So, I've been reading the Dark Angels codex. Do these douchebags have any redeeming qualities? I don't really just mean morally, because 40k, but including in a way that makes them interesting. Because the codex makes it out to seem like the Dark Angels have an obsession with the Falleb so strong, that it's single-minded to the point of comedy.
Do they do ANYTHING else? Even the events listed where it's mentioned they fight Orks or whatever, it'll later turn out that it was only just a cover to hunt for the Fallen; likely while leaving other Imperial forces to die (assuming the Dark Angels don't kill them themselves for even catching a glimpse of the Fallen).
What's the deal? Am I missing something or are they really that insane and single-mindedly dull?
That's really their main motivation. I'm not sure if their successors are this obsessed.
Nope, they are just that shitty. They have cool outfits though.
>>48044783
They're incredibly competent and have the best spies in the Imperium to the point the Inqusition still doesn't know anything other than sometimes they flake out. Fighting the fallen is their number 1 goal tied with defending the Imperium, and a big flaw is that they might sometimes choose the wrong priority. Otherwise they're fucking amazing marines who are incredibly coordinated, stubborn, tactical, and have whole hosts of options strategically.
They also really don't like the Space Wolves.REPENT MOTHAFUCKA!
>>48044918
>have the best spies in the Imperium
>>48044918
This
The Dark Angels lead a galaxy wide hunt for some of the most dangerous types of Chaos marines that exist leading to them working so hard that they have kept the ENTIRE inquisition from finding out (though I think the Grey Knights know but whatever) AND they do all this while literally being one of the best Space Marine chapters period, rivaled only with the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Ultramarines.
They have the best Bike company of all Space Marine chapters (suck it White Scars), the best first company of any chapter (suck it Ultramarines), can literally reform their legion at a single command from the chapter master via the Unforgiven chapters and their line companies perform with near perfection. Remember only the 1st and 2nd companies really know of the Fallen and are hunting them, the rest are just ass kicking marines.
The whole gimmick of the Dark Angels is that to the Imperium they are pretty much the perfect Space Marine chapter. To the reader they are supposed to be able to see beyond that perfection to find a chapter that is constantly struggling with their past and the shame of their former brothers actions. This would lead them to do terrible things to keep their secret, even though to an outsider they seem perfect in everyway.
It used to make a lot more sense back before the HH black library series. the idea that a large number of fallen existed and the Dark Angels had a sizable proportion fall to chaos after the heresy used to MEAN something, because the idea that there were loyalists and traitors from every legion was never explained back then. It made their actions more understandable. But now that we have shit like a 4th of the White scars turning, a portion of the Raven guard, and every legion losing a portion of their men to chaos at some point or another during the HH which leads to the impact of the fallen seeming too much of an overreaction and thus fucked up their motivations.
>>48045141
/thread
>>48044918
>and have the best spies
So they use normal humans for some tasks?
>>48045516
They don't, anon is pulling shit from his ass, the dark angels kill any non astartes he inner circle, even his own marines in "accidents", they literally killed one of their astropaths that received a message from a chaos lord about one of their fallen.
>>48045141
>It used to make a lot more sense back before the HH black library series. the idea that a large number of fallen existed and the Dark Angels had a sizable proportion fall to chaos after the heresy used to MEAN something, because the idea that there were loyalists and traitors from every legion was never explained back then. It made their actions more understandable. But now that we have shit like a 4th of the White scars turning, a portion of the Raven guard, and every legion losing a portion of their men to chaos at some point or another during the HH which leads to the impact of the fallen seeming too much of an overreaction and thus fucked up their motivations.
There also used to be Dark Angels stories that didn't involve the hunt for the Fallen, the most famous one being Deathwing, the story about space cherokee fighting genestealers. Nowadays though nobody wants to bother writing Dark Angel stories unless it involves the Fallen, in which case the DAs will inevitably act like dicks because hunting Fallen overrides everything else.
>>48046275
>space cherokee
I don't get why they gave them that flavor and not Raven Guard
>>48045141
>best Space Marine chapters period,
>>48044783DarkAngels
>>48045141
That actually makes sense. Expected another shitty b8 thread desu.
>>48045141
>they do all this while literally being one of the best Space Marine chapters period
They do more damage to the Imperium than good, killing or abandoning whole planets for a single fallen(that even some times might be helping the human settlers to fend off xenos and even chaos forces ) is not a "best of space marines", even the space wolves have a better reputation than those back stabbing bastards.
>>48044918
>incredibly competent
>have the best spies in the Imperium
>>48045141
>they are pretty much the perfect Space Marine chapter
>one of the best Space Marine chapters period
>rivaled only with the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Ultramarines
>are just ass kicking marines
Do the autistic DAfags actually believe this shit? Or are they just as delusional as their shitty chapter's inner circle, your sins will never be washed away in the blood of your heretic brothers, DA spend their time betraying their allies and washing self defecation stains from their robes whilst telling themselves they're the holiest of the holy, space marines were created by the emperor to protect and serve the imperium of man and uphold their sacred vows of loyalty, which the dark angels suck at doing, they are terrible exemplars for space marines, they are a renegade rogue team-killing band of heretical misfits, all their successor chapters are either in the emo fan club or wishing they were in the emo fan club, lastly, DAfags are all delusional unbridled autistic edgy newfagfaggot retards on one level or another.
A great chapter that upholds the ideals originally laid down by the emperor and serves and protects the imperium of man stoically and is loved by everyone except for IWfags is pic related
>>48046767
This anon speaks great wisdom.
>>48045141
>It used to make a lot more sense back before the HH black library series. the idea that a large number of fallen existed and the Dark Angels had a sizable proportion fall to chaos after the heresy used to MEAN something, because the idea that there were loyalists and traitors from every legion was never explained back then. It made their actions more understandable.
>>48046275
The way I've been interpreting the Dark Angels' "big secret" now is not really the civil war on Caliban and the Fallen themselves, but more the number of very questionable things they've done to try and hide those secrets.
It just makes them more interesting to me. Better than "FALLEN FALLEN FALLEN OMG CYPHER FALLEN!"
>>48047419
Didn't Cypher say that? That they were making a huge deal out of the traitors they had, where other legions made no such effort to hide that "shame", especially the WS, who had hundreds of marines that agreed with Horus or something like that (Sagyar Mazan?).
I don't have that pic, though.
>>48044783
Literally every single calibanite that was ever associated with the I Legion is complete and utter scum who should have been purged the moment they were found by the Emperor. The Lion, Luther, old Cypher, belath, nemiel, and any others I failed to mention (except zahariel, he might be one of the only calibanite worth keeping alive) all deserve to have bolts fired through their brainless skulls for all the trouble they caused/still cause for the imperium.
>>48047419
I'm a fan of the idea that where the Ultramarines struggle to be perfect and use their mastery of warfare to achieve it, the Dark Angels are gifted but have ruined their own glory trying to protect it. They would both be excellent chapters and the Dark Angels vying for position of top chapter in the Imperium, but their actions and attempts to guard their shame have made them almost as shameful.
>>48046767
To be fair the 'for a single Fallen' thing is not always the case. In Accept No Failure, Azrael refuses to Exterminatus Piscina IV even though both Asmodai and Belial came to him with suspicion of Fallen involvement because he did not want to cause issue with the Imperium.
>>48047419
Exactly, thats what annoys me the most about the chapter and it did so even BEFORE the other chapters were shown to have traitors as well.
Even without it being an issue of every chapter, it doesnt make sense to commit crimes (essentially treason) in order to hunt down those who committed treason so that other people dont find out that they did and once upon a time you two were from the same team.
>>48046386
Why would Raven guard get Cherokee? Raven guard is supposed to be Edgar Allan Poe
>>48048762
The whole feather thing I guess. Dark Angels already have that robe motif
>>48048103
>Nah lets not exterminatus this planet
>Not because of the loss of human life or resources, just because I don't feel like doing any paperwork
Yeah, fucking grade A Dangles.
back in my day Dark Angels were Arthurian Space Knights. they rode space horses (bikes) and fought literal dragons on caliban for fun. their fluff played up the arthurian angle of the chapter, what with the Primarch/King being betrayed by his best knight/Luther, and the Chapter/Camelot falling into ruin because it was tied to the health of the King/El'Johnson, until the remaining virtuous knights/loyalists completed their quest to find the grail/the fallen. that, combined with the robes always gave me the impression of an entire chapter of Grail Knights.
also i'm pretty sure their chapter master wields Excalibur.
