Solar System Edition
I tip my hat to the new Fistitution Sub-Edition
In the last thread information on how well Papa Sang flies and what the other planets in our solar system are good for in 30/40k, the Phalanax became a subject for discussion along with the appeal of the Fists, secondary reasons of the Primarchs for their parts in the Crusade were listed, the Lion's greatest enemy was posted, we saw that one picture again and that drawfag really is improving if you can believe it, another pointless muh Dorn and muh Perturabo debate happened and you guessed it the Iron Cage showed up plus more in the last thread >>48078832
Red Book Links:
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HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8aqx9j3a8erqv8d/The_Horus_Heresy_Book_6_-_Retribution.pdf or
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkat.cr%2Fthe-horus-heresy-book-6-retribution-pdf-t12199249.html
HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
Other official downloads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
HH Rules:
Crusade Army List: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1lprm5vd99yafa3/
Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: https://mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
30k/40k Rules: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/
30k Black Library: https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
Strawpoll link: http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764
Why does the Death Guard have the best color scheme and best dice?
Reposting my question from the tail end of last thread, if that's okay.
>Speaking of the space sharks, how heretical would a shattered legions combo of loyalist death guard (in dusk raider colours) and terran raven guard (in carochadon colours, although still with a raven emblem on their shoulder) be? Couldn't decide between dusk raiders and RG, then thought why not both, and figured those two scheme colours would look good alongside each other. (Would put all the dusk raiders in Mk III and all the RG in Mk VI to meet the "must be distinguishable" shattered legions rule.) Also would prevent me having to paint a load of marines in black.
>>48094612
I say it's heretical depending on how's it done.
>>48094563
See that's what I think of when I hear "paragon blade"
>>48094612
If you're going to make them carcharodons, give them the carcharodons symbol as well, anon. Don't be lazy.
>>48095067
But they wouldnt be space sharks yet, they'd be pale nomads/Terran RG, at most they'd be grey with maori tattoos all over their armor.
>>48095067
To be honest, the bit about them still using the RG emblem was actually an attempt to stay fluffy as I didn't think new chapters (with their own insignia) were really a thing at this point, instead becoming a thing after the siege of terra. Have I got that wrong?
>>48095086
There's nothing saying that they wouldn't after becoming blackshields. And they were Space Sharks by early M32, so there's nothing saying that they weren't during the Heresy when Corax sent them away because he was racist towards Terrans.
>>48095116
Remember that the Space Sharks are exiled Terran remnants of one of the Raven Guard's chapters from before the Heresy. Also, legion chapters with their own icons are a thing, though they were worn on the shoulder opposite of the legion icon, or on one of the knees.
>>48094612
Sounds legit
>>48095157
Pic also related, note the symbol on the Terminator's kneepad.
>>48094563
It's grittiness: the colour scheme in grittiness: the setting.
Power axes or swords on my BA assault marines?
I'm leaning power axes because I think the other 16 guys can handle marines competently enough and the axes might be able to tip engagements with 2+ guys in my favour or take some with me instead of it being just a massacre.
>>48095234
Axes, model them as really big swords though, since Bangels love swords.
Local players keep playing 2+ armor heavy lists and bringing spartans. I introduced Medusas and outflanking Vanquishers. Oh and a Malcador Infernus.
I've been looking at SoH and been wanting to play them. What are your thoughts on their special units? Reavers seem OK and their termies look badass. Are the special characters worth fielding?
>>48094960
>>48095067
>>48095162
Cheers for the replies lads, nobody's called it complete bullshit as an idea as yet so I guess it should be okay. Will do a bit more reading on chapter/legion iconography and that.
At 1250 points, would you play against this list or call it bullshit?
Lehio Cybernetica, 1250/1250 points
== HQ ==
Anacharis Scoria (315)
+ Xanathite Abeyant
== TROOPS ==
Tech Thralls x15 (80)
Ritual of Pure Thought, Carapace
Tech Thralls x15 (80)
Ritual of Pure Thought, Carapace
Castellax x2 (260)
Targeters, Flamers, Frags
Castellax x2 (290)
Targeters, Darkfire Cannons, Frags
== FAST ATTACK ==
Vorax x3 (225)
Frags
Scoria joins the Vorax, everything runs forward and hopefully bodies into the enemy.
I don't want to be a shithead, I just really, REALLY want to convert a Scoria.
Alright, I found ANOTHER set of rules for planets in 30/40k these being the warzone traits of 6th ed.
>>48095472
SoH were my first legion and I got to say, their special units are top notch. Kitted out reavers dominate the board. Always run 2 squads of 15 with jump packs. Give them power swords and watch them melt units
Lore masters: what period of the Horus Heresy does the Invasion of Paramar occur during? My understanding is within weeks after Isstvan V, lasting for a few more weeks after that. Mostly concerned with the Alpha Legion's activities and presence.
>>48095652
Happened right after the drop site massacre
>>48095628
Some anon did this compilation a while ago.
>>48095628
Are those for the game or just general descriptions of the gamestore atmosphere?
>Corrosive Atmosphere
>cheetos dust fingers
>High Gravity
>bunch of fa/tg/uys
>Toxic Mist
>BO
>Warp Winds
>noxious farts
>Sub-Zero
>it's ironic, there's actually no AC
>Pall of Night
>store's open later than usual
>Radioactive Hot Zone
>someone ate chili
>Low Gravity
>unsupervised gamestore kid
>Psychich Dead Zone
>somebody forgot their codex
>Haunted Wastes
>nothing but MTG players
>Lifeblood Spores
>someone has a flu
>>48095701
I've had a game set on a ghost world, it was a bitch, but also hilarious since me and my opponent combined lost two squads and a rhino to the same objective.
>>48095812
>charm/charisma level of customers:
>Sub-Zero
ftfy
>>48095116
Yes and no. Chapters, companies, battalions, hell, even squads developed their own heraldry and history, any one of which may have ended up being used for a post-heresy chapter. It's not a perfect one for one, but you'll pretty much guaranteed to find heraldry representing every single second founding chapter represented in some part, somewhere among their parent legion.
>>48095418
You proud of yourself?
>>48095628
Huh, I just realised that the rule section for lifeboom spores is gone.
>>48095234
The zog is with this?
