Who are your favourite villains / what ideas do you have for cool villains?
I fucking hate these charts. It's some guy trying to push his tastes on others.
>Supreme Ultimate God Tier SSS+
>Villains who are in it for the money, or whose primary motivation is money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrYnZ7ZxRe4
>>48064605
All of those can be good under the Right circumstances.
>>48064605
Greater Ascended Tier
Guy who is just a klutz or so incompetent he inadvertently ruins the world or guarantees the success of another villain
Example Jar Jar Binks
>>48064605
Elder god tier are not the bad guys then. Just rivals or something.
That said I like various villians, but Judge Death (Young Death was so good), Nox, Dr Doom, Master from fallout always come to mind.
Your shit tier is my favorite tier though.
General Kael
>>48064605
>that chart
i like tier-ing things, but that chart seems a little random...like 'hard to put a finger on' random...
>>48065740
Absolutely savage
What kind of person does that? A genius or a madman?
>>48064605
>high tier and above aren't bad guys at all
So what you're saying here is that you don't like villains, and prefer stories with basically two opposing protagonists like Legend of Galactic Heroes?
>>48064605
>Villains whose motives are hard to find fault in and arguably better than the hero's
>Villain
>>48064605
>Machiavelli
>a villain
I think you have something mixed up, there.
>>48066023
Veidt? Vauclair?
>>48066023
Unless we're talking about high level fantasy, LOTR or Disney movies, the line between Villain and Opponent is very subtle. No Villain would ever have minions and supporters if they were in it just for the sake of being evil - evilness is more of a way of doing things rather than an obejctive purpose.
Of course, sometimes plain evil is funny too. It heavily depends on the nature of the plot. In my current campaign my players believe they're doing bad stuff for the greater good and opposing an evil tyrant - which is totally not true, but sorta fine as long as there's no magic to tell.
>>48066023
It doesn't say anything about their methods, so I'm pretty sure they can still be a villain.
>>48064605
I like it when people decide who the villain is based on their own views. Depending on your beliefs, they could be the villain, the hero, or something in between.
For the record, that's how you do moral ambiguity, and NOT by making everyone an asshole. That's just stupid.
>>48064605
Where would "villain's plan is based in good intentions, but those intentions are misguided and not worth the collateral damage" rank on that?
This is a pretty limiting list.
>>48066282
Great tier. Give a counterexample.
>>48066181
So Fallout.
Elder god tier:
Villains who know that the society they're trying to create will have no place for someone who's done what he's done. The ends justify the means, even if they can never be in their utopia by necessity.
>>48065937
Por no los dos?
>>48064605
The problem with Elder God Tier is that your players will just join them and then you're stuck with a lower tier.
>>48066314
I was thinking about the American Civil War, but yeah Fallout works too.
Honestly, favorite villain is this guy.
In my games, though, a decent campaign will run the gamut on this scale.
>>48065247
but Jar Jar was actually a Sith Lord, but Lucas fucked up the reveal & then audiences hated him sothat important plot line was cut. thus the pointless addition of Christopher Lee.
Jar Jar = Yoda
Palpatine = Kenobi
Annie = Luke
>>48066344
por-que no los dos?
for-why not the duo?
you had forgotten th question word.
Best villain of all time, coming through.
>>48066328
Superb taste, anon.
>>48066282
Elder God/Great Tier
That's pretty what those two "tiers" are filled with. People doing bad things for the right reasons.
>>48066673
>villain
what
>>48066738
Exactly.
>>48066122
>Unless we're talking about high level fantasy, LOTR or Disney movies
I mean, the hyenas in The Lion King just wanted to eat regularly.
>>48066360
>in Tyler we trusted
>>48066483
While this doesn't really pertain to the thread, I feel like it pertains to your pic quite well.
This isnt crazy original but I was thinking of a subvertion of the captured princess thrope.
The idea is that the party gets hired to save a captured princess, which all goes pretty predictably except that upon escorting her back to her country, the party will notice how spoiled and annoying she is.
Once the princess is returned savely, she becomes ruler of her nation and emmedietly starts abusing her power and warring with neighbour nations, casting her as the actual BBEG of the campaign. I'm also thinking of making her an actually pretty powerfull caster.
>>48064672
>Villains who are in it for the money, or whose primary motivation is money.
