Pathfinder General /pfg/
PoW brawler and PoW vigilante link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jWw7bVMARxrXfRuOW20NlRqXEnS_XGLPT6LHTbz2qME/edit#heading=h.fr0xm36g4eum
Broken Blade errata to shut up ogres when?
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/hdPm41ad
Please search for the unerrata'd content here:
http://web.archive.org/web/http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
Old Thread: >>47957766
>>47967245
Anyone ever tell you that you're a jerk?
How are all of you tonight /pfg? Have anything you need to get off your chest?
>>47967283
Yeah, I preferundinesoversylphs.
>>47967306
How dare you. Everyone knowsoreads a best
>>47967283
I'm GMing starting next week and I'm goddamn terrified of it.
Threadly reminder that feats need to be reworked because a lot of them are fucking useless and will actually make your build worse
>>47967333
You got this, anon!
>>47967306
Top taste. I hear they make for great Zealots and PsyArms
Immune to Weapon Damage: Swarms made of Diminutive and Fine creatures take no damage whatsoever from weapons.
Why is this a rule.
>>47967397>tmw the level 8 sleeping goddess counter
>>47967399
Get a sword and kick over an anthill.
See how well you fend them off.
>>47967412
yeah dude tie a mouse around your wrist and try to catch it.
>>47967412
I'm sure i could smash a swarm of cockroaches pretty well with a fucking sledgehammer.
>>47967410Why is she so perfect?
>>47967437
Swarms are 10 feet wide. I would love to see anyone try to take a sledgehammer to a 5 ft radius cluster of bugs
>>47967399
But a spell aka fire makes them all go away
Martials aren't allowed to have good things
>>47967490
I mean maybe a sledgehammer is innacurate
When we think of 'earthbreakers' we think of basically WH40k style gigantic fucking hammers.
I think that could do pretty well against swarms. Not kill them in one turn maybe but ya know
Smash hard enough
>>47967502
xd
>>47967490
because pathfinder is a simulationist game
Guy fighting a swarm of bugs with a giant hammer? Unrealistic not allowed
Please ignore the guy LITERALLY THROWING BALLS OF FIRE IN THE BACKGROUND.
Character concept;
His name is Au Nui Ahi, which translates to "I am big fire". He's a lava Gnome from a city underground by lava pools, and he's a fire attuned Kinetecist. He wears an oversized tiki mask in combat, and specializes in Firedancing. He dances around his opponent, throwing fire, hitting them with torches, or otherwise using fire-attuned movement abilities to attack. Signature move is "Ring of Fire", where he draws a Wall of Fire behind him as he circles his opponent, then fights inside.
Any tips on pulling this off?
>>47967473
She is literally the only good thing in that entire game.
>>47967399
>>47967502
>>47967510
>>47967529
If the game is really simulationist and people actually consider what they're arguing, the first instance of any spells casts will cause that caster's head to violently explode
Because that shit isn't "realistic"
>>47967551
Don't be a Kineticist.
This sounds like a well-thought-out concept, but it can only end in disappointment with that garbage class
>>47967245
...Why.
>>47967573
exactly.
>>47967573
>I didn't read these posts at all
>>47967567
you're funny
>>47967573
It's fake simulationism. Magic gets a pass because it's magic, of course it can do whatever. Anything nonmagical tries (and fails) to be simulationist because it's the world, it has to make sense just like our world.
>>47967590
Did you?
>>47967579
Kinetecist has the neat ability that lets you draw a wall of fire behind you though, I'm not sure other classes can do that. And a sorcerer has much greater difficulty switching to melee with a torch on call, as well.Thank you for the compliment, but I've done fire sorc and storm sorc and dragon sorc and cthulu sorc and I didn't want to play yet another character that pulled from the sorc/wizard spell list.
Hey everyone! So I am currently working on an Unchained Cavalier. One of the main changes is the change to Cavalier Orders, which now work as something more similar to the Oracle Mystery.
There is a main list of Cavalier "Oaths", which do a number of abilities both in combat and out of combat. Then from this main list every Order has Oaths they have access to fitting their flavor. As a cavalier levels up he gains Oaths off his Order's list. This makes the Cavalier class more modular and frees them for more choice. Every order has 8 Oaths they have access to. In addition the Cavalier gains a Dilettante Oath, meaning one that appears on the main list, but not on their Order's list.
Due to this increased number of features I have had to decrease and consolidate Orders. So as to keep Order powers relevants I have consolidated similar Orders. At levels when one would gains a Order power they choose from a number of them (3, which is the number of Orders consolidated for each, there are 8 new total orders).
The goal is to make Cavaliers into a more regal feel if one so desires, have them appear to be Landed Knights and lesser nobles, or to open up such things as a Barbaric Outrider, Lone Sellsword, and other such mounted archetypes. The Oaths are means to help in this specialization.
In addition Banner has been changed to be a more important part of the class, with a list of Banners to choose from for the Cavalier, gaining new Banners as they level up.
A final change is making the cavalier able to use Challenge a number of times per day similar to before, but an additional number of times equal to their Wisdom modifier.
These are the current plans for the "Unchained" cavalier to go with the Unchained Fighter I have already posted. Thoughts on the proposed plan? What would you like to see out of a "Unchained" Cavalier?
The "Unchained" Fighter can be found here:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twEab3PBHvzMLTrx_UJak4P9g5avkvVaZfrBiMPI-6s/edit?usp=sharing
>>47967595
>Magic gets a pass because it's magic, of course it can do whatever. Anything nonmagical tries (and fails) to be simulationist because it's the world, it has to make sense just like our world.
I agree that's an issue in PF, but there's a difference between "no fun allowed for marital" and "Loony Toons, nothing makes and sense at all".
Martials having trouble with swarms is fucking fitting. I don't care how good at combat you are, a swarm of wasps is going to be a nuisance to deal with if you try cleaving it to death.
>>47967595
Even some things in our world don't make sense or defy physics or the laws of nature
That's fucked
>>47967608
Yes.
>the original question, bringing up the swarm thing as a problem
>a complaint about casters and implication that martials should be able to hit them
>pointing out that a proper hammer should work fine implying that the rule is bad
>literally your exact same point, talking about how the simulation attempt is stupid when you consider magic
You agree with everyone, and then tried to argue with them. The fuck is wrong with you?
>>47967647
What if you could deal 50% to them and only with blunt weapons
just so you don't feel useless
>>47967624
I am sorry to meme this, but I need to ask. Is 3pp available? Specifically, Path of War.YES I KNOW butI'm not suggesting you play an initiator, but that you dip a single level of a class to get a cool feat from DSP's Fool's Errand playtest:
>Vortex Rush (Combat
>You trace paths of elemental fury across the battlefield.
>Prerequisites: Two Elemental Flux maneuvers known, two Fool’s Errand maneuvers known.
>Benefit: While you maintain an Elemental Flux stance, whenever you move as part of a maneuver or combat maneuver, or force creatures to move as part of a maneuver or combat maneuver (including when dragging a grasped creature), you and those creatures leave behind a trail of energy in every square exited during the movement. Creatures entering or passing through a trail takes points of damage equal to your initiation modifier of your active element's associated energy type. A creature can only take this damage once per action; for example, if a creature moved (or was dragged) across a trail multiple times in the same action, they would only take the damage once. Each trail you create with this feat is considered to be part of the same trail for the purposes of damaging creatures multiple times, and your trails vanish one round after you make them. You do not take damage from your own trails, and may suppress or resume this ability as a free action. This is a supernatural ability.
>>47967624
Try Fire Domain Cleric. You could take the Theologian archetype to make your fire spells much better, and get the ability to prepare them in non-domain slots, giving you Wall of Fire in all of your fourth level spell slots.
>>47967658
How is he arguing with everyone, do you proofread or do you just bang your face on the keyboard and hope for the best?
>>47967595
Its retarded, you can't just say "This guy has to adhere 100% strictly to reality" And meanwhile the other guy transforms into a dragon
There's gotta be some give, so the reality guy can even keep up
>>47967666
That sounds cool but incredibly useless, Satan-chan.
