Value of an Independent Variable
>>47894955
...huh, the salient point of the comic was a picture, that's actually pretty rare in the Order of the Words
>>47894955
Looks like the MITD learned more from Ochul than I thought.
>>47894955
Wait, the MitD is holding three things at once.
>>47894955
I just started reading this comic last year. I don't think I've made it past the first 50, but it looks like it doesn't really increase in quality and in fact becomes more wordy. Should I bother?
>>47895050
>started last year
>not even past 50 pages
Do you read like 12 words a minute, anon?
>>47895048
I suppose the umbrella could just be resting on its shoulder.
>>47894955
What's with the attention given to the painting? Am I missing something?
>>47895050
Yeah. It's pretty good.
>>47895078
Notice the difference between the 6th and the last panels.
>>47895076
Orit's a hint.
>>47895078
He's fucking with Xykon and marking off more doors than they went through.
>>47895078
How many doors did it mark? It's pretty easy to mark one X in two strokes.
>>47895082
>>47895087
Ahh. Got it now. Thank you.
>>47895050
>I just started reading this comic last year. I don't think I've made it past the first 50, but it looks like it doesn't really increase in quality and in fact becomes more wordy. Should I bother?
decide for yourself
>>47895048
He also didn't leave any footprints.
>>47895078
He's marking off more doors than they've actually been through, so they end up exploring less of the dungeon and are less likely to find the gate.
Eventually they may mark off everything without finding the gate, and since they haven't been keeping good track, they'd have to start all the way over.
>>47895127
... Or Xykon will realise they're way ahead of schedule and beat the shit out of the MitD.
Of course that's me assuming he can actually defeat it...
>>47895183
That assumes that Xykon counted the number of doors. Which there's no way he would.
Redcloak would be more likely to catch on, but he might not until they're closer to having all of the doors marked.
>>47895183
He can't.
Otherwise his plan for keeping it around makes no sense.
So did the MitD do that because fuck Xykon, or out of compassion for the monsters they've been slaughtering?
>>47895258
Either, or both, and there's also embracing O-Chul's lessons, as >>47895010 points out
So any theories for what MITD is?
I haven't memorized the monster manual of any system because I'm a bad GM
>>47895405
Whatever it is, it's of unusual intelligence for whatever it is, its habitat isn't the rainforest, it seems to be able to teleport/send people away, cause earthquakes, and can eat basically anything.
>>47895439
It also doesn't leave footprints, but if I remember properly can stomp(I'm thinking back to when it caused the earthquake, did it stomp?)
And may have more then one arm
>>47894955
>that last panel
>>47895405
Best guess is that it's somehow related to the snarl. It's too plot important and too well kept under wraps for anything else.
>>47895439
Also implied to have cast Wish.
>>47894955
xykon is somewhere around the 21st-27th level range, right? in order for him to receive experience, even a meager amount, the enemy has to be within 8 level steps. putting the creatures in their somewhere around 13-19 range. the order of the sticks average level is about 13 or 14 is the OotS to weak to tackle this level of dungeon?
>>47895569
He cast Maximized Energy Drain when fighting evil V, a 12th-level spell. That requires three epic feats. He gets one a feat at lvl 21, a bonus feat at 23, and a feat at lvl 24. He is 24 minimum. That fight was a while ago though. Theoretically I don't think there's a cap for how high he could be currently.
>>47895569
He's a sorc.
He cast a maximized energy drain in the duel with V, so he's at least 24th level.
Lich template gives a level adjustment of +4, IIRC, so we're talking 28th at least, and possibly higher.
> the order of the sticks average level is about 13 or 14 is the OotS to weak to tackle this level of dungeon?
I think they're more 15th-16th now, they were at around 13th back when they were defending the city against the horde, but that was a long time ago.
>is the OotS to weak to tackle this level of dungeon?
Very probably.
But we've also known for a while they're too weak to tackle Xykon, so the end result is probably going to involve turning the MitD against him somehow.
>>47895020
Fuck off /tv/.
>>47895072
I just put it down and never bothered to pick it up again until recently.
>>47895542
That's definitely a possible consideration, but it's hard to tell.
Really, we just need to go through and start eliminating creatures that don't at least match up to what we do know and what possibilities exist.
>>47895606
to be fair though, Xykon is horribly optimized so its not nearly as uneven a battle as his level makes it appear
>>47895675
So what edition is this implied to be based off of? 3.5 with some homebrew?
>>47895606
Xykon's gotten quite a substantial power creep since the start of the comic.
