/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
Old Thread: >>47887882→ #
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>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
Bone norman ye olde butte hold?
So how about dem Solaris games.
Anyone actually a fan?
>>47944204
I've occasionally made stupid Solaris 'Mechs for fun.
>>47944204
It's a great bit of background, but your campaign has to either be solely about Solaris, or else the players see it maybe once an in game year due to travel. I end up using Judge Dredd progs as inspiration for dealing with riotous fans though.
>>47944204
I run the odd Solaris season, it can be a lot of fun. It's as much about stable management and skullduggery off the field, of course, as it is about dueling. Depending on the group, you may want to use an abstracted system like event cards instead of roleplaying it out with multiple teams and/or forcing all the players to be on the same team.
I wonder if I still have any of the ones I wrote up lying around? Lemme go check.
>>47944628
Got distracted building a paint/display shelf in my hobby room before my ADD meds kicked in again. Anyway, I found the box but not the cards.
Some samples of what I remember:
"Outlaw tech: your team has attracted the attention of a (Regular/Veteran/Elite) tech. Write down his salary in the provided box; this must be paid once per round. Gain 35 Man-hours per week of tech labor at the listed skill. You may "overwork" the Tech, but each 5 man-hours counts as (5/10/15),000 extra C-Bills for your opponent if he attempts to steal this card, and a -1 on the Retention Roll.
• At the end of every Month, roll 2D6. On a modified 2 or lower, the Tech moves on (reshuffle into the deck). On a natural 12, gain a Green Tech card for free.
• At the end of any round, another player may attempt to steal the Tech by discarding a card and making a secret offer to the GM. If it equals or exceeds the current offer roll 2D6, +1 for every extra (5/10/15,000) CB pledged. On a 9+, he gains the services of the Tech.
>>47945416
>LosTech (Minor/Standard/Major/Legendary)
Gain access to 1 item from the Minor LosTech table, and an Entaglement(s). The player may view the Entanglement(s) before accepting by spending 5,000 CB. If he refuses, the GM may offer the item to other players next round at his discretion.
Minor Lostech is usually Prototype versions of anything up to 4t, or things like 2d6 FedCom Freezers or 2d6t of LT ammo/Ferro. LosTech is full-on versions of weapons under 4t, prototypes of larger ones and 'trons, doubled ammo/Freezers, 1d6 real DHS or the like. Major Lostech includes Endo frames and SL vintage heavy weapons and electronics. Legendary is a GM-selected honest-to-God intact chassis or something of equivalent value, but you wind up DEEP in the hole if you take it.
Entanglements are cards used to push players towards pledging to a faction or representing favors owed to benefactors - Mafia connections might give you an ERLL but demand that you throw a specific match, for example. Or VEST could give you a Pink-slip match against a new design.
>""""""Rim"""""""
>""""""Worlds""""""
>""""""Republic""""""
>>47946873
>>47946903
Someone posted this poll to facebook
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll734043x9D1CbBAd-30
Fedfags are everywhere and the FWL is nowhere to be found. Fix it.
>>47947161
>FedCom
>Fed Suns
>Second Star League
battletech fans are trully the plebest of the plebs
>>47947161
>that single steadfast TH loyalist
>>47947238
This poll is stupidly vulnerable to samefagging, you know.
The probability of at least a few people voting FedSuns AND FedCom is pretty high.
>>47947334
damn, you're right
time to rev up some Word of Blake votes
>>47947245
>MFW I'm the lone, sad CNC dude.
>>47947355
Nah, it'd be much funnier to blow some minor shit faction way out in front.
How about "chaos march nations?"
>>47947465
Nah, Corporations
>We Shadowrun now
>>47947465
>>47947495
What about "terran alliance"?
>>47947504
ALLIANCE STRONG
JAMES MCKENNA A DERP FACED SHIT
>>47947355
>>47947465
>>47947495
>>47947576
CRASHING THIS POLL
WITH NO SURVIVORS
Where my Dracs at?
>Alliance and WoB leading
TERRA
E
R
R
A
>>47947161
>all those Blakists
>>47948798
Daily reminder that Conrad Toyama did everything right.
In the post-jihad pre-DA era, how hard would it be for an independent world to set up a production line for primitive mechs and/or low-tech (quikscell-tier) combat vehicles?
How hard would it then be to upgrade the primitive mech line to introtech?
>>47949413
Depends a lot on where the world is located and if it has any friends
>>47949460
>>47949460
>Depends a lot on where the world is located
It's located out past the lyrans, a former RWR planet
>if it has any friends
Those it does not, it's kinda a bandit kingdom
(I'm working on fleshing out the rim territories for an upcoming merc game)
>>47949413
>In the post-jihad pre-DA era, how hard would it be for an independent world to set up a production line for primitive mechs and/or low-tech (quikscell-tier) combat vehicles?
>In the former RWR
'Mechs would be hard, but doable; they'd probably need outside help of some kind, although if I recall correctly that David Xanatos expy was throwing around some serious cash buying up smaller firms and amassing private armies. I could certainly see some kind of post-CS/Blakist influence or another corp wanting a reliable source for SecurityMechs/IndustrialMechs out thataway.
>How hard would it then be to upgrade the primitive mech line to introtech?
Definitely need outside help, plus a lot of cash. On the other hand, MixTech primitive chasses with modern engines, weapons, and armor shipped in from an outside source would be a lot cheaper and easier. That's how Randis and likely Lady Death both got set up with their lines.
>>47949816
Derp, forgot vees:
Qwikscell -tier vehicle plants are literally everywhere, in and out of the Periphery. All you'd need would be a bit of capital for the licensing fees and a few years to get set up; after that, you're in the green.
Either way, expect to get hit by pirates, a lot, as soon as your 'Mech line is really producing; even primitives are a huge draw, and it'd be hard to keep a lid on that kinda thing for long.
>>47949413
I've been working on an AU setting in the early republic era with a lot of independent worlds.
my rule of thumb is that vehicles are pretty much guaranteed after about 10 years of the same government, primitive mechs after 20-30 years and getting SFE tanks around the same time, roughly, with outside trade, (which would be unlikely for a bandit kingdom), or if there's some other factor. in your case, people restoring a ancient and dilapidated RWR mech factory to produce primitive models would be a doable reason.
upgrading to introtech would definitely need either significant outside help, say from a medium periphery state or non-great-house IS faction (I suppose that maybe one of the ex-FWL states funding it to keep the lyrans on their toes is theoretically possible, if unlikely) mixtech semi-primitive stuff like >>47949816 is talking about would be much more reasonable, as might refitting some primitive mechs with more modern gear captured by the bandits who run the place (along the lines of the MAD-4H)
anything above introtech would need some SERIOUS justification for domestic production (in my AU, there's exactly one world with that, and it's because the haseks are using it to build up a secret army outside of republic treaty jurisdiction)
anyways, I would think that about one or two primitive mech lines and three or four tank lines would be about right for the rim territories by 3100-15 or so. maybe add a bug line by the 20s (bugs seem to be the easiest thing to build introtech-wise)
>>47947161
>Porchbux Principality
>LYRAN COMBINE
>Clan Homoerotic Panther
>Federated Suns
Which one of you did this?
>el atlas
>Boiled Dungeness Crab with Fennel
>Mince enough of the most tender fennel fronds to make 2 tablespoons, and mince enough of the bulb to make 1/4 cup; set both aside for the Fennel-Lemon Tartar Sauce.
>Coarsely chop the remaining fronds, stalks, and bulb, and place in a large (at least 8-quart) pot.
>Add lemon slices, 1/4 cup salt, and enough cold water to come within 3 inches of the top of the pot. Bring to a boil over high heat.
>While water is heating, set crabs on a rimmed baking sheet or tray, and put them in the freezer. (This dulls their senses to make handling them easier. The crab should be well chilled but not frozen; don't leave them in the freezer more than 30 minutes.) When water has come to a rolling boil, grab each crab securely at the back of its shell, and gently but swiftly drop it headfirst into the boiling water.
>Cover pot, and return water to a boil, reducing heat to medium if necessary to prevent water from boiling over. Cook crabs 18 to 20 minutes. Carefully drain. Clean crabs, and serve hot or chilled with Fennel-Lemon Tartar Sauce, Bloody Mary Cocktail Sauce, and Ginger Butter.
>>47950200
This job never gets old.
>>47951952
*joke, even
Fuck you, autocorrect.
So what is this Against the Bot thing I see in the OP? I play Megamek, and it doesn't have any maintenance rolls or these other details.