Gee, I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>48064605
Personally, I have a soft spot for villains that are willing to cause immense suffering to others in order to achieve their goals, and have a goal that puts them into conflict with the party. Other than that, I like my villains manipulative, cruel, arrogant and while intelligent, much less intelligent than they think they are.
>Absolute undisputably best ascended god slayer tier
Villainous heroes who commit attrocities in the name of waifufaggotry.
>>48067131
Wait, so he had his illusionist trick the Emperor into thinking he slaughtered the surrendered army, or that he evacuated the city he intended to slaughter?
>>48067459
The former. I just don't know how he kept the illusion going for multiple years after the fact.
>>48067379
>Other than that, I like my villains manipulative, cruel, arrogant and while intelligent, much less intelligent than they think they are.
I have a villain who thinks he's a peerless genius, and though he's pretty damned intelligent, he has no common sense and his boss (who is THE goddess of rusing, among other things) basically leads him along like he's the master planner when he mostly just makes sure her much better plan executes correctly.
He has a canonical Wisdom of 6.
>>48064605
>Personally, I have a soft spot for villains that are willing to cause immense suffering to others in order to achieve their goals, and have a goal that puts them into conflict with the party.
Good taste. It's always interesting to see a character struggle with whether or not their end goal justifies their actions. Pic related was a great example.
>>48064605
>Cosmic Horror tier
>Villains who are objectively just Someone whose interests put them at odds with the interests of the protagonist with no party having any form of moral high ground
>>48064605
always be looking at Roman emperors/consuls for villain material.
>>48064605Lawful Good villains represent.
>>48066687
>My Communism, pic related
>>48066560
I actually bought this a week ago, knowing most of the plot hasn't made it any less enjoyable. He's an interesting character and I can get why he pulls the shit he pulls.
>>48064605
I have a few villain types that I really have a soft spot for.
One of my favorite villain types is the villain who has motivations that are completely understandable even sympathetic, but their methods go way too far.
Bonus points if they were like the heroes once, but the world has broken them; made them twisted and cruel.
The Governor is a great example (the TV version at least. The mustachioed weirdo from the comics not so much,) His primary motivation is to look out for "his" people. Unfortunately, the world he lives in has taught him that the best way to protect those you care about is to be an absolute monster to everyone else.
Also, as a result of his broken psyche, he's deeply paranoid. You're either one of "his people" or you're an obstacle.
>>48067908
He began as a good villian but then just went in to full retard territory in the movies. Have no idea what he did in the comics. The more I watched the more I thought, he is doing better than Rick at protecting his people. Though they went too far with the derangement and made him too paranoid and stupid to be taken seriously, if they reigned it in and showed it in more subtle ways, in the end he was saturday morning tier at best.
>>48067971
>Show
>Not movies
>what ideas do you have for cool villains?
For D&D/pathfinder, I had the idea for a gnoll paladin of slaughter, basically championing the concept of hunger as the source of her unholy powers, and who would claim her mission was to raid and despoil across the lands with her army of mixed evil humanoids and monsters to teach the peaceful races what it was like to live with constant unfulfilled need gnawing in their guts. And while she was at it she would trash churches and museums and lord's houses and basically destroy anything made to be beautiful, on the basis that such things were made with effort and resources that could have been spent to feed the hungry, and were "hypocrisy" from those who "called themselves good". The idea was that she should be clearly wrong but that you could still sort of see how it made sense to her, and that she would be crazy enough to believe what she was saying.
Sort of started with trying to come up with a divinely powered villain who was evil but who actually had faith in their cause rather than just cutting deals with greater beings for personal power.
I was thinking of giving her this elf prince and princess who she'd captured, the former of whom she would be raising as a sort of dark squire by tormenting him and "training" him by taunting him into trying to kill her and then beating him down, and giving lessons in her philosophy while simultaneously keeping him in line by threatening his princess sister and eating her fingers off bit by bit every time he misbehaved in a way she didn't like.
Also partly the classic "I'm gonna fucking eat you" brand of fairytale villainy.
>>48068056
why am I erect
>>48066122
Morality in LotR is copypasted from christianity
>>48064605
Like I'm going to share my ideas with someone who posts such stupid images.
>>48064605
I've had an idea for a setting and a storyline bouncing around my head for a long time.