Remember, the Order DID defeat him once. Roy bopped his head off his shoulders and hurled his bony ass into the first gate.
Guess that's why Xykon got those boots.
>>47895767
>Xykon's gotten quite a substantial power creep since the start of the comic.
So have the order, I mean, the first few panels involve them running from some gobs and ogres, implying they're like level 2-5 or so. By the time they're fighting those forest bandits, they're already much tougher.
I always kind of figured that first dungeon was more for gags and that the stuff in it should be viewed very loosely for "canon" purposes.
>Remember, the Order DID defeat him once. Roy bopped his head off his shoulders and hurled his bony ass into the first gate.
Not really related, but got me thinking, there's also the weird shenanigans with the greenhilt sword. Especially since the oath is against Xykon, personally, some sort or uberhit, combined with that throw sword maneuver he was practicing in the afterlife, will probably come up in the final fight somehow.
>>47895747
Pretty much.
>>47895767
>>47895820
Xykon fucked around instead of winning properly (as usual), rolled a 1 on his grapple check and got thrown into a gate that oneshot him.
Shit happens.
>>47895747
Yeah. The very first strip has them upgrading from 3.0 to 3.5; the comic has been going a really long time.
There's a non-canon bit in a print-only book the writer did where the Order take on their 4th Edition counterparts, but the main run of the comic is all 3.5 based.
>>47895731
Well, it wouldn't be if the Order weren't also horribly unoptimised (Vaarsuvius is an Evoker with COnjuration and Necromancy barred).
Though Burlew has repeatedly emphasised he cares very little for that kind of thing, seeing as how it makes the conflict far less interesting.
>>47896124
>Though Burlew has repeatedly emphasised he cares very little for that kind of thing, seeing as how it makes the conflict far less interesting.
Makes sense. Very rarely do the roadblocks the party encounters have to do with their class breakdown and optimization.
Roy and Belkar are two of the strongest combatants in the Order, despite, you know, being a Fighter and a Ranger in 3.5.
>>47895183
I don't think he can. Every time someone sees what it is, they remark on how powerful it is/ surprised Xykon even has this thing following him around.
Oona just remarked it's small for it's kind, but it will get much bigger.
Who knows what the little fucker is.
>>47895225
>Redcloak would be more likely to catch on, but he might not until they're closer to having all of the doors marked.
And there's the fact that Xykon will most likely dismiss his concern, because that's what Xykon does.
>>47895569
>>47895600
>>47895606
It's kind of moot though, since Rich isn't strictly following D&D rules anymore.
>>47896040
I haven't seen that one. Has he done a 5e comic, or does he not care at this point?
>>47896143
He's also pointed out that a lot of the mathematically best strategies involve magical touch attacks or save or die effects, which are boring to draw and to look at in comic form. He even makes a joke of it in #456.
He also makes the point that the versatility of spells available (especially when considering splatbooks, but with Core as well) makes it hard to write plots that wizards can't deal with easily, especially when you get to higher levels. Thus, the Order is around Level 16 right now and is unlikely to hit 20 before the finale. With V being an Evoker and Durkon (assuming he is resurrected) being lower level, their access to high level magic will be limited.
>>47896143
>Roy and Belkar are two of the strongest combatants in the Order, despite, you know, being a Fighter and a Ranger in 3.5.
I mean, they are.
But only because the party also includes Elan and Haley.
Both V and Durkon have consistently upstaged both of them (A joke is even made about it, with Durkon slaughtering several Goblins ever swing, and Belkar stabbing a corpse)
>>47896376
I can't remember because it's been forever, but 5e came out during a really long stretch of the plot where meta-jokes about the system were pretty rare. Only now are they coming back in any significant number.
>>47896376
I think he doesn't care. He stated he wouldn't do the update to 4e because he'd have to waste 50 strips explaining everyone's new abilities (seeing as a lot of the audience doesn't play D&D) and he'd have to become familiar with the system itself. The same still applies.
In addition, the strip has changed from a gag-a-day focused on making fun of D&D rules to an actual long-term story with complex plotting and characterisation that happens to be set in a world running on D&D rules.
Besides, the entire reason for the fight against their 4e versions is that there isn't enough time for both version to exist (i.e. players have limited free time to spend on playing both 3.5e and 4e) so they solve the problem by going and defeating comic book characters, video game characters etc.
>>47895820
Weren't they around mid-level by the time they came to the first town? Roy was using great cleave in the first dungeon, which means he was at least fourth level, but he also got weapon specialization meaning he was at least level 6 by then. If I had to guess (and if early strips can be considered fully canon) they probably ran from half of those fights for the sake of conserving resources rather than a sign of weakness.