>>47949816
>>47949843
>>47950045
Alright, thanks guys, I'm thinking two primitive mechs on different worlds, one SFE, one FCE and three ICE tanks total for the Rim Territories. I'm thinking a primitive rifleman and maybe an archer or maybe even an emperor
>>47949614
>>47949816
here
If you want suggestions for some possible designs to revive:
The RWR designed the Phoenix, which is a bit of a shitter but exactly the kind of thing that the SLDF would just bomb the factory for and give up on. It would be fairly easy to upgrade with some modern-spec gear.
If you do have a working vee plant, you could try for something like the Diesel Thunderbolt we did in 3063 - ICE or Fuel Cells, cheap and common weapons skewed towards ballistics, and a few stripped frames (maybe stolen "demilled" stuff that a salvage company is shipping out "for scrap" from the Republic?) with vehicle-grade armor. That's more of an outlaw yard thing than a factory line, but it'd be a good way to get ahold of some variety, or more intimidating rides without having to spend quite as much dosh
Also my mouse broke so replies will be a bit sparse for the nonce.
>see anons on /btg/ talk about how the FWL is big on combined arms warfare and has been for a long time
>check out the FWL's line of tanks
>it's practically the worst of any Successor State
Not trying to be rude but it surprised me. Even the Draconians have Demolishers and Manticores.
>>47953792
Everybody has Demolishers and Manticores.
>>47953998
You're not wrong but the Dracs also get the Narakumi (sp?) and other shit. The FWL gets hammered pretty bad on crap designs thanks to "Lol LGRs" and the way the FedCom got every vehicle that was remotely good between 3050 and 3145.
>>47953998
Is that true? I was reading their field manuals and the Marik one didn't mention them. Where can I find a vehicle RAT for the FWL?
>>47953998
Maybe but the Dracs and for some reason even the Canopians manufacture the Manticore while the FWL doesn't. He's not wrong about the poor tanks lines they have.
>>47954026
As it should be. FWL is basically an NPC faction, so they're vehicles need to be generally crap.
>>47954258
Lol too right m8
>>47954258
This explains why TRO 3145 FedSuns is the worst of them.
>>47950200
>the subtle weight shift onto the right leg as the king (queen) crab walks forward
It's the little things
>>47954435
No in the sequel they're the protagonist
>>47953792
Ontos comes in a solid normal version and a nasty lurm version. Burds like guntrucks, look at the Bulwark.
>>47954435
Rekt
Does anyone know where I'd be able to buy some metal Celestials (or any of the WoBbie designs, actually) in the EU.
Ral Partha Europe don't seem to have any of them.
>>47954033
Plenty of places. FM Updates has one circa 3067, Brush Wars has two, one for Anton's Revolt in 3014-15, another for the Andurien Wars of the 3030s, Clan Invasion ones are in ER 3052 and 3062 FM 3085 has one for post Jihad former FWL states, and FM and ER 3145 both have one for the FWL/former states covering the DA.
>>47954819
>Clan Invasion ones are in ER 3052 and 3062
Actually, scratch that. Those two just have generic IS RATs as far as vehicles are concerned.
>>47954819
Oh cool, I'll check them out.
>>47950078
nova cuck detected
>>47954059
Tank production in general is an utter clusterfuck
>>47954813
I'd hook you up m8 but my provider is in Britain and that's not in the EU anymore
>>47950078
>clan homoerotic panther leading by 12% to the next
CLANS STRONK. PRAISE KERENSKY.
>>47958281
Well, your shipping rates are horrendous anyway.
Also, do you not wish to the glorious cause of Blake?
>>47958407
I voted best Clan but few seem to like it.
>>47958559
Nova Cucks should have left the Combine as soon as possible. Don't know what insanity possessed them to try and reside in a culture utterly alien to them that hates nonconformity.
>>47958636
Bullshit mystics more concerned with the big black dragon than anything else.
At least the Spirit Cats are going old school to survive.
>>47952828
You need to use MekHQ.
Battlebump
>>47960483
instead of just bumping why don't you bring up a topic?
Anyone else have options to get decently priced Jihad-era mechs in western Europe?
>>47960602
Sure, why not?
How about a design challenge?
Let's do one for Solaris dualing machines that can also operate on the battlefield
I can't wait
Can Battletech be madespooky, /btg/?
>>47961040
Certainly. Howspookydo you want to be? Regular everyday paranoia, THINGS MAN WAS NOT MEANT TO KNOW!, orEveryone with a cyborg body is just a MD waiting to get free?
>>47961069
Anything works, I'd say.I have heard that the in-universe science behind jump technology includes a bit of the second, for that matter
>>47961069
What if some prominent RotS characters are really MD?
Sure they're supposed to die after a few years but they say the same thing about EINI and there have been characters with those that live for decades.
>>47961040
Yes, but it takes a lot of work and requires working outside of the 'Mechs. Put a couple Wraith Adepts or Zombie packs into a city and give the players anti-borg rifles, PA(L) and a couple BAP scouts; they have to find the Blakies before they kill all the target civvies. Use hidden movement and a couple trucks capable of generating Ghost Targets for extra fun. You want an atmosphere of frustration, a bit of gore, and rapidly-dwindling time/resources, in multiple scales. One where the 'Mechs are >almost< as scary as the shit the Blakie infantry is packing.
>>47961111
>X-COM terror mission, against Wobbies
I fucking love it.
>>47960723
>et's do one for Solaris dualing machines that can also operate on the battlefield
Sure, I'm enough of an asshole for this. Clanners take an old PHX chassis and upgrade it to clanspec - and adding a partial wing. It's appallingly fast, hits like a fucking truck, and has plasma to fuck with TSM monkeys' heat. The engine got downgraded, but the only time this thing stops flying is when it kicks off another horizontal surface, and the Tarcomp and clan pilot compensate for most of the violent motion sickness it induces. L-AMS deals with Thunderbolt rounds and missile boats, and it can consistently choose engagement range with enough ammo and armor to survive the few hits that can land on a target jumping almost 300 meters in 10 seconds.
>>47961463
I can't believe you've done this
>>47961615
Basically I just wanted a Pixie that actually >acts< like a Valkyrie does in the series, including the switchable L-AMS/pulse laser in the head. (I'd add a quirk to that effect). It does take a HELL of a shot to use this thing effectively, and the explosive arms are not exactly ideal, but dear God it's evil.
As far as defending against it, I'd be playing with clusters of LB-X cannon (tens and twenties) or SBGRs and a tarcomp, looking to black out the pilot or force a knockdown roll and take off one of the arms. It's also really vulnerable to heat if you can catch it, since it doesn't have much margin on the weapons. Then there's the awful shit you can do with a cluster of Light-fives, Precision, and a Tarcomp.
>>47961950
>As far as defending against it, I'd be playing with clusters of LB-X cannon (tens and twenties) or SBGRs and a tarcomp
That combo has actually been retconned into not working; LBXs only get tarcomp bonuses with solids, and a SBGR plain can't use one. So it's down to massed precision-5s for tarcomp use.
Or artillery cannons. Those also work.
>>47962190
>>47962190
Mmmmmm, Arty cannon. Also FASCAM, thinking about it, although mines would take quite a few rounds to get effective - even from a Bandersnatch.
I might also try something with flippy arms maybe VSPLs, and capped TC snubbies, thinking about it. The ranges on its weapons require it to get into knife-fighting range anyway, and you can alpha if it slows down and then cool off while it gets bouncy again.
>play AtB
>Get two pitch-black Chase scenarios in a row
>20 turns of jumpjetting back four hexes and everything missing
How bad would the game break if you allowed C-RAM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heLuUd0VK2s
Basically think an AMS that could try to intercept artillery.
>>47964776
not very badly. Artillery is a fairly minor factor in the game
>>47965134
Fair enough I suppose.
>>47965134
>>47965272
Well, generally speaking Artillery's not that big a deal as long as you only play small games, or games that only feature 'Mechs, Vees, and Infantry.
If you move to Battalion or larger games, or incorporate ASFs, LAMs, and things with 9+ Jump artillery is one of the few equalisers to their transparent bullshittery.
If you do create and allow C-RAM, and you're playing large games, games with ASFs and LAMs and long Jumpers, enjoy your assrapings.