I'd love to run a setting in the not too distant future where Genetic Engineering is perfected. Humanity begins to modify itself, all manner of gene-splicing and extreme bio modification become the norm. However, the public responds with panic. Human genetic modification is banned and those who are already altered, so called Transgenics, have all sorts of repressive laws passed against them and become second-class citizens.
The villain is the charismatic leader of a new political party that has so much wealth and influence that it rivals the Megacorps and has even attained extra-legal status just like them.He's a fanatical believer that human genetic modification needs to be utterly discredited and any modified genes removed from the gene pool and prevented from propagating in order to ensure mankind's long term survival. However, he has a problem. The only way to do this for sure is to kill all the Transgens, but the public will never accept genocide. So he hatches a plot to make Genocide palatable to the public at large. He ORCHESTRATES HIS OWN ASSASSINATION making sure the assassin is a Transgen and the terrorist group the Transgenic Liberation Front are responsible.It works. Incensed by the assassination of their president, the Norms vote overwhelmingly to "resettle" the Transgenic population outside the Mega-Cities. No-one stops to consider what is actually meant by "resettle." I'll give you one guess.
I love Neutral Evil villains. My favorite villain was a somewhat blatant rip-off of Shishio Makoto from Rurouni Kenshin, see pic related.
>>48066085
>published falsified versions of history to suit his agenda
From the Greek sense, he is pure evil.
>>48068056
I've got to be honest, this just reads like the fanwank of someone who honestly believes the Vatican should be torn down and the resources used to buy food for the starving.
>>48068594
Nah, see, the VILLAIN is supposed to sound like the kind of person who honestly believes the Vatican should be torn down and the resources used to buy food for the starving.
>>48068330
Isn't this just inverted Hitler?
Swap "killing the genetically inferior" with "killing the genetically superior", and swap "assassinating my political rivals" with "assassinating my self to destroy my political rivals".
>>48064605
bottom one makes the least compelling villains, but the most badass villains
top is not a villain
this image is dumb
>>48066085
This.
>>48064605
Machiavelli was much more of a realist than people give him credit for. "The Prince" details how to retain control as a new ruler, not how about ideal society should be. People get some stupid ideas that nobility was some heroic force, or that the renaissance was somehow better than today. The reality is that times were brutal even then, and the nobility in the Italian states were just fucking brutal. War wasn't a pretty thing where one side uses missiles and the war is finished in seconds. We're talking about a ton of bodies over a long periodperiod of time with quite a bit of pillaging and disruption going on, so suppressing rivals who would almost certainly raise an army in a succession war is actually FAR less brutal than the alternative (see England throughout half the kings from here to Hastings).
The real world is NOT the same as a fantasy realm, real people do much worse things for much less gain. Hell, people have invented tortures that WoTC couldn't print in a D&D book, sometimes to punish people for believing in a different creator than them who might or might not exist. In many fantasy realms people are too scared of being "evil" to consider the many forms of immortality. Christ, if any one of those existed in real life people would be murdering each other to get their hands on it.
Basically your chart sucks bruh
>>48068615
And then at the end, when all is lost for him, he resurrects himself
>>48068650
Also, if you read Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy, he's a lot more in favor of democracy and republics than the Prince would lead you to believe.
People just judge him entirely on the Prince because it's shorter and easier to read (as it would be, as he made it for an actual Prince who he probably had a low opinion of).
>>48068210
Copypasted makes it sound like a bad thing. It's basically the closest thing to a national epic you can get from a British Catholic writing in the early-mid 1900s.
>>48066673
Leto would be pretty hard to implement as the villain for a campaign. He's practically omniscient, for one. His character can be summed up as "all according to keikaku".
