mechanics. This card reads:
"pay too much mana for a shitty creature with a downside unless you satisfy this parasitic mechanic."
>>48148221
It is easy to convey a feeling regarding a vignette in a pithy format. It is harder to convey ongoing lore.
>>48148255
See, this is what happens when you print a bear in red. This is what happens!
Maro, this is your only job! What did you do?!
>>48147994
They are made of silver and are the perfect shape to act as mancatchers when dealing with amorous zombies or werewolves.
>>48148255
Red never used to get bears, and it's barely a drawback. Also Ally is no more parasitic than any other tribal mechanic, if this guy was a goblin keyed to other goblins you'd call it a flavor win.
>>48148095
What about people who like the current writing?
>>48148134
It would be interesting if, instead of flavor text, the card said what the creature or spell was doing physically in the game followed by rules text to explain how to do that in game
>>48148303
>What about people who like the current writing?
Why care about the opinions of the mentally retarded?
>>48148303
Kangaroo Court officially sanctioned when?
>>48148142
You only make me more sorry we don't have Mardu legend or walker who lives to STYLE and is STYLISH to survive.
>>48145368
How the fuck is this mythic?
>>48148134
but /tg/ loves that reminder text, the fuck are you talking about
>>48148175
>What?
Reference to Vergil, from the Devil May Cry series (tm).
>>48148312
They don't constantly jerk themselves off about how good old magic was and they have money.
>>48148339
Because it's a red board wipe that can kill planeswalkers
>>48146232
What do you want us to do, congratulate you on your shit taste?
>>48148134
This card's flavor is amazing and I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never heard anyone on /tg/ shit on this. "The land continues to burn" is great and it's not even flavor text.
>>48148312
>People who like things I don't like are retarded
Oh /tg/, never change
>>48147994
It probably doesn't hurt that the collar looks kinda like wings.
>>48148255
>I like complaining about commons that are clearly made for the format that I don't play
This is literally the first set we've ever gotten an unconditional 2/2 for 1R.
In fact, if you ARE playing Allies, Reckless Cohort is better than a lot of them simply because it isn't forced to attack.
>>48148291
Heh.
>>48148292
I know. I said that. But that's not really a collar. Does silver work on Vampires? I think it does on Innistrad, but can't remember.
>>48148312
You're right. Why SHOULD we care about your opinions on the current storylines?
>>48148339
>do a big flashy thing that either costs a lot of mana or has weird additional conditions
>>48148339
Because it's a very powerful effect that can also kill Planeswalkers.
>>48148363
>But that's not really a collar.
Yeah, it is. What do you think a Roman collar is?
>>48148384
Irrelevant when discussing a setting based on gothic horror?
>>48148384
But... it's not.
It's primarily on their staves as a mancatcher, and the one that actually *is* worn around the collar is more of a crucifix at best and a brooch at worst.
>>48146140
0/10 troll harder
>>48148298
No I wouldn't, and you're wrong. Goblins can be printed in damn near any set and will always be goblins. They're only going to print allies on Zendikar.
The flavor of allies is retarded. You cast the creature, of COURSE it's an ally.
It's supposed to signify creatures becoming friends and teaming up despite their race and origin, but since only native Zendikarians are allowed, it ironically contradicts itself.
>>48148407
>gothic horror?
Who the fuck do you think got the Gothic architecture movement started in the first place, anon?
>>48148420
Ally is shorthand for "DnD-style adventurer". The idea is that when you have allies in play, you have a ragtag bunch of spelunkers.
>>48148414
I don't know which part you're saying is trolling, but you're wrong and dumb and I hate you and wish you'd stop making /tg/ worse.
>>48148420
Stop being stupid.
>>48148425
The Goths?
Well. The people who said they were the Holy Roman Empire, when they were none of those three things.
>>48148442
He knows. He's just dumb, and doesn't understand what parasitic mechanics mean, or how commons work, or what Limited formats are.
