I think Pathfinder is ok, but I hate vancian casting. Are there reasonable alternatives?
Playing a better game.
>>48133125
Not within Pathfinder.
>>48133125
Quick and dirty you can convert spell slots to mana points equivalent to slot level. Every spell now costs [spell-level] mana points. Done.
Look into Unearthed Arcana for 3.5, should work just fine for pathfinder.
They have two alternatives for spell casting alternates.
Also might want to check /pfg/, where these fucks >>48133242 >>48133309 are shouted down or deleted for being shitheads.
>>48133824
Except then you're dealing with wizards being even more powerful because they can just keep throwing out their most powerful spells as long as they have enough points, unless mana points top out at 18, you're gonna have a bad time.
Fantasy Craft is basically the Pathfinder of Pathfinder, and it uses a pretty good spell point system. It's also better in almost every other way, in my opinion.
Here you go, OP, right at the source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules
Also:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed
>>48133125
What do you hate about Vancian casting?
Most people I talk to about this really just hate Pathfinder magic and blame it on the Vancian boogeyman.
>>48135876
Something tells me I don't want to hear any of your opinions. You reek of cunt.
>>48133125
My group's been enjoying the Spheres of Power system if you're OK with third party alternatives. It's a pretty intuitive build-your-own-magic toolbox and it has a mana system.
>>48133125
The D20 version of Call of Cthulhu had an interesting approach. Casting spells caused temporary attribute damage. They listed points for each spell, but it basically worked out to (spell level / 2) + 1 rounded up. This basically represented the character being fatigued by the mental and physical effort of channeling the spells. So mage armor would cost 2 WIS, magic missile would be 2 CON, etc. They would reset after the character got some rest, but it meant going over board on magic meant you started taking penalties.
>>48133125
Strip out all of Paizo's classes, use the ones from Path of War and Ultimate Psionics instead.
>>48133125
Depends on what you hate about it. Sorcerors ignore the rest and study rule. If you dislike how spells becoming deprecated as you level, create new spells with your DM.
>>48135921
Heavens' forfend you should have your opinion challenged on an Ethiopian competitive-eating imageboard.
Heavens' forfend, anon.
>>48133125
Spheres of Power is okay, and requires less fixin than vancian.
DSP Psionics is also bretty gud
>>48133125
Try using Psionics and just refluff them as mages.
Alternatively, >>48133824 if you're okay with even worse balance and/or everyone is playing a caster.
Fantasy age has a mana system instead of vancian magic, but is fairly different to PF.
>>48134500
Surely, you don't mean to imply that Fantasy Craft was blindly copied from Pathfinder by some people who barely understood the system, who then introduced some "fixes" to the game that created more problems than they solved.
>>48133125
Fuck you cunt I have to deal with hordes of these demonspawn every fall and winter.
You just made me look up on my ceiling because i've ahd them drop on me before. Suck a garbage can.
Spheres of Power, DSP Psionics.
Also, you should be using DSP Path of War instead of the regular nonmagical classes.
Or just use DnD4e, since by that point you're halfway there anyway.
>>48140006
But they are nice. They eat flies, roaches, bloodsucking vermin
>>48134500
While I prefer Fantasy Craft myself, you're missing a critical point: Fantasy Craft lacks a shitton of content for casters.
The best thing OP could do is try out Spheres of Power. I've introduced it in my game and I'm not dissapointed: Casters feels a lot more flexible, and yet, a lot more balanced, if they're still generally more powerful than other classes.
>>48139987
And also, you're retarded. Fantasy Craft understands the d20 system much more than Paizo does.
First fuck off with it being copied from PF. PF is, on itself, a 3.5 clone that...well. Everything that you said about FC could be applied to PF and it's relationship to 3.5. Hell I'd fully agree if that's what you stated.
Anyway, what FC did better than PF:
Armor as DR. Pathfinder's armor as DR was utterly broken, as no weapons had inherent AP, making heavy armor godlike against normal enemies, and utterly useless against big fucking ones.
In this regard FC did better, as it give each weapon a purpose, other than a set damage and a critical range. This ties up with the other thing they did better: Feats
This is subject to opinion, but I like feats more on FC: They feel like you're actually buying styles, rather than getting passive bonuses. There's also no feat tax, as they're much more straightforward. Although I feel that feats specialized in weapons lock you on a single category, and that they should have been an extension of proficiencies rather than feats. Granted, most bonuses work with other weapons, too. Oh, and they maneuvers actually useful and not "buy 3 feats to not provoke an AoO with a single maneuver".
Then there's classes. Archetypes are proof of Paizo failing to make multiclassing any interest of useful. This might be a good thing, depending on your opinion, but I personally liked multiclassing. In FC, classes are arranged in a way that promotes multiclassing to an extend, getting particularly powerful abilities at levels 6 and 14 for base classes, allowing you to mix those, or not miss as much cool stuff if you get the "prestige classes" with 10 or 5 levels. Also there's non-combat classes that actually make everything better for the group. Talents are also damn great to avoid having generic humans, and backgrounds give you stuff so the first levels are not dull.
cont.