The point of Leto's Peace is to make everyone that isn't directly in his service a bunch of powerless, mediocre, emasculated pieces of shit for several thousand years so that a hatred of tyranny and centralized power structures will be ingrained into the whole of the species' genetic memory. It's mentioned that anyone strong enough to gather the strength of will to oppose him in those conditions has his beliefs torn apart at their core, if not downright mindraped by being shown the Golden Path like he does with Atreides descendants, and is integrated into the government. The PCs would most likely fit into that unless they want to play a one-shot about how a Fish Speaker fucks them in the ass with a strap-on for 3 hours while they quietly look to the stars wondering if the world was always that awful
>>48068615
I just like the idea of a villain who's so utterly devoted to their cause that they are willing to DIE in order to ensure that their endgame is successful. Such a person can't be bargained, reasoned or negotiated with. It's like a perfect combination of a Knight Templar villain and a Force of Nature villain
I pulled a similar gambit withInquisitor Soldevanin Dark Heresy 1st edition.Soldevan manged to decode the true nature of the Tyrant Star. It was the harbinger of the birth of a new Chaos God.MalalSuch an event would have cataclysmic repercussions for the Imperium. After all, the birth of the last Chaos God tore open the Eye of Terror and destroyed the Eldar civilization. If the prophecy of the Hereticus Tenebrae was to be beleived, it would mean the collapse of the Imperium and the doom of mankind. The only hope was to confront this new dark god in its infant form and force it into a pact. Forcing the dark god to leave the galaxy for another. In effect, Soldevan planned to willingly damn himself in order to save the Imperium from certain doom.Like any good Inquisitor, Soldevan was deeply paranoid. He did not trust any of the other members of the Tryantine Cabal with what he had learned. In his mind, ensuring the success of his plan meant eliminating anyone who could possibly interfere with it.Including the PC's own Inquisitor Vownus Kaede.
>>48068643
>bottom one makes the least compelling villains, but the most badass villains
a villain being compelling and a villain being badass are two very different things. It's just as easy for a villain to be both as it is for a villain to be neither.
>top is not a villain
Ever read Watchmen, anon?
>>48068650
The prince was meant to be a satire, an indictment of the plotting and backstabbing which dominated the nobles in Italy.
You goofed.
>>48068777
It is hard to implement good villains, yes.
>>48068844
This meme is about as bad as needing Renaissance-era mathematics to navigate boats when the coast wasn't visible.
Jon Irenicus.
https://youtu.be/Wdy-k_qLdQg
>>48068867
http://www.jstor.org/stable/41208453?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Memes can't back themselves up with reputable sources, you fucking toad of a human being.
>Lord Draconis- A mighty warlock who has delved into the darkest depths of magical knowledge, and intents to use his knowledge to step into the realm of lichdom. Lives in a large flying tower
>Vann Doran- Barbarian warrior of great merit, taken in by a local king who saw great potential in him, and trained by his guards and knights, eventually killed the city guard and tore through the royal knights, abandoning the kingdom that took him in. Wanders the land in a suit of menacing armor, searching for battle.
>Kieng Dragn- A dragon, given the moniker King of the Dragons (which is where it took it's name) Desires to break the bind of accursed substance that traps all dragons in their bodies. Has the power to control the hides of dragons (In setting dragons are shape shifting horrors)
>Ink Burner- A mysterious young man who possesses the power to erase true-names and undo form. Holds a desire to undo all of creation
>Warlord Baska- An Orc warlord who possesses unnatural aptitude for tactics
>>48064605
Dr. Demento
Superhero campaign, one of the PC's voluntarily got sealed into a sub dimension where he was basically immortal, to seal a pair of ancient evil gods with him. the character made a deal with some sort of fate witch or another, broke out.
Freshly tortured by evil gods and bound by contract to protect the order of the world, uses a combination of super science and magic to invent some crazy awesome new stuff. Becomes convinced he can only maintain order and peace by domination.
Teams up with Robos, the Robot King of Sweden, and Ravus, the Dark Sorcerer. They invade Not!NYC with fleet of airships, cyborg super-soldiers, and radioactive robot T-Rexes.
Ended up being combination of Cobra commander, Dr Doom, and Krieger from Archer.
Last time we played that campaign he was caught by the team in the secret science vault underneath the home of the owner of WWE, stealing back and destroying imitation cloning technology the players accidentally stole from him for the US government.
Sorry for going on so long, but... I'm rather fond of Dr Demento.
![59%20%288%29[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/41RPy0B.jpg "59%20%288%29[1].jpg")
Saturday morning cartoon evil fun villains a best no matter what the edgelords say.
>>48064605
I want to make a villain who follows the PCs out of desire for vengeance or similar, not in order to try to kill or kidnap or hurt them at every opportunity, but from a distance to study them and their alliances, in order to do things to distance them from their allies, to put their allies in debt to him as well by helping them so they become torn between debts, or to make their allies too busy with other matters (like invading orcish hordes) to help the PCs, until the PCs stand alone with their secrets laid bare and he can move in for the kill. A shadow, whose manipulations aren't evident until the PCs have to backtrack their steps and find out they've been abandoned in their time of need by those they've helped.