>>47965134
t. Nation that has never been crushed by the might of the Star League Artillery Corps
>>47966829
>t. Nation that has never been crushed by the might of the Star League Artillery Corps
I don't think that any nation actually was, come to think of it. The OA was beaten because the SLDF makes the SS look like the peace corps, the TC by orbital and nuclear bombardment, the MoC by beating them in a mech fight, and later on the RWR, which was again beaten mostly by mechs
Are plasma rifles cool?in b4 "no, actually, they're quite hot"
>>47968319
They're basically a PPC that also causes heat and MURDERS all conventional units. They're fucking amazing
>>47968319
The Capellans have an Urbanmech variant that carries a plasma rifle in place of the traditional AC/10. Because Urbanmechs are exclusively used for urban defense, see (they're simply too slow for any other role), which means you're literally never going to deploy it anywhere except your OWN cities, so obviously the sensible thing to do is equip it with a weapon that STARTS FIRES.
The plasma rifle's light weight means the mech can also carry a couple lasers as backup weapons, but you know if they could have figured out how to make a SRM-2 shoot custom warheads loaded with millions of plague-carrying fleas they would have spent the tonnage on that instead.
>>47968711
Amazing.
>>47968711
>so obviously the sensible thing to do is equip it with a weapon that STARTS FIRES.
The liaos aren't exactly known for placing a high value on the lives of their subjects
>>47968711
There are people who actually take the Capellans seriously.
>>47968980
I once made a Liao-fluffed SecurityMech type industrialmech that was fission-powered and equipped with a searchlight and a pair of small pulse lasers. Intended for nothing more than helping to keep dirty peasants off of your manor's lawn. The fission engine was for A) lulz and B) if somehow the dirty peasants do somehow breach the thing there's a chance it could give them all radiation poisoning.
>>47968541
Don't forget that hits to Plasma Rifle ammo don't cause an explosion.
>>47960973
What's Campaign Operations about anyway?
>>47969059
Yeah, also that
>>47969169
You know the rules bloat that forced material from TacOps into StratOps and IntOps?
It's about more rules bloat.Also bad layout, poor fact-checking, and a total lack of playtesting, but welcome to all CGL products.
>>47969169
Operating a campaign, duh.
>>47969169
It's gonna be like FMMR, but, y'know, worse
>>47971706
damn, really slow today
what about we build a mech together?
>>47973759
>damn, really slow today
Well, all the regulars are probably still too passed out/hungover to really do much of anything yet
>>47973847
Not passed out or hungover. I'm working on the TRO and trying make a coherent plot for the next six in game months of my mercenary game. I'm hoping we can get some more art going soon. I really like one of my quads that got in.
>>47971706
what are you doing humans
you cannot kill robot with little human rifle
stop that humans
you are silly
>>47973847
If I was hung over I'd probably also be dead since I'm helping roof a house.
>>47973759
Design challenge: Take a mech of your choice and make a Blake variant of it. Also post some of your thoughts during creation.
>>47974942
This is a precentor ride for my current campaign. Basicly the final boss for the PC.
I wanted to use some newly available tech and a zombie machine with a shortrange punch.
>>47975100
forget the image
How do you guys feel about Alpha Strike? It's the only version I can trick my friends into playing since the barrier to entry is so much lower.
The balance seems kind of fucked, though. I want to make a couple 300ish point companies from various houses for an on-going campaign, but many of the point values seem really suspect.
Also not a fan of how many shooting rounds I can go through without hitting a fucking thing. Jesus.
>>47975491
I'd like it more if all the weaponry wasn't condensed into a single block of abstracted firepower.
>>47975574
>condensed into a single block of abstracted firepower.
Isn't that what the original Battledroids game did at its most basic level of rules?
>>47975491
>The balance seems kind of fucked, though.
you are using the old system, the one they simply divided BV by 100. The new one is way better, calculated directly by AS stats
>>47975769
I'm pretty sure I'm using the newer one - I got the laminated cards since they're pretty neat. It's like, looking at the Awesome and... Banshee, I think it was, they had the same movement, armor, and structure, but the Banshee had an extra damage and rear firing. Cost a whole one more point.
I've been thinking of making skill 3 the default for when we play instead of 4 so we don't go through entire shooting phases with no one hitting anything, but I fear that'll impact the viability of smaller mechs.
Other than that, I'm lamenting the lack of decent minis. Lost most of mine at some point years ago and boy am I surprised to see IWM is still charging $12+ for dated sculpts/casts and poor Catalyst limited to selling a few 'game aids' with AS cards. I was hoping they'd finally get all the rights issues wrangled by now.
>>47975763
It's also what 3rd edition Epic 40k did and look how that turned out.
>>47975941
Eh, problem is, as I see it, the core/classic rules go too in-depth. It's like, look at all the rolls you have to do for LRMs or LBX. That's a huge turn off to most players.
When you've got people just starting out, a game with four mechs a side can go for fucking hours and hours due to all the table and rule look ups even for the 3025 ruleset.
I was thinking of experimenting with something where a person rolls for each point of damage, but without a heat system in place it'd probably be too powerful.
>>47975491
If I remember rightly the usual consensus around here is that it's a decent enough game for casual fun, but doesn't quite capture all that's great about Battletech. It's like comparing ODI to first-class cricket.
>>47976108
>Eh, problem is, as I see it, the core/classic rules go too in-depth.
It's an 80s strategy game, did you expect differently? It's from a time when your average gamer had an attention span much longer than today's drooling cawadooty kids.
>>47975923
I don't know where you got the "fucked" part. The better unit seems to cost more; the advantage isn't that big, so it costs only 1 point more.
if you are talking about these two variants
>banshee
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/247?skill=4
>awesome
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/178?skill=4
you also forgot that Banshee does one more point of damage at long distance
>>47976260
Is it a lack of attention span or because there was not much else to do for the guy who stayed inside more often than not?
I like the detail, but there was never a Battletech group where I lived so I never got to play with anyone. Just kind of had the rule book and some miniatures and would 'play' against myself.
Even with that, I still don't know even the core rules well enough to go through a game without looking at the book.
I'm honestly turned off playing with more experienced players because I know I'd slow down their game immensely.
>>47976431
Right. I find it odd an extra damage only costs one more point. I need to look into the calculations to see how everything is weighted.
>>47976538
>Is it a lack of attention span or because there was not much else to do for the guy who stayed inside more often than not?
I'll admit that being the bitter old bastard I am I might be somewhat uncharitable. These days it's even more important to be able to find the right sort of people to play this game with, yeah. If you can't, you're probably better off trying to rope people with AS and seeing what comes from that there.
>>47974329
>pew pew
>I have pistols fuck you giant robot
>>47977751
>those two fuckers not wearing helmets in a combat zone
I hope that Marauder steps on their idiot asses next turn.
>>47977751
The level of detail in that pic is fucking epic...world names can be clearly made out in LC and FWL space...plus, the pilot's name on that Marauder...
Thank goodness Shimmy and Flying Debris are among the current crop of BattleTech artists...they are one thing that CGL is doing right.
>>47973847
>Well, all the regulars are probably still too passed out/hungover to really do much of anything yet
My niece was visiting all morning, then I went on a date with my wife, and I've spent the last two hours simultaneously frying chicken, making a bookcase, and doing research on traditional Haida and Tlingit bone-crafting techniques.
>>47974942
>Design challenge: Take a mech of your choice and make a Blake variant of it. Also post some of your thoughts during creation.
Okay, here.
Thoughts:
I have a bunch of silly Assassin variants, why not? So what's an Assassin for? Deep raiding and Bug hunting. Let's fiddle with that.
Oh, shit, I forgot about that one silly c3M ASN I made, let's update that to Blakist standards.
Required gear: Energy in the arm, 2 missile pods, standard Blakie 'trons.
6/9/6 isn't fast enough for a raider in the seventies, but I'm sick of IJJs, especially after the Penis Hawk; let's go with MASC. Fuck it, Supercharger too.
...
(armors hips, engine, cockpit, and compact gyro)
There, this fucking node isn't going anywhere. Go fast you beautiful abomination.
Weapons? Well, short on tonnage but not on space. I could go with a MVSPL and rockets, or a flamer/LPPC/rocket combo. Take the latter, make former an option for suicide pilots or possibly the Solaris Resistance antecedent (the aforementioned c3M ASN).
..Damnit, clicked it up to 50t by mistake. Ah well, throw on ferro too. Not like the Blakists care about cost, after all.
...
The fuck, you say? 2m LESS expensive? Okay, whatever. Time to post this bitch and throw it in the c3i network with the Toyamas, Initiate, Se'irim, and the Gurkha next game.
>>47975923
The laminated cards are for the first version of the game. They don't include the most up-to-date rules, since those came out like three weeks ago.
>Making default skill 3 instead of 4, lighter mechs?
Well, if you move lights a lot and keep them at Medium range, they're actually pretty damned survivable in AS. Especially since they may go internal in one hit, but you're no longer guaranteed to lose a location when they do. The AS crit charts are WAY more forgiving than in BT.