In any case they've won a LOT of fights since then, seen a through quests to completion, and survived a war (mostly). The Order is probably in the mid-teens by now.
Did anyone work out what the damn thing is yet?
>>47896434
>with Durkon slaughtering several Goblins ever swing, and Belkar stabbing a corpse
When was that?
>>47895405
>>47895439
Are there any DnD creatures that are purely magical/psychic entities? Or some sort of weird aberration? If MITD is some sort of lump of magic energy or hovering Lovecraftian tentacle ball it could explain all the different spells/magical powers, the lack of footprints, the ability to hold things more than once and the severe reactions some people show upon seeing it.
>>47896793
I used to think it might be an Atropal, but there's a comment somewhere that it's unusually intelligent and Atropals are extremely intelligent by default.
>>47896713
Oona did.
>>47896713
>>47896793
>>47896841
There's been a dozen threads worth of speculation and argument on this over on the Giantitp forums.
There's no one candidate that seems to tick all the boxes, but the things that seem most likely are an Athasian Nightmare Beast, a Hagunemnon, A Hunting Horror from CoC, a White/Black Saad and an Uvuudaum. All of those ideas have significant problems with them.
>>47896949
I still maintain the simplest answer is the most likely: the monster is Rich's own invention and has no real connection to any existing creature you'll find in a monster manual.
I also doubt we'll ever know what it looks like. I would hope at this point Rich is an experienced enough writer to know no matter what it is or what it looks like, it'll be underwhelming. It's hidden under an umbrella for a decade.
>>47897064
Except Rich has confirmed that he didn't invent the monster, he knows exactly what is is (and has since the transition to a more plot-oriented comic around strip #100), has been dropping hints about what it is since then, and it is possible (though unlikely) to guess what it is.
He also claims that the answer will be satisfying, which is obviously a matter of personal opinion (I'm on your side, that it wont be) but I believe the rest of it.
>>47897064
>I still maintain the simplest answer is the most likely: the monster is Rich's own invention and has no real connection to any existing creature you'll find in a monster manual.
He confirmed this was not the case, and it will be revealed at some point.
>>47895087
>>47896793
I'm just throwing this in, but could it be possible that MITD is just marking the same door three times? Like there's less dungeons than there are doors?
I think that MITD isn't doing this consciously.
Perhaps it has some kind of True Seeing or x-ray vision on, but can't consciously correlate two facts he may experience with it. It's very dumb, after all.
Also, to verify this superb creature, have you all considered that perhaps it's a completely different creature, even a neutral or good monster, affected by Feeblemind to make it easier to command?
Such powers do not sit well with the concept of a sentient creature not being able to use them with sufficient cunning.
>>47897139
>>47897143
Egg on my face, I guess.
Though I still think it'd be better if it was his own monster.
>>47897273
Again, look carefully between the 6th and last panel, and count the number of red X's from the 6th panel, compare it with the last panel.
>>47895530
Burlew said that it isn't a made-up monster, just an obscure one.
>>47896841
>unusually intelligent
That could work the other way too, as in "an unusual level of intelligence for that creature", what with the MitD being thicker than two short planks
>>47895600
Xykon also has Epic Spellcasting, which puts him at 27+.
>>47897424
Depends whether you're using the colloquial term for intelligence or D&D intelligence. Because in D&D terms, the Monster seems to have high Int (it learns stuff really quickly) but low Wis.
>>47897475
>it learns stuff really quickly
Does it?
Sure seemed to take a while to realise what O-Chul was on about (and his name), if anything I'd say WIS is higher, from what I recall of both the monster and WIS
Either way, "unusual" can equally be unusually high or low.
Whatever it is, IIRC it's still a child/young monster, isn't it?
>>47897273
At this point I think the monster is just pretending to be dumb.
>>47897541
O'chul made note that he was a fast learner when they were playing that game with each other and the MitD went from knowing nothing to incredible competence in a few games
>>47897541
So perhaps it's unusually intelligent for its age? Interesting questions about just how smart a full grown MITD is supposed to be then.
>>47896841
MITD isn't that stupid, just a bit naive.
>Atropal
Well, probably everything fits except the earthquake stomp (btw.. in which strip it happened?)
Man, it's ugly as fuck.
>>47895405
Living wish spell
>>47897910
Oona said the monster looked majestic, which isn't normally how you'd describe an atropal.
>>47897957
I don't think that living spells eat.
>>47898043
Oona IS a bugbear, though. Not sure that they share our definitions of 'majestic'.
