Is there a good mechanical reason to use a melee weapon in Cypher, except for a "nonmagical unarmed character"?
>Point-Blank Range: If a character uses a ranged weapon against a target within immediate range, the attack is modified by one step in the attacker’s favor.
Ranged weapons are more accurate than melee within 10 feet.
>As a part of another action, a character can adjust his position. This is considered an immediate distance, and a character can move this far as part of another action.
>As an action, a character can make a short move. In this case, he is doing nothing but moving up to about 50 feet (15 m). A character can try to make a long move—up to 100 feet (30 m) or so—in one round.
>This is a Speed task with a difficulty of 4.
>A character can also try to make a short move and take another (relatively simple) physical action, like make an attack. This is a Speed task with a difficulty of 4
Melee characters have poor mobility unless they take a special ability.
The "modern" and "sci-fi" equipment are extremely ranged-slanted. In "fantasy":
>Inexpensive: 12 arrows, 12 bolts, burlap sack, candle, rusty and worn knife
>Expensive: battleaxe, cutlass, quarterstaff, sword (all medium); bow, light crossbow (both medium with 100-foot range and no reload)
>Very expensive: Greatsword (heavy), heavy crossbow (heavy with 100-foot range and hidden reload time in page 26)
>Exorbitant: Elven chain (medium armor, encumbers as no armor)
In "fantasy," warriors, explorers, and combat-flavor (free) speakers and adepts can all start with Practiced in Armor and free elven chain.
Between a battleaxe/cutlass/sword and shield (rules for shields are back in Numenera/the Strange), a greatsword, and a bow, the bow is still the best because of range and point-blank accuracy.
Most decent warrior or combat-flavor abilities for melee have ranged counterparts, like Bash and Fury vs. Thrust and Deadly Aim. Mighty Blow works for ranged too. Remember, in Cypher, Speed > Might.
Cypher is simply unpopular, so it seems?
>>47947611
If you use your speed for attacks, you won't have speed left for defending against attacks.
If you focus all your edge and pools on speed, you won't have the might to take hits, resist physical effects like super-science poison and gravities, or even swimming in some futuristic ocean.
Have you ever heard of trade-off?
>>47948204
This logic is flimsy and fallacious.
For one, a character who has Armor 2+ (e.g. elven chain in a fantasy setting) will want to spend Speed Effort to defend only against enemies with devastating attacks. Spending Effort can help mitigate damage, but it is effectively automatic damage to oneself. If an enemy would deal 4 base damage - 2 elven chain = 2 damage to you, then spending 2 Speed points with Speed Edge 1 is foolish.
For two, Might-using characters are no better off against "super-science poison and gravities," because their Might Edge is cancelled out by the fact that they have to spend from their Might pool if they want to have good accuracy and/or damage from their attacks. Considering that Might is the pool that is whittled down by the vast majority of opponents, and that a pool dropping down to 0 results in a debuff, it is imperative to conserve Might.
Investing in Speed is generally better all around (though Intellect is even better on its own). Even if you *do* intend on focusing on melee for whatever reason, the ideal way to go about it is to be a warrior with stealth flavor, take Extra Edge, Practiced in Armor (elven chain), Thrust, and Fleet of Foot, wield a heavy weapon, and then move across the battlefield with relative ease while making Speed-based attacks with Thrust (Might cost goes down to 0 and Speed cost has a -1 discount).
>>47948446
>Might is the pool that is whittled down by the vast majority of opponents, and that a pool dropping down to 0 results in a debuff, it is imperative to conserve Might.
It's also the pool protected by armor, and all pools are whittled in order.
The more focused on might, the more speed defense that character has to spend to avoid "devastating" attacks.
>Thrust(Might cost goes down to 0)
This isn't correct. Because it's base cost is added to effort applied for the attack.
If you read the rules, you'll note that a sample attack with thrust could be: 1(thrust+3(effort)+2(effort) - 1 edge = 5 points.
This is especially crippling to all of the over-costed intellect abilities in the game.
And ignoring that speed lacks many of the multi-attack abilities of might.
You may call the logic flimsy, but you have yet to show anything even remotely close to it not being a trade-off... so:
Have you ever heard of trade-off?
>>47948520
>It's also the pool protected by armor, and all pools are whittled in order.
Of course. This does not change the fact that conserving Might is paramount.
>The more focused on might, the more speed defense that character has to spend to avoid "devastating" attacks.
You are only helping to further my point.
>This isn't correct. Because it's base cost is added to effort applied for the attack.
I am looking through pages 16-17 of the Cypher System rulebook, and I am seeing absolutely nothing that states that Effort and special ability costs are mutually exclusive.
