Scourge of God Edition
Previous thread: >>47771646
Get in here, post games, miniatures, questions, whatever you like.
List of mini providers:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uGaaOSvSTqpwPGAvLPY3B5M2WYppDhzXdjwMpqRxo9M/edit
List of Historical Tactical, Strategic, and Military Drill treatises:
http://pastebin.com/BfMeGd6R
ZunTsu Gameboxes:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yaokao3h1o4og/ZunTsu_GameBoxes
/hwg/ Steam Group:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tghwg/
Games, Ospreys & References folders:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lu95l5mgg06d5/Ancient
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/81ck8x600cas4/Medieval
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/w6m41ma3co51e/Horse_and_Musket
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vh1uqv8gipzo1/Napoleonic
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/bbpscr0dam7iy/ACW
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/bvdtt01gh105d/Victorian
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b35x147vmc6sg/World_War_One
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/z8a13ampzzs88/World_War_Two
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/z8i8t83bysdwz/Vietnam_War
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7n3mcn9hlgl1t/Modern
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8tatre3vd10yv/Avalon_Hill
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/pq6ckzqo3g6e6/Field_Of_Glory
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/r2mff8tnl8bjy/GDW
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/whmbo8ii2evqh//SPI
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ws6yi58d2oacc/Strategy_%26_Tactics_Magazine
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lx05hfgbic6b8/Naval_Wargaming
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/s1am77aldi1as/Wargames
>Wargaming Compendium
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cghxf3475qy46aq/Wargaming+Compendium.pdf
>Saga
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/alj31go19tmpm/SAGA
>Black Powder
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o5x6blwoczojmfr/Black+Powder.pdf
>Bolt Action
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/n7jmdnlv1n0ju/Bolt_Action
>Hail Caesar
https://mega.nz/#F!s9xTTDpQ!CasEjRETeqZsJ5LOzYrJdg
>Warhammer Ancient battles 2.0
http://www.mediafire.com/download/uttov32riixm9b0/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+2E.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ta7aj1erh7sap1t/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+-+Armies+of+Antiquity+v2.pdf
>Warmaster Ancients
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cifld8bl3uy2i5g/Warmaster+Ancients.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3emyvka11bnna1b/Warmaster+Ancient+Armies.pdf
>Advanced Squad Leader
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/d9x0dbxrpjg48/Advanced_Squad_Leader
>Impetus
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/28i9gevqws518/Impetus
>Ronin
http://www.mediafire.com/download/m8xke04pc3hne2k/Ronin.pdf
>Battleground WWII
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cb83cg7ays4l1/Battleground_WWII
>By Fire And Sword
https://mega.co.nz/#!jxgCWTYD!FCp52DAqIUc-EM-TsRsWv7fB92nJ3kkzKsNcD_urI5Q
>Modelling & painting guides
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7b5027l7oaz05/Modelling_%26_Painting_Guides
>Twilight 2000/2013 RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!C9sQhbwb!NVnD4jvUn5inOrPJIAkBhA
>Phoenix Command RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!b5tgXRwa!mzelRNrKPjiT8gP7VrS-Jw
>Next War (GMT)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/eupungrg93xgb/Next_War
>Battlegroup
https://mega.nz/#F!SolyxarJ!GUg6zWBStfznr6BvYedghQ
Desired scans :
Black Powder supplements
Rank and File supplements
Harpoon 3 & 4 supplements
Hail Caesar! Late Antiquity to Early Medieval Army List
Force on Force supplements
Hind Commander
At Close Quarters
War and Conquest
Germany Strikes!
Bolt Action: Empire in Flames
20th of June in military history:
451 – Battle of Chalons: Flavius Aetius' battles Attila the Hun. After the battle, which was inconclusive, Attila retreats, causing the Romans to interpret it as a victory.
1620 – The Battle of Höchst in the Thirty Years' War.
1631 – The Sack of Baltimore: The Irish village of Baltimore is attacked by Algerian pirates.
1685 – Monmouth Rebellion: James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth declares himself King of England at Bridgwater.
1862 – Barbu Catargiu, the Prime Minister of Romania, is assassinated.
1900 – Boxer Rebellion: The Imperial Chinese Army begins a 55-day siege of the Legation Quarter in Beijing, China.
1940 – World War II: Italy begins an unsuccessful invasion of France.
1941 – The United States Army Air Corps is deprecated to being the American training and logistics section of what is known until 1947 as the United States Army Air Forces.
1944 – World War II: The Battle of the Philippine Sea concludes with a decisive U.S. naval victory. The lopsided naval air battle is also known as the "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot".
1944 – Continuation War: The Soviet Union demands an unconditional surrender from Finland during the beginning of partially successful Vyborg–Petrozavodsk Offensive. The Finnish government refuses.
1963 – The so-called "red telephone" link is established between the Soviet Union and the United States following the Cuban Missile Crisis.
1979 – ABC News correspondent Bill Stewart is shot dead by a Nicaraguan soldier under the regime of Anastasio Somoza Debayle. The murder is caught on tape and sparks an international outcry against the regime.
It is 1,565 years since the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains (or Fields), also called the Battle of Châlons or the Battle of Maurica. It was fought between a coalition led by the Roman general Flavius Aetius and the Visigothic king Theodoric I, against the Huns and their vassals commanded by their king Attila. It was one of the last major military operations of the Western Roman Empire, although Germanic federates composed the majority of the coalition army. The battle was strategically inconclusive: the Romans stopped the Huns' attempt to establish vassals in Roman Gaul, and installed Merovech as king of the Franks. However, the Huns successfully looted and pillaged much of Gaul and crippled the military capacity of the Romans and Visigoths.
In the years preceding 450, Roman control over Gaul and its other outlying provinces had grown weak. That year, Honoria, the sister of Emperor Valentinian III, offered her hand in marriage to Attila with the promise that she would deliver half the Western Roman Empire as her dowry. Long a thorn in her brother's side, Honoria had earlier been married to Senator Herculanus in an effort to minimize her scheming.