>>47898043
Oona is an evil bugbear and atropal is quite god-like evil being. Bugbears and other goblinoids may look at things differently.
>>47898079
He only needs to wish for it at one point.
>>47898081
>>47898097
Wasn't it said somewhere that the monster was going to grow? Atropals don't really grow. Also, an atropal seems a bit too obvious. I think it'll be something really damn obscure.
>>47898173
Right, indeed,I forgot about that.
Plus there is a thing that trappers somehow found A FUCKING GOD-LIKE CREATURE IN THE FOREST AND THEY DIDN'T SHIT THEMSELVES.
>>47896434
Wasn't that in Azure City, where Belkar was still Geased?
>>47898226
That was actually during the first fight with Xykon. Belkar's proven himself equally as strong a combatant since, since he's been shown to slaughter enough goblins to make a mountain out of their corpses while only wielding daggers.
I still don't know how the fuck he's doing that with just two 1d4 weapons.
>>47896739
>>47898226
I'm not 100% positive but that should be from the battle in Xykon's throne room all the way back during the first few strips.
>>47898256
Didn't he have a level or two of barbarian?
>>47898390
He does, but we've never seen him actually rage. Even raging shouldn't add more than like one or two damage to his daggers. Is he just Power Attacking all the time or something?
I just leave it here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)
>>47898454
>Tarrasque
>Obscure
>>47898454
I've been pondering the idea of a baby terrasque for a while. The thing is, Tarrasques are stupid and can't talk.
>>47898471
>>47898496
Consider that many of creatures in Rich world talks even if by monster manual they should not.
>>47898405
Damage dice dont mean dick past like 6th level in 3.5. d4 and d8 has an effective 2 damage increase. Whoop de doo. By 15th level there are plenty of other places to get far more damage.
>>47898522
Yeah, but the MitD is more than just a bit talky. It knows about the Astral plane's properties, and even a bit about arcane vs divine magic.
>>47895078
More than one door is marked by the MitD, meaning that either it has very good dimensional senses and knows when the party has entered bits of the dungeon that are shared by other doors, or he's fucking with the evil party.
Hopefully a blackguard doesn't start spamming "detect good" all over the place or there might be trouble.
>>47898690
MitD is obviously not evil to everyone. They keep him around because he at least seems easy enough to control in spite of his disposition
>>47898522
That still doesn't answer
>Tarrasque
>Obscure
>>47898496
>>47898522
>>47898577
Tarrasques are possessed of animal intelligence, so "Awaken Animal" might work on them.
Bigger trouble is that you don't HAVE baby tarrasques - there is simply "THE TARRASQUE", no cunt to punch, no balls to punish, no children to produce.
>>47899039
>Awakened Tarrasque
I'm reminded of a copypasta.
>>47895569
The OotS is around level 15-16 at this point. I believe V, Elan, Belkar, and Haley are 16, while Roy and Durkon are 15 due to death and ECL shenanigans. V cast a level 8 spell during the desert book, which confirms at least 16.
>>47900056
With all the time and encounters between then and now we can probably pretty safely say 17 at the least.
>>47900056
Remember, most primary spellcasters get their new spell levels at odd numbers. So V would get his 8th level spells at 15th level.
>>47901079
>his
>>47901513
Yes, yes, slip of the fingers.
What's MitD's game?
Why paint extra doors?
>>47903262
So they won't check those doors, I imagine.
>>47897322
>>47897143
>>47897139
>>47897064
>>47896949
It turns out it's Man.
>>47895087
TRAITOR
>>47895405
Tarrasque.
Or an Ethereal Filcher.
>tfw actually seeing best boy again
>>47897139
>He also claims that the answer will be satisfying, which is obviously a matter of personal opinion (I'm on your side, that it wont be) but I believe the rest of it.
Well it can be objectively satisfying in the sense that it satisfies all requirements the comic had set up of what it can be.
>>47901513
V totally is a trapelf tho.
>>47903885
Yeah but no matter what it is, it'll never measure up to over a decade of build-up.
That's just a simple fact of writing. If you spend too long building up a reveal, you'll inevitably reach an irreversible point where it'll fall short.
>>47895087
OH SNAP!
>>47896713
Snorlax
Why is the wolf such an emo?
>>47904117
Humorous purposes.
>>47896713
It could be a Devourer.
They are native to etheral and astral planes, devour and are fueled by captured enemy essences, have a huge list of spells they ignore if they beat his spell resistance and are above most species intelligence range.
They are undead that range from large to huge and drain energy from anything they touch.
