>wizard, here are hundreds of fun and interesting spells to choose from!
>cleric, you have a d8 HD, wear heavy armor, and can buff yourself to be a melee god!
>fighter, here's a +1 bonus on attack rolls with one specific kind of weapon.
Do you know why I hate D&D, anon? It's because I wasted so much of my fucking life grappling with the system, house ruling it into a semblance of Not Fucking Shit, when I could have been fun gaming with another system. Except there wasn't another system, because the shitwaste nerds love Pathfinder and refuse to try a system that isn't garbage.
>inb4 u mad bro
Yes. D&D is a shitty system, and it's a cancer infecting the hobby.
What do you expect to achieve here? Nobody who sees or responds to this will undergo some moment of revelation and renounce their opinions - people will either post here to agree or disagree, and any actual chance of convincing people will be shouted down in a storm of shitposting. We've all gone through this song and dance so many times, and yet here we all are.
>>47975691
Man, every day. You really are Virt, aren't you?
>>47975754
It's eternally triggered bitch-anon. He lives his life from one triggered episode to the next.
He goes to a D&D board in order to get enraged about D&D, because rage is the only emotion he has left other than sadness.
>>47975691
I geniuinely think that D&D semi-monopoly is the cancer choking the TTRPG hobby but posting those threads continously is retarded, also
>picking unimportant shit while there are way more concerning things about D&D than those
You know you make more harm than good with thatunless this is false flag/baiting for lulz which it probably is
If you want a circle-jerk, I think you know where to find leddit. We don't care about your shit opinions.
>>47975947
I genuinely think you're just as bad as OP and you lack the self-awareness to realize that, so I'm going to go ahead and point it out.
>>47975691
i play d&d because it's what everyone else plays and no one wants to learn a different system and we still manage to have fun playing it
sorry op i know it goes against your new world order
>>47975993
I geniuinely think that you're projecting shit on people you disagreeing with to feel more secure about your beliefsyes I know this argument can be reversed and turned into endless circle so just stop it
>>47976078
No, there's a difference between disagreeing and endlessly shitposting, and that's where you and your friends are trapped in.
You are stuck in a cycle, because you've convinced yourselves that D&D is a problem. You go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify that to yourselves, and then you feel like it's some kind of duty to shitpost.
Not argue, not disagree, just straight-up shitpost the same empty opinions like you think you're doing someone a favor by complaining about the most popular game brand on a game board.
I miss the memes of old.
>>47975691
>it's a cancer infecting the hobby
It *is* the hobby you Lord of Aspergers.
>>47976171
>>47976171
Hey look, my name says "Anonymous"
Know what it means?
It means you have no means to know what do I write on this board, yet you assume to know.
You know how it's called? Yes, itsprojecting
And anon learned 5e exists, and all was well
>>47975691
> Thinks the classes are the problem
D&D's overrated as fuck, sure, but it's far from teh worst. You could argue it's cancerous because lots of casuals pick it up and never try any other game, but beyond that it's impact within the RPG community is hardly detrimental.
>>47976198
Mods just delete "Elf slave wat do?" threads now. The old ways are dead.
>>47976354
Remember when we had an Elf Slav wat do thread? That was a good one.
>>47976291
That's actually not projecting. I mean, it could be, but that would be raw conjecture. My opinions of his opinions aside, you can't call assuming you're the same person he was talking to earlier projecting.
>>47976291
So, you didn't post that you think that D&D is the cancer choking the TTRPG hobby? It sounds like you did, like you felt that you needed your dumb opinion to be heard. That makes it quite clear you are just as bad as OP, because while OP started this thread you're the one deciding to keep bumping it.
You lack self-awareness. That's half your problem right there.
>Fighter
>most attribute bumps in the game
>most opportunities to take feat combos
>most extra attacks
>extra 1d8 plus forced saves on enemies 4 times a day
>can literally pick up weapon and know what they're doing
>/tg/ cries it's not enough
The fuck do you need before you'll be happy, m8
Why is anyone even replying?
Why am *I* even replying?
>>47975691
This, so much this
I don't hate on people who love D&D, it's perfectly fine if you have fun with it.
But for so long it was the only thing I could play because everyone I know want to play that and only that and never try anything else.
Now I play Burning Wheel, and I'm having a much, much better time
>>47976430
OP has never actually opened a 5e book, they just assume.
>>47976437
It's the classic circle jerk of the outcasts who desperately hate D&D trying to console each other.
This thread will reach 300+, because they can't stop. They are literally addicted to shitposting, and the sad thing is that they think they're acting towards some noble cause.
>>47976437
Because you're a /v/tard. You've been conditioned for years to respond to obvious bait.
>>47976419
Yes I did
And yes I think it is cancer. I have my right to this opinion, and your opinion that my opinion is dumb doesn't automatically make it such.
Especially with no arguments.and inb4 "but you also have no arguments here lol - I didn't posted here to argue about if D&D is bad or not, I posted here to criticize OP
You still have no proof that I make OP-tier shit threads and shitposts elsewhere, and if you take my first post here as shitpost, that's your "dumb opinion" and you can stick it wherever you like.
>Been playing rpgs for 20+ years.
>Not tested D&D until a month ago
>It's actually pretty fun
A little computer gamey (kill shit, grab everything they have) but that's alright for comfy beatemups and the simple ruleset is alright for online gamean.
In ergo, D&D bretty gud. :3
>>47975886
You seem nearly as triggered as the guy you're deriding. I've seen you're constant bitching about bitching for the last few weeks.
>>47976611
>bretty gud
I think you meanpretty good.
>>47975886
>eternally triggered bitch-anon
Are you that person who keeps trying to force this meme-phrase?
>>47976626
Just tossing my worthless 2 cent but it might because we have heard nothing but bitching about dnd for years at this point.
I think he is kinda justified as the anti dnd fags started to infect non dnd related threads or screaming not to use dnd when a thread is specifically about it.
>>47976611
Which version did you play?
>>47976742
If we didn't have bitching about the various games we play, we'd have nothing but an endless cavalcade of shitpost threads that have nothing to do with traditional games. Doubly so since quests, ERP, and smut threads have been kicked out
>>47976588
Remember the part about you lacking self-awareness?
You are as bad as OP. Worse even. You might even very well be OP, because all you're really interested in is increasing the post count of this thread.
So fuck off with your hate. Fuck off with your bait. If you hate D&D so much, don't play it, and stop complaining about it's popularity like you think that it has any impact on you or the games you play. You're just relying on amazing leaps of logic ("if these people who I wouldn't want to play with because they're the kind of people who only stick to one system that I don't even like would just stop playing that system, then the game I have invested myself to an almost religious degree will somehow become popular!"), and doing so in such a stupid manner it can only be called "dumb", regardless of how offended you are to hear that.
You can dislike D&D, but trying to blame it for anything other than starting the hobby, keeping it alive, expanding its player base, and inspiring and influencing every game that followed it, is just needless bitching.
>>47976828
Im not talking about that and you know it.
I am talking about being in a shadowrun or wh40k thread and someone complaining about 3.5 or having threads about story ideas and some fuck saying that it would be perfect if you denounce dnd.
There is debate and discussion, then there is just being a cunt.
>>47976686
Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-anon.
>>47976828
>Doubly so since quests, ERP, and smut threads have been kicked out
you're kidding right? quest threads haven't gone anywhereunfortunately
>>47976626
>>47976686
Forced Meme vs. Forced Meme, and there's no forced meme worse than "D&D is problematic I need to complain about it all day."
>>47976950
Yeah as obnoxious as "oh look"-kun is at least he's not posting threads every day to try and force his meme
I guess always? Like, I didn't start with D&D. I started with stuff like GURPS and BESM and even if I don't like those games anymore, I was never really into heroic fantasy. I do play D&D sometimes because it's the easiest thing to find other players for, and I've had fun with it before, but it's not my thing and it's only been with 5th edition that I've been able to be comfortable with the rules. I have no problem with people who love D&D but it seems like way too many D&D players aren't willing to get out of their comfort zone and try something new every once in a while. And no, Pathfinder doesn't count. So that bugs me, but it isn't a big deal.