>>48148425
Ah yes, clearly, the word Gothic in Gothic Horror in this context doesn't refer to shit like Frankenstein and Dracula, but architecture, obviously.
Surely, I should've known what collars looked like in antiquity for understanding this block's most prominent recurring symbol.
>>48148442
And that's cancer. If you wanted to make that mechanic relevant to other formats, have them interact with ANY shared tribe, and then have Zendikar be ally exclusive.
That way, you'd have a human soldier ally be valid in human, soldier or ally decks.
Zendikar is a place where the only two mechanics are tribes that are insular and lands lands lands
>>48148447
>The Goths?
No, "Gothic" was a slur by Italians against the "barbarous" architecture of the HRE. It has nothing to do with actual Goths.
>>48148442
But they can only come from Zendikar?
Man, I didn't know Zendikar had a monopoly on adventurers. And that they're all plane-cist.
>>48146140
>unironically liking Oath of Liliana's flavor text
how does it feel to have objectively shit taste?
>>48148482
>If you wanted to make that mechanic relevant to other formats
You don't necessarily want that. If you have that, you have to worry about printing an Ally that combos with some other Human Soldier like Odric. Master Tactician and makes him define Legendary for the next ten years.
>>48148474
He's talking about the priest collar. The little white thing that priests wear. It's not really the same as Avacyn's Collar, which isn't worn around the throat.
>>48148488
Yes, I said that in the very next line.
>>48148489
You know what? Yes. Only Zendikar can have Allies. Shut the fuck up and stop complaining about a made-for-Limited Common.
>>48148513
How is it not great? It's so fucking smug and I love it. Gideon doesn't even want her to be in the Gatewatch.
>>48148409
It's not a crucifix at all, a "crucifix" is a cross with an image of the Christ on it. I guess the card art for "Avacyn's collar" does look like a large brooch, but there's plenty of art of it being used as a design around the collar of robes, IIRC.
>>48148521
>It's not really the same as Avacyn's Collar, which isn't worn around the throat.
Isn't it? I'm sure I've seen art of it worn like that on some of the art from the first set.
If I'm wrong, then feel free to ignore this specific claim.
>>48148447
Voltaire please go
>>48148474
>clearly, the word Gothic in Gothic Horror in this context doesn't refer to shit like Frankenstein and Dracula, but architecture, obviously.
>false dichotomy
>>48148474
It did actually refer to Gothic architecture, since the settings are usually old Gothic castles or whatever, and the setting is just as much a character in the genre as the people
>>48148513
>Things I don't like are objectively terrible
So this is the face of cancer
>>48148489
They do, actually. DnD's "lets go into ancient ruins and die to random pit traps for the sake of the chance of gold" is far less sensible than you might think and can't be applied to every plane.
Sure, they could theoretically make DnD-plane 2, but they already went through all the material you can get from that.
>>48148482
They actually did something in that regard by making Rally affect all creatures rather than just allies like it used to. But in general, the idea is to make them like ETB slivers. Do you also hate slivers?
>>48148447
Oh, wow.
I assumed you were trying to get a rise out of /tg/ by pretending to like those abortions of flavour text.
But you weren't just pretending to be retarded, huh?
>>48148462
Allies is the definition of parasitic. It literally only works with cards from the same plane. If they hadn't have returned, it would only be the one block. It was for years.
Supposedly the rarity was meant to control complexity, not power level. There's multiple contradicting thoughts, I'm convinced they're just making it up as they go.
Who cares about limited? Not even a real format.
>>48148514
Wow, yeah, can't accidentally make cards for eternal formats.
>>48145856
Sounds more like a dwarf talking, not a squirrel brained goblin.
>>48148564
>>48148560
Not in Innistrad though. The idea that you need to know Roman collars in order to know Gothic Horror because Romans influenced the architecture that became a prominent feature in Gothic Horror (though not really Innistrad) is absurd.
>>48148564
Not him but almost everything in the new set's art has just been generic medieval wooden houses with absolutely nothing in common with gothic architecture.
