Rank them from best to worst.
Nahiri>>>>>>Tamiyo>>The rest>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liliana
Liliana > Nahiri > Tamiyo > Sorin > Jace > Arlinn
>>48131677
Sorin > Jace > Nahiri > Arlinn > Lili > Tamio
>>48131738
Literally the worst MtG related opinion I have read all day.
>>48131677
Nahiri is playable. Arlinn is fringe playable. Jace and Sorin are shit.
Not sure about those other two.
>>48131677
Nahiri >> Tamiyo > Sorin > Liliana* = Arlinn > Jace
Nahiri's proven herself to be a strong PWer in both Standard and Modern thanks to the card draw and quick kills available thanks to her ult.
Tamiyo I suspect to be pretty solid in Bant decks for the rest of DTK - SOI standard, but will probably fall off if there's no 3-color support available in Kalidash. She'll probably see play in EDH, I can't see her showing up in Modern though unless a new Bant deck shows up that breaks the meta (SFM getting unbanned would help with that).
Sorin's a strong finisher in BW tokens, midrange, and control decks, and probably will be the haymaker for any sort of Superfriends deck in Standard. But the high CMC and lack of ramp in those colors limits the card's potential.
Arlinn and Liliana will probably see fringe play, though I think Liliana has a better chance to move up thanks to the 3 CMC and being mono-color, which means she can slot in easier in potential future decks. Arlinn's biggest drawback is that she is used to stabilize a game, not win it, and GR wants cards that can win games by themselves.
Jace just costs too much for how underwhelming his skills cost compared to everyone else on this list. If he was 4 CMC then he'd probably be battling for 4th between Arlinn and Liliana.
>>48131738
>this awful opinion
Objectively wrong.
>>48131723
Pretty bad opinion there anon.
>>48131696
Kind of on the right track, but still pretty bad.
>>48132597
This guy gets it, though I like Arlinn a little better than Liliana, but that's just nit-picking.
>>48131677
Sorin at least Excels in EDH since he can do some massive ass damage there, and that last ability gets extremely gross, especially in the colors hes in.
Nahiri is the standard and modern champ of the list here no question, so shes clearly #1
Jace is complete shit, nobody plays him and hes way the fuck too overcosted for what he does.
Arlinn is a shitty flipwalker and i've never liked flipwalkers, in addition to that this shitty flipwalker can't win you the game with the colors that need you to win the game at that moment in those colors; the reason shes better then jace is shes at least somewhat playable i'd argue in jund since she gives them additional answers to save your own ass since jund sometimes drags ass instead of typical R/G shenanigans.
I like lilianas card a bit but the problem is that theres no decks that would play her other then zombie tribal and the spot she would take in that she fights with the lord position, which could be ass.
so same position as arlinn, fringe playable at best, the difference being liliana can also be usable in EDH, unlike Arlinn, since that extra mana actually matters a bit in regards to that and she doesn't have flipwalker retardation that wastes turns.
Tamiyo is stronk as fuck by herself but unlike everyone else i'm not really feeling it as much. the problem is Bant is ass as a color combination and i doubt its gonna get better any time soon, in addition any deck thats gonna play her has stuff in the mana position to fight her with, so that cuts down where she could ultimately be, she might do somewhat ok in standard for all of the half a month everything works as needed though then kaladesh will happen and literally 3 color support will die a horrible painful sad death.
overall with my analysis it ultimately looks like this:
Nahiri>Sorin>>>>Tamiyo>Lililana>Arlinn>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shit>>Standard>>>>>Aggrobabbies>>>>>WotC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jace
>>48132597
>Arlinn's biggest drawback is that she is used to stabilize a game, not win it, and GR wants cards that can win games by themselves.
She can. You get a wolf when you cast her and then the anthem effect on her +1 gives your entire board the ability to throw more and more damage into the opponent's face each turn. I rate Arlinn at a solid #2 right behind Nahiri and before Sorin.
Y'all niggas underestimating the power of repeatable removal for 3 mana.
