Any other arms and armor welcome too. <3
Mail 'n' plate a cute though.
Will dump some shit.
>>48068384
>>48068384
>>48068421
>>48068384
>>48068421
>>48068445
>>48068384
>>48068421
>>48068445
>>48068475
>>48068384
>>48068421
>>48068445
>>48068475
>>48068503
While we're at it, anyone got some nice stuff on all the transitional period armor?
>>48070937
>>48068559
That's pattern welded, not wootz.
savebump
What sort of niche did greatswords fill on the battlefield?
>>48074205
wasnt used much but it could be used to fight spearmen but was mostly another sword to use or decoration
>>48074205
Wall defense during siege
>>48077231
>>48078283
Oh fuck, wrong image!
Ignore that!
>>48078283
nah its okay hes wearing super sikrit invisible armor
>>48078327
yeah, sure.No homo
>>48078324
gambesons are cool too
Am I the only fucker in this thread...?
>>48074205
I don't remember where I heard it so take it with a adequate amount of salt, but I've heard that they were used, among other things, by bodyguards on the battlefield to keep (numerically superior) opponents at arms length untill reinforcement could arrive to save the VIP.
>>48074205
Heres a guess, you gave them to the biggest guys you had along with some playe armor. Then let them bully everyone else in a battle by simply smashing people into submission. They were probably solid knight killers as well, being more capable of killing unarmored or lightly armored horse in comparison to a warhammer.
They were rare though in any case, same as fuck huge aristocrats.
>>48078665
I can believe it.
You can threaten a LARGE area with a greatsword and when people get close you half-sword it and use it more like a staff.
And staffs can be real dangerous if you know what you're doing.
>>48074205
the movie "flesh and blood" shows some good greatswording.
>>48068559
Oof, someone left that in the acid for too long.
>>48068445
how practical is that eye slit?
>>48078771
A Greatsword is not a particularly efficent knight killer weapon. You'd be better of with some sort of armour piercing weapon such as a crow's beak for that purpose.
Just giving a huge fuck-off weapon to the biggest warrior you got isn't necessarily the best way to go around either as overkill is a waste of resources. You also have to take into consideration what sort of opponents you are facing as that heavily effects what weapon is ideal to field against them.
As long as you are not covered from head to toe in plate it's far more efficent to use a spear (or something similar) and a shield, aswell as a side arm than a two handed weapon (with the obvious exclusion of pikemen). And even if you decide to go with a two handed weapon you are better off with something multipurpose such as the previously mentioned crow's beak than a greatsword. There's a reason two handed swords were uncommon throughout history.
>>48078878
For the designed purpose of protecting against incoming arrows? I'd say pretty great.
For melee? Well that's why you got a visor for; open it up so that you can see properly if you desire to remain unwounded!
>>48077244
What's that, bronze?
>>48079275
gold.
>>48079420
Like a true baller!
>>48079825
>>48080162
>another ARMS and armour thread
>no one ever posts arms
Hammers, faggots. I need hammers.
>>48081300
>>48081300
This is the best I've got.
>>48081320
>sword in the stone
Fug. How am I only just making the connection?
>>48074205
Not much of a thing in the ancient world or early medieval era considering if you've only got mail and you don't want a shield it makes more sense to use some sort of polearm than a massive two hander , but Two handed weapons sort of became the weapon of choice for plate wearers after shields became rather redundant in the late medieval period, being rather good for knight v knight and knight v lighter armored polearm group, and they aren't half bad at unhorsing people either. Later on in the pike and shot era they were good at keeping pikes from being as much of a threat as they otherwise might be.
>>48081425
I don't know. You were born next to a lead mine?
>>48081300
HAMMER
>>48081300
>>48081562
That must've been a fun commission for the blacksmith.
>>48074205
they were literally non-existant except in pike-and-shot formations, like the landschneckts, for breaking up and deflecting pikes - they are unwieldly and useless. sorry to burst all the fantasy video game rule of cool memes.
>>48082368
So, was it polearms like >>48081336 that your heavy infantry would use?
>>48082483
pole axes weren't even around in pike and shot formations. greatswords only became a thing in the 16th-17th century. halberds were the pole-arms of the 16th-17th century
>>48082505
That was just an example, were they the sorts of things that the men-at-arms would use, then?