>>48141767
Then there's stuff you might disagree with or find overcomplex, such as reputation, panache, and everything that doesn't really revolve around combat, specially if you're running a dungeon crawler. Or you might feel standard/special enemies are a distinction you don't like. Or that wounds make bigger enemies a bit easy with a bit of luck. Or that DM action points are retarded. Or that the object limit is retarded. Ad infinitum. Those are mechanics that tend to differ from the generic d20 ones, so it's easy to just not like them, and that's fine.
Or that spellcasters have a damn fucking lack of content and Spellbound isn't getting printed anytime soon, and you'd be right. It kinda compensates with being easy as fuck to homebrew.
Point is. Most “problems” FC has are either related with the mentioned lack of content and support, or that it's kinda meant to be played on different ways than 3.5/PF, and generally, not with such a high power level, or so it seems to me. But they understood the system they were working with, and fixed many, many flaws on it, while Paizo allowed their personal bias to fix something, then undo it a few pages later (Fighters get more feats, yet have extra feat taxes)
They might not have a better game, depending on your criteria, but they're definitely better designers.
>>48141767
>>48141809
I think you ignored the first seven words of my post.
>>48141919
Not really, Poe's Law anon.
>>48142127
But they change the entire meaning of the post.
They mean that I accuse the post I replied to of saying that stuff.
>>48142281
W-well t-then my rant is not wasted right?
>>48142290
If you are >>48134500, your entire rant is wasted.
Otherwise... eh.
>>48141809
>They might not have a better game, depending on your criteria, but they're definitely better designers.
This is the worse closing statement to a rant I have seen. Pathfinder is a really bad game at its core, and their staff has been proven incompetent but prolific leaving just enough interesting things to pick and choose around a veritable wasteland of traps, garbage, and broken bullshit.
I have read but not played FC, but if you actually are a fan of the system saying it's about the same level as a game whose core rules are panned by its fans and whose devs seem desperate to take out back and shoot in the head with errata why would anyone ever play FC?
>>48142753
In his dubious defense, those two posts were a violent kneejerk reaction to an imagined slight, so it's not surprising that his arguments fall flat on their face.
>>48142753
Anon what I meant is that "better game" is subjective, and you might actually like PF more due to your taste, but FC is objectively better designed.
>>48138517
Heaven forfend you think your posts are worth reading. Just stop wasting everyone's time and never post again.
Spheres of Power
Better yet, don't play D&D
>>48143482
>not playing a mix of RPG systems
>thinking it has to be all D&D or no D&D
>>48133125
There are plenty of D&D approved spell point variants that you can use. Just hunt around.
>>48134199
OP is literally trying to do just that, you memegargling hobgoblin.
>Inb4 assblasted
I am the assblastedest.
>>48133125
Spheres of Power works pretty well, though there may be some balance issues between classes. I just replace the casting mechanic of existing classes and treat paladins/rangers/bloodrages as Low Casters with no -3 on their casting level.
Or! You can use the Path of War classes for anime style 'martials' that cast spells by hitting things and recharge them by taunting enemies or scoring crits.
>>48133125
Psionics
>>48138755
Mana system combined with everybody playing a caster or a half-caster is pretty fun.
>>48140059
PF with only DSP material is legit.
>>48134245
more powerful spells = more mana
very limited mana pool , but regenerates over time = no powerful spell spam , but allowing a steady usage
there , fixed it. mana is pretty much the best base system for spells
>>48135876
treating magic like bullets in a gun comes with an own set of problems. you either have too much of a single spell and can spam them , or POOF cant do that anymore , no ammo. It annihilates the possibility to focus your energy on that one spell you need at the moment.
like having 8 loads of thunder and 20 loads of fire.
you miss your shots and even though your "thunder" spell is pretty much your only chance in this certain fight, you cannot focus your energy on making more , resulting in a huge "manapool" with more than 2/3 of it being currently useless. shit like this doesnt happen with mana systems.
Mana is a good alternative because it also allows some kind of conservation of energy, which in turn works wonders when balancing stuff
>>48133125
Pathfinder has great alternative magic systems. They are from third party publishers tho. Ultimate Psionics introduces power points mechanics: you have a limited number of power points that you can spend on any power you want to manifest. Stronger powers cost more pp. Weaker power can be augmented by spending additional pp. Akashyc Mysteries adds veilshaping. It is a form of primal magic that lets you form special veils and bind them to your soul. Effects provided by the veils are generally at will and sometimes have or maximum uses per day. Pact Magic books let's you bind spirits and gain powers through them. It looks a lot like Akashyc veils but with grim default fluff and some mechanical differences. Truenaming (currently in playtest) let's you change the world by using true speech. All your spell's are at will, but they depend on a ceck you make when you cast them. The better the result, the stronger the power's effect. If you use the same power several turns in a row, the check gets harder.
There is also a Spheres of Power supplement. People say it is great, but I never had a chance to use it.
>>48151413
But that's a Pathfinder implementation problem. If you look at 5e those are no longer issues, if you look at RuneQuest Thiesm it's not a problem.
5e lets you prepare a pool of spells, and a lot of utility spells don't use slots. You can also regain lost spell slots. It's a super easy pathfinder conversion and a great rebalance of magic. You get less spells per day, but can recharge bonus spells slots quickly, get those key utility spells in with extra time, and get a little more flexibility in prepared spells.
RuneQuest limits how much you can prepare at once, but preparing new spells takes only a small amount of time. Like you can only prepare a total spell level of all spells = 1+ caster level.