>>48133626
But Arlinn and that Ulrich legendary Werewolf are going to be pretty spicy in EDH/standard, which is why I slot her over Liliana. From an EDH perspective, I can't really see using the Liliana outside of her ultimate in a zombie tribal. Her +1 is negligible spot removal, and her -2 is fuck awful if you want to reanimate things, outside of tasigr, but then her double devotion makes her more iffy early turn in a 3 colour deck.
Arlinn on the other hand, is Xenagos' wet dream. In a RG/RGu deck, I run Arlinn pretty effectively, particularly if you can get it out early. While she's not a game winner, as a 4 mana utility card in Gruul, she's exactly what I was looking for. Burn on a body, buff giving vigilance, buff giving trample, and tap for destruction. That's awesome. The only draw back is that you can't use abilities on both sides of the card, but when it flips it drops a free token, so it kind of makes up for it.
>>48133773
In standard, it's going to be serious. In modern, less so. In EDH/other formats, it honestly wont matter.
>Jace
Unplayable garbage.
>Taimayo
Colors makes it unplayable except in very specific decks.
>Arlinn
Better than most give it credit for. A flip walker that can flip back and forth for 5 total abilities is pretty useful in a color combination that lacks utility.
>Liliana
Same as Jace, but this is speculation here.
>Sorin
Great card for B/W decks to give that extra life gain and sack your opponent for mega damage in a high cmc deck.
>Nahiri
Modern is where she shines, standard not as much. Half of her color identity fails to benefit from her +2 but her -2 does add some great utility to the field.
Sorin>Nahiri>Arlinn>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liliana/Taimayo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jace
>>48133829
>Her +1 is negligible spot removal
You gotta see the big picture, Standard is all about tokens right now.
>>48133930
Like I said in my post, it's going to be a big deal in standard because it's generally a weaker format, but everything I can think of that's 1 toughness generally has evasion or is assumed to get nuked as soon as it comes out. It might see fringe modern play, and very specific casual edh play, but I seriously doubt it's going to be competitive.
>>48134053
Liliana shits all over Infect, Zoo and other creature based shit in modern tho
>>48134176
Yes, but that's contingent on many things, the most important of which are dropping it onto the battlefield before an Ichor Claw Myr drops an unforgivable amount of infect counters on you. Those decks are glass cannons and assume their stuff is going to die anyways. If you don't top deck your liliana in a monoblack deck within the first 3 turns, it's basically nothing against those decks.
>>48134267
Bruh if you can't remove their 1/1s with a black deck before they fuck your shit up you shouldn't be playing magic.
>>48134360
>Bruh
Oh I'm speaking with a child.
Little one, we were talking about utility from a planeswalker in the context of modern. There are tons of different options for -1/-1 removal on the cheap. Why would you run this planeswalker over one of those? I'm positive there are 1B -1/-1 sorcery cards that hit every creature at COMMON. The answer is you wouldn't. It's nowhere near as good as people think, and it's extremely niche, forever standard and nothing.
>>48134360
Same goes for red (elektrickery).
>>48134407
>Oh I'm speaking with a child
Bruh that's no argument.
>Why would you run this planeswalker over one of those?
Value bruh, do you know what that means? Some damn good card advantage. If they don't remove her they have to waste all their pump spells to protect their creatures on your turn and that ruins the whole Infect strategy.
Your 1B removal on the other hand is still just one card. If they don't overextend they can play around it. Not so much with a walker removing their creatures every turn.
>>48131723
This is literally the worst opinion here. Liliana is worthless outside of mono B zombies, and even that deck is shit. Also
>Taimayo, a triple color planeswalker is third
>Arlinn, a proven utility planeswalker is last
>Fucking Sorin, the game winner is 4th
>>48134509
Wow, that /tg/ is bad at magic meme is real.
You don't know what you're talking about, and the time it would take me to prove you wrong would be better spent on masturbating and cleaning than educating a moron.
To put it simply, there are better options for every single one of those effects in Modern, and slapping them half-assed on some shitty neo-walker with BB devotion ensures that it will only be viable in standard mono-black zombies.
Even the awful Liliana is better.
>>48134630
>sperging that hard and still being wrong
Does that Liliana look like repeatable removal for 3 mana to you?
