Why are the classical elements being an actual thing so popular in fantasy settings?
It's a pretty stupid idea that """""the building blocks""""" of the universe are these four arbitrary concepts, understandable that thousands of years ago when people didn't know better they made up theories to make sense of things, but as an actual factual tangible reality of a fantasy world it's just nonsense not to mention trite af
>i don't understand physics
>>47925137
Explain
>>47925132
They have cultural inertia at this point, serious cultural inertia and a mythic quality to boot.
It's fantasy
It's not supposed to be realistic
>>47925173
My point isn't that it needs to be realistic, but that it's stupid
That you have 4 arbitrary elemental classifications that just exist because
>>47925205
>just because
yeah all those classical cultures chose these elements 'just because lol'
>>47925205
They're supposed to correspond with the four states of matter: fire is plasma, water is liquid, air is gas and earth is solid.
These four elements (with some additional ones) have shown-up in the mysticism/alchemy of the Arabs, Greeks, Indians, Chinese and Japanese which implies some kind of universality to them.
There really aren't too many alternatives and certainly none that are as well known.
>>47925252
I get why they were chosen, because it's what people saw around them
But fire isn't even a thing, it's a chemical reaction, water and air are a compounds of several things, and earth is literally an abstract concept that includes anything from dirt to sand to fucking rock
>>47925276
so if you get why people chose them, why doesn't it make sense in fantasy?
>>47925256
Well there are myriads of legends that persist throughout all humankind and all it tells me is that some ideas are so ancient they've just spread as our species spread and also that ideas travel where people travel and people have always traveled
Everyone knows fire, water, and air don't actually exist duh
Because it's easymode and jaded trope.
Let's roll with science, brothers!
>Matter elemental
>Field elemental
>Energy elemental
How do they look like, what are their abilities?
>>47925276
>earth is an abstract concept
...Then describe what sort of consistency air has to be to 'be' air. It's not all oxygen, you know.
>>47925256 has the right idea.
They also follow from the dual dry/wet hot/cold interaction that fits a system without in-depth chemistry.
Hot/Dry = 'Fire'
Hot/Wet = 'Air'
Cold/Dry = 'Earth'
Cold/Wet = 'Water'
That and they're relatively easy to visualize. I mean, it's easier to tell between an earth and water elemental than it is between an oxygen and helium elemental, I'd at least assume.
they're based on the states of matter lad
>B'E'C's
>Solids
>Liquids
>Gasses
>Plasmas
>>47925298
Yeah, that's almost certainly how it happens. I just said it implies that the concepts are universal. I didn't try to say that they are true and that's why all these cultures began using them.
What is supposed to be discussed in this thread? Why classical elements are common in fantasy? Because fantasy tends to operate with the same understanding of natural science in the pre-modern era. Alchemy and esotericism over chemistry and physics. Four classical elements over the four states of matter.
It's a thing in fantasy because a lot of fantasy fiction carries the premise "the beliefs of the ancients are actual truth". It doesn't make sense to a 2016 fa/tg/uy for everything in the world to be made of fire, earth, water, and air, but it sure as shit did to lots of ancient cultures.
>>47925338
I think the chinese had wood (live) and the japanese void(Nothing), not a lot more to add unless you want dark and light too.
>>47925312
Matter might be a neutronium golem
I think it makes sense for humans with no understanding of chemistry to make up those elements. Approximately, you got:
> Air: things you can get through without effort
> Water: things you can get through with some effort
> Earth : things you can't get through
> Fire : things you shouldn't get through
If anything, it's fire that make the less sense.
I'm presenting it humorously but I hope you get what I mean. There is a logic being them, a basic and uneducated logic but a logic nonetheless.
>>47925132
They're based on the states of matter. And they resonate with us on an emotional level. Almost every culture associates the same human traits with the same classical elements.
Fire is associated with passion, anger, ingenuity, drive. Water is associated with adaptability, nurturing, acceptance, empathy. Earth is associated with solidity, dependability, truthfulness, bluntness. Air is associated with freedom, high-mindedness, dynamism.
With a few exceptions, like the Zoroastrian association between fire and truth, these are almost universal human associations.
>>47925402
Isn't the association between fire and truth pretty common, though, especially when you make the 'fire gives life and light' connection?
>>47925132
Ok cunt, whats your alternative?
