Ebay appreciation edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
>Novels (Working link as of 02/02/2016)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
>>47911875
looks like it's covered in toilet paper and poop from a sewer.
Orks is best.
![the_creation_of_necron_by_flasherexe-d9fdmta[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I0xs3wG.jpg "the_creation_of_necron_by_flasherexe-d9fdmta[1].jpg")
This thread is undead!
>>47911899
Given that it's Tau that may have been the intention.
>>47911812
Rather Snipers get Precision Shot on 4+ and -2 to LOS.
They also get Pinning back.
>>47911866
350 point models should be GMCs and get Eternal Warrior anyway. Maybe just make 6s do d3 Wounds that don't spill over?
>>47911952
>Sufficiently expensive models should be GCs
No thanks.
I really want to get into painting minis but I just don't have the work space or the ventilation. Do you need really good ventilation to paint minis? Also, I fear fucking up and ruining a mini
>>47911952
>Daemon Princes should be GMC
And the power creep continues.
>>47911926
ID makes them a counter to MCs and deathstars, though. Plus you're not just going to take one sniper scout squad and negate all MCs since there will still be saves to contend with.
>>47911979
With a paintbrush you don't need any special ventilation. Assuming you're using normal acrylic hobby/mini paints.
>>47911971
There shouldn't be 350 point MC models without EW like there shouldn't be 250 point Infantry models without EW.
How is a 1500 highlander style tournament? Never been to a tournament. Should I try it out?
>>47912000
Death stars and good MCs will just laugh off 6s to ID unless they also rend.
If they also rend they will delete most tyranid monsters instantly making a poor codex even worse.
>>47911979
>Also, I fear fucking up and ruining a mini
This is the reason I'm not collecting Black Templars.
Gotta get good first.
>>47912039
tournaments are normally 1850 singles or 2000 pt doubles (1000 per person)
I'm glad none of you retards actually write GWs rules.
>>47912039
Go for it but be prepared to lose badly.
>>47912000
I guess that's where you and I disagree on what we want Snipers to do.
I'd prefer Snipers to become Anti-Upgrade / battle field control. Picking off Special/Heavy Weapon users or Characters.
I'd also rather Snipers become less a Ranged upgrade and more a Special Weapon. (Aka not just take a squad of 10 Scout Snipers, but Sniper Team becomes a 1-3 model per unit style, wounding on 3+, 4+ Precision, -2 LoS. Kinda like a how the Vindicare is, but not as good.
>>47911979
Only with an airbrush or spray can. Unfortunatly most primers are spray can. Only somewhat decent brush-on primers I know are vallejo.
>>47912049
What are death stars again?
>>47912097
One big group that's hyper powerful. Like 10 Librarians on bikes with Force weapons and a rerollable 3++ on every facing.
>>47911902
Yes.
why do i get the feeling you keep making up memes every few months?
>>47912130
>Like 10 Librarians on bikes with Force weapons and a rerollable 3++ on every facing.
That's fucking disgusting
>>47912169
Yeah but it ends up costing like 800 points so it either steam rolls everything or you lose.
FIRST FOR SLAANESH!!
Themesong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiu1hPdJk-Y
Wait so can Slow and Purposeful units assault straight after Deep Striking out of a Drop Pod
How's this, then?
>Sniper Rifle
>Special Weapon (typically one per 5 models)
>S:X AP4 Heavy 1 Precision Shots, Sniper, Rending, Pinning
>Sniper: Automatically Wounds on a to Wound roll of 4+, deals D3 Wounds on a 6.
>>47912227
Nope, you can never Assault the turn you entered the battlefield from Reserves, unless a special rule specifically allows it.
>>47912253
Not one per 5 models no. That's essentially the same weapon it is now but you add the D3 wounds. That's not major enough to warrant being reduced to a special weapon I think. Maybe a point cost upgrade but not by much neither.
>>47912253
Should the D3 wounds spill over?
Also, I agree with >>47912074 that sniper rifles shouldn't just be a convenient, cheap weapon alternative, but should be a choice that has weight and punch. A sniper squad with height and los on a portion of your infantry should be a "Oh shit gotta get those dudes" situation, not what it currently is, a way to make backline objective holders less useless.
Why did they lose pinning, anyway?
>>47912221
powerwolf is a great band for 40k in general
>>47912253
Probably too weak unless you make them free or something. Make them AP2 and 15 points per model.
>>47912356
>Lets introduce more AP creep
Rolled 5, 6 = 11 (2d6)
I roll to hit with my shoota.
>>47912334
I know right? I can't help but imagine a squad of noise marines playing that particular song. It's too ... energetic for a song about boners.
Sacred and Wild/Night of the Werewolves is basically Space Wolves, Armata Strigoi is Vampire Counts/Blood Angels, In the Name of God is Black Templars as fuck..
Rolled 2, 4 = 6 (2d6)
>>47912383
I roll to dakka my target, this thread, with my shoota
>>47912253
Snipers right now would be fine if it used BS more, like
BS1-3 precision shots on 6s
4-6 5s
7-9 4s
10 3s
>>47912356
>Make them AP2
No, man, seriously, don't add to the AP bloat.