Suppose you have a Warrior with Extra Edge and thus Might Edge 1, Speed Edge 1, and Effort 1. They use Thrust and make a Speed-based attack with a greatsword, with one level of Effort.
Their Might Edge reduces the cost of Thrust down to 0, and their Speed Edge reduces the cost of the level of Effort down to 2 points from their Speed pool.
This is setting aside the fact that the ranged counterpart of this character would be far better off anyway due to how pro-ranged the combat rules are.
>And ignoring that speed lacks many of the multi-attack abilities of might.
Mighty Blow, the premier second-tier warrior ability, works just as well for ranged as it does for melee. In fact, it is *better* for ranged attacks since that effectively gives a free pick of any two enemies on the battlefield. With Extra Edge, Might Edge 1, Speed Edge 2, and Effort 2, a warrior with a longbow can spend 1 Might point to activate Mighty Blow, 3 Speed points to add +6 damage with two levels of Effort, and then deal 10 damage to two enemies within 100 feet. That is an excellent alpha strike.
>>47948520
>This is especially crippling to all of the over-costed intellect abilities in the game.
I am not so sure about that. Intellect is the broadest of the statistics in Cypher because it covers anything remotely mental, from knowledge to perception to social skills. Even without using the rules for focus customization, a 0 XP adept can use adept Resonance Field ability at no cost, or take up the Awakens Dreams or Crafts Illusions focus and then conjure up D&D-style minor images (which require no concentration and last for ten minutes) at-will at no cost.
>>47946771
Oh hey, I remember you from a previous thread.
The simple answer to your question is "No, because Speed is generally speaking better than Might." The more complicated answer involves how Agility, Dexterity, Speed etc. is almost always a 'god stat' in any game in which it exists, and the Cypher System is no exception. You've probably heard that answer before, so there's no point rehashing it.
I recommend that you just homebrew Speed in your game so that it's worse. A good start might making Medium and/or Heavy Ranged weapons have a -1 step penalty when used at any range other than point-blank. Another might be removing the 'move and attack' option from the game entirely, and forcing characters to either (1) do one or the other, their choice, or (2) let everyone do both every turn. You could also toss out existing costs for equipment and use something more abstract, or rebalance them however you like.
I hope this resolves the issue and you create no future threads on this matter.
Pic mostly unrelated, but I find it funny.
>>47948773
>A good start might making Medium and/or Heavy Ranged weapons have a -1 step penalty when used at any range other than point-blank.
Inverting the difficulty step adjustment for the "Point-Blank Range" rule might be a better idea.
>Another might be removing the 'move and attack' option from the game entirely, and forcing characters to either (1) do one or the other, their choice, or (2) let everyone do both every turn.
How would this encourage the use of melee weapons rather than make ranged weaponry even more mandatory?
>>47948843
>How would this encourage the use of melee weapons rather than make ranged weaponry even more mandatory?
How is a tiny advantage with a cost (needing to be able to access your ammunition) mandatory? I think you might not understand TTRPG's.
>>47948764
>Resonance Field
Lasts 1 minute, but takes up your whole turn to activate...
>Crafts Illusions
It's tier 5 ability costs 6 int + the additional points to actually boost the attack roll against the enemy... edge is only subtracted once. Tell me abilities like that aren't insanely overcosted because they're the norm.
The "D&D style" mirror images takes up your action, last one single minute, and die to any violent action immediately
>>47948685
>Of course. This does not change the fact that conserving Might is paramount
Which is why the high Might character has more to save.
>You are only helping to further my point.
Nope. The character who focuses more on might will have less use and more freedom to spend their speed pool. The same is true for int thanks to Foci.
How come you don't want to talk about their differences out of combat, considering that this game purports to be about Discovery?
>>47948843
>Inverting the difficulty step adjustment for the "Point-Blank Range" rule might be a better idea.
Sure, why not.
>How would this encourage the use of melee weapons rather than make ranged weaponry even more mandatory?
Less about ranged weapons, more about removing the Speed 4 check to move and attack at the same time, which incentivizes Speed warriors over Might warriors. But you can take it or leave it, I don't care. Whatever fixes the system for you, buddy.
>>47949035
>Less about ranged weapons, more about removing the Speed 4 check to move and attack at the same time, which incentivizes Speed warriors over Might warriors.
Why can't they just make the game mathematically perfect?
>Whatever fixes the system for you, buddy.
I don't play RPG's, but the analysis is worthwhile.
>>47949016
>How is a tiny advantage with a cost (needing to be able to access your ammunition) mandatory?