>>47967677
Psion(Kineticist) or Wilder is also pretty good. Take Favored Energy:Fire and go nuts.
>>47967658
Bro, he is agreeing with peeps and saying that those who say martials shouldn't be allowed to do this and that while simultaneously saying that casters can be capable of bullshit is retarded
>>47967666
That's a little different from what I tried to do, but it still might be fun. We usually don't use any 3rd party, but if a particular hing is really good I can talk it in.
>>47967677
Might be worthwhile. I'd certainly be better at martial combat. Can you worship a volcano?
>>47967717
It's up to your GM, but volcano worship seems like a pretty straightforward way of getting the Fire Domain to me.
>>47967716
>>47967685
>Wow if these idiots arguing in favor of a simulation its game would consider magic, they'd realize how stupid it was
>not trying to argue against simulationism
>quoting posts and then making an argument isn't supposed to direct the argument to those people
You're both fucking dumb.
>>47967658
Stop being fucking prissy, you're the only who's wrong here
>>47967756
I haven't tried to take a stance, I can't be wrong. At least not yet.
>>47967771
>I can't be wrong
Holy shit
>>47967717
Also, you could look into the Firebrand feat.
www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/firebrand-combat
You wouldn't actually meet the prerequisites, but it's worth bringing up, and if you were one of my players I would allow it.
>>47967790
What the fuck, i thought they couldn't mention the names of gods on the pfsrd?
>>47967786
>I still don't fully read the posts I reply to
No I can't be. I even specifically said "not yet" to avoid a retarded response like this. You can't be wrong if you don't make an assertion or a statement. I have nothing to even be wrong about.
>>47967790
Well then, I guess I thought torches were like that already anyways. I'll definitely need to bring that up, thanks.
>>47967771
>muddied everything by forcing your own special interpretation of what's being wrtitten
>doesn't want to hear explanations
>arguing for the sake of arguing because hear me have verbal diarrhea
Yeah okay, Trump supporter
>>47967818
I think Asmodeus is open source, since he is an actual archdevil in Christian theology
>>47967845
Oh, can't be wrong
You are literally what's wrong with this game
>>47967845
Yes, my own special interpretation of caps lock sarcasm about caster supremacy. I'm sure I just made that up out of nowhere, and that person wasn't complaining about the same thing.
>>47967860
Nigga do you fucking read at all or is everyone here retarded? I'm not saying that I as a living person forever lack the ability to be wrong. I'm saying that in this conversation, I have not yet made a claim or assertion yet. I have not tried to state any sort of fact to be called wrong.
>>47967873
What the fuck are you blathering about now?
>>47967906
So did you butt in after the conversation began, or are you too stupid to remember how it began already? Please tell me so I don't make assumptions about you.
>>47967903
But you have applied your own interpretation of what you think was said though and made wide accusations out of fucking nowhere, have you taken your meds, does your handler know where you are?
>>47967954
Please tell me what was actually meant by this then >>47967510 and how my interpretation of "someone arguing that a decent weapon should work fine" is wrong, please tell me how that's a wild assumption. I honestly think you must be trolling me at this point.
> Look at Shaman spell list
> No Remove Disease or Freedom of Movement
why..?
>>47967974
Uh, austic bro, think he was using the xd reply because of >>47967502
Do you think bother to read or does it get in the way of your overbearing fuckery
>>47968017
I was clearly not talking about the xd reply, but instead the other 99% of the post. I'm not even sure why I'm writing this reply since you've just made it abundantly clear that you're trolling.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492660-Drop-Dead-Studios-Vigilantes-of-Skybourne
DDS is having Ssalarn do vigilantes. Place your bets.
>>47968046
Do you bother to consider other opinions than your own or is everything an echochamber?
Curious
>>47968046
And what if the other dude was only replying to the xd comment and not the rest of the post?
>>47968050
Won't be done for another 2 years
There will be a hiatus on announcing a hiatus
But it comes out before arcforge
>>47968077
Gee whiz, it's like I clearly asked and even said "please" tell me how you think my reading of that was wrong. Oh boy it's like the only person to reply to that post completely ignored it and shitposted about a different thing. Wowee zowee if only someone would just use real words and tell me what you think instead of shitposting at me I might respect you even a little. That'll never happen though.
>>47968094
Then nothing changes?
>>47967658
Dude, I was only replying to the xd leaving the rest of the post unresponded to, unfortunately theses boards don't bother to differentiate between sections of replies
Don't make an ass of yourself
>>47968178
So what you're saying here could mean a few different things. 1, you only read the xd part and not the rest which is why you seem to think it deserved an argument against simulationism. 2, you are simply retarded and didn't what you were reading or saying. Or 3, you didn't follow the post chain properly and confused which side of the conversation he was on. Really there's no situation where this works out for you.
Ok. I went back to something I worked on a while ago and pared it down to a more concrete theme than the original was.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/181xuVW9TAYjZpgWS0q6U4A9SqJZG8CcXGG2lIMwn3Fw/edit?usp=sharing
Still very much in alpha though. I'm a bit unsure on the damage of Minefield and if the wording of various abilities are any good.
Still, here we go. A Harbringer Archetype based on firearms and alchemical items (Though not limited to them)
>people saying simulationism in Pathfinder is stupid
>guy tries to argue with them when he actually agrees with them
>gets called out for it
>shitposts for the next hour because he can't let it go
Holy shit just drop it you fucking autist.
>>47968225
Actually they only apply to you because you think you saw something that apparently roused your autistic tendencies and could not go unchallenged, and decided to wade in with both fists swinging at air and imaginary hallucinations for no fucking reason
I bet you're really fun at parties and games
>>47968225
>desperately trying to dig yourself out of your yawning hole
GG
>>47968258
>wade in with both fist swinging
>>47967590 is both fists swinging
Are you certain it's not you that thinks you saw something that wasn't there and is getting incredibly rustled over it? This is a really tame statement, and you clearly seem to think it was a personal attack of some kind.
>>47968246
>Samegagging and being an utter fucktard>>47968246
>>47968267
There is no hole.
I'm not even that guy, but agree you fucks are pretty fucking retarded
Get out into the fresh air and take a breath for goddamn once
>>47968290
No. There's just more than one person sick of your bullshit by now. I know you want to imagine your vile enemy as some sort of irredeemable autistic bastard but really you're arguing for just asking about just as trivial of a topic.
>>47968318
You and him are literally the autists in this thread
>>47968318
Being this asspained to invent an imaginary friend
>>47968332
Okay champ, just keep it going then. Keep shitposting and arguing for hours, shit up the thread all night. I'm sure nobody will think you're autistic for being so insufferable for so long. Just ignore the multiple people telling you to stop sperging out.
Anything interesting came out from Pathfinder Horror Story? Not necessarily good, just interesting.
Is it horror like "We be vampires now! Rawr <3" or more like "Alien mass of infected meat"?
I can see why RAW vs RAI is such an issue if you fuckers are like this
God fucking damn
>>47968343
>posts 30 seconds apart telling you to shut the fuck up and move on already
>still thinking it's samefag
Holy shit you really are fucking retarded, aren't you?
Alright folks. Finally made selections for the game I'm going to be running - a horror campaign (in theory...) set in Ravenloft, where the player characters are from Eberron. Our Intrepid Heroines are:
> An ethumion war veteran who became a Ravenlord rather than deal with seeing all of her ideals get savaged
> A teenaged silver dragon who snuck away from home to go on an adventure
> An underemployed beast breeder taking her wolf to mercenary service with her
> A knight-chandler caught in the conflict between her faith and her nation, looking for a break from dealing with it all
> A failed mage, psion, and psychic who finally achieved magical power by bludgeoning all of those elements together and becoming a Shattered Mind.
You'll get storytime when we have some.
>>47968347
Being this much of sore loser over being wrong and misinterpreting shit because of what you want to read and only your viewpoint is right
>>47968366
Are they all women or something?