Accepting Honoria's offer, Attila demanded that Valentinian deliver her to him. This was promptly refused and Attila began preparing for war. His planning was also encouraged by the Vandal king Gaiseric who wished to wage war on the Visigoths. Marching across the Rhine in early 451, Attila was joined by the Gepids and Ostrogoths. Through the first parts of the campaign, Attila's men sacked town after town including Strasbourg, Metz, Cologne, Amiens, and Reims. As they approached Aurelianum (Orleans), the city's inhabitants closed the gates forcing Attila to lay siege. In northern Italy, Magister militum Flavius Aetius began mustering forces to resist Attila's advance.
>>47871676
Moving into southern Gaul, Aetius found himself with a small force consisting primarily of auxiliaries. Seeking aid from Theodoric I, king of the Visigoths, he was initially rebuffed. Turning to Avitus, a powerful local magnate, Aetius finally was able to find assistance. Working with Avitus, Aetius succeeded in convincing Theodoric to join the cause as well as several other local tribes. Moving north, Aetius sought to intercept Attila near Aurelianum.
Word of Aetius' approach reached Attila as his men were breaching the city's walls. Forced to abandon the attack or be trapped in the city, Attila began retreating northeast in search of favorable terrain to make a stand. Reaching the Catalaunian Fields, he halted, turned, and prepared to give battle. On June 19, as the Romans approached, a group of Attila's Gepids fought a large skirmish with some of Aetius' Franks. Despite foreboding predictions from his seers, Attila gave the order to form for battle the next day. Moving from their fortified camp, they marched towards a ridge that crossed the fields.
There are no conclusive assessments of each armies' strength; with estimates ranging from 30-50,000 on each side.
Playing for time, Attila did not give the order to advance until late in the day with the goal of allowing his men to retreat after nightfall if defeated. Pressing forward they moved up the right side of the ridge with the Huns in the center and the Gepids and Ostrogoths on the right and left respectively. Aetius' men climbed the left slope of the ridge with his Romans on the left, the Alans in the center, and Theodoric's Visigoths on the right. With the armies in place, the Huns advanced to take the top of the ridge. Moving quickly, Aetius' men reached the crest first. Taking the top of the ridge, they repulsed Attila's assault and sent his men reeling back in disorder. Seeing an opportunity, Theodoric's Visigoths surged forward attacking the retreating Hunnic forces.
>>47871693
As he struggled to reorganize his men, Attila's own household unit was attacked forcing him to fall back to his fortified camp. Pursuing, Aetius' men compelled the rest of the Hunnic forces to follow their leader, though Theodoric was killed in the fighting. With Theodoric dead, his son, Thorismund, assumed command of the Visigoths. With nightfall the fighting ended.
The next day, Attila prepared for the expected Roman attack. In the Roman camp, Thorismund advocated assaulting the Huns, but was dissuaded by Aetius. Realizing that Attila had been defeated and his advance stopped, Aetius began to assess the situation. He knew that if the Huns were destroyed, that the Visigoths would likely end their alliance with Rome and would become a threat. To prevent this, he suggested that Thorismund immediately return to the Visigoth capital at Tolosa to claim his father's throne. Thorismund agreed and departed with his men. Aetius used similar tactics to dismiss his other Frankish allies before withdrawing with his Roman troops. Initially believing the Roman withdrawal to be a ruse, Attila waited several days before retreating back across the Rhine.
Like many battles in this time period, precise casualties are not known. Primary sources immediately note the battle for being exceptionally bloody. Prosper Tiro of Aquitaine states that the battle was a mass slaughter, writing immediately afterwards others state or indicate the casualties were extreme.
The philosopher Damascius stated that the fighting was so severe "that no one survived except only the leaders on either side and a few followers: but the ghosts of those who fell continued the struggle for three whole days and nights as violently as if they had been alive; the clash of their arms was clearly audible". A further reason for the reputation of this battle is that it was the first major battle since the death of Constantine I where a predominantly Christian force faced a predominantly pagan opponent.
>>47871725
>For, if we may believe our elders, a brook flowing between low banks through the plain was greatly increased by blood of the slain. It was not flooded by showers, as brooks usually rise, but was swollen by a strange stream and turned into a torrent by the increase of blood. Those whose wounds drove them to slake their parching thirst drank water mingled in gore. In their wretched plight they were forced to drink what they thought was the blood they had poured from their own wounds.
While historians will never entirely agree on the details (they're not even sure where it was fought), this battle is one of the biggest and bloodiest of its era, and begs to be reproduced on the tabletop. The relative balance of forces means either side could pursue a more comprehensive victory than the historical result, and there are plenty of colorful units and troop types.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/sdu737bodi9xfnq/Osprey+-+CAM+286+-+Catalaunian+Fields+451.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5u9f031ip7duoq8/Osprey+-+ELI+030+-+Attila+and+the+Nomad+Hordes.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7j30o13k9lzy4tc/Osprey+-+WAR+009+-+Late+Roman+Infantryman+236-565.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/zhw5n81y3pz2xru/Osprey+-+WAR+015+-+Late+Roman+Cavalryman+236-565.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/17mja4dp1zvat4f/Osprey+-+WAR+017+-+Germanic+Warrior+236-568.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0ziulke4fjet3t4/Osprey+-+WAR+111+-+Hun+375-565.pdf
Why cant I have world war 2 games set 1500 years ago, my friend keeps getting mad when I state the campaign is in 500 AD but apparently thats a no go but its my gaem so why not
>>47871829
wtf?
>>47871662
> 1940 – World War II: Italy begins an unsuccessful invasion of France.
You don't say.
>>47871863
Shush now. We just put those candystripes on our ships because it makes them look bitching, not because of poor coordination between the branches of our military really!I love the Regia Marina, and by extension the Italian military because individually they were awesome, but together they were terrible.
>>47872019
Well, nobody ever said the Italians don't have style.
>>47871863
That's what happens when you send untrained, poorly led conscripts into suicidal WW1-era attacks with shitty leadership in terrible terrain and freezing weather. Mussolini was such a dick.
>>47872055
Always noticed a lot of women in the modern Alpini
>>47872066
> WW1-era attacks
Hey now, Mussolini was arguably not *quite* as incompetent as Cadorna.
