Stat these two, /tg/
Left: Really Big, dead
Right: Not-So-Big, also dead
>>48099260
-8 HP
>>48099260
Meme show/10
>>48099260
Rogue/Fighter with high charisma vs pure STR/CON tanky fighter
Also, dead and dead-but-got-better, respectively.
>>48099328
> Left
> Dead
>>48099260
It kind of felt like a DM punishing a player with an optimized character that was gloating.
Your fancy feats and skills dont amount to shit when you act a fool jackass.
>>48100983
He's not wrong, though.
>>48100983
Dude's a friggin' zombie. Undead counts as dead.
Left: Berserker
Right: Lancer with E-Rank Luck(redundant amirite?)
>>48101484
Being Lancer is suffering.
>>48101362
Except Gregor is the min/maxed character, he's build for pure combat, and can't do anything else. Oberyn, however, was good at lots of shit.
What's really displayed in this fight is that the great houses are just inherently better than everyone else, it's why Oby whoops Gregor so hard at first. However, grr (notice how that looks just like gm) stresses that they're still human, and subject to death. Or getting one's head squished in this case.
>>48099260
>Ser Gregor 'The Mountain that Rides' Clegane
>Fighter(Champion)
>Str 20
>Dex 14
>Con 18
>Int 8
>Wis 10
>Cha 8
>Oberyn 'the Red Viper' Martell
>Rogue(Assassin)
>Str 14
>Dex 18
>Con 14
>Int 12
>Wis 8
>Cha 16
>>48101362
It's what you get for fucking around in a life threatening situation.
Someone you're about to kill isn't going to tell you jack fucking shit, why would he? Just kill the fucker and move on to the next revenge target.
How come the Lannister guard mooks in the background could afford breastplates, but they could never forge an actual breastplate (as opposed to shitty lamellar a spear actually passed through) for Gregor until he became a zombie?
>>48101521
If Gregor was min-maxed, Oberyn was the Mary Sue. Master poisoner, master warrior, educated in foreign lands, high-up noble and of course, he's a bisexual hedonist to round it all off.
Anyway...
ST 22 vs DX 15
>>48101959
Oberyn was arrogant and thought he'd won.
But actually, what he was TRYING to do was get public confirmation from Gregor that Tywin ordered his sister's murder, which basically everyone THINKS is true but nobody has proof of since Gregor has done plenty of atrocities by his lonesome without needing orders.
Publicly admitting that he killed them on Tywin's orders would humiliate House Lannister in front of their entire court.
>>48102772
>>48102606
I didn't mean to quite you anon.
>>48102792
*quote
Fuck, I need to go to bed.
>>48102302
The Lannister's wouldn't pay for a Kingsguard's armour. That would go to the treasury.
>>48099260
Left: Perception 4, Agility 4, Speed 3, Power 6, Forte 6
Right : Perception 6, Agility 6, Speed 6, Power 4, Forte 3
>>48101550
Why the high wisdom for the mountain? Combat-experience?
>>48099260
>The Mountain
Strength 5 (possibly more)
Dex 3
Stam 5
Appearance 2
Manipulation 2
Charisma 1
Perception 2
Int 1
Wits 3
Brawl 3
Athletics 3
Dodge 1
Melee 3
Intimidation 5
Courage 3
Willpower 5
Humanity 1
Merit: Huge
>Red Viper
Strength 3
Dex 5
Stam 3
Appearance 3
Manipulation 4
Charisma 5
Perception 3
Int 3
Wits 4
Brawl 2
Athletics 3
Dodge 4
Melee 4
Performance 3
Courage 4
Willpower 7
Humanity 3
>>48101521
Read the book and say that. He's Cersei level smart (which means middling for plots, high for base cunning, and low for book lernin') and the best fighter in Westeros. Dude machined himself a solid keep and a perfect (for him) life. Even his afterlife is something he would think was METAL (though he'd recognize it as a failure if he was around to see it, he isn't so he doesn't).
>>48107681
Isn't 10 wisdom average? I only play 2.0 AD&D so maybe that has changed.
>>48107930
Fucking Jeanette, why are you so best and why is Troika so dead.
>>48107930
Does anybody at all in GoT have Humanity above 5?