>>48095392
Normally it would be axes no contest but I can't escape the feeling that I would be wasting the +1I from my RoW if I go with axes.
>>48095939
Alternate universe traitor-slaaneshi Bangel accosts a loyalist Iron Warrior.
>>48095973
I didn't even see the Slaaneshi symbol.
>>48095652
Paramar was 673.006.M41.
Istvaan V bvegan was 566.006.M41.
>>48095930
>>48095628
>9/11
>image shows two towers
Oh you.
>Unstable Internment
>A Contemptor-Cortus must always make Sweeping Advances if it is able
>Without Remorse, Without Relent
>Models with Legiones Astartes (Blood Angels) must always make Sweeping Advances if they are able.
How many more examples of this are there? Is there ever a reason you wouldn't want to sweep? Should someone tell FW this isn't really a nerf?
>>48096002
>M41
You're 10,000 years off.
>>48096044
Sorry, force of habit.
>>48095930
What are those cards from?
>>48095418
I guess the counter to your army would be lots of blasts (muh phosphex) and several lightnings, or what is your AA game?
>>48095636
You could say Justaerin are...top knotch? :^)
>>48094563
>best dice
You may have missed some sets of dice.
Like, all of them.
>>48096041
Don't forget Word Bearers must also make sweeping advances as well!
>>48096078
You are forgiven.
>>48096136
>What are those cards from?
The rules are from 6th ed rulebook, some random guy made MtG card out of them for no reason.
Thanks for putting that image together, I was about to go through the HH books.
>>48096041
Word Eater Blood madness and Berzerker assault
30k maelstrom of war cards when
Id settle for a chart to roll on
>>48096137
Nah mate, the only other dice set that comes close is the Alpha Legion dice. All the other ones are pretty bad.
>>48096449
What?
Sons of Horus and Emperor's Children are supreme sets.
>>48096283
They should release a deck of cities of death cards first, not sure why they havent.
>>48094563
>>48096137
>>48096449
AL dice are one of the best but you nignogs are crazy if you think the DG ones aren't classy as fuck, and I'm not even a DGfag. The minamlist ivory and snazzy pale green are great.
>>48096250
>>48096156
Is there any disadvantage to having to sweep? Surely if the enemy is already at the point where you choose to roll for sweep it's more beneficial to just kill them all?
>>48097718
You get shot next turn.
>>48097853
Wait, so after the initiative roll-off you could just say "you know what, nah, I'm not going to sweep, lets keep fighitng"?
Trying out Tamiya clear
Also thinking about using metallic red for Bangels
Fuck me, Dreadnought drop pods are huge. Worth it when my Contemptor-Cortus strolls on out right into some enemy backfield, though.
>>48097894
>>48097853
No, because at this point the enemy has already failed their morale check and are attempting to flee. If you elect not to sweep the only thin that will happen is youll have a fleeing enemy on the table who can rally next turn.
>>48098008
It's a pain to transport, too, because no one makes Dreadnought pod sized foam.
In the old MkV power armour description it says: "Where Mark 4 helmets, armoured plated and cabling were available these were often used." This would mean that it's possible to have suits of MkV armour with no exposed cabling on the limbs, no studs since there's no additional plating being added to inferior armour materials, and instead of the MkV helmet, it'd have a MkIV helmet. So basically a MkVII with MkV torso and MkIV helmet.
So, how little effort and dedication would this take?
>>48098083
Mk V is not just the official Mk V pattern you see on the models, it also refers to the mix and match combat repairs you see during the Heresy. They're saying sometimes they would grab a Mk IV helmet if they could find one, then combine it with inferior suit pieces that they had on hand. The Mk IV assault kits have torsos with no exposed cabling since the assault squads put an extra armor plate to cover the vital power cables on the chest.
Guys, what would be spookier for you? Being a Legion serf and watching your legion of choose degrade into barbaric slaves to darkness, or being a civilian on Terra and watching all of the twisted minions of Chaos come down onto the homeworld of humanity and see just how far they've fallen? Also I did a thing.
>>48098083
>>48098166
If it doesn't have studs, especially Crotch studs, why would anyone call it "MkV"?
>>48098062
Battle Foam does. You guys really need to stop buying from the cheaper foam companies just because it's cheaper. You get what you pay for.
>>48098194
Because the fluff for Mk V only says the studs are common because that's the best they had on hand? If you're making a Mk V but have good materials you can make a studless Mk V.
That's like saying why have Mk IV or II pieces on any suit other than Mk IV or II since they're so hard to manufacture.
>>48098180
>Traitor Legion of choice
Send me to the Frills.
>>48098166
>Mk V is not just the official Mk V pattern you see on the models, it also refers to the mix and match combat repairs you see during the Heresy.
Under FW fluff, there's production and non-production MkV suits. And none of the MkV suits in FW books are "just cobbled together from bits and pieces." They all have a distinct MkV style to them, they just make some things differently or use some parts from other marks.
Production MkVs are the "ones you see on the models." Though which models, is the question. When you look at official MkV models, there's clear differences.
Pic related: Non-production MkVs.
>>48098372
And pic related: Not MkVs.
>>48098372
>none of the MkV suits in FW books are "just cobbled together from bits and pieces
>they just make some things differently or use some parts from other marks
>posts image of cobbled together suits
wat
>>48098218
What I'm saying is that studless MkV is like a bringing a Destroyer squad without a rad missile launcher. Sure, you could do that, but then what's the point of it?
>>48098474
Did you just miss >>48098397 which also features suits made from various parts and these are specifically not MkV suits? Or the fact that the non-production MkVs still contains a lot of the features found in the production MkV suits, just have some other bits on them?
I thought that was apparent, but I guess not.
>>48098520
Having something that's a bit different from the norm and still perfectly fluffy? We got decades of history on the Horus Heresy and various sources, pieces of art and models to draw inspiration from, and instead people go and buy the Official(c) Horus Heresy(tm) models from Forge World and paint them in the Official(r) Horus Heresy($) colours.
>>48098520
That's a shuri-frank!
>>48098520
Aren't the studs inferior to actual armor plates? IIRC the studs are there to attach adhoc armor and to provide some extra protection. None of which is needed if you have actual properly fitted armor plating.
Studs and cables are the hallmark of Mk V though. I guess if you had the facilities to make properly armored suits you wouldn't be making Mk V.