>>48082527
in the 15th century warhammers, pole-axes and picks were the armour-openers of their day, each knight/man at arms would provide their own panoply of armour and weaponry.
>>48082577
Oh. Just when I thought I had the grasp of all this stuff, I realize that it was all spread out over four or five hundred years of history and I've no idea where to start learning.
Fun.
>>48082617
read osprey books that are spread over the evolution of warfare of those centuries, which become progressively more and more distant from each other as they advanced. 15th century warfare was a completely different thing from 16th century pike-and-shot, which developed from the decline of cavalry due to disciplined professional infantry-heavy armies wielding long pole-arms, almost entirely stemming from the swiss methods of war.
>>48082617
transition from feudal levee to professional standing armies is the gradient from which the early medieval period developed toward the late, which changes everything, along with all the complexity of changing tech, social conditions, etc
So let me get this straight, greatswords were used to fuck up pikes? What about fucking up horses, like sweeping them under the legs and cutting them up? Any use at all against a person?
>>48082753
by the time you lifted how many kilos that thing weight your weak armour joints would be seized upon in moments
what evidence remains of pike-and-shot tactics involving greatswords shows them being used to bat aside pikes and create openings in pike blocks, for their comrades behind - or to fend off attacks from their own pike blocks' flanks, which could be horsemen, yes.
>>48082753
>Any use at all against a person?
Well, if he was wearing any armour worth spit it'd probably just knock him over. Plus it wouldn't be easy to swing around in a dense melee.
Y'know that bit in the Battle of the Bastards where Tormund gets pinned against the Smalljon by the crush, and there's so little room they just have to keep headbutting each other? Like that.
>>48082806
>>48082753
a note that if you were using a greatsword for actual hand-to-hand combat with another person rather than deflecting pikes, you use it as a spear by grabbing the upper half, which is blunted, and the bottom blunted part below the quillons to stab rather than swing it
>>48082973
What's with the bag around the guy on the right's neck?
>>48083805
coinpurse
>>48084245
that armor seems really big
is that king Henry's armor?
>>48084378
>>48084297
>that armor seems really big
>is that king Henry's armor?
I believe it is. When I visited the Tower of London about 15 years ago, there were multiple suits of his on display, from his younger, fitter days all the way up to his "we're gonna need a bigger horse" days.
>>48071002
What's this artist's name and where can I find books of their collected works? I see them posted so much but never really remembered who it was.
>>48084549
Angus McBride
>>48084272
>that jap/euro mixed-style armor
God that gives me the hots.
Please tell me this actually existed.
>>48084297
for you
Shields are cool.
As are clothes. Gotta have art for those mages, or anyone when they're strolling about town or a gala without full protection.
>>48086283
except these pieces of shit you posted
>>48086489
Then give me better ones, sempai.
>>48085189
it did. When europeans came to japan they sold not only their guns but also some armours.
I've even seen a combed morion with added japanese neck-plates.
>>48081320
Seems practical...
>>48086145
That helmet is just straight up silly. Seems way practical though as any opponent would just laugh themselves to death before you even had to swing once at them.
>>48087532
>Duckface - the Visor
One side of the chinese twistcore saber in >>48094575 shows Tibetan style hairpin laminations
>>48095225
The other side shows four-row twistcore style of laminations.
http://mandarinmansion.com/rare-chinese-twist-core-saber
>>48078283
Is that Grifith?
A more practical example of a guom compared to the one posted above.
Republican era bow
>>48095358
who did absolutely nothing wrong
>>48086519
>>48078283
GRIFFISUUU-
>>48068384
To counter gunpowder with, none other than, infantry, the Chinese decided that more armor was needed. This was the result. Kind of funny actually because they copied it from Siberian tribes that the Jurchen - later the founders the Qing dynasty - raided daily. It was great against arrow armed foes constantly riding in circles around you
>>48103043
The Chinese also needed ways to fight pirates. One generals answer were the Duck Squadrons. A group of men armed with various weapons held specific tasks.
The reason being that Japanese pirates would bait the Ming army to respond to a seemingly large threat in the northern territories. Once they moved, en masse, that way then the Japanese pirates would attack several large targets in Central and Southern China.