I would even count past characters that are dead now.
>>48108417
It's debated. Some people think 8 is the true average while 10 is the "adventurer average", i.e. exceptional people. But I dunno, it makes very little sense to me that most people have a -1 penalty for every task.
>>48102302
Oberyn never stabbed him through the breastplate in the books, he got him in the joints, under the arm and behind the knee and such
>>48108511
I dunno, humanity is sort of weird when applied to non-vampires anyway and it's based on rather archaic christian values. Unless you live in a first-world country in the 21th century, it's kinda hard to stay above 5. (Do keep in mind that 5 is considered "high" even though the values go up to 10. 10 is like... Jesus-tier.)
It's interesting though, ASOIAF is a pretty good parallel to how VtM politics usually go. Lots of backstabbing, everyone out for themselves and "the great game"/Jyhad.
>>48108480
We shall see how Paradox treats the IP. I can't be much worse than CCP.
>>48108511
Ned? Davos? Robb? Jon?
>>48108680
>>48108480
>>48107930
Well, time to reinstall VTM:B. Thanks guys...
>>48102302
not like that breastplate protected him from anything in the show
its basically tin foil
>>48109535
Has armor ever demonstrably done anything in the Game of Thrones show?
>>48109683
That one time back in Season 1 when Jorah fought a bloodrider?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYM6B7CTs8
Can't think of many other instances.
>>48109683
>has armor ever done anything in film or television
Ftfy
>>48109459
They're all pretty violent, they can't be above 5.
>>48109727
1st episode of Firefly?
>>48109702
>Jorah gets cut in the cheek
>face still 100% clean afterwards
>>48109683
Breastplates are basically t-shirts right? You can literally wear them all day, and they're just as comfy, form-fitting, and protective as a t-shirt.
>>48109838
Fuck that, my ass looks like a bag of apples
>>48102302
Fuck the breastplate, what the hell happened to his helmet?
>>48109891
Oberyn whacks it off with his spear, I think.
>>48102302
Because despite the costume designers for GoT being marginally better than most working on historical or fantasy dramas they still sometimes fall into the trap of making their characters look like members of a medieval biker gang.
>>48110434
>>48110444
>>48110464
>>48110434
All the freedom to draw and the Mountain's armour somehow looks MORE than the show's rendition.
>>48110481
>>48110481
>>48110492
>The Mountain accidentally some hapless bystanders
Was this in the books? Seems kinda silly, unless they were just peasants. Why would peasants be invited to such a high-profile event?
>>48110492
>>48110491
It's the shoulders, I think. And they've made him taller than Halfthor was.
>>48110491
>looks MORE than the show's rendition
Then who was MORE?
>>48110513
>>48110523
>>48110513
Sorry I was mean to type "retarded" after that
>>48110511
yes, it happens in the book. All of the nobles are up in stands and whatnot, but there's a ring of peasants around the arena.
>>48110531
>>48110549
Right. Why are the peasants there? Could GRRM just not pass up the opportunity to be edgy and kill some bystanders for shock value?
>>48110550
>>48110619
I dunno,if i was a peasant with a shitty life i too would try to watch some nobles kill one another.
>>48110619
It's not really that out there for a medieval society to make a big even out of this sort of thing. Admittedly safety was probably a bit better than what's being depicted here, I mean really not even a one-log-high fence around the arena?
>>48110636
>>48110619
Verisimilitude?
>>48110513
Hafthor is 6'9"/395 lbs. Gregor is 7'10"/420 lbs.
>>48110668
Some good reaction image material in this one.
>>48110651
Sure, but would Tywin let you? That's the real question. It's sort of a high profile event and I can't imagine the nobles would want the rabble there to potentially ruin everything.
>>48110663
Sure, but big events are for important people, not the peasantry. I'm not questioning the peasants getting cut up and nobody minding, I'm questioning letting them so close in the first place.
>>48110668
I'm afraid I don't follow.
>>48109887
squat more
>>48110717
>>48110689
That's what I meant?
>>48110729
>I'm afraid I don't follow.
Well, like how >>48110651 said, it'd seem a little SoD-breaking to me if there were no bored peasants wanting to watch two famous nobles (one renown as a brutal murder, the other as a degenerate) try to kill each other.