>>48098664
Just because you have a Ferrari's engine and tires doesn't mean you can just make a Ferrari. Especially since you only have experience making Audis. You can make an Audi with a Ferrari engine and tires, but not a Ferrari.
The difference between a MkIV and V is not just the size of the cabling and quality of the armour material. The V used the solid plate design of the IV, but put older style systems into the suit, because most facilities were far more used to working with them and knew them. MkIV was a relatively new and advanced suit, so making it was more demanding.
>>48098664
>I guess if you had the facilities to make properly armored suits you wouldn't be making Mk V.
Well, production MkV was meant to be "easier MkIV", wasn't it?
> IIRC the studs are there to attach adhoc armor and to provide some extra protection. None of which is needed if you have actual properly fitted armor plating.
Studs are an easy way of attaching extra armour, and there are occasions where you'll want extra protection even for already good armour. Like for the greaves or forward pauldron (left pauldron for right handed people). Or for the crotch.
>>48098372
>>48098397
Nice compilation. Would you happen to have the production MkV as well?
>>48098846
>Or for the crotch.
>posts EC
Oh you
>>48098846
There's not much to them, really.
It was just something I put together after having a lot of discussion about the MkV and all the different sources. The modern fluff (the cards that came with the special edition SM codex) is not that different from the old RT era stuff. Some details have been omitted, but the general description of the armour and its history is the same.
>>48098908
>Those crotch plates sure get worn down easily, right, frather astrotechnicus?
>You're wearing artificer armour, brother sergeant. That's 70% unaltered adamantium by weight.
>Such is war, brother. Such is war.
>>48098994
Yes, I remember. Thanks a lot, anon.
Happy 4th HHG, Hope you all have fun blowing things up.
Why are rampagers the most useless unit in the game?
>Cost as much as vets
>No access to power weapons
>No furious charge
>They can take jump packs if you want to spend 30 points for a WS 4 dude with a jump pack and chainaxe
>They can buy caedere weapons which cost as much as power weapons for vets but are objectively worse
>They get a 6+ FnP
>They have scouts which would be cool but you can't scout and charge on the first turn
I mean I'm not asking for anything OP or even good but I want SOME reason to take them. Give them rampage (they are called rampagers), give them furious charge, make them WS 5, give them hatred, give them preferred enemy in challenges, let them charge turn 1 if they scout. Any of those would at least be a reason even if several of them aren't good reasons.
>>48099554
>Posts the American Legion.
Nice.
Wait, it's already Freedom Day where you are? Huh.
>>48099597
Everything you've said is true, but I really wonder why they get Scout in the first place.
>tfw Death Guard's special units and color scheme seem awesome.
>Don't really like Morty or Typhon as characters lore-wise. Fine with them statwise.
>Did I mention that I love their colorscheme?
>Iron Warriors are pretty cool, hazard stripes look awesome.
>Special units seem pretty good, the beep-boops are cool too.
>Perty seems like a pretty cool guy.
>Don't really know much about their characters.
>They seem pretty cool all around.
>Word Bearers color scheme is nice, awesome after you factor in the runes and symbols and stuff. Still unsure between blue eyes and green eyes.
>Special units seem awesome, except the Mhara Gal, which has an awesome unit.
>Lorgat is probably my favorite primarch. Their special characters are cool too.
>I like their unique wargear too.
Y'know, from my points listed it seems like I should just go with Word Bearers, but I just feel indecisive. Especially since Death Guard have such a nice color scheme.
>>48099935
You listed three of the most popular legions around here so any choice won't diversify that much. I suggest Iron Warriors due to my personal bias in this situation. Torrent "Angel Extermiantus". It might endear you to them.
>Buying two 5-man squads of terminators to go with two dreadclaws
>Armed all with power weapons except one spec wep and one chain fist
Should I put both those upgrades on one Terminator or spread them out a little? My instincts say spread em but I wanted some contrary opinions and experiences.
>>48095614
The moment you selected Scoria, I'd refuse to play you.
>>48100136
lol, you just shoot him. it's not hard.
So I played with Ophion the other day. the opponent's Bangle Preator got shreked.and then Ophion proceeded to get powerfisted by some low level veteran.
>>48098180
I see someone was all up on dat shark week
>>48100124
I love that Terminator and it's all thanks to that one picture of him. Imagine all of the horror that one RS has seen. Pic related.
>>48100136
Scoria's just a Primarch but shorter, more tubes, and is more into beep boops than the others.
>>48100302
Did the Bangel have aPerdition Blade
>>48100335
He did. he was regularly putting 6 wounds onto our hero.
>>48100239
Alright, what in a 1250 point game would you bring that could kill Scoria?
I am very interested.
>>48100347
Can't keep a good Night Lord down
>>48100349
10 man plasma support squad.
damn near guaranteed one Gets Hot! death.
>>48099873
I assume the idea is that they are so aggressive that they go full leeroy jenkins and charge ahead of the main army.
>>48100364
He dies really fast to Instant death however.
also in one of the games I took him, a Necron command squad(?) and some wraiths swept him and his squad. it was a sad day.
>>48100371
At rapid fire range it's only doing around 2 wounds to Scoria. That's before the It Will Not Die.
And if you are in rapid fire range that squad will die next round.
>>48100434
Wait, how is Scoria surviving 20 plasma shots again?send him two plasma squads?
>>48100451
>send him two plasma squads?
Why not seekers with combi-plasmas?
>20 BS 5 plasma gun shots that have preferred enemy
>>48100451
Well, he is toughness 6 with a 3+ invul and feel no pain. He's pretty damn hard to kill.
>>48100401
Well most people die quickly to instant death so I guess that can't be TOO much of a mark against him.
Also 40k doesn't count. Too bloated and OP.
>>48100469
might be cheaper too.
Hey guys, does anybody have a painting guide (from yourselves or FW) on how to do the tac marines like this?
If it was all able to be done by brush work that would be optimal.
>>48100469
That could work if they can get close enough. Got to make sure you don't get sniped by the castellax.
>Phoenix Guard Champion kills a Praetor in a challenge
>Eidolon and entire palatine squad gets shreked by veterans after failing a charge
>Opponent then wipes out a squad of 17 tacticals by overruning them with 3 vets
>One 5man heavy flamer squad passes 45/48 armour saves (this one made me really fucking salty)
What a fucking game
>>48100532
drop pods?