>>47925363
Chinese also had (at various times) metal, sky, mountain and marsh. They get pretty crazy with their elements.
Greeks and Tibetans also had aether which is a pretty nebulous concept. A lot of fantasy seems to just have aether as a magical vital essence. Like magic given physical form.
Some Polynesians tended to go with air/light, earth/darkness and water.
This guy >>47925351
has it right. At this point, it's just a fantasy convention that you do because that's how it's done in fantasy.
>>47925418
Not OP but I'd do Periodic elements.
>I summon a chlorine elemental
>it kills everything not immune to poision
>>47925462
Chinese elements aren't really the same as classical elements, there's a system for them becoming and changing each other.
I'll try to put my thoughts into words better so here's an example of my problem with this whole thing: say there's a fire spirit, it would make sense to me for this spirit to exist because people consider fire and consider it to be significant and this the concept life, but it's born from the human mind same as the concept of elements are born of the human mind in reality, what doesn't make sense to me is for these elements to exist and have any significance independent of our abstract associations with them, without the perception and point of view of people, it wouldn't make sense for the primordial building block of reality to be these specific four elements
Am I being at all coherent?
Am I just being turbo autistic here?Probably yes
>>47925146
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter
retard
>>47925539
Wow, you explained nothing
Good job, anon
>>47925402
fire is plasma then?
>>47925418
I go with a mix of the four modern elements of nature along with the four fundamental interactions.
Time, space, energy, matter (alchemy), gravity, electricity, combustion (for strong nuclear forces) and radiation (for weak nuclear forces).
I like to design my universes with some mystery and ambiguity in regards to the exact nature of the metaphysics and origins. In fact, sometimes I like to make it such that the nature of the universe changes depending on your perspective. For example, someone who truly believes the universe to be made of earth, fire, water, and air could study magic based around this assumption and manage to distill anything into these elements based upon that, while someone else might look at things based upon the chinese five elements and similarly be able to distill anything into those elements. All of the major creation myths appear to be equally likely, and the gods themselves can't seem to agree on what happened.
>>47925521
I might be misreading you but fire, earth, etc. would all exist if humanity didn't exist. The elements of nature themselves aren't socially constructed even if we are the ones who invented the category of "classical elements". And even then, this category was invented based on our observation and logic.
It would almost be like saying "birds" wouldn't exist if people didn't exist because people are the ones who say ostriches, crows and owls and decided to call them all "birds".
Am I reading you right?
>>47925504
As a chem major let me tell you, that is extra stupid. Some periodical elemental would be cool, but most would be lame as all fuck, a lot of them would be nearly indistinguishable from each other, and worst of all would be a shitload of trouble to make. Plus first you have to decide if the fantasy world has the same periodic elements as we do, what we magic and goods fucking around. Is mithril an element or an alloy? What about adamantine? If they're elements, what is their atomic number? Too much work.
>>47925609
They would exist, but they wouldn't have the same significance
Fire is just one phenomenon among who knows how many that's significant to us because of the conditions of our environment (Earth), who would call the random assortment of sediments etc "earth" as a collective if we didn't exist, what we call air is just the specific atmosphere of this planet and so on
These elements have significance because of our point of view, not so much on the cosmic whole
>>47925521
In our reality they aren't, but they can be the building blocks of an imagined reality. If you can't conceptualise a different reality having different physical rules you are being a little autistic but that's ok. Not understanding something is fine, its when people attack others for lack of understanding that this place turns to shit.
If real humans in this very reality could consider these substances to be the literal building blocks of their reality, why, in a fictional world that draws from mythologies and folk beliefs could this not literally be true? Its convenient for the DM, that's for sure. Abstracting our modern science away is handy for preserving game balance, even if players seem to think it unfairly targets them. I also happen to like it. Things like literal elemental fire make it easier for me to immerse myself in an alternate reality than doing the opposite. If I meet a fire elemental I don't want to think about what matter input sustains the constant exothermic reaction any more than I want to have to identify the specific molecular compound poisoning me before I roll to treat poison with a skill. If you guys wanted me to run a game where we're all mad scientists then lets fucking do it but first I will put away the fantasy adventure rulebooks.
>>47925521
Well if that is the problem just think of it like this:
These four elements are magical representations of the many building blocks of the universe as understood by a limited human mind. They are not the actual building blocks, but a magical philosopher or wizard-scientist can use them to represent and categorize the forces of magic that exist around them.