>>47912356
People like you are the reason this game has gone to shit, because if it isn't cheap and isn't AP 2 then it isn't worth fielding.
You are a cancer.
>>47912401
That's actually cool. A finesse weapon, reliant on your skill. A scout or guardsman would have only have so much skill as opposed to, say, a vindicare.
>>47912387
>blacktemplars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW2bqSbbo1g
>>47912426
Or an Ork.
>>47912472
Well I'll be damned. I forgot that one and surprised there's a tribute too. Definitely one of the best and most fun powermetal bands around
>>47912381
>>47912406
>>47912414
>Let's make Sniper a slightly different (better?) Plasma
>REEEEEEEE AP CREEP IN MUH SUPERHEAVYHAMMER REEEEEEEE NORMIE GO HOME
Fine, how about AP4 rending, but does D3 wounds (rolled to save once) on any to wound roll?
>>47912401
>>47912426
Because every time I play 40k I stare despondently at my rulebook and wish it had more extraneous tables to roll on.
>>47912539
>super heavies
>threatened by snipers
What about terminators? Meganobs? hell, tyranids as a whole as they don't have easy access to invulnerable saves?
If anything more ap2 just reinforces the superheavy/GMC meta.
>>47912562
>To hit roll
>extraneous
????
You do know how precision shot works, right?
>>47912562
Well, any change will always involve one of these methods:
- It gets more complicated
- It gets more streamlined
- It gets baked into something/homogenized
Pick your poison. If you wanted to play a game where everything's done for you, those exist, they're called fucking videogames. Christ. God forbid you have to have some human input in a fucking physical dice game.
>>47912539
>D3 wounds
Actually, I like this. It makes it more of a budget Vindicare. It shouldn't spill over, though. Also, -2 to LOS! for PS is a good idea.
>>47912573
This.
What you are doing is making elite infantry useless because your sense of the game is so skewed by power creep.
It's sorta sad you don't see this.
>Waaaah vehicles can die in one hit
>Waaaah MCs can't
>Here's my 27th attempt at shitty homebrew to try to rectify my fried rectum
Protip: fuck off.
>>47912587
Roll a 6, choose your target. No tables required.
>>47912597
More streamlined is not a bad thing. Reduced player input is, so don't streamline things by removing choices. But making the game more accessible without making it less dynamic is always a good thing.
>>47912617
>Game is broken
>Let's fix it
>No, if it was broken, GW would have fixed it because that's what they're paid to do
>40k is as fair and balanced as it could ever possibly be
>>47907457
this is what I ended up doing for my Templar, it worked out pretty nice with the BaC marines since the torsos are one piece. also it cost around 40 bucks for the 5 man upgrade to ship to the US which is cheaper than GW shipping the Black Templar upgrade for some reason.
>>47912617
>don't talk about the game
>spam memes instead!
Clearly from /v/.
>>47912668
What they should really do is weed out all the special rules that do the exact same thing. Increasing input wouldn't be seen as complicated if you didn't have to keep track of a million pointless things to begin with.
>>47911979
I use citadel's Imperial Primer, brushed on. You don't need a ventilated space. Also I am not an artist and have never done any sort of art project before and am painting decent minis. I just follow Duncan's advice step by step. He's on gw's youtube channel
>>47912715
Man the 30k Templar Brotherhood minis look amazing.
Do you have a 40k Templar army too?
>>47912668
>No tables required.
Yes?
That's how precision shot always worked. I'm just suggesting that snipers could, say, roll a 5 to hit and if they're bs4 take that that as a precision shot.
>>47912736
Agreed. Also, special rules that confer other special rules (Sniper and Zealot come to mind) are derpy and confusing for new players that have to hunt around in their rulebooks for obscure rules interactions.
>>47912721
You mean like you're doing now?
>I WANT /V/ERMIN TO LEAVE xDDD
>Orks are a melee race!
>I2
>>47912756
I agree. and even if they aren't 100% what the 30k Templars are supposed to look like, I think they look close enough! I'm building a 30k Templars army right now actually. The great thing about 30k Imperial Fists is that you can choose to build your army as the standard wall-building fortifying siege Imperial Fists, or you can take special units and make proto-Black Templars by having Sigismund lead your army. pic related is my WIP at the moment.
>>47912702
It's just fucking tedious that one twat continually goes on about how his precious vehicles aren't as good as MCs he hates. I'm bored of seeing his stupid fucking suggestions for vehicles to no longer explode, for MCs to have an exact copy of the vehicle damage chart, and other shite that just cuts variety from the game.
MCs and vehicles are completely different in mechanics, and the game is more interesting like that. Please stop trying to make them the same.
>>47912770
So you have to have a table comparing your BS to the precision shots requirement. Or is it somehow obvious that BS3 gives PS on a 6 and BS7 and 8 get it on a 4?
>>47912821
You know that you are the first one to bring up anything like that in this thread, right?
Stop being a bitch because someone wants to discuss the game mechanics.
Even as it stands, it is a fact that for much of the life of 40k, vehicles have been shitty death traps, and any walker that wasn't an elite SM dread would get rolled by an MC.
If you are alright with it, say so, but don't prattle on like it hasn't been a long running issue. I remember people also said that old power weapons were perfectly fine, despite shitting on all TEQ infantry for existing.
