Bump?

>>47972434
> Premise is that in addition to the existing complexities of 2e there is going to be an economy, inflation, multiple currencies, futures trading, scarcity caused by dragon attacks, or invading hordes.
It's called a trainwreck.
How are you going to pull it off?

> 1. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions as you are an insideous and creative lot.
Yeah. Thought so.

Another question: do you or you players have any economic education?

Please don't tell me you're going to be basing item prices off the wealth in the 2e books

>>47972706
What books have proper item prices?

Posting from mobile, please excuse the lack of green text

I do, I minored in it while getting my engineering degree, and am going to be using some modelling stuff assuming a relatively normal primitive economy with some wrenches thrown in (I figure a roman legion burning and raping is about like an elder red dragon burning and hoarding)

I've gotten a month off between the last job and the one I will be picking up in Portland, and have been building spreadsheets, I think I might be able to build a better databases centric solution down the line, or a web based software as a service thing (though I will have to have the player's logins aware of their locations so they can have the prices they will have access to, rather than some optimal market price thanks to sticky/local markets with all the slow trade)

The idea is partly to help teach my players about economics.

It also gives the option of an alternate path (rather than direct party adventuring, killing, etc.) Not to say I have any opposition to that (my main PC is running a reactor powered by the deaths of greyhawks orphans in a game back in my old home town) just want to give some depth to explore, and a more potentially educational experience.

>>47972753
I don't know how to answer that. The OSR threads have a lot of people pretty familiar with realistic pricing, like how if a warhorse is 200gp, then a chainmail hauberk is probably only 1 GP.

>>47972706
I care much less about realistic prices and more about having players be able to impact the world.

If you burn all the millet farms, millet price is going up, simple as that. If you dump a shit tonne of gold into the economy with a spending spree after dungeoneering you are going to raise prices on the things you were buying (because of the nature of primitive economies your spending won't impact markets you, and the merchants you didn't buy from didn't participate in immediately, there would be an eventual uptick in prices for corn but that's far enough out I am not even going to bother with it unless I find that it is significant)

>>47972812
> I don't know how to answer that.
Then what was the purpose of your post?

> The OSR threads have a lot of people pretty familiar with realistic pricing, like how if a warhorse is 200gp, then a chainmail hauberk is probably only 1 GP.
I frequent OSR thread, but I don't remember any discussions about this.

Either way, we are talking elfgames. Even if I dig up High Medieval price list for England, I'm not going to claim it is 100% perfect and true. Means of production (hello, Marx) are different. You can have skeletons working in salt and coal mines, druids blessing the farms, dwarves smithing different steel, and mages pumping out eldritch GMO (that might include sheep and horses). And then there are magical plagues, demands for special magic components and weird fungus people that want to buy tons of salt.

Unless there some specific problem, 2e price list is neither better nor worse any other price list you can pull out of your ass.

>>47972990
> Unless there is some specific problem,

Pretty much starting with stock price list for urban areas, working out which commodities are produced where for local price lists as I go, in that I can run the spread sheet as many generations (market days) as I need and will be keeping the list of player generated modifiers it should be okay for now

I am going to increase the complexity of the model as I go to provide more accuracy and depth.

>>47972990
>Then what was the purpose of your post?

Ah, reading comprehension troubles, friend? Noting that the 2e book doesn't have realistic item prices does not imply I think another D&D edition has more realistic item prices. Nor were they ever claimed intended to be realistic in any way.

>I frequent OSR thread, but I don't remember any discussions about this.

You probably didn't ask then.

>Either way, we are talking elfgames. Even if I dig up High Medieval price list for England, I'm not going to claim it is 100% perfect and true.

Okay. I'm not sure where you're going with this...? Skeletons in salt mines in no way means item prices are going to be less logical.

>Unless there some specific problem, 2e price list is neither better nor worse any other price list you can pull out of your ass.

Actually, its *guaranteed* to be worse than any you make yourself either on the basis of historical precedent or simply using logic and reason to hammer it out. Because in that case you are assigning prices with a rhyme or reason to them.

>>47972434
If you're not homebrewing a mechanical system for this, you're going to fail.

I played 2 sessions of a similar complexity with 2 players and the information was overloading after a session..