>>48110717
Even in comic form this is satisfying.
>>48110619
You're right. It should be well dressed burghers being cut up. Proles like that wouldn't get the good seats.
>>48110729
What is the point of having a big organized fight if you dont have plebs to watch it?
>>48110767
>SoD-breaking
What does this mean?
>no bored peasants wanting to watch two famous nobles
That's not the point though, it's more a matter of why they were allowed there in the first place. I have to say I preferred the more exclusive duel in the series on that account. Or if you're gonna allow peasants, at least have a little fence or something to keep them separated. It just seems so primitive for a society like Westeros to not even have basic stuff like that for such a high-profile event.
More to the point, it feels more like GRRM just wanted to go all-out on the edginess and therefore put someone there for the express purpose of portraying how evil and callous The Mountain is, and how shit it is to be a peasant. (As if this wasn't established already.)
>>48110847
That could work. Or just stopping the match if one of the contestants is haphazardly murdering the audience. I know life is cheap in societies like that, but there are still rules to abide dammit.
>>48110852
Fairly certain nobody in charge cared about the plebs in the context of that fight. For Tywin, it was about Tyrion getting fucked. For The Mountain, it was just a standard day at work. For Oberyn, it was about personal revenge.
>>48110689
>7'10"
>420lbs
He's a large fellow.
>>48110847
americans didn't even exist back then
>>48110929
>7'10
So he's basically like the average space marine, right? Probably a bit skinner and with no geneseed speshul powers, but the size seems to match.
>>48110921
Why not have them? Its a public event. Like a hanging. No reason for the nobodies to be there to watch but no one is going to stop them either.
>>48110953
He would make a pretty good chaos knight from fantasy too.
>>48109728
>Davos
>violent
Literally wot.
>>48110767
So...did the big guy die from this?
>>48111054
That and the poison on the spear. He died slow and painfully.They bring him back as a zombie
>>48111090
>They bring him back as a zombie
And suddenly death was meaningless.
>>48111054
Eventually, but more due to the incredibly deadly poison Oberyn had put on his spear.
It rotted/melted Gregor from the inside out. Took him about two weeks to die.
They sent his skull to Oberyn's family,but there's a good-sized amount of evidence that Cersei's resident Rasputin expy brought him back.
>>48111054
It was extremely painful, but whether he actually diedand was brought backor was just badly wounded and needed to heal remains a mystery for us.
>>48110986
>>48111035
m8, humanity 5 is like property damage. If you've ever flipped a table or hacked at someone in a warzone, you're below humanity 5. Humanity is a stupid system.
>Humanity 10 is not having selfish thoughts whatsoever
Literally a thought crime
>>48110986
Because they can interfere with the event? Because they're smelly and unsightly? Because it detracts from the prestige of the event?
>>48111009
Yeah, that's probably a better comparison to be honest.
>>48111108
I think they may have attached a different head to him.
>>48111109
>good-sized amount of evidence
No, it's fucking confirmed at this point, at least in the TV series. Same with Cersei orchestrating Robert's death. It's 100% fucking confirmed.You can bet CLEGANEBOWL is confirmed too, given how they brought back the Hound and how everyone's talking about it. They can't resist.
>>48111109
>They sent his skull to Oberyn's family,
At least they claimed to do, but the Lannister had plenty misshapen skulls to spare from all the dwarf heads being sent their way from mercenaries who thought they had captured Tyrion.
>>48111111
What the fuck, my text disappeared.
>>48110986
What I wanted to say was that they can interfere with matches, they're smelly and unsightly and they detract from the prestige of the event. Fuck plebs.
>>48111111
>>48111156
>Because they can interfere with the event? Because they're smelly and unsightly? Because it detracts from the prestige of the event?
It is a public trial though. They probably have to let them watch by law.
Also nice sexts? Whats the six equivalent of dubs?
>>48111140
But it was a huge skull, everyone could tell that it'd belonged to Gregor.And no-one's ever seen Ser Robert Strong ever take his helmet off, or even put the visor up.
>>48111188
Plenty of the Dwarfs had huge heads. Robert Strong hides his face because they don't want people to know it's Gregor.