>>47968364
Get over yourselves m8
>>47968372
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you think I was wrong. I know you won't, you'll just keep shitposting.
/pfg/ what are you favorite support builds/casters? As I was considering playing a Life Oracle (With Merciful curse for LOH) but I've done an Oradin and a Lunar Oracle before so reconsidering.
>>47968376
Yep. No one noticed until after the app process was finished, including myself.
Can you guys fuck off
Go outside or something, jesus Christmas
>>47968372
OH MY GOD SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY YOU ARE EXCLUSIVELY SHITPOSTING AT THIS POINT YOU TOTAL FUCKING AUTIST
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided
What the fuck is this
>>47968398
Dude, please, you using caps lock isn't the way to go
See >>47968397
>>47968397
>>47968398
>9 seconds apart
>niether are even me
Oh boy, I can't wait to hear more about how I'm samefaging. I sure do look forward to more rambling autistic delusions.
Holy shit, what is wrong with you people
It"s either stop being creepy or stop being autistic fucks
>>47968391
Chuck some fake beards on 'em. Perfect disguise.
>>47968391
five guys(most likely) playing five girls?
wow, this can only end one way.
the only question is whether tentacles involved
>>47968407
That's what makes Wis the best stat.
>>47968429
As one of the people who didn't make the cut, I think that all but one of the players is female.
Did a whole bunch of you take Wis as a fucking dump stat
>>47968407
The single pest thing to happen to Monks before Unchained came out.
>>47968441
As one of the players, this is correct.
>>47968441
What anon there means is "tentacles is yes"
I just got here and people seem mad already. What did I miss?
And good evenin', /pfg/! How's you weekend holdin' up?
>>47968470
What happened to Elsbeth?
>>47968470
/pfg/ being /pfg/ and then some
>>47968366
>Shattered Mind
>Aasimar Holy Woman
>Ravenlord
>All Female.
>>47968490
How is Rikku a Shattered Mind? I peg her as more of a Stalker, or an Alchemist.
>>47968476
Older image, she's fine for now.But she did kind of die and stuff earlier in the campaign
>>47968478
Well I shouldn't be surprised then. Carry on then.
>>47968490
>pic
>>47968469
The only confirmation on that is QANON's possible preference>inb4 confirmation and possible are conflicting
>mfw I started all this shitposting by saying that martials being 100% useless against swarms was stupid
Good lord I've made a mistake.
>>47968511
I was making a joke about how much of a ditzy space cadet she is.
>>47968529
Why is Helen soCute?Didn't someone commission a pic of her like a week ago?
>>47968559
I dunno about that, friend. You may be backtracking too far. You may as well say it's Paizos fault for making the rule.
The ones at fault were the people too caught up in themselves to realize they were being such shits. For the ones reading this who were involved yes, I also mean you, not just who you were arguing against. You too.
>>47968586Yeah. Though the email was lost briefly in the clutter. I'm going to be chipping at that this weekend though.
>>47968589
man i just wanted to vent about what i felt was yet another stupid rule that makes martials more shit, not turn the thread into an autistic argument between two people about rightness in general.
What was the funniest curse you've ever encountered?
>>47968470
>>47968478
>>47968529
>>47968589
They were more autistic than 2hu and that's saying something :/
>>47967529
>>47967510
Because swarms aren't meant for noncasters to fight.
Just like casters aren't meant to fight highly skilled adversaries that people actually use correctly instead of making it obvious where the enemy is and what they're doing to everybody. You want a real enemy for casters, don't use enemies easily located and easily defeated by a single spell. Chokers, for instance, are a low level casters worst fucking nightmare. Stealthy, small, interfere with spellcasting, and difficult for casters to realize they're present when used correctly and not as obvious in your face threats. There's an entire section in every bestiary of 'monsters by role' - skilled, spellcaster, combat, any, none. The real threats to spellcasters is enemies they never see coming, usually off the skilled role list, because contrary to popular belief on /tg/ spellcasters are not automatically prepared for everything forever and always.
>>47968628
>Just like casters aren't meant to fight highly skilled adversaries
But casters are good at fighting 'highly skilled adversaries'
>>47968628
I may be in the minority here but I tend to agree with you, casters do seem to end up stronger than martials but not by nearly as much as people seem to say so often. It's really never been any issue in any of my groups, at least not up to 8th level or so.
>>47968636
>I didn't read the whole post
>>47968648
casters don't really start to outshine until higher levels, but when they do they do it hard.
This only becomes a big problem with high optimization groups though,high game mastery makes breaking the casters with a skilled player easier, the better they are the most likely they can trivialize encounters with proper spell use.
>>47968662
You fool, you've doomed us all.
>>47968662
Because you're wrong.
Smart players have a ton of paranoia and can and will deal with 'highly skilled adversaries' with ease.
>>47968662
Please stop. Just stop
>>47968668
I just never really got that in my games. Like the man said, a choker can gimp a caster immediately. Any lurker type monster getting behind the line to your caster completely changed the flow of combat. Monsters that fail their saves tend to be the weaker ones of the group anyways and don't have enough power to take on their former allies. Creative terrain or traps can decrease or negate the effectiveness of many spells.
There are of course a few standouts, I do agree that casters end up a bit stronger in the end, but really it's not that big of a deal and I can easily envision a fighter hacking up a wizard in a fair duel.
>>47968715
because your system mastery in low
In reality the fighter and the caster at high levels is not a fair duel, and the wizard is basically on another plane of existence.
>>47968687
Tell me what a 4th level wizard can do to stop a stealth check and a choking grapple.
>>47967845
>being so butthurt about Trump that you bring him up for no reason
>>47968721
>Not flat-out telling your players they can't play Wizard or Fighter
>>47968721
I mean I guess it's easy to just make claims left and right with no basis, I can do it too. Want to see? If you actually had decent system mastery, you would know how to properly build a fighter.
desu all the theory crafting I see on here almost always fails to take into account action economy. You all think that just because you can think of a spell that could solve something, that you'll have it prepared and be able to cast it when it comes up. In reality a fighter who wins initiative and charges you is going to get to make a swing. After taking that damage, you can then choose to defend or attack if you're still alive. Then the fighter swings again and kills you. You've only got the one chance, and sometimes not even that if he makes his opportunity attack.
>>47968366
>Ravenloft campaign
>one of the PCs is a silver dragon
You realize you can say "no" to players, right?
>>47968721
>I have never been caught off guard and killed during a surprise round
ITT: people who have never actually played Pathfinder fail to realize that alchemical weapons exist and actually martials can fight swarms
>>47968799
That sort of works. Alchemical weapons don't scale, but they're decent for lower levels. At higher levels a fire sword works just fine. There's still some struggle to gather up the pieces though, and there's a bit of a middle period where swarms are killer.
>>47968766
I am aware of this. She is aware of what she signed up for.
Reminder that if Wendigo exist in your setting, there's literally no explination to why there are anything but Wendigo on that planet
>>47968589
You'll always have people being cunts for no particular reason
>>47968834
It's just like a parasite, anon. Plenty of real world parasites reproduce by killing their host, they're not everywhere.
>>47968834
They exist in mine. Wendigo generally do not make other Wendigo on a whim, because any Wendigo is a contender for territory and worship. Wendigo set themselves up as gods and are enormously narcissistic.
Creation of other Wendigos is only ever done grudgingly and under physical compulsion. A Wendigo makes new Wendigo because it is a Wendigo, like other animals may go into heat. A lot of the time the Wendigo will immediately kill the fledgling before it completely transforms. Often if the wendigo fails to kill it in time the two will battle to the death for the territory.
They do not have human-like emotions. Saying "That doesn't make sense they could work together" would make sense if they were human, they are not, they are primordial evils by their own in game admittance. As well just from their lore they much prefer to simply devour victims.
Wendigo hate each other and don't share territory. You'll only have one per every few hundred square miles of suitable wilderness.