>>47912852
not him but how about this
>If your sniper has an effective ballistic skill over 5, subtract 5 from your ballistic skill, your precision shot is modified by that amount to a minimum of 2+
>>47912892
>any walker that wasn't an elite SM dread would get rolled by an MC.
I've seen a lot of the game's Monstrous Creatures that are absolutely pathetic in close combat with a Walker with some not even being able to do anything to one with their regular attacks.
>>47912821
tau and eldar MC/GC should be vehicles.
>>47912892
Yeah, because the whole "let's make snipers more deadly" totally doesn't directly follow from last thread's vehicle/MC discussion (which started the sniper idea) right?
MCs are not the problem. A couple of specific MCs are overpowered/undercosted, but thinking that means game mechanics need to change to nerf all MCs shows why /tg/ should have nothing to do with rules writing.
>>47912930
No argument here.
>>47912898
That rule doesn't affect anything because Vindicares already get Deadshot.
>>47912930
Defnitely. it's absolutely retarded that they can't be affected by Melta.
>>47912930
They should probably just create a new type of Unit Category for those.
>>47912996
Why not just Walkers?
>>47912930
I think this is the one thing everyone can agree on.
>>47912938
>totally doesn't directly follow from last thread's vehicle/MC discussion (which started the sniper idea) right?
>>47912938
No, it doesn't, because the point was to make sniper rifles something more than cheap backline alternative weapons.
Further, sniper rifles have been nerfed in the game with successive editions. Look them up in 2e, a sniper rifle was brutal shit, compared to now where a squad of snipers can literally be ignored.
You are the one trying to strap them together.
>>47913004
Maybe the Tau I could see, but not the Wraith Knight and certainly not the Wraith Lord, Wraith Guard and Wraith Blades.
>>47912952
you could make some sort of special rule that snipers get double thier units BS count for double, but that would only really buff the tau so meh
>>47913034
MC discussion aside, the removal of pinning from barrage and snipers is baffling. Shit like Mortars and Snipers are point sinks for a reason that eludes me.
>>47912253
There should be different levels of sniper rifles. Like strength X+2 or assault instead of heavy. Also, for cheap units like guardsmen (and at 2pt a pop) it's perfectly balanced in its current configuration.
>>47913034
>You are the one trying to strap them together.
Nope. The reply chain in the last thread started with vehicle/MC butthurt, then led (>>47911546) to the sniper rifle suggestion, which spilled into this thread.
>>47912813
I might go Imperial Fists with my BaC set too.
I dont know if anyone plays 30k in my area, but it would be fun for sure.
>>47912938
Here's a synopsis of the discussion:
>Vehicles are shit because they're just worse MCs
>Vehicles aren't worse than MCs, they just have different counters
>MC counters are rare and of questionable effectiveness
>Maybe MCs should have an accessible counter like vehicles do
>Sniper Rifles are useless at the moment but fluffwise should be an effective counter to MCs. Let's make it useful.
>Sniper Rifle rules discussion begins
What part of that seems unreasonable for a general thread for tabletop gameplay? If you'd rather spout memes, try >>>/trash/, and if you'd rather talk about the setting, try 40k roleplaying general, and if you'd rather talk about your tiny plastic army men, try WIP general.
>>47913085
see
>>47912074
>I'd prefer Snipers to become Anti-Upgrade / battle field control. Picking off Special/Heavy Weapon users or Characters.
>I'd also rather Snipers become less a Ranged upgrade and more a Special Weapon. (Aka not just take a squad of 10 Scout Snipers, but Sniper Team becomes a 1-3 model per unit style
Yeah, all about those MCs, son.
So a couple threads back I had asked for some help as a newbie, with my goal being I wanted to build up to collection of models that would give me decent take-all-comers lists at 1850, 1500, 1000 and 500.
So I believe we more or less established Khorne Demonkin can fit the bill, and is a much better choice than CSM, which was my original intention.
So far what I'm planning to build from my dark vengeance box and add onto with additional models. Here's my idea so far
Lord of Slaughter:
-Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury
Slaughtercult:
-Chaos Lord with Axe of Ruin (dark ven)
-x2 bloodletter units
-possessed unit
-x2 cultist units (dark ven)
-1x chaos space marine unit (dark ven conversion)
Gorepack:
-2x units of bikers (1 dark ven)
-2x units of flesh hounds
War Engine:
-Helbrute (dark ven)
.That there should get me to well 1k points. How is that for a start? Looking for feedback.
>>47913064
They would be fine as walkers>>47913068
>>47913114
What meme did I spout?
>MC counters are rare and of questionable effectiveness
What is grav? What is plasma? What is poison? What are autocannons and autocannon-equivalents?
>>47913034
sniper rifles should be ID and ap2 on the to wound roll of a 6.
>>47913078
>strength X+2
Just make them Fleshbane, then.
>assault
Really? An assault sniper rifle?
>it's perfectly balanced in its current configuration
It's literally useless in its current configuration, and it makes zero sense to make snipers work best in huge blobs.
>>47913114
My man. It's a synopsis of the discussion so far. Not his opinion.
>>47913163
;_;
>>47913159
To expand: not every MC has 6+ wounds. Not every MC has a 2+ or 3+ save. Don't let the unbalanced examples skew your judgement of the unit type.