>>48044783
> Do these douchebags have any redeeming qualities
Reavenwing lists are quite viable. Deathwing Knights are also very effective if you know how to use them.
>Do they do ANYTHING else
They kill the xeno, burn the heretic and suffer not the witch to live. Everything else is not your damn business, Astartes do not answer directly to any Imperial authority
>>48046767
>They do more damage to the Imperium than good
No, that would be Imperial Fists and their successors.
>>48045141
>which leads to the impact of the fallen seeming too much of an overreaction
It IS an overreaction. That's why it's their flaw, and not just a neutral characteristic.
>>48047504
I don't know if Cypher said it, since I'm not aware of him having any quotes; but I think the Fallen in Angels of Darkness accused the Dark Angels of that.
>>48049692
Let's be honest here, that's probably why most Inquisitors hold off till the last minute to order the ships to fire.
>>48051065
dark angels were oringinally native american, sorry anon, but 'back in your day' must've not been as long ago as you think.
>>48051915
The red indian slant only came about with the deathwing book, which was released in the early 90s. Some time after that it got sort of retconned into only being about one specific recruiting world rather than the DAs only one, alongside fluff about the new Belial & Sammael characters. The dark angels have only been singly native american for a few years at best.
>>48051915
One of the oldest DA models has the Teutonic knights feather helm.
They were always Knights AND INDIANS.
>>48044783
Only if you look at older lore. They fought Ghazghkull before he reached Armageddon, but that's not really brought up much.
I can understand why GW pushes it - it's a great reason for them to end up in just about any fight and fight just about anybody - but it really does get worn out.
Hey, I'm a DAfag, and I just want to say that having a favorite chapter means recognizing that your chapter is great, but also sucks.
>>48044918
They don't have the best spies. The only reason they're so good at tracking down the fallen is years of experience, and the fact that their Librarians can somehow track their gene-seed across space and time. Space Marines as a whole shun espionage, and even the Raven Guard prefer guerrilla tactics, not skulduggery.
>>48045141
They do hold themselves to an elite standard because 1st Legion, so the Chapter on a whole is prettty damn good. But the Fallen are not the most dangerous types of Chaos Marines to exist - some of them try to live peacefully, or barely survive on their own in hiding. Most don't conquer planets or anything.
The Ravenwing might be elite, and you might argue the Deathwing is the best first company because they have full Terminator armor, but the White Scars are still an entire chapter of Space Marines with long traditions of biking, and the Ravenwing has a high death rate. They've lost several Grand Masters in a row at a time.
The Imperium realizes that something is off about the Dark Angels - that much is clear throughout their codexes. They're mysterious, they keep to themselves, they're kind of scary. They just don't quite have the proof to prove that there is something wrong, and the Dark Angels still maintain a long battle record.
I agree more or less completely with your last paragraph though.
>>48052438
Please, everyone knows that they're Gay Native American Teutonic Knights of the Round Table Space Jews.
Though I really think they should give up the NA theme to the Raven Guard. They already keep little skull totems - might as well give them something aside from burds.
>>48052727
A rare example of a modest and well learned DA fag.
They got trcked into decimating the most loyal founding faction by the whispers of a minor warp entity, thats how fucking retarded the Dark Angels are.
Hopefully they'll drive the rock into a star to ensure their fucking retardation doesnt get any other loyalists killed.
Utterly pathetic
I fluff my "succesor" chapter out so that they hunt the fallen, but don't kill those fallen that can be redeemed. Instead swear their origin to secrecy and return them to active duty. Murder the shit out of any that have fallen to chaos.
>>48053630
>Utterly pathetic
If they manage to get other loyalists killed so easily despite being utterly pathetic, doesn't it make those even more pathetic?
>>48053674
>Murder the shit out of any that have fallen to chaos.
But anon, they all DID fall into service to the Ruinous Powers, during the Fall of Caliban. They all consciously rejected the Emperor's holy light, and pledged their allegiance to a damned world, a damned beast inhabiting it and an unholy overbuffed abomination that Chaos has turned Luther into. That goes about a dozen steps beyond any sort of redemption that leaves you alive. And then goes on a mile or two.
What next? Redeem Black Legionaries?
>>48053630
The changeling tricks even the chaos gods. Quit being such a faggot. That daemon is good at what it does.
>>48053756
> Trust your friend
> He stabs you in the back
> PADEDIC :DDDDDD
Maybe if the antag was a character out of some shitty battle shonen
>>48052727
>#notallFallen
Not that I don't believe you, but do you have any source/explanation for that? I'd get those that arrived in matterium recently, but to survive for a longer period of time everything other CSM have to, except you're alone and hunted by an entire Legion, makes you a pretty hard motherfucker.
>>48045516
I don't know a ton about dark angels in particular, but Space Marine chapters usually maintain a small army of human servants, so it's possible.
>>48052020
That books been retconned into an allegory that they tell initiates
>>48053980
> Trust your friend
Bullshit. Nobody trusts the Dark Angels, ever. That's the single most hammered point about them, ever - they are paranoid and make everyone around them paranoid, no one ever greets them with a warm embrace and instead all their allies constantly expect DA to abandon/turn on them.
So yeah, I'm calling the backstab approach complete and utter bullshit. It's more likely that entering full PURGING mode gives them Ultramar-grade plot armour.
>>48054462
> entering full PURGING mode gives them Ultramar-grade plot armour
Well, either that, or whoever they purge are indeed such insufferable weaklings that their mere inefficiency can be considered a treachery.
>>48054445
According to their fluff )from the 6th edition codex I think) they turn all failed aspirants into lobotomised servitors and use them in place of serfs so there is no chance of someone overhearing anything around them.
>>48054462
>Nobody trusts the Dark Angels, ever.
Except that IG regiment from Azrael's short story - they were so happy to fight alongside them you could see the betrayal coming a mile away.
>>48054409
It's not that they're gentle lambs or anything - they're just not the most powerful CSM out there. The only danger that the Fallen really present is those of a single Chaos Space Marine (admittedly of pre-Heresy stock), on top of the chance they could ruin the Dark Angels. They might manage to lead an army of cultists, or find a group of other Fallen and form a small warband, but more often than not they're alone.
Granted, some Fallen were Captains in their day, like Zeriah. Some Fallen were former Standard Bearers like Obidiah Hrakon, or Librarians. But there is also a chance that the Fallen in question is just an average line marine with at best 200 years of experience, and on top of that, the fact that the Fallen were scattered across space and time means that some may have been around since the first Fallen was caught, while others are only just returning to the materium. Some might take years to catch or millennia, while most are probably caught very quickly, since the DA and their successors spread themselves out and devote a lot of time to this search.
>>48045141
>the best Space Marine chapters period, rivaled only with the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Ultramarines.
I actually hate them as much as your average /tg/man, but the Void Poodles are objectively the best space marines after the GK.
There is a reason they were the Emperor's executioners.
My DA successor chapter lives on France in space, want to live up to their primarch's more noble traits, and try to be moderate on the whole "Fallen" thing. Good or not?
Can some of you fluff savvy DA lovers please explain to me what the Watchers in the Dark are (or at least what theories about them are currently popular)?
Are they some sort of warp beasts given that Caliban was a chaos infested shithole?
>>48057165
>objectively the best
no
OBJECTIVE LIST:
#1: Ultramarines
#2: Blood Angels
*power gap*
#3: Star Wuffs and Dank Angels
#REDACTED#: Gay Kites
>>48057452
They're aliens. Aliens who hate Chaos, and are the best Spanish guitar players in the galaxy. They seem fond of the Dangles, but the Dangles pretend they're non-existence. They have to warn new recruits not to mess with the Watchers or the recruit disappears forever. I don't know if all sons of El'Johnson get them or if it's just the parent chapter themselves.
>>48051322
That and calling Exterminatus is a really easy way to get on fellow Inquistor's shit list.
Which is an easy way to get excommunicated and lose your Inquistor title (and your life)
>>48053630
>minor warp entity
>The Changling
Pick one.
>>48054811
To be fair, the IG are probably happy to fight along side ANY Space Marine chapter.
>>48057629
Yeah, real sorry we ate most of your friends. No. Seriously. We didn't mean to or wanted to. It's a condition we have, and we try to control it. Your commissar shouldn't have bathed in sweet and sour sauce.
>>48057679
>Be eaten by vile xenos and increase their biomass.
-or-
>Be rescued (and eaten) by the Emperor's own Angels of Death.