Fire is used to represent energy, unchangeable transformations, barely controlled power and unleashed undirected destruction, quick reactions, the cicle of destruction and creation, light and purification, mental illumination, the spiritual flame of the soul, etc.
Water is used to represent matter at a liquid state, liberty, transformations that can be undone, change for the sake of change, adaptation to different enviroments and forms, the ocean and its misteries, the darkness of an overcast day, the unnamable dread of thick mist, or even te terror of great storm, the cool reflection of the logical mind, the tempestie turmoil of the troubled mind, the changing between states of mind, and the biological processes of most living creatures that have blood, sap or other liquids in their veins.
You can write similar paragraphs for what is earth and air. It's such a simple system it can be used to represent anything
Fire isn't plasma guys
>>47925156
This.
>>47925132
They are based on old myths which in turn are based on simple observation because 20k BC people had no idea what atoms and molecules were.
>Earth
We are land-based animals. It's the stuff on the ground, keep going deeper and you'll always find earth.
>Water
The difference between solid and liquid is obvious. And since we need water to survive, it's the liquid we have the most contact with. Also the most common one around.
>Air
We need to breathe to survive. You can feel the air flowing into your lungs and the wind pushing against your skin.
>Fire
The most interesting one. Because fire is not a substance, it is volatile and fleeting as opposed to other free. It is the "substance" that shows the same instability and constant change that our anchestors found in live's constant infighting. But it is also one of our first great conquests. It allowed us to venture forth into the cold and dark, hold of predators and bring down destruction like no other being.
So basicly: The most simple observerable stuff around was assumed to be elemental and told of, and fantasy is based on those stories.
>>47925649
I summon a Francium elemental. Why did he explode?
http://techemporium.vashid.us/docs/books/Franz%20Bardon%20-%20Initiation%20Into%20Hermetic.pdf
Do yourself a favor and read this at least as far as the elements
Okay.
Sounds like you're having problems with the human narrative aspects of what constitutes an element in the classical sense. Its fire as a mythical primordial force rather than just fire as in shit's hot yo. There isn't a such thing as this mythical primordial force outside of human storytelling, sure. Fantasy roleplaying games are human story telling. The universal constants aren't the same as they are for actual world things. You're asking why settings with default gods, magic and souls doesn't operate with modernist scientific laws. They're not suppose to be consistent. There has to be some semblance so there is immersion, but its not the same thing, and trying to force FANTASY to be logically consistent with whatever the fuck we're calling reality these days is pretty autistic. If you really, really want, you could make a table/chart for taking what are in game universe perceptions of how phenomena occur, and then contrast them with how they actually occur, but there wouldn't be a huge amount of disconnect, or there would also be magic so its going to inherently be inconsistent.
>>47926125
It was his method of surrendering.
>>47926263
Pic is relevant to most fantasy settings, and, depending on your viewpoint, our 'setting' at times.
>>47926205
Will this allow me to create my waifu as a homonculus?
>>47926518
If you're even halfway serious making a thoughtform isn't hard
But it's around that point where you really need to accept people are going to think you're crazy if you mention it. Which you shouldn't.
>>47926932
How do I make the thoughtform (and it's vagoo) real?
>>47927005
You need to be good at visualization and have a fair amount of mental discipline, the exact technique you use doesn't really matter. As autistic as it sounds the guides that are passed around to create tulpas can actually work
>>47925554
I think what captain ass-blast is pointing out is solid (earth), gas (air), liquid (water) and plasma (fire). Each is an easily identifiable representation of each of these states, and distinct from each other. His post is an example of the angry state of autism.
>>47927118
Also, if you want to see a more "mundane" and accepted use of similar techniques, read up on the method of loci/memory palaces, which are downright commonplace at a competitive level
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
>>47925132
OP, how do you feel about riddles?
>>47925928
Some parts of some flames probably contain some plasma. Oxy-acetylene torches certainly get hot enough that you'd expect some ionization in the densest regions.
But yeah, the flames from burning oil, wax, charcoal, or anything else the ancients would have had doesn't get hot enough or dense enough. Not that they'd even know what plasma was to begin with.
>>47925132
>these four arbitrary concepts
They aren't arbitrary. Read up a bit and you'll see that they show a remarkable amount of insight and foreward thinking. That different cultures around the world with little to no contact with each other came up with such similar systems speaks to its profundity. These are the people who first thought of the concept of atoms. They didn't learn about them. They thought of them.