>>47904117
Do not dwell on such questions. Nod. Get treat.
>>47904199
Oh and they can have between 13 and 36 HD so the huge versions are fucking terrifying.
>>47894955
Being epic level must be like having semi-permanent blue balls. Always fighting, never leveling
>>47896474
You know, thinking about it that makes sense in setting meta sort of way.
A group starts a campaign, pretty simple dungeon crawl for a laugh. Things become more serious as the dm builds on the world and the players get more invested in the setting.
>>47904072
He's seen some shit
>>47904250
The warrior that has slain all his foes and has no more challenges ahead of him is a classic tragic figure.
>>47894955
So we see 6 mini-panels of applying the X, but then there's four new doors marked with an X. Furthermore, I think from the background grain of the doors in the mini-panels, there could be more doors getting marked that aren't in-panel.
>>47904250
>>47904491
For a modern example, see One Punch Man, where the main character suffers from the inability to be challenged by any of his foes.
>>47894955
You guys think it's intentional that the MitD doesn't leave footprints in the snow?
>>47905734
On closer inspection, Imma say no.
There aren't 4 sets of footprints in the snow for the other 4 and for all we know he just jumped the snow from the door.
>>47895405
Anyone wanting "insight" into the probable nature of the MitDarkness, the nerds on the OotS forums have been analysing literally everything for years.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488773-Summon-MitD-IX-Roll-on-Section-3a
>This thread has, over the last 350 pages, accumulated a lot of knowledge about MitD. However, you don't need to read the whole thread (and the previous seven) to get up to speed. So long as you are reasonably familiar with these first five posts, you can jump right in, with no need to read more than the last few pages. On the other hand, please don't be surprised if your insight has been proposed before.
>For relevant MitD canon and in-depth analysis of central MitD scenes, check section 1
>For specific characteristics of MitD, check section 2
>To see all suggestions so far (and particularly, if your idea has been mentioned before), check section 3
>Thread rules and FAQ, check section 4
>If you want to propose a new creature, consider using the following question template:
>1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
>2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
>3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
>4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
>5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
>>47894955
Carry some bloody Wands of Cure and Inflict Light, you stupid Cleric.
Or create an undead that has a negative energy touch and have that be Xykon's healer, or [insert a dozen easy ways for a high level party to maintain their health].
>>47896713
It's Mew. Has it used Crabhammer at any point? How pissed would people be if it was something not from DnD, but still not something he made up?
>>47896949
To throw in something pointless, too:
What about a fiend, one that happens to be non-evil?
>>47908733
That's possible. The issue is fiends are supposed to be Evil, but Rich has exhibited a very vocal dislike or the concepts of racial alignment. Yet all fiends in the story have been presented as 100% evil, and not even complex evil like Redcloak's.
It would certainly fit with quite a lot of the evidence, though. The one objection is it's rare for fiends to have parents, which the MitD does.
>>47908797
>parents
Could be explained by them not being his literal parents.
The growing is of course also a problem, but some do that (like Kythons, who are not an option).
About the alignment, the Monster might simply be abnormal in that regard.
I don't actually think it is, because it would be awefully convenient.
>>47908797
Is it really "racial" alignment when you're not a traditional biological mortal offspring-producing "race" but rather solidified Evil formed in a universe that is made enitrely out of Evil?
Then again Rich may be going off the standard D&D rules on this one as well and have fiends not literally be made of Evil.
I wonder if Xykon knows what the monster is doing, I mean there was a pretty big previous situation where there was a very clear distinction between him not knowing and him not caring
>>47908867
>>47908899
Fiends do seem to be beings that originate from the plane of Evil, although they could be Evil because they spend most of their time in a Plane of Evil rather than because they are Evil by default.
Cecilia is an Air Spirit who is Lawful Good, and is capable of acts both Evil and Chaotic, and also has parents (admittedly, as part of an overbearing mother joke), so it is possible
>>47908949
There's a bit of a difference there. Him knowing one of his subordinates (with whom he currently shares goals) is going to betray him in the future and preparing for it (both with Righteye, and possibly with Redcloak) is very different from a subordinate deliberately working against him right now, directly hindering his attempts to reach his goals. That's not the kind of thing Xykon stands for.
>>47908797
>>47908974
Rich is very black and white with regards to the alignment of undead and fiends.
And it makes sense: a fiend is not like a half fiend raised in Hell, nor is it like the fiendish behirs and other lower planar fauna, its a spirit of evil. Its form is a manifestation of its alignment; in many cases, though this is only spottily enforced throughout the editions, changing alignment changes the form of the creature.