>>48147994
They used collars on demons when taking them to the helvault.
>>48148587
Rarity clearly is supposed to control lots of things. Otherwise Ancestral Recall would've been a common like the rest of the boons.
>>48148587
>It literally only works with cards from the same plane.
Changelings.
>>48148572
In the entire multiverse the concepts of teamwork and adventure have only occurred on one plane? Well, pack it in boys, I guess white mana was just a lie for the other planes. Red too I suppose. The Boros will be heartbroken.
>>48148349
It's only a board wipe if you've got a card to throw away for every creature on said board.
personal favorite
>>48148587
>can't accidentally make cards for eternal formats.
They already slipped with some Eldrazi stuff, and before that with Delve (Ruse Cruise). I bet R&D is under constant checks now and the moment they make something that even remotely looks playable outside standard, they lose any bonus wage they might have had and lunch breaks for the next 2 weeks.
>>48148587
>Who cares about limited? Not even a real format.
FUCK YOUUUUUU
>>48148482
>>48148514
>You don't necessarily want that.
Just give up. /tg/ is bad at Magic, and he's going to continue to fail to understand why Ally is block exclusive.
>>48148536
I said "more of a crucifix". As in "it is worn in the style of a crucifix". As in, it is a holy symbol dangling from a chain.
>Isn't it? I'm sure I've seen art of it worn like that on some of the art from the first set.
Nope. Odric has it as a brooch, Lunarchs carry it like crosses, it's painted on tabbards and breastplates. It's on the stockades of that one card, but never worn like an actual collar.
>>48148625
Yeah, they used them like mancatchers. Not something you'd call a "collar".
>>48148587
I'm sorry that you only have a slim understanding of how the game works.
>>48148560
Gothic horror, as a genre, is named after the gothic architecture which was the setting for most of the early and notable pieces that defined the field.
>>48148572
They definitely have not gone through all the material they had for an adventure plane. I don't know if you've noticed, but planeswalkers and Eldrazi hijacked the story half way through the first block and never let go.
I don't hate slivers, but ally could have been weaker, more versatile slivers if they weren't afraid of accidentally making something good in eternal formats. As it stands, it's just stupid
>>48148603
>The idea that you need to know Roman collars in order to know Gothic Horror
That's not even close to what I claimed.
Look, the Church of Avacyn (please note: that's what they call it, not just me) bears a significant resemblance to many aspects of the Catholic Church, or Christianity of that era in general. As I already pointed out, they even call themselves "The Church." In this latest set, we even have pop-culture mad Spanish Inquisitors. Their primary holy symbol is worked into what priests wear, the hilts of swords, the heads of maces, statues and iconography, and the tops of tombstones: its intentional resemblance in terms of use to the cross is plain as day.
"Roman collar" is just the name for the collar worn by Christian priests, and it was not just worn in Rome (obviously). Christ.
>>48148634
What the fuck? I clearly said dnd style adventuring parties, not teamwork and friendship.
You fucking retard. Guess what, on Innistrad, people don't pick up their neighbours to go explore caves and ruins to their certain death. They farm, they become priests, they live normal lives.
Literally no other plane can have this dynamic or "job" because it doesn't make sense. Fucking every DM's guide starts with "you have to assume this, this and this, as otherwise it doesn't make sense".
>>48148678
Yeah, I realized after posting it that "why not both?" was actually a pretty stupid thing to say about two things that are actually essentially the same thing.
>>48148687
>The game would be so much better if *I* was in charge. I know better than everyone else!
>>48148699
But the Roman Collar isn't worked into sword hilts, tombstones, mace heads, or staffs. It's just worn around the throat of priests.
The Avacyn's Collar is literally everywhere BUT the throat of priests.
>>48148707
>you have to bend the entire world for adventurers to make sense
SHIT GM DETECTED
>>48148699
But my point is that the symbol looks nothing like a collar. Had they never referred to it as a collar, literally no one would have thought to call it that as it looks nothing like a collar.