>>47913145
They'd be just as wonky as what we currently have.
>>47913159
this. I'm tired of all these 'reasonable marine' players and wanting their edgy sniper units buffed to extreme levels. Doesn't matter though, because they never will be!
Can I counter MCs with just bringing Plasma Guns in every Tactical Squad? No one in my local meta play Riptides or Wraithknights.
>>47913251
Most of them will go down to plasma, if you bring a turn it turns in to a game of him trying to be tricky and get in to combat without giving you a clear shot.
>>47913218
Alright, anon, start listing them, then.
Most MCs either have strong saves or high T, almost all have 4+ wounds. Even then, carnifex is the gold standard of MCs, being durable and a threat in melee and at range.
>>47913159
>What is grav? What is plasma? What is poison? What are autocannons and autocannon-equivalents?
Something that orks have almost none of.
Your move, faggot.
>>47913246
What if it was accompanied by Grav being changed from the unabashedly broken pile of shit it is now to the balanced 30k rules? Plus, nearly everyone gets snipers.
My group is testing a new rule that monstrous creatures take additional wounds from unsaved heavy weapons. Whenever a monstrous creature suffers an unsaved wound, compare its toughness to the strength of the weapon, and it suffers a number of wounds equal to one or more if the strength is greater: S:D functions as normal.
So S6 and S7 would only cause one wound on T6, S8 would cause two, S9 three, and S10 4.
Because internal damage and bleeding is usually caused by impact from a tank shell.
Thoughts?
>>47913298
>Grav
True.
>Plasma
Kustom mega-weapons.
>Poison
True. Well, painboyz technically, but they're not in the army to punch things.
>Autocannon-equivalents
Lootas.
>Carnifex is the gold standard of MCs
And yet it's so weak in the current meta that the advice for most new tyranid players is "don't take carnifexes". (It can be worth taking in one specific build.) Hence why I think the problem is certain specific MCs/GCs, not the unit type in general.
>>47913159
>What is grav?
Something everyone bitches about when you field it due to it being anti-everything, not MCs.
>What is plasma?
Overpriced for years in Imperial armies, not powerful enough in Xeno armies to count as "anti-MC".
>What is poison?
Something only DE can field in abundance. Also, ask DE players how well poison has been working out for them against MCs lately.
>What are autocannons and autocannon-equivalents?
What armies can get those on more than 2 platforms total?
>>47913372
>Holding up a shitdex as proof that MCs are balanced
Orks get superheavies, Orks are shit, therefore superheavies are shit. QED.
>>47913355
Pretty Terrible. Rapes weaker MC's further while stronger MC's are better off. Basically rapes weaker armies and keeps stronger armies on top further.
>>47913302
The fact is that these sniper changes only really buffs marines and other top armies with snipers further into the statosphere.
MC's need to be handled on the individual unit level, not some overarching rule change to a weapon. This whole sniper change is just marine players angry that big monsters (which some codexes need to be effective) ruin their vehicle's days, and their excuse like this >>47913448 guys is that "oh they were a shit armies anyways so it doesn't matter, just help us beat Eldar and Tau."
>>47913355
Dunno, I kind of like it, but it turns Lascannons into the same kind of anti-everything cheese that Gravcannons are now. One Lascannon Devastator squad would flatten most MCs in a single round shooting.
How high quality does my painting need to be to not get laughed out of my lgs if I want to play a game?
I've been painting dark eldar because I like the models but my models don't look great so far. I struggle with eyes and other smaller details.
That doesn't bother me but the fact that your average 40k player seems to be an incredibly good painter is scaring me away from playing.
What is the minimum respectable standard of painted army?
I won't go unpainted because I enjoy doing it and I try to make sure I think my paints but overdo it sometimes.
![pirate_logo_flag_T[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/z1kol1b.png "pirate_logo_flag_T[1].png")
Can I ask a quick question from people who have used miranda before?
Just wondering if you order from her site or if that's just a makeshift catalog and there is actually a email I have to dig up.
I don't want to accidentally throw money into the nether.
>>47913355
Interesting, but what I'd like in general is for certain Heavy Weapons to get Multiple Wounds
>Imperial Guard for example
Autocannons stay the same, but Lascannons (and maybe Missile Launchers) deal 2 Wounds for each failed Saving Throw.
>>47913575
Check out Duncan Rhodes' painting tutorials on Games Workshop's Youtube channel. Helped me a lot.
>>47913575
If it's anything like my LGS, the simple fact you have finished and not half-painted models will awe the locals. Half-painted as a whole is impressive but a wholly painted army is unheard of!
>>47913575
you should go to your flgs's 40k night and see for yourself how good everything is painted. I didn't do this until I learned some basics and painted up most of my stuff to about a 1500 point level.
The result of my visit was me seeing that the people at my flgs are pretty terrible painters, and often just play with 1 color models or even grey in some cases. I basically have the best painted stuff in group now and my stuff isn't even that great. This is why you should see for yourself first. The quality might be a lot lower than you think. Of course if you are British or Euro players will probably have better painted stuff.
>>47913546
>One Lascannon Devastator squad would flatten most MCs in a single round shooting.