I've been thinking of doing a orbital assault list actually. I think I'll try this set up in my next game. Lord knows I have the drop pods for it.
>>48100554
That could do it if you get behind the vorax so they aren't soaking the wounds.
Watch out for augur arrays and cyber ocularis though. Interceptor will ruin that.
>>48100538
I love watching games like that, not playing, watching, lol.
Once I saw a game of WE vs IF. In the same assault phase 4 IF vets charged ~20 WE tacs. All the vets except the sergeant died and the sergeant then swept the WE on his own.
Meanwhile on the other side of the board Polux got overwatched by a power fist kheres WE contemptor and died.
>>48100583
honestly though, even if I did get behind Scoria, he would just look out sir all the wounds.
I think if his whole retinue is gone and no primarchs get too close he should be easy to ignore. His multiple wounds don't spill over do they?
>>48100495
FW airbrushes everything.
>>48100495
>Blue eyes.
>>48100538
I fucking love Phoenix Guard just for hilarious initiative. Get some phoenix guard, a praetor, a champion and a chaplain (or two champions or a chaplain and a forge lord with rad grenades), charge anything that isn't a primarch or Sevatar and kill him and his unit before they even get a chance to swing. I've seen glorious Sigismund killed by Phoenix Guards before he even had a chance to swing his fancy sword.
What are the least and most played 30k legions?
What is the most fluffy non spartan way to get into CC with Death Guard? Options I can think of are bikes, jump packs or jet bikes.
>>48100822
Least played are Salamanders or White Scars.
>>48100822
Least Played are definitely Salamanders, though I don't understand why. Most played would be Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, and likely Imperial Fists.
>>48100900
>Least Played are definitely Salamanders, though I don't understand why.
Salamanders are just really bland
LA rules
>Better flamers and better protected against flamers
>Immune to fear
>Slower than normal marines
Special units
>Special Weapon Squad with dual flamer/meltas as a heavy support choice
>WS 5 TH/SS terminators with 2 wounds
Special characters
>A very hard to kill WS 6 dreadnought
>A WS 6 chaplain with a cool hammer and eternal warrior
>A psychic chaplain who is hard to kill
Special Wargear
>Master craft stuff
>Storm shield
>Eternal warrior
>Can replace heavy bolters with heavy flamers or whatever
Honestly it feels very bland compared to the other legions. EC are all about being aggressive and getting the charge, world eaters spam attacks in CC, Word Bearers have super possessed, Iron Hands are effectively T 5 when being shot at, Blood Angels are effectively all strength 5, Death Guard are all about chemical weapons and shit, even Ultramarines copied the Iron Warriors' heavy weapon terminators. Salamanders just can take extra flamers, some chaplains, and some shit that 40k marines get. Nothing is really a game changer, not like EC wound resolution shenanigans, or better initiative on the charge or unkillable Iron Hands vehicles, or entire armies of super possessed like WB, or S 5 marines with assloads of attacks that can't score and kill themselves like WE.
>>48100822
>Non-spartan DG
>Fluffy
Why arent EC a more popular choice?
You would thing being the absolute best melee legion in the game would be a bigger draw
>>48101221
There's nothing absolutely incredible about them, sure, but who doesn't love flamers, best terminators, and seas of green?
HHgen, I'm putting together some plastic marines from B@C and I want to build a small support squad to ride in a rhino, jump out and blast people.
Plasma guns, flamers, meltas or should I try to scrounge bits to make volkite weapons?
>>48101317
But you can get flamers with any legion, every legion has access to special weapon squads where everyone gets a flamer, everyone has access to heavy weapon squads where you can give everyone a heavy flamer, and TH/SS terminators already exist in 40k, they aren't an interesting unit really compared to I6 AP 2 power spear terminators or super possessed or entire squads of terminators with heavy weapons.
>>48101319
I personally like volkie caliver squads for the wounding on a 2+ at long range.
>>48101303
They were never that popular but they weren't deprived like IH
>>48101418
Hmm, then I'd have to figure out how to make some. I was thinking of cutting down some Necron weapons since they're high tech looking and I feel like it's a nice coincidence that flaying weapons happen to have been developed on Mars right?
Maybe start with a Necron disintegrator, cut out the whole middle section?
>>48101303
Gays hijacked their colors, shit characters, worst Chaos power. Noise Marines are only cool with guitars, all their other shit isn't that interesting. Some of their specialized models are alright but they're not all that different from typical 40k stuff with aquilas out the asshole.
No point in playing Fulgrim's bitch boys when you can play as any of the other traitor legions and be a kool cid.
>>48101221
I dont think it's fair to say that they are the blandest, that's a really subjective view point. Also there's a lot more to legions than just their rules. Lore and aesthetic also have to be taken into account and whether or not you think those things are cool or not are also very subjective.
I think the only reason Sallies are so scarce is that people who frequent /HHG/ just don't find them cool. Your post about finding them bland kind of supports this. I mean my HH group has about 7 players and the only repeat legion is the Salamanders.
>>48101527
Shit characters
>Initiative 7 with a thunder hammer is shit
>>48100090
I torrent so you don't have to.
>>48101561
Talking general appeal you midget-enabling fuck, if you're playing 30k for the rules you're probably a terrible person.
Eidolon's a cunt, Lucius is a retard, Fulgrim lusts for incestuous relations with Ferrus' corpse, etc... isn't Tarvitz dead too? Even if he wasn't he was still just generic reasonable, which there are boatloads of in the rank and file elsewhere so he's not that special.
>>48101516
Just buy the fuckers off Forge World, save yourself the misery of trying to hack apart a pile of shitty Xenos weapons. Probably cheaper, too.
>>48101548
Except at the end of the day you are talking about a game. Playing salamanders isn't very different than just playing 40k salamanders. You can take some different vehicles, sternguard are BS 5, honour guard are WS 5, tactical and assault squads are 10-20 dudes and scouts can't be your mandatory troops. Ruleswise there just isn't much to be excited about, I guess their dreadnought character is cool and firedrakes are hard to kill but that's it.
>>48101303
They aren't the best melee legion, that goes to blood angels. Also EC seem pretty popular.