In a fantasy setting, if you can afford a burlap sack, a candle, or a rusty and worn knife, you can afford 12 arrows or 12 bolts.
>Lasts 1 minute, but takes up your whole turn to activate...
This can be maintained with ease in any situation where you expect to get in trouble. Then again, now that I consider it, it is better for an adept to opt for combat flavor and take Practiced in Armor instead, especially in a fantasy setting, because that opens up elven chain.
>It's tier 5 ability
That is not what I am referring to. This is what I am referring to:
"Tier 1: Minor Illusion (1 Intellect point). You create a single image of a creature or object within immediate range. The image must fit within a 10-foot (3 m) cube. The image can move (for example, you could make the illusion of a person walk or attack), but it can’t leave the area defined by the cube. The illusion includes sound but not smell. It lasts for ten minutes, but if you want to change the original illusion significantly—such as making a creature appear to be wounded—you must concentrate on it again (though doing so doesn’t cost additional Intellect points). If you move beyond immediate range of the cube, the illusion vanishes. Action to create; action to modify."
Even without the type customization rules, a 0 XP adept can use this at-will with no cost. The utility of this is tremendous.
>The "D&D style" mirror images
I said D&D 3.5-style minor image, not mirror image. These are even better because they demand no concentration and last for ten minutes, and you can have multiple active.
>Which is why the high Might character has more to save.
No, because in a fantasy setting, elven chain is available from 0 XP and encumbers as if it was no armor. Under the modern and sci-fi equipment lists, ranged weapons dramatically outperform melee weaponry.
>>47949144
>elven chain
>exorbitant item... best way of getting it is to find a dragon's hoard
>If the GM even puts it there
ok
>This is what I am referring to:
>"Action to create; action to modify."
>No touch, no smell
So to even make it useful, you have to spend all your actions on it, and it's limited to a 10ft cube.
ok
>elven chain again
>Complaining that in the modern list, guns outperform baton's
ok
>>47949082
>I don't play RPG's, but the analysis is worthwhile.
Assuming you're OP, then why are you having this conversation? Why bother complaining about something that you not only don't intend to play, but is a piece of media in a genre you don't consume? I don't rate hypnotic audiofiles on how ineffective they were when I listened to them in a bright room with my eyes open reading a book. Don't complain about mechanical gripes in a tabletop game when they literally have nothing to do with your interests, present or future.
If you're not OP, 8/10 trolling, would reply again.
>>47949035
>Less about ranged weapons, more about removing the Speed 4 check to move and attack at the same time, which incentivizes Speed warriors over Might warriors.
Perhaps characters should simply have a free short-range movement each turn, unless they are within immediate distance of an enemy.
>>47949213
>exorbitant item... best way of getting it is to find a dragon's hoard
Practiced in Armor lets you "start the game with
a type of armor of your choice."
>So to even make it useful, you have to spend all your actions on it, and it's limited to a 10ft cube.
Nothing is stopping the 0 XP adept from planting 10-foot-cube illusions all over an area, which each last for ten minutes.
>Complaining that in the modern list, guns outperform baton's
I can understand if ranged weapons are "supposed" to be vastly superior to melee weapons in "modern" and "sci-fi" settings, but the rulebook should make it explicit that this is what they are aiming for rather than something more cinematically-oriented.
>>47949323
That's not 2hu fag. That picture ain't no 2hu at all.
You can tell by the lack of a silly hat.
>>47949342
>Type of armor
Type is light, medium, and heavy. That doesn't sound like automatic Exorbitant items.
>Nothing is stopping the 0 XP adept from planting 10-foot-cube illusions all over an area.
Wrong. First, it takes time to make them. Second, if you move more than an immediate distance away (about 3 paces) it vanishes.
>>47949398
>Type is light, medium, and heavy.
Page 184 of Cypher states: "You can wear only one type of armor at a time—you cannot wear chainmail hauberk and scale armor together, for example." An armor's "type" is apparently specific, so elven chain is a "type" of armor.
>it takes time
Not an issue for noncombat trickery.
>if you move more than an immediate distance away (about 3 paces) it vanishes.
Immediate distance is actually 10 feet at most according to page 196, but you are absolutely correct otherwise. I legitimately missed that. Crafts Illusion's first-tier ability is still enormously useful with Intellect Edge 1, although not quite to the degree I had originally advertised.