>>47968775
>>47968726
>fair fight
>the fighter gets to stealth and surprise round the wizard
????????
>>47968834
How is Golarion not overrun by those fuckers?
>>47968922
Plot armor
>>47967647
1. Wear platemail
2. Don't be a pussy (Being a dwarf helps with this step)
3. BODYSLAM THE WASPS
>>47968721
Unless the wizard is using Simulacrum cheese to try and teleport in enemies for the Fighter to go up against a wizard actually looses to a high end fighter in a formal confrontation.
This is mostly because a Wizard just has a bad time against an enemy it can't hide from and can simply continue moving towards it over all terrains. A fighter on the high end of optimization will have both Su and Ex flight, high enough saves to shrug off what the wizard is throwing.
The only thing he has to worry about is the wizard burning a wish to try and wish him away or some debilitating effect, or a Wish-Geas. However if we're bringing burning 25kgp diamonds into the equation things get screwy all around.
Mostly because on a budget a fighter has saves to cover everything and there are items to cover every specific defense need. Hell last time I did something like this the wizard was forced to flee simply because he was less than 1000ft away. I had the familiar use a dimension door scroll next to the wizard and full attacked. The wizard was forced to pop an emergency force sphere. The full attack busted the EFS and nearly killed him as well (I remember it being something like a 650 damage full attack all in all).
Full damage press is devastating on both sides. Rocket tag at that high of optimization actually comes down to damage being important once more because people's saving throws outpace save DCs, and damage outpaces HP.
>>47968922
Good Necromancer hunting them down.
>>47968922
Wendigo don't like making other Wendigo and don't share territory, so they'll end up killing each other.
>>47968108
For what it's worth, my DDS work is contract work with specific delivery, publication, and payment dates.
DSP work is non-contractual, generally hasn't include any specific deadlines, and gets published when someone has time to get to it, which could be days but is more often months.
I have to prioritize contracted work that I know will pay the bills (which is sometimes writing, sometimes government work, etc.), over non-contracted work that may take 6 or more months to go through layout and see release. Arcforge is on hiatus right now because things like contracts, deadlines, etc. are all still being hashed out, and I've got to put my time to use elsewhere while that shakes out. Adam and I are looking to get Vigilantes of Skybourne wrapped in the next 1-3 weeks depending on how much attention the playtest garners and how many changes to the current materials end up being made.
All the contractual and/or deadline work I've done (Liber Influxus/ Liber Expanded/Ultimate Battle Lord, Spheres of Power: Expanded Options, Genius Guide to Bravery Feats, Wayfinder, etc.) has always been completed on time or ahead of schedule. It's just one of those things, you know? You do the things that you're bound to do and which take care of your living expenses first, and you fit the things that you want to do in where you can.
>>47969128
How did you have the reach to try and whack him? You'd be outside the sphere so even if you smashed it, you'd not have reach to whack him.
>>47968922
>>47969100
>>47969143
They pissed off Babs this one time, and now one of the things she does when she comes back every hundred years is murder all of them but one.
>>47968917
The creatures in the skilled role list of the bestiary won't be fighting fair. That's the point of them. They'll fight smart and deadly, and by surprise more often than not.
A choker is going to hide in a dark corner and wait for the wizard to be unprepared and then strangle him - preferably while the others are occupied by things like fungus monsters and other obvious adversaries. Chokers arent stupid little animals - they are cunning murderers that can pretty easily figure out who is going to kill them quickly (any cleric or fighter) and they can kill by stealth with impunity (any wizard or sorcerer).
A dark stalker is going to fllow the party, steal shit from them, and steal his spell component pouch, any wands he might have, amulets, and other obviously magical shit (since they have detect magic at will, theyll know what items are magical and obvious - you want to see a party flip out, have the dark stalker steal a handy haversack). They'll steal a wizard blind then backstab him.
>>47969159
Unfucked vizier, guru, and daevic when?
>>47969180
I don't really think that any of them are particularly "fucked", but Jeremy has errata and everything in hand and has stated that compiled Akashic Mysteries will be available by the end of this month.
>>47969162
I was huge at the time.
>>47969199
>fucked
>90% of the veils are complete shit and only like 10% are usable
Okay.
>>47969177
unless the stealth rolls fuck them in which case they get rekt.
Which can happen.
Half the point is that a GM has to work about 3-4x as hard to challenge a wizard and contain that madness as they do for a fighter. Fighters are straightforward, but any threat to a wizard is also a threat to a fighter, usually in almost exactly the same way. And fighters have a lot of threats that they can't deal with but a wizard can.
Like when you look at the Tier list, what defines the absolute top tier is the ability to be highly adaptable and deal with many threats, in many ways. Which means a DM has to work much harder to challenge them and make the game fun.
So yes, they are more powerful. There is no threat a fighter can deal with that a wizard cannot also deal with.
The opposite is not true.
>>47969235
A wizard who is not specialized in it simply can't deal with magic immune creatures, like golems. They don't output enough damage with their summons unless they are specialized in summons and prepared to fight a golem (prepared a lot of summon).
A fighter just beats one to death because he outputs far more damage.
>>47969234
I disagree with that assessment, but respect your opinion. If you have some specific examples you'd like to discuss I'd be willing to go over those (though I need to wake up in like 6 hours so I may not be on terribly longer).
>>47969243
Or the Wizard could just build their own Golem
And have their golem fight the other golem
GOLEMBOWL.
>>47969243
>A wizard who is not specialized in it simply can't deal with magic immune creatures, like golems.
"create pit".
>>47969268
Or about 100 other spells that have similar effects
>>47969263
Name a wizard in a game you have played who has taken the time and spent the money necessary to make a golem without 'I just did it in my backstory' and has an actual WBL that reflects that.
I'll wait.
>>47969268
Again, during its time in the pit the Golem just sits and waits. What is the wizard gonna do it it while it is in a pit?
>>47969263
Golems are expensive and specialized, the guy need three feats and a month to build one (well, more or less depending on the golem type). Or one feat if he just has golem crafter.
>>47969272
There is create pit, and creating an acidic pit. Black tentacles doesn't really help because they can't grapple a golem for shit. Honestly spells that don't allow SR aren't that great for actually killing something.
>>47969285
>Again, during its time in the pit the Golem just sits and waits. What is the wizard gonna do it it while it is in a pit?
Move on. Golems are mindless and they have no supersenses or special abilities that would allow one to follow the wizard after he passes its immediate surroundings.
>>47969285
>What is the wizard gonna do it it while it is in a pit?
Bypass it. They're not locked in an arena being forced to fight to the death. The wizard can proceed to just ignore the golem's existence. Or summon a bunch of lantern archons that the golem can't reach and have them keep pinging the golem with DR-ignoring touch-AC lasers until it dies.
Using basic summon monster spells.
>>47969275
>name a wizard in a game
Nigga what that is the stupidest shit i've ever heard in my life I could pick any name i want out of a hat and you couldn't dispute it because you've never been in my games.
>>47969285
walk away? Move on with his life?
Kill it? (he can, Telekinesis, summons, ect)
>>47969275
Ok. Bob, Thomas, Carl, Tl'izzak, and Paul all did. Feel better?
>>47969285
Rock to Mud on the ceiling. Mud to Rock on the now mud-and-golem-filled pit.
>>47969250
Perhaps this is just me, but certain veils seem hardly worth the slot. This is a good example of a hopelessly narrow veil:
Diadem of Pure Reflection
Descriptors: [Good]
Class: Guru
Slot: Head, Headband
Saving Throw: none
This gleaming circlet of purified akasha fortifies your thoughts and grants clarity of vision. The wearer of this holy veil gains a +1 sacred bonus on all saves vs. effects that would cause the dazed, stunned, or blinded conditions.
Essence: The bonus granted by this veil increases by +1 per point of essence invested.
Chakra Bind (Head): [G8] Whenever a veilweaver with this veil bound to their Head chakra succeeds on a saving throw vs. a spell or effect that would cause them to suffer the dazed condition, it rebounds on the originator forcing them to make a save at the original DC or suffer the full effects of the original attack themselves as though they were the original target of the ability.