>>47872101
Oh man, that guy.
>>47872122
> He did something really stupid because I told him to and will probably die because of it.
> What a hero
WWI.webm
>>47872066
Please tell me about all the glorious Italian military successes.
>>47872066
They were moderately successful for a time in Africa against the Brits though, weren't they?
Also, anybody here play Crossfire? It's the first game I'm interested in since leaving 40k several years ago. I'm currently painting up a company of British infantry (holy shit I forgot how long this takes) but I'm concerned the only people I'll be able to play with will be twice my age.
>>47872304
I'm not interested in /int/-tier nationalistic dickwaving and memeswapping, but no serious military historian would ever subscribe to uniformly condemning Italy's performance in WW2. As my friend Rex Trye - author of "Mussolini's Soliders", a definitive study - says, the issue was never the quality of the soldiers, but how they were used. No-one was interested in dying for Greece or in the Libyan wastes; Mussolini's vainglory was the last thing worth fighting for. But when inspired by decent leadership and a worthwhile cause, they fought as hard as any combatant in WW2. Examples include the Decima Flottiglia MAS, the most successful naval special forces unit of WW2; the partisans, who liberated swathes of countryside and fought a long, bitter counterinsurgency; and the
Italian Co-belligerent Army which won the respect of its erstwhile enemies in the US 5th and British 8th Armies. Compton Mackenzie - official historian of the Indian Army in WW2 - ranked the Italian defence of Keren in March 1941 as being on a par with the Japanese defence in Burma.
The popular conception of the Italian military incompetent owes a lot to British comedy of the 70s and 80s, which often recycled the "Captain Bertarelli" trope - the Italian soldier as ice-cream salesman.
Was reading this set of reports on a FB group, sounds like exactly the kind of campaign I'd love to run.
We are currently fighting a WWII Med campaign in our Firday night game club. The campaign is a hypothetical where the French navy is seized by the Italians and integrated into the RM navy. This action was a British effort to intercept a critical Italian convoy bound for North Africa. The British fleet consists of the BBs Pince of Wales, Repulse, Valiant, Revenge, and the Free French Lorrain, escorted by London, Berwick and a dozen destroyers out of Alexandria. The Italian convoy is escorted by the battleships Vittorio Vineto, Strassbourg, Cavour, Provence, Ocean,and Paris with an escort of Goriziz, Primauguet and sveral Capitanis along with a dozen destroyers.
The game started with map movement as both sides hunted each other. British search aircraft kept track of the convoys progress and the British fleet closes in. At 1330 on Dec11 1942 The British destroyer HMS ILex begins the action after bumping into several italian destroyers. The Ilex turns to run, while the main British force turns south to close on the action. The Italian cruiser squadron also closes on the destroyer action.
The Italian cruisers are badly outmatched as Prince of Wales and Repulse open fire at 18,000 yards. An early 14" hit cripples Gorizia and she is unable to escape. London and Berwick close on the burning and crippled Gorizia and a half dozen 8" hits end her misery.
The Italian battlefleet swings into action on a northerly course led by Vinetto and Srassbourg. A long range duel begins with the British attempting to get around the convoy escort. A determined destroyer attack by the Brits force the Italians to turn to the west avoiding the torpedoes, but losing two destroyers in the attack.
Cont.
>>47872780
While Vineto and Strassbourg turn to avoid torpedoes the old French battleships fight on against the British line. Provence is disabled in the action and forced out of line. Her gunnery however pummels Repulse and she too is forced to withdraw. Revenge puts on a gunnery school during the action hitting Ocean with five 15" shells in four salvos. One of the 15" shells plunges through Oceans limited deck armor dealing a lethal blow to the old battleship. She rolls over and sinks with heavy loss of life.
Valiant and the Free French battleship Lorraine are also heavily damaged. Both ships suffer engineering damage and are slowed to 12 Knots. Lorrain has also lost her gun director and "Y" turret. Just as the shattered Italian old battleships break off the action and it appears the convoy will be destroyed, Vineto and Strassbourg rejoin the fight. In a tremedous 30 min duel they hold off the British. Strassbourg firing "A" turret at Revenge and "B" turret under local control on Lorrain manages to slow Revenge to 9 knots forcing her to withdraw. She also knocks out several guns on Lorrain. With only 4 guns under local control and fires as well as engineering damages she joins Revenge in withdrawing. Mean while Vineto quickly knocks Valiant out of line. Valiant had already been hit by 4-13.4" shells and3-12" shells. In the 30 minute action she is hit by no fewer then 10-15" shells. Vineto also is able to penetrate "Y" turret on POW thus knocking out 4 14" guns. She decides to call it a day as the rest of the battleship line withdraws behind destroyer smoke screens.
Further south the Berwick and London, who had seperated from the main force closed on the convoy at high speed. A force of five Italian destroyers from the close escort charge in. They are joined by three Capitani Romani's in thier desperate attack. Two destroyers are sunk during the action but their torpedoes force the British cruisers to turn away.
cont.
>>47872801
Closing at high speed the Capitanis open a blistering fire with their 5.3" guns hitting London 22 times and Berwick 12. The Capitani's also pay the price. Their lightly armored sides are soon peppered by the Britsh force. They limp away to escape behind a smoke screen layed by three Tigre destroyers and the gun fire from the cruiser Primauguet.
The British are determined to get the convoy and again attempt to close. The hero of the hour is the Paris , Having been pounded and crippled by Repulse and POW, she had been limping south toward the convoy. She now takes the British cruisers under fire and scores two hits on London. The Cavour also shows up on the horizon (she had been slowed to 12 knots but her damage control teams put another boiler back on line and returned her to 12 knots. Both cruisers break off action turning back to the north east.
The battle was crippling to both side with the heaviest loss being the Italians with a battleship, heavy cruiser and three destroyers sunk. The British also lost two destroyers, but their major ships are heavily damaged. POW will require 171 days of repair. Valiant the worst hit will require more then 200 days of dry dock time.