And is also expensive as hell.
However, there is a reason no one runs devastators, and that is because they are immobile, and not killy enough for their cost, on top of being on a MEQ chassis that is killed quickly enough.
>>47913611
what, like in fantasy, how some weapons caused multiple wounds on a failed save? That could work, but >>47913546 made a great point about it making devestator squads too good.
>>47913494
Let's list the armies that get Snipers:
>SM
>IG
>Eldar
>Tau
>Necrons
And the armies that have Snipers but don't really:
>Orks
>DEldar
How is making Sniper better just buffing SM?
>>47913647
My flgs has 40k night tomorrow. Will they mind somebody turning up just to watch what's going on?
>>47913659
Exactly like Fantasy (and Age of Sigmar)
And true, but right now 40K is about Quantity of shots not Quality.
Would like to try to swing the pendulum closer to the middle.
>>47913616
>>47913647
Wew lads.
No one will make fun of you at my LGS for not being good, or even playing with some grey, but people here are GOOD painters.
Some of the models I see when I go there look like you could photograph them and put that photo straight into a Codex.
They're good.
>>47913684
*Should have Snipers but don't
>>47913695
Of course not, you big dumbo!
Be respectful, show your enthusiasm for your shared passion, ask to see any models that catch your eye when people aren't playing.
>>47913648
My god are space marine players whiny. Seriously, Necrons pay 40 pts for an autocannon with half range and 50 for a lascannon that shoots 36 inches, and those are considered good.
>>47913684
Because he is a meme'ing shitter, don't evxpect him to make sense.
>>47912930
until they are though i'll keep throwing my 30 gant squads w/ toxin sacs and making them rue the day
>>47913723
Yes, and what else is on them, anon?
Easy to make claims when you post only a fraction of the information.
>>47913648
I see lasdev squads backfielding all the time. Even if they were garbage, they'd quickly stop being garbage if it was a way to put an average of 6 wounds on a T7 MC every turn
>>47913684
>SM top tier
>Eldar top tier
>Tau top tier
>Necrons very good tier
So why do these top tier armies need buffs to killing monstrous creatures again?
>mfw I should be studying for my upcoming differential psychology exam
>mfw im just watching 40k batreps on youtube
FUCK
>>47913796
>If I can't kill it in one turn, what's the point?
>>47913648
This.
I got 3 squads of devastators and sometimes I wish I could just plop them in terrain and blast away all game. But they just can't handle that.
I've been playing so much cc oriented stuff that I'd actually like a gunline for change.
>>47913846
yup, literally tau levels of complaining from space marines today.
>>47913857Twin-linked Las-Cannon Centurion Devastators
>>47913801
Because sniper rifles have nothing to do with it, and whole equipment choices shouldn't be shit because someone is abusing the most broken one.
>>47913846
This is what people think, tho.
>Sniper Rifle (20 pts):
>S:X AP4 36" Heavy 1
>Precision Shots, Sniper, Rending, Pinning, Turbo-Penetrator Rounds
>Sniper: Always hits on a 4+, -2 to LOS! rolls to a minimum of 6+
>Turbo-Penetrator Rounds: Wounding hits with this weapon deal D3 wounds
>>47913906
>Always hits on a 4+
Sorry, wounds on a 4+
>you can now only roll for armor saves if the opponents weapon AP meets your save
>any AP lower than the armor ignores it
>AP values higher than the armor have no chance to penetrate.
There I fixed 40k.
>>47913846
I think you misread my post, friend.
>>47913956
>>47913886
Built mine with Grav because competitive meta. I really should get another box though as despite the common opinion, I actually like the models.
>>47913956
Orks perma fucked, whats our compensation?
So how do you guys decide how to paint your models? Do you go for a canon color scheme, or paint them in original colors, or even homages to non 40k things?
>>47913906
>-2 to LOS! rolls to a minimum of 6+
for what purpose
>>47913956
that basically ruins a few armies though. so no, terrible.
>>47913956
>AP values higher than the armor have no chance to penetrate.
>This kills the Assault Phase
>>47913983
>I actually like the models.
Me too, but only with certain chapters.
They fit really well into Imperial Fists because MUH SIEGE
But if I ever in my life see a Black Templar running Cent-Devs I will shit fire.
>>47913956
You made lasguns literally worthless
You made most of the shooting phase pointless
way to go you just shattered 40k
>>47913992
I sit down, read through the fluff and look at the schemes, and pick out one or two that catch my eye.And then I ignore it and make my own scheme anyway because I'm a fucking faggot that just wants to do his own thing for no real reason. Helps me make them My Dudes I guess
>>47913956
this may be the dumbest most thoughtless post in the thread, and just goes to show the broad strokes of "balance" that people in the 40k general like to gravitate to in order to "fix" the game.
>>47914014
I guess it doesn't actually make a difference. I just figured I'd cover my ass in case of some strange rules interaction. I don't like negating mechanics entirely. Fuck Ignores Cover.
>>47913992
I like to take a base color scheme and add my own ideas to it, usually adding a bit more color on the details that I like. I end up with something slightly different than the original faction's scheme, but something still undeniably of that faction/chapter.