Chakra Bind (Headband): [G11] Whenever a veilweaver with this veil bound to their Headband chakra succeeds on a saving throw vs. a spell or effect that would cause them to suffer the stunned or blinded conditions, that effect can be redirected to a new target, forcing them to make a save at the original DC or suffer the full effects of the original attack themselves as though they were the original target of the ability
>Be a Merfolk
>buy Decanter of Endless water
>UNLIMITED
>POWEEERR
>>47969301
You're fucking rancid filth
>>47969343
Compare the Diadem of Pure Reflection to the much less niche Courtesan's Cloak.
Courtesan’s Cloak
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic, Guru
Slot: Shoulders, Neck
Saving Throw: none
It’s said this veil was first developed by the famed courtesan Tamakichi to Suzuko who wore it to guard herself from the prying eyes and jealous retributions of her lover’s wives.
The wearer of this veil gains a +1 insight bonus to their armor class against ranged attacks and a +1 insight bonus to saving throws.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil the bonus to armor class increases by +1. For every two points of essence invested the bonus to saving throws increases by +1.
Chakra Bind (Shoulders): [D10] Binding this cloak to your Shoulders chakra gives you a preternatural edge in avoiding unseen attacks. You gain Evasion, as the Rogue class feature.
Chakra Bind (Neck): [D12, G14] Binding this veil to your Neck chakra unlocks its maximum potential; you gain Improved Evasion, as the Rogue Advanced Talent
>>47969250
>>47969343
>>47969357
>getting BTFO by 2hufag
Only Ssalarn.
>>47969357
Here is another poor veil, the Guardian Sash:
Guardian Sash
Descriptors: none
Class: Guru
Slot: Belt
Saving Throw: none
A flash of energy bursts from this akashic sash just as the wearer would take a fatal wound. The wearer of this protective veil is girded from fatal blows. Whenever an enemy would score a critical hit against the wearer, the veil undulates and interposes itself, granting the wearer a +2 insight bonus to AC against all critical hit confirmation rolls.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability, the bonus to AC vs. critical threat confirmations increases by +2.
Chakra Bind (Belt): [G17] Once per round, whenever an enemy’s weapon attack would drop you below 0 hit points, this veil lashes out, attempting to knock the attack away. Make an attack roll with this veil, adding your veilweaving modifier and the total amount of essence invested to your base attack bonus. If this roll meets or exceeds the threatening attack roll, the entire attack is negated.
>>47969377
And a far better defensive option, the Robe of the Forgotten Deity.
Robe of the Forgotten Deity
Descriptors: [Darkness]
Class: Vizier
Slot: Body
Saving Throw: none
In ancient times the world was shrouded in darkness and gods both dark and terrible laughed as the land trembled at their footsteps. While younger, lighter gods have since sealed or cast out those ancient powers, remnants of their umbral essence still suffuses the darkest corners of the world.
When a character forges his chakra into this shroud of primal darkness, his features become faded and indistinct, even in the light of day. Any creature that makes a successful attack against the wearer of this veil has a 10% that their attack will miss due to the shadowy obscuration provided. This obscuration is increased by 10% in dim light or darker lighting conditions. True seeing negates this miss chance, and darkvision or low-light vision negate the dim light bonus, but it is not affected by see invisibility.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil the miss chance increases by 5%.
Chakra Bind (Body): [V20] Binding this veil to your Body chakra makes you one with the very essence of shadow; as a swift action you can meld with shadows granting you the Incorporeal condition for a number of rounds equal to your primary veilweaving modifier + 1 round for each 2 points of essence invested.
Shape Veil (Robe of the Forgotten Deity) is an incredible feat, and by 6th-level, Extra Essence can raise the miss chance to 20%, effectively an always-on Blur.
Is there any way to finesse nat attacks?
>>47969427
You just take weapon finesse. Natural attacks work with it.
>>47969395
Here is a completely dreadful offensive option:
Plaguebringer Gauntlets
Descriptors: [Evil]
Class: Daevic, Guru
Slot: Hands
Saving Throw: see text
A sickly green glow encompasses your hands as your cruel nature manifests itself as corrupt negative energy. You gain the ability to inflict minor wounds as a melee touch attack, dealing 1 point of negative energy damage with a touch. Alternatively, this negative energy can be used to heal undead creatures, restoring a number of hit points equal to the normal amount of damage dealt. This ability can only be used on any specific creature a number of times per day equal to 1+ your primary veilweaving modifier.
Essence: Every point of essence invested in this ability increases the damage dealt or healed by 1d6.
Chakra Bind (Hands): [D4] The reinforced connection between you and your veil allows you to invest it with even more of your cruel spirit. At the time this veil is prepared, choose one Cruelty that an antipaladin of your level would have access to; you may apply the effects of that Cruelty whenever you use your Plaguebringer Gauntlets to damage an opponent, using your veilweaver level as your antipaladin level when determining the Cruelty’s effects.
This, by the way, should clarify how the saving throw DC for the cruelty works.
>>47969285
Why would you need to do anything else? You already get xp for overcoming challenge.
>>47969343
>>47969377
Guru veils in general are intentionally situational and defensively focused, because the Guru has a lot going on outside of its veils.
Diadem of Pure Reflection is situational, but when it comes up it not only saves you from 1 or more of 3 of the most debilitating effects in the game, it forces the enemy who used it (or one of their minions potentially if that's the right call) to save vs. the effect at the original DC, which will often be higher than the DCs the party is bringing to bear since enemy caster's and monsters are typically swinging with higher level abilities.
Guardian Sash protects against critical hits, almost never a bad thing, and can keep the Guru standing for a long time against many opponents, making it a solid tanking option.
Situational =/= poor, especially on a class whose veils are specifically designed towards to being reactive/situational. At least in my opinion, and I don't think it's an uncommon one.
>>47969432
And here is a veil that can allow an unarmed/natural attack daevic or guru to completely destroy their enemies:
Forcestrike Knuckles
Descriptors: (Force)
Class: Daevic, Guru
Slot: Hands
Saving Throw: None
Nearly invisible bands of akasha wrap your hands, lending power to your strikes. The wearer of this veil deals an additional 2 points of force damage with all unarmed strikes or natural attacks.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability increase the force damage dealt by +2.
Chakra Bind (Hands): [D4, G2] Binding this veil to your Hands chakra allows you to create disc-shaped vambraces of pure force energy that grant you a shield bonus to AC equal to the number of points of essence invested in this ability. This bonus is not bypassed by attacks from incorporeal creatures.
Shape Veil (Forcestrike Knuckles) and Extra Essence is an unconditional +6 damage for an unarmed/natural attack character.
>>47969395
Not a Guru veil, so it costs a feat and competes with the Guru's native flight option. You can twinveil it, but that then costs another feat.
>>47969431
>>47969431
They do?
>>47969438
> Only functions against critical hits
> "solid"
> "Tanking"
You fucking what? You wanna explain this thoughtline?
>>47969460
yup
>>47969438
>Diadem of Pure Reflection is situational, but when it comes up it not only saves you from 1 or more of 3 of the most debilitating effects in the game, it forces the enemy who used it (or one of their minions potentially if that's the right call) to save vs. the effect at the original DC, which will often be higher than the DCs the party is bringing to bear since enemy caster's and monsters are typically swinging with higher level abilities.
Except the Courtesan's Cloak can ALSO be taken by a Guru and applies vs EVERYTHING save related and also ranged attacks. It's hard to justify 'A status effect there is no certainty I'll encounter' vs 'I'll make saves today'
>>47969432
It's a mirror of Immaculate Touch, granting an at-will debuff with some rider damage and some healing for undead characters/minions Doesn't provide a lot of damage, but it's not supposed to. It's supposed to allow you to blind/exhaust/paralyze/stun opponents so you can finish them off with your primary offensive option.