I get that if you jump through a billion hoops and stumble on the definition of "collar" that describes all religious iconography, you could call it a collar.
>>48148747
You are so dramatically missing the point, and clearly willfully ignorant, that I honestly hope that poster gives the fuck up instead of trying to get through to you simply because I don't want to see you drool over everything with your incompetence.
>>48148687
Slivers are trash in eternal formats. Allies would have to be ridiculously good slivers to see even remote play in genuine competitive play in eternal.
And I didn't mean in BFZ, I meant the original block. They did quests, they did gear, they did loot, they did curses and caverns and ruins. Everything from here on out would have to be more of the same.
>>48148747
People who play DnD for a long time can't get over the notion that the narrative of a traditional dungeon crawler relies on a lot of implicit assumptions that most settings do not have.
>>48148707
That's because that's how life on Innistrad has to be. I'm sure if they had caves of treasure instead of an entire world of torment they'd be all over it. But you say it's to pander to the DnD crowd, that makes sense I suppose. Wait, aren't there tabletop games with settings similar to Innistrad? You're right, why AREN'T there any allies printed in the Innistrad sets?
Maybe it just doesn't make sense that there's a mechanic for "these creatures are working together now" when it's implied by the normal rules of the game.
>>48148753
Would it have been too much to allow people to discover it from the rest of the set?
Maybe they should have been even more explicit?
>If there's anything a werewolf hates, it's a collar—especially Avacyn's Collar, the symbol of her church, and card #145 in this set, with art by James Paick, showing the collar.
>>48148634
The Boros are always heartbroken. Barring a card or two they're worthless in everything>>48148772
>>48148846
Remember that Ancient Grudge was in INN, not DKA
>>48148789
>People who play DnD for a long time can't get over the notion that the narrative of a traditional dungeon crawler relies on a lot of implicit assumptions that most settings do not have.
There are literally hundreds of reasons why a dungeon would exist, even if it was a world of armies and cartography. You just aren't trying hard enough
>>48145408
But this one is fine.
>>48148822
That's not what allies means. And most of the time, when you try to take the adventuring party out of setting where you have those implicit conceits and into one where they don't, you end up with pure nonsense.
And yes, most tabletop games that try to do a setting like Innistrad end up having a feel of DnD with a light coat of something else. The humans who work together in Innistrad are desperate families in parishes or solitary individuals getting chased by a werewolf through grim backwoods. If you suddenly have four different races with different classes working together for money and whatnot, then you are a party of adventurers, but you suddenly don't have the feel you want.
>>48148907
>>48148846
It wasn't in the set.
>>48148929
I don't need to try, because I'm not DMing. Because I am discussing worldbuilding for fiction that isn't designed to be played as a roleplaying game. My point is that it would make no sense for there to be "allies" or "DnD style adventurers" on Innistrad or Lorwyn or most planes.
>>48148966
So you basically just admit that I'm right. Well, okay I guess. Thanks.
An alternative idea is to have an ability on a creature that only works if there's another creature of a different type, or a certain type. Now it has the "diverse group" feel, but can interact with other cards. It might lose some of the "we DnD now" vibe, but I think it's a worthy sacrifice.
Or they could have printed something that interacted with traps. And then actually print some much needed traps.
>>48148134
>Everyone on /tg/ shits on this flavour text, but I love it.
Are you from Bizarro-/tg/?
>>48146713
Old magic was made by people trying to make a game for themselves which let a lot of personality shine through. New magic is made by a company trying to sell the brand as a multimedia experience so everything has to be deliberate and uniform.
>>48149123
This desu.
I've only been playing since Theros but I've gone over almost every card in the game's history and there's definitely an evolution in the feel of the cards. The old borders while not perfect, did feel more like something that came out of a wizard's spellbook than the new borders.
Likewise the shift from brown to gray for artifacts makes them feel less like artifacts and more like futuristic machines. Not a bad shift for some people, but some of the magic kind of dies.