>>47909001
on the other hand MITD might actually be stronger than him and at the same time is his trump card against Redcloak's eventual betrayal so maybe its a combination of not wanting to force things and at the same time a high degree of curiosity as to where exactly the monster found both balls and a moral compass at the same time
>>47897273
We know its something that normally can't or doesn't talk.
I also don't see why you think its dumb.
>>47897910
>>47898043
>>47898097
Atropals kill everything near it just with their presence.
>>47906621
The dude has probably, in all likelihood, used up every wand of Cure X he's ever found. Exactly where would he buy them?
You call him stupid, but you also seem to be proposing making Xykon less dependent on him.
Can oonas dog become a recurring character, please?
>>47909233
He's his animal companion, probably. Or, as Dungeonscape was probably the only D&D book Rich ever participated in, eh could be the beastheart adept, explaining how he has two magical beast servants.
>>47904199
But wasn't the MITD healed lsst strip by Cure Wounds by Redcloak. Meaning he can't be Undead?
>>47909144
>You call him stupid, but you also seem to be proposing making Xykon less dependent on him.
He doesn't need Xykon to be dependent on him for healing.
Xykon could ALREADY get another cleric to do that.
Xykon needs him for the plan, and ONLY the plan.
>>47909366
>He doesn't need Xykon to be dependent on him for healing.
But it helps.
>Xykon could ALREADY get another cleric to do that.
Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't. Certainly he couldn't get anything more than a lowly plebl cleric that'd take over a week to heal him to full.
>>47909336
So, what have we learnt from these last few strips?
>Knowledge of Astral Planes
>Can float?
>Has at least three arms or grasping appendages
>Not Undead
>It has 2 eyes
What about one of the higher level Demons or Devils? Could a Pit Fiend hold an Umbrella with it's wings?
Then there's the question of it's alignment, even at the start it was at worst neutral evil, and by this point is well on the way to neutral good. Although that's a full thread argument right there like all alignment discussions.
>>47909402
He explicitly can.
That's explicitly the threat Redcloak lives under, that's WHY Xykon can threaten him into not healing his eye.
>>47909366
>Xykon could ALREADY get another cleric to do that
He did.
Redcloak killed her, it was considered an acceptable loss.
I see 0 reason he wouldn't do it again.
>>47909452
It eats and sleeps. It can't be any kind of celestial or fiend.
It can be mind controlled by a normal spell. Its not an undead or construct.
It can be made into undead, while being unable to make them. This probably indicates its not a celestial or fiend, and absolutely indicates its not an undead or construct.
Its something that normally does not talk.
Its something more sickening than terrifying, probably ruling out pit fiend.
It behaves in generally a neutral to good fashion, absolutely 100% ruling out any kind of fiend.
Finally, it recalls a parent that was huge, which probably rules out a fiend.
The size rules out a dragon, as they only get massively powerful and magical with age and thus size.
It is known to be 30 years or so of age, which also rules out pit fiend.
Various creatures exist in different levels of probability, of all the things that have been ruled out, fiends, constructs, and undead have been ruled out the most.
>>47909336
Maybe. Xykon was there, too, and he was unaffected, so RC may have chosen to target just himself, Oona and Greyview.
>>47909512
So we're looking for something monstrously powerful, enough that Xyklon would have problems dealing with it, but isn't usually intelligent enough to talk.
Can anyone post the version of the comic where someone edited a shit ton of words out of it and made a bunch of incoherent sentences with em?
>>47909564
It might normally be decently intelligent, but doesn't usually speak.
Its probably a horrifying aberration like a protean, although its unclear how it could get a wish or teleport other as a supernatural ability. There's tons of aberrations and nearly aberrations that fit the bill.
>>47909620
Also, the problem with all the freaky aberrations like that that nearly fit (proteans, ethergaunts, etc) is that their eye situation is... improbable.
>>47909069
>fiendish behirs and other lower planar fauna
Hm, maybe.
>>47909498
she was a wizard, harry
>>47909709
She was a cleric/wizard.
Of course, no possible replacement for Redcloak would come near him in power, most likely. Unless it was something like a derf vampire, though doubtful.
>>47909782
vampire template does very little for a cleric to increase his power at the levels we're talking about
even with all the fancy powers he received Durkula is not even close a match for Redcloak
>>47908644
Adult mew wouldn't be huge
No Thog edit?
>>47909847
Durkula is fairly powerful. He was already in the neighborhood of Redcloak, and now has immunity to nearly everything other than pure damage -- which he can repel with Antilife Shell. If 'killed', he can be back in a few hours (if he gets a coffin anyway, I can't recall). And he has who knows how many spawn.