>>48067908
There is an example from Heroes of Horror which I rather liked: a nobleman on a quest to find a cure for his daughter's illness, willing to kill anyone and do anything to get it.
What's a good motivation for a age-old and recently-resurrected necromancer?
>>48069408
"man, I wonder what the guys are up to"
>>48069408
All he wants is to recreate the land of his youth as best he can, so he must enslave or destroy everything in the surrounding lands and reform it to be the way it was thousands of years ago. He makes the living dress and act in ancient ways, and summons phantoms from the past.
Yes, I've been reading a lot of Clark Ashton Smith lately.
>>48068844
http://www2.idehist.uu.se/distans/ilmh/Ren/flor-mach-mattingly.htm
Satire doesn't mean false, dumbshit, and yes Machiavelli was much more a republican than an advocate for tyrannical methods.
>>48067325
Palestinians.
>>48067724
---------------> /pol/
>>48066328
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO8To_XZsFE
>>48064605
>Posts a thread asking people's opinions
>Creates bias immediately by posting one of a million stupid fucking charts tiering things.
>>48068719
He didn't make that book for Princes. Anyone with an education would already know everything that was in that book, and the only people with access to formal education were the ruling classes.
The reason that people gave Machiavelli his reputation, throughout history, is because he said that the pope could have managed his shit better, when the pope was infallible and that was heresy to say.
>>48069958
Machiavelli was an advocate of a stable, unified and above all lasting government. If that government happened to be ruled by a tyrant so be it.
>>48064658
>t. Plebian
:^)
>>48066009
He's saying he likes villains people can sympathize with. Villains with 3-Dimensional agendas are good villains tbqhwyf.
ie.
>"I'm so evul and i going to burn down le town for le moneys! xDDD"
Vs.
>"All that I love hath withered in plague, while I, but man, am no God to save that which I love with bleeding palm. If time but a yoke, I would hoist thy burden upon thy back and undue the fields of nature; yet man am I to be victim. Thus, with primal beating of human willingness, Devil shall I become."
>>48066328
>>48072073
holy fuck you got him bro
>>48066796
A lot of Disney movies (especially the newer ones) have had some pretty Patrician-tier kino for villains.
>Big Hero 6
>Lion King
...Um...There are others, but yeah. Those two have some pretty well thought out villains in them.
Well written and fun villains, such as Pagan Min, who arguably did nothing wrong.
>>48064605
The personification of the concept of tyranny laughs at your shitty tier list. What matters is not a villains motives, but how well he or she is written.
>>48068330
Sounds like it makes for a good movie, but if you're looking at it from a "tier" point of view, it's objectively Disney-tier.
Doesn't mean it wouldn't make for a good story though. Just means the motivations behind the character don't seem very, uh, emotionally critically.
>>48071964
>when the pope was infallible
The pope being infallible is a 19th century thing, m8.
>>48072241
He did plenty of things wrong, it's just that the alternatives were just as bad, if not worse, than him.
>>48064672
>Supreme Ultimate God Tier SSS+
>Villains who are voiced by Tony Jay
>>48066447
I'm pretty sure most people would think fighting to keep slavery going makes you the bad guy.
>>48069188
this is pretty good. because it makes sense.
>>48072351
Accurate
>>48072272
No it isn't. The concept existed long before it was formalized by the Church. And not anything the Pope says is infallible, he's only infallible when speaking ex cathedra, which has been done only twice since it was made official and only a handful of times before that. The idea is that god wouldn't let the Pope be wrong. It's only used to put theological issues to rest, the Pope has never declared himself the immortal God-Emperor of Mankind
>>48073987
I just realized I capitalized God in God-Emperor but not on the other sentece. derp
>>48066483
Goddamn Transcendent Tier right there
"A pile of little arms... I never want to forget it"
>>48068907
>1958 article
You need to update your political science shit, anon.
ITT: OP pushing his shit taste on others
>>48071964
Right, so the fact that he dedicates it to Lorenzo de Medici in the book and had it sent to Lorenzo while he was in power, means that it wasn't for Princes. Ok. Also, the book wasn't published until Machiavelli died. Meaning that Machiavelli didn't write it for anyone else that Lorenzo. Check Machiavelli's letters to his friend Vettori for more info on the writing of The Prince.
You are right that Machiavelli's reputation comes from Scholastic censorship. You might want to add that Shakespeare did a lot awful more to popularize "Old Nick" as the Devil himself.