>>48101678
>if you're playing 30k for the rules you're probably a terrible person.
I thought the whole apeal of HH is it isnt an unbalanced clusterfuck like 40k
>>48101678
>Eidolon's a cunt, Lucius is a retard, Fulgrim lusts for incestuous relations with Ferrus' corpse, etc... isn't Tarvitz dead too? Even if he wasn't he was still just generic reasonable, which there are boatloads of in the rank and file elsewhere so he's not that special.
Yes, EC are dicks. That's the whole point.
>EC before the fall
Look how much better I am than you plebs, I bet you cry yourself to sleep every night wishing you could even polish my armour. Wait you mean you killed 45 Orks and I killed 44? Oh God my life is ruined, I'm worthless. Nobody talk to me, I'm going to write a sonnet to clear my mind.
>EC after the fall
Oh hey I heard you needed reinforcements so I came to help. You see that ridge that your men are on top of that is about to be overrun? I am calling a lance strike on that ridge so when the enemy takes it they won't have the high ground.
>>48101788
There's more than just the game. A lot of people like to collect and paint and a lot of people like to play to make stories.
>>48100495
Those Calth boxes were done by the GW studio fyi
>>48101678
>isn't Tarvitz dead too?
More or less. We don't know his and Rylanor's final fates but it's for the best if they did die.
>>48101813
You see, Ivan, that's part of the appeal.
>>48101896
Sure, but most armies you see are probably armies collect to play and when you collect an army to play it theme matters quite a bit. I chose World Eaters even though I hate their colour scheme and suck at painting white because I liked the idea of an extremely bellicose legion all about a blunt headlong charge. If world eaters were instead 40k black templars in terms of rules I probably would have chosen another legion because it isn't an interesting thing to play compared to hordes of str 5 6+ FnP tactical marines with 101 attacks on the charge that causes 1 in 6 of them to die.
>>48101965
Well like I said it's all extremely subjective. And I posit to you that even though the armies you see are armies for playing that there are many armies you don't see much of especially on forums like this because the owners arent so much into the playing of the actual games.
>>48101813
It is LESS of an unbalanced clusterfuck.
If you want a 'balanced' game, scrap your entire collection and get into chess. There's no point in buying expensive resin models for the purpose of "balance" - you get people complaining about FW scale and power creep all the time, and I see 40k players regularly spam quad mortars and Fire Raptors too.
>>48101870
If you want to be a dick, you're prooobably a terrible person. By all means, you can enjoy the stories, but it takes a special kind of special to want to make paintings with your own feces. That's the kind of special EC represent, and that's why MOST people won't play them as they just can't identify with it. Same reason nobody plays Salamanders,blacks don't play this game and whites don't want to be black most of the time. :---)
Night, boys. For all of you WSfags waiting for your legions, here's a little present for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmo3fKeveo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98
>>48100495
That pic has blue eyes.
FW are they green or blue, please tell me!
>>48102005
>If you want to be a dick, you're prooobably a terrible person.
>Baw someone wants to have fun playing an obvious villain
Besides EC are tragic heroes, not in the modern "oh no he is good but bad things happen to him" sense but in the classical Greek sense where the hero is indeed heroic and competent but due to a single flaw they end up causing their own downfall. The EC were a damn good legion, the Blood Angels and Ultramarines both complemented them on doing their own jobs better than them at times, but they were perfections and damn proud of their perfectionism.
The best story about the EC in the FW books IMO is when an EC Lord Commander was trying to fight a war against some human empire. Some military aide realized that he would need reinforcements to end the war in a timely manner and called for the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists to send reinforcements. The EC commander still led the war, the Fists and Angels still followed his overarching strategy, and everyone kept commending him throughout the campaign and after for his competence. But the fact that he needed reinforcements and worse yet that he didn't even ask but had a third party make the request was such a huge stain on his honour that as soon as the war ended he left without bothering to attend the surrender ceremony of the conquered empire.
>>48102086
Weren't they described as being blue, but painted green for contrast?
Who cares though, I paint my IW with blue lenses because it makes them look cooler.
>>48102086
No one knows. I've seen FW pics say green, this one is red, a couple of 40k art says green, but I keep hearing blue.
What is the best melee Legion so far in your opinion? What about best shooty Legion?
>>48101608
Anon, if you're still here can you post Word Bearers books? I've been wanting to read more about them and Lorgar, though I don't want to pay for FW books.
Also, question.
Is there any particular order to read the Horus Heresy books, or no? And are there any books that are recommended reads in the series/recommended reads in general?
>>48102242
Considering playing World Bearers as my first Legion. Nothing quite like Zealots.
>>48102127
>but painted green for contrast.
That annoys me more than it should. Especially since the pictures have green in the HH books as well.
>>48102135
This one's believable to me, since it's their Imperial Heralds color scheme.
>>48102235
EC and either Ultras or Bangels respectively
What legion has the most game-changing LA and rites/sire rules?
>>48102235
I don't know, but I'm going to guess either Word Bearers for melee and Iron Warriors for shooty.
Could be completely wrong though.
>>48102118
We're not talking about fun. We're talking about sinking significant money, time and effort into something, over a span of months or even years. It's a massive undertaking if you intend to do a good job and not just haphazardly slapping stuff together for kicks.
Most people will pick something they idealize, sympathize or identify with, or just plain think is cool. Why do you think so many neckbeard fucks with a drinking problem play fucking space wolves?
>>48102003
>And I posit to you that even though the armies you see are armies for playing that there are many armies you don't see much of especially on forums like this because the owners arent so much into the playing of the actual games.
That's essentially my point. For all we know salamanders could be one of the most popular armies, it is just that most people who own those armies don't actually play the game and simply collect the miniatures. I'll admit that when I started 30k I seriously considered Alpha Legion just so I could buy all the special units and use them in games with coils of the hydra. I still buy some special units (bought some palatines, phoenix guards, gal vorbak, and dark furies (fuck I love the sergeant's lightning claws)).
>>48102242
The first four books, and only those.
>>48102342
>We're not talking about fun.
We are talking about a game you mongoloid.
>Most people will pick something they idealize, sympathize or identify with, or just plain think is cool.