>>47976686
There's like a couple anons who make troll threads equating 3.PF with all D&D, and a couple anons who keep shouting "it's the most popular, you are just jealous!". Their posting styles are easily identifiable, at least posts with similar content, temperament and structure had been popping up more regularly about a few months ago.
Both stances are fucking retarded, but make an emotional appeal similar to edition warring but even less concrete and more wide, making intelligent discussion downright impossible, which is made even worse by all the strawmen and appeal to popularity being thrown about.
I'm sincerely hoping it's just trolls trolling trolls, because otherwise I'd have to accept people are still this retarded in 2016.
>>47976430
>extra 1d8 four times a day
paladins get like 6d8 fifteen times a day
>>47977069
Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-anon.
>>47976977
Nevermind, I take it back.
>>47977069
Fuck, it's the genuine article.
Consider suicide. That's the only escape for you, you eternally-triggered bitch.
>>47977005
D&D was my first game
I've played a ton of other systems since then.
I'll still happily play it, but some of my favorites now are Stars Without Number, Dungeon World, MAID, Dark Heresy andmy homebrew.
>>47977104
At the cost of a spell-slot.
At level twenty, it's 5d8 twice a day, 4/3/2d8 three times a day each, and 1d8 four times a day.
The fighter has the 1d8 four times a day at level three, which increases to 6 times a day by level twenty. At max level, they also have four attacks per turn, two fighting styles and those cuh-razy maneuvers and feats on top of it all.
Lol OP, when I was DM I was the only one who owned books or dice, and I had to constantly dispense the rules. We played WFRP2 until I realized they were better suited to D&D. When we finally wore it out and tried out GURPS, that was fun before my desire for perfection made me hate GURPS's limits and imbalances. Then I thought about homebrewing and real life happened, and now when I have time, I play D&D
>>47976643
This post is pretty good, because this meme is pretty good.
>>47977296
Improved Divine Smite too.
>two fighting styles
What?
>cuh-razy maneuvers
There's a maneuver that knocks prone and a maneuver that boosts accuracy and the rest of them are just kinda meh.
>>47977484
The counter one is also pretty okay.
But yeah. That anon is also wrong about them only recovering on a long rest.
I can't tell if he's being serious or sarcastic about it.
>>47977484
Woah, a move that knocks prone AND a move that boosts accuracy? Sounds like weaboo fightan magic to me.
>>47977484
Whoops. That was a mistake on my part.
Alas, the d8's also scale up to d12 before twenty.
So there's that.
>>47977530
Who said anything about a long rest?
The fighters get their stuff back after a short rest.
Which is insane.
It easily doubles the amount of superiority dice available.
>>47977069
>appeal to popularity
This entire argument is always centered around the quality of the game, not its popularity.
To you, it's not just that D&D is popular and you don't like it. That sounds as petty as it is, and you can't have that.
You feel the need to justify why it shouldn't be popular, so you need to try and "objectively prove" that it's a bad game.
And, what you fail to understand is that you can't.
You can't for a number of reasons, with the foremost being that you fail to understand what "objectively" means, and you wind up pretending that your opinions are somehow more important than anyone else's.
You devote yourself to arguments that are petty and inconsequential, never comprehending that most people don't care. They play the game and enjoy it, focusing on the multitude of good aspects, choosing to use the parts of the system they like. All the wheedling arguments you compose, the little nitpicking you perform, it only matters to you, and you are so set in your hatred that you are unwilling to look beyond that. Your self-centered belief that any D&D is a problem comes purely from your own prejudice, a prejudice most people don't have, and which makes your "arguments" just little more than repetitive bitching on matters that are hardly as game-breaking as you've convinced yourself they are.
When people tell you that D&D is popular (with the various editions occupying the top spots), they are reminding you that your opinion is only that. That all your arguments, regardless of how passionately you've deluded yourself into imagining they are so important, are ignored by the majority of players.
No matter how much you want to try and find a reason to justify your hatred, you won't be able to. You can engage someone in the petty debates where you demand they pay attention to your grievances, but at the end of the day, you're still hoping that your opinion is superior to someone else's, and that's really just your opinion.
>>47977653
>Who said anything about a long rest?
>>47977296
>The fighter has the 1d8 four times a day at level three, which increases to 6 times a day by level twenty.
>>47975858
Holy shit I'm having vague flashbacks. Tell me about Virt
>Game one
>Gnome cleric of Garl Glittergold
>Pranking my allies half the campaign, until the BBEG turns out to be a high level vampire
>Destroy him with Sunbeam to his body while the Fighter (who literally specialized in Sundering things) broke his coffin and scattered his gravedirt
>Fun was had by all
>Game two
>Play a super-high AC dorf fighter with tower shield and feats for shields and whatnot
>First encounter is an open field, DM has enemies simply walk around me and kill another player's character, blames me out of character, I end up walking away
To be /able/ to invalidate a character so completely is horrible.
>>47977934
Don't even have to tell you, he has a tumblr now...
virtualoptim.tumblr.com
>>47977996
You might want to try not thinking in WoW terms when building a character.
>>47978001
so he... blogs about tabletop? There must be more, there's a reason I remembered his name so clearly, yet it's all foggy. Are there greentexts of him?
>>47978042
Who the hell said I was?
Because protecting other characters is totally a video-game option unless magic is involved, right? It's not like I put points into social skills to bait enemies with colorful insults as part of my character or anything. God forbid I like the idea of a four foot tall surly tin can begrudgingly defending his 'comrades'.
Nope, it's all WoW and mmo concepts
reductionism is totally the best way to argue
>>47977653
>when your group is autistic and conditioned to NEVER short rest in the middle of an adventuring guy, ever
>they think we are always in a rush even when we're not
>"guys I'm out of resources and almost dead let's rest in this room for a bit"
>"NO, HAVE THIS CURE WOUNDS FOR 8 HP, KEEP MOVING"
>when the cleric insults you for still wanting to rest after his waste of a spell
>when you're not the GM so you can't just change it to 10 minute short rests
>>47978109
Hard to find good quality screenshots. Basically every day he'd start a thread like this and also go into the 5eg and just bitch, call everyone a faggot and cucks, bitch about everyone having badwrongfun, post shitty magic card edits, etc. Doesn't sound as annoying in hindsight but it was hell while he was here
>>47978222
> while he was here
He never left...
>>47976611
It's good for that one thing it was made for (combat-based adventure gaming), mediocre in a bunch of things people claim it's good at (running out-of-the-box fantasy, homebrewing interesting mechanics) and absolutely shitty at everything else.
So, yeah - D&D is good at being D&D. You get problems when players/groups want to explore different things, but never try out any other game/system because they're too comfy with 3.5 or 5e or whatnot.
I mean, sure, you can do whatever you want with it if you replace enough shit with homebrew, but you're basically playing game designer then and might as well pick a less bloated system to design around.
>>47978317
He doesn't tripfag though so he's somewhat indistinguishable from the rest of the trolls. At the very least, the lack of the word cuck makes it hard to identify him.
>>47978379
That's a cute opinion, but it sounds like you're exaggerating for the most part.
If people are comfy with a system, there must be more to it than you're willing to admit.
>>47978404
I wouldn't be surprised if he's"Oh look"-kun.
This is my first time lurking /tg/, are you guys always like this? This is thread is great.
>>47978464
It makes far more sense for ETBA to him. But you're just hoping to pop a meme that's gotten under your skin, ETBA.
Or should I say... Virt?
>>47976892
>>47977069
How does it feel? Getting cucked by the SJW pandering shitshow of an edition that's 5e?
5e will finally kill the shitty D&D you grew invested in by embracing what D&D was meant to be; the RPG gateway drug instead of the brain rotting shitcrack that's 3.PF. Your community is rotting from the inside thanks to the sjw cucks at paizuri and your game is already less popular than 5e is with a grand total of 4 fucking books.
And when they realize however accessible the system is that it's shallow as fuck, they'll look beyond to find other games; they will try Dungeon World, and DCC, and FATE and Savage Wordls, and GURPS and whatever they like, they'll even try 4e, but nobody, nobody will fucking play your edition, not because it's shit (which it truly is), but because it'd mean having to play with pimpledick losers who can't move past the incredibly flawed edition they got emotionally invested in fucking fifteen years ago, and their dossier of "totally cool" houserules for their oh so original, donut steel settings with stats for all kinds of anthropomorphic races.