>>47969460
Yes. Natural weapons are treated as if they were Light Weapons.
>>47969494
So you shouldn't ever use it until 9th level when you can start applying those?
>>47969460
Yes. Natural attacks are light. In addition, you don't need Two Weapon Fighting in order to use a weapon at the same time as a natural attack (though it makes your natural attacks secondary, thus incurring a -5 penalty, so TWF is generally less punishing. But in the long run it's a lot more efficient due to having so many attacks at full or near-full BaB, especially with Multiattack feat that reduces the penalty to -2).
>>47969250
You have had full lists of what veils are ass posted in your threads since 2014.
>>47969438
>Guru veils in general are intentionally situational and defensively focused, because the Guru has a lot going on outside of its veils.
That is fine, but I do not see why some veils are simply better than others for roughly the same purposes. I do not see a reason to shape a Diadem of Pure Reflection when I could be taking a much less niche Courtesan's Cloak, which will actually help when I get targeted by something that is not a blind, a daze, or a stun.
>it forces the enemy who used it (or one of their minions potentially if that's the right call) to save vs. the effect at the original DC
This is an effect that requires a chakra bind, and only works against dazing and absolutely nothing else.
>Guardian Sash protects against critical hits, almost never a bad thing
The vast majority of enemies that make attacks have relatively non-threatening critical hits, since natural attacks tend to have no expanded critical range or critical multiplier. Even then, it does absolutely nothing against regular attacks.
>Situational =/= poor, especially on a class whose veils are specifically designed towards to being reactive/situational.
They are, in fact, poor when they give marginal benefits against relatively uncommon dangers.
>>47968050
I kinda wanna play a Lava Walker riding the Cherufe Fang aircraft from Ships of Skybourne. You know, the suicide craft that is just a very fast 1-seater with a ram?
With actual HP, I can survive the crash easily. Imagine the horror as some crazy fucking T-rex man crashes his ship onto your deck then emerges from the flaming wreckage spewing magma all over your crewmates and the ship itself. What the fuck do you do?
>>47969485
You're not choosing between the two though; you can have both. They occupy different slots, Diadem's save bonus scales faster since it's more specific, and neither of the Diadems bind abilities require you to invest any essence at all.
>>47969462
It helps prevent critical hits, which is always good for your hit points. It's bind ability works against all attacks, not just crits, that would disable or kill the Guru, increasing his chances of staying alive and functional, good for a guy who's holding the front lines.
"Is just a library? What kind of guardian you will put on a library that could be worse than a Scanderigh or the Headless Lord?"Last words before being obliterated by a Shinning Child [/spolier]
I must learn how to land the hardest punch of all time.
>>47969534
Starting strength training Zaitama style.
>>47969542
I'll go roaring muscles style
what next
>>47969528
The Diadem's however is way, way too specific to justify. It's one of the most specific save bonuses I've ever seen and requires essence investment to even get to a reasonable level.
>>47969528
What creatures have notable critical hit chances and also have a low enough attack bonus that they won't blow through the small amount of crit-only armour?
>>47969560
Pick a brutish race.
Is third party material allowed? Then check the Tome of Horrors complete, there is a anthropomorphic badger race which racial stats are basically +6 to STR.
Third party material is not allowed? Go for a big beetle guy.
>>47969458
I was not comparing guru veils. A guru who wants straight-up defense is much better off with:
Stone Giant's Girdle
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic, Guru, Vizier
Slot: Belt
Saving Throw: none
This Veil takes the form of granite colored bands of energy which wrap about the user's waist, lending him the fortitude and might of a Stone Giant.
This veil reinforces the wearer with the unrivaled hardiness of a stone giant. The user gains 5 temporary hp. The temporary hit points granted by this ability slowly replenish at a rate of 1 hp per minute.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability, the maximum amount of temporary hit points granted increases by 5. These hit points must still be accrued at a rate of 1 per minute up to the new maximum.
Chakra Bind (Belt): [D16, G17, V16] Binding this veil to your Belt chakra allows you draw on the might of the stone giant in addition to its hardiness. The wearer gains access to the Rock Catching and Rock Throwing abilities of a giant. For the purposes of what size rocks he can catch and throw via these abilities, treat the wearer's size as one category larger per point of essence invested and his base slam damage as 1d6 (1d4 for small creatures, 1d8 for large).
Chakra Bind (Body): [D12/20, G20, V20] Your body swells and ripples with muscle as your very Essence is completely infused with the indomitable strength of the stone giant; you gain a size bonus to Strength equal to 1 per 2 points of essence invested. If you have at least 4 points of essence invested in this ability, your melee reach increases by 5 feet.
However, this veil comes with its own problem: scaling. A Courtesan's Cloaks +1 insight bonus is as good at 1st-level as it is at 9th-level; on the other hand, 5 temporary hit points is amazing at 1st-level and negligible at 9th-level, forcing you to spend essence just to have it scale properly (while essence on a Courtesan's Cloak would raise the insight bonus even more).
>>47969528
>You're not choosing between the two though; you can have both. They occupy different slots
Given a limited amount of veil slots, a veilweaver is, in fact, choosing between veils.
>It helps prevent critical hits, which is always good for your hit points.
A vizier gets *far* more defensive benefits out of a Robe of the Forgotten Deity than a guru ever would with a Guardian Sash.
>>47969571
I just want to go beyond on a nerd.
>>47969502
By and large, it's damage isn't all that terrible before 9th level, and it's nice to have on hand for characters/allies/minions who heal on negative energy. A Lords of the Night character is going to be happy they have it. A CHA focused Desire Daevic might grab it for a reliable back-up option when an enemy closes to melee.
>>47969513
I'm pretty responsive to feedback, and I'd disagree with this statement quite a bit. There are some veils that some people haven't liked as much, but which other people have loved (Frostbite Halo probably being the key example).
>>47969526
If you do, let me know how it goes!
>>47969597
>I'm pretty responsive to feedback
That...doesn't seem accurate. Since all your responses so far have been 'Nah, it's fine'
>>47969591
It doesn't give you super strength like All Might, but the Inspiring Vigilante (terrible name) has a lot of rules that sound like All Might stuff, including getting tougher when at low HP from ally cheers, or inspiring everyone around you to be better.
>>47969591
The "badgermen" race from Tome of Horros complete have these stats:
Ryvens as Characters
+4 Strength, +6 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, +2
Wisdom. Strong and agile, ryven characters make excellent rogues
or fighters. Each ryven tribe has at least one
shaman, usually a druid. Ryven clerics worship
Domga, “the Badger God” and can choose any
two of the following domains: Animal, Evil (if
evil), Plant, Trickery, or Strength.
Darkvision: Ryvens can see in the dark up to 60
feet.
Low-Light Vision: Ryvens see twice as far as
humans in conditions of dim light.
Scent: Rivens gain the scent special ability
Racial Hit Dice: A ryven begins with three
levels of monstrous humanoid, which provides
3d8 HD, a base attack bonus of +3, and base save bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3.
Racial Skills: A ryven’s monstrous humanoid
levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (2 + Int
modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Escape Artist and Perception.
Racial Feats: A ryven’s monstrous humanoid
class levels give it two feats.
Born Tracker: +4 racial bonus to tracking by
scent.
Slippery: +4 racial bonus to Escape Artist
checks.
Natural AC: a rivens tough hide provides it with
a +1 natural armor bonus.
Languages: Common. A riven with high
Intelligence scores can choose from the
following bonus languages: Elven, Goblin,
Sylvan, Orc.
Rage (Ex) a ryven that takes damage in
combat flies into a berserk rage on its next
turn, clawing and biting madly until it or its
opponent is dead. It gains Strength +4,
Constitution +4, and -2 AC. The ryven
cannot end its rage voluntarily, but can
attempt a DC 20 Will save each round
to regain
>>47969591
>>47969606
Sorry, forgot to mention its from the playtest over here
>>47968050
>>47968738
Eat a dick despite it being a staple of your diet
>>47969597
>By and large, it's damage isn't all that terrible before 9th level
1 + 1d6 per essence is a terrible amount of damage.