>get the rights issues wrangled
Sadly, Jordan Weissman is criminally retarded in all matters concerning IP law. That's literally never going to happen unless IWM somehow goes out of business.
>>47976151
That would certainly be my opinion.
To elaborate - what I love about BT is that it's an RPG skirmish game. Paradoxically, it's actually more visceral and immersive to me than the faster-playing Alpha Strike. On the other hand, AS is great for doing crazy fucking shit that actually lets me USE more than a dozen of my 200+ 'Mechs. I also use AS for backyard games with my 1:144 models from the Museum Collection, Dark Age, and Japan. Just multiply the ground move speed by 6 and keep the levels 2" high, and you're in business. It makes for a much more exciting game, and it's way closer to the actual ground scale (6" wide =1hx, 1.2" high = 1lv). Can do it with the regular sized stuff too, but I'm not painting my "good" 'Mechs with day-glo bases so I can find them after the match either.
Anyway, once you've got MASC Locusts going 66" in a turn across your backyard, and LRM turrets with a range of 250", it starts to make the scale feel a bit less silly, and that's only half of what it should "technically" be.
>>47980619
>The laminated cards are for the first version of the game. They don't include the most up-to-date rules, since those came out like three weeks ago.
Really? When I compare the cards I have to what's on masterunitlist, the values and such are a match. I also can't find anything on Catalyst's website about a rules update.
At some point I'd like to try running an RPG/Campaign for my friends.
>>47981581
I think that anon is mistaken. There are two laminated sets, and the PV update is almost 2 years old already
Hey /btg/, I need some suggestions.
I want to run a mercenary/RPG campaign starting at the end of the initial clan invasion and leading up to Operation Bulldog. Which of the RPG systems would be best? Which sourcebooks should I be reading?
>>47981771
first question: how much detailed do you want your campaign?
>>47981745
I could be, I just thought Xotl said something about a PV update a couple weeks ago when he did the huge errata dump.
>>47981581
Updates go in the errata forum ( http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?board=82.0 ); I might have been confused by something else. When in doubt, I go with the MUL, but it can take the three guys that work on it in their spare time a while to catch up to a rules change (for some reason).
>>47981819
Quite detailed on the mech side, not as much on the out of cockpit RPG stuff, cause that's mostly sideshow stuff
>>47974942
>Take a mech of your choice and make a Blake variant of it.
WoB Blitzkrieg.
>Also post some of your thoughts during creation.
BLAKE'S LIGHT SHALL ILLUMINATE THE UNBELIEVERSAll the Arrow ammo is nukes.
>>47981889
I don't know about the RPG aspect, have you tried A Time of War: Quickstrike Rules?
IIRC, Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised has rules for campaings. You may want to wait a month or two and see if Campaign Companion is released
>>47981771
>which RPG
Mechwarrior 2e or 3e are gonna be your best bets
>which sourcebooks
TROs 3050-58, obviously, Merc Handbook 3055, FMM (original), FM: DC, FM: FWL, FM crusader clans, Warriors Of Kerensky, the wolf and falcon sourcebooks, periphery 2e and chaos march if those regions interest you at all, the old Solaris set if you want to go there, ComStar SB if you want to involve them guys
>>47982892
>not a single mention of Era Report: 3062
>>47983039
Durr. I completely forgot about that. I was looking at my pile of older print books, not online.
>>47981828
There are three AS unit card decks that have been sold.
Ad Hoc, the first set, is pre-Alpha Strike Companion. Has old (BV/100) PVs, no REAR special ability, a couple other changes missing. this was the only deck ever available outside of conventions (other than second hand) , being POD at drivethrurpg. (2013)
Ad Hoc Upgrade, is the same set updated to post-ASC. (2014)
Then there are the collective Lance Pack cards, but they're not available in a deck. These were also post-ASC.
Most recent deck was 3039-5050. It was released at last year's conventions (2015).
There may be a new deck this year, but there wasn't one at Origins 2016.
There have been some minor PV updates since ASC, I recall one for aerospace fighters with move between 7-9 for example, with the errata that gave them extra movement on the abstract map.
There's also one being considered for TMM3+ units.
The MUL is generally kept updated on PV and AS cards.
>>47984570
Groovy, thanks for the explanation. Busy drilling the pilot holes to screw the new shelves together, gonna lay off for the night once that's done.
What's your favorite mech, /btg/?
Now, how many urbanmechs do you think it could kill on it's own, assuming a situation where one urbie enters from one end of the maps each round, on a 3x1 set up of flat, open terrain?
>>47984931
Well, one, maybe.It's also an urbie
>>47984931
...Which Urbie?
>>47984931
Depending on tactics, a Bandersnatch could actually handle quite a few before it went down. At least if I can have Thunder ammo..
>>47984931
>What's your favorite mech, /btg/?
Dire Wolf Widowmaker.
>Now, how many urbanmechs do you think it could kill on it's own, assuming a situation where one urbie enters from one end of the maps each round, on a 3x1 set up of flat, open terrain?
How long you want this game to go for? If it's got a decent pilot it can shoot down a steady stream of them, probably before they even get into LB-10X or A/C-10 range themselves.
Of course it dies to one Nuclear Urbie.
>>47985383
The classic -60
>>47984931
The classic Mackie vs infinite Urbies? Uh, maybe a full lance or possibly even a reinforced lance (6 units) before it either runs dry on the bins or they plink it to death.
>>47985549
>Dire Wolf Widowmaker.
Ho boy
>it's a clan cheesemech episode
>>47984931
Hrm. Well shit. A mackie-9H could probably get 3-5 with the PPCs, but would probably have trouble bringing the AC/20 into play. If it did, though, that's probably another 2-3.
So probably 5-9 urbies, overall. Could maybe hit 10 if they got close enough to kick
>>47985549
>>47985683
>>47985909
>>47985946
>>47985946
>>47985421
>>47985057
Realistically, we all know that Princess would crash after about 12 Urbies hit the map.
Godfuckingdamnit, FASA. The scenario is about someone playing "chicken" with Shadow Hawks and stealing lostech books.
>>47985909
>It's not BattleTech unless it's 3025-only, final destination! No fun allowed EVER!
Go back to the official forums, grog.
>>47986142
Sure, but you're a coward who's never had more'n one princess at a time
>>47986655
I realize you have a stick up your ass, but until the Hellstar the Widowmaker was literally the epitome of Clanner Cheese. It's still Top Five material and that's 20-odd bloody years since it debuted.
>>47987073
>bawwing intensifies
Show me on your picture of the Dire Wolf where the bad post-3025 player touched you. It's OK, this is a safe space.
If you can't deal with something costing over 3K BV with a 4/5 pilot by itself the problem is that you need to git gud and stop bitching. There's a whole realm of tech and design beyond 3025, maybe if you familiarise yourself with it you'd see shit like being able to take a 3/5 Thunder Hawk was an option for the same god damn time frame.
>in b4 but in the nineties the group I was in insisted on 1:1 tonnage balancing and the Clans got 3/4 pilots but the IS had 4/5
Then you and your group fucked up. Get over it, more than 20 years have gone by.
What is the maximum amount of BRRRRRRRRRT that can be fit on a BattleMech?
>>47987797
A super-heavy could stack a bunch of R-A/C-2s thanks to the crit halving.
You could even fit one in each leg.
I think you could fit 14 or so on a Superheavy with enough ammo to go stupid with the firing rate.
>>47987859
That's a lot of BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT.
What about a 100-tonner?
>>47988147
Mass and space are both issues there. I think you could fit three R-A/C-5s or 4 R-A/C-2s onto something and not have it be utterly shit at everything, see attached.
Vehicles might be better for these purposes, they give no fucks about the heat R-A/Cs create and however much space a R-A/C takes up on a 'Mech on a vee it's still just one item.
I think something like the Some BRRRRT could work in niche applications but aside from that and comedy value with all the jams it's not something I'd do for serious use on a 'Mech. Even there I'd be real tempted to find a way to have two H-PPCs and 3 R-A/C-2s instead.
>>47984570
>Conventions
Huh. I just checked and you're right, I don't see the cards anywhere on Catalyst's website. Can't find anything on ebay, either. Seems odd they'd limit the cards to conventions only.
I hope they have some new stuff at Gencon.
On a tangent, can anyone tell me what the Batteltech event is like there? I never got a chance to check it out last year.
>>47986575
>Godfuckingdamnit, FASA. The scenario is about someone playing "chicken" with Shadow Hawks and stealing lostech books.
"Buckaroo, The White House wants to know is everything OK with the alien space craft from Planet 10, or should we just go ahead and destroy Russia?"