It'll be only you, and your "friends" in the basement, stench so thick not even your single working mother, who works herself to the death and cries into her pillow while you are slurping mountain dew and sucking the wizard's cock (not you, of course, but one of your totally original anthro NPCs), over what a failure her cuntspawn became.
Then one by one they'll try, actually try other RPGs and realize what you couldn't, that 3.PF is an irredeemably shitty system that only retarded autists play.
You'll be left alone, and decide to mount all your achievements in this life; all the dossiers with the NPCs and all the books and splats you bought and printed for yourself.
>>47978508
I love this post. It's like condensed autism.
I hope that when we figure out how to convert autism into electricity, we won't forget about this idiocy, because I think we could power a small city for a few weeks off of it.
>>47975691
>wizard, here are hundreds of fun and interesting spells to choose from!
>cleric, you have a d8 HD, wear heavy armor, and can buff yourself to be a melee god!
>fighter, here's a +1 bonus on attack rolls with one specific kind of weapon.
You just described 3e (and 3.5 and PF, but they are identical games, and not worthy of being considered seperate.) 3e is not the whole of D&D. Equating the most shit edition with the whole of D&D, because it had the most effective marketing is part of the problem.
>>47978508
Funny, all my books seem to work just fine, and there's more games of PF than any other kind in my town.
I guess reality proves you wrong.
>>47978508
>>47978317
CONFIRMED USAGE OF "KEK", "DUNGEON WORLD", AND "4E"
VIRT CONFIRMED
>>47978555
Oh that's nice, 4chan changed "c u c k" to "kek" now. Huh
>>47978548
>still complaining about 3.5
You seemed to have forgotten to also complain about 2e where the same problems occur, and why not through in some complaints about 4e and 5e as well?
How about looking at the mess of a system that is GURPS, M&M, In Nomine, Paladium, WoD, Exalted, or really any of the popular systems?
I get it, you've got a personal vendetta, but if you're going to pretend that 3e is the only game with flaws, you might as well learn more than just two systems: 3e, and whatever new game you've attached yourself to and think is perfect.
>Not playing 4e
Why do 3aboos cling onto an objectively worse edition besides muh nostalgia anyway?
>>47978643
Why do you think your opinion is objective, and more importantly why do you care?These questions are rhetorical. Your opinion really isn't all that valued.
>>47978508
>Savage Wordls
I can't wait for the magic cards or the usage of "cuck mearls"
>>47978554
That's not how proof works anon...
>>47975691
D&D is the pasta of tabletop, without a good recipe it'll be bland and uncomfortable.
(Plus 3.5 is pretty much left to the autists now, few people care for it).
>>47978625
It's literally 3.5, it references CODzilla and Weapon Focus feats.
>>47978725
It's still the 2nd most popular system if you include Pathfinder, with only 5e having more players and more games.
>>47978508
>this cringe-inducing copypasta
Eh... it was funny when it was first posted, but it hardly deserves a repost.
>>47978763
You build the fucking tower of babel, hoping to find Monte Cook in his ivory tower, so you can suck his cock personally. But he casts his gaze upon your work and says "3rd edition was a mistake"; the tower crumbles under your feet, and as reentry burns your body like fat fucking bacon, tears roll down your cheecks and you cry your final fucking lie, fooling no one, not even yourself>"it's the most popular system!"
>>47978810
Why the copy-pasta?
I don't get what you're trying to do with it.
>>47978109
Honestly, does vancian casting actually make the game morefunor is it an irredeemable mechanic?
>>47977675
That's a lot of words to cry about how it's popular, so it has to be good.
>>47978836
This whole fucking thread is copy pasta. The OP, and at least 3-6 responces in it, along with some rancid bag of shit trying to force a meme.
>>47978888
Try actually reading some of those words, instead of allowing your self-centered arrogance to assume everything for you.
>>47978913
Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-anon.
Sounds like it's getting under your skin.
>>47978625
Okay, so all three things he mentioned, as examples of "why D&D sucks" were 3e specific. If you really WANT my complaints on 2e, 4e, and 5e, I'd be happy to share.
2e: So much nostalgia, but it really doesn't hold up without the nostalgia factor. Still fun for a one-shot, or game night with friends, and it can be fun to run a good old hyper-deadly dungeon-crawl.
4e: Combat takes too long, otherwise love it
5e: Difficult to distinguish from 3e unless you spent loads of time mastering the system of 3e. It feels like it would be more appropriately named 3.5, if they hadn't already used that name and then changed nothing. That's not a bad thing, if what you wanted was "3e but better" but if you didn't want 3e at all, there's no reason to invest time or money.
However, I will concede that OP was correct on one point
>there wasn't another system, because the shitwaste nerds love Pathfinder and refuse to try a system that isn't garbage.
There was a HUGE community that would willingly play nothing but 3e, 3.5, PF, or [insert fandom]d20. Most of those groups, at-least in my area, now refuse to play anything but 5e, which is an improvement I suppose, but still nothing that interests me.
>>47979037
>If you really WANT my complaints
No.
Not at all.
No one does.
I'm neither impressed by your critiques, nor surprised that you only know the D&D's, and barely well enough to attempt to try and critique them by just regurgitating old complaints.
>>47978923
I read it. It's dogshit argumentum ad populum, you little bag of cunt.
You don't care about actual facts, you just want to loudly shitpost about how everyone's wrong but you, and thus, truth doesn't matter. So I'm not even going to bother, other to call you a fuckface, you fuckface.
>>47979121
>t you only know the D&D's
What gave you that impression? This is a thread ABOUT D&D, so it would stand to reason that we'd stay on topic. IF you want to talk about another system or set of systems, I'd be happy to in a thread with the appropriate purview.
>>47979135
No, try reading it. Really. You can't pretend to read it and then just repeat the same mistake.
It's not "it's popular so it's good", it's "You're so set in your opinion, you have to struggle to come up with trivial 'facts' as an attempt to dismiss the majority of players who either ignore you or disagree with you."
That might be the root of why you're so upset all the time, and why you need to feel like other people agree with you. You have an opinion most people don't share, and you feel like you need to somehow "prove" that your opinion is "better", that's it's somehow "objective" rather than petty and trivial.
>>47979332
Sure thing, Ricky Retardo. Keep thinking it's that, and not any of the vast number of actual problems people have pointed out with the system, everyone else HAS to be wrong, your waifu is perfect.
>>47975886
>D&D board
Get the fuck off you newfag, /tg/ has hated D&D since its inceptionIt's a Warhammer board anyway you filthy fucking mongoloid
>>47979448
> vast number of actual problems
And what about the vast number of actual strengths that you seem to forget about in your quest to try and pretend your opinion is anything else?
You don't like it.
That's it.
That's the bottom line, and no matter how much you cry, you'll never be able to magically turn your personal opinion into objective fact, which is sad, because that means your shitposting crusade will always be just shitposting.
You can tell me all about the people who agree with you, and I can even agree on a lot of your criticisms, but that will never make your opinion any more important than the people who enjoy the game, respect its strong points that you might not particularly agree upon, and have grown tired of you assuming your opinion is so objectively true that you need to commit yourself to a crusade against a game that's nowhere near as bad as you've deluded yourself into thinking it is.
>>47976338
5e doesn't solve the problem described in the OP. It makes it possible for fighters to play on the same level as the casters, but they're still boring as fuck to actually play.
The moment that I played a better system.
>>47979532
D&D has made up the majority of posts since /tg/ began and still does. Also, the "/tg/ was made for warhammer" is an old myth without any real proof or credibility behind it (only a bit of a stretch story that moot was bothered by one-day-a-week spam in /b/, instead of being more concerned about the daily misplaced D&D threads in /v/) only perpetuated by 40k fans who like to feel entitled, but don't really appreciate that this isn't just /40k/ or /wh/.
It's /tg/. That makes it the /D&D/ board as well as the /WoD/ board, the /WH/ and the /40k/ board, the /MTG/, /YGO/, and so-on-and-so-forth board.
If D&D upsets you, you're going to be upset if you decide to browse /tg/.