A daevic or a guru would be far better off investing in natural attacks or unarmed attacks and then ripping enemies apart with Forcestrike Knuckles.
>>47969597
You haven't done jack shit here other than wave your hands and say "everything is cool, just ignore all that evidence, shh", so I doubt that.
>>47969597
>There are some veils that some people haven't liked as much, but which other people have loved (Frostbite Halo probably being the key example).
Many of the better veils are, for all intents and purposes, Shape Veil + Extra Essence bait for non-veilweavers.
Any unarmed/natural attack character wants Forcestrike Knuckles.
The Robe of the Forgotten Deity is good defense for any character.
A Solar Wind (cold)-user can pick up Shape Veil (Frostbite Halo) and Extra Essence for +3 damage and 15 points of ignored cold resistance.
A character with Powerful Build can take Shape Veil (Armory of the Conqueror), Extra Essence, and Akashic Catalysts +1 to bring a Large greatsword from 3d6 to 6d6 damage.
>>47969517
>That is fine, but I do not see why some veils are simply better than others for roughly the same purposes. I do not see a reason to shape a Diadem of Pure Reflection when I could be taking a much less niche Courtesan's Cloak, which will actually help when I get targeted by something that is not a blind, a daze, or a stun.
*As I noted Diadem scales faster, and its bind abilities don't even require essence investment. You can have both and shift your essence to the most relevant option as needed.
>This is an effect that requires a chakra bind, and only works against dazing and absolutely nothing else.
*Diadem has two bind options, and the 11th level bind not only reflects stunning and blinding, but allows the Guru to direct that stun or blind to their choice of target, not just the caster.
>The vast majority of enemies that make attacks have relatively non-threatening critical hits, since natural attacks tend to have no expanded critical range or critical multiplier. Even then, it does absolutely nothing against regular attacks.
*I don't know that I'd call any critical "non-threatening". Starting with orcs and moving right on up pit fiends, there's going to be monsters of every level whose critical hits are going to be something a Guru just doesn't want to take.
>They are, in fact, poor when they give marginal benefits against relatively uncommon dangers.
*Are dazing, blinding, and stunning really that uncommon in your games? I ask honestly because I feel like that shit comes up all the freaking time, and those are generally the conditions you least want to fail your save against. I think getting double progression save bonuses and being able to bounce some of the worst effects in the game onto your enemy are some pretty large benefits.
>>47969647
Hey 2Hu, are there any veils that are really good for a Knight Chandler (Katana weaponwise) or a melee character/elemental flux user in general?
I've not looked much into the system.
>>47969655
>*Diadem has two bind options, and the 11th level bind not only reflects stunning and blinding, but allows the Guru to direct that stun or blind to their choice of target, not just the caster.
Yeah but the number of dazing/stunning/blinding enemies is...tiny. The chance of running into one is very unlikely.
>>47969670
Not 2hu, but I feel that Robe of the Forgotten Deity is good for everyone period.
>>47969564
I guess I don't really see those afflictions as being all that uncommon, but I'm willing to acknowledge that there's a lot of room for table variation there and it is a very specific list.
Considering that the AC bonus vs. confirmation rolls scales up at 2 per essence, it actually has a really solid chance of knocking out a lot of critical confirmations, especially since the Guru has several ways of manipulating his AC and debuffing his opponents.
>>47969684
Why not expand the list a bit more? Like put in Silence, Deafen, and maybe Paralysis?
>>47969655
>Diadem slot
A 4th-level guru is on a tight budget of exactly two veils. A 10th-level guru has four veils to work with. Slots are a premium.
You also seem to be operating under the logic of "it is fine if a veil is awful on its own and can be redeemed by chakra binds," which is cancerous logic that leads to chaff options as far as the eye can see.
>I don't know that I'd call any critical "non-threatening".
Regular hits are also threatening. A simple +1 AC can help deflect those and protects against critical confirmation anyway.
>Are dazing, blinding, and stunning really that uncommon in your games?
Compared to everything else that can befall a character? Yes. It is also insulting that the head chakra bind also applies *only* against dazing.
>>47969670
This person is >>47969679 correct. You want a Robe of the Forgotten Deity, since Forcestrike Knuckles, a Frostbite Halo, and an Armory of the Conqueror are all of less use to you.
I've been playing Vermintide, is there a way to make PF combat as fluid and frenetic as that?
I had been working in my horror centric campaign for this summer and I came with this idea:
The first chapter of the campaign (starting from level one and ending at level 5) will deal with the PCs trying to rescue a little girl that was kidnapped by a supernatural entity, the ghost of an aristocrat, while she was stealing flowers from the local aristocratic graveyard to re-sell them.
The reason the girl is kidnapped by the ghost is that the spirit belongs to that or a noblewoman that commit suicide, according to rumors she was sterile and there was an scandal hid by the authorities concerning "experimental alchemical" procedures. The little girl is a cute one, just the daughter she always wanted to have.
As the PCs research a way to bring peace to this spirit they found something horrible concerning the alchemical fertility procedure. [cont.]
>>47969710
Given that Vermintide is a PC action game and Pathfinder is a turn based combat game no
>>47969710
>pathfinder
>combat being fluid and frenetic
Not really, no.
>>47969705
>>47969679
>Robe of the Forgotten Deity
Thanks. Feels a bit sacrilegious for a member of the Silver Flame to learn but looks handy.
What's the upsides to this over say, a cloak of displacement?
>>47969684
At the very least the lower level bind should reflect all the stuff you get a save bonus to. The higher level bind should probably add 1-2 status effects.
>>47969710
Not really.
4e is pretty good for something vermintide-like. It's got good rules for hordes of mooks and excellent rules for interesting terrain during a battle. Something like the Grey Wizard's castle would be very easy to pull off.
Healing Surges are also an excellent resource for wearing players down over the course of a day. Pathfinder tends to not worry so much.
>>47969734
If you get more essence later, or buy an item to give it extra essence, it gives a bigger miss chance. Basically, it can be upgraded with feats and money.
>>47969608
> +4 Strength, +6 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom
Seems balanced.
Wow, Stare of the Ghaele is kinda worthless. Woo, shaken IF they fail and you need to invest points in to upgrade it...and if they fail they are immune for 24 hours.
>>47969771
Combine it with the Pestilence Cloak. Pestilence Cloak also raises its DC and the Stare of the Ghaele can be improved into a Stagger gaze attack. It ends up being hilariously good at locking down large parts of encounters.
>>47969605
When you submit bad feedback what do you expect?
>>47969684
A +2 AC bonus against critical confirmation threats is almost strictly worse than just plain +1 AC.
A Dominion daevic can shape Daevic Blood for a +1 insight bonus to Will saves against enchantment effects and a +1 insight bonus to AC, increasing by another +1 for each essence invested, which is far better.
A vizier has a Robe of the Forgotten Deity.
Why must a guru settle for the horrendous Guardian Sash?
What is more, a guru's Guardian Sash is outdone by a vizier's Vorpal Guards.
Vorpal Guards
Descriptors: none
Class: Vizier
Slot: Shoulders
Saving Throw: none
Sweeping plates of energy cover your upper arms and shoulders and rise in ridged guards that reach past the top of your head.
These massive pauldrons protect your neck and face from deadly blows. Whenever a critical hit is threatened against you, your AC vs. the confirmation roll is increased by +4.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, increase the bonus to AC vs. critical confirmation rolls by +1. In addition, you gain a 5% chance per point of essence invested to negate critical hits or precision damage, as the fortification armor enhancement.
Chakra Bind (Shoulders): [V10] Binding this veil to your Shoulders chakra makes you immune to the vorpal weapon property. In addition, increase the fortification granted by this ability by an additional 10%.
>>47969734
>Feels a bit sacrilegious for a member of the Silver Flame
Call it the "Cloak of Siberys" or what-have-you.
>What's the upsides to this over say, a cloak of displacement?
