How does one even build a decent necromancer in 5e? it seems so under powered when compared to 3e.
>>48106692
>It seems so under powered when compared to 3e.
Welcome to magic in general in 5e, and thank Pelor for it. All the magic classes are weaker now, and this a good thing because they no longer completely overshadow everyone else by level 6.
As far as building a decent necromancer... meh, honestly you're better off just going for conjuration and making deals with demons and the like. Warlocks in particular tend to lend themselves to this well.
>>48106808
>demon deals
this kind of interests me, what benefits could this lend me?
>>48106808
You are completely and overwhelmingly incorrect, as 6th-level is precisely when necromancers attain a tremendous power upgrade.
D&D 5e's "bounded accuracy" makes a swarm of generic human skeletons with shortbows exceedingly vicious, particularly if the mob rules from the Dungeon Master's Guide (which occupy an odd space between "default rule" and "optional rule") are in play.
This is all the more the case for a 6th-level necromancer wizard, who can add their proficiency bonus to their created undead creatures' weapon damage rolls. I would go so far as to call a 9th-level necromancer who uses their 3rd-, 4th-, and 5th-level spell slots on nothing but maintaining a force of 22 skeletons to be overpowered combat-wise.
>>48106821
If you looked at the UA for black magic, summoning demons requires more on your part for a better reward. It requires a vial of blood from a humanoid that has died in the last 24 hours, and making a safe zone with it. The reason being, is that demons you summon are not controlled by you. So instead of having to worry about losing concentration so they don't disappear, you have to worry about them going for you.
>>48106847
How did you get the number 22? Undead Thrall only gives 1 extra summoning per cast, not per target. A level 3 cast gets you 2 per spell slot, a level 4 gets you 3 per spell slot, and a level 5 gets you 5 per spell slot.
Using a level 4 and a level 5 spell slots grants you the same thing as level 3 conjure animals. 8 1/4 CR creatures, only all day except for an hour.
Necromancy's only chance of getting competitive with the effectiveness of other archetypes is when they get level 7 spells and start finger or deathing everything, giving them a permanent zombie for each kill.
>>48106951
>How did you get the number 22?
It turns out that I am incorrect myself.
A 9th-level necromancer has three 3rd-level spells, three 4th-level spells, and two 5th-level spells (with Arcane Recovery) per day.
Thanks to Undead Thralls, each 3rd-level casting nets two skeletons, each 4th-level casting grants four skeletons, and each 5th-level casting confers six skeletons.
3 * 2 = 6
3 * 4 = 12
2 * 6 = 12
This makes for a total of 30 skeletons, who function with much more efficiency than animals due to their ability to concentrate fire from afar with shortbows.
>>48106951
A normal level 3 animate undead creates 1(+1) minion OR Maintains up to 4 previously created ones.
Each level above that increases both values by 2.
So a fourth level slot creates 3(+1) or maintains 6 and a fifth creates 5(+1) or maintains 8.
So at 9th level you have 3 lvl 3, 3 lvl 4, and 1 lvl 5 spell slot. Plus an additional 5th level slot from arcane recovery which the quoted poster did not account for increasing our army size by a fair amount.
This gives us a total daily summoned army of 3(1+1)+3(3+1)+2(5+1) = 28 maintainable army of 3(4)+3(6)+2(8) = 48.
So you can actually maintain a considerable army built over several days by using some slots to maintain your army and the rest to continue raising more.
>>48107052
but would that number of minions be powerful in comparision to other high level spells for a wizard?
>>48107052
My math failed me.
Refer to this anon for the correct summon numbers.
>>48107038
He has the right of it.
>>48106692
See http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358145-5-0-necromancer/page3&p=6359150&viewfull=1#post6359150
The problem with all of this is that it relies on being able to have an army, an undead army at that. I feel like GM Rule Zero or simply people being afraid of undead would make any kind of skeleton-army build unfeasible for an actual roleplay, despite how effective it looks on paper. Even if you somehow convince your GM to allow it, and manage to have it accepted in civlized areas, you're still kinda being "That Guy" to everyone else in the group by being able to handle every combat encounter with your endless mook army.
>>48107094
Using mob rules and assuming a target of something with, say, AC 16, you would get one automatic hit for every 2 skeletons attacking for 1d6+6 damage at 80ft range. So let's say you have an army of 30, which you can create in a mere 8 rounds with a short rest somewhere in between.
That's 15d6+90 damage per round, assuming not resistances or cover. Against AC 16. From 80 feet away No saves. No concentration. No action requirement so you can still cast your cantrips and run around using items and such. And if they die you get them back tomorrow.
Obviously you will have weaknesses to things like fireball, but your will also be much more resilient than the average mage to single target effects, grappling, stuns, paralysis, sleep, etc.
>>48107158
The better way to play this in a group I think is to give each party member a "Squad" to lead and command the skeletons/zombies to obey their commands.
SO give the fighter some grappling ghoulies. Give the rogue a distraction to set up sneak attacks. Give the warlock an honor guard, the monk a shadow, the cleric a buffer line to secure passage to the wounded. And keep some archers with yourself for artillery of course.
Squad tactics is what really makes an army shine.
And a squad is only as good as it leadership.
>>48106692
>build a decent necromancer in 5e?
Literally just be someone who can cast animate dead, and have a full caster progression. You can be a necromancer wizard if you want more, better skeletons.
That's all you need, really. Just cast animate dead a lot, get a semi-permanent mob of skeltals, and give them both ranged weapons and finesse melee weapons. You can also give some of them nets to throw at people, to make them restrained and easier to hit.