>>47978190
There are feats specced around protecting other characters. Shoving your AC into impossible levels and calling it there is not how you do it. People are not going to bother trying to hit your mini-fortress when there's a squishy wizard right behind you. Take feats like bodyguard or what have you, and lower your AC, instead investing in DR and CON.
Blubbering retard.
>>47976354
Thank fuck.
>>47976354
yet quest threads are still here, and "elf slafe wat do" is basically a quest too.
>>47978763
I'm not complaining about D&D. Just implying people who can't find a way to enjoy it have problems with themselves and their players, not the system.
Plus 5e dominates the D&D scene at the minute, so shitting on the second most popular edition isn't going to be that relevant.
>>47979037
You were BTFO last time this thread happened, avatarfag
>>47980569
my dick dominates the scene
>>47980645
Small local scene you've got there.
>>47980707
...oh... oh yeah?
That's what YOUR MOM said last night.
>>47980746
She was always a tight cunt, story checks out.
I didn't necessarily have a single moment, I just realized I was fudging so many rules that I thought were crap, ignoring so much of the system and having to modify everything to make it more fun. Had a moment of 'fuck me dead, why don't I just play a different system'
>>47980775
Who said I was fucking her cunt.
>>47976865
>because all you're really interested in is increasing the post count of this thread
I have written ONE single and simple comment you fucktard, I didn't want to start anything, jyst to show OP that even people who are technically on the same side of this issue see that he's retarded, and you who fucking dragged this into an argument, so fuck off. I don't see any sage in your posts, you're bumping it as much as I do.
And every bit of what you written after that is your FUCKING OPINION. You have right to have it, but presenting it as undeniable absolute truth and everyone who disagrees as a "dumb shitposter with no self-awareness", using strawman arguments on the way, makes you look like insufferable, entitled cunt.
And I think it is you who is baiting. I'm TRYING not to get into an argument about D&D itself in this thread but with your attitude you're pushing me into it.
>>47980641
>You were BTFO last time this thread happened,
Delude yourself all you want, but nobody but the most hardcore system-mastering 3aboos can tell the difference between 3 and 5.
>>47980983
Says the guy that thought the 5e PHB was printed in black and white. Enjoy your gaping asshole that prevents you from actually articulating a point.
>>47980867
1. One post too many.
2. Sage is invisible.
3. No opinion about the system was offered. Good or bad doesn't play a part in it starting the hobby, nor its popularity maintaining and expanding the player base. I hope you don't want to argue about whether those are facts or not.
The only opinion in play is you don't like the system, and think that the system that is essentially responsible for the hobby is somehow bad for it because you don't enjoy it and don't like other people enjoying it.
>>47980818
Well it is the most hygienic way to use a strap-on but bully to you.
>>47981035
Pardon me for being colorblind. I can usually recognize color, because it looks like some sort of brown, but apparently wizards decided to use one of the shades I don't see at all. You're really hung up on this color thing. Either that or the PDF I downloaded (and subsequently deleted, because I already have the 3.5 SRD without it taking up any HD space) was black-white. You can't expect me to shell out money for a game I've already had for 16 years, and that's been available for free online almost as long.
In all fairness, being colorblind, mentioning color at all was probably a mistake. I guess they changed even less from 3e to 5e than I thought if they didn't desaturate the color.
>>47975691
AD&D: Never.
3e: Well after the release of pathfinder. Like, three bestiaries in. I just had a good gaming group and people who never stepped on each other's spotlight or toes. "Why would I take Knock as a spell when we have a rogue in the party?" kind of guys. And then, one guy happened on a build that made his PC invincible, DR 25/+5, near complete spell immunity, large size... and the game became unfun as he steamrolled everything while being a monk.
4e: We were well into epic tier, and my PC became completely useless, despite having monstrous +35-ish bonuses to do *things* everything that needed doing was just a few points higher in DC than I could accomplish: such things as opening a door, or climbing a vine-covered wall became impossible for me. all because i hadn't taken the *math* feats instead of the *do another thing* feats.
Also, having a 12 page character sheet because of all the fucking rituals i knew like oh my fucking god.
5e: Not yet, doubt I ever will.
I'm also not really in love with GURPS anymore. It's just so- optional, as far as systems go and rules and shit... It was the vehicles that did me in.
>>47980983
>unable to tell the difference between 3 and 5
Er, it's-
It's 2.
Innit?
I mean, dat's the difference.
b'tween 3 an 5.
roit?
>>47981501
I get it
>>47981447
Nice try, avatarfag. I know how colorblindness works. You got proven so wrong that you are desperate for someone to get mad at what your saying, but it just won't happen.
>>47981139
Denying any possibility of system having negative influence on the hobby "because I fail to see any so it doesn't exist and every who sees it must be basing his opinion on failed logic " is an opinion wheter you like it or not. Moreover opinion based on strawman fallacy, I'm trying not to argue about D&D now (contrary to you), so you don't know my arguments against it, yet you're putting retarded ones in my head, you projecting shithead.
>>47981707
>wololo.jpg
People just completely forget how much fighters benefit from magic items
>>47981729
>Denying any possibility of system having negative influence on the hobby
A negative influence? Calling it the cancer choking the hobby when it built its foundations, raised its walls, and kept it standing is the part where I have to ask what a game needs to be in order to be a positive influence.
You don't like it and don't like people liking it, and you've gone so far as to try and justify your hatred by thinking it's bad for the hobby for people to play it.
Yes, it's sad for you that some people don't try other systems after starting with D&D, but not only is their nothing inherently wrong with that, it's also not the system's fault. While it does contribute a lot of things I consider as negative influences, I'm going to have to continue to call your claim that it's some grand cancer as ridiculous, and ultimately petty.
>>47981952
>built
>raised
>kept
past tense. It did its job, but thats it It has no bearing on how it affects the hobby NOW.
Historical significance needs to be put aside when wr're talking about current output
>>47982228
Kept and keeping then.
>>47982280
Except that's opinion, not fact. You may say that D&D os keeping ttrpg alive, I might say its keeping it in stagnation. You may say that D&D is expanding ttrpg, I might say it is limiting its expansion to a single direction that is an dead end. Or, maybe not D&D itself but its monopoly.
And this basically can be applied to past tense too, so that's for your "facts". Starting rpgs is a fact, but if the further expansion was more enhanced by D&D popularity or hampered by its monopoly and supression of other games is a speculation. And my observations which make me dislike D&D push me towards the latter.
>>47978846
Pure Vancian is a bit irredeemable. It's meant to be a meaningful power limiter but it ends up being badrandom in that you have to guess what you're going to need later. It also creates a bit of a conflict of interest since the DM can always alter the encounter to make your spells more or less appropriate to the situation.
Good news is that while it was a blight on earlier editions it's mostly gone in 5e and replaced with a universal spellcasting system that each class treats slightly differently: you have a list of spells that you *could* prepare, then you make a list of spells that you *do* prepare, but you don't assign them to spell slots. You spend a spell slot to cast a spell off the prepared list with many low-level spells getting significant boosts if spent with a higher spell slot. Pure casting classes also get *much* better cantrips than 3e casters but a lower # of total slots to start with and rituals are now free if you take 10 minutes to cast them.
It's actually a really nice way to do it. No one gets locked into "I only prepared heals" or "I only prepared fireballs" but if it makes sense to spend your "big" spells on all heals or all fireballs then you can. Meanwhile most of your value isn't locked up in the big spells anymore so you can participate more round-to-round and have less reason to fear fights going long or happening more frequently. If you can't tell, I'm really quite impressed with it.
tl;dr Pure Vancian suuuuuuuuuucks but you can build some workable things off of it, it just takes about 20 years of trial and error.
>>47982422
If we want to talk facts, we can talk about how each new iteration of D&D brought a score of new players into the hobby, including 5e continuing to do so today, alongside the other editions in part as well.
If you want to bring about some facts about this "suppression", I'd love to see them. At best, you have anecdotal evidence from less-than-trustworthy sources, alongside your personal and biased observations, all built on a set of faulty premises.
You genuinely believe that D&D's popularity is cancerous, because you feel that it's undeserved, and that people are trapped playing that game because no one wants to play the other games.
Is that correct?