A good alternative to Crafts Illusion's first-tier ability is that of Awaken Dreams, although it lasts only for a minute, and without maintenance, images can only be static:
"Tier 1: Dreamcraft (1 Intellect point). You pull an image from a dream into the waking world and place it somewhere within long range. The dream lasts for up to one minute, and it can be tiny or fill an area an immediate distance in diameter. Though it appears solid, the dream is intangible. The dream (a scene, a creature, or an object) is static unless you spend your action each round animating it. As part of that animation, you could move the dream up to a short distance each round, as long as it remains within long range. If you animate the dream, it can make sound but does not produce odor. Direct physical interaction or sustained interaction with the dream shatters it into dispersing mist. For example, attacking the dream shatters it, as does the strain of keeping up appearances when an NPC moves through a dream scene or engages a dream creature in conversation for more than a couple of rounds. Action to initiate; action to animate.
"Oneirochemy. You are trained in tasks related to sleep and mixing natural elixirs to help creatures fall asleep. Enabler."
It is probably best to keep to Crafts Illusions.
>>47949559
>Page 184 of Cypher states:
Cute cherry-picking, but I can do the same. Not only that, but Scale isn't even ever listed, so there's no telling whether it's the same as Chainmail (a medium armor) or used as an example of the different types. (A medium and a heavy armor)
>although not quite to the degree I had originally advertised.
That's an understatement, for sure.
See >>47949213
>>47949672
>Continued
If we follow your logic out to it's conclusion, that means practiced in armor would only apply to a single type of armor... So in example, only the Chainmail Hauberk.
Which is obviously incorrect.
>>47949672
Another quirk of Cypher that furthers the hierarchy of "Intelligence > Speed > Might" can be found in pages 340 and 342 of the Cypher System Rulebook:
>Cyphers are (not surprisingly, based on the name) the heart of the Cypher System.
>If a character uses a cypher, the action to use it is Intellect based unless described otherwise or logic suggests otherwise. For example, throwing a detonation might be Speed based because the device is physical and not really technical, but using a ray emitter is Intellect based.
Cyphers are predominantly Intellect-based, and sometimes Speed-based to a lesser degree, so does that not mean Intellect is the driving pool behind "the heart of the Cypher System" and Might is left in the metaphorical dust?
>>47949672
>Not only that, but Scale isn't even ever listed, so there's no telling whether it's the same as Chainmail (a medium armor) or used as an example of the different types. (A medium and a heavy armor)
Since specific varieties of armor can have different statistics and prices, there can never be such a thing as a "generic medium armor" or a "generic heavy armor." For instance, in the "sci-fi" equipment list, the only type of heavy armor listed is the battlesuit, which "also works as an environmental suit."
There is truly no limitation against choosing elven chain with Practiced in Armor.
>That's an understatement, for sure.
At-will illusionry is rather useful for a single first-tier ability.
>>47949695
>>47949745
"Practiced in Armor: You can wear armor for long periods of time without tiring and can compensate for slowed reactions from wearing armor. You can wear any kind of armor. You reduce the Speed cost for wearing armor by 1. You start the game with a type of armor of your choice. Enabler."
The only choice associated with Practiced in Armor is the "type of armor" you start the game with, and there is no such thing as a "generic light armor" or a "generic medium armor."
This ability is poorly-written.
>>47949839
>At-will illusionry
With more downsides than can be listed. It's still a boon though and you trade off other great focus abilities to get it. But any character with even one int edge can use it no matter their other specializations.
>This ability is poorly written.
Yes, it is, but that doesn't excuse your poor reading comprehension.
>The majority of cyphers are intellect based.
What does this even mean? The majority of them aren't even attacks, they just work and require no stat use or roll at all. This is the kind of rudimentary insight you could have if you ever played the game. Does an x-ray vision cypher or a cypher that gives you +5 might unfairly deteriorate the might stat?
>>47949695
>>47949745
>>47949839
To clarify what I mean here, let us operate under the logic that "type of armor" actually means "light, medium, or heavy."
Suppose a character takes Practiced in Armor. They can now wear any kind of armor and reduce the Speed costs for wearing armor by 1.
They elect to start with "heavy armor." What kind of armor do they actually start with, then? A nebulous "generic heavy armor"? If they are in a sci-fi setting, can it be a battlesuit, the only type of "heavy armor" listed, which "also works as an environmental suit"?
There is no "and the armor must not be exorbitant and must not have any special properties beyond its light/medium/heavy" categorization stipulation in Practiced in Armor.
The ability's final line could use a rewrite.
>>47949948
>It's still a boon though and you trade off other great focus abilities to get it.
Some foci are indeed much better than others. I would place Crafts Illusions reasonably high, and Slays Monsters near the top to be sure.
>that doesn't excuse your poor reading comprehension.
Where is the limitation against selecting elven chain in a "fantasy" setting, then?