"Tell him yes on one and no on two."
"Which one was 'yes'? Go ahead and destroy Russia... or number 2?"
>>47987212
Dear sweet innocent child, when the Clans first came out, their average pilot wasn't 3/4, it was *2/3*. And we didn't have BV until a few years later.
There's a goddamn reason oldfags bitch about Clans, and that's because when they were released, they were FUCKING BROKEN.
That said, if you're still bitching about Clans now because of rules, it's past time to get the fuck over it. The jackasses that publish the rules have put some counterweights for the cheese in over the last 20 years.
>>47990192
>The jackasses that publish the rules have put some counterweights for the cheese in over the last 20 years.
The record sheets are spiffier now, too!
>>47990192
>Dear sweet innocent child, when the Clans first came out, their average pilot wasn't 3/4, it was *2/3*.
Check the first edition of the BT Compendium. Clan Regular has always been 3/4.
>they were FUCKING BROKEN.
No. What you had a problem with was win-at-all-costs munchkins. If the Clans and 3050 tech didn't exist, they'd be using 7/11 40-tonners with 5 MLs or spamming Awesome-8Qs.
The Scenario Packs from back then go to great pains to hobble the Clans when fighting the IS too, unless it's a Scenario for a one-sided asskicking the IS isn't supposed to win. Some of the Tukayyid Scenarios are fucking atrocious, like two maps where the Com Guard has 36 heavy-weight 'Mechs deploying in hiding and fighting 10 Clan 'Mechs where few weigh more than 70 tons using the listed forces.
>The jackasses that publish the rules have put some counterweights for the cheese in over the last 20 years.
Uhh, stuff was in there right from the outset, like TSM and C3.
I learned to play in the 90s too.
>>47988701
>On a tangent, can anyone tell me what the Batteltech event is like there? I never got a chance to check it out last year.
The Feature Event (the canon game) is basically scrub central. The Open and the Bloodname attract all the seriously good players, and the Grand Melee is just a good time.
There's also infinite grinders, the Solaris VII game, and AS stuff, but I don't play those so I don't know them well honestly.
>>47990638
>Check the first edition of the BT Compendium. Clan Regular has always been 3/4.
Yep, by the Compendium table, average Clanners were 3/4. Then MW2 came out, and we got pic related as the Clan mechwarrior template. Between that and the Wolf Clan Sourcebook "even our janitors have Elite rating" bullshit, guess how things went.
>Uhh, stuff was in there right from the outset, like TSM and C3.
I was referring to BV2, but tech toys that the Clans don't get help too.
>>47991741
>Then MW2 came out, and we got pic related as the Clan mechwarrior template.
I guess I missed the BattleTech product that specified MechWarrior 2 rules superseded BT rules and that the Clan MechWarrior character stats were to replace them.
Oh wait, there was never anything like that and you're still desperate clawing for ways to rationalise your butthurt.
>Between that and the Wolf Clan Sourcebook "even our janitors have Elite rating" bullshit, guess how things went.
A: It's never made clear whether the ratings in that book are from an IS or Clan perspective, but since it's written by an IS character it's a more than reasonable assumption that they're IS graded rankings, and
B: Epsilon Galaxy is mostly Regular-rated with Veterans scattered about in smaller numbers, mostly in Command units where you'd expect to see them.
>I was referring to BV2, but tech toys that the Clans don't get help too.
TSM physicals and C3. Again. And the first Arrow IV/TAG combo. And all kinds of shit in the THB, including missiles that let you consistently keep Clanners at auto-shutdown heat, and IS-only Neurohelmets and shit.
But no, CLANS R TEH WURST THING TO EVAR HAPPEN IN THIS GAME U GUISE.
Get a grip.
>>47987212
>"Slinging three headcappers a turn downrange and praying they break through before the other one with three, more ammo, and better backup weapons gets lucky is a viable countermeasure %D"
Don't forget, in a lot of the scenarios where you'd see the Widowmaker, it'd have a shitload of edge. Furthermore, you're assuming I don't play with - and like - all eras of the game. Hell, I play Clanners too, and enjoy the shit out of it. But the 'Mech isn't fun to play against. When you're seriously suggesting massed headcappers, artillery, and dive-bombing as the "solution" to a 'Mech (and that's what gets brought up when the Widowmaker or Hellstar come up) then maaaaybe there's a faint whiff of cheddar in the air.
Furthermore, the Widowmaker was drastically undercosted in BV1 (from the heat and ammo things), and still takes advantage of the way BV2 undervalues armor. With Nasty Kay in the cockpit it can strip an Assault lance to the bone in short order, and you're only getting about half of its value for her.
Claiming the Widowmaker isn't a little broken is - like saying the Assassin is a good trooper medium - done entirely by the ignorant (whether of history, or of gameplay against the fucking thing), by idiots, or by trolls. I sincerely hope you're the latter, because at least then you'd be successful.
Anyway, I do agree that TSM does go a good way towards balancing Clanner bullshit, but frankly C3 in its current incarnation is less useful than just upgrading your pilots, especially when you're running a lance against a couple of Clanner monster designs. Further, getting closer to the Widow is the >last< fucking thing you want to do, because that's where her ten rounds of UAC/20 ammo want you to be - it goes from slinging 50 damage downrange for 50 heat, to doing up to 74d for 44h. Or a slightly more sedate 55 damage while still running and cooling off.
>>47992316
>And all kinds of shit in the THB
"Let's add Level 3 rules specifically designed to counter this into the equation"
>CLANS R TEH WURST THING TO EVAR HAPPEN IN THIS GAME U GUISE.
Not my argument. I'm saying that one specific 'Mech (and by association, a couple of others) are incredibly fucking broken in a way that requires designing your entire force around them to counter. It's the same reason a lot of people don't like playing with aerospace - only in this case the counters don't make for fun gameplay if the shit doesn't show up, they make for turrettech and zombiefests. Why the fuck do you think the Assault section of 3058 looks like it does?
Now imagine that that "meta", if you will, was sticking around for the better part of a decade and a half and shitting on anyone who wanted to play more historical scenarios or just fuck around, because there simply weren't enough players to be picky if you wanted to get SOME kind of game in.
good to see the old /btg/ back
>>47992316
Okay, not sure if you're demonstrating a reading disability or just trolling, but did you miss the part in my first post where I said, "if you're still bitching about Clans now because of rules, it's past time to get the fuck over it"? Which part of that sounds like the babeltext you just posted?
>CLANS R TEH WURST THING TO EVAR HAPPEN IN THIS GAME U GUISE.
Yeah, sure sounds like what I typed. No wait, it's the polar opposite.
>>47992316
>And all kinds of shit in the THB,
You mean the book that practically nobody ever played with, was specifically optional rules that most people weren't willing to use and was rapidly superseded by other books?
That book?
>>47992711
The 3/5 Thunderhawk has like 10 turns before the Widowmaker can get the A/C-20 into play, hitting at least 1 point lower on the TNs, with 16 shots per GR.
Natasha also never pilots the Widowmaker in any scenario or novel she's in, it mostly shows up as a WiE thing after her death.
Under BV 1 it's 2,534 to the Thunder Hawk's 1,967. Which means 3/4 Thunderhawk to 4/5 Dire Wolf. yeah right it's undercosted.
>muh NatashaKerensky
If you want her in the cockpit you're dropping 8,515 BV plus on a single unit. You can field two Awesome-9Qs and two Thunder Hawks for that, and good fucking luck weathering that damage output long enough to kill the entire Lance.
>buh buh headcappers
No, it was a straight comparison of another 100-tonner with similar ranged firepower and armour. Which the IS had published before the Widowmaker ever saw print.
>C3 didn't work then because it's over-costed for BV now, or because the existence of the Widowmaker means it's non-viable entirely
Holy crap you're a moron.
Cling to your old hatreds, lies, and misconceptions though. I bet they're the only things keeping you company.
>>47993038
Yep, confirmed for troll. Ladies and gentlemen, time to play /btg/'s favorite game, Ignore That Guy!
>>47992830
>Now imagine that that "meta", if you will, was sticking around for the better part of a decade and a half and shitting on anyone who wanted to play more historical scenarios or just fuck around, because there simply weren't enough players to be picky if you wanted to get SOME kind of game in.
OK. I am now imagining that your meta (or whole-cloth strawman argument) defined the experience of every BT player everywhere, was what the rules intended, and what the scenario packs or novels described.
>"Let's add Level 3 rules specifically designed to counter this into the equation"
Because there wasn't enough from the outset?