It's what the Emperor would've wanted. The Flesh Tearers are just doing their part to weaken the Tyranids.
>>48045051
Well now you know why they call themselves "Alpha legion" when 1st chapter is Dark Angels.
>>48045141
Was the Ultramarines 1st Company ever singled out as being good? Their most notable action was all dying at once at the northern polar fortress and spending centuries rebuilding.
>>48051322
>does the degree of guilt of this world versus the amount the Imperium cares about it justify the paperwork I will have to fill out
>>48057258
french dark angels rings pretty well with me anon, you did well replacing the green with blue, perhaps add some white?
>>48057258
I like it; fits the Catholic theme.
I decided to go with a bit of a Greco-Persian theme. Which I know goes against the more Catholic style of the Dark Angels, probably more in line with the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, but I'm tired of 90% of the Imperium being Generic Europe, and I ended up splitting the Dark Vengeance set with a friend, so I'm working with what I've got.
>>48057608
It ain't a greater daemon friend
>>48057258
>france
>catholic
Fucking what?
>funny hats
>no berets
>sandwich boards
>not kiosks
>aprons
>no 'kiss le cook'
>sword
>not power baguette
Do you even cheese-eating surrender monkey?
>no firearms
Finally!
>>48057608
>1 of the 4 gods
>also-ran
Pick one.
>>48057452
They're part of the cabal, an ancient anti-chaos organisation that wanted to destroy humanity to weaken chaos. The first attempt major at doing this was to let horus win the heresy, believing that the infighting after which would weaken both humanity and chaos.
Nowadays they see the path humanity is taking as one that will lead to chaos winning overall and are trying to combat the decay that's happening amongst the imperium, as doing so directly combats chaos. It wouldn't surprise me if they pulled some deus ex machina thing which has it turn out that most major STC finds in the 41st millennium were because of the cabal.
Basically, the alpha legion are the most loyalist chaos dudes ever, with the dark angels only coming in at a close second.
>>48057452
HH Lore says that they're aliens that are part of the Cabal, but personally I think that's a little stupid since the DA already have enough heresies. The fact that nothing is said about how they survive or if they even exist outside of the Rock convinces me further that they're probably just a manifestation of the DA's guilt - or maybe they were aliens that existed on Caliban, but their presence lingers on like ghosts. If they're warp-tainted beasts like the rest of Caliban's monsters, that would make some sense, because the Warp is strongly tied to emotion, and the Rock still has some fucking strange energies about it in places.
Either way, the Watchers are small figures who are rarely seen by most of the chapter, most often being seen working for or accompanying high-ranking Dark Angels, especially of the Inner Circle. Somehow, they're closely related to the secret of the Chapter, and are deeply involved in choosing the next Supreme Grand Master - the Supreme Grand Master, i.e. Chapter Master, is usually chosen by the last SGM, but it's the Watchers in the Dark that present him with the Lion Helm and Sword of Secrets, and lead him through a spooky gate called the Arch of Truth. Some unspoken test goes on in there, and there have been occasions where the would-be GSM doesn't come back out. Somehow, their approval is necessary for whoever will be GSM. Those few that they follow that aren't GSM are known to be destined for greatness in the Chapter.
Otherwise, they mostly just bear relics, care for equipment, watch mysteriously, and make sure Lion El'Jonson's sleeping soundly.
>>48061196
I couldn't think of a proper gun to give him. There wasn't an option for a hand flamer.
>>48044918
>best spies
I'm sure a 9 foot tall musclebound, murderously fanatical zealot will be very inconspicuous
>>48060707
Mind posting pictures? Krumpsalot demands it.
>>48057629
I know there have been some Chapters so horrible commanders have refused to request aid from them, like the Angels of Redemption (the worst DA successor in my opinion - the guys who run away in the middle of battles to hunt a Fallen, and are totally willing to teamkill.)
>>48062991
I'd like to, but this is all I have so far, which is from me testing a paint scheme. I was planning to go with grey to kinda base them off the Guardians of the Covenant, but I didn't like how they grey made them look like unpainted plastic; so, I'm going with the above red scheme.
I may still keep that scheme for my Ravenwing equivalents, although with a darker grey.
>>48047504
>>48051261
Yes, he said it. I will try to look for it.
>>48064769
>‘It was not the turning of the Fallen that sealed the fate of the Dark Angels for ten thousand years. If you could see with eyes undimmed by the lies of your forebears you would know the truth, see the last ten millennia for what they are. Nearly half of the Legions joined Horus. They have been forgotten, their memory denied to the common people of the Imperium, their primarchs half-whispered names of devils and slain traitors.
>‘And there were those within the Legions recorded as loyal defenders of the Emperor that did not remain true to their oaths. They split with their brothers and gene-fathers, for Horus or personal gain, or were tricked into selfish acts by promises from the agents of the Dark Powers.’
>‘There is rumour of such in the oldest annals,’ said Azrael. ‘It does not compare to the crimes of the Fallen.’
>‘No, it does not. But also, the fact that your ancient records contain such knowledge proves that the other Legions that suffered such treachery in their ranks were of no mind to conceal it. Those that remained loyal used the evidence of deserters and defectors to reinforce their dedication to the Emperor. But in the annals of the Space Wolves and the Ultramarines, in the spoken mysteries of the White Scars and the halls of records on Baal Secundus, where does it speak of the Fallen?’
>‘Nowhere!’ Azrael was alarmed by the thought that the Dark Angels great secret might be known to anyone outside the Unforgiven.
>>48064798
>‘A secret kept for ten thousand years. Not strength drawn from division, but shame. A shame multiplied every day by your denial to the Imperium and yourselves. The crime for which you must atone is not the turning of the Fallen, but the decision to conceal it. That first lie, that the Dark Angels had remained loyal, told to the primarchs of your brother Legions. Years later, a second lie, even greater than the first, told to your own warriors. When I returned to warn that the Fallen were not dead, I hoped for openness, but instead my news was greeted with distrust and secrecy. Every lie begets a new secret, every secret begets a new lie. If you capture all of the Fallen, if this moment I was to repent every sin I have knowingly committed against the Lion and the Emperor, your shame would not be ended. You carry it in your souls, not the Fallen.’
>Azrael resisted the urge to get up and strike the corrupted Dark Angel, and shook with the effort.
>‘Why do you take such umbrage at my words?’ said Cypher. ‘Dismiss them as the ranting of a Fallen. The seeds of doubt sown wildly by a traitor. You cannot argue, because in your soul you know what I say is true. Every warrior that bore your title, Supreme Grand Master, carries the guilt not of the Fallen but of every Chapter Master that has chosen a path of deceit rather than honesty.’
>‘And that would save us? To confess to ten thousand years of manipulation and secrecy? The Unforgiven would be declared Excommunicate Traitoris. Not even our cousins in the other Chapters would side with us. All of the Imperium and the Adeptus Astartes would hunt us down.’
>‘And your pride would force you to defend yourselves, rather than meekly accept your execution as you should. Deluded to the end that you were in the right, a curse on the Imperium spat from the lips of the last Dark Angel to die to a righteous blade.’
Basically, the Dark Angels made a big deal about something that's not a big deal.
>>48064696
I think you based like the GoCs too much.
>>48064989
I agree, which is also partly why >>48060707
is my new intended color scheme. I know red isn't a very Dark Angels color, but between the core DA colors of green, bone, and black, only green is the one I like; but I can't think of anything creative with green.
I'd like to do maybe green with gold lining and dark grey or black inserts, but that's the Salamanders.
>>48046767
No they don't. We've seen explicitly that a SINGLE Fallen is often enough to cause entire planets or SYSTEMS to fall to Chaos Taint. The Dark Angels serve as a self-healing mechanism, their constant hunt for the Fallen constantly burns out Fallen, thereby preventing greater damage to the Imperium from mass insurrection.
Also, Space Marines abandon mortals all the time. It's actually the "feel-good" Chapters that do more harm to the Imperium. Space Marines are a critical resource that only numbers a bit over a million. The likes of the Salamanders or Lamenters should be sanctioned for wasting the Emperor's Gene-Seed, ten thousand mortal men are not even close to the worth of a single Space Marine. Their lives are to be cautiously spent to buy the species more time to survive, not to save civilians who are ultimately worthless.
>>48047319
Instead of sperging with bait, howbout you actually name one time when Dark Angels fired upon loyalist Space Marines without valid cause.