>The majority of them aren't even attacks, they just work and require no stat use or roll at all.
You are correct; what I should have said was "cyphers that require a roll default to Intellect under these rules." Cyphers that are buffs indeed require no roll, but any that target someone in an unwanted manner run into the rule from page 208 that demands a roll.
>This is the kind of rudimentary insight you could have if you ever played the game.
I have, in fact, played the Cypher System.
>Does an x-ray vision cypher or a cypher that gives you +5 might unfairly deteriorate the might stat?
No, but offensive cyphers that default to Intellect and, to a lesser extent, Speed do.
>>47950050
Offensive cyphers do tend to be better for int based characters. Since a might based character is better offensively at almost all times, having rare one-shots that are sometimes more useful for int-based PCs may be seen as a balance attempt.
Either way, the Might-based will have their int pool either used up in foci or largely untouched and available for full cypher use.
Just as the plethora of cyphers that give out of combat versatility may be considered the same balance for Warriors, the interactions are complex, and entirely determined by what cyphers the GM gives you.
>>47950101
>Since a might based character is better offensively at almost all times
Not as much as a Speed-based character, of course, and certainly not when "offensive" includes noncombat offense such as trying to sway an NPC.
>having rare one-shots that are sometimes more useful for int-based PCs may be seen as a balance attempt.
This seems stilted considering just how expansive the Intellect pool is in terms of the tasks it can cover.
>Just as the plethora of cyphers that give out of combat versatility may be considered the same balance for Warriors
If anything, those can be used to equal effect by both warriors and adepts/speakers.
>entirely determined by what cyphers the GM gives you
That does not stop the baseline from being heavily slanted in favor of certain types of characters over others, which is not a desirable element.
Here is an example entry-level, minimum-XP-for-second-tier archer in a "fantasy" setting. (There is no need to demonstrate ranged weapon supremacy under the "modern" and "sci-fi" equipment lists.) This character uses no customization rules at all.
Type: Warrior
Flavor: Whatever you prefer
Descriptor: Whatever you prefer
Focus: Slays Monsters
First-Tier Warrior Abilities: Extra Edge, Practiced in Armor (elven chain), whatever two other abilities you prefer
Second-Tier Warrior Abilities: Mighty Blow
Pools:
Might 10, Speed 10, Intellect 8, and 10 additional points spread out however you prefer
Might Edge 1, Speed Edge 2, Intellect Edge 0
Effort 2
Recovery rolls 1d6+3 (4 XP previously spent to improve pool recovery)
As someone who Slays Monsters, this archer is "trained in the names, habits, suspected lairs, and related topics regarding the monsters of [their] world," allowing them to identify threats in the first place. They can also pick up more noncombat utility from their two unselected first-tier abilities and their character descriptor.
They have Armor 2 from elven chain and are also "immune to attacks that would captivate, mesmerize, charm, or otherwise influence [their] mind."
By spending 1 Might point to activate Mighty Blow and 3 Speed points on two levels of effort, they can target two enemies within 100 feet, make an attack with each of them, and...
- Enjoy a two-step reduction in attack difficulty and deal 5 damage on a hit, or 8 damage against large enemies
- Enjoy a one-step reduction in attack difficulty and deal 8 damage on a hit, or 11 damage against large enemies
- Deal 11 damage on a hit, or 12 damage against large enemies
With a further one-step reduction in attack difficulty if the enemy is within 10 feet.
An equivalent sword- or greatsword-using melee character in a "fantasy" setting cannot compare in terms of competence.
Yet another issue I see with Cypher is that any time the game hands out the player's choice of skill, such as the Calm descriptor:
>Skills: You are trained in four nonphysical skills of your choice.
Or the Doesn't Do Much focus:
>Tier 1: Life Lessons. Choose any two noncombat skills. You are trained in those skills. Enabler.
Or the Would Rather be Reading:
>Tier 1: Knowledge Is Power. Choose two noncombat skills in which you are not trained. You are trained in those skills. Enabler.
The game effectively gives the player permission to write in overly broad skills, as is explicitly permitted by page 20:
>You could choose a skill that incorporates more than one of these areas (interacting might include deceiving, intimidation, and persuasion) or that is a more specific version of one (hiding might be sneaking when you’re not moving). You could also make up more general, professional skills, such as baker, sailor, or lumberjack. If you want to choose a skill that’s not on this list, it’s probably best to run it past the GM first, but in general, the most important aspect is to choose skills that are appropriate to your character.
Why choose "deceiving," "intimidation," or "persuasion" when you could select "interacting"?