>>47913992
Test models. I try multiple ideas out, look at the painted models next to each other, and decide what to go for for the whole army. Has the added bonus that I can see if a paint scheme is beyond my skill to make look good.
>>47913988
get to be i3
Are formations detachments? Would I be able to take a Court of the Archon in the new Dark Eldar formation?
>>47914163
Formations are a special type of detachment.
Formations and formations are legal
Formations and detachments are legal
Detachments and detachments are legal
Formations and unbound is legal
Detachments and unbound is ILLEGAL.
>>47914163
yes you can
Corpsethief Claws are fucking STRONG holy shit
>>47914163
>Are formations detachments?
Yes
>Would I be able to take a Court of the Archon in the new Dark Eldar formation?
Not unless it's specifically listed in the Formation composition.
>>47914038
I painted them to my own chapter colours. Light brown armor with black trims, white helmets, black weapon casings and blue lenses. They kinda look like Imperial Fists.
For Orks, would it improve things in melee if more of their ranged weapons like Mek Guns and Kannons got the Concussive rule?
I2 wouldn't be so bad when everyone else is at I1.
>>47913846
>>47913879
Superheavy/MC with one HP left is still at full function.
Devastator squad with one wound left is?
>>47914260
It's a decent idea in principle, but the level of planning involved doesn't feel very ork-y to me. Space marines might plan clever combined-arms tactics to disorient the enemies before they charge, but orks are more likely to just sprint in with axes waving.
>>47914322
...still capping the backfield objective he's standing on.jk, I do get what you're saying.
>>47914324
How about a concussive Hammer of Wrath?
>>47914260
It would be fine if Concussive wasn't such a shit rule. It would literally only help you out against MCs and nasty beatstick HQs, against which Boyz fold like wet paper anyway.
>>47914322
Riptide that takes one AP2 large blast loses 1 wound if it fails its invuln save.
Devastator that takes one AP2 large blast loses...?
>>47914388
Wow, groups of models are more vulnerable to blast weapons, whoever saw that coming?
>>47914324
>Space marines might plan clever combined-arms tactics to disorient the enemies before they charge
SM codex doesn't have the tools to actually support combined arms approach. It's been the great failing of the book for decades, imo.
>>47914388
None, because they're in a building or one, because they're behind reinforced high cover.
>>47914324
The idea of Concussive is Orks simply putting enough ordnance in the weapon to create a big boom for the sake of destruction.
It does say their weapons are brutal, loud and noisy.
>>47914322
Dev's don't need to be buffed. Superheavies and certain MC's need fixes/nerfs. All I hear is crying.
>>47914433
>DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT INFERIOR UNITS YOU FAGGOT OR ELSE YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS THE TAUFAGS
>well duh they're bad
Which is it faglord?
>>47914449
>abloobloo superheavies need nerfs
>All I hear is crying
Yeah, yours.
P.S. how'd those "fixes/nerfs" to 6E Necrons, 6E Tau, and 6E Eldar work out for you?
>trusting GW to nerf things that aren't CSM, Orks, or Tyranids
Lel.
>>47914473
Not even the fag you're arguing with, you're just grasping at straws. Of course a unit of models is going to take more casualties than a single multi-wound model if you hit it with a blast weapon, that's what blasts are fucking designed to do.
Also, what >>47914447 said.
Know whats really needs to be fixed?Walkers
>>47914447
>>47914497
>infantry heavy weapon teams have to deal with snapshotting and hiding to stay alive
>MC gets to run around with two battle cannons akimbo diving through the open with a 3++ and still take less damage and lose less combat capacity
>>47914198
Yeah I get how they work in terms of unbound and stuff, I'm just wondering how they interact with Court of the Archon. I know Dedicated Transports can be taken unless explicitly disallowed, but the Court can be taken in any detachment without using a force slot if that detachment has an archon. My guess is you can't, but just seeing what other's think.
>>47914520
>implying walkers aren't actually, alongside infantry, the perfectly balanced standard of 40k and everything else is just broken by comparison
>>47914520
What's wrong with them, apart from being worse than MCs in general, and Dreadnoughts being garbage in particular?
>>47914493
You act as if your changes to MC's is something GW will actually pick up on. No one but you and your small group of friends wants to play with such shitty rules. Typical Marine baby.
>Lel.
okay
Wargear costs are the real problem. Look at scatbikes. People gladly take them. If lascannnons didn't cost a retarded 20 points each devs would be fine. Imagine 70 points for 5 devs then like free lascannnons or 5 points per lc.
>>47914547
>Dreadnoughts being garbage in particular
And Sentinels
And Killa Kans
>>47914565
Which would make vehicles even more gargabe.
>>47914549
>if you hate the OP armies (of which marines are one) you're a marinefag
Okay xenosfaggot/Tau/Eldar/Necronfaglord babby.
Not even a marine player and only using devs as an example since that's what you cucks are whining about. I love how you morons can say "i'm not even the person you're arguing with" but you assume I'm the same moron you're arguing with.
>>47914576
That was caused by hull points, and vehicles right now die to wargear that's automatic takes regardless, or free missile/LC/AC equivalents found on vehicles.
People say MCs aren't broken because Tyranids suck, but Carnifexes and Wraithlords were the Riptides and Wraithknights of their day.