And glorious marines in fancy boroque armour who are obsessed with single combat, art, and perfectionism but end up falling into degenerate assholes due to their pride aren't something to be idealized, sympathized with, or cool?
If you want nice EC look at Saul, he was a marine who cared more about his duty than his pride.
>>48102235
EC and Fists
>>48102242
Here's "The First Heretic". As for the order to read these in, no idea. We all know how this story ends, so I just bounce around in the timeline with whatever books interest me
>>48102343
I guess we kind of were saying the same thing then
>>48102391
I was assuming we were but I am too angry to let a debate die unless I know I have gotten my point across.
>>48102390
Thanks anon! This and The Aurelian are the books I've been looking for!
>>48101608
Also, how is Angel Exterminatus? I'm starting to run out of room so I'd rather a second opinion before I download it.
Do you think we'll ever get a Death Guard/Mortarion novel. Granted, there's not much they could do during the actual heresy, being stuck in the warp and later all plague marines, but I'm sure a pre heresy book could be done!
>>48102467
Anon who suggested it in the first place here. I liked it a lot. I think it added dimension to the Iron Warriors and Pert especially that wasn't exactly there before, like how "Betrayer," added depth and character to the World Eaters in a way that was still fluffy. What this book did for me was give me a newfound appreciation for Perturabo
>>48102491
Flight of the Eisenstein and Daemonology. Also BL has proven to be a bunch of slackers and have started a Primarch mini-series.
>>48102500
You've sold me. Now I just need The Aurelian and I'll have three books to keep me company while I should be doing things like assembling my models and studying my Russian.
>>48102491
That'd be nice, I'd think. I think that the Death Guard have the best color scheme, in my opinion. How long were they stuck in the warp, again? Surely they had time to fight in the heresy before then, right?
>>48102545
>That'd be nice, I'd think. I think that the Death Guard have the best color scheme, in my opinion. How long were they stuck in the warp, again? Surely they had time to fight in the heresy before then, right?
They didn't get stuck in the Warp until it was time for the main event for this party - The Siege of Terra.
>>48102467
It's great in my opinion, showing the side of the Iron Warriors that isn't seen as much when just reading the outside sources. Great set pieces, awesome characters, giving us a look into the twisted characters of the 3rd legion, and doing the impossible in making Perturabo a likable character. Fabius Bile's in it, the Eye of Terror gets it's name, the Iron warriors play holographic 30K, and Fulgrim gets shot in the face. The quintessential parts of a good book.
I love the Mechanicus.
>>48102235
Emperor's Children for melee. Fists, Iron Warriors, or maybe Alpha Legion if you like shooty.
>>48102235
Blood Angels followed by EC for melee, Fists and Iron Hands for shooting.
>>48102738
Hu-... Humanity... Fuck... fuck yeah...
Just quickly knocked together a test scheme for DG. What does /hhg/ think? Toom much weathering? Too little? Bases will be burnt out cities hence the black ash on the boots and greaves.
>>48103235
>Mk.VII
Anon, plz. I could forgive you if they were test models, but my autism demands an apology.
Other than that, they look great! I feel like the green on the shoulders could be a bit darker, maybe? Sort of like in >>48094563
>>48103265
But they are test models, Anon. I wanted to nail down a scheme and method before buying a shitload of Mk II and III dudes.
>>48103235
Looks good. The white is a bit too brown but the choice of green is good. The paintjob itself is great but the white is just a bit too coffee stained. You can dial back the paint chipping if you want but it's only a little busy and not overpowering.
>>48103284
Oh, sorry anon!
Mind telling me what you did to paint them?
>>48103285
I think that the white's perfect in my opinion, they it might look better if dialed back a tiny bit, I'll agree. I feel like the chipping should be dialed back a little as well, but other than that they look great!
Mind telling me why you're going with DG? Lore, playstyle, or even just the color scheme that drew you to them?
>>48103307
Airbrushed VGA Bonewhite and VGA Dead White over a VGE Heavy Sienna base, then washed the thing with Gryphonne Sepia. Drybrushed VGC Bonewhite and VMC Offwhite over the top before sponging on some VGC Charred Brown and dusting the boots with Vallejo Pigments Carbon Black. Pads are the shitty remnants of my pot of Knarloc Green then washed Sepia. Metals are VMC Bronze with the same Sepia wash.
>>48103285
Cheers mate, I'll see if I can either thin the Sepia wash or push the highlights up with Dead White as well. I was worried I'd overdone the chipping but I think it's just on this side of too much. Not bad for an hour's work though.
>>48103354
Thanks Anon. I went with them for the lore and play style mostly. After reading Path of Heaven I thought My Dudes could be a small cadre that burns the shit out of neutral worlds to scare the others into siding with the Warmaster and also to draw out any Loyalists into a open fight. I love the idea of this Legion just marching their way across ruined hellscapes to get their job done. I'll be running the Reaping and go for mostly infantry and Dreads with some phosphex mortars for backup.
>>48103265
>>Mk.VII
Could be siege of terra era-ish loyalist DG. Every armour mark was present at some point in the heresy
>>48098062
KR does
>>48103452
Mk VIII was present during the heresy?
>>48103747
Towards the end yes, and intermittent prototypes showed up randomly iirc.
>>48103747
Near the very end, it started to show up at the Siege of Terra for sure, the IF at least definitely had more than a few suits by then.
>>48102118
>>48102382
I just want to say thank you for properly describing what's great about EC, but I'm afraid it falls on deaf ears when it comes to that sperg you're replying to.
What is the best use for Mutable Tactics for AL?
I assume Scout to just outflank fucking everything
>>48103235
I like them. How did you do the weathering on the lower legs? I've tried a few times fading the weathering up from the feet but it never looks great.
>>48104082
I just used a drybrush to pile on some Carbon Black of pic related to their boots then worked it up. Pretty easy to do.
Are we ever getting Learnaen Terminators or are BaC Cataphractii with AL shoulders the best I can hope for.
Also I really hope they spice up the rules if they do a real model release. Theyre pretty bland as is.
>>48104593
Of course legion unique units are going to get a model.
>>48104593
10 more points than a regular cataphractii for +1WS and Stubborn
Im not really seeing how this is supposed to stand out at all in a legion that can take every fucking special unit in the game
>>48105016
>Im not really seeing how this is supposed to stand out
That just means they're the most Alpha Legion unit of them all.