Why pick "climbing," "jumping," "running," or "swimming" when you could write in "athletics"?
This is precisely what makes certain foci very weak compared to Doesn't Do Much and Would Rather be Reading.
>>47950685
Consider the Infiltrates focus:
>Tier 1: Stealth. You are lithe and quiet. You know how to alter your position, your stance, and your clothing to best suit your surroundings. All this combines to give you an asset for stealth-related tasks. Enabler.
>Sense Attitudes: You are trained in sensing lies and whether a person is likely to (or already does) believe your lies.
And the Lives in the Wilderness focus:
>Tier 1: Wilderness Life. You are trained in climbing and swimming tasks. Enabler.
>Wilderness Lore. You are trained in wilderness navigation and in identifying plants and creatures. Enabler.
Both of these are outclassed by a blank check for skill selections.
Of course, the focus that outclasses everything else at first-tier (and possibly future tiers) is Travels Through Time:
>Tier 1: Anticipation (1 Intellect point). You look ahead to see how your actions might unfold. You have an asset for the first task you perform before the end of the next round. Enabler.
This plus Intellect Edge 1 effectively gives an asset on every task, for free.
Cypher truly needs polish.
I believe I have figured out a means through which Might can vindicated, although it does take at least a second-tier explorer.
This is an explorer-exclusive first-tier ability:
>Muscles of Iron (2 Might points): For the next ten minutes, the difficulty of all Might-based actions other than attack rolls that you attempt is reduced by one step. Enabler.
With Might Edge 2, this is a global, unconditional reduction on many Might-based rolls.
This second-tier ability is also explorer-exclusive:
>Range Increase: Ranges for you increase by one step. Immediate becomes short, short becomes long, and long becomes 200 feet (61 m). Enabler.
This lets an explorer make melee attacks out to 50 feet, and also automatically move 50 feet as part of another action during combat. This is superhuman, obviously.
Unfortunately, an explorer will need to sink another ability into Practiced with All Weapons to make use of heavy weapons. The payoff is automatically moving 50 feet and then making a 50-foot-range vacuum slash with a greatsword.
This pairs well with the Slays Monsters focus for extra damage, skills, and immunity to mind-affecting attacks; or with the Performs Feats of Strength focus to emphasize being a strongman with great reliability and accuracy.
>>47952242
Now that I consider it, even in a "fantasy" setting, a second-tier explorer would be better off avoiding the investment in Muscles of Iron and Practiced with All Weapons, and instead taking up a bow and exploiting the attack difficulty decrease out to 50 feet using the Range Increase ability.
Ranged outperforms melee in Cypher yet again.
>>47950182
>Descriptor: Whatever you prefer
It is worth noting just how much synergy the Foolish descriptor has with the Slays Monsters focus by second-tier.
This is everything the Foolish descriptor confers:
>Unwise: −4 to your Intellect Pool.
>Carefree: You succeed more on luck than anything. Every time you roll for a task, roll twice and take the higher result.
>Intellect Weakness: Any time you spend points from your Intellect Pool, it costs you 1 more point than usual.
>Inability: The difficulty of any Intellect defense task is increased by one step.
>Inability: The difficulty of any task that involves seeing through a deception, an illusion, or a trap is increased by one step.
Rolling twice and taking the higher result on *every* d20 roll is a colossal benefit. The main downside of being Foolish is having a high susceptibility to mind-influencing effects, but the second-tier ability of Slays Monsters completely abrogates this:
>Tier 2: Will of Legend. You are immune to attacks that would captivate, mesmerize, charm, or otherwise influence your mind. Enabler.
Thus, this archer has the supremely useful ability to roll twice and take the higher result on all rolls. They effectively cannot spend any points from their meager Intellect pool of 4, but that is fine, because they are still better off at most Intellect-based tasks than the average warrior or explorer due to their sheer luck.
>>47950158
>Autist
>Thinks the int stat is way more than it actually is
Huh, makes sense.
>>47950685
>Posts line saying its ultimately up to the GM
>Claim in same breath that it allows you to ignore the GM
Are you.. I thought 2hu wasn't stupid?
>>47952948
Page 15 of the Cypher System Rulebook tells us:
>INTELLECT
>This stat determines how smart, knowledgeable, and likable your character is. It includes intelligence, wisdom, charisma, education, reasoning, wit, willpower, and charm. Intellect governs solving puzzles, remembering facts, telling convincing lies, and using mental powers. Characters interested in communicating effectively, being learned scholars, or wielding supernatural powers should stress their Intellect stat.
This is a fairly broad statistic in a game that ostensibly is not primarily combat-focused.