>>48111184
>public trial
In the context of a medieval society, and especially one that treats its peasants so badly, it makes absolutely zero sense for them to have an open event where you're allowed to just prance about no matter who you are. The "trial" itself seemed to be a closed event, just the duel was out in the open.
But whatever, it doesn't matter. I think this is one of the very few times where I prefer how the show did it. To me, GRRM sorta goes overboard with the "HAHAHA, EVERYTHING SUCKS, EVERYONE DIES AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE AN OUNCE OF DECENCY IN YOU :D:D" thing. Subverting expectations is great, but at some point, the expectations change. (It's especially jarring when certain characters have very obvious plot armor, while everyone else dies at the slightest touch.)
>>48111275
>distinctive SPESS MEHREEN-sized knight Gregor Clegane disappears after a duel
>a few months later, a seemingly random SPESS MEHREEN-sized knight just so happens to follow the King's mother around everywhere
>WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
They're not fooling anyone.
>>48110421
>>48111289
>"HAHAHA, EVERYTHING SUCKS, EVERYONE DIES AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE AN OUNCE OF DECENCY IN YOU :D:D"
If that were true then Davos really would've been blown to smithereens at the Blackwater, or executed by the Manderlys.
Of course, I reckon he's made it this far because he's the chosen one, but never mind.
>>48111289
The other trial by combat we saw was pretty out in the open as well. Not doing it in front of everybody would make it seem like they were hiding something and having more people to watch makes it that much more of a kick in the nuts. Its not like trial by combat makes any sense anyway, why not let everyone watch it?
Also the mountain is a huge asshole even by game of thrones standards.
>>48111378
thats not even the worst offender, the "swords are made from pouring metal into a mold" made me leave the room...
>>48111378
That actually makes sense for the character. Mace isn't a general, and he isn't a warrior. Randyll Tarly is the one leading The Reach main army into battle, while Mace finds himself a nice keep to lay seige to for a couple years.
>>48099260
Clegane:
Human Fighter 3,
STR 19
DEX 10
CON 20
INT 8
WIS 6
CHA 7
Greatsword, Heavy Steel Shield, Plate armor
Feats: Monkey Grip, Improved Grapple, Power Attack
Oberyon:
Human fighter 5
STR 11
DEX 18
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16
Spear, buckler, breastplate
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Dazzling Display, Improved Feint
>>48111378
That armor was fucking embarrassing.
>>48111383
That's because he's one of those with plot armor. Arya, Tyrion, Jon, Sam, Sansa, Davos and Dany are most likely never going to die, unless it's at the very end in some sort of heroic sacrifice. That was clear from pretty early on.Most ridiculous so far (in the show) was Arya getting multiple stab wounds right in the guts, which she just kinda shrugs off after having some soup and a few bandages (AND running around downtown while fighting off a terminator assassin), while Roose dies instantly getting stabbed once through armor.
>>48111473
Right, but then the armor should at least look impressive, if not practical. That stuff looks like neither of those things.
>>48111502
Gregor's INT and WIS should be like 2. He's constantly drugged out and if he isn't he has dehabilitating head aches.
>>48111552
Isn't 2 like sub-animal levels?
>>48111552
>dehabilitating
debilitating*
>>48111545
Getting stabbed in the guts isnt a guaranteed kill even if its is pretty likely. People survive much worse.
>>48111436
The topic was armor, but yeah, I agree. That was pretty derpy.
>>48111473
He is literally wearing neoprene "chainmail" m8. I like GoT as well, but when it's bad it's bad, and this season had plenty bad.
>>48111577
That's what he is basically. Sandor says in the books that Gregor killed one of his own soldiers because he was snoring to loudly
>>48111628
I can kinda see where he's coming from.
I've wanted to strangle my cat because her snoring is getting on my nerves more than once.
>>48111628
Being a terrible person doesn't mean he has sub human intelligence. He has to manage a keep and a fief so he cant be that stupid, even if he gets people to do it for him he has to make sure they arent fucking him over.
>>48111626
gods, all this time i thought it was just some fancy clothing but youre right, its diving suit mail T.T
>>48111552
Gregor can speak. Creatures with lower than 3 int cannot speak and tend to be immune to mind effecting abilities.
>>48111617
That's not the point.