Am I right in saying that you think that people find the other games hard to learn, unappealing and unmarketable, lacking selling points or meritorious credentials, failing to suit their tastes and needs, and somehow it's the fault of the game they prefer to play? Or, are you going to go ahead and belittle everyone who plays the game, and try and say they simply don't know any better, like you're some sort of magical prophet arriving to spread the truth that they can't grasp?
D&D's not as bad as you think it is. People like it because it's a good series of systems, and its popularity isn't as unwarranted as you imagine it to be. It's only seems like a cancer because you don't like it, and don't like that people like it.
I personally would love to see other games get a bit more attention, but at the same time, I find little purpose in trying to spur up needless hatred.
>>47982821
Ok, so you're just continue to present my opinions as obviously wrong, bad and making me stupid for having them, and yours as right and true "because they obviously are", throwing one or two dry facts that don't actually prove anything but putting a bit of undeniable info into a post makes it look more valid?
Well, it seems like yo are projecting, entitled cunt so guess writing anything more is pointless, because not only will you not agree with me, which was sure from the beginning, but blatantly ignore any case made as wrong by (your) definition instead of disprovong it, so its pointless and I'm tired of this shit and need to sleep
Saying D&D is holding tabletop RPGs back is the rough equivalent of saying that Street Fighter is holding fighting games back.
>>47975691
When i tried other systems.
>>47983494
I'm condemning you for being wrong because, in this instance, you are.
You're not wrong for not liking D&D. That is an opinion you are free to have.
You are wrong for perpetuating a myth, a myth with nothing behind it except people trying to find some way to justify their hatred.
Even if we were to discount what the game has done recently to expand the player base, and even if were to go ahead to discount any measurable contributions to the hobby, we would simply be put back into a place, where by your own words, the matter is speculation.
Speculation alone is not enough to warrant hatred. You might not hate D&D, and may merely dislike it, but you play a part in helping fuel a senseless hatred that's gripped several people. They believe in the myth you perpetuate, a myth based on spiteful opinions, and they use it to justify a downright unnatural degree of enmity.
D&D is their enemy. Do you understand how silly that is?
They come to this board, and their goal is not to enjoy the games they like, but to fight against an imaginary enemy they feel is the source of all their problems. They lie, they fight, they do whatever they can, whatever they need to, as long as they feel justified.
But there is no justification.
They recognize that simply disliking D&D is not enough to support their actions, so they've created an ideology where D&D is objectively evil and it must be struck down. They spur each other's hatred with the lies that you yourself have succumbed to, this mythology about how every problem you have with your games is directly or distantly the result of how popular D&D is.
You're right in that I will not agree with you, because you only see half the problem. You don't like these threads, but you fail to see that you're supporting the myths that encourage people to make them, myths you agree are at best speculation.
>>47981707
>There's only one variety of colorblindness.
Look, I don't know what you see, but other than the cover, the book looks black+white to me.
Besides, if they didn't switch to a retro black+white aesthetic, then that just means they changed even less from 3e.
Also, even if I am going crazy and the above link IS somehow color, being right about the color of the book doesn't even come close to proving that 5e is in any discernible way different from 3e, save in minor tweaks that undermine old 3e powerbuilds in ways that only a system-mastery-nut would notice.
>>47981707
>>47984483
>>47984500
>>47984483
Because that's the fucking black and white PDF that was circulating on /tg/, and was used for its notably smaller filesize, you cockmongler
Do I have to get out one of my physical books to take pictures?
>>47984450
>>47984483
>>47984500
I know there are different types of colorblindness. I also know a pirated black and white scan when I see one instead of being you.
I'm not going to rehash how wrong you are, but keep posting multiple butthurt replies to me without addressing what you couldn't refute last time.
>>47984576
Okay, so, apparently as I already said >>47981447
>the PDF I downloaded (and subsequently deleted, because I already have the 3.5 SRD without it taking up any HD space) was black-white. You can't expect me to shell out money for a game I've already had for 16 years, and that's been available for free online almost as long.
Reading comprehension much?
You were right about the color of the book I downloaded instead of paying real-world money for. You, however, are still a system-mastery obsessed 3aboo who's never branched out of the OGL if you think that 3e and 5e are different enough to count as separate editions.
>>47984696
nice strawman fampire, I play4e and 40krpg
>>47975691
I dont hate D&D or those who play it, but it does stifle other games. I just cannot play a level and hit point based system. It feels too gamey, everytime...this includes all the D&D clones.
>>47984736
>Claims to truly believe 5e is signifigantly different than 3e, and not just a slightly streamlined OGL game
>Claims his favorite games are 4e and DH
I don't believe you. I'm well aware it's a true scotsman argument, but the 5e is so obviously a expansion/refinement of 3e and only 3e, that only someone who can't see outside the purview of OGL games would see it as major deviation from the 3e model.
>>47984814
I know you don't believe him, because when I called your same shitty arguments here >>47964550
this was your response >>47964733
Your default is "this is a lie because it goes against what I said" and then to repeat yourself.
>>47984814
>implying DH is the only 40krpg
Now, when did I argue any of those things? Yes, 5e is strongly like 3e. The main difference is that 5e is something resembling playable.
>>47984874
>Now, when did I argue any of those things?
>>47963986
That's the main premise I have been arguing against for 2 threads. I'll admit I was wrong about the color of the book, and the existence of the obligatory "Hp are not meat points" page, both largely because I never bought the book, and only kept the PDF on my HD for a few months. Look, I'm never going to buy the book, or download a larger PDF of that thing, so I'm okay with being wrong there.
However, I will defend to the end, the clear truth (that I think we actually agree on) that 5e is basically Hasbro taking 3e, copy-pasting it, and modifying it a bit. My problem with 5e is that the baseline that they started with a fundamental failure. E.G. if you offered to serve me the best bottled diarrhea in the world, and assured me that you've spiced, fermented seasoned, purified, and aged it perfectly, my response would be "but it's still bottled diarrhea" which is why my response to looking at (and briefly playing a few sessions of) 5e was "but it's still basically 3e." Perhaps to you, 3e isn't bottled diarrhea, but a bland tasteless baseline that could well be improved, which I would disagree with, but hell, I'm sure there's probably a culture out there that actually drinks fermented poo, so that's more a matter of taste.
As far as I know, all of the 40krpg games are essentially DH's system, but with different career paths (and I think they call them something different, but they're still totally career paths.) If that's not true, I'd love to see a 40krpg that works off a different format, because I like 40k lore, but don't much care for the DH format for anything other than game-night drinking-game style game a-la Paranoia (though it makes a damn good drinking game.)
>>47985040
There's more than one of these threads on the board?
And while the 40krpgs are very similar in basic gameplay, Dark Heresy, Only War, and Black Crusade are rather different in character advancement and practice.
>>47976198
Not every board can be /tv/. The Earth has more deserts than rainforests.
>>47985078
There's only one at a time. Somebody made two in a row, and my argument sort of bogarted both of them.
Here's another of the posts that initially got me in drunken rant mode
>>47964459
>5e plays nothing like 3e. Like, at all.
As for the other 40k games, perhaps I'll investigage the others further, because my first instinct was "this looks like more DH, and DH never really appealed to me, delete." Which one would you recommend that plays particularly differently from DH in practice?
>>47985153
Really, the big changes are in character advancement and mechanical shifting-around, but Only War often uses things seldom seen in DH, such as vehicle rules. Also, it's surprising how much of a difference the adjusted shooting rules make.
>>47976769
5e
>>47978379
That sounds reasonable, but if you have a more ambitious campaign I don't see the reason to just try another system?
>>47978216
omg, one of our guys is this
>>47975691
D&D is not nearly as awful as people on 4chan make it out to be.
I've played quite a few games (at this point numbering in the dozens), and while Pathfinder isn't my favorite game by any stretch (that would probably be Shadowrun 4e), it IS in my top 5.
Every RPG has balance problems and poor design decisions of some kind, and you can do much worse than Pathfinder.
I will *PLAY* (But not run) Pathfinder.
However, here are some game systems that i had so little fun playing that I will no longer play them:
>Rolemaster (Awful, tedious levelup mechanics, somewhat boring gameplay, interesting character creation).
>Deadlands (Mediocre setting, crappy core mechanics, crappy combat rules.)