Design-wise, having this stand alongside Might and Speed only really makes sense if most Cypher campaigns are expected to emphasize fighting and physical action scenes above other types of challenges.
>>47952990
It is "probably best to run it past the GM first," but the basis for taking overly broad skills like "interacting" is right there in the text:
>You could choose a skill that incorporates more than one of these areas (interacting might include deceiving, intimidation, and persuasion)
If the game did not want characters to have overly broad skills, then it should have written something to that effect, such as, "Any skills you write yourself should be about as broad as the ones on this list. Run any ideas for skills you have by your GM, and they can help you flesh out those ideas."
>>47952804
You say Archer, but that hugely glaring weakness character could be anything? Just like how any character could use the elven chain, even though you're violating the RAW to even get it.
You also keep claiming how one is the clearly superior choice, despite the difference in their combat abilities being basically unnoticeable. A difference of what, one damage point maybe? The might character has armor and can safely spend more to boost damage. That's ignorin the different tasks they will be good at. Your argument looks good that the bow-user gets one extra attack if they fight on a huge, open battlefield. But what about an enclosed space? Not even mentioning that strength can be used for ranged weapons too.
The might character(which I guess is what you're calling one who trains in melee attacks) will be vastly different in his out of combat exploration as well, and be able to take advantage of devastating melee artifacts and cyphers, all while having a much higher effective hp due to armor and higher might.
Did you know foci are universally pickable? You are acting like this is not the case.
>>47953019
Also, going by the example of play in page 405, even perception is an Intellect-based task:
>STEVE: I’m going to check around the door—search for anything strange or dangerous.
>GM: Okay, Steve. That’s going to be an Intellect task.
Intellect covers a vast amount of possible activities, and is a "god-statistic" outside of action-oriented, physical challenges.
Speaking of perception, it is frustrating to realize that a skill as broad as "perception" appears in the same sample skill list in page 20 as skills like "astronomy," "balancing," "biology," "botany," "carrying," and "climbing."
Even first-tier abilities such as this:
>Investigative Skills: You are trained in two skills in which you are not already trained. Choose two of the following: identifying, perception, lockpicking, assessing danger, or tinkering with devices. You can select this ability multiple times. Each time you select it, you must choose two different skills. Enabler.
Place the ever-broad "perception" alongside "lockpicking."
And yes, this really does apply to anything related to noticing details, be it active or passive, as per page 212:
>LOOKING OR LISTENING
>Generally, the GM will describe any sight or sound that’s not purposefully difficult to detect. But if you want to look for a hidden enemy, search for a secret panel, or listen for someone sneaking up on you, make an Intellect roll. If it’s a creature, its level determines the difficulty of your roll. If it’s something else, the GM determines the difficulty of your roll. Being skilled in perception reduces the difficulty of this task.
Why must the system's skills be written this way?
>>47953086
>but that hugely glaring weakness character could be anything
I am using the archer as an example in >>47952804, because the sample character in >>47950182 had no selected character descriptor.
>>47953019
>If the game didn't want something it would say this thing slightly differently because muh opinions.
I recommend you read the rules and don't pick random isolated sentences to draw conclusions.
I miss real Touhoufag who got banned, he wasn't retarded.
>>47953086
>Just like how any character could use the elven chain, even though you're violating the RAW to even get it.
Yes, it is available to any character under the "fantasy" equipment list.
There is no restriction against selecting elven chain in "fantasy" via Practiced in Armor. There is no "the armor cannot have any special properties" or "the armor cannot be exorbitant" stipulation, especially when plate (heavy armor) in the "fantasy" equipment is a "very expensive" item anyway.
>You also keep claiming how one is the clearly superior choice, despite the difference in their combat abilities being basically unnoticeable.
Within immediate range, "4 damage and a one-step-easier attack range" (bow) and "6 damage" (greatsword) are roughly equivalent. However, the bow can attack out to 100 feet, which is a major benefit in a system with draconian and heavily restrictive combat movement rules.
>The might character has armor and can safely spend more to boost damage.
The Speed character is the one who is safer in terms of combat durability, because they do not actually want to spend Speed to raise their defense rolls that often, while they do want to conserve Might to help absorb attacks.
>But what about an enclosed space?
Then the bow-user has increased accuracy.
>Not even mentioning that strength can be used for ranged weapons too.
This is false. Page 199 states: "Melee attacks can be Might or Speed actions—player choice. Physical ranged attacks (such as bows and thrown weapons) are almost always Speed actions, but those that come from special abilities are probably Intellect actions."