>multiple currencies
This won't happen, the players will select 1 fiat currency the party uses then only interact with the other currencies to abuse them/interact with NPCs

>Futures trading
The best way to insure any investment is successful is to diversify, diversify, diversify are you gonna be prepared if one player decides to invest their gold in 20 separate ventures what about 5 players that each want to invest in 20.

>economy, Scarcity, so you're going to arbitrarily make goods unavailable? Or are you going to geographically map where every good comes from and goes to then try to manually propagate that through the network. How will you represent the prices of goods, the supply, the demand.

>Banks and corps

I hope you have them all preplanned because it's gonna be obvious if you come up with them on the fly. Entire settings are built on a corporate megastructure background and even they shy away from mechanically fluffing them out but that's the work you've set for yourself. Shit, Eclipse Phases setting is half corporate oligarchy and they limited themselves to 3-4 pages of vague fluff about theirs.

>1500 cards +200 plotline one's
Dude that's 1700 events what the fuck are you going to come up with to fill out 1700 distinct events. What happens when you got lazy and the cards that come up are Skeletons, More Skeletons, Oh Look Further Skeletons and finally Giant Rats.

>>47973313
I suppose I am home brewing the mechanics in that I am building mathematical models for all of this.

I am going to make the maths and everything transparent, and I do hope the players game the shit out of the system, I will let them know I intend to plug holes they find after they've had fun with them (hope you do not mind, responding to other bits in other posts because mobile)

>>47973313
As far as multiple currencies, there is good reason for it. I point you to early american history (before the unified dollar) each bank had it's own currency, and different businesses had books, showing them their own local exchange rate. Understanding the locality of currency in primitive economies is important, plus, a reason to kill money changers for evil characters, or unite empires for good ones.

>>47973313
Futures trading

Another good way to invest is to manipulate the commodity, if you know the lich is going to kill 500 cows in the pomarj, it'd be good to have 300 in the duchy of tenh ready to drive to greyhawk, right?

Or say you make a deal with a dragon.

It gives incentive to move in the world in creative ways, and since insider trading is in no way illegal in greyhawk...

A wizard with a good teleportation spell could make quite a lot of money with the right divination tools.

have you talked with your players yet about if this is kinda game they wanna be playing in?

because frankly this sounds like a nightmare but i understand that there are people out there who are rock hard over the idea of a crunchy economic sim add-on for 2e.

>>47973313
The mapping is being done through an indexing of all greyhawk materials (I've found all the mentions [I think] of production in greyhawk fluff and modules to try to pin down production locations, going to get drunk with a geologist friend to see if we can pin down hallmarks of obvious iron or orogenic deposits in the greyhawk map (or salt) next time we go out drinking, the maps I have don't have roads, so I am going to figure those out, and use travel times based on the underlying 2e stuff

As far as the corporations, there are going to be a few NPC ones off the bat, effectively a giant expanding pawn shop/title loan company, an information trader, and a mercenary corps, any else are going to be emergent, or player developed. Any of the production corps are going to be too small to matter in the early game.

Existing groups (wizarding guild, free city of greyhawk's ruling body) will have become corporate bodies, but will be acting as they traditionally had

Within this iteration of greyhawk the sophisticated economy is relatively new (the simulation is going to start ten years before the game)

The event cards are mostly economic in nature "3d4 additional inches rain on the 1d4 to choose commodity crop" could destroy the crop, could make it thrive, and it wouldn't directly impact the party at all directly.

The BBEG ones are not all necessary some are contingency cards. If the party ignores them, he needs 40 cards to get it off, but if environmental factors, or the party prevent his shit from working, the backup plans begin to kick in.

Of the base 40 cards only half of them directly impact the party

>>47973971
Recruiting predicated entirely on the premise!

>>47974090
then godspeed to you, chum.

since you live in portland, might i suggest trawling the engineering department at PSU? shit, i know a couple of math/econ grads that would become moist at your game.

don't go near math folks though, we're a lazy bunch ;)

>>47974201
That sounds like a solid plan for recruiting.

I want people who enjoy breaking the game (peasant railgun, trans dimensional machine gun, tender's floating disc as a loboty tool for giants) so I can throw clthulu in power armor at them :P (not literally)