After rinsing and repeating this a few times, the Ming were desperate. The Duck Squadrons were left throughout China's coastline. Several squads would defend certain villages. The men in the front used their shields to deflect incoming missiles launched at them. The pikes kept the Japs and their swords that were folded 9000 times at bay. The trident men kept the flanks safe, as well as issued orders: they were the officer(s).
It worked really damn well... and the unthreatening name makes for a really neat surprise when you read up on their success. Too bad Jurchen horse nigs wrecked them in just a few years.
>>48103097
Speaking of Jurchens, they had some really neat armor too
>>48103109
Their system of cataphracts were hell on the infantry after they were hit by enough arrows to make any of the survivors look like pin cushions
>>48103126
Once Westerners arrived in China, they were met with surprising reactions: interest. The Jesuits especially drew in a following of intellectuals and nobles. The style of Western art depicting an almost picture-like quality blew many Oriental minds away.
The monks were employed as tutors and artists more than advisers by the nobles. The emperors even had their sons taught by the Jesuits
>>48103149
The steppes never forgot their heritage. Thanks to an insane Russian... I could go on for hours about this alone, but here is the wiki link for anyone interested [and you should be, shit's crazier than fiction]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_von_Ungern-Sternberg
Today's Mongolia still keeps that cash nomadic armor in their modern Honor Guard. I love the look despite it lacking all modern fuction
>>48103197
Bows were a universal idea, but their shooting-style and shape varied from region to region
>>48103224
Some more examples
>>48103224
>universal
>>48103224
>Bows were a universal idea, but their shooting-style and shape varied from region to region
Yeah, I was listening to this AltHistory book called The Years of Rice and Salt the other day, and there's a little bit that stuck in my mind where this mongol guy who's raided a Magnar village for supplies comes across a locally-made bow that doesn't look anything like the one he used to use. He starts wondering if it was just a child's toy that he's found.
>>48103239
The Europeans had a surprising diversity to their weapons. As crazy as other cultures might seem with their weapons, Europe takes the cake when it came to creating and crafting new weapons. No region had such a devotion to weapon creation over the actual warrior himself.
European swords come in so many shapes and sizes, it's tough to show them all. Compared to the static idea of what a sword should be in, say, Japan; Europe changed its style every decade seemingly.
>>48103259
kek, universal *human* idea. There
>>48103262
Right? I'm sure after using it a couple of times it would pass for a real weapon. But sometimes I look at a foreign weapon, medieval blade or modern gun, and wonder: "is this thing even deadly, the hell am I looking at?"
>>48103291
>>48103327
Despite the static nature of what made an "effective" weapon in Japan, we all know of their great weaponry.
>>48103344
Double dubs, checked. The armor that Japanese people used before the samurai even became a thing is hilarious. I'll post some examples
>>48103360
It looks as comfy as it does goofy
>>48103327
>>48103371
>>48103399
>>48103399
More double dubs, nice. And yeah... that is as unique and beautiful as it is plain baffling. Could imagine the user knocking some heads though.
That hand guard and two-handed handle ain't no joke
>>48103421
Yes that is supposed to be a penis
>>48103421
Blacksmith: "Hey, nobleman Karl. What can I get you?"
Karl: "I want to fuck shit up while shielding myself."
Blacksmith: "Say no more, I gotchu senpai."
>>48103439
These were meant to be thrown, fyi
>>48103469
I am 100% convinced there was a bunch of historical noble neckbeard sons of merchants during the renaissance who's hobby was having totally fucking retarded weapons made for shits and gigs.
>>48103506
There had to be
>>48103496
The "put as many fucking sharp bits as you can in every direction" design philosophy does betray that doesn't it.
>>48103526
I think indians however win the "most insane weapons" competition.
>>48103567
Rip pic
>>48103526
>>48103584
Gun-dagger-brass knuckles were always a favorite
>tumblr has an arms and armor thread
>>48103584
Whip swords, that top-heavy sword you had to windmill constantly to use right, and the throwing anus. They had fun with weapons.
>>48103614
>katara
Lying injuns, that ain't Katara
>>48103656
Filipinos had some fun stuff too
>>48103717
>>48103399
The dubs post is just a regular warhammer with multiple striking points and weights. The cross-guards are intentionally wide, as is the grip and "sword" portion. This hammer was great for fighting against armored opponents and can use the top, hammer (both sides), and the cross-guard to penetrate armor in multiple ways using the many holding points for maximum effect.