>Not my argument. I'm saying that one specific 'Mech (and by association, a couple of others) are incredibly fucking broken in a way that requires designing your entire force around them to counter. It's the same reason a lot of people don't like playing with aerospace - only in this case the counters don't make for fun gameplay if the shit doesn't show up, they make for turrettech and zombiefests.
Hey, guess what. If people insist on taking a narrow selection of the "best" 'Mechs from a given tech base or era, battles will get stale and devolve into samefests. What a lightbulb moment.
>Why the fuck do you think the Assault section of 3058 looks like it does?
Because the writers had a FedCom boner at the time.
I spent the early nineties playing reasonably balanced games giving up at least 25% mass advantage and numbers to IS players and fielding mostly Gargoyles and shit because of the Wolf Clan SB. I didn't start using things like the Widowmaker or Huntsman A or Fire Falcon B or Viper B until the local meta got a hold of TR 3058 and it was all Gausswall, all the time making a mockery of what the adjusted tonnage balancing was supposed to achieve. With most of the Clan players migrating to IS GR spam.
It's purely player-driven, not a tech base thing.
I'm fairly inexperienced with Battletech.
So.
What makes the Widowmaker such a shitshow? Looking at it on paper it just looks like a solid, well-rounded design to me. Like, to me, Prometheus appears as if it would be more powerful.
>>47993077
You gotta admit, though, that this one was a lot better than usual
>>47993077
>oh shit he actually went and looked at the BV costs
>fuck he knows the source material and knows Widowmaker is never confirmed for field use until the Field Manuals, since Natasha never pilots it in any novel or scenario she's in
>shut it down
>>47993255
Yeah, I mistook his second post for an actual conversation. Much more subtle than average.
>>47993255
How would you define a "usual" /btg/ troll, though?
I can honestly think of maybe two regular trolls here, which are "deadborder is off the rez again" and the midwestern city hating psychopath. Aside from that, there's no real "usual" for trolls round here
>>47993240
The Dire Wolf Widowmaker has a consistent 50 damage for a 2 overheat starting at 20 hexes if it runs. Add to that, the LPLs are halving your range penalties, and, if using a 3/4 or better pilot, you have a design that dictates an engagement all by itself.
At any rate, going by the description of the fight from I Am Jade Falcon, which has little detail about Kerensky's mech, Natasha was either piloting a Dire Wolf A, or a Hohiro. The latter is more likely, since the AMS on the A was never mentioned. Such a terribly described fight.
>>47993190
>the Widowmaker must be okay, I mean I used one so it must be!
Keep telling yourself that. I'm guessing you haven't played against real people since the early nineties?
>>47993240
Headcaps, really.
They both shit out 50 damage long-range, but while Vic is trying to whittle down the opponent's battlemech, the Widowmaker is rolling that 1/36 chance to end the battle twice a turn. Not to mention the heat problems Prometheus has to deal with to open up with its entire array of weapons.
Slightly less important, but the close-ranged loadout of the Widowmaker was a bit better too, although paired critseeking and UAC/20 is still a good combo.
>>47993331
Well, when you see greentext that's the opposite of what's being "quoted", odds are there's something greenish, rubbery, and loathsome on the keyboard at the other end.
>>47993240
>What makes the Widowmaker such a shitshow?
Nothing really. The shitshow is pure 90s wangst over how hard done by the IS was. If you played in his local meta, if you didn't have half a brain to use for balancing games, if you elected to play win-at-all-cost munchkins trying to rig the game in their favour.
The IS literally got the full 3058 Gausswall crop before the Widowmaker was even confirmed to have ever hit the field.
>Prometheus
Widowmaker does have the advantage of more heat sinks and two headcappers over the third LPL of Prometheus.
Personally I just like the Widowmaker, the question that sparked this whole GAS THE CLANS SPACE WAR NOW question was about your favourite design. And for me that's the Widowmaker. I haven't used one since a tournament in 2001 (which was balanced by tonnage and was Clan v Clan, before the sperglord loses the plot again) and the last time I fielded a Dire Wolf at all, some time last year, it was a Dire Wolf A. Which I think is actually superior to the Widowmaker despite giving up the second headcapper, since it's cheaper under BV and is an oversinked alpha baby with a shit ton of ammo.
>>47993615
Sorry. Record Sheets Volume Four, where the record sheets for the "why the fuck are these getting sheets, they're unique variants!" Daishis were first published, came out in 91. I Am Jade Falcon came out in 95. So the Widowmaker was written up before the novel.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Record_Sheets_Volume_Four:_Assault_%27Mechs
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/I_Am_Jade_Falcon
>>47993381
When I Am Jade Falcon was published there wasn't a Widowmaker for it to be. Or a Hohiro.
It could only have been an A by canon sheets (and I believe that's the author's intention, and is the only matching option from the Wolf and Falcon scenario pack write-up for the event), but Natasha did weird customisation bullshit in the novels all the time, including changing engine sizes and armour and mixing ammo loads in ways the rules explicitly do not allow for. Because Stackpole said so.
The scenario and novel also say the Wolves are running low on ammo. These days the AMS on the A is way, way over the top because when the hell will you have a game that runs for 72 turns to use up the AMS ammo on? But back in the day, that ammo load would probably get you through 10 turns of being shot at by missiles before running out. Designs with less ammo for their AMS than that tended to run dry very fast, often without doing much at all since the AMS engaged when you were targeted for an attack, not when one hit.
Smart players would declare an SRM-2 or similar at the start of their phase for your AMS to waste ammo on before declaring the LRMs or whatever they really wanted to matter.
Any way, for the time it's plausible for her to be out of AMS ammo and/or SRMs and be in a Dire Wolf A.
>>47993615
To be fair, sticking to the rules of the game can make for some awkward moments in prose.
Can you imagine if the rules allowed for you load a rack of ammunition in multiple flavors? That'd be a nightmare to track and prove.
And in her defense, it's not uncommon for magazines of ammunition to be loaded in mixed batches suited to the task at hand. Good example would be how WW2 fighters would run 'custom' belts depending on what they were flying for.
Anywho.
I sometimes feel like the novels and game influence each other negatively, rather than enhancing either.
>>47993724
Interesting, you managed to delete your original post while I was pointing out you were wrong. >>47993720 is a reply to the original post that was reposted as >>47993724.
>>47993727
Oh yeah, there's a lot of stuff in the novels that either is just wrong by the game rules, or on occasion is just wrong by "but that's not how physical laws work, Stackpole!". So people bitch about the books. And then the guys that write the rules go and write new rules to cover the crap that gets pulled in the novels...
>>47993720
And in no novel or scenario pack is the Widowmaker used by Natasha Kerensky. Or anyone else.
It was a canon design in terms of having been officially published, but it's not confirmed to exist until the Wolf RATs in Field Manual: Crusader Clans and Warden Clans.
It doesn't even get a mention in 3050U or 3050R at all.
Likewise I don't think Hohiro ever gets an appearance in "his" version of the Dire Wolf. The only time I can remember off the top of my head that he appeared in a Dire Wolf at all is in the Trial against the Blood Spirits where he had a Prime.
Even Victor hardly ever used the Prometheus configuration, for all that it was what he called his 'Mech and it being his iconic variant.
>>47993727
>Can you imagine if the rules allowed for you load a rack of ammunition in multiple flavors? That'd be a nightmare to track and prove.
It would be hell to implement with ammo-fed weapons but could add some utility to One-Shot launchers. Say you mix and max Standard and alternate ammo from a pre-approved list like Inferno (I believe Phelan had a custom job from Natasha where one missile in his OS SRM-6 was an Inferno) and the alternate ammo can only be X number of missiles and they only hit if those are the last missiles confirmed on the cluster chart. So you can have 1-2 Infernos in a OS SRM-6, but those only hit if you get 5-6 missiles on the cluster chart.
>>47993799
I deleted it because I wanted to talk about the AMS ammo.
I'm still not wrong about the Widowmaker configuration never being seen IC until the Clan Field Manuals, regardless of its print date.
Every appearance Natasha has is either in a standard config or some bullshit Stackpole monstrosity that violates all reason and rules.
>>47993919
>>47993959
What did you type in >>47993724? Here, let me remind you.
>When I Am Jade Falcon was published there wasn't a Widowmaker for it to be. Or a Hohiro.
We're not talking about IC stuff, we're talking about when the book was published. Which was four years after the stats for the mechs that you claimed didn't exist at the time.
>>47994132
Hohiro isn't in that RS compilation either.
Widowmaker isn't a valid option according to the scenario pack for the battle described in I Am Jade Falcon.
QED.
Playing with clan forces is generally considered more difficult, is it not?
Fewer units and all that.