A Robe of the Forgotten Deity does not cost 24,000 gp.
>>47969759
Do note, however, that even Akashic Catalysts +1 cost 8,000 gp.
>>47969786
>Call it the "Cloak of Siberys" or what-have-you.
Oh, I meant more the big 'Shadow' theme. Since the Shadow of the Flame is one of the big villains of the setting.
>A Robe of the Forgotten Deity does not cost 24,000 gp.
Right. So it's mostly just a money saver.
I might pass on Akashic stuff then. It's a lot of bother for my GM to deal with a new system just for me getting a shiny.
Are there any Essential feats for a Dex-Based Mystic? I have Daisho Expertise and Deadly Agility so far.
>>47969786
>Do note, however, that even Akashic Catalysts +1 cost 8,000 gp.
I am aware. I was just comparing it to a Cloak of Displacement, which you may not be able to improve the miss chance on.
Another awful, awful veil is the Stormcaller's Band, which only becomes good with a 9th-level chakra bind. Even then, said bind is unrelated to essence, and so a vizier should never bother placing essence into the veil.
Stormcaller’s Band
Descriptors: none
Class: Vizier
Slot: Ring
Saving Throw: none
This tiny circlet of Akasha contains the roaring essence of a tropical hurricane. The wearer of this veil gains the ability to unleash a torrent of wind that blasts his enemies, allowing him to make a bull rush against any one creature or object within 60 feet. His CMB for this bull rush is equal to his total character level plus his veilweaving modifier. This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, the wearer gains a +2 bonus to CMB when performing a bull rush with the granted ability and increases the range of the ability by 10 feet.
Chakra Bind (Ring): [V9] Binding this veil to their Ring chakra allows the wearer to cast wind wall as a spell-like ability useable a number of times per day equal to the wearer’s primary veilweaving modifier.
>>47969588
The vizier has an intentionally better veil list, because he doesn't have the class features a Guru has. It's like the difference between a wizard spell list and a paladin spell list, but with more interchangeability if you're going to pay the cost.
>>47969621
Assuming it's a Daevic who wants to go that route. "Caster-y" Daevics who use options like Willful Throw and take DC reliant veils might not have the STR/DEX to deal real meaningful damage in melee, particularly if they're playing on a lower point buy or rolled stats. A touch attack that does something and bypasses DR is better than a melee attack that doesn't have a decent chance of succeeding. And that doesn't even touch on the applications for negative energy healing.
>>47969637
I don't know that there's been any "evidence" for me to ignore up to this point. As far as I can tell, so far we've discussed our differences of opinion and points of view on the veils, and prodded at mechanical relevance. I've explained what the veils brought up are intended to do, and we've discussed what people here, a percentage of all the players using AM, think of them.
If you were present on GitP or Paizo while AM was being actively playtested, I completely rewrote the Vizier and Daevic classes based on feedback from the community. There's like 30 playtesters I thank personally in the Supplemental doc, all of whom contributed their insight and feedback into what would become the final product. Just because someone offers counterpoint and probes deeper into an assertion doesn't mean they aren't listening and taking note.
>>47969647
I don't think having veils that are easy access points and desirable options for non-veilweavers is a bad thing at all, in the same way that a Barbarian who could pick up 1 wizard spell of his choice is going to grab _enlarge person_ over _magic missile_.
Up next in the Akashic Mysteries Special Olympics is the Martyr's Toga. We all know that mid-combat healing tends to be useless for the most part, save for massive spikes of healing or combination attack/heal actions; how can we make it even worse?
Martyr’s Toga
Descriptors: [Good]
Class: Guru
Slot: Body
Saving Throw: none
Vibrant glimmers of essence sparkle within the folds of this alabaster body-wrap. The wearer of this benevolent veil can draw wounds from an ally and take them upon himself. As a standard action, the veilweaver may heal up to 5 points of damage an ally has taken by touching them and taking that much damage himself.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability, the amount of damage that can be shifted is increased by 5.
Chakra Bind (Body): [G20] You gain Fast Healing equal to the number of points of essence invested in this veil.
By designing this.
>>47969843
Have you never played a Guru? This isnt a combat veil. You use it out of combat to heal allies (then another feature to heal yourself), or when healing is low to move damage to yourself since you're generally more sturdy than most of your allies.
>>47969823
>The vizier has an intentionally better veil list, because he doesn't have the class features a Guru has.
The vizier also has significantly more veil slots and the ability to shift them around, making the vizier far more capable of affording situational veils.
>"Caster-y" Daevics who use options like Willful Throw and take DC reliant veils might not have the STR/DEX to deal real meaningful damage in melee
I fail to see why they would suddenly want to make melee touch attacks, then.
>>47969823
>I don't think having veils that are easy access points and desirable options for non-veilweavers is a bad thing at all
Most veils are chaff, which means that most veilweaver options are also chaff, which in turn means that characters should really just pick a veil relevant to them and take it via Shape Veil.
>>47969867
>You use it out of combat to heal allies (then another feature to heal yourself)
A Wand of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing does the same job at a negligible price. Needing two veils for such a simple trick is insulting.
>or when healing is low to move damage to yourself since you're generally more sturdy than most of your allies
I am a little doubtful that 5 + 5/essence damage transference will save the day more than actually taking offensive action.
Game went interestingly, /pfg/.
>proceed from one building to another that is approximately 3 blocks away
>enter the destination tavern, sit down, and order drinks
>characters, still new to each others' presence, launch almost immediately into a heated argument that lasts 2.5 hours of real time
>finally bring it down, agree that this would have happened eventually, and the earlier the better, call it a night
>feel really bad that this was essentially two people having a spat while the other two (GM included) sat there and read paragraph after paragraph of dispute
How was y'all's Saturdays, or most recent games?
>>47969867
Yeah, it's definitely not a combat ability. You set one of your limited slots on fire for the ability to push who's taken damage in a zero-sum way for an expensive action.
Problem is it's also not an out of combat ability EITHER, because at best it lets you save pocket change on healing wands with Seal Wounds. Who fucking cares?
>>47969879
>Needing two veils for such a simple trick is insulting.
Just one. Guru class feature to self heal.
>>47969675
I think it's relevant that "anyone who can cast _blindness/deafness_" counts as an enemy that can inflict the blind condition, but I can agree that it is a very limited list.
>>47969700
I think that's a really great idea. I've just e-mailed Jeremy asking him to add the silenced, deafened, and paralyzed conditions to those Diadem grants a save against, add deafened and silenced to the Head bind, and have the Headband bind offer the Head bind's benefits + blinded, stunned, and paralyzed.
>>47969744
See above.
>>47969821
Why do you feel this is an awful veil? Specifically? Is it the fact that it emulates a combat maneuver?
Anyways, it is 3:30 in the morning and I have to get up and work in the very near future. Have a good night everyone.
>>47969896
Emulates a weak combat maneuver you have little control over (you have to push the target directly away from you) with a poor CMB.
Also, Ssalarn, why in the world are the vizier and the advocate still stuck with 2 + Intelligence modifier skill points? These are not tier 1/2 full casters who can solve any and all noncombat challenges with magic; they are tier 3-ish faux-casters whose abilities are far less narrative-distorting. They could use a little more skill points.
Just because they are Intelligence-based does not mean they need to default to 2 skill points.
>>47969893
Seal Wounds is a terrible class feature that demands essence, and it is obsoleted by a Wand of Cure Light Wounds/Infernal Healing, or a party member's Silver Crane maneuvers.
>>47969896
Night! Thank you for taking my suggestion
How do I add wisdom to reflex saves as a soul knife?
>>47969901
You don't have a poor CMB, you get your entire character level + your veilweaving modifier + 2 per essence. You start out with a CMB equal to a martial character with the Improved Bull Rush feat and then go up from there.
>>47969903
To be fair here, Magus has 2+int.
>>47969951
Advocate had 2+Int before Ssalarn ever got involved in the project. It'd be nice if he fixed it.