We started the action at about 6:15 pm with map movement and finished at about 10:15 pm. We use "In Harms Way" for our campaign and game rules. You can find information on Kickstarter. We are in the last 16 days of the project. We look forward to some of you joining the project. If you have any questions about the rules you can ask them on the Kickstarter page.
>>47872814
Second report they posted:
Action in the Med.
The game clubs action Friday night was a great one. The game was a massive Italian undertaking to supply and reinforce North Africa. The Brits have invaded Libya from Egypt. Their forces broke through Italian lines and were racing for Tobruk only to be stopped by a newly arrived DAK division. The situation is critical for the Italians. Tobruks harbor has also been heavily damaged by allied air attacks.
The Italians devise a plan involving three convoys (over 40 transports and cargo vessels). They plan on transporting a full German division to Benghazi, additional supplies and support units to Tripoli and finally the main effort, 25 ships with supplies and reinforcements for Tobruk. Each convoy has its own close escort of 4 to 6 destroyers, in addition the Tobrok bound force has the old armored cruiser San Giorgio and a light cruiser. For protection against any British interdiction the Italians muster a very powerful surface force. It contains the Battleships Littorio,Vittorio Veneto, Cesare in one force and Jean Bart, Strasbourg and Dunkerque in a second. A third force of the heavy cruisers Fiume and Suffren with the light cruiser Duca Daosta complete the heavy escort. A dozen destroyers including 5 big French Contre Torpilleurs escort the cover force. Scouting is done by a force of Capitani Romani's.
>>47872832
The Brits in Alexandria know about the relief effort and realize they need to stop it. They can muster six battleships, Nelson, Rodney, Queen Elizabeth, and three R's, Ramillies, Revenge and Royal Sovereign. The main battle line is escorted by three of the large light cruisers, Ceylon, Gambia and Jamaica. The Naiad and Phoebe give the force additional anti air capability. Fourteen destroyers round the force out. When word comes that the Italian fleet has left Toranto the British sail.
Several air attacks are launched by the Brits in an effort to attrit the convoys. The German X FliegerKorp takes a break from pounding Malta to supply air cover with the Italian airforce. Several air strikes are broken up with heavy British losses. One flight of attack aircraft, Beaufort's, Blenheim's and lend lease Avengers broke through. They damaged one transort and sunk another.
The Italians reached a point just north of Benghazi and each convoy continued on to their final destination. The Tobruk convoy had a hard rode ahead. The Brits had been able to keep close tabs and closed on the convoy to make contact first thing on the morning of thr third day. Over night they detached the Naiad and Phoebe with 4 destroyers. They were sent west at high speed to close on the convoy from the rear, while the main force closed from the east. The plan worked to perfection. As the sun was coming up, and float planes were being readied reports came in of British ships approaching from the west. As the Italian commander was contemplating this a second report from the Capitani's reported British destroyers closing fast from the east.
>>47872851
The Italians detached their Cruisers and the force of large french destroyers to lay smoke and delay the western British force. The Battleships surged ahead to close on the British eastern force. The Convoy turned to the south east to close on the coast 50 miles away and continue on to Tobruk..
The action began at 0620 hrs when three Capitani's opened fire on four British destroyers( two groups of two 10,000 yds apart.) For fifteen minutes the two groups of ships battle it out. The large British light cruisers show up second forcing the Italian Capitani's to turn away, but they have done their Job. One British Destroyer is sunk and another dead in the water from an engineering hit. The Capitani's know they have been in a fight however and limp away form the bigger British cruisers.
The Squadron of Jean Bart, Strabourg and Dunkerque roar in from the West forcing the British cruisers to recoil. A parting 6" shell however penetrates the deck of Cao Mario one of the Capitani's and the ship blows up as its magazine ignites.
Ramillies and Royal Sovereign come in to save their little brothers. At 18,000 yards they begin to trade broad sides with the Italian battleline. A second British collumn with the Nelson and Rodey in the lead come in to support the two old "R's". The Italian 1st Battle Squadron also arrives only to be forced to turn south and west to avoid torpedoes from the dead in the water British destroyer. Secondary guns quickly sink her.
>>47872869
The Italians are sailing in a southerly or south eaterly course while the Brits are sailing in a west by northwesterly course threating to get by the Italians. The Italians turn 180 degrees disrupting their fire for a time. Both sides have been dishing out punishment during these early manuevers. Nelson and Rodney concentrate on the two Littorio's, while the Q.E. and Revenge fire on Caesar. The old Italian battleship is forced out of line and limps east at 12 knots.
The modern Italian ships prove themselves however absorbing punishment from the two Nelson while they concentrate fire on the R'S and Q.E. Ramilies is first to turn out. A rain of 15" shells from Jean Bart and 13" shells from Strasbourg, have slowed her to 6 knots. With two turrets knocked out and a series of serious fires she turns out of line and is covered by a hasty smoke screen from destryers. Revenge now has two 13" battleships firing at her as the range closes to 12,000 yards. Jean Bart turns her guns on Revenge.
Ramillies takes 12-13" hits in 10 minutes. Her smaller hull and weaker deck armor have left her seriously crippled. She too turns away at 6 knots. The Revenge and Q.E. are now being doubled on while the Littorio keeps the two bigger 16" gunned Nelsons at bay. Revenge soon joins her sisters running for the smoke screens. The Light cruisers who have been adding their annoying 6" gun fire now attract heavy fire from Strasbourg and Dunkerque. Several 13" hits wreck Gambia and the three light cruisers decide to turn away.
Nelson, Rodney and the Q.E. now must face five modern battleships in order to get at the convoy. At this time a collumn of Italian destroyers led by one of the lightly damaged Capitani's loom into site ahead of the British battleline less then 10,000 yards away and closing fast. The British admiral is forced to make the hard decision and turns away. The Q.E. reports heavy damage and states she is unable to continue the action. It is decided to withdraw.