The spawn are really the big point for vampires -- either two vampire minions of your HD, or one vampire minion of twice your HD.
Am I the only one who finds it EXTREMELY significant that some of the creatures in there were powerful enough to give Xykon XP?
>>47909940
I'd say Redcloak's access to 9th level spells would still edge out all of the vampire benefits
and lets not forget the possibility of at least one epic level
and while spawn are a big point, clerics tend to be fairly adept at dealing with them
>>47909992
It also means that Oona is hella ripped.
You know, I've seen people bitch and call Burlew an SJW for stuff that he does in his comic, but I've never gotten that vibe off of him. All the stuff he does, he just DOES. He doesn't make a big deal out of it, he doesn't draw attention to it going "HEY LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE I'M BEING", he just writes it in and it flows naturally as a result.
Dude deserves respect for that. A lot of webcomic writers could learn from him here.
>>47909996
I'm not sure he has 9th level spells, what has Redcloak done that was a 9th level spell?
Anti undead stuff is very unreliable, especially rebuke/turn undead. There's also the disadvantage of that he would know to prepare against it.
Primarily what you'd have to rely on is direct damage against a guy nobody can come near.
Additionally this wasn't particularly a point in a 1v1 matchup but to point out that he's one of the most significant and powerful beasties around, and certainly comparable. He's off by, at most, 1-2 spell levels.
>>47910065
Burlew is a brony though
>>47910087
Have horses EVER been important in OotS?Did we have bestiality jokes with Miko and her steed? I vaguely recall something like that.
>>47910087
Doesn't creep into the comic, so I don't care.
>>47910065
The only SJW moment in the comic I'm aware of is where they make a big deal over covering up a stick figure's tummy.
>>47897424
That would be something like "of unusual intelligence". "Unusually intelligent" specifically means that it has more intelligence than one would expect... you wouldn't describe something that's smaller than normal as "unusually large", for example, though "of unusual size" would be appropriate.
Of course, what the phrase could mean depends on the specific wording used. Did the author himself specifically say "unusually intelligent", or "of unusual intelligence"?
>>47910073
according to a quick search redcloak cast implosion, but only after gaining a level which puts him at 17, 18 if this dungeon gained him a level (which it might have given its got monsters inside powerful enough to give an epic sorcerer with lich template ontop of that xp)
>>47910073
He used Implosion onscreen at least once.
>>47910112
Yeah, but they were told by Belkar at her expense.
>>47910139
>>47910137
That's good then.
>>47910172
and he does have that red cloak which is an ungodly powerful artifact directly blessed by his deity
on the other hand Durkula does have Hell pretty much on speed dial given his importance to her
would be an interesting fight, then again cleric battles...
>>47910229
>forgot to warn the hobgoblin elder to get off the mammoth
lel
>>47910229
I love that later on when he's in line in the afterlife, he's going 'wait I had a 24!'
>>47910395
Do you have the strip number for reference per chance?
>>47910444
Took a wild guess on the region and got lucky: Number 486. Also apparently a 22.
>>47910444
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html
>>47910472
>>47910477
Thanks, anons.
Oh. It was a 22. Would that have saved him?
>>47910497
Assuming Redcloak had Wis 19 or less and no other mods on DC
>>47909936
For once it has a visual punchline. Thog edits are only making fun of talky talky comics.
>>47909144
>Exactly where would he buy them?
Greater teleport to any largeish city. Find magic item store. Walk in.
>"Hello. I am a level 17 evil cleric. My friend the skeleton here is an epic level evil necromancer. He's also kind of a dick."
>Hey, takes one to know one.
>"We're taking a bunch of your wands. If you waste a bunch of our time by calling the cops or some local adventurers, we're going to kill you and everybody you know."
>We might do that anyway. Dicks and all that.
>"Any questions? Good."
>>47910821
That's just gonna get some other party of adventurers coming after you
>>47910834
And? Xyklons AREALDY got probably the highest averaging Adventuring Party in the setting after him, a few more level 5 chumps aren't going to make much of a difference.
>>47908644
Maybw it's an escaped meme, like you
>>47911007
>>47910821
>level 5
If you're taking it as an article of faith that the DMG's community guidelines are always the case, then you're going to get a hell of a lot worse than level 5 people gunning for you. Just don't.
>>47895050
>increase in quality
Show us YOUR masterpieces,Kirkman
>>47895183
No INT needed for a sorcerer ?