>Savage Worlds (Crappy Core mechanics relying far too much on the "perfect" flow of bennies)
>FFG WH40K RPG (Poor Balance between splats getting in the way of cross-use).
>NWoD (Bland setting, nonexistent balance between splats, shit balance in pricing character options)
>oWoD (Slightly less shitty setting, shittier balance)
>Unisystem (No core book, rules are spread out over a thousand sources, crappy balance. It's basically a crappy GURPS, based on oWoD/Shadowrun mechanics).
>FATE (That kind of storygame is simply not what I look for when I want to play an RPG).
>Mutants and Masterminds (All the characters are so damned samey, it gets old really quick).
You can do much worse than Pathfinder, and you're making a bigger deal out of it than is justified.
>>47984032
See, there is the problem. You not only assume that "D&D as cancer" is a "myth", which is obvious because that's your opinion in the matter, but you attack people holding contrary opinion, without even actually trying to argue with it, not even speaking of any attempt to see the problem from another point of view, and you project shit about why their opinion is stemmed from negative traits and failing logics.
It's funny how you projection about us is exactly like the projection of about D&D you claim we have.
>>47985500
Oh my god. It just hit me. He's using the same argument tactics both /pol/ faggots and SJW shitheads use.
>>47985617
It's easiest to just say "fallacious arguments".
Also a common tactic in classic trolling.
>>47980390
why there are still quest threads on /tg/ after japanese moot created /qst/?
>>47975691
I stopped gaming for a while, then got back into it with 4E. During a game I realized that everyone was a wizard of some kind regardless of their actual class, that every session we had played had been five minutes of role-playing followed by two hours of grinding through a fight encounter, and that we spent a significant amount of time every session clarifying rules.
We switched to narrative-centric rules-light games and have been happier and had shed loads more fun.
>>47985890
Stubbornness.
>>47979966
Bodyguard doesn't stop enemies from just sauntering by you, you have to stay within reach of all the characters you want to protect to use it. Which also makes the fighter even more boring to play. And even then you're just trading them AC points. Also it's a blatant example of dissociated mechanics, although it's not 4e so I guess it doesn't count.
>>47978379
>D&D is good at being D&D
Fucking weird, right?
I usually buy games/movies/table tops because I expect them to be something else. Picked up Fight Club the other day, hoping it would be like Mission Impossible.
Moved on to something better.
>>47983837
SF itself isn't, but Capcom DID essentially kill the scene for like, almost a decade by dominating it with its less than stellar games.
>whaaaaaaa the thread
>>47979581
>but they're still boring as fuck to actually play
That's subjective. A lot of guys seem to have been bitten in the ass by caster classes hogging all the spotlight. But generally, if your group is more or less friendly with each other and the GM rolls with your suggestions, then being a fighter isn't so bad.
>>47975691
you're probably playing with the wrong crowd and too busy min-maxing instead of working with the DM and other players to just
have fun
crazy, right?
*picks up mic*You can have fun with a broken system, and having fun is what this is all about
*drops mic*
>>47986671
Counterpoint: A broken system can impede players' fun because of its flaws and require GM effort to fix.
>>47986715
Counterpoint to your counterpoint
A well built system can be so bland and boring that no one actually wants to play it and they ignore it.
>>47986725
[citation needed]
>>47986728
4e.
>>47986730
There's a difference between "players do not enjoy tactical combat so they don't enjoy a system about tactical combat" and "4E is bland and boring".
>>47986715
Actual counterpoint
It's true that a broken system can impede fun. But a broken system can be a lot of fun to play with the right people. And people who pass the session bitching about casters are not the players I would ever DM for.
Challenge: find a group good enough to have fun playing FATAL.
>>47986671
You can have fun with a workable system too, arguably more fun. The fact that a good chef can make a decent meal out of garbage doesn't mean he can't make a better meal out of quality ingredients.
>>47986728
In the spirit of the maturity of your comment,
No, you.
>>47986725
Well if I'm just going to ignore the rules either way I'd still rather have the one that's well put together.
>>47986759
Then go hang out with the DW fags who do not even know their own system.
>>47975691
/tg/ enlighten me. I discovered TTRPGs five years ago; I have only ever known Pathfinder, anything else only minimally. Tell me what other system I should learn.
>>47986779
Anything not named 3.5.
>>47975691
The day I realized that, as the forever DM, I was spending more time making houserules and fixes than I was actually planning a campaign is the day I stopped playing d20 System games completely.
I started with AD&D 2e, and much prefer it over 3.PF, so I can't say I hate "D&D" so much as I hate d20 D&D.
I didn't actually mind playing 4e but actually found it a slog to run.
I'm pretty pleased with 5e so far, reminds me of AD&D a little with lessons learned from the modern games. But for the most part I play OSR games for my fantasy needs.
>>47986739
You're right, there is a difference between those two statements. But that doesn't change the fact 4e is bland and boring.
>>47986802
In the context of other D&D games that's a pretty bold claim to make.
>>47986802
That's not a fact.
>>47986779
Nothing else if you do not have the group and are not willing to run.
There is no reason to waste the time, this is from experience.
>>47986779
Literally anything else.
And I don't just mean that in the whole "HURR DURR PAFINDER SUX" meme, I mean that Pathfinder and D&D are the most prolific names in the hobby but don't come anywhere close to being representative of it. Just pick any game at random and read it over and you'll see the world of difference between the playstyle, presentation, and lessons PF taught you about gaming.
>>47975691
>When did you realize it's not the system that makes the game good, it's the people you play with?
ftfy
>>47975691
It isn't garbage if you play the wizard?
>>47986841
sure, but i'd still rather play a good game with a good group than a bad game with a good group
a nice compromise would be a game that's so bad it's funny, but no D&D edition has ever been THAT bad
>>47986841
Never because I've had shitty games make the experience miserable for everyone while a good game didn't. A system that is a terrible fit for a group will never be fun.
>>47985500
Hopping in for the first time to say (and watch the poster count hun, don't go pretending you're being bullied by one person):
You are lacking thoroughly in understanding the fine art of actually changing your mind. You're hiding behind the word "opinion", when the person you're arguing with has given nothing of the sort.
You've been given facts about how DnD has positively influenced the game, and how it *continues* to.
Those are hard facts.
Your points, however, such as it leading to stagnation? Those are conjecture. There is no proof that with DnD gone overnight that other games would flourish; in fact, the opposite often happens in other markets of entertainment that lose their mainstay attractions (coming to mind immediately, see TV subscriptions and channel views, and their impact after losing a specific single show; people do not stick around for that entertainment style once their mainstay vanishes).
What this leaves *you* with is the burden of proof to find a single fact to back up your conjecture. You haven't shown that.
Furthermore, without those facts, the only way you can arrive at the position "DnD is cancer" is by either absorbing incorrect opinions around you without thinking, or by rationalizing it as a made-up reason for your dislike of DnD or the people who play DnD.
What this leaves us with is a position from you, which (until proven otherwise) is conjecture stemming from rationalization.
The one you're arguing with, though?
They've posted facts. The only *theory* they've given was on your *behavior*.
They don't have a "contrary opinion" of DnD. They only have the *factual, concrete* data in front of them, and are noting a *factual* net positive in the market that is *absolutely* caused by DnD.
If you want to change their mind? Offer facts to back up your claim DnD is harming the hobby.
Otherwise consider taking a long hard think, and realizing that the way the evidence points, you and your beliefs are part of the problem.
>>47986775
what difference does it make? I don't believe these are really the only options, but even if anon's right and options are between a shit game that you're going to ignore and a good game that you're going to ignore, you'd have to be an idiot to spend money on the shit game.
At least if it's good you might mine the book for ideas every once in a while or something
>>47986779
>Only played pathfinder, what's good?
>Shadowrun
Shadowrun is fun. I'd say 4e is best Shadowrun, but I have a friend who prefers 5e because of the rebalanced combat rules.
>FFG Star Wars
Wonky dice, but fun game. I'd suggest getting the app, it's cheaper than the actual dice. Last time I looked at the freebie knockoff apps, they didn't add up the dice properly, but they did roll them and you could see them to add them up yourself.