She, a fragile little girl with no armor on, is stabbed multiple times by a trained assassin, is dropped in a sewage-filled canal, and then wanders around town aimlessly without any form of bandage until she's finally picked up and cared for. Compare that to Roose, a grown man and trained warrior, who is stabbed through his armor, a single time, and then immediately dies within the next 5 seconds.
It's just uncanny, especially since both are stabbed around the same area on the body.
>>48111705
The point is that he can't control his anger. He gets angry very easily and lashes out uncontrollably attacking anyone.
I mean in the books and the show he loses a joust, kills his horse because of it and attacks the son of the third most powerful lord of the realm. He gets pretty animalistic.
>>48111626
>>48111733
Are you guys sure it's not some sort of gambeson? Looks like shit either way, but I'm not sure it's meant to be pretend-chainmail.
>>48108680
I for one am happy to see White Wolf in the hands of Paradox.
Read an article a while back about the development of WoD by CCP, apparently it was a fucking mess and the guy in charge was incompetent.
>>48111785
>Are you guys sure it's not some sort of gambeson?
It's clearly made from some sort of padded fabric.
Anyone who thinks that's chainmail needs their eyes checked.
>>48111791
Yeah, good riddance to CCP. Paradox are alright developers, I just hope they can find some real talent to work on an RPG of sorts. They're not known for that themselves.
>>48111816
sure its some strange new type of padded armour made for swimming in the castle moat :p
>>48111111
That's a big get
>>48111866
4meNo seriously, I've never even had quints. I'm so happy right now.
>>48111847
Dude, all the castle privies empty into the moat with nowhere for the water to go after that.
You go for a swim in that, and you'll be dead before you can say "Cholera? Never heard of it."
>>48111748
People are weird and survive shit they shouldn't be able too. A woman survived a fall from 10,160 meters once and then there is this guy.
>>48111902
Perhaps Arya was wearing that, hence why she didn't die of infection after getting stabbed and thrown in the canal.
>>48111888count again friendo
>>48111913
Yeah yeah, but it's still feels inconsistent. That excuse only goes so far when in one scene, plate armor stops a blade while in another, it's like it's made out of paper.
Also, it just feels very VERY convenient when this so happens to be one of the protagonists that randomly survives such grievous wounds, especially since she's apparently fine a few days later.
>>48111902
I think he is talking about how it appears to be made from a diving suit of some sort.
>>48111979
I thought the pattern was supposed to resemble the leaves on a rose, as fitting his whole theme?
>>48112009
bruv, you high?
>>48112009
Fuck if I know, I didnt get that far yet.
>>48112050
Why do people keep asking me this question?!
No, I'm not high. Makes sense to me, if you think of the leaves going down instead of up.
>>48102772
I built a character capable of killing both those guys actually lol.
>>48111436
>thats not even the worst offender, the "swords are made from pouring metal into a mold" made me leave the room...
Where was this from?
>>48111626
>He is literally wearing neoprene "chainmail" m8.
What if it's just a fancy doublet?
>>48111545
>Roose dies instantly getting stabbed once through armor
Ramsay had much higher Sneak Attack damage than the Waif.
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJptaHqta1Q
>>48112467
cant remember the exact episode, they melted ned stark's greatsword and made this mess in the process
>>48111913
>A woman survived a fall from 10,160 meters
Now that's interesting, tell me more.
>>48112508
>Ramsay had much higher Sneak Attack damage than the Waif.
He would, he used to be able to turn invisible.
>>48112601
A plane got blown up and she was the sole survivor. She was in a coma for 27 days, had broken legs and was temporarily paralyzed. She made a full recovery and went back to air hostessing.
>>48112608
When was this?
>>48112661
>A plane got blown up and she was the sole survivor.
Only because they expected her in the wreckage.
>>48112560
They could just be making it into two different billets to be worked later. Also isn't his sword made of damascus steel whatever mcguffin metal?
>>48112686
Back when him and a bunch of Misfits got superpowers thanks to a lightning strike. He also time traveled at one point and hid himself by becoming super hoodie.
>>48110953
>>48110929
He's six inches taller than Andre the Giant, though quite a bit skinnier.