>comes a turn later, which is already a huge thing in modern
>have to wait yet another turn to use the removal if you want her to survive
>dies if you want to use the removal on the same turn
>does the exact same thing against small creatures
>Wow, that /tg/ is bad at magic meme is real.
No shit, bruh.
>>48134733
If I want repeatable removal that can kill X/1's in modern, then I'd play darkblast. It's instant and can potentially kill X/2's
ITT NON COMPETITIVE PLAYERS GIVING "OPINIONS" ON THE COMPETITIVE VALUE OF SOI/EM PLANESWALKERS
Don't fucking make me laugh.
If it's worth anything I won 2 GPs and topped 8 on 1 PT and 16 on other 3.
From my view based on the current Standard decks:
>1. Sorin
Sorin proved to be amazing for B/W control, and pretty much nearly mandatory for any B/X deck out there, by giving you value, having attached removal and starting with a huge loyalty makes him a well round and useful tool, he and Gideon are what Planeswalkers aspire to be.
>2. Tamiyo
Tamiyo on paper sounds awesome, all her abilities are useful, it's an amazing tempo tool and her ultimate pretty much wins you the game on the spot.
I can't believe when literal retards on /tg/ says she's bad, when 2 of the best decks on this standard (GW tokens, Bant Humans) can run her without problems. In fact future will tell if GW tokens evolve into Bant Tokens in order to run her alongside Reflector Mage and negation spells, making the deck even more tempo oppresive.
>3. Nahiri
Nahiri is amazing on Modern, on Standard her potential can't be fully used, but she is the sole reason that Naya variants are still the map taking t8 spots in some big tournaments.
Starting huge, giving and value removal options, and a pretty good ultimates make her relatively similar to Sorin, but her colors simply hold her back in this format.
>4. Arlinn, Lilliana
These 2 walkers are pretty much on the same room, effective on niche deck, however those decks are just not competitive enough. Zombie and Wolf tribes are alright/awful depending on who you ask, and Lili is just not good enough at defending herself like Nissa or Arlinn, and with such low starting loyalty she will be used once for her -2 and then any further efforts to keep her alive can even lose you the game since she is simply not worth it.
>5. Jace
His abilities just don't generate enough return for 6 mana at any stage of the game, making him a bad investment.
>>48134733
>he actually took the time to explain why awful liliana is shitty
>but totally missed why it's specifically better in modern, given the context of utility
Jesus, how new to magic are you? Give your head a soak. That new Liliana isn't even comparable to the old expensive one, that is also 3 mana, and you actually needed to make an argument as to why it's better than the second worst planeswalker in magic.
Did you read the part where the awful Liliana can also buff a dude +4/+4 or -4/-4 in mono black the turn it comes out? No, of course you didn't because your articulate post was more concerned about "repeatable removal" when removal is already established to be dirt cheap and plentiful in black.
Your an idiot, and should feel bad.
>>48134509
Yeah, that sorcery speed removal sure is going to help against inkmoth nexus. Really I can't imagine Jund NOT playing 4 of these bad boys in the sideboard to take down the infect matchup.
>>48134850
Nothing is stopping you from playing it, Darkblast is actually a decent choice unlike your previous suggestion.
But Liliana does have advantages over it and even some synergy between her minus and dredge.
>>48134858
I agree with most things, but Sorin is ranked a little highly, in my opinion as an EDH player.
Sure, I put in basically every BWx deck I possibly can because he's awesome, but B and W struggle from a lack of ramp, and I find him to be a little costly. He's worth it, but in most games I find he never sees the board to cause any real damage, or if he does, someone instantly kills him and life goes on.
Tamiyo, on the other hand, has too complicated devotion. It would be nice to cast her quickly, but 3 colour devotion by turn 4 requires a lot of pieces to assemble just right in order to use her, and dropping her later leaves her vulnerable to alot of removal. Then again, proliferate and Vorel are in her colours, so that's a thing. Is she better than Nahiri? I'm not too sure about that until I see some proof.
>>48134858
>Don't fucking make me laugh.
>If it's worth anything I won 2 GPs and topped 8 on 1 PT and 16 on other 3.
Nobody cares about what you didn't achieve. Your opinions are shit to everyone but you.