>>47872883
Mean while to the rear of the convoy the British play a game of cat and mouse exchanging long range fire with Italian destroyers laying smoke. Some time around 0800 the Italians have determined that the rear force of British is just the two AA cruisers and some destroyers. The Italian cruisers bust through the smoke and begin to engage. 8" and 6" hits soon convince the Naiad and Phoebe to run for it. Reports of the main battlelines withdrawl and they are to rejoin for the slow trip back to Alexandria ends the action.
The convoy gets through to Tobruk. The Italian Battlefleet has sustained heavy damage to the two Littorio's and the Caesar, but the other battleships are in good shape. The loss of one Capitani to a magazine explosion is the only combat ship lost. Several destroyers report varied amounts of damage.
The British have lost three destroyers, with several others damaged. All their cruisers have been damaged to some degree as well, especially Gambia having been hit by two 13". The main battle line is a mess. All three R's will require months of repair along with the Q.E. What is worse the Italians have resupplied Tobruk and landed another German division.
This action was fought using "In Harms Way". We started gaming at 6:15pm and finished around 10:45pm (a little late for us, but this was a rather complex game with lots of map movement and a divide surface action. There was also a lot of air action. "In Harms Way" is currently on Kickstarter with only two weeks to go. We are looking for many of you to join our campaign
>>47871863
No commanding officer on the Italian side, no wonder they got slaughtered so badly. Or maybe he was so ashamed, that he managed to edit the wiki, so nobody will remember about his fuckup.
>>47872963
> The French commander's name is literally Big Charlie.
>>47872963
>Gros Charles
As in "Fat Charlie"?
>>47873031
As in the King Charlie the Fat.
>>47873025
>>47873031
It's probably how the Italian officer got his revenge.
post boards
>>47873971
tBh Senpai my club terrain is more serviceable than pretty to look at.
>>47873971
![33625e8da6b5eb0d263d82d7aa033513[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lfSvW8i.jpg "33625e8da6b5eb0d263d82d7aa033513[1].jpg")
>>47873031
>Fat Charlie
French win because their co is a demigod. Fiat! FIAT!
I want to gather two historical armies and casual game forever with my bro when we have a few beers and want to wind down without worrying and bookkeeping much, what should i get? 1/72 scale seems good about quality/price. It could be medieval-ancient but any opinion and suggestion is welcome, thanks in advance!
>>47874629
Build two forces of ACW irregulars of some kind and fight patrols vs probing actions/recon?
That actually sounds kind of fun come to think of it.
>>47874629
For casual play with beers, I would actually suggest a slightly larger scale and SAGA.
>>47874629
Something with pirates. I have no systems to suggest but pirates are fun.
Or cowboys, cowboys are also fun.
>>47875462
And what brand/series of miniatures you suggest?
>>47876190
Gripping Beast. Either their plastics or their metals, depending on which you prefer. If you want to go with horses, I would recommend Conquest Games and their plastic Normas as an alternative.
>>47875224
POST MOER
>>47872519
Furthermore, we can add, Italy was a non-industrial, non-developed country trying to fight an Industrial war against rather more effective powers. Let's sum that up with the, bluntly put, criminal disorganization of the higher ups (I can't read about Greece without laughing in despair) and a logistical system that would have sent Satan himself crying in a corner.
"Out of their league" is the best description we can give to the Italian soldier, wasted in a war he had no role for, he was not trained to fight, and without the proper equipment. This does not avoid us saying that the vast majority of the italian political and military class was a bunch of morons and deserved to be shot. Poor, poor fucks. Mussolini deserved what he got.
>>47876592
http://regiamarina.net/detail_text_with_list.asp?nid=35&lid=1&cid=7
Doesn't help that British propaganda during the war and that fact that they were victors meant that they heavily played down or outright ignored Italian successes when they could.
>>47876592
>The Fucile Mitragliatore Breda modello 30 was the standard light machine gun of the Royal Italian Army during World War II.
>The Breda 30 was rather unusual for a light machine gun. It was fed from a fixed magazine attached to the right side of the weapon and was loaded using brass or steel 20-round stripper clips. If the magazine or its hinge/latch were damaged the weapon became unusable. It also fired from a closed bolt along with using blowback for its action. The blowback operation was violent, and often resulted in poor primary extraction. During primary extraction, the initial very small rearward movement of the hot expanded cartridge case away from the chamber's walls must be powerful but very slow, if an automatic weapon is to be reliable. Separated cases resulting in jamming of the weapon beyond field clearing, were usually the consequence of poor primary extraction. Breda 30 also inherently lacked good primary extraction in its design and thus utilized a small lubrication device that oiled each cartridge as it entered the chamber. With the dust and sand of the deserts of North Africa, came a combination of premature wear and jamming.
>As an automatic weapon's chamber and barrel heat up with prolonged automatic fire, the resulting excessive temperature can cause a chambered round to cook off or ignite without intent of the gunner. As a result of firing from a closed bolt, the Breda 30 could not fully take advantage of the cooling properties of air circulation like an open bolt weapon would, thus making cooked off rounds a realistic hazard. The disastrous results could lead to potential injuries to or even the death of the gunner.
Anyone feels generous enough tonight/day/whatever it is wherever you are to buy it for a poorfag?
https://www.bundlestars.com/en/bundle/graviteam-tactics-bundle
>>47877851
same
>>47877851
>94% off
WHAT THE FUUUU
>>47877851
everyone buy this
>>47877851
>>47878021
> You save £108.02 (96%)
>>47878286
>>47878640
Yeah, I know...still, not even 6 euros on my bank acc.
Feels bad, man.
>>47878653
If you like anon, you can have the keys to the stuff I already had on Steam. This being:
> The base Operation Star game
> Operation Hooper
> Shield of the Prophet
> Zhalanashkol 1969
>>47878693
I would love you eternally for that. If you'd be so kind to send it to tamas872[at]freemail[dot]hu, I promise I'll name my first child after you.
>>47878744
sent
>>47878799
Thanks - did not arrive yet, hopefully it did not get eaten by the mail client. In case it would, I'll make a 10 minute email address.
Much appreciated again.
>>47878845
If it doesn't show up let me know and I can resend.
>>47878286
Doooo eeeet
>>47878878
Got it, activating now.
Thank you very much, you are a scholar and gentleman!