>>47904117
The Wolf is a counter to Oona's cheerfulness
>>47895050
No.
I'm vaguely curious about OotS, but reading a decade's worth of "words: the comic" makes me wanna drink a gallon of bleach.
>>47912248
Oh read it you fucking girl
>>47912248
Shit or get off the pot.
>>47912248
Just think of it as a graphic novel, you pussy. It actually flows very well when you're not waiting days or weeks for the new strips.
Can someone post the comic that mentions MitD's intelligence?
Because keep in mind that "unusual" does not necessarily mean "unusually high."
>>47912329
Who the fuck reads graphic novels?
>>47912457
Nerds, weebs, weeby nerds.
>>47912445
It's in Start of Darkness, I'm afraid.
>>47912329
>It actually flows very well
ah ha ha ha
good one
OotS is like "nothing happens until everything happens at once: the novel, now in comic book form"
>>47911036
still nothing close to the level required to pose a threat to a epic sorcerer lich
>>47904117
It's name is greyview. I assume it's a joke on game of thrones and Oona's general disposition.
>>47909478
Actually, it's because red cloak doesn't want all this suffering and him murdering his own brother to be for naught. Then there's the fact that Red Cloak can manipulate Xykon fairly well nowadays. Also, I imagine finding another high level arcane caster who would go for destroying the world/world domination would be next to impossible.
Wait Redcloak is undead?
>>47913781
No, of couse not
>>47912543
Nah, he's a level 13-15 cleric, that's more than enough to be a threat to an epic lich and possibly destroy him, especially in tandem with others.
>>47894955
So what could the thing under the umbrella actually be if the pay off is actually good and they don't go "whoops, it was a kobold all along, that's the joke !" ? Are there any theories based on the bestiaries from that edition ?
>>47914044
Snorlax
>>47914044
>Are there any theories based on the bestiaries from that edition ?
Lots. Protean is the most likely.
>>47914096
Can proteans teleport people though?
>>47910087
Wow, that totally changes literally everything about the comic and the specific topic. Kill yourself.
>>47910426
It's like someone made a OotS movie trailer.
>>47895085Spoopy
>>47914296
They can teleport people to other planes, if it was a celestial plane they may have sent him elsewhere.
If this isn't good enough then it has to have been some mortal, organic creature that can produce wishes -- not many qualify.
>>47914044
GitP forums are on their 9th or more thread theorizing it. They have their major criteria for what it could be logically organized along with all the best guesses. All have flaws though. I think their best guesses are hunting horror from coc, abyssal nightmare creature or something, protean, black/white slaad and some others.
It's been a while since I looked at a monster manual - what about that shoggoth analogue? Something Mouth?
>>47914502
He teleported V and O-Chul, so he has to be able to do that.
>>47915603
That thing can't cast teleport and isn't worth keeping around if you're an epic level character like Xykon. Whatever MitD is, it's got to be something strong enough someone who can cast absurdly high level spells is ok with carting around.
>>47915932
>He teleported V and O-Chul, so he has to be able to do that.
I know. Your choices are:
1. Plane Shift (assume that a local sent them back near instantly, perhaps a deity)
2. Wish
3. Miracle
If he's a 3e monster, the only one that fits 100% of stuff we've seen is the Protean.
>>47913781
How the fuck did you make THAT deduction?
>>47910139
>>47910137
Strip #826. He actually casts Implosion twice.
>>47895183
That's only if MitD gets greedy and marks up 80% of the doors when they are supposed to be at 50%. The smart thing is to keep it within a 5% increase so they don't catch on and maybe one of the doors he market is jackpot.
>>47895606
Lich has full spellcasting progression on those four levels.
>>47910112
See pic attached.
>>47919290
>Blanket in the way
Faggot
>>47909366
level 17 clerics don't grow on trees though
>>47918780
he actually only casts implosion once, you can concentrate up to four rounds with implosion and turn 1 person into goop each round
>>47909996
However, from what we've seen Redloack loves save or die spells, which durkula is mainly immune to
>>47920764
Not so. He loves summon spells, specifically summoning elementals that are outside the classic fantasy elements.
>>47905734
Yeah, if you go back through previous comics in the snow, the MitD doesn't leave footprints while everyone else does
>2 days
>thread still up
This was a popular one
>>47910229
>"THEN LET US NOW BEGIN THE ULTIMATE DUEL BETWEEN CLERICS!"
>Proceed to trade save or lose/save or die spells till someone fumbles.
Scenes like this is why I love 3.P so much
>>47922390
Well, something relatively major did happen.