>>48110668
lel fucking grappled by 20 STR
>>48112560
I think the excuse has something to do with Valyerion Steel but it's a thin one. And I mean, being basely offended is what you're supposed to feel during that scene, anyways so..
>>48111378
Welcome to House Tyrell. This is their Great Lord, a fat, pompous oaf who's only good at sitting around wearing flowers and looking important. Here we see him sitting around wearing flowers, and looking important.
>>48112953
They have a very competent old lady though.
>>48112953
Mace Tyrell is actually one of the most astute politicians in Westeros. Everyone keeps underestimating for his pompousness while he amasses soft and hard power in his family's hands. And no, it isn't because his mother's schemes, even if she helps.
>>48112985
I feel for her after the Green Trial, in spite of everything.
>>48113037
It says a lot about game of thrones when some of the most competent characters are a midget, a young girl and an old lady.
>>48113079
>Arya
>Competent
Ha! Even in the books where she kills like 5 people before deciding the Faceless Men aren't for her, she's still pretty awful at everything besides not being a dead Stark. Which is a feat on it's own, it doesn't make her one of the most competent people.
You want a fighter who can survive the world of GoT? look to Bron, the Kettleblacks, Daario, or the best character in the whole fucking series and the biggest crime of the show, Strong Belwas.
>>48099260
Undead
Dead dead
>>48113268
Bron is pretty based.
>>48112728
lel, Iwan Rheon will always remain Simon the Melon Fucker in my head
>>48099260
Mountain
>str 18
>dex 10
>con 16
>int 10
>wis 10
>cha 10
Oberyn
>str 10
>dex 18
>con 12
>int 16
>wis 10
>cha 18
>>48113357
Misfits is a good show.
>>48112467
>What if it's just a fancy doublet?
No matter how fancy that doublet is I don't think they will be able to make synthetic fabrics for another few thousand years in Westeros.
Stop being in denial, the whole season was a mess. Battle of the bastards was the only redeeming part and even that had a few pretty eye-gouging errors in it.
Dan & Dave literally have no idea wtf to do without the books and it's obvious.
>>48107681
I gave him average wisdom because that goes along with perception and survival stuff which I'd imagine Gregor wouldn't be terrible in.
Oberyn got the lower wisdom because he spent his time trying to make Gregor confess which allowed him to do a pretty good grapple.
>>48113398
I kinda stopped caring after they got rid of the original cast, but the first 2-3 seasons were gold.
>>48113451
Best season so far though.
>>48113485
>goes along with perception and survival
You could just say he is proficient or even expertise in those.
I'd never peg Gregor as a 10 wisdom. Dude's fuse is literally shorter than Grey Worm's dick, against his own even.
the show needs some belwas and bron in a buddy cop movie style narrative as they kill people over the world while fucking bitches and getting money
>>48111188
There's this vision Bran has in book 1 or 2 where a mountain turns into a man, opens up his visor, and there's nothing there.
>>48113563
I think its the first one. I have some idea a load of blood gushes out.
>>48113560
Belwas is a eunuch.
>>48113591
well then he gets to eat like a piglets just hope he doesnt gorge himself in sweet flavored bugs
>>48113585
Yeah, black blood, like what the manticore venom did to Gregor.
>>48101484
So, what, this guy, but no axes?
I'm down with that.
>>48113639
What do manticores even look like in game of thrones?
>>48113585
>>48113639
"There were shadows all around them. One Shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them loomed a Giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."
>>48113671
Kinda like a scorpion, I think.
>>48111343
It's less about convincing anyone than simply about denying it. Who's going to call out the SPESS-MEHREEN-sized knight about it?
And it isn't just that he keeps his face permanently hidden. Ser Robert Strong isn't seen to eat, drink, go to the bathroom, and he has never said a word.
>>48110929
For you.
>>48108017
He's actually really high in book learning tho. He forged a few links in his maester's chain, so he's probably above the average noble in knowledge.
>>48111108
Yeah but he's not really him, just a walking corpse.
>>48099328
"dead"
>>48110434
>>48109683
as stated, jorah and the bloodrider, the hound was lollig at his being armoured all the time, i think arya tried to stab his armour once, and got whacked by him for it.
>>48111108
Not really. He's just a mindless zombie, unlike other undead in the series.
>>48099260
Bad luck.