>>48134914
>Did you read the part where the awful Liliana can also buff a dude +4/+4 or -4/-4 in mono black the turn it comes out?
You mean the irrelevant part, all things considered?
>your articulate post was more concerned about "repeatable removal" when removal is already established to be dirt cheap and plentiful in black.
I'd be surprised if you even know what card advantage is.
>>48134961
>one creature out of 5
Oh yeah, I forgot sorcery speed made LotV's minus useless against Infect because they play a manland.
>all these people underrating Lili
People thought Jace's -2/-0 was garbage as well and he turned into a standard allstar. She is at least better than Jace Unraveler and maybe Kord.
>>48135018
Tamiyo is pretty much a Turn 5 or 6 walker like Chandra, Flamecaller.
You don't want to cast her on Turn 4, because you will be casting Gideon/Company on that turn ideally, but she gives a really good tempo edge to your board after those cards resolve.
By turn 5/6 your chances of having blue or Oath of Nissa on play are very high depending on how you assembled your mana base.
I think Nahiri is better by miles on other formats, but on this current Standard Nahiri is held off because Red is just in such a bad spot, making her worse by context.
The decks that can use Tamiyo on Standard are really good, the top of the chain, the decks that can use Nahiri are below those.
>>48135067
>it's another strawman ad-hominem post-off with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about
Classic signs of ass devastation. Go back to your containment board.
>>48135155
Nah. Kord can create blockers and lightning bolt stuff on alternating turns until she needs to plus again. But I agree that she is better than Jace, the do nothing.
>>48135155
>starting at 3 is so much worse than starting at 5
>recasting a spell so much better than just returning a creature to your hand
she is clearly much worse than baby jace
>>48135179
>describing his own post
>>48135155
No one is saying she's worse than jace. One guy is pretending to talk about how Liliana will stop Zoo and Infect in modern while everyone else is nodding politely in the context that it's a standard only card in a very particular deck.
>>48135155
>standard allstar
Setting the bar pretty low there m8.
>>48135210
>starting at 3 is so much worse than starting at 5
Maybe not in your kitchen table.
>>48135215
>I know you are but what am I.
Really? I don't even think you know what those words mean, bruh.
>>48134630
differnt anon here, terrible shit liliana is a god send in EDH, she makes mono black good because shes a mana ramp engine, which is amazing there.
>>48135250
Oh boy here comes another reaction image, I lost this discussion after all.
Well played, sir.
Regarding Liliana, what creature(s) can she send to the graveyard and what could she return that would be game breaker?
From that answer you can tell if she is useless or a top tier card on this format.
>>48135381
what format?
>>48135450
Standard.
I think Lilli will wind up being a fine replacement in budget jund builds. Though, why you'd build budget jund is beyond me.
>>48135450
Standard, she is not usable on any Modern she is far worse than Veil and any other format is without trying to troll a meme format.
>>48135488
but modern is the meme format
>>48135381
For comp decks? Not much
But this shit will be annoying as fuck in Zombie tribal if you run anything not named G/W tokens.
Buy back Fleshbag Marauder or something just as annoying.
>>48135548
Modern at least gets GPs and is played everywhere.
Pauper, commander, legacy, etc. none but die hard fans play that, nearly non-existant premier support and Wizards wishes those formats never existed to being with.
>>48135666
Yeah Wizards' once a year card support really shows how much the hate commander.
Lili will have place as a utility piece for Aristocrats. Buy back a dead piece like a husk or cuttthroat.
Maybe as a one or two of in BUG midrange as well.
>>48131677
Milfwolf > everyone else is equally shit.
>>48134407
I think the better question is why should I play a sorcery when I could play a planeswalker? Planeswalkers are inherent card advantage.
>>48135666
yes but modern is magic : the banning and gets all the bad archetypes
>>48134961
Too bad there aren't other playable cards like Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, or Terminate that you could also be playing as instant speed removal.
>>48134630
Bro m13 Lili is top 5 worst planeswalkers of all time. You need to git gud
>people ranking Nahiri the highest because she's "good" in Modern
>>48135873
There's a whole tier 1 deck that revolves around her in Modern.
If standard wasn't so gimped she would be as good there too.