Oh, and pic related doesn't even exist anymore, the Imperial Fists all got killed off during a mass tactical blunder that cost 999 marines.
>>48047988
>The Emperor
>Shooting his most loyal son
You are literally retarded anon. More than any other Primarch, the Lion was the most loyal and most obedient of all the Emperor's sons, more so even than Rogal Dorn. The Lion was surrounded by Chaos upon his arrival on Caliban, yet rebuked it all, and even told the Gods themselves to piss off as the only thing he desired was to serve the God Emperor.
Fuck the modern Lion is a borderline Mary Sue these days considering he's around as incorruptible as Sanguinius, possibly more so, the most tactically brilliant Primarch, the Primarch with the most areotech, the Primarch with the most generalized and adaptable Legion, and either as loyal or more loyal than Rogal Dorn. His only flaw is that he has crippling social disorders that render him and autistic shut-in only worsened when his first father figure, Luther, almost assassinated him and thus sent him into a paranoid spiral as he stopped trusting everybody but the Emperor.
>>48065147
I don't think the Inner Circle is going to send you a CD letter first since I used blue and grey with my color scheme.
>>48047419
>The way I've been interpreting the Dark Angels' "big secret" now is not really the civil war on Caliban and the Fallen themselves, but more the number of very questionable things they've done to try and hide those secrets.
I actually like to think of it as a lie gone too far.
They lied that anything happened on Caliban, so then they had to do a cover up, so then they had to try to silence anyone (like the Errants) who might know what happened, then they had to cover up those crimes (like killing Knights Errant), then they had to silence people who knew about THOSE crimes
Today the DAngles probably spend more time covering up their own crimes against the Imperium than actually fighting its enemies, in a tragic story of what can happen when you lie too much
>>48065666
Probably not. I decided to go with it because I realized that most other First Founding chapters don't really have a common color scheme among their successors; it really just seems to be the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels, of the chapters known. And even the former has some more divergent of the colors, like the Guardians of the Covenant.
So I just decided to go with the red. I like how it'll stick out more on the table, anyway.
>>48064798
>>48064828
See, this would've been a great message - a self-centered shame that's borne out of pride of being the First Legion, rather than actual legitimate fears of being seen as traitors - if Gav Thrope hadn't undermined it by having the modern Dark Angels being the cause of the past Fallen scattering in the first place.
>>48066516
I'll post the C&D once I get it. I call my chapter the Tundra Talons and I went for an artic themed color scheme.
Imageries of dreams reveal a gracious age:
Black armour, falling lace, and altar lights at morn.
The courtesy of saints, their gentleness and scorn,
Lights on an earth more fair, than shone from Plato's page:
The courtesy of knights, fair calm and sacred rage:
The courtesy of love, sorrow for love's sake borne.
Vanished, those high conceits! Desolate and forlorn,
We hunger against hope for the lost heritage.
Gone now, the cavern work! Ruined, the golden shrine!
No more the glorious organs pour their voice divine;
No more the frankincense drifts through the Holy Place:
Now from the broken tower, what solemn bell still tolls,
Mourning what piteous death? Answer, O saddened souls!
Who mourn the death of beauty and the death of grace.
Lionel Johnson is a pretty good choice for the motifs of the HH, imo.
>>48045141
I'm guessing the thing with the Dark Angels and the Fallen is that they're the Loyalist Legion who had the largest amount of Marines turn Traitor in addition to their entire homeworld. Not to mention they lost said homeworld because of those actions.
Other Legions may have had Marines turn Traitor, but it was probably not in great numbers because the Marines that ended up going against their Legion were stuff like garrison forces and far flung fleets.
Maybe it takes away from the Dark Angels a bit, but it also makes a lot more sense than saying that only the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, and Dark Angels had Marines who went against their own Legions and the other thirteen remained insanely loyal regardless of whether they were part of the main fleet or stuck in the middle of nowhere.
>>48044783
Dark Angels represent Israel, which means they will probably kill you and steal your money. Just look at every one of their names except the bug chaser Lionel Johnson, they're all figures from the Jewish bible or Jewish mythology: Azrael, Naaman, Asmodai, Ezekiel. It's also why they're the first chapter. Judaism predates Christianity and they were the first people chosen by God. Oy vey!
>>48065482
>fired upon loyalist space marines without valid cause
you dumb team-killing heretical nigger, firing upon loyalist space marines never has valid cause
>pic related doesn't even exist anymore
>Imperial Fists all got killed off
>tactical blunder that cost 999 marines
they got wiped out due to their entire chapter being committed to a galactic-empire destroying force by bureaucrats, the high lords ordered the entire chapter to fight at that world, refusing an order from the high lords is heresy, and even then they did a pretty damn good job at it: they survived having their whole fleet (save the Phalanx and its ships) and much of their ground forces being ripped apart by gravitational upheavals that were unpredictable, built a fucking fortress out of alien city-flesh and rock where they made a glorious last stand, the Imperial Fists held true to their vows and died honourable and bad ass deaths, even though people speculate the Fists Exemplar takes over, I doubt it, they have plenty of Imperial Fists gene-stock, and even if they did get replaced who cares? It has only been 2k years since the second founding, there won't be any gene changes really and they are all sons of Dorn just wearing different heraldry and having different combat and cultural creeds, genetically they are practically still the same
tdlr; you are a dumb DAfagcuntrag who supports a heretical chapter (more like warband) that team kills for stupid reasons and is full of pretentious faggots, the biggest dicks of the old legions that nobody else likes, and who suck almost as much cock as the furries in power armour do
>>48068770
>you dumb team-killing heretical nigger, firing upon loyalist space marines never has valid cause
10/10 would crusade with
>>48065554
I'm pretty sure Lorgar, probably the most evil and rotten primarch there ever was, says that the only primarch that could never be corrupted was Sanguinius, Lionel was loyal af, but he was autistic loyal, like Dorn, and I doubt he was more than Dorn, Dorn was so loyal that his loyalty defined him.
>>48068927
my nigga, son of Dorn broFIST!
>>48068950
Also Curze who hated Dorn said to Lionel that Dorn was perfect in loyalty during their little Thramas Crusade chat.
>>48068770
>firing upon loyalist space marines never has valid cause
Space Wolves having a daemon infested Homeworld threatening to subsume the whole system into chaos warpfuckery is valid cause.
>>48069191
>saying space wolves are loyal
the space yiffs are just as heretical as you robe wearing faggots: they go against the high lords and the inquisiton, are mutants, they're hardly shining examples of being loyal, theyre just allowed to exist because they help the imperium of man, like the mitochondria/chloroplasts in a eukaryotic cell.
>>48069191
Also attacking the yiffs is the best thing your shitty chapter has ever done, hopefully, if we're all lucky, the two shitty chapters will wipe each other out.
>>48069253
Space Marines are supposed to go against the High Lords and Inquisition- they're Adeptus Astartes and are descended directly from the Emperor himself, and answer to him. As the Beast series as shone the Emperor's ideal dream to install the High Lords has ultimately failed- they're incompetent and completely ignorant- the only ones being of any use is the Representative of the Inquisition and the Fabricator General, and the Fabricator is less trustworthy than the Dark Angels and the Inquisition is the Inquisition.
Not to mention that if we want to get really heretical, as the Emperor is indeed the God of the Warp the Ecclesiarchy claims after millennia of worship and installation on the Golden Throne, the Astartes as his direct lineage are holy. They truly are his divine angels, and that word carries greater weight than those of any mortal.
>>48069455
The Inquisition has the authority of the Emperor.
Dark Angels are cool and interesting and can be viewed from more than one angle, which part of their whole shtick. End of discussion.
>>48069508
Which only makes them equal to Astartes.
>>48067243
He's a classic Romantic poet - a bit overemotional and baroque, but with a good sense of rhyme and how things should sound, with deep ideas about higher planes of emotion to stretch to. There's also a wistful love of the middle ages and simpler times. And Lionel has a bit of a Gothic twist, since he was Catholic and struggled with his homsexuality because of that.
>>48069782
That's wrong, you moron.
>>48070067
No. If the Emperor is a God, then Space Marines being of his blood are divine. They were also in their creation, answering only to the Emperor. The Inquisition should only be on equal authority with the Astartes, and the Adeptus Astartes should be wholly divorced of Imperial organization like the Imperial Knights.
>>48070128
Chapter Masters answer to no authority but the Emperor, but the Inquisitors literally carry the authority of the Emperor.