>>48105047fuk u
Arthuritas Daine, Champion of the IX legion
>I wish you good fortune in the wars to come... and now it begins.
>>48105246
This conversion is interesting in that the more I look at it the worse it gets
>>48105246
>>48105314
That pose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=forahRNJzgA
>>48102491
quite sure a DG book about how Typhon orchestrated their fall to Nurgle is in the works
>>48103265
Christ. It's like when I made a long post about something and specifically said in the very first line "this isn't talking about that one thing we all hate" and the first response is "fuck that thing we hate and fuck you for trying to talk about it."
This is the sort of attention span that leads to people going on angry twitter rants and riling up the people to attack someone over nothing, purely because they read something wrong.
>>48095614
>>48100136
>>48100239
>>48100349
What does Scoria actually do at 1250?
He's walking. at best he scouts with the Vorax. There are no primarchs for him to beat, he's overkill on custom HQs, he doesn't deal with hordes so you can tarp it him. If he's locked in CC then he can't use rite of the beast, wasting much of his appeal. Punk his vorax and let him rot in a sacrificial blob.
>>48105016
Don't they also come with Volkites though, so really your only paying 3pts for stubborn and +1 WS, pretty good deal
plz stop 'BA best assault legion'
BA are NOT the best assault legion.
Pseudo +1 str and a sword only available to HQS.
use your fucking brain and do the math.
Alpha Legion Suzerains are best assault legion.
oh, sorry I mean EC are best assault legion.
Math is hard
>>48105801
I think once BA get their units/characters/Sanguinius they will edge out the top assault legion spot. Then again that's still like being the second best.
>>48105801
Who actually says that though. I think you just misread people saying "best assault cannon legion".
>>48105314
>>48105334
I'm sorry you guys dont like it. I was going for a rendition of this badass motherfucker.
>>48105853
>>48105246
I think it's just a bit too busy. I know BA are known for their bling, but the eye doesn't know where to settle on the model.
>>48105853
Forgot my pic
>>48105941
Yeah I can feel that. I can always take away. At the moment I'm happy with where it is, honestly.
>>48105801
While there are certainly other legions that hit much harder then BAs, they don't have to rely on a gimmick to make their bonus work, like most of the other assault legions, its just +1 to wound on everything against everything forever
>>48105246
Whats going on with his left leg?
>>48106120
that's just it though, the bonus is shit. struggling to wound isn't an issue, EC are best because of combat resolution and sweeping, they're not reliant upon getting the charge.
>>48106377
The bonus isn't shit, an increase from wounding on 4s to wounding on 3s is pretty decent, but it lacks the dramatic potential of some of the abilities that the WE or EC have.
>>48102382
It's a hobby first, game second. You buy the models, work on the models, and then maybe play games with them. The two proceeding steps are required for the third. Without the funds for the first step or the ability to enjoy the second step, you will not be able to play.
The fall of the Emperor's Children is so hard that in many ways it doesn't really make all that much sense compared to the other traitors, and they're usually written as being thorough bastards rather than perfectionists. Saul was mentioned, but for every Saul or other sympathetic EC character most other legions have a dozen.
Except for, you know, the others legions nobody plays.
>>48103969
The question was never what made them great, but why people don't play them.
>>48103235
Little more definition in places would be good, but colors seem rock solid.
>>48103265
You know all he would really have to do is cut away the aquilas and purity seals and add some studs and he'd have instant MKV and none of y'all black hoes could say a damn thing about it.
Though personally I'd recommend 32mm bases.
Is there some general consensus on low points (up to 1500) mechanised infantry Ironwing Protocol? Sure, the Rite may provide some unused bonuses, but close range advantage looks like it may tip the balance.
>>48106670
So it's almost...balanced?
>>48102582
It's not good, it's amazing.
>>48105960
Personally I would bring his legs a little closer together. The pose is actually pretty damn rad man. His right hand might need a slight rotate so his palm faces more towards his torso.
Try to make his hips a little narrower, and take pictures from another angle. I want to see more. The hair looks pretty neat by the way, can you give any close ups?
Tell me about how your last game went.
>>48105246
Daine?
>>48105246
What's with the EC symbol on his shoulder?
>>48108092
sanguinary guard shoulder pad?
>>48108092
Eagle wings are not exclusive to Emperor's Children. In fact, there's really not a whole lot of symbols across the legions that I would consider truly exclusive to a legion. The Palatine Aquila and the Hexagrammaton being two of them.
>>48107816
1500 points againts 40k IG. He brought a shadowsword.
Stomped his ass real good.
I get so fed up of fucktards saying this same shit over and over...
The EC do NOT use Eagles, or the imperial Eagle, such as you see on the imperial aquila, or on IF and Ultras.
The EC use the Palatine Aquila, which was the Emperor's personal heraldry and its a PHOENIX not an Eagle.
>>48107683
Thought the model was giving the thumbs-up.
>>48108360
I need more info.
>>48108380
I just thought it was similar to pic related is all.
>>48108401
Sweet tits on the Man Emperor's mother it's real. Apparently track 7 is the most violent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUN7eRlka_U
>>48108401
Shadowsword nuked one of my venator tank destroyers turn one. The other one got stunned.
Second turn Pask and another leman russ died to castellax dark lance. I love double sixes for explode. He also found out that lasguns don't really work well on castellax.
Turn three the only surviving tank destroyer stripped 5 hull points off the shadowsword.
Turn 4 the shadowsword died to the tank destroyer. Some scion came in, did 2 wounds to a thanatar, and then received a plasma shot to the face.
It was over after that but we finished the game up.
The shadowsword missed entirely for three of its four shots that game.
>>48108538
>The shadowsword missed entirely for three of its four shots that game.
No wonder it died. The Machine Spirit needed to die.
To who does /hhg/ owe their allegiance?http://www.strawpoll.me/10663447
>>48105597
He's there to make people piss their pants at some imagined impotence of theirs to stop him from being meaningful.
Quick! Make this 30k related!
>>48107816
My Sicaran Venator finally penetrated a Superheavy. It almost felt unfair seeing my opponent's Fellblade become useless and die for most of the game.
But then his Dreadnought Deredeo decided to be the MVP and tear apart most of my army.