>GURPS
It can be a little intimidating due to the sheer number of books available (not unlike pathfinder, actually), but it's a solid and very versatile system. Just started getting into it recently and I really like it so far. Start with gurps basic, and add what you want for the type of game you want to run. For something d&desque you want dungeon fantasy, but you could instead just go fantasy, or traveller(sci-fi), or monster hunters (for a Buffy/supernatural type campaign), or low tech for a historical game, or powers for super heroes.
I'd suggest ignoring the basic magic system and grabbing ritual path magic and thaumaturgy, which is also the magic system presented in monster hunters.
And I'd suggest using GURPS powers for building signature attacks and special powers. GURPS general is pretty friendly if you have any questions.
Those would be my top three suggestions.
Rune quest 6 is quite good too, as is call of Cthulhu. Fantasy craft looks neat but I've only really played it for a single session so I can't say for sure.
Most of the other games I've played may have had a few good ideas, but nothing good enough to make me suggest them.
>>47986901
It just helps us segregate people who have shit for brains into one group.
>>47986880
hypocrite that you are for not accepting the flaws of the system and using them to the advantage of the group to make a good time. you hide behind the excuse that the system makes the game bad when in reality it's your contrived accusations that the system somehow limits your capacity to have fun (unless you're actually that much of an incompetent RPGer to be incapable of playing without rules lawyering in any system)
or, unless you're that much of a faggot to have a group that enjoys sci-fi games and play pathfinder with them, and then go on to say that pathfinder is shit
>>47986916
And there is a new Conan RPG and a new Witcher RPG coming out that I'm interested in, but I have yet to play them in order to determine if they're good.
Oh!
D20 Conan is pretty decent. It's a pretty heavy overhaul of d20 to make it more sword and sorcery. Superficially you ll find it looks like pathfinder or 3.5, but it's significantly different in a lot of ways.
>>47986919
Because Exalted doesn't have uneducated weebs, and White Wolf doesn't get it's edgy teenage pagans and Twilight fans, and 40k doesn't get it's lolrandom idiots, and...Though I will note I have no negative stereotypes associated with Savage Worlds, GURPS, Mutants and Masterminds and even RIFT, I have run into an idiot in each. The others it's just faaar more pronounced.
>>47978643
>Why do 3aboos cling onto an objectively worse edition besides muh nostalgia anyway?
There's no other reason.
>>47985500
looks like someone got btfo.
good one >>47986895, keep killing the cancer with this, they can't accept the truth
>I refuse to touch anything other than 3.x and then spend all my time bitching about it.
>>47986949
>for not accepting the flaws of the system
"Fighter is worse than an animal companion" is not an acceptable flaw no matter how much you want it to be.
>>47986969
>i cant not stand someone is not of the same opinion as me and they must be stamped out
>>47986919
I don't even know what you're talking about at this point. of all the negative stereotypes I've heard of DW and its players "it's a good game but they ignore the rulebook" wasn't really one of them. unless you just saw this as an opportunity to shitpost randomly about a game you don't like
>>47987002
Arranging 25 perfectly logical albeit ridiculously strawmanned arguments into a grid pattern and slapping "BINGO" on the top doesn't invalidate any of them, just fyi.
>>47978643
>Playing 4e
Far too meta for me. Might as well be role-playing a board game or a game of mtg or narrating over final fantasy tactics as a group.
If I ever want to play a highly tactical dnd inspired dungeon crawl boardgame, I will reconsider 4e as an option.
>Why play 3.x/pf?
>Easy to find players.
>D20pfsrd/archives of nethys/dndtools means accessibility of content for everyone more than ever attainable using books or PDFs.
>Everyone already knows how to play.
>Because everyone plays it, even if it's complex try build an effective character, there are comprehensive guides that evaluate the options and explain why each one is good/bad.
>Tons of compatible published predefined enemies/worlds/adventures, that already work with the system, right out of the box, either for inspiration or because you don't have time to plan an original campaign.
I don't always play dnd, but when I do I play 3.pf.
>>47986916
Had a look at Shadowrun but my Pathfinder experience made me a bit unimaginative as to how an adventure could run. "It's the high-tech future, there's passports and cameras everywhere, how could we get shit done?"
But I enjoyed Dragonfall so I'll give it a look.
>>47986985
Sure it is.
Nobody is forcing you to use that class in your game. Just drop that class entirely if you're running pathfinder.
>>47987017
>perfectly logical
Whatever you say, senpai.
>>47987062
Oh fuck. Shadowrun is the best. Try it.
Sr5 isn't bad, but I much prefer sr4.
>>47978570
>Oh that's nice, 4chan changed "c u c k" to "kek" now. Huh
Dude it's been here for quite a bit. It also changes t.b.h and f.a.m.
>>47987071
Shit argument is shit.
>>47985243
>That sounds reasonable, but if you have a more ambitious campaign I don't see the reason to just try another system?
Because D&D, especially the 3.x generation, is a system of immense bloat that instills opinion in newbies to tabletops that ALL systems like that and once they've learned how to D&D good, learning anything else will be too hard.
>>47987171
And no one cares
Soon as I picked up a BRP based system and flicked through it.
Skill based systems > Class bases systems
Alignment a shit
D100 > d20
>>47975691
Use Path of War
Use the Stamina system, add an option that lets them boost their rolls ala Mythic rolls.
Give them more Skillpoints on top of that.
Allow any feat that involves one weapon to focus on a group of weapons (As per fighter weapon groups)
And give Fighters Hero Points, while Wizards don't get none.
Hell, my group has a ruling that high level fighters (Or characters with no magic) gain extra actions as they level up, similar to incremental attacks. Letting them overcome the one resource limit wizards can't usually does grand things.
Thank you for your time, please feel free to call the Fighters are Meh Hotline again.
>>47978542
Indtall pizoelectric switches in their keyboards, floors and chairs, so when they type out essay length replies, jump on their chair and stomp the floor they generate power.
>>47987055
>Easy to find players.
Thank god 5e is overtaking it in popularity.
>D20pfsrd/archives of nethys/dndtools means accessibility of content for everyone more than ever attainable using books or PDFs.
4e has a better tool in the char builder. Other editions don't require you to page through 20 million splats.
>Everyone already knows how to play.
Thank god 5e is overtaking it in popularity.
>Because everyone plays it, even if it's complex try build an effective character, there are comprehensive guides that evaluate the options and explain why each one is good/bad.
Thank god 5e is overtaking it in popularity.
4e also has guides, other D&Ds don't need you to look on the internet to build a character.
>Tons of compatible published predefined enemies/worlds/adventures, that already work with the system, right out of the box, either for inspiration or because you don't have time to plan an original campaign.
Thank god 5e is overtaking it in popularity, and it has the DMGuild shit going on too.
>mfw my country created a god tier TTRPG but no one plays it.
>>47975691
DnD has way more problems than simply Caster/Martial disparity and intraparty imbalance.
It's the first thing that comes to mind, and that retards love to flaunt, but DnD has a lot of worse flaws.
tl;dr don't focus solely on caster/martial disparity, it makes you look like a retard
>>47987374
>dont keep bringing up dnd and let it die if you hate it
Ftfy.
>>47987382
Well, yes, you're right, but in case you want to discuss something, even if it's a thing you hate, focusing your hate on a single (not even major!) shitty aspect is kinda dumb.
>>47987490
What are the major problems in your opinion?
>>47986028
"Bodyguard" is a Pathfinder feat. You are so bad at this.
>>47985040
>>47985153
And you still can't come close to arguing the points brought against you because you are wrong. But keep avoiding posts calling you in your bullshit, claiming everyone else is lying, and then repeating your dumbass "arguments"; you're not heavily invested in this argument at all.
>>47975691
Call of Cthulu and Delta Green are better. You guys have fun with your +1 Sword of Infinite Virginity, I'll be exploring Carcosa and Innsmouth
>>47987351
Even as far as gimmicks go, Dread is better
![[DeadFish] Aria the Origination - 13 [DVD][480p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_23.53_[2016.01.15_03.13.16].png](https://i.imgur.com/FqmPPsB.png "[DeadFish] Aria the Origination - 13 [DVD][480p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_23.53_[2016.01.15_03.13.16].png")
>>47976245
I'm into the hobby for almost 20 years now and D&D games are maybe 10% of all games I played.