A space marine doesn't have to listen to an Inquisitor, but technically, the Inquisitor does carry higher authority. We're not talking about "shoulds" or your head canon, we're talking about what the fucking rulebooks outright state.
>>48069455
the adeptus astartes were created to protect the imperium of man, the imperium of man is governed by the high lords which were installed by the emperor, same with the inquisition, both organizations have authority over the astartes so disobeying either is going against the emperors dream and heresy itself.
>>48070128
The inquisition are nearly tied with the rogue traders for highest authority in the Imperium, with the inquisitor being slightly higher. Under the law they can and have ordered entire space marine companies to do their bidding.
>>48070244
Fucking this.
The Space Marines might have a connection to the 'divine,' but they're still beholden to the laws of the Imperium on some level. Inquisitors can order Space Marines about as necessary, though most Space Marines prefer them to act polite about it.
If the High Lords order the Space Marines on something, they are supposed to do it, though usually Astartes get nominal independence in their duties.
>>48068770
Stay mad - stay yellow.
>>48069455
>They truly are his divine angels, and that word carries greater weight than those of any mortal.
It's formally true, but >implying anyone gives half a shit about hypocrisy in the Imperial dogma. And while, again, FORMALLY Astartes do not answer directly to High Lords, we know from Badab what happens when they straight out shit on the old farts' decisions.
>>48071146
Didn't the Badab War happen because the Astral Claws refused to send gene-seed tithes, and kept resources for themselves? I don't think the High Lords were even involved - just some Inquisitors got curious about heresy.
>>48070538
No, Astartes were created to reconquer the galaxy in the name of mankind for the Emperor. The High Lords were a later addition that came after the Astartes and have been royally fucking up throughout their existence, to the point that humanity almost got wiped the fuck out by Orks.
>>48045141
>a portion of the Raven guard
The ashen Claws didn't rebel nor were they traitors, Corax straight up tried to kill them despite them being completely loyal. He was a asshole to them and they put up with his shit far longer than they should have.
>>48047319
What's it like being unable to spit acid?
>>48048762
I 'spose so, I always thought they were the SAS as Space Marines
>>48071892
Has any marine ever used that ability? I forget they have it all the time.
>>48072112
Yes.
A dying captured space marine spits on Abaddon's face while was trying to comfort him.
There are plenty of stories of them using or commenting on it. For example, a Raven Guard who was captured by the Tau lament not having acid spit.
>>48072191
To me it's the weirdest thing about them. Humanity's defenders are rather inhuman.
>>48072206
Weirder than the ability of assimilating the memories of people by eating their brains?
>>48072221
Wow, that's some crazy Polynesian shit right there
>>48072221
not brains specifically, flesh and blood
That's where the flesh eaters and blood drinkers got their names. It's also why many chapters have elaborate blood-letting/drinking rituals, even ignoring the blood angels and their successors.
>>48044783
They are twisted version of their 30k ideals.
They were one of the best space marine legions,Lion was the second best candidate for the warmaster
Also believe it or not he was the most loyal primarch. When half of his legion betrayed him he just nuked the shit out of him instead of joining them like traitor legions did
"Modern" Dangles are not that good,but you gotta give them points for Azrael kicking Kharn's ass when he tries to mock him
>>48072251
>not brains specifically
So far from the fluff I read, it's only BRAAAINZ thet give the marine access to memory.
>>48072275
>from the fluff I read
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine
>Omophagea
Phase 8: This implant, also called "the Remembrancer", allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has led to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh.
this fluff has remained unchanged since '88
>>48066543
That's actually spot on. Hadn't considered that.
>>48072283
Brains give the strongest access to memory, it seems. You can use blood or flesh, but it's not as strong.
The first Ahriman book had a point where a sorcerer ate the gene-seed of a Space Wolf to access all his memories, but I'm doubtful on that one.
>>48071537
>Didn't the Badab War happen because the Astral Claws refused to send gene-seed tithes, and kept resources for themselves
That was a formal casus for declaring them Excommunicate Traitoris, and they literally took an entire important sector from Administratum control, refused multiple calls-to-arms from outside the sector, waged a literal warfare on the local Trade Lords and most glaringly - answered a direct personal appeal from the High Lords with "go fuck yourselves".
Astrartes hoarding shit, missing tithes and having direct conflicts with lesser subjects is not that much of a rarity - just a part of the antics of some chapters that the Terra is willing to tolerate, as long as SM's are ready to go full boyscout at the first sign of serious threat. Guron outed his chapter as a force in a direct and open opposition to Terra, which for High Lords means a glaring threat that will only grow worse by time. So Claws had to be spaceshark'd.
>>48072206
>Humanity's defenders are rather inhuman.
The conflicting themes of transhumanism and xenophobia playing out in the SMs is one of the actually good things in 40k fluff, and another reason I don't feel shame saying that it's a setting with sci-fi elements. And speaking from a MOUNTAIN of read sci-fi classics - our grimderp has one of the best takes on the issue. I'm serious.
>>48072221
>>48072237
>>48072251
>>48072283
Biologist here. It's... not as crazy as it sounds.
(cont.)
>>48072689
Current data on long-term memory mechanism suggests that it is based around macromolecules synthesis. McConnell experiments (from half a century ago, YAY SCIENCE!) give a very handy demonstration - he developed a basic reflex in a planaria (a flatworm), then homogenized it (with a blender) and fed the gore soup to other planarias. They developed the same reflex. So there's that. And given that the most efficient means of processing macromolecules are still the ones found in vivo - then if the hypothesis holds, any actual memory-reading system would be not an overly-complicated piece of machinery based around "reading mindwaves" or registering areal activity, but a system built around "digesting" biopsy samples using natural enzyme complexes - closer to a modern DNA sequencer.
So yeah, it's quite likely that of all the Astartes unique organs, Omophagea is one of the more REALISTIC ones.
>>48072689
The problem is that transhumanism and xenophobia isn't really looked at in Space Marines - most of the time they're considered heroes or Angels of Death, or are feared for more human reasons, like how the Dark Angels are so foreboding and secretive.
>>48072744
>The problem is that transhumanism and xenophobia isn't really looked at in Space Marines
it's not looked at from outside, naturally, as Imperium is an ultra-conservative (as in "keep up the status quo at all costs") totalitarian regime and discussions on the topic of it's main pillars is not a welcome thing, but the theme is well-developed from the inside perspective - of how Astartes themselves perceive their place within the humanity, of how they relate to it, how they are distanced from it, how they walk the line between human and inhuman in their line of work and what places them on this or the other side of that line.
(cont.)
>>48072997
It also gives a great example of genre synergy in fiction that I always use: Astartes, being mono-purposed expandable machines of warfare, are almost universally quite immature about their personal issues, simpleton and book-dumb on the subject. And due to that, even the blunt, clumsy attempts at reflection we see in fluff and BL combat fantasy publications actually do the issue justice - the issues and discussions are rough and blunt, but so are the minds that are concerned with them, and it is done in a way that does not belittle said minds and keeps them sympathetic for us, and that makes it so much more believable, as narrative does not trip over the problems of portraying the works of a "superior mind", overcomplicating the argument beyond the point of our care (LOOKING AT YOU HERBERT) or drowning in a characters emotional issues, all of which plague transhumanism fiction like holy fuck - Astartes provide as the perfect models for making the issue at hand simple and focused on without diluting it's meaning or believability. Another bullet 40k dodges is bias. I simply lost count of how many times the whole "discussion" of transhumanism by an "open-minded" author in a work of fiction boiled down to nothing but "WE MUST IMPROVE OURSELVES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE HOW PEOPLE CAN BE SO DUMB THEY FAIL TO REALIZE THAT THE BRAINDEAD SAVAGES". 40k avoids that in the way I absolutely love in my fiction - through conflict between a helpless mind and a silent entity infinitely greater and more moral in said mind's eyes. There's no "society of the tomorrow" to casually enforce specific ideas on Marines and there's no genius visionary to solve their issues with an armor-piercing five-page filibuster. There are only the silent dogmas of the Imperial Truth, that stand colossally before a sole fancy piece of Space Cannon Fodder, and nobody will ever help him to find a piece of mind with what he sees as holy and tears him apart.
(cont.)
>>48072997
>>48073057
That last part just reminds me of approach to moral conflict in classic Russian literature, and I can't help but appreciate something most of the classic and contemporary sci-fi commentary on the matter lacks so much.