>>48131677
Is there going to be a third walker in Eldritch?
>>48135939
Nahiri Jeskai is a meme deck that will quickly fall in popularity when people start expecting it and building against it
Having one gimmicky win-condition is not a good deck make
>>48135945
6 walkers in one block is already a fucking lot.
>>48136028
I was just hoping for another Tibalt is all
>>48136052
Never ever.
Enjoy Jace #84
Nahiri the all star that created a whole new deck > Tamiyo "her ult is fucking Omniscience + CotS", Field Researcher > Sorin and his 20 vampires > Liliana, the Bob Killer > Arlinn should have just been a commander card > Jace "worse than baby Jace" Jace
>>48134176
>Zoo
Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, Experiment One, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Knight of the Reliquary, Qasali Pridemage, Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, Flinthoof Boar, Fleecemane Lion, Wooly Thoctar, Jund Hackblade, and I could keep fucking going but shit dude.
>other creature based shit
Jund and Junk have similar book series worth of creatures that aren't touched by it, meanwhile their actual Liliana has fucked both your hand and board.
Let's not even talk about Suicide Zoo because LLH doesn't even touch it.
>Infect
You're still going to fucking die to Inkmoth.
>>48136392
>x/1s die
>2/2s become 0/1 chump blockers
>Kird Ape/Wild Nacatl become 0/2 and 1/2 chump blockers
>Goyf loses to your Goyf
>anything bigger eats your spot removal
>all the while actual Liliana was a little more than an expensive Diabolic Edict before she found the opponent's bolt
It's over, no Inkmoth can save you now.
>>48136052
he's gonna be in kaladesh, he'll be wreaking havoc with Ob.
>>48136891
>any of that bullshit
>not realizing that Zoo played one of those turn one, two turn two, and three turn three when you finally played Liliana
>preventing 2 of 12 damage for 3 mana
>>48137773
Maro already confirmed Tibalt will return.
do you guys remember when every fucking single one of you was calling Nahiri garbage?
>>48138001
Not him, but SOURCE
He's totally getting the Worldwaker treatmentand I will love every bit of it
>>48137987
>builds deck with 40 Lilianas and 20 lands
>doesn't do anything for three turns
>blames the walker
I guess Liliana of the Veil is also useless in that case, retard.
>>48138339
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/133592245968/ifwhen-new-tibalt#notes
>>48138446
In that case LotV was a 3 mana removal spell that also fogged a creature.
In the scenario where you've got the same usual Jund hand of solid fucking removal and a goyf LotV outperforms LLH by you know, actually removing a creature.
>>48135715
I think Heretical Healer is better in that deck. Maybe after rotation.
>>48138498
Wow, for once MaRo is not a faggot. About time.
>>48138581
She is. I'm just trying to think of how she'll fit into any deck.
And Aristocrats is dead post rotation anyways because no more CoCo or Husk.
>>48138446
Why are you trying to argue that this new Liliana is good? Everyone seems to think it's awful, and you're convinced it's amazing. Go, run it. Prove us wrong. We'll be laughing while you durdle and complain about dying to an inkmoth nexus.
>>48138554
>In that case LotV was a 3 mana removal spell that also fogged a creature.
And then they proceeded to kill you just the same. Great point made.
>LotV outperforms LLH by you know, actually removing a creature
That depends on the creatures your opponent has. But the fact remains that for you to kill one of them with LotV on turn 3 means letting her die, while the same doesn't happen with this one.
>>48138609
>card literally kills all of Infect's creatures except that one
>just like LotV
Look, another retard playing a deck with only Lilianas and lands.
>>48135988
>Having one gimmicky win-condition is not a good deck make
Sneak and tell is legit deck in legacy.
>>48138609
>killing infect at with black sorcery removal without an edict
>the deck that runs combat tricks out the ass such as vines of vastwood and apostle's blessing
They don't even need to waste a pump spell to save their shit. New Liliana is bad and you should feel bad.I thought Eslepth Sun's Champion was amazing when it was spoiled and thought it would rape standard while everyone told me it was shit and it was overcosted garbage
>>48131677
Vintage: None. Possibly Nahiri is the only one to consider play and that's a very slim chance given that Dack Fayden is 1 cmc less and has almost the same abilities.