>The might character will be vastly different in his out of combat exploration as well
Yes. They are more suited to tasks involving brute force and endurance rather than anything related to finesse, dexterity, reflexes, or stealth. That is not what I take issue with; the supremacy of ranged attacks in combat, and Speed in general in combat, is what I find problematic.
>>47953086
>and be able to take advantage of devastating melee artifacts and cyphers
Ranged artifacts and cyphers also exist.
>all while having a much higher effective hp due to armor and higher might
In "fantasy," elven chain is the best armor option available via Practiced in Armor. In "modern" and "sci-fi," the ranged weapons in the equipment list are simply superior to the melee options.
Either way, spending Might to attack means that the Might-user is no better off in terms of overall durability. Remember, spending Speed to try to avoid an attack is only advisable against devastating attacks, since a Speed expenditure is guaranteed self-damage.
>>47953101
>I recommend you read the rules and don't pick random isolated sentences to draw conclusions.
If the rules did not want characters selecting overly broad skills like "interacting," then the rules should not outright suggest writing in such a skill.
>>47953141
>There is no restriction
And nothing that tells you you can.. even your example lists two armors not in the book like a hauberk.
And once again, might has more effextive hp due to armor and higher might pool.
Try to use your low int stat for this.
>>47953228
>And nothing that tells you you can
I have already covered this in >>47950050. There is no such thing as "generic medium armor" or "generic heavy armor" because each variety of armor comes with its own name, price, and possibly special properties. Indeed, in the "sci-fi" equipment list, the only listed heavy armor comes with a special property.
By your logic of "armor with special properties cannot be taken," a character in a "sci-fi" setting with Practiced in Armor could never start with heavy armor, because the only listed heavy armor is the battlesuit, which has a special property.
>more effextive hp due to armor and higher might pool
I cover this false assumption in >>47953170.
What makes Cypher good?
>>47954264
nothing
>>47954363
Alright. Why is it popular?
>>47954264
Nothing.
>>47954575
Is it a meme game?
I personally enjoy it. Im a fan of the numenera setting. These other guys are getting caught up in a min/maxing rules debate but are ignoring the roleplaying aspects of playing your character
>>47954791
Good rules and good setting aren't mutually exclusive.
>>47954486
Monte Cook.
>>47954791
I can roleplay without the rules. If I'm not better off for having the rules, why am I paying for or bothering to learn the rules at all?
Rules have to do more than just not be bad; they have to actively contribute to the game, because they intrinsically represent a debt of money and time.
>>47955088
>butthurt fighterfag sore over guns being better than swords
>>47955088
The rules provide a framework but trying to wring maximum advantage from them in a system that focuses on story telling is missing the point. Especially when you consider that "the gm fucks you up" is a core mechanic.
For example you could start with that elven mail but you are opening yourself up to shit like
>GM intrusion: you encounter a band of elven reavers, they disapprove of your cultural appropriation
>GM intrusion: the enchantment that make your armour so awesome is failing, you need to get it fixed. Problem is no one's made armour like your for a hundred years
>GM intrusion: A dire magpie likes the look of your shiny armour and swoops in to attack
>>47955441
"Intrusions" are better known to Fate veterans as "compels." They are supposed to be zero-sum for the players, since each "intrusion" grants the players permanent, long-lasting XP which they can then spend on character advancement (or on temporary benefits or rerolls, but this is almost always a blatant scam compared to saving the XP for advancement).
The GM is supposed to perform "intrusions" on the players on a regular basis anyway; using a bow or using elven chain (the latter of which could be concealed anyway) is not going to change that.
Yes, there are XP-less "intrusions" that grant no XP, but the players were going to suffer from those whether or not they used the game's more optimal equipment.
>The rules provide a framework but trying to wring maximum advantage from them in a system that focuses on story telling is missing the point.
In a similar vein to >>47954909's statement, good rules and good storytelling are not mutually exclusive, and in fact, should go hand in hand.
>>47955441
>implying elven chain is enchanted
>>47955620
>good rules and good storytelling are not mutually exclusive, and in fact, should go hand in hand.
They are, in fact. A good story can arise from any system, provided the players involved are willing to roleplay appropriately and the GM is willing to waive or modify certain rules.
You are making objective statements about subjective experiences and it's making you look silly.
>>47957341
>They are, in fact.
>good rules and good storytelling ARE mutually exclusive
Uh...
>>47957341
You are a fucking retard.
>>47946771
How is Cypher?
I'm intrigued by it, but mostly because they let you sell your homebrew on DrivethruRPG.
>>47948446
Oh God are you literally everywhere?
I enjoy Numenera, but I think it's mostly just the world I like.