I remember having a 3/4 Gladiator fail a piloting roll and fall on its ass, then it got kicked to death by two spiders.
>>47994180
>I Am Jade Falcon.
>(and so can you)
>>47994277
>Playing with clan forces is generally considered more difficult, is it not?
It is under BV, where armour is under-valued and the Force Size Modifier is a thing of the past.
IS 'Mechs tend to have better armour and you can usually get more of them, or at least buy an initiative sink.
BV assumes you'll be using everything to maximum effect but numbers and heavier armour are major advantages in game in ways the balancing system doesn't take into account. No system is ever going to be perfect though.
I used to like FSM, with the caveat that it was obviously meant for balancing fights that weren't massively lopsided. Like Lance vs Star or Company vs Trinary, the extra BV you got did a pretty good job of evening things up, same as Binary vs Company.
>I remember having a 3/4 Gladiator fail a piloting roll and fall on its ass, then it got kicked to death by two spiders.
Had a pristine Fire Moth fail its MASC activation and crit both its hips out in front of a Wolverine-K once. If the dice decide to fuck you there's not much you can do.
>>47994277
Generally, yeah. It's particularly hard if you don't know how to use mediums and lights effectively, or are trying to run a campaign - most Invasion-era Omnis rely on toughness by ablation (you can shoot off half the 'Mech and it still fights about the same) rather than cutting the firepower by a quarter and doubling the toughness. You wind up getting shot to fuck every game, or playing ballet on the edge of range brackets and praying no-one has Gausses. Or just being an insane motherfucker and going for completely suicidal, all-out brawling like the Jags and Vipers.
>>47994427
>Had a pristine Fire Moth fail its MASC activation and crit both its hips out in front of a Wolverine-K once.
Oh top kek
>>47995437
Speaking of the Jags, anyone been playing any interesting AU campaigns lately?
The primary one I'm in has us playing as Jaguars. With some different leadership, and a tad (which means any in their case) bit of luck. At this point in our campaign we're dropped on Luthien in mid 3058. Our Star Captain, a PC, is griping about how we need to Jag harder for death or glory. It's on hold right now but can't wait to continue.
Oh, and anyone involved in any Dark Age campaigns right now? I feel like I don't see them discussed as much right now.
>>47995442
It was the -7K too.
LPL and MPL on 3s or some shit and two SRM-6s on 5s. Everything hit, as you'd expect at those TNs.
Could have gone better.
>>47995442
One of my favorites was a Veteran pilot at the beginning of turn 1 of a campaign tripping in L1 water, falling face-first into the water, breaching the head, and ejecting into the cliff on the other side of the river, killing him instantly.
So they salvaged the otherwise pristine Orion, dried it out, and stuffed a Greenie in it. Turn one of the next game the gyro got TACd out, the pilot passed out on impact and died ejecting when the SRM-4 ammo cooked off from concentrated fire the next turn.
>>47995614
That is the worst run of luck with an Orion I've ever seen.
As for me, I've recently had a bad run of getting brutally diced. I had 4 mechs in a campaign game get binned. Three were pristine assaults (Highlander-732, Nightstar, Victor-9B), the fourth was a nearly pristine Catapult. This was all in the same game, across 2 turns.
I've also had multiple headcaps on pristine mechs recently (a different Nightstar, a LB-X Annihilator). That was a single turn as well.
>>47995567
You probably won't have better luck with the Jags unless you can get more of them to curb that wicked case of civilian slaughter they had.
>>47995614
>>47995675
It's not quite as bad as you guys, but I had a crusader that fell victim to ammo explosions before it fired a single shot THREE GAMES IN A ROW. It was hilarious
>>47994427
>If the dice decide to fuck you there's not much you can do.
You could try gitting gud...
>>47995964
I never thought to compare Battletech to Mordheim until somebody brought it up a few threads ago, but it really is the same kind of shit that leads to fun after-action reports and general lulz.
>>47993720
That's fishy. Sarna's page claims Vol 4 has a table of Combat Values, but the page on CVs says they weren't introduced until '94, and the "Widowmaker" doesn't even show up in the Tactical Handbook's CV tables.
Anyone have RS Vol 4 in hardcopy (not a reprint dated '94), to verify and correct the wiki?
TRAINING MECHS
Always take the Chameleon on the last training mission before the Kuritans invade because it is the heaviest mech in the game. R.I.P. Westwood Associates/Studios
>>47996549
>correct the wiki
>editing Sarna without being one of the Chosen Ones
I know you mean well, but it's well known that there's a pack of retards that revert every correction made to any page on Sarna, because they weren't the ones who made it.
>>47996614
>Always take the Chameleon on the last training mission before the Kuritans invade because it is the heaviest mech in the game. R.I.P. Westwood Associates/Studios
I remember reloading and replaying battles over and over, hoping I would get to salvage a 30-ton mech instead of being stuck with just Wasps and Stingers. It never happened often enough to my satisfaction.
>>47996549
The first time I saw the Widowmaker's stats was in RS 3050 (which is what MaxTech and the Clan FMs reference).
I think Prometheus and Hohiro were in RS: U.
>>47996994
There's also a pack of retards here who go over there and quietly fix shit every so often, including at least one of their global moderators. So it's not all bad. AFAICT, the biggest problem is German-speakers revising shit to match their own, often uncorrected books, and some kind of "police" bot that goes around reverting random shit every night. Your best bet to avoid it is to do a bunch of minor edits to your own page and then sit on your account for a few months to let it mellow. It also helps to flag unjustified reverts and provide the mods with actual citations. Pictures and links if possible.
I've actually been curating and keeping a particular rule system current for about four years now, and I don't get reverted by shitters constantly. Just be prepared to back your shit up and demand a lock if idiots or Krauts wander through.
>>47995679
I guess luckily civilian-related problems move at the speed of plot device requirements (see: Bears). But really we've mostly been involved in regular military missions.
However,
[Urge to commit war crimes rising]
Can't post images, so go here and see some Campaign Companion teasers
http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/146572389801/campaign-operations-layout
>>47997438
>I think Prometheus and Hohiro were in RS: U.
Wait, my bad. Went and checked, they're in RS 3060.
>>47997566
I corrected a bunch of basic grammatical and spelling errors with more than a few factual errors thrown in for good measure a few times, pages were literally reverted within three hours every time. I gave up.
Maybe things are better now, but my interest is long gone.
>>47997622
...So what you're saying is we can generate a Tiji Sector and run our own fucking games in it. I am okay with this. Let's treat the system's kneecaps like a pack of angry loansharks when it comes out.
are there any Clan mechs classified second line but found commonly in front line clusters?
Or would that only happen in the toumans of poor Clans?
>>47998060
>are there any Clan mechs classified second line but found commonly in front line clusters?
Pre-Jihad, usually only if the design is considered extremely honorable like the Totems and the Orion IIC. By the late Jihad, however, everyone is bleeding, hard, and rotating second-line units into the front as well as issuing 2-L reinforcements. As you say, poorer Clans also do it, but it's remarkable for a front-liner to be using a 2-L 'Mech; the Invaders in particular fielded almost none of them in "real" battles until Tukayyid.
>>47998060
That's common after Jihad/Wars of Reaving. Second line mechs going to front line and IS mechs going to second line.
I think there are some examples around Clan Invasion, such as ristars using inferior mechs to prove their worth or things like Orion IIC. This isn't the norm, though
What are some mechs that aren't totally worthless at range but are really focused around chewing their way through anything within 8 hexes or so?
>>47998060
The only second line mechs I can recall seeing in the RATs of invading Clans pre-Jihad are the Orion IIC with the Wolves and some unique cases like the Hunchback IIC and Stone Rhino here and there.
>>47998060
>are there any Clan mechs classified second line but found commonly in front line clusters?
Not before the Jihad. Non-Omnis in Clans that aren't total poorfags are extremely rare.
The Solataire from the Diamond Sharks is the first to get fluff about being used by front-liners on request, aside from stuff like the Blood Kite for the Spirits.
>>47998322
*second line mechs in front line RATs, I meant
>>47998309
Thunderbolt in several incarnations, Falconer, Devastator, Fafnir, Albatross (hue), some of the S Omni configurations.
If you have a specific faction or era in mind we can help more.
>>47998309
All of the MML Longbows, for starters. Could use more era, techbase, and weight limitations before I can really start recommending shit because that covers about 20-40% of the 'Mechs ever made.
>>47994277
>>47994427
>>47995437
Only by clan babies. I played IS for 15 years, then tried out the Clans, and playing Clans with even half a brain is stupidly easy. The only way the IS can compete is if the maps are the size of a postage stamp. I consider 2x3 to be the bare minimum.