>>47878882
POST MORE
>>47878902
Go crush some commies/nazis, anon.
>>47878937
>>47878902
>>47878845
/hwg/ is truly my favourite general, you people are so kind to each other
>>47879167
im rock hard
>>47879281
One day, DutchAnon, I'm going to find out where you live and turn up at your door with my 6mm Napoleonics and force you to play me.
Consider this your formal warning.
>>47872101
A true genius.
>>47879527
> So, it is-a decided, we attack-a along the Isonzo river!
> But general! We've-a tried this so a-many times!
> You-a know what-a they say, Lieutenant! If at-a first you don't-a succeed-a!
> Mama mia!
>pervitin is meth
jesus christ the germans gave their soldiers fucking meth?
>>47880071
Yes.
>>47880138
Well I guess they wouldnt live long enough to have the lasting issues associated with it
>>47879527
>>47879608
Funny thing is, some shitty places north from here he's still praised as a hero.
>>47880228
WHERE? I mean, Cadorna as a butcher is common knowledge. Hell, they taught that to me when I was in elementary school.
Or you mean that the Austrians regard him as a hero? That would make sense.
why is sloped armour good?
>>47880895
It increases the effective thickness of the armor.
>>47880997
??????
>>47872122
They named a light cruiser subclass after him just before WWII. I would have figured it would have been an ill-favored namesake, but that particular ship survived, while the entire preceding subclass and it's fellow classmate were all sank. Having seen that clip now, I guess the ship inherited his own stupid, unflinching luck.
>>47881009
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour
>>47879167
>>47878882
Reminds me of one of the battles in late 1944/early 1945 described in The Forgotten Soldier.
Grossdeutchland attacked some kind of small factory complex and everything was burning
>>47880071
Japanese too. That's how they had the prewar marching records where they covered 100 miles in 3 days or whatever the actual numbers we're.
Panzerschokolade is meth too
>>47881009
Geometry, son.
>>47881651
I thought it just made shots bounce
Why are wehraboos so common, nearly any ww2 game I see either /tg/ or /v/ most people will pick germans
>>47882465
To be fair the Germans did have snappy uniforms, so they're appealing to me at least from a modelling perspective.
>>47882555
Its just infuriating looking up tutorials for graviteam tactics and the guy pretty much doesnt even mention the russians.
>>47882720
so they dont bounce at all, weird
>>47882052>>47882732
Sometimes they do bounce or otherwise deform the projectile and deflect some of the energy. Seriously, read the article. It explains all of this.
>>47882732
They'll deflect a bit, if a projectile hits a surface perpendicularly then all the force is in the x direction. If it hits at an angle then there will be a component of the force in the y direction as well, which will lessen the force in the x direction.
>>47882465
Germans were just so far ahead of other nations in terms of tactics and equipment.
They were the first ones to fire HEAT rounds from their tanks, in 1942.
And their tanks look based as fuck which doesn't help other nations
>>47878286
But I don't have a Steam account, or a PC or any time to play /v/. I saw a discount and thought "OOH! Cheap minis."
>not
>>47880071
I believe the Americans did too. Back then people didnt realize how bad meth was for you, they viewed it kind of like we'd view a redbull now.
Hitler took the damn things daily, hence part of the reason he lost his damn mind toward the end
>>47882465
in no particular order
>tigers
>snappy uniforms
>first to use many modern weapons, equipment and tactics
>people like playing the "bad guy"
>in order to have a fairly even playerbase, you need 3 germans for every Brit/American/Slav.
>Germans fought almost everywhere except the pacific, so its easy to have models for any campaign/situation
>tanks come in colors besides "green" and "whitewash over green"
>every branch had very different uniforms, making painting more varied
>Lots of secret weapons and bizarre tech compared to other nations like the first combat jets, guided missiles, and night vision
>armies usually require less models than most, making it cheaper, especially as everyone and their mom sells Germans
>>47886141
I always thought tigers were ugly as fuck. Literally a big murder box.
Panthers are nice looking, but Panzer IIIs are my favorite. Even pz.IIs looks pretty damn cute
The puma is pretty fucking tidy. And the Jagpdanther looks sleek af. StugIIIs of course have their charm too.
>>47883981
I personally prefer the aesthetics of many other nations tanks.
>>47886141
I feel like the only one who thinks the german uniforms look dopey, dont like them at all
Onna Bugeisha bump
>>47886044
Amphetamine abuse started in WW2 as a result of every army giving their men uppers to stay awake for longer. A bunch of war vets came home with dependencies that were easily abused throughout the 50's, using easily obtainable prescriptions. In particular, there are accounts of Australians in Singapore staying awake for 4-5 days on meth because there was no need for food and you went for ages.
>>47887358
Whats it like being a man with no taste?I kid, why do you think that?
As WW2 uniforms go I'm a big fan of the jersey, shorts, keffiyeh and monster beard combo as popularized by the LRDG. Pretty dashing in a piratical way.
That being said I consider the panzerjacke to be an exceptional piece of military tailoring; a perfect balance of form and function. Clean lines, no loose buttons to catch, black to hide the numerous stains a tanker got splattered with, and totally iconic. No wonder Verhoeven ripped it off for the uniforms in Starship Troopers.
>>47889473
It just looks kinda like prison uniforms with weird helmets to me
![Bersaglieri02[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NdXt2Rz.jpg "Bersaglieri02[1].jpg")
Germans weren't styling enough to pull off plumes of feathers and get away with it.
>>47889566
I will concede that I've always liked their tanker uniforms though, because as you've said, they've got nice clean lines and look quite smart.
>>47889566
>weird helmets
WW2 had a few of those
>>47889597
>as you've said
Different anon, anon. Personally I wouldn't describe German uniforms as 'dopey' but I do think there are some equally attractive yet underated ones in other forces, especially Norway, France and Italy.
>>47889665
I think Fedayeen Sadam get the award for worst dressed
>>47890551
>Fedayeen Sadam
They're like real life Cobra troopers (and probably as competent as them)
>>47890574
>>47890551
Tell that the german police who just got some new riot gear
>>47889665
i persnally love russian uniforms
>>47890551
>>47890574
>>47890577
Simply glorious.