Disclaimer - I absolutely do not argue that BL is somehow not shit. It's almost entirely complete shit quality wise, but my opinion still stands that the few good works they have, plus bits and pieces from around the rest manage to deliver a sweet and captivating outlook on an interesting and undying idea.
>>48071892
Saves the imperium money on cutlery, also, what's it like being a traitorous coward?
>>48071146
Stay heretical - stay green
>>48072275
Azrael barely survived kharn dude
Since I got nothing better to do does anyone mind if I talk about muh French Dangles?
>>48075532
He won and slashed his plasma pistol in half
Also it's Kharn. He's one of the best not-primarch sized melee fighting marines,he can't be killed by a guardsman with a brick
>>48075637
Pretty sure azrael was getting his ass kicked and had to escape the fight to survive at the end, he barely lived.
Does it ever bother anyone that the Dark Angels are the ones with the last Jetbike and not the White Scars?
>>48072112
In Soul Hunter, Talos blinded Callidus Assassin Martin Sheen with a hot acid facial, while in Prince of Crows, Sevatar spat out a hole in his prison cell, though he didn't use it to escape, just to mock his captors ("I think rats did it. Big ones."). Cloten in Bloodquest actually did chew his way out of imprisonment, before going on a Red Thirst-induced cultist-killing/eating spree.
>Imbedded within every pure Astartes was the capacity to generate acidic spit. In loyalist Chapters descended from flawed gene-seed, this ability was occasionally hindered, stunted or absent altogether. The Night Lords were not impure. At the Exalted’s obdurate display, Talos felt his saliva glands tingling, responding to his annoyance. With a whispered curse, he swallowed the burning venom, where it would dissipate harmlessly in his stomach acids. It stung on the way down his throat.
And here's some noble Dark Angels engaged in a good, clean, non-Fallen-related action.
>>48047504
To be fair the traitors from the WS never tried to overthrow Khan but were rather trying to convince him to join Horus. When he told them to fuck off, they all went on a suicide crusade.
>>48075637
HA
HAHAHA
No, Azrael did not win that duel you miserable lying piece of shit, Azrael got his ass beaten and nearly fucking died. Azrael DID have a chance to deliver a blow to Kharn so they would have both ended up killing themselves, but Azrael knew his role as Supreme Grand Master was more important to the First Legion and that he had to survive the fight. So he blew a hole in the floor with his combi plasma and ran the fuck away because Kharn always kills the people he duels. The closest he got to a "victory" was them mutually disemboweling each other, and knowing Kharn that probably wouldn't have killed him either.
But during the entire fight Azrael was struggling to survive, whereas Kharn was beating him like a red-headed child.
Azrael however DID beat Typhus in a duel, and almost killed him. But Typhus is definitely no Kharn.
>>48076651
Why would it? As the First Legion one of the main points of the Dark Angels is that they have a shitload of areotech. Honestly instead of plasma, we should all get volkites. It would make more sense.
>>48077151
>>48077151
Most of the 1st Founding Chapters have a lot of tech that most others don't have any more. And besides, I think it'd be near impossible for anyone to have volkites anymore, since they were getting phased out by the end of the Great Crusade anyway for the more affordable bolter.
>>48077253
Yeah but it would fit the theme of the Dark Angels hoarding areotech than plasma, which isn't all that rare really.
>>48077306
It's not as much that they have archeotech as much as they have the means to produce more tech than most chapters, because of the factories in the Rock. Sometimes, it's a really rare STC that no one else has anymore. But mostly it just seems to be plasma.
>>48077306
>yfw you love Bangles and Dangles
I got angles that Bangle and Dangle all the way along.
>>48077345
They have areotech. Rift Cannons for Emperor's sake, not to mention the "last" jetbike, and during the Horus Heresy they had access (and may still have access) to DAOT ships.
>>48077374
>>48062964
Chapter doesn't consist JUST of Space Marines.
>>48077411
Dark Angels pretty much do. I mean they've got serfs, but they sure as fuck don't tell them about the Fallen. Only the Inner Circle and Watchers know about that.
>>48077406
My jam.
>>48077435
Now that's cute as the sun is bright.
>>48077455
>>48077496
>>48077390
Archeotech, not areotech. And while they have some tech no one else has, that's not their theme. Most of that tech is more to help in their actual themes - capturing Fallen, the Ravenwing and Deathwing, stuff like that.
They already have a ton of shit going on - you can't force 'having ancient tech' as a theme in of itself when a lot of other chapters already have stuff other chapters don't have, and Iron Hands have far more right to that honor.
This thread made me realize qhy i love the Dangles. The DarkAngels are assholes without a doubt, with the occasional redeeming quality in a few. They had Interogattor chappy Boreas who killed himself and his squad to save piscina, then im another book they refer to his 'shame' or something like that. Astelan was right
>>48071892
He appears to be able to spit salt pretty well, maybe it compensates...
>>48077506
Poor Makari.
>>48077435
>>48077496
>>48077506
Welp, I've got a shameful new headcanon.
>>48077506
>>48077496
>>48077455
didn't Mimic 34 her?
Love their looks, hate their fluff.
>>48077882
The DA flaw is well elaborated on. Inner Circle largely understands how much of an overreaction it is at it's source, but keeps up the paranoia because they understand that this is what defines the Unforgiven now and makes them what they are. It's the understanding that of all the greatest threat the Imperium faces are no one else but themselves. Not the traitor legions, not the concept of treachery in general and not the Ruinous Powers that seek to corrupt them, but simply each and every individual Astartes to ever draw breath. No flaw is too small and no weakness is unworthy of attention, since the greatest battle for every marine is not in any of the Galaxies many devastated warzones - it's the eternal struggle against himself, his ever dwindling faith, his eroding morals and his mounting mistakes and regrets, which are bound to eventually take him is the death doesn't.
A marine's duty is to die in a battle and be saved by his sacrifice in the name of the Emperor, before his very humanity fails him, and what's left of it turns him into the greatest weapon against mankind. All loyalists have shades of that struggle in their existence, but for the Dark Angles it's the core of their identity - where others stand on eternal watch against the outer enemies, numbing the shame of their imperfections, the Unforgiven keep the most vigilant eye on themselves, for the struggle for the marines' own souls is the hardest one for the Emperor, and the one that has already costed him way too much because in their hubris they failed see how doomed they are without the salvation that the Emperor grants them.
That's why they cut themselves no slack, and why they will keep on the Hunt even long after the last Fallen's stain will be wiped from their Legion's honor - to never again grow prideful enough to think there is a salvation for them outside of the Emperor's grace, granted to those who fall on their knees before him and pray for forgiveness of their own sin.
>>48078290
So it's extra grimdark Catholic Guilt?
>>48078100
Yes, but of course that's not going to get shared here, you perv.
>>48078363
Yep. Also, a surprising amount of democracy since they keep on voting on shit.
Speaking of the Dangels, how was the last HH book? Angels of Caliban? Thinking of shelling out for it now that the common source for BL material has been caught.
>>48078363
Yeah, sorta.
>>48078363
More like "you either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" taken as a direct philosophy.
>>48077882
Astelan wasn't right, and he turned to be a part of a mass chaos conspiracy to save all the Fallen from being scattered to make a Chaos Legion of the Fallen by taking them all from the past. Boreas was also shown to have failed in his duty.
>>48079013
So it wasn't thought-provoking or forcing us to question anything at all? The Fallen are still bad, the Dark Angels are still as good as 40k lets things be?
>>48082545
Nope. Although it's not that surprising- the word of the Fallen is worth less than dirt considering they're typically the guys causing mass insurrections leading to the deaths of millions, possibly even forcing the hand of the Imperium for exterminatus. The question of the Lion's loyalty and the meme that the Dark Angels themselves may be the real traitors came from REALLY unreliable sources.
>>48082807
Honestly, that's the worst part - the Dark Angels are supposed to be considered loyal, but they still do bad things for a dubious reason of greater loyalty to the Emperor than his Imperium.
I would've rather that the series forced me to really question if the Fallen were all that horrible, than to just swing me around a little bit and set me right back off at the beginning. What's the point of asking a question if you get the same answer you started with?
>>48082807
Lion's loyalty with the Emperor is sort of in question though, there's hints that he was completely willing to let terra fall as long as the imperium secundus stood.
First Legion worst Legion.
Also, as of Angels of Caliban, Lion is official tsundere as fuck for Curze. Not sure what to think of this desusenpai.