>>48065740
>All that build up and story for a such a shitty "lel randumb" pay off
Thats ignoring the fact that the party could probably revive her, considering they have a whole city under their control and a high level wizard.
>>48075360
Not him, but but it still doesn't change the fact Prince was written as fucking mockery.
I don't know, did you EVER bothered in your life to read anything from Machiavelli? A staunch republican that all out of blue writes a book about being backstabbing noble going for the power. Rings you a fucking bell?
>>48075424
Y'all mothafuckas need Skinner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH-NxQmf87k
OR
Renaissance Values are not the same as our own.
PS: I have read almost all of Machiavelli's work. The Prince has ironic tones, but it's not a satire. If you want Machiavelli's satirism, read his comedic plays. Also, please note that the "republican heroes" he mentions in the Discourses are about as fucked up as the Princes he so often "mocks".
http://political-science.uchicago.edu/faculty-workingpapers/McCormick---Machiavellis%20Greek%20Tyrant%20as%20Republican%20Reformer.pdf
>Elder God Tier
>>48075515
>Anglosaxon political discourse
>"That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithfullness."
>>48066328
e.g. Jubal Early
Yeah good taste
>>48075597
Got you covered, senpai:
http://www2.idehist.uu.se/distans/ilmh/Ren/flor-mach-cassirer.htm
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/jbell/strauss.pdf
In your next post, try criticizing instead of greentexting.
>>48066111
Adrian Veidt's motivation was ultimately vanity.
>>48064605
Just remember, anyone who thinks Machiavelli was anything but a RAWfag who was compensating for a small dick is probably a shitty person.
>>48066561
Christopher Lee is never pointless
>>48064605
>FB_IMG
Get your Kikebook shit outta here!
>>48075739
I don't think it can be summed up so simply. He wouldn't have done it if he wasn't vain, nor would he have done it if it didn't need to be done.
>>48064605
I have three major antagonists now.
One is a guys who knows the weird Magic the players knows is basically mentoring them so he can kill them at full power and get his weird murder boner off. He's also a total bastard with no respect for human life, kills guys left and right due to boredom. The players know that once they get powerful enough he's going to hunt them so they're tenuously allied with him.
The second is the players assassin brother whose also a lot like murder boner guy. He's trying to convince his brother to give up on the other player and head into murder boner life like him.
The their is the guy whose spending all his families money on finding and kidnapping half demon children so he can use them to power machines and make himself rich and powerful
Regardless of tiers, you know your BBEG is on the right path when you're thinking about his/her/its story and you hear this in your head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePRZC_OulYc
>>48068833
>Ever read Watchmen
nope. what's it about
This guys tier-list makes me sad. "Great Tier" should be renamed "Griffith Did Nothing Wrong Tier." The pic-creator just has a hard-on for morally grey villains, a meme that won't seem to die anytime soon
The real "Elder God Tier" is the "Eldritch God Tier," villains who are either infinitely more complex than humanity, or so utterly different that they can not be understood. Like a fly, trying to comprehend a man with a flyswatter. He could never guess at man's true intention, or the depth of our lives when compared to the insignificance of his own, just as we cannot hope to understand a fraction of an eldritch being's mindset or purpose.
>>48072241
>>48072293
the best course for the country was pure AJ. you just ruined it by getting down in the dirt and throwing your shit around with all the other monkeys
>>48075679
>jubal early
jubal isn't even the best representative of that sort of villain in his own damn universe
>>48064605
So, Trump is shit tier villain?
>>48064605
Let me fix this chart for you
>Elder god tier
Well written villains with good complementary heroes to battle them and plenty of screen time to explore their personalities and motivations
>Great tier
Well written villains
>High Tier
Well written villains who didn't get the exploration or screen time they deserved
>Mid Tier
Poorly written villains but with good complementary heroes to battle them who aren't explored to gratuity despite how badly written they are
>Meh Tier
Poorly written villains
>Shit Tier
Poorly written villains who get way too much plot focus despite how badly written they are
>>48064605
Magneto.
Scarred forever by genocide, thinks the humans will try the same thing v. mutants, and he's right.
>>48076200
Anon, stop being reasonable in a shitposting thread.
>>48076200
bonus points if you give us examples of each tier.