>>47890593
Kinda reminds me of the police gear from Fifth Element. More in the lacking a neck department than anything specific about the kit.
>>47890593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4&ab_channel=reptileman117
>>47890577
Are these conversions or actual minis?
>>47890593
Looks a leeetle bit like the USN helmet from WW2 (which of course inspired the Rebel helmet designs in Star Wars)
>>47890649
Actual minis from Elheim
https://www.elhiem.co.uk/ourshop/cat_817270-Saddam-Fedayeen.html
>>47883981
The biggest flub the Germans made was banning tanks from having barrels that extended over the hull. The experiences in 1940 and 41 completely changed German armor design philosophy. Thankfully Stalin had killed pretty much everyone involved in the joint exercises with Germany, which led to the amusing situation of two groups working to invent radical new ideas and then one of them just "forgetting" and having those ideas used against them.
![Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1985-117-02A,_Hilfskreuzer_Kormoran[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RuBh268.jpg "Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1985-117-02A,_Hilfskreuzer_Kormoran[1].jpg")
>>47886141
Technically there were German commerce raiders like the Kormoran operating in the Pacific.
>>47886141
Its more like 4 german players for every british, 5 for every american, 3 for every soviet, 20 for every japanese
>>47886141
>>tanks come in colors besides "green" and "whitewash over green"
Other countries had camo on their tanks too though.
But you are right with your points anyway.
>>47890755
as it should be faggot
>>47888578
Waifu done right.
>>47890593
Oooooh the comedic possibilities.
First of all, they look like Dana Carvey from Master of Disguise - are they the secutiry for the Turtle Club?
Second of all, they are protected against vampire bites. I bet those neckguards are bite-resistant.
Third of all, I like how their helmet are basically half of a wok. They are simple and easy to produce. You can also make some nice kebab in there!
>>47890755
Well, I have multiple German armies (Waffen SS, Wehrmacht, Fallschirmjager, Afrikakorps), British (8th army, Commandos, 11th Armoured, 51st Infantry, ANZAC for Burma), US (armoured/infantry, marines), Japanese (Japanese), and possibly some others too like Italian Folgore division. Basically you can bring whatever army against me, and you'll find an enemy for them.
F-15C Eagle versus MiG-23/25: Iraq 1991 (Osprey Duel 72)
Designed following the relatively poor performance of America's multi-role fighters during the Vietnam War, the F-15 Eagle was conceived as a dedicated air superiority fighter. But, having trained for 15 years in the Eagle it wasn't Eastern Bloc operated MiGs that the F-15 eventually came up against, but pilots of Saddam Hussein's Iraqi airforce. This book analyses the combat between the American and Soviet 'Cold War fighters' in a balanced manner, examining how the technical abilities of the aircraft combined with the different levels of training available to opposing pilots and ground crews allowed the F-15s to destroy the Iraqi offensive abilities within weeks of the First Gulf War starting. Packed with artwork, illustrations and photographs, this book places the reader in the cockpit during one of the last major dogfighting air wars in modern history.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/v7hdnv3z739830f/Osprey+-+DUE+072+-+F-15C+Eagle+vs+MiG-23+%26+25.pdf
>>47891161
post ANZAC
>>47891577
Oh woops, I misread that.
>>47876239
Can't only pic I took. I'll play another game later this week and take some more epecially for, my you dearest anon.
>>47890652
>rebels
>>47892517
10/10
>>47891594
Kek
>>47890595
Uniform was designed by one of Saddam's psychotic kids
>>47892588
>tfw no Ba'athist Iraq
Folks, any idea for PAVN heavy weapons in 1:72, that's preferably compatible with the old Esci figs? The IMEX sets have some, but I don't really want to pay for the whole box for a single machine gun or two mortars. Plus I'm not sure how the rest of the figures would match the uniforms of the PAVN anyways, even tho some SMG armed dudes would be nice.
>>47894079
I think RAFM makes a DSHK. For a SPG9, you'll either need to make your own out of a bit of plastic tube or Elhiem makes a loose one. Not sure where you'd get crew for it though.
Not aware of a mortar, maybe check the Britania or SHQ ranges.
>>47894079
thats not ww2
>>47894293
Well, the Vietnam War is definitely not WW2, thank you very much.
Meant the Korean war sets, forgot to mention.
>>47894279
Thanks for the tip, similar crew would be fine too. My only problem is that metal figures tend to be heroic compared to the Esci dudes.
>>47894331
Elhiem is truescale. You should also be able to get a DSHk from them as well.
>>47894390
Thanks. Such a shame there's only one Vietnamese box in 1:72 with only four different kind of weapons (AK-47, SKS, RPD, RPG).
>>47894331
RAFM and Elheim mix well with the plastic 1/72 guys. Platoon 20 and Britania are chubbier. Not sure about SHQ but their WW2 range generally fits well with plastic 1/72 figs
>>47894653
I have the same exact pic, but thanks.
Well, I've found a semi-solution...I have lots of Maxims from the Esci Russians, and it was used by the Vietnamese. With some minor modifications for the crew, I could employ them as Vietnamese machine guns.
Alternatively, I have some Type 92 heavy machine guns from the Waterloo1815 Jap kit, tho I couldn't find any sources that it was used ther (as it was a really shitty machine gun anyways), and sadly haven't found any particularly similar MGs used there.
Underfire Miniatutes also makes 20mm stuff, they have at least one Vietnam set.
>>47895004
I think I read they used the Type 92. Definitely used Japanese Rifles and SMGs, though probably more against the French than the Americans. I would imagine 20 years of jungle conditions would be pretty hard on those weapons. Did the Chinese ever copy the Type 92?
You can make coolie hats by cutting circle from plasticard using a hole punch or die followed by hitting with a pin punch or nail set to dome up the center
>>47885536
>I saw a discount and thought "OOH! Cheap minis."