>>48078290
This is true but the reason why people hate Dark Angels and not groups like Death Korps of Krieg or Lamenters which both have betrayed the imperium of man is because the Death Korps of Krieg and Lamenters pay for their betrayal themselves whereas the Dark Angels make everyone else pay for their crimes: team killing, and leaving battle fields randomly.
>>48084888
Ding ding ding.
>>48084888
>accuses someone of treachery and team-killing
>paints Lamenters in a positive light in the same sentence
>>48084888
>and not groups like Death Korps of Krieg or Lamenters
both of those fanbases are obnoxious as fuck bbqh
>>48077506
>>48077496
>>48077435
Uh.. Are you SURE those are Watchers...? Because I've heard whispers of some amongst our brethren had developed .. strange infatuations with inhabitants of the planet Mo'e IV last we campaigned there...
>>48083442
Cela ne veut pas comment vous épelez Word Bearers.
>>48083442
>skulls
>swords
>angel wings
>halos
>chains
None of those are Traitor iconography
>>48088942
I think she made that picture herself.
>>48044783
They absolutely hate all traitors but the fallen especially because not only did they betray the emperor, they betrayed their primarch and injured him to the point where he's in a coma for who knows how long. They're essentially double traitors.
You want to read/listen to the book Pandorax for example. Yes, of course it's about hunting the fallen but they also take out vast swathes of enemies of the imperium while hunting.
>>48087827
The Lamenters were tricked/bound by honor. That's how they were given the chance of a penitent crusade.
>>48044783
They're repressed homos so you can always find that amusing.
>>48087840
and dark angel fan bases aren't?
>>48087827
lamenters were duped into treachery because of their friend chapter alliance and are now serving their time on a suicidal penitent crusade, death korps had a similar case as the dark angels, someone higher up got corrupted and ruined everything for everyone and years later they're trying to atone for the sin of betrayal by creating vast amounts of imperial guardsmen who are almost entirely devoid of human emotion to fight in the deadliest war zones in the galaxy, but the difference between those two organizations and the dark angels, and why people hate the dark angels but like the death korps of krieg and lamenters, is because the lamenters and death korps of krieg pay for their betrayal themselves, whereas the dark angels have others pay for their betrayal too by leaving the battlefield unexpectedly, being unreliable to allies in almost everything else, and the team killing they do, dark angels fans have a reputation for being unbridled faggots also or newfags from the dark vengeance set, but there are oldfag dark angel fans for sure, a lot of people have dark angel armies so people do get tired of seeing them after a while as well, the dark angels are... grey. they're heretical and loyal, honourable and dishonourable, they're how humanity is essentially and especially in the 40th millenium: they have their own inquisition the inner circle, theyre paranoid and gothicly creepy, have dungeons where they torture people for information, an organization full of lies and secrets as i do not deny it the imperium of man is full of its own lies and secrets, and they're very powerful, the reason i dislike the dark angels aside from the aforementioned reasons is if i want to play a secretive organization, i would play alpha legion, if i want to play a creepy organization, i would play necrons or dark eldar, what i want out of my space marine army is essentially manly marines, if i wanted angry marines i would play black templars
>>48090163
but i have always found manly marines more appealing than angry marines, i love bolter warfare for my marines too, and so i have chosen the chapter than exemplifies both of these qualities which is the imperial fists, a steadfast chapter with a good reputation in the community, the stoic defenders and sentinels of terra, i also love the idea of marines being recruited from terra, necromunda, and iniwit since i have a soft spot for holy terra, hive worlds (i mean who doesn't love the idea of a shitty and grim under hive?), and a frozen ice ball of a world which appeals to my canadianess, also agri worlds are neat, because yknow farmin in spess is cool, i've just never been a fan of knights in space, knights to me belong to medievel esque fantasy and i autistically try and keep that kind of universe and 40k separate aside from magic, because futuristic fantasy is all about big guns and killing aliens in my opinion, also you can tell i am a true son of dorn by the walls of text i have wrote.
>>48090225
and by the autistic way you wrote that faggotry too
>>48088942
It's a pretty obvious joke, anon.
>>48083442
Oh Emperor would you look at the time, it's BTFO the Curzefag o'Clock!
Dark Angels
>Objectively one of the best Legions
>First Legion, first into the fray in the Unification Wars, first into the Great Crusade, the prototype Legion, all other Astartes Legions are based on the Dark Angels standards.
>Have the best void warfare of any Legion during the Great Crusade, even use ships from Old Night that laughably outclass everything in their weight.
>The usage of the Hexagrammaton gives the First Legion peerless flexibility in battle and allows them to adapt to any threat on the fly (sometimes literally) and basically gives them almost everything the other Legions got. On top of this one of the First Legion's specialties is literally Exterminatus, some of their strengths is just murdering everything with WMD's with Dreadwing.
>The Dark Angels are directly responsible for the survival of the modern Imperium, with 50,000 brothers giving their lives to stop a xenos crusade in the North.
>Dark Angels as being one of the top Legions, wiped the fucking floor with traitor scum during the Horus Heresy.
>They BTFO the Night Lords specifically, but also deployed their Legion across the galaxy to hunt down scattered traitor legionaires and put them all to the sword.
>Also used to be the largest Legion of them all until being the spearhead of the Great Crusade simply wore their numbers down.
Night Lords
>Literally one of the worst Legions, Night Lords are incapable of fighting other Space Marines on an equal footing and winning. Night Lords depend upon attacking their enemy in a disadvantage, favoring ambushes, because the Night Lords literally prey upon the weak. Equal foes kick the shit out of them.
>The Eighth Legion was destroyed by the Dark Angels when the First Legion counter-ambushed their ambush, leading to the Eighth losing a massive chunk of their fleet and legion, including all of first company.
>>48090842
lots of spelling errors, but you get the point, it's me explaining why people dislike the dark angels and why i like what i like
>>48091731
Curzefag doesn't joke. She legitimately thinks the Night Lords are one of the best things ever, when they're all just yellow bellied cowards killing innocent civilians and then running the fuck away from any response force that shows up.
>>48092025
The dark angels do that too, you're both shit brothers
>>48092150
No, Dark Angels only run away from a battle if they find out there's a Fallen somewhere in need of repenting. Dark Angels don't run away from equal opponents, they murder the shit out of them.
>>48092177
They run away from the inquisition and imperial authority quite a lot
>>48092222
Oh fuck you that one time it was just that brother-company master Balthasar remembered that he forgot to refill the nutrition vials of his CAT unit so we had to leave at once. It happens you know?
What first drew me to the Dark Angels was their ascetic. I just really dig the gothic style with power armor. Also, to me they really encompass what Space Marines, and The Imperium are, but like everything in 40k, turned up to 11. On the tabletop I enjoy that they aren't just a one trick pony chapter, being able to take Death and Ravenwing really keeps my opponents on their toes. Plus I have a huge fetish for dual wielding pistols and they're the only chapter that can.
>>48091989
Then basically this. The only way you could be better than a loyalist operator legion is ig you were a"Traitor" operator legion. Hydra Dominatus, for the Emperor!
>>48092177
See, this is where you're really wrong: it's the Angels of Redemption that will abandon everything at the first sniff of the Fallen. The Dark Angels have the sense to hide their activities as part of routine missions, getting overzealous in their duties, etc. It's harder to get mad at them when they seem to be working within the letter of the law, while the Angels of Redemption are bordering on fucking everything up for the other Unforgiven.
>>48091989
>Objectively one of the best Legions
Literally nothing exemplary about the dress-wearing pussy marines other than liking bikes
>Dark Angels as being one of the top Legions, wiped the fucking floor with traitor scum during the Horus Heresy.
Pretty sure you lot had a slap fight with your own legion on your rock while the rest of the Astartes actually got work done.
>>48095242
So when asmodai nuked a whole city to draw out a single fallen, it was the Angels of Redemption?
>>48091989
>The Eighth Legion was destroyed by the Dark Angels
Are...are you serious?
>mfw you are
The Night Lords were never 'destroyed.' Sevatar did break their fleet up into six independent flotillas and told them to fuck off and do whatever they wanted during the Thramas crusade.
After the HH and the death of the Night Haunter more and more of the companies simply stopped coming back to Tsagualsa (you know that world Night Haunter and Kurze got into a slap fight on?)
The closest to "destroyed" they have come is when the Ultramarines and the entirety of their successor chapters came knocking to Tsagualsa and slapped the shit out of the remaining companies. Even though they took heavy causalities many managed to escape and become warbands into roving warbands.