Just because retarded garbage shows like Dance With The Stars are the most popular shit on TV doesn't mean that all TV is trash.
It's the same with tabletop. Nobody is forcing you to play D&D just like nobody is forcing you to play CoD. Who gives a shit if they are the most popular? Most people are idiots and that's a scientific fact. Being the most popular is never a sign of quality.
>>47976350
The real problem with D&D is that it's not a real RPG game. It's a dungeon crawler.
Sure, you can play it like an RPG game and good GM's can do good things with it. But at it's core it's a dungeon crawling action game.
>mfw I've never played D&D and have no intention of trying
Why do that when I can actually have fun instead?
>>47988060
That hasn't been true since before 2e.
It's just another one of those myths that D&D-haters try and tell each other.
>>47988096
4e was a 100% dungeon crawler that was not even trying to be a good RPG game.
With 5e it's like 70%.
>>47988124
That's exaggeration.
I have no reason to take you seriously.
>>47987351
Your country created jack shit. Some people made it.
They're probably from somewhere; that's secondary at best. They probably also had particular hair and eye colours.
>>47975691
>it's a 3E is the only edition episode
>>47988124
4e's out-of-combat system was almost functionally identical to 3.5e and pathfinder.
It just had very boardgamey combat.
But you wouldn't know that because you clearly don't know the first thing about ... any version of D&D, as far as i can tell.
>>47988060
>D&D is not a real RPG game
HAhahahahahaha
>>47986895
You only give factual, hard facts about D&D positively influencing... D&D, not TTRPG as a whole. Ok, D&D is big chunk of TTRPG, a majority of that, and if you include it with the rest it certainly gives base for that equation.
But from perspective of someone who doesn't want to play D&D at all or would strongly prefer something else? All these people and attention D&D brings "to the hobby", are WORTHLESS. They are dead weight, providing no benefit to the community unless they later start playing other games. Which happens only for small percentage. The positive influence of D&D on "the hobby" as seen from perspective of someone not playing D&D, and thus not including it within it, is marginal.
Now, negtive influence is speculative to a degree, but I see what I see, and I can draw conclusions from things.
D&D is massive attention hog overshadowing everything else, and many people aren't even aware there are other games "like that, but different". Many make simple associatio D&D=RPG. There are people who don't ever get into the hobby because all they hear about is D&D, and they don't like it. There are many players who start with D&D, only because it's "default" system, don't like it, and quit the hobby without trying anything else. Or keep playing, having some sort of fun, but oblivious of possibilities of other games that could give them more fun being better suited for their needs. Or start gaming in other systems, but bring with themselves bad habits from D&D which take long time to unlearn. And several other things like that. All those happen. This is hard fact. Speculation is, how often it happens and the degree of negative influence it has on popularity of the other systems. But seeing how positive influence of D&D is mostly limited to it's own self-contained environment and having little impact on TTRPG scene outside it, it doesn't take much of it for tipping the negative net value.
>>47988198
Nobody says that if D&D dissapeared overtnight the other systems would share its whole former playerbase. But if that would be just 10-20% of them it is huge positive influx, at no cost, because D&D players don't count as anything of worth - from this perspective.
Now add negative influence on the fantasy as a whole. This influence is also a hard fact. The negativity of it is an opinion depending on tastes, but show how from perspective of certain point of view it is indeed cancerous. D&D is not classical fantasy. D&D is "cape-comics in fictional medieval with magic". Its shallow, overblown, cartoonish, it fails to catch the spirit of it's source material (as presented by authors of the setting) in the slightest. Yet it influenced all of modern fantasy, both within and without the TTRPG sphere, becoming dominant subgenre and creating association of fantasy=stupid d&d-like shit. You argue if that is bad or actually cool, but you can't deny that for certain demographics it IS bad.
Add people that turn any generic RPG discussion here or in other places into an D&D discussion because wololo "RPG IS D&D" and playing the most popular system is making them entitled to disregarding everything else.
So no, I won't say D&D popularity is objectively cancerous, as for people who play D&D it is not, and they are majority. But from the perspective of people who don't give two shits about D&D, it maybe might be?
>>47988174
4e's out-of-combat system was an extra literally nobody who played 4e gave any shit about.
Every 4e game I had or saw was combat, combat, combat and more combat.
>>47988139
>>47988174
>>47988191
>roleplaying in a game where mid level character can take 5 hits from a catapult to the chest and not care
>>47988198
>>47988210
>But from the perspective of people who don't give two shits about D&D, it maybe might be?
Thank you for the tl;dr, which is basically "I don't like D&D, so I don't like it's popularity."
Most of your post was just weird rambling based on conjecture, built on a few scraps of anecdotal evidence that you've exaggerated.
>But seeing how positive influence of D&D is mostly limited to it's own self-contained environment and having little impact on TTRPG scene outside it, it doesn't take much of it for tipping the negative net value.
Now, your entire post is insane, but this in particular stands out. On one side of the scale, you have a handful of hypothetical scenarios that really aren't quite as widespread as you imagine, with your "hard facts" built on conjecture. On the other hand, you have a game that is most people's introduction into the hobby, and ultimately the main reason people continue to stay in the hobby long enough to learn about the less popular games. For all the bad things you say it teaches people, it's also the game that teaches them the fundamentals of the hobby, alongside a host of other important lessons.
Your third-to-last paragraph is where I'm glad you just let all your opinions leak out, because that's really all they are, and your failure to appreciate anything about the game from outside your personal hatred is what keeps you chained to your myths.
There's nothing wrong with how D&D handles fantasy. None that can be objectively proven, at the very least, and we can argue the finer points endlessly. And, that's the part that frustrates you. Your argument needs there to be something objectively wrong with D&D, because otherwise you're just complaining about a game that handles something in a way you don't like it to, and you wind up deluding yourself into thinking your opinions are more than that just so your argument doesn't deflate.
>>47988245
>4e's out-of-combat system was an extra literally nobody who played 4e gave any shit about.
Hello.
I'm here to be the anecdotal evidence exception from your absolutes.
>>47988348
>weird rambling based on conjecture
Like all the massive thesis that you've been shitting out, you mean? Jesus christ, the obliviousness is insane.
>>47987598
Overt and excessive usage of secondary stats, badly implemented skill system, non-abstract approach to wealth, main resolution mechanic hinging on a flat probability curve, a lot of extremely retarded shit regarding various class/feat prerequisites/dependencies etc.
I can elaborate on each one of this (and more) a bit later, if this thread will be still alive.
>>47988405
Here's the short and simple.
1. Some people don't like D&D
2. They don't like it being popular
3. They want it to be less popular
4. They feel they need to shitpost about it due to the magical thinking that shitposting will decrease its popularity
5. They feel they need to rationalize why they need to shitpost about it
6. There must be something objectively wrong with D&D
7. If there's nothing objectively wrong, then all their efforts are petty
And from there, we get people coming up with all sorts of outlandish myths to try and objectively prove why D&D is terrible, when it really all just comes down to a matter of taste. If there's nothing wrong with playing D&D, then all their crusading is just meaningless political posturing, and if that's brought to the limelight, they lose all credibility.
So, they will argue, and argue, and demand that their opinions to be taken seriously, while most people have already learned to just ignore them and their trivial complaints.
>>47988053
>Posts anime reaction image
So you play MAID the other 90% of the time?
>>47988473
>Overt and excessive usage of secondary stats, badly implemented skill system, non-abstract approach to wealth, main resolution mechanic hinging on a flat probability curve, a lot of extremely retarded shit regarding various class/feat prerequisites/dependencies etc.
I more or less agree with all of those except the flat curve; since D&D uses a pass/fail system it works most of the time the same as a normal curve (it's not really great for granular results, such as, say, jumping, where there can be a difference of like 20 feet between two average jumps). Also, flat probability makes calculating the worth of bonuses easier.
So it's a trade off, at worst.
I also prefer curves, for the record.
>>47988543
Many people are also angry that D&D is so popular only thanks to brand name and a lot of people refuse to even try anything else.
>>47988640
Never even played it.
>>47988866
That's your myth. You think it's "only" because of the brand name, which is why you get so upset and try to rationalize your shitposting.
>>47985040
Yeah it's called Hindu culture, you bigoted shitlord.