>thousands of years ago
And the theories were so powerful they lasted until only a few hundred years ago.
>when people didn't know better they made up theories to make sense of things
That is literally what we do now. We just have the advantage of building off of what has come before us.
>but as an actual factual tangible reality of a fantasy world
Not only is it easy to understand - so players who don't know science are not disadvantaged and players who do cannot abuse it - and not only does it reflect the RPS tetrad commonly used in game design, but it also reflects a romanticism of the past that is a core facet of the fantasy genre. Like swords and horses and kingdoms.
>it's just nonsense
That you think this reveals how little research you have done into the topic. It doesn't work with what you learned in science class, but without the benefit of those classes and using just your senses and reason, it makes a remarkable amount of sense.
>not to mention trite af
No more or less than the genre in which it is found. Fantasy is everywhere, so fantasy tropes are often seen as trite. Maybe they are. YMMV. Play something else.
>>47926125
I remember one guy in space station 13 always summoning gunpowder golems. Shit was hilarious.
>>47925256
>They're supposed to correspond with the four states of matter: fire is plasma, water is liquid, air is gas and earth is solid.
this falls apart if you give it five seconds of scrutiny. for instance, i have never seen a setting where ice is considered a kind of earth. ice is usually just considered water, and even when ice is a combination of two elements, it's usually water + air (this is the case in D&D, for example, with the paraelemental planes). and while sometimes lava is considered either earth or fire, or more often a combination, i have never seen it considered a type of water. you could make a setting where those things are true, but it's a huge stretch to say they are "supposed" to work like that.
i don't think there's any need to try and justify everything in terms of modern science when it comes to fantasy settings.
>>47928110
>dat fight scene
Shit. I should watch that.
>>47925132
If you're going to have metaphysics (magic) you need metaphysical laws. It's really that simple.
And if the setting does it right it dosent need to even invalidate what we know about the material world.
>>47928583
>If you're going to have metaphysics (magic) you need metaphysical laws.
Why can't magic just be part of the base physics of your setting? Why does there have to be an arbitrary segregation between physics and the magic of a setting? Shouldn't a well-thought-out setting have magic that interacts with all the laws of physics?
I mean shit, most fantasy settings have animals and other natural creatures that can use magic, and not all of them are artificially-produced.
>>47925132
Because the represent the four humors, which are also very popular in fiction.
>>47928162
>Watching LoK
Don't make yourself suffer like that
>>47928162
Just brace yourself for korra being a retard.
>>47925132
Make a better system then.
>>47928917
>Because the represent the four humors
Actually, the humors and elements likely have parallel origins. Four was a common sacred number of antiquity,
>>47927123
those aren't elements though, they are states
The original faggot doesn't understand physics, he just equated 4=4 like a mongoloid
>>47925132
As I recall, ancient Chine had a different belief and Wood was one of the elements in place of another, can't remember which one honestly.
And it's this way because a lot of Fantasy is about attributing magical things to non-magical shit that we have, stars can be the places where gods live or fuel magical spells for example. A Shadow might not just be something that exists in the localised absence of light but instead something more sinister. They existed prior to a scientific understanding of the world, and those worked in our world many centuries ago, and they work in a fantasy world of make believe. These four elements feasibly cover everything a person would interact with and encounter on a daily basis. They live on and from the earth, they breathe the air, they fish and wash in the water and they stay warm by the sun and fireside. Everything they need is provided from earth and water, be it raw materials to be rendered into food or clothing.
>>47925256
No they're not supposed to correspond with that you fucking insipid idiot. It's just that no one knew how to subdivide them and as such assumed they were fundamental elements (i.e. building blocks of everything else)
How anyone could be so stupid as you are bafles me
>>47925539
Is electric/shock/thunder inside of the fire element?
>>47925686
you're making the mistake of assuming there's anything such as universal significance
there isn't
significance is a meme thought up by people who are capable of comprehending what significance is supposed to be: humans
without humans to give arbitrary significance to things, there would be no such thing as significance
I can't believe there are people on /tg/ who are this disconnected from basic philosophy
>>47928790
it's the same way you're artificially segragating "artificial" with "natural" despite there being no difference whatsoever
>>47929347
It was wood, metal, water, earth and fire in china
>>47929530
>it's the same way you're artificially segragating "artificial" with "natural" despite there being no difference whatsoever
There's no difference between the intelligence-driven production of something vs the instinct/physics-driven production of something?