Now unless you count being split into warbands as "destroyed" they are still around and doing what they do best spreading terror for the sake of terror.
TL;DR split up does not equal destroyed.
>>48095804
>nuking a whole city to draw out a single fallen
>not an entirely justified decision
Anon why are you such a treacherous scum? What's next? Better sorry than safe? I['m reporting you to the Inquisition.
>>48096322
>Now unless you count being split into warbands as "destroyed"
Well, yeah. That's pretty much the definition of destroyed. El'Johnson forced Sevatar to disband the Legion into uncoordinated warbands, after which it ceased to exists as an entity. He destroyed it the same way Kharn destroyed the World Eaters on Skalathrax, only the former involved even more dead CSMs.
>split up does not equal destroyed
Rogal what are doing here pretending to be a traitor? Stop it, you're just embarrassing yourself further.
>>48096322
They are destroyed. Any hope for unity the Eighth had was lost with the capture of the Prince and breaking of the Night Lords Legion. After that point they are simply a ghost of their prior strength, with the remnants finished off by the Ultramarines and their successors. By M41 the Night Lords have ceased to exist as a Legion. They are scattered warbands, more broken than the World Eaters or Emperor's Children, and weaker than both. Their extinction is imminent considering just how many men they keep losing while also struggling to replace any with their non-existent logistics train as raider parties. Marneus Calgar killed 500 Night Lords with medieval peasants and nothing else for support FFS.
>>48096590
>Rogal
Dammit. Meant to say Roboute.
>>48096590
I am fairly sure I've read about hints that the Night Lords are at least trying to reform. Doesn't Krieg Acerbus lead the largest warband?
If Split does equal destroyed what about the other traitor legions sans the TS EC and WE of course.
>>48096600
>more broken than the World Eaters or Emperor's Children, and weaker than both.
Do you have a source? I thought the WE and EC were the most broken of the traitor legions.
>Marneus Calgar killed 500 Night Lords with medieval peasants and nothing else for support FFS.
I'd really like a source on this one though I have a terrible feeling I already know where it comes from.
>>48047319
Iron Cage says hi
>>48096693
>I'd really like a source on this one though I have a terrible feeling I already know where it comes from.
6th Edition Space Marine Codex. Calgar got shot down onto a feudal world and was attacked by 500 Night Lords. He rallied the peasants to his side and killed all 500 of the Night Lords.
>Do you have a source? I thought the WE and EC were the most broken of the traitor legions.
I base it off how the World Eaters and Emperor's Children actually remain credible threats to the Imperium, whereas the Night Lords accomplish fuck-all. The World Eaters, for all that was done to them by Kharn, have still mounted Blood Crusades for Khorne, including the one led by Angron that required 100 Grey Knights.
>>48097082
>Calgar got shot down onto a feudal world and was attacked by 500 Night Lords. He rallied the peasants to his side and killed all 500 of the Night Lords.
You've got to be fucking joking.
>>48097082
>whereas the Night Lords accomplish fuck-all.
Scound's fall. Night Lords raid a planet 100 light years from Holy Terra. Planet is selected as a target due to it's large schola progenium abbey. Night Lords leave no survivors and arrange the bodies in pattern to summon daemons. Daemons are summoned and rampage across half the planet whilst the Night Lord's escape. An attack so close to Holy Terra leads to the court martial and exile of Lord Commander Solar Jaxon.
Grendel's World: Night Lords attack Grendel's world. Assault begins as planet wide communication systems are taken over and loop images sounds and recording of savage butchery, blasphemy and dying screams. Next the planet's power grid is destroyed causing radioactive fallout to blanket the world in permanent night. 14% of the population dies from sheer fright. A third takes their own lives and the remaining are hunted down for sport.
By the time the imperium arrives the world is completely dead. Oddly no buildings show signs of bolter damage.
There is also the Fall of Vilamus but they only get half-credit for that.
>>48095804
Well Asmodai's a fucking dumbass that even Azrael has difficultly keeping under control and has to go to great lengths to cover for.
>>48097247
>>48097082
Numbers thing aside, I really think that the Night Lords would be less effective the less advanced the civilization. Most of the stuff we hear about their tactics involve a post-mass communication society. It's kinda hard to make broadcasting the tortured screams of your dying victims worldwide before building piles of their dismembered corpses have an impact when there isn't anything that can receive a broadcast, public executions are family entertainment, leaving corpses along the roadside until they rot are standard procedure, and there's some asshole telling everyone your playbook.
>>48097287
Pffffffffrt. Even we cause more damage to the Imperium, and we're loyalists! Gitgewd.
.t a DA
>>48097571
I actually think they'd be more effective, just because the inhabitants would be more superstitious. Easier to spread terror of clawed daemons in armor no sword can scratch that can appear in any shadow.
>>48097790
Beat me to it
>Wait until dark and attack a small group of PDF patrolling the outskirts of the town or the land around it.
>Leave one alive but terrified out of his mind
>bonus points if you get him to repeat "We have come for you!"
>A larger group of PDF come to "slay the daemon"
>Kill most of them
>Do this with a few more groups just stretch it out over a few weeks
>Always let one or two survivors escape
>By now the townspeople are getting nervous
>neighbor suspects neighbor
>Doors are locked at night and fearful eyes look through their windows.
>Now you begin to kill the PDF in the town
>Only a few a night and leave the bodies in very public places
>Fear has a firm grip on the town now
>Even the PDF refuse to come out. Instead they stay inside and defend their families.
>This leaves your true object much weaker
What that objective could be? Who knows. Maybe this world tithes raw supplies to the AdMech your warband could use. Maybe it is an agri-world and buy harassing this and many other settlements you and your warband are preventing the world from shipping food to a warzone. Or maybe, just maybe you are just causing terror for terror's sake.
>pic unrelated
>>48097554
Remember that episode of the text to speech device? The one where Azrael warns the tech priests that Asmodai doesn't drink decafe or something? That's how I imagine Asmodai.
>>48098850
I absolutely adore that series. Bruva Alfabus really outdid himself.
>>48097554
hes a dark angel, from what i remember reading summaries have described him as the most dark angel dark angel too
>>48097554
>>48098850
>>48098885
Same here. I always had a feeling that Dorn was the Centurion.
>>48098944
Now I have it for my phone. Thanks.
>>48099380
The voice actor for Magnus is spot on.
>>48098850
I don't watch TTS. It's just not my kind of humor.
>>48097247
I'm not. The Night Lords got their shit pushed in by feudal worlders harder than the French at Agincourt.
>>48100629
>Implying Phil Kelly can into good lore.
>>48045141
Yee.
The Fallen are the most intense chaos marines because they were (among other reasons) the very first space marines. They have 10/10 training, gear, geneseed, and have a huge number of the fuckers running around. They're pretty much Chaos Reasonable Marines. They are sneaky, and have anywhere up to 10000 years of experience. Dudes are running about placing bolter shots like they're from Wanted.
Well not everybody can be loyalist to the core like the Blood Ravens, but you do have to hand it to the first legion, they give amazing gift.
>>48061812
>Basically, the alpha legion are the most loyalist Cabal dudes ever, with the dark angels only coming in at a close second
fixed that for you
>>48096600
until the 8th legion is reformed under the Prophet and unites to destroy those of Craftworld Ulthwe and assures in Abaddon's victory over Cadia without the Eldar's intervention.I like the Night Lord's trilogy, sue me
y'all dark angels should join the Deathwatch game recruiting in the 40k roleplay thread. Make it a squad of unforgiven
>>48100083
>>48070982
>>48071032
In Dawn of War the Blood Angels tell an Inquisitor to get fucked.
>>48103348
Inquisitionfag here.
While Inquisitors officially have power second to the Emperor Himself, they're only as powerful as their connections. A rosette has a lot of weight, but if that Inquisitor only has a few jackoff acolytes to back him up, it's not going to mean anything if he makes demands to a Chapter Master or someone else with strength in the Imperial hierarchy.
There are cases of Inquisitors condemning entire chapters of Space Marines, but it's usually a group of them; I can't think of a case where it's ever been only one. Not counting Lord Inquisitors, since they have a number of Inquisitors below them.
>>48102514
>cabal is purely fixated on sorting out chaos
>being a good boy space marine means fighting heresy
>implying there's really a difference to the imperium
>>48061812
It's actually been hinted at recently that Alpharius and Omegon had differences on how they felt about the Cabal, or if they could even trust a bunch of xenos.