>>48103421
This was part of an unsuccessful multi-purpose weapon. Yes, it is a weapon, not a shield. Both the bladed gauntlet and center spike meant it was clearly meant for offense - a simple push from the middle could be fatal. In most scenarios where the first spike would miss, you would naturally glide to the left, hitting the blades on the gauntlet. Just below the gauntlet, you can see a sword poking out. Whoever put that blade and sheath was full retard, it belongs the other way. You shouldn't draw your sword by the blade as a simple rule of thumb. Finally, the little hole at the top is actually a space for either a candle or lantern, suggesting it was designed for town guards working the night shift.
Needless to say, this weapon was quickly replaced by literally every other weapon in existence.
>>48103730
Like a South East Asian hoplite
Ottoman whistle arrows
>>48103743
Ever have a nerf dart JUST miss you as a kid? That horrific whistling that you were sure was death missing you by a hair is exactly this sound... only this arrow would break your orbitals and/or cheekbone like a hammer does glass.
During an ambush, I'm sure a thousand of these would make the enemy shit themselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFnuLbDJxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6heLw2lMXEU (skip to 00:47)
>>48101398
Sick!
>>48101050
I love the Dha so much.
>>48103632
The perfect sword for a Social Justice Warrior?
I like burgonets
>>48103779
I have no idea why, but that whistling sound is eerie as fuck. Just watching those videos made me uneasy,
>>48091838
What's that in their mouth
>>48070937
By Grungi, the armour on the left is gorgeous, anybody know how it's been treated, polished or made to make it mirror finish but also dark?
>>48107370
Steel comes in all kinds of colors, it's a heat-treatment technique.
>>48082806
Dude they were only like 2/2,5kg, they have found greatswords that weigh 1,6kg
>>48090316
Are there any other examples of maces, axes, swords or side arms in general with integrated clips, slots or hooks to attach the to belts?
>>48107370
Historically you'd use heat bluing, heating up the metal to form a thin oxide film on the metal, which got a slightly different composition and structure depending on the temperature, and with that different colours.
If you want the armour to be hardened, you need to combine this step with the tempering stage of the heat treatment process. Not a trivial thing, but luckily you want much the same temperature and soak time it seems. The colours produced by the oxidation can also be used to estimate the temperature, and thus guide the tempering efforts.
True mastery of the craft was to combine those two with fire gilding. That was the way they sued to apply gilded decoration back then, mix mercury and gold into a paste, paint on, heat so the mercury evaporates, gold remains, your hands shake a bit.
For bluing today, there are also various chemical compounds that can be used, some working in room temperature, others requiring some degree of heat. Generally speaking the cold bluing compounds may give a nice looking finish straight up, but it wears off quickly, and may outright encourage rust, whereas a proper heat bluing protects against rust.
>>48107953
It's reasonably common on late medieval/renaissance single handed axes and hammers in Europe I'd say. I'm trying to remember if I've seen it on any maces or not, I think so, but far less common at the very least there. I'm pretty sure I've never seen it on a sword or so.
Single-hand flails seem pretty rare in themselves, but here's one with a belt hook.
Ca 1570, 1400 merely being the lot number.
>>48103408
Style still reminds me of what would later be the Samurai's armor.
>>48103399
I want one.
Now.
>>48090377
How come Indian armor is never shown on a person?
I need to see the armor of mine homeland. ;-;
>>48108098
>>48108174
>>48108192
>>48108226
>>48108242
>>48108264
>>48108285
Thank you, knowledgeable people of tg
>>48108314
>How come Indian armor
Between the helmet and the round belly plate I think that one's Ottoman.
>I need to see the armor of mine homeland. ;-;
Well then...
>>48078872
>>48108098
What effect has bluing in the metal propieties/quality of, for example, a knife? It seems a really good thing to have to protect rust but I don't see it being used in high carbon steels.
>>48109070
If done correctly the blued surface will be slightly more rust-resistant than bare steel, and that's about it, below the surface the steel should be the same either way.
I guess the first issue is combining it with the heat treatment. The heat bluing step probably outright must be your tempering step, since the heat&quench will heat the steel too much (so you can't apply it in advance of that) while the heat bluing runs thing shot enough to over-temper the metal if it has already been tempered.