>>47998309
>>47998353
>>47998487
Assault, I'm thinking something that can chip in moderate damage as it advances with the rest of its lance, and if it gets within 8 hexes or so, or if you wander into a dark alley and find it lurking there, makes you wet your pants
>>47998520
You do realise that's larger than what the rules recommend, what scenario packs allocate, and what most people have room for, right? It's easy on MegaMek sure, but space is a thing IRL.
Even then you're depending on range and kiting, and the IS has ways of countering that.
>>47998590
Assault?
Devastator has 2 GRs, 2 PPCs, and MLs.
Fafnir has HGRs that can do 25 damage each in close.
Pillager has two GRs and ML spam. Also Stealth Armour variants if you want to go that way.
Hauptman generally has some long-range guns mixed with a close-in array, there's one with ER PPCs and an Ultra A/C-20 or something. Maybe ER LLs and an LB-20X? I forget.
Emperor has LB-10Xs and Large Lasers.
The Longbows the other anon mentioned can throw some LRMs at range and then switch to OH HOLY SHIT numbers of SRMs in close.
But the answer you seek might be the Saggittaire. One ER PPC at long range, but in close is has 2 LPLs, a shit ton of MPLs, and an SPL linked to a Targeting Computer.
>>47998818
>larger than what the rules recommend, what scenario packs allocate, and what most people have room for, right? It's easy on MegaMek sure, but space is a thing IRL.
2x3 is what, less than a kilometer by a kilometer and a half?
Yeah, that's stupidly small.
>>47998818
>2x3
>Large
What? That puts everything within long range pretty much from the start.
I usually try to play with at least three of those boards they offer, four seems best.
>>47998868
Most people apparently never go beyond 2x2. I've played games that require 40 maps before.
>>47998868
>2x3 is what, less than a kilometer by a kilometer and a half?
The rules say 1 map per Lance or Star is appropriate. I'd say double that minimum but space IRL is an issue.
A 2*3 map setup is taking up around 44"*54" (3'8"/1.1 metres by 4'6"/1.35 metre) playing area and 1.32 km by 1.53 km space IC.
That many maps barely fits onto my kitchen table and everyone would either have to have clipboards or use the counter to do their record-keeping. It might be more feasible at game clubs where they have 40K tables to work with.
The poorly formatted sig is the icing here
>>47998941
2*3 putting things in long range depends on deployment along the longest sides, and with 17*16 hex mapsheets there's still 30 hexes between deployment zones. Plus LOS from terrain features.
>>47958281
It's still in the EU. Article 50 hasn't been invoked, and even that has a two-year period before the final mooring ropes are cut.
>>47979051
Don't forget the new guy, Marco Mazzoni. He's the one doing the new covers such as that Marauder piece. So far he's doing good justice to my design work.
FD designed the new battlemaster and the cover it was first featured on, but has unfortunately been otherwise tied up with MWO. I wish he was able to be more involved :(
>>47998590
>Assault, I'm thinking something that can chip in moderate damage as it advances with the rest of its lance, and if it gets within 8 hexes or so, or if you wander into a dark alley and find it lurking there, makes you wet your pants
You have just described the literal design statement for the King Crab and Atlas. Both mate a large LRM rack with big fuck-off ballistics and an array of short-ranged guns; they also have a large number of extremely nasty stand-off and close-in variants. The Annihilator has difficulty fiddling about at range but does absolutely grotesque things once it closes. The Stalker isn't the utter stuff of nightmares of some of the others, but it's cheap , common, and can lay on some serious fucking hurt up close too.
If you're willing to go down to Heavy, the Bandersnatch is a very solid pants-browner. Even though it's only got a trio of LRMs-5 for plinking, it switches over to a quad laser array and twin LB-10X for knife-fighting, and it pairs extremely well with any of the AC/20 brawlers.
>>48000918
SIEG SCOTZEON
I'm trying to make a civil-war era Capellan company that doesn't rely on advanced rules too much, and I just can't come up with something I feel would be decent without relying on stacking the same handful of units.
Any ideas?
>>48001607
To be fair the Capellans didn't have a lot to choose from so some doubling up, especially with stuff like the Raven, Vindicator, or Cataphract does fit.
How about:
Strike/Recon
Ti T'sang (or wherever the fuck the apostrophe goes)
Raven
Duan Gung
Stinger/Wasp/Locust/Cicada
Battle Lance
Vindicator
Huron Warrior
Cataphract
Archer
Assault Lance
Yu Huang
Pillager
Emperor
Striker
>>48001966
>four fucking assaults in a random company
>more assaults than nediums
Hold the fuck up son
>>48002757
It's a crack "Lyran" assault lance.
>>48002769
Not even the lyrans would have that kind of weight ratio
>>48002769
>>48003004
What wong, lound-eye? Not can Xin Sheng?
But seriously a ton of their lines in that era are for assaults. I didn't even include the Sunder and I think they have a BLR line or some shit on top of all that.
>>48001607
Well, here's a rough idea for a company circa 63 or so. Your choice of variants
Scout lance
>raven
>locust
>Clint
>wasp
Fire Lance
>Archer
>Emperor
>Shadow Hawk
>Crusader
Line Lance
>Vindicator
>Cataphract
>Vindicator
>Snake
>>48003169
>But seriously a ton of their lines in that era are for assaults.
Yeah, they did capture a bunch from st.Ives, but there's absolutely no indication that they were producing large quantities of mechs, let alone enough to make it so that a random fucking company would be A THIRD ASSAULTS. Even the fucking lyrans can't do that.
>>48003419
I take it you didn't read the Capellan Solution novels, because the Huistaing Warriors literally have Lances like that from captured St. Ives gear and a few gifts from the Chancellor.
And those are supposed to be dreg units.
>>48003441
>I take it you didn't read the Capellan Solution novels, because the Huistaing Warriors literally have Lances like that from captured St. Ives gear and a few gifts from the Chancellor.
>And those are supposed to be dreg units.
>>48003419
>, let alone enough to make it so that a random fucking company would be A THIRD ASSAULTS. Even the fucking lyrans can't do that.
Patio money can buy a lot of assault mechs, anon
>Haven't found anyone to play a face-to-face game of Battletech with in 10 years
>Haven't played Megamek in 5 years
>Miss my custom Marauder with TSM, a TComp, three PPC's, two ER Medium Lasers
>It could fire all three PPC's or two PPC's and both lasers while running and hit the heat to activate the TSM perfectly
>Standard engine, heaviest armor I could fit, no ammo
>Other players hated it because it was "that damn zombie mech that never dies"
>Could absolutely rape at medium range, and if you were stupid enough to try to get inside the minimum range of the PPC's it could kick the leg off anything its weight or lighter in one blow while still shooting
Ah, the good old days.
>Try Megamek for the first time in years
>What the fuck are plasma rifles? The hell is all this shit?
>Super-heavy mechs? They top out at 100 tons for a reason, you munchkin fucks!
>Agree to limit tech to the 3060's since I have no idea what all this clickwarrior bullshit is
>Enemy is bringing lots of tanks and heat-intense mechs
>So I bring Inferno SRM's
>WTF? What the hell happened to Infernos?!
>They're just glorified flamers now!
>Hit his mech with two missiles, he gains 4 heat for a single turn; that's bullshit, he should be on fire!
>His tanks aren't dying a fiery death; they just lose mobility and keep shooting at me
>I can't even fucking set fire to the scenery with fucking NAPALM missiles?!
>Fuck this shit, the new rules are gay as hell
>Flip through the pages of my old revised TRO and miss the glory days
>Also, fuck the Word of Blake
>>48003795
>Tell my buddy that the RNG hates me
>He thinks I'm exaggerating, so I make a bet
>We start a 15k match
>Four Pegasus hover tanks attempt to make a turn down a road
>All four fail the roll, skid out of control, crash into the same fucking building, and explode
>My pristine Atlas rounds the corner and opens fire on his crippled Phoenix Hawk, which has only one MG still working
>Every shot misses, his MG gets a through-armor crit on the head and kills the pilot of the undamaged Atlas
>Marauder II ambushes his Hauptman by jumping out from behind a hill, fires its heavy gauss rifle at point-blank range
>Misses, falls over from the recoil, crits the heavy gauss rifle, and explodes
>Highlander IIC with an ace pilot fires everything it has at his King Crab
>Superficial damage scattered all over
>His King Crab returns fire
>Every shot hits my CT, blasts away the armor, and gets a triple crit on the engine
>He owes me $20
>"Dude, that is some straight up bullshit"
>>48003795
Move to a better part of the country, and git gud.