>>47911902
ya boss
>>47914570
Sentinels would be decent and balanced in a game where other shit wasn't as bad. They could be an equivalent to crisis suits/broadsides (armored shooty walker) if crisis and broadsides weren't dumb.
>>47914623
Oh look I'm not the same guy either. And it doesn't matter either way. Your examples and your ideas are just bad. Stop trying to 'balance' the game. You aren't good at it, and the way you argue subjects is terrible too.
>>47914570
Let's fix them, then.
Dreadnoughts get 5++ and Crew Shaken/Stunned immunity.
Sentinels get Camo Netting baked in, shrouding if they moved at combat speed, and stealth if they didn't move.
Killa Kans get a codex that isn't shit from top to bottom.
ITT: Children try to balance the game around whatever faction they play. Badly.
>>47914728
>ITT: Children break the game trying to balance it around whatever faction they play. Badly.
fixed.
>>47914728
I would prefer Sveninch Flacid over this dribble any day desu senpai.
/tg/ I wanna get into the hobby and Necrons seem cool and relatively easy to paint (at a beginner level at least). Are they friendly tactics-wise to a new player? Is the "start collecting" box actually a good place to start?
![1301923_large[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KtrR4PL.jpg "1301923_large[1].jpg")
>>47914570
>And Sentinels
I propose Sentinels to become MCs for the next IG codex and a new GMC unit. Sentinel Knights as LoW with a S:D Heavy Multi-laser Cannon and optional belly mounted Reaper Chainsword.In a serious sense I didn't know Sentinels are shit, I was planning on actually using them in the future to mix things up instead of playing mech Guard.
>>47914757
They are a pretty powerful army. Most of their units have excellent durability so if you fuck up you might not have to watch half your army disappear next turn. They have access to the Decurion that boosts said durability to absurd levels.
The SC box is a great deal, moneywise and gamewise. It saves you a bunch of cash, and the units it gives you are all pretty good. The formation it coems boxed with, which allows you to run the models right out of the box as-is, is also the most powerful of all the so-far-released SC formations.
>>47913721
Im sorry, but your posts make me imagine you speaking like Big Gay Al.
Ya big silly.
>>47914761
They're slower landspeeders with fewer weapons. They might not be bad, but they're certainly not good.
>>47914761
>I didn't know Sentinels are the shit
FTFY
>Walkers may make a Strength test to treat penetrating hits as glancing hits.
>Sniper rifles are S3 fleshbane, armourbane and rending.
fixed
>>47914761
The retarded scale of the Sentinel in this image gets me every time.
>>47914833
I've always been an advocate of allowing Walkers to have strength that can go above 10.
post orks boss
>>47914800
Thanks ya big dumb idiot that's exactly what I was going for!
>>47914866
Yeah, but Orks are gay.
>>47914833
Walkers should either have AP3 base and/or MCs should LOSE their auto AP2.
>>47914909
>>47914934
You mean there's Walkers that don't come with DCCWs? Ones that aren't just artillery, I mean.
>>47914909
plants cant be gay dude
![SentinelCatachan[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/fa3oUVB.png "SentinelCatachan[1].png")
>>47914822
I dream about taking an army of multiple Talon formations just to see the look on my DE friend's face as I charge him waves of Sentinels.
I also dream about future CCW options for Sentinels, like replacing the Chainsword in pic related with a Power Fist for that x2 STR.
>>47914991
Fungi aren't plants, mate.
>>47914995
>Sentinel Power Fist
oh my god
>>47914991
They're not plants you fucking retard THEY'RE FUNGI REEEEEEEEE
>>47915003
>>47915018
look im an ork player you need to cut me some slack
>>47914995
Imagine the sentinel running into a Riptide with the Power Fist.
41st millenium jousting
>>47915041
>He doesn't even know what the race he plays is.
>>47914934
Why don't walkers just get Smash as well? If we pretend like that needs nerfing (kek), make all DCCWs confer Smash. Job's a guddun, Boss.
>>47915126
Wouldn't Smash with a DCCW not do anything except make them A1?
>>47914995
You probably already know, but that isn't a chainsword. It's a tool to cut foliage and shit so the chicken walker can actually walk in a forest.
>>47915126
But aren't DCCWs S10 AP2? Smash would do very little of use.
Smash on walkers would have a few interesting implications. For one thing, rifleman dreads with S6 AP2 attacks. For another, the Triarch Stalker is suddenly versatile enough to be worth it's points.
>>47915126
give all walkers Smash and each DCCW adds 1A
>>47915193
>But aren't DCCWs S10 AP2?
They're Sx2 AP2. Which is exactly what Smash is.
>>47915235
So having two DCCWs gives you 3 attacks on the charge? Instead of having 4+1 attacks base?
>>47914995
Wait, sentinels gave a close combat weapon option? I didn't see that option in the codex.
>>47914833
>Vehicles may make a Strength test to treat penetrating hits as glancing hits.
>If the model has no strength value treat its remaining number of hullpoints as its strength.
>>47915193
>It's a tool to cut foliage and shit so the chicken walker can actually walk in a forest.
Except it's above leg level so it doesn't actually help at all.
>>47915278
>So having two DCCWs gives you 3 attacks on the charge? Instead of having 4+1 attacks base?