Now since you don't shape a blade to more or less sharp before quench (the thinner the edge the more severe the thermal shock, while there's less material to stand up to it) so for a full blade coverage you'd have to first quench, then finish grinding the now very hard and brittle blade, and then temper it. Though even then the thin edge might perhaps end up over-tempering while the bulk of the blade is still too brittle. And should you manage it, well, any surface treatment of a blade will only be partial after you hone it up again for the first time.
So if you want something like this, then it'll be on part of the knife. There it could work. Though you could probably get at least as good an effect, without all the hassle, by simply leaving those bits "forge black" instead, like on this knife. (Though I guess this may "just" be a very severe heat bluing from the heat&quench step of the heat treatment, as the blade may have been made with stock removal instead of forged.)
>>48095986
>>48096015
>>48094575
>>48101050
>>48101259
so , what's up with disc-guards? never understood why they where not extended by something more protective.
>>48110238
Considering the reasonably widespread use, I suspect it does protect quite well. Not as much as a full basket or some such of course, but compared to the basic crossguard at least I'd say you have a good amount of protection. Loose a bit in one direction, gain in another.
Perhaps worth remembering as well (depending on what you're looking at begin protected against) is that you may never intentionally block directly with the guard, regardless of if it's a cruciform sword, somethign with a guard plate, a full basket, or some other. The blade is what seeks contact, while the guard helps keep things away form your fingers once the blade start sliding along each other, as well as protecting against more or less accidental touches, and what attacks may be intentionally directed at your hands (the wrists are nearby and popular targets, so the guard covering your hands is unlikely to do much against the intentional).
With that, it doesn't take a terrible lot of guard to get most of the benefit, while adding mroe probably does suffer from a good bit of diminishing returns. And since you're probably going to carry the sword far mroe than you'll fight with it, the design will have to consider that too. As always, the right compromise will vary wildly with setting, situation, and most importantly personal preference.
>>48110238
>never understood why they where not extended by something more protective.
Keep in mind that complex-hilted swords didn't really take off in Europe until around the Renaissance, and only because dueling was prominent.
Hand snipes aren't really a thing on the battlefield and I can't imagine some mugger is going to intentionally target your hands while shanking you and stealing your coin purse.
>>48110747
>and only because dueling was prominent.
Proper duelling would from what I've understood be at a low point here in the late 15th and much of the 16th century when the hilts start getting complicated, as judicial duelling should be pretty dead by in much of Europe, while the personal duel (or even small gang duel) won't really take off until the 17th. We also see various somewhat complex hilts on the battlefield. Katzbalgers, the various German baskets, the Dutch-Swedish cavalry sword, various rapier variants, etc.
>>48103632
>Flexible rapier
Is tumblr bad at everything?
>>48110882
Are you talking about Skandinavia only KM?
In Spain, Italy and in a lesser degree france, Duels of little gangs or individuals were rife in the 15th originating mostly in Italy,but very common specially in the 16th and 17th ,and in time to a lesser degree in the18th until dying of the mainstrem be the 19th century. Heck, the Gypsies and kinkis/quincalleros and other minor thugs ( or even truckers) used to kill themselves in little duels in Spain, were the Navajero culture spreaded and died in the late 80s, were drugs and stuff become commonplace. It was part of the Sicilian culture too, I dunno if they still practice it tough, I know jackshit about modern Sicilians.
>>48103408
What the fuck is up with the TIE-fighter hat??? Like this dude just put wooden planks to the side to protect his head??? wat???
>>48107350
That there in his mouth is a cigar.
>>48091838
Vimes?
Wish there were more examples of painted armour.
>>48068384
Bump.
>>48121375
His face expresses the "which of those should I use to fuck you up" feeling pretty well.
>>48121375
Damn those look heavy as fuck.
>>48121654
They are not.
People always overestimate the weight of ancient weapons
Your average sword was between 1kg and 1,5kg (2,5 to 3,5 lbs) and even hand and a half swords were at most 2kg (or 4,5lbs)
Spear on the other hand tend to be 1 - 2kg (shaft included) and halberds 3 - 4kg (shaft included) and remember that the long handle of polearms allows for better balance and weight distribution.
Also pole arms spend a lot of ime resting on the ground, unlike other weapons
Also in general main weapons were almost all in the 1 to 4kg range, with a few exceptions, but even two handed swords were around 1,6kg