I mean hell, if you've got something at least that distinct for the meta/physic divide, I might accept that. But other than the word "meta", I don't see a real difference between the two.
>>47929465
I'm sure dolphins would do it in our place
>>47929657
The intelligence-driven production of something is also just the physics-driven production of deterministic processes.
>>47929662
I guess I just have to keep them from all leaving before it's too late, then.
Serves them right for taking our fish and bolting
>>47929696
>The intelligence-driven production of something is also just the physics-driven production of deterministic processes.
Assuming the setting or reality in question adheres to determinism, yes.
>>47929723
Even then, what's the functional difference between something being effected by "intelligence" instead of humans?
>>47929747
>Even then, what's the functional difference between something being effected by "intelligence" instead of humans?
Ah yes, I forgot that the standard definition for "artificial" was anthropocentric.
Shall I use the word "construct" instead?
>>47925132
shit taste
classical elements are fucking tight
>>47925649
A fluor elemental would be neat as fuck though.
>>47929839I'm sorry Anon, I was trying to make a joke about humans being unintelligent, I wasn't actually trying to be pedantic
>>47927623
>>when people didn't know better they made up theories to make sense of things
>That is literally what we do now. We just have the advantage of building off of what has come before us.
>That is literally what we do now.
This meme needs to die.
>>47930269Use references, either pop culture or otherwise, with humor. It helps denote that your statements are casual to a reader. Sarcasm is hard to read from an author you do not know.
>>47930462I thought it would be enough to denote "intelligence" as separate from humans but I was obviously mistaken, my apologies senpai
>>47925256
>universal
No they're not. The Chinese and by extension, the Japanese use the five element series.
Fire
Earth
Wood
Metal
Water
Please educate yourself before making sweeping statements.
>>47930379
Spoken like a true engineering fag who doesn't understand epistemology
itt: people 'pretending' to be stupid
>>47930594
Japanese used Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Void
>>47927173
Not to mention if you want to get non-astrally-projected pussy, just say it's that thing Sherlock does.
>>47931140
Heart wasn't edgy enough, I guess
>>47925736
I like you. Good post anon. You pretty much expressed everything I wanted to say better than I could have, which is exactly why OP or any of the other autistic anons here haven't bothered replying to you.
>>47925132
They're not?
At least in my own setting, they're just broad abstractions of energies channeled by mages because magic is kind of a subjective thing. (There's like, thirty different ways to cast fireball, including diffentiation based on shape because some contrarian asshole disagreed with what a 'ball' was shaped like). Sometimes these 'elements' will include things like Aether, Nether, Metal, Wood/plant, etc. etc.
They get dubbed as "The Occult Elements" or "Mystic Elements" to differentiate them from the "Alchemical Elements" which is more what we're familiar with in real life.
>>47931394
Your setting isn't really the best example of the genre as a whole
OP.
Seriously, go check yourself out, if settings not being chemically accurate triggers you this hard.
>>47929338
The word you use to describe something is irrelevant.
You're too stupid to understand words and ideas, so you should probably stop trying and realize that you are not nearly as smart as you think you are.
>>47929447
>electric/shock/thunder
That's plasma. The four states of matter are solid, liquid, gas and plasma. Most high school education skips over it but if you heat up a gas, it moves past that state and becomes plasma.
Stars aren't actually large balls of gas like is often said, they're large balls of plasma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)
>>47932067
You're a fucking retard and have absolutely no ground to call out anyone for a perceived lack of understanding.
A state of matter is the current behaviour or attributes of any given matter.
An element is a fundamental component of matter.
An element can never be a state and vice versa. They are separate things entirely and you're a fucking mongoloid who does not comprehend the meanings of the terms if you disagree.
>>47933983
>A state of matter is the current behaviour or attributes of any given matter.
Yes, because we now have an understanding of reality far superior to the understanding that the Greeks had.
Calm your autism. There's no point in judging history now, it's already happened and no one's alive anymore to punish for the bullshit. Just learn from it.
My fantasy settings have 17 elements: fire, water, electric, ice, rock, ground, psychic, fighting, dark, ghost, flying, dragon, bug, grass, poison, steel, and normal
>>47925132
>are these four arbitrary concepts
As opposed to the four arbitrary real world ones?