Legacy: Dunno, don't think walkers above cmc 4 get played in the format? I am not familiar with Legacy much.
Modern: Nahiri, Arlinn and Lili should see some play. Nahiri has already shown some results.
Standard: Jace, Nahiri and Sorin are top played at the moment. Arlinn has absolutely no home and undetermined as of yet for Tamiyo and Lili. Given the prevalence of Bant Company I see no reason why Tamiyo would not get slotted into the deck. Lili should see some play as well but i'm not sure of the right shell for her.
>>48131677
Nahiri > Sorin > Liliana > Tamiyo > Arlinn > Jace
No other answer
>>48138702
>this ass blasted faggot came back 5 hours later because he thought I was in bed
Why are you still here? Get some sleep, it's been proven you don't know what you're talking about, why do you insist on being loud-wrong?
>>48139266
>Tamiyo worse than Lili
What?
>>48139323
I already did some testing and casting Tamiyo will be a pain. Llilly has tons of cards that work well with her and make her great in t2.
It's more of a synergy thing for me rather than rating cards in a void.
>>48139349
I think your ratings are wrong and your system is nonsense because it's based on arbitrary subjective bullshit.
That is all.
>>48139221
>Jace
>Top played in standard
Flip Jace maybe, but I haven't seen a single deck with Unraveler of Secrets in it.
>>48139365
Well I do understand it.
I rated it based on testing where Liliana turned out to play great with Collective Brutality for example.
>>48139103
>let me teach you about a deck I never played with
Infect wants to use those combat tricks on their turn and all at once in order to kill you, not to trade with your walker's plus ability. And as I said before, making your opponent cast them on your turn to protect his creatures is one of the ways to win against Infect.
Good job comparing a card that costs 6 mana with one that costs 3 though.
>>48139383
He shows up in Esper Dragons lists from time to time. Probably shouldn't have phrased it as "top played" but he does see play. He's like Ob Nixilis, they do pretty much the exact same thing but always randomly shows up in control lists with those colours in them.
>>48133626
Sorin looks like he might be good in EDH, but he doesn't belong in the format outside of superfriends.
Six mana is huge and unwieldy.
>>48139386
>Collective Brutality
Oh, you're talking about standard. Well, ya sure, I don't particularly care about that format as it is.
>>48139435
Well duh, every other besides nahiri is shit for modern not to mention legacy or vintage.
>>48139425
Nixilis probably sees more play just because the BW control deck is much more popular.
>>48139497
I was thinking in the context of commander things would look like this:
Tayimo => Nahri > Sorin POWER GAP > Arlin > Liliana > Jace
>>48139500
Well that's because in B/W control you really really need card draw hence the Ob Nix. You got all these removal spells and all these virtual card advantage(Secure the Wastes) you can end up out of gas sometimes when facing blue based control decks and then there's times where Read the Bones will kill you. Little easier to manage with SOI Sorin these days but still not the big life swing that Sorin Solemn Visitor was after an end step Secure the Wastes.
>>48139628
You're probably right about going up against blue control decks, but my meta is nothing but various flavors of humans with some ramp decks sprinkled in. I am the only consistent "control" player there, but the meta is so fucking degenerate with human hand vomiting I basically have to run B/W midrange just to see turn 5.
>>48139673
Just gotta survive to hit that turn 4 Languish or Turn 5 Planar Outburst eh? Ramp is generally not a good matchup for the B/W deck so I know the pain, Worldbreaker is absolutely disgusting. My meta is not too bad on deck diversity but when it's time to play GP Trial it's all GW Tokens, Bant CoCo, Seasons Past, RG Ramp or some other variant of Sylvan Advocate.dec
Still rocking the Esper Pact though and managing to squeeze top 8 a few times in a field of 20-30. But now stopped playing Standard until I see full EMN spoilers so I can prepare.
>>48135381
>what creature(s) can she send to the graveyard and what could she return that would be game breaker?
She can return to your hand literally any creature from your grave. She is actually quite good.
>>48139532
Liliana recurs a creature from your graveyard. She is quite much better than Arlinn, and much closer to Sorin.