>>48075920
>morally grey villains, a meme that won't seem to die anytime soon
There's having personal preferences... and then there's just calling something you don't like a meme.
> villains who are either infinitely more complex than humanity, or so utterly different that they can not be understood
That's not much different to an insane antagonist. And to be fair - a better half of Lovecraftian Elder Faggits are quite insane in every possible and impossible sense of the word.
>>48065937
An edgelord.
>>48078289
I already made a post about how that image is not edgy, but rather alright for a character who's Evil on principle (an idealist of Evil), and performs that whole shtick to bring his allies to the realization of what are the real consequences of their choices, and how they are too weak to face them, just hiding behind a facade of apathy and mustache-twirling while carrying on with the actions even more inhumane than what he did and never really growing to understand how every life they ruin is as beautiful and precious as the one of that girl, and how they are not truly capable of seeing such beauty in it's whole and still choosing to extinguish it, meaning that they are the real posers getting high on edgy shit so that they never have to come to terms with their internal conflict.
>>48078479
>Everyone's happy
>Fuck it up for literally no reason
No, you stupid little shitstain. No matter how many words you vomit onto the page doesn't change that it's edgy as shit for no reason other then to fuck with people.
Fuck your garbage self-justification bullshit.
>>48078978
>Fuck it up for literally no reason
He's Evil. Fucking with other people can be literally this characters' life motivation.
Where does pic related rank?
>>48076212
>>48081181
On the awful list in the OP? Nowhere. It's a very awful list.
>>48072241
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCJBOZC7XdQ
>>48068951
Dr. Demento is a comedy DJ, though.
execution > concept
stop thinking in terms of archetypes
>>48067678
Jacques de Aldersberg is literally my favourite antagonist of all timeThe fact he is Alvin and Geralt's mentoring helped make him who he is was fucking amazingThat sword is for monsters.
>>48081245
What about in your opinion?
>>48068867
He wrote The Prince shortly after having his arm broken by the goons of some official who he had pissed off. I'm pretty sure it was satire.
>>48064605
I like it when the villain is actually the good guy.
I like it when everyone is the villain
>>48066111
>Vauclair
>Hard to find fault in
Genocide. So hard to find fault in, wow.
>>48083064
!You can't just throw people out of helicopters!
>>48064605
That's a dumb list, it's basically "the best villain is not a villain".
Sure, a good guy can make a good villain, but you're literally measuring the quality of a villain by how good they are and that's retarded.
And the fuckin irony with "Elder God" tier. Fucking Elder Gods do not have relatable motives what the fuck they're completely apathetic to human sensibilities
>>48064605
My favourite type of villians are the ones, that take advantage of how the public percieves them, the one that makes the public believe he ir the good guy
Also the ones that study the weakness of the heroes to gain an advantage over them
>>48083019
He was jailed and tortured for three weeks, then exiled
>>48068899
Irenicus did plenty wrong and for a reason that's not even "more power" but because "muh evil sister WANTED me to do it", he wasn't even manipulated or anything. He fucked up and the cutesy little love plot he had wasn't enough to paint him as a tragic villain
>>48075419
Actually the ending was pretty obvious, it was an evil campaign and he rightfully pointed out that it would be far more evil to kill a character with a background.
>>48076200
hey this thread is for retarded faggots only gtfo
>>48068330
Started off sounding a lot like Deus Ex there.
Hidden protagonist is the best antagonist.
>>"If you think you can do this better, by all means 'hero', take the damn throne. You've so valiantly and are the rabble's darling you haven't seen the true picture. Good luck, now just shoot me and get it over with.
>>48072359
>there are people who actually believe this is what it was about
Do you Americans really not know your own history?
>>48086470
It was about states' rights.
To own slaves.
>>48086477
It was far more than that, idiot. It was about the right for the American states to make their own decisions, given what being a "state" actually meant.
The lines between "Free" and "Slave" state were blurred far more than what the typical narrative tells. Blacks had more rights in some of the "Slave" states than they did in the north.
>>48086415
>tfw the only redeeming factor of Fable 3 was how good of a character Logan was
>>48076200
>>48076213
>>48076628
>>48086362
Define "well written"
>>48087123
"not fiction"
>>48075679
You mean the Operative from the film. He even outright states that he does monstrous things for a "better world" that he will have no place in
>>48076200
Perfect example of shit tier villain from your chart: Ramsay Bolton from GoT (the show). Basically perfect villain but in the worst way - expert duelist and swordsman, expert tactician and strategist, harem of beautiful women, and near the end of his plot, sheathed in preposterous plot armor. The showrunners clearly loved him and the in the end the only way he was defeated was another sleazy deus ex machina.