>>47935596
this is some pokemon levels of trash
>>47935785
Wow, you figured out the joke but somehow didn't realize it was a joke.
>>47928162
No, you shouldn't.
>>47925132
>Fantasy world things Earth, Water, Wind, Fire are the building blocks of nature
>Incorrectly label them. They are really describing the states of matter/energy: Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma
>>47935534
Woah woah woah, hold on there Anon, I fucking love the classical elements in fiction. In particular, Legends of the Wulin's Secret Arts using the Chinese 5 Elements is one of my favourite "magic" systems of all time
I was just saying that it's asinine to say >>47925137
when your argument is that >>47925539
the elements correspond to states. They don't, can't and never have, or as one Anon pointed out, ice would be Earth, molten metal would be water etc.
I was calling the guy who "called out" OP's "lack of physics knowledge" as being a moronic retard
>>47925132
Because a lot of fantasy creators aren't very creative. There's no reason a technologically primitive but magically advanced society couldn't, for example, have just as solid an understanding of chemistry as we have, but with magical tools and methods for synthesizing or reinforcing rare or unstable elements and compounds that might otherwise be extremely useful.
>>47937503
Oh, okay. Go ape, then.
It is a shame that people get so heated about their own anachronistic interpretation of ancient beliefs, though.
>>47937608
I'm just heated that an anachronistic and fallacious interpretation of an ancient belief is considered factual and used to call another guy a retard.
Pretentious Dunning-Kruger-afflicted morons grind my gears and inflame my autism
>>47925561
No, and all these sad sacks are pulling this stuff out of their ass. The Greek model for classical elements was explicitly an abstract and esoteric thing that doesn't actually equate at all to real states of matter. This thread's full of embarrassing conjecture. Apocrypha in reverse.
You silly sonsabitches need to go actually read up on what you're talking about. It's too obvious you're all gleaning shit from modern fiction and mashing 'real' and rarefied definitions together.
>>47937302
Fire isn't plasma. Ancient people wouldn't even know what plasma is
>>47925276
Sure, in the physical reality we inhabit, you're right. But in a world made of magic, not necessarily. There are no atomic elements, there are just increasingly small pieces of water/rock/whatever. The Greeks considered heat an actual physical tangible fluid called phlogiston. How uncreative do you have to be to be unable to comprehend a different physical reality?
>>47937851
>ow uncreative do you have to be to be unable to comprehend a different physical reality?
That is a pretty hard thing to do. You have to throw out virtually everything you understand about how things work and how that affects the world
>>47937622
Careful, if your autism condition gets inflamed too much it could take you out.
>>47938008
Maybe. Molecular chemistry and atomic physics, while obviously a big part of my life, have absolutely nothing to do with how I experience the world. I don't see H2O, I see water. I don't see a long chain of amino acids bent into complex shapes, I see a piece of meat. It's certainly easy enough to forget all that exists where I'm not seeing or experiencing it.
>>47925132
Fantasy settings have gods, gods don't give a fuck about your logic.
>>47931256
I laughed.
>>47925132
I wouldn't call them arbitrary.
That said, I also wouldn't call them building blocks. I don't treat elements as literal components of physical objects, that just makes headaches for your mechanics.
more like.....axes. Alignments. Properties.
ITT: No one really understands what the classical 4 elements mean.
Fire: Creativity, sexuality and drive.
Water: Emotions and affection.
Air: Communication and thought.
Earth: Facts, matter, action.
These four plus "spirit", the aether, are the building blocks for human beings. That's all you have to understand.
Fantasy takes those four to look cool and do cool shit, and they don't need to make sense in our world. Read on verisimilitude - it's not the same as realism.
>>47935596
Really? Mine has 18: fire, water, electric, ice, rock, ground, psychic, fighting, dark, ghost, flying, dragon, bug, grass, poison, steel, normal, and fairy.
>>47925276
Well there's other magic, anon, nobody's making you use the elemental spells if you have such a hate boner for em.
>>47938151
>Molecular chemistry and atomic physics, while obviously a big part of my life, have absolutely nothing to do with how I experience the world. I don't see H2O, I see water.
You see water because the electron cloud of objects ejects photons which your eyes receive. If it wasn't for atomic physics, you wouldn't see shit. Literally.
>>47931556
It's really not, I just thought the OP was looking for some divergences.