>>48148134
>>48148166
>>48148175
>>48148176
>>48148344
>>48148351
>>48149069
Am I getting rused here? /tg/ shat all over "The land continues to burn" when it first came out. It was like MaRo had personally called us retards who didn't understand how the card worked.
>>48149123
But this is wrong and bullshit and so biased that it's impossible to believe you think it's true
>>48149164
That person isn't even talking about the borders.
>>48149174
>It was like MaRo had personally called us retards who didn't understand how the card worked.
Considering that without that remindertext, /tg/ would swear up and down that the effect was tied to the creature...?
>>48149064
>An alternative idea is to have an ability on a creature that only works if there's another creature of a different type, or a certain type.
Hm. You might be onto this certain type thing. What if we made a type that all of these cards could fall into? Maybe something like Ally? Sure, it doesn't interact super with older sets, but it doesn't need to. Do you bitch about Rebels? Or Zubera? Or snow mana? Or literally any mechanic designed for block constructed and limited? Theoretically, they could've made Allies feel like Adventurers without a creature type, but then they wouldn't have created a fun tribal deck for the people who like tribal decks.
They printed a bundle of traps and a trap tutor. That's more than most filler flavor mechanics.
>>48149209
Doubtful, the card text is pretty clear. It's not the first time has an effect that lasts longer than said card stays on the battlefield.
I mean, yeah, there would be people who'd say stupid shit, but it's not like all of the Magic playing population of /tg/ would say it. And retards about rules are usually shouted down quite fast.
>>48149174
Spoiler alert, /tg/ is full of hypocrites and most of the people in mtg threads weren't around for that card's original printing. They bitched about Convoke's reminder text though.
>>48149255
Those effects are rare, and /tg/ is bad at magic. People who know the rules are often shouted down.
>>48149183
It's applicable though. The change in borders comes with the change in the way magic is viewed by wizards. You don't think those borders were a conscious choice by the original makers because they resonated with them?
>>48145408
It's red nigga. What did you think the plan was gonna be?
>>48149330
Not nearly as much as you think it would have been. I feel you're all trying to ascribe brilliance to an "old way" that wasn't as thought through as much as you think.
>>48147600
I see what you did there. Underrated post.
>>48149330
I am almost certain that the borders at any point in the game were designed with markettability in mind. You don't combine the idea of baseball trading cards and a game without the intent of making money.
>>48149297
>People who know the rules are often shouted down.
I don't find myself shouted down very much, because I know where to point to the comprehensive rules and such.
But whatever floats your boat and lets you cultivate that useless feeling of superiority, I guess.
>>48149174
If there's one thing I learned from the absolute shitpile that was Oath of the Gatewatch it's that Wizards is completely justified in assuming that most of the people who play Magic are fucking morons. Anus mana was a simple concept that wasn't even technically a rules change yet the amount of stupidity, misunderstandings, and general bitching over it was insane. If a good chunk of the player base doesn't even understand the difference between colorless mana and generic mana than I can't really fault WotC for focusing on the lowest common denominator when deciding what rules and reminder text should go on cards.
>>48149174
Protip: if seven people say the same thing over the course of several hours, it is unlikely that you are being rused. I don't think I was on /tg/ for the initial printing of that card, but since I got here its in almost every thread about flavor texts that people like (even though it's not flavor text).
>>48147872
Bad art was one of the things which made old magic so magical. I mean sure, an eldrazi monstrosity rendered in perfect detail has its charm, but it doesnt feel as forlorn as an amateurish painting of a giant rat in that non-standardized card border. And lets not speak of actual good artists like drew tucker or guay that new magic would never let loose because muh standardized art style.
>>48149720
Hey, Drew Tucker had art as recent as Time Spiral block. It could happen.
>>48149872
Time spiral is like 9 years old and basically considered a big fat mistake by wizards
The fascist art direction is far younger than that
>>48149872
Time Spiral came out in 2006.
>>48148303
>What about people who like the current writing?
The opinions of people that like things I don't like don't matter.