>>48067131
What the Fuck why is there every two Word Capitalized in the Name of what Why?
Is he a 12 years Old? Can't take somebody Seriously when they Write like a Moron.
>>48086561
Logan did nothing wrong.
>>48064605
player met DM in secret and wanted to be the villain. worked for a few months making his back story and gaining levels while plotting to make himself king of a small kingdom. secedes and the game starts. he plays a spy / assassin rogue who uses the party as cover. the king dose everything he can to gain power and ends up forming the roman empire. our first encounter with him was when we were in a city that an army turned up one day and layed siege. they built two palisades one to keep us from having a counter attack and one to defend there rear. after that everything went down hill as we got our asses kicked. started looseing party members and thay just keeped taking more land. thay used the military to take power when thay couldn't use other means. in the end we just kinda let them take over. we didnt really care if thay took over and the dm just made us fight them for no resin so no one cared. after that the dm just gave up and some one else took there rotation as dm
>>48085603
>Genocide
Dragons are not people, anon. You should not trust what they say.
>>48085603
Vauclair is an uncommon kind of villain, who actually put a little bit of thought on the fucked up thing he's doing, but you only need to dig a little deeper in his logic to find out it's a Bad Idea. He's only hard to find fault in if you never question videogame characters and assume he's infallible.
Whatever you call Sans in Undertale's genocide route. Heroic antagonist? That's the best one.
>>48064605
>motivations being the be all end all of what makes a villain good
>editing the image slightly so some people don't cotton on to the bait
People like you need to be ritually castrated
>>48087853
What I liked in Vauclair is that he was a genuinely sympathetic cool old guy, fighting a good fight and being rather sensible at that. His motivesand the post at the start of the chain mentions MOTIVES, not meansare sound and entirely justified. It's the length he's willing to go and borders he's willing to cross while getting there all because of his emotional drive that make up his flaw. And even then, he's well aware of how fucked up and faulty his plan is, and if you don't display blatant hypocrisy and manage to get through to him he eventually has it in him to admit his errors and turn away from a project that he dedicated the most of his life to.
That polylogue with him was one of the best I've ever seen in vidya, with sweet branching, lots of opportunities for roleplay, consequences of your choice of words and a great flow of discussion towards a sane and wise man's realization of his misguided efforts. 10/10 villain.
>>48064605
>machiavelli
>evil
Confirmed for having only a meme understanding of history.
>muh ends justify means
And there is no trace of this sentence in his writing, it was a mystification of some concepts he wrote in his De Princibatibus that was used to discredit him.
>>48075419
what >>48086339 said
The other players were just playing at being evil. They fetishized the idea of being evil without ever thinking of what evil means. So they basically just played cartoon villains whose evil deeds are so detatched from reality that they seem unreal.
Then the narrator comes along and shows them that they weren't capable of being evil when confronted with a world (or in this case, a character) that feels real. The players got squeamish about having to explain their evil to a *fictional character*.
Then the narrator comes along and kills her just to show that he was the only player to truly play an evil character.
>>48072073
Thinking motivation is what makes a good villain is about as pleb as it gets.
>>48064605
Cao Cao
>>48083064
HOY LA VICTORIA TIENE NOMBRE
>>48066561
t. Reddit
>>48075367
OP hasn't posted in this thread.
>>48067411
This, it's an aquired taste but it's the best one.
Euron Greyjoy seems to be a very unique BBEG even though he's composed of tropes and edge. I suppose it's because GRRM relied on human villains and realism for so long that you forget about villains who are just straight up evil. Then out of nowhere in the fourth book, the would-be lich BBEG turns out to be a red herring and the real villain of the story is some newly introduced edgelord pirate wizard king who decimates the protagonist's army that took 6 books to build. The author just randomly piles every magical power and artifact into Euron's hands and puts him on a clear path to acquire other artifacts that characters are carrying.
The story is so long that it has its own tropes, so GRRM throws a wrench in the system and his method of creating a unique villain in the setting is to make what would be the least unique villain in other settings.
>>48064605
>villain's motive determines how good they are
>their methods or personality are irrelevant
What a shit pic.