Yup. Melee Naughts become terrifying murder machines and all walkers become versatile enough to actually use.
Are there any good novels involving the tau?
>>47915300
>Terrified of having his AV11 Rhino blown up in one shot
>When whatever unit is shooting at it is probably going to have enough firepower to take off all its hull points in one round of shooting anyway
>>47915330
>Yup. Melee Naughts become terrifying murder machines and all walkers become versatile enough to actually use.
How does reducing the number of attacks from 5 to 3 make them more powerful?
>>47915391
>How does reducing the number of attacks from 5 to 3 make them more powerful?
You still have 4 base, +1a for each DCCW +1A for charging.
>>47915278
>Which is exactly what Smash is
Smash is AP2, with the option to swap all your attacks for a single attack made at Sx2 that rerolls armor penetration. Therefore, Smash on a DCCW, which is already AP2 and 9 times out of 10 will bring the user's S up to 10, is mostly pointless because weight of attacks is more important that having a better chance at penning high AVs.
>>47915317
It's 40k. That's what it's supposed to exist for, but it's also probably an improvised weapon extraordinaire knowing Catachan.
Also, why has nobody mentioned Sentinel Power Lifters yet? Those things aren't S10 but they are S8 AP2.
>>47915355
Ones invilving the guard would be prefarable?
>>47915426
please
>>47915426
They don't exist. All tau literature that exists currently is pretty bad.
>>47914665
its not that MCs are broken its that a lot of the broken units are MCs, particularly due to how cheap they are for what they can do
>>47915355
>tau
>good
wew
>tau
>autistic weeb smut
lad
>>47914665
MC's also had much better rules back then.
>>47915420
>mostly pointless
It's entirely pointless because Smash modifies base strength. If your walker is S3 or S4 with an Sx2 weapon, it will still be making attacks at S6 or S8 regardless of whether you use Smash or not.
>>47915235
Sentinels and war walkers are now cc units.
Yep great idea. Exactly what everyone wanted
>>47915286
They don't, as unfit as they would be I want the option because it would be fun.
>>47914520War Walkers or Vypers?
>>47915491
I dont get it. What is so bad about having something it has.
>>47915178
>>47915193
>>47915278
>>47915420
>>47915485
OK, so nobody saw the implication: Walkers with Smash would get AP2 attacks (& have the silly option to go x2 for 1 attack) so that when they lose a Power Klaw or DCCW, they remain a threat of sorts to basically most things.
Yeah, nerfing it to DCCWs would be redundant & stupid. I'm distracted; my wife is in the ER w/ a possible stroke. /blog
>>47915463
I liked the one with the catachans.
>>47915465
You wanted the one with the fucked up face!
>>47911875
So normally I play IG and CSM, but I'm going to have a decent amount of extra money laying about after I finish some contracting work in a month and I'm really liking the lore of the Carcharadons so I want to build the rippingest teariest army possible. I'm aiming for 1850 points and so I've got 1245 planned. What do you guys think needs adding, changing, or being taken away? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
HQ: (190)
Tyberos the Red Wake
Elites: (495)
Terminator Assault Squad
>>6x Assault Terminators w/ Lightning Claws
>>1x Sergeant w/ Lightning Claws
>>Land Raider Crusader
Fast Attack: (210)
Assault Squad
>>4x Assault Marines w/ Bolt Pistol, CCW
>>1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
Assault Squad
>>4x Assault Marines w/ Bolt Pistol, CCW
>>1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
Assault Squad
>>4x Assault Marines w/ Bolt Pistol, CCW
>>1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
Troops: (350)
Tactical Marine Squad
>>9x Tactical Marines w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
>>1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
>>Rhino
Tactical Marine Squad
>>9x Tactical Marines w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
>>1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol CCW
>>Rhino
I like walkers but I dont use them because when they get wrecked it pisses me off if they lie down on their side and show their base or just stand there and its impossible to balance smoke on them as well.
>>47915665
Change it so you buy the ccw and pistol on the tacticals as an upgrade then swap one for a melta and give oen to the sargents for combi-melta.
Give your assault sargents power swords or power axes.
Scouts in land speeder storms is also good.
>>47915606
Walkers without DCCWs are just fluffy tanks, though. Why would you want to melee with them, and why should they be useful in melee? I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, I just don't think it actually makes any sort of difference gameplay.
Good luck, I hope she's okay.
>>47912913
I have had dread claw equiped penatent engines, maulerfields, and soul grinders absolutely wreck face.
Why? Most shit cannot deal with av11 and up in cc. Especially with the grenade nerf.
Get you walkers into terrain and force you opponebt to get near them, almost everyone under rates them in game.
>>47915606
Good luck to your wife man. That shit has to be one of the scariest times of your life.
Hope you gave her Eternal Warrior, just in case.
>>47915606
I hope sherecovers and lives a long and fulfilling life with beautiful children that grow up and play 40k.
Can someone tell me the weps on these guys? I see scatter lasers but I dont know the other wep
>>47914995
use powerlifer, it may not be a power fist, but is better than nothing
>>47915925
Starcannon I believe.
>>47915824
This is true, Marines can't do the Krak Spam, FW can't EMP dreads any more either