I kept shooting at it with my Vindicator Laser Destroyers but the dude had a 3+ cover due to rolling Master of Ruins on the strategic table.It was my NL vs his BA
>>48110090
Leman Russ vs Magnus the Red.gif
>>48096000
>>48095973
>>48095939
>>48095234
Which alternate history is this one. I thought they fell to Nurgle in the Dorian Heresy?
>>48110090
Beareversor finds his target.
>>48110090
Something something alphbearius something.
>>48107027
>You buy the models
Which for the EC look amazing. Palatine Blades and Phoenix Guard look amazing in baroque armour painted in purple and gold, the colours of emperors. If you prefer a grittier legion that is understandable, but some people like the idea of a legion dressed in fancy armour to look glorious in battle and the EC do that better than any other legion.
>and then maybe play games with them.
And the EC have good and fun rules that match their legion. They are aggressive, they murder guys in CC quite possibly without a scratch and are only matched in challenges by the Imperial Fists. Their generic praetors are the 3rd or 4th best due to striking first and lowering enemy WS by 1.
>The fall of the Emperor's Children is so hard that in many ways it doesn't really make all that much sense compared to the other traitors
Look up the Praxil Compliance in book 1, it is the third battle the EC have mentioned in their section and perfectly illustrates the flaw of the EC. Lord Commander Iddinam was trying to conquer a powerful empire alone but needed reinforcements. After getting reinforcements he utterly stomped the empire but was so ashamed of needing aid that he left rather than accept accolades for what he had considered a defeat. The EC are the poster boys of pride, jokes directed at them are taken seriously, compliments are assumed to be veiled insults, congratulations for what they see as a failure burn horribly. When Iddinam was being praised for his successes to him it felt as though everyone was mocking him for needing reinforcements to succeed.
>>48110459
Wait, so how would you rank the generic praetors? I'm interested.
>>48110459
Be fabulous or be dead, there is no other option.
>>48110555
Also looks sexy as fuck in darker colours
I'm that same anon from a few weeks back who realized I never really was a NL fan and I was an IW player all along. Whats the story of you realizing your true legion? I'll go first.
After high school I went to school to be an engineer for a bit, but ran out of money and joined the Army to get the GI bill. It was around this time that I learned one of my biggest life lessons: I'm not special. I joined the Army during the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and was told every day that I was going to get deployed and die. At some later training I met with members of other legions... er branches of service and learned that the Air Force got a special quality of life allowance for having to live in sub-par conditions on Army bases, and I was constantly reminded by the glorious Marine Corps that the Army wasn't the first ones in, the best equipped or trained. Later after I got out, I got a job in manufacturing as a quality assurance tech. MFW none of my incompetent, lazy bosses know how to read a blueprint, let alone a metrology report. I now run the lab in all but name and get "adequate" employee reviews at best despite working about 20 hours of overtime a week.
I don't hate my job by any means, I like what I do, but if Horus asked me to turn traitor on the CEO of my company I'd definitely think about it.
>>48110508
DA, EC, BA, WE, and Salamanders all have a good combination of LA and equipment.
>>48110580
I'm distrustful of others, prideful, and dislike specialisation.
>>48107816
1500 points against Tyranids. Contemptor with dual Kheres, Sicaran, and Leviathan shot most of the army to shit. Terminators and Gal Vorbak cleaned up the rest.
>>48110459
You misunderstand me. There is nothing wrong with their models or your preferences. It just so happens that the aspects you mention simply do not hold broad appeal, hence why not many people play them. People like their gritty, reasonable soldiermen regardless of flavor, because in many cases it is a manly ideal, or their noble savages. The Emperor's Children deviate from that, and so are less favored.
>>48096606
Death guard get shit
>>48110814
>dual kheres contemptor, sicarian and leviathan
Next you are going to tell me you allied 10 myrmidon destructors with vulkie culverins against green tide.
>>48110508
1. Salamanders (3++ and eternal warrior makes them able to go toe to toe with Sigismund)
2. Blood Angels (double wound sword and wounding 1 better gives them either a str 6 paragon blade or effectively 12 str 5 AP 2 attacks, plus rite of war for better initiative on charge)
3. Emperor's Children (-1 to enemy WS combined with striking first (or at absolute worst the same time) gives them such a big edge that DA don't get a benefit, WE just make up for the WS loss, and Fists still have to survive to get their rerolls)
4. Iron Hands (3++ while being able to get extra attacks is simply too much for most legions to handle)
5. World Eaters (+1 WS and an extra attack if they charge is simply too much for many targets)
6. Fists or Dark Angels
7. Fists of Dark Angels
>>48111027
What makes Fists so good? They only get one reroll per phase.
>>48111088
Better than nothing, also they have access to storm shields. 6th or 7th place isn't very high and one reroll per phase helps them to some extent vs EC and World Eaters while Dark Angels gain no benefit against either of them. I can't think of any legion outside of those 7 that have any advantage in a challenge over other legions.
>>48111120
Alphas can get a cheap extra attack with a specialist weapon thanks to power daggers. Meh.
>>48111153
Well I assume we are working on pure fighting ability over any sort of cost efficiency. Sort of like if you put them all in a tournament with the best wargear you could to ensure they win (eg. jetbike, thunder hammer, master-crafted paragon blade, digital lasers, iron halo, stormshield or cyber familiar if they have the option, sonic shrieker, etc.) and their placing was their odds of winning the tournament.
>>48111120
But Dark Angels do get the benefit if they successfully hit with a stasis grenade or missile. They also have the ability to take rad grenades which, combined with -1 to WS and I, and Mastery of the Blade makes them deadly against stronger foes. Sure it's a bit too complicated to make it work in every situation, but you've dismissed them too early.
>>48110944
I just used the models I actually had. I'm still making my army.
>>48107816
6k of alpha legion vs 3k of loyalist WE/allied knights led by Garro and 3k of mechanicus lead by "totally Not Scoria" (for narritive purposes, he was trying out the rules). The Glaive is a fun beast, Not-Scoria is an ass, and was also the only thing left alive for the loyalists at the end of the game. My vigilator managed first blood in the deployment phase against a WE contemptor, which is always a good sign of the game to come.
>>48111362
Where did the mechadendrite touch you?