Same ;_;
![Mohammad_Yaqub_Khan_with_British_officers_in_May_of_1879[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MoBTADP.jpg "Mohammad_Yaqub_Khan_with_British_officers_in_May_of_1879[1].jpg")
Looking to get some Victorian Brits to complement Perry Afghans; should I go with Perry or Empress?
>>47895522
Empress only do Zulu War, not Anglo-Afghan, (there are some differences in uniform).
Also Perry have plastics, which is hard to argue with.
I'm looking for a medieval skirmish game to mess around with. Already tried Lion Rampant and didn't like it much.
>>47895622I prefer metals to plastics
Is that weird?
>>47895950You disgust me.
>>47896115
bit harsh mate
>>47896226: (
>>47895950
It's very common in historical wargaming to prefer metals, from what I've observed, particularly amongst older players who started wargaming with historicals, and back in the days when historical plastics meant subpar 1/72nd kits. They tend also to prefer figures that rank up easily and don't require much assembly to figs that have more dynamic poses and customizability
Being one of the younger players who grew up on warhammer in the early 2000s, I'm used to and prefer plastics because it's what I grew up with, it's generally much cheaper, and I like kitbashing, converting, and getting the most out of plastic's flexibility
I see a similar pattern with the unending scale debate here, I grew up with 28mm and it's probably what I will always like, but many people here are obsessed with microscopic, unpaintable bits of flash and the rift between the two camps shall ne'er be healed
>>47871645
>Battlegroup
>https://mega.nz/#F!SolyxarJ!GUg6zWBStfznr6BvYedghQ
Any chance of ever seeing Barbarossa and Blitzkrieg?
>>47895180
Thanks.
>>47895871
Lords&Servants, but I'd recommend Warhammer Ancient Battles too with unit entries from the Armies of Chivalry.
>>47896348
>obsessed with microscopic, unpaintable bits of flash
No need to be a cunt about something you've clearly never seen in person
>>47895950
I agree. Bit harder to convert, but I rarely converting things. I prefer the weight of metal; an errant bump of the table or cat visit doesn't jostle units out of formation.
[spolier]I want 25mm colonials to make a comeback[/spoiler]
>>47896348
>I grew up with 28mm and it's probably what I will always like, but many people here are obsessed with microscopic, unpaintable bits of flash and the rift between the two camps shall ne'er be healed
Way to seem reasonable then out yourself as a cunt, bro.
You get passive aggressive shit like that towards 28mm all the time here but god forbid someone returns the favor.
t. not him
>>47896908
reputation of 28mm was forever ruined by GW
>>47896908
probably one of the few threads on this board where non 28mm might actually outnumber 28mm.
My favored scale is 1:72, tho I have many differently scaled miniatures too, and I understand the drawbacks and advantages of every scale over the others.
1:72 is like a childhood passion for me, plus no other scales as easily accessible here as that.
>>47897011
I have 6mm, 10mm, and 28mm.
There is no need for hate, they all do a job. What I do dislike is when people try to do Waterloo (or any other major full army engagement) in 28mm on boards that really can't handle it.
I like all scales but I do like it when ranges/terrain etc aren't out of scale
>>47896908
why so bitter
>>47897066
I think that's where the 28mm hate come from...much more of an issue in fantasy/scifi games, but the 28mm Uber alles types who refuse to consider any other scales give a lot of other people a bad name
>>47892517
He obviously meant these guys, whose helmets are clearly taken from the design of the USN one.
>>47897767
It was just an excuse to post that picture anon.
Israeli Soldier vs Syrian Soldier: Golan Heights 19671973 (Osprey Combat 18)
Israel seized the strategically critical Golan Heights from Syria during the 1967 Six Day War in an audacious and determined operation, yet when the Yom Kippur War broke out the Israeli military were exposed by the effectiveness of the newly confident and dangerous Syrian army. In the Golan only luck, herculean Israeli efforts and tactical misjudgements by the Syrians were to allow the Israelis to maintain control. In this book, three pivotal encounters in the Golan are assessed, supported by artwork, maps and photographs, tracking how both sides' forces evolved over the period.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/f8bec7ga3o8vlhv/Osprey+-+CBT+018+-+Israeli+Soldier+vs+Syrian+Soldier+1967-73.pdf
>>47896348
Yeah, metal all the way. I was there pre-rogue trader space marine. Grew up with Grenadier minis. This over scaled 28mm plastic bullshit can go take a running jump for all I care.
>be me
>collects microscopic, unpaintable bits of flash at 6mm
>>47895950
I like both, and sometimes resin.
They all have their uses. Metal figures do have a certain psychological edge though as they feel more important/valuable due to the weight.
>>47898449
That's the thing. Psychologically a handful of lead/pewter minis feels more valuable than the same in plastic.
Worth their weight in gold, but not.
I know some anons have been waiting for this one
Donnybrook: Skirmish Rules for 1660-1760 by Harrison & Hilton (League of Augsburg)
Donnybrook is a fast and fun skirmish game which is easy to pick up and full of period flavour. The book is 110 pages of rich colour with 186 beautiful photographs, maps, original artwork, seven scenarios, example game in comic strip format, period primer for numerous conflicts, faction guides/force builder, points system, force roster sheet template, and comes with a satin finish full colour A4 QRS.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9o59f6dbrqjuv9j/Donnybrook.pdf
>>47895871
Saga maybe?
Can someone recommend Age of Sail games? (bonus points for links)
>>47901542
Wooden ships and iron men is an old standard. Some other promising looking ones can all be found in the naval mf in the op.
>>47896543
>>47896789
I knew there would be butthurt, almost rewrote it, then thought fuck it, I'm not gonna censor myself
Oh welp
>>47902036
so you're just admitting that your true self is to be an uptight cunt?
>>47898383
I get the appeal of "smaller than 28" minis, I even have a lot of 1/72 (gave up painting it because it's painful) and a small flames of war force but stuff that's below 10mm I just can't fathom, especially non-vehicles that small, more power to you guys who can
Didn't mean to decomfyify the thread
>>47902194
Don'T worry, it'll blow over.
>>47901542
If you're just starting, I recommend these:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/78j3jiqcqnloabs/WH+Historical+-+Trafalgar.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/4a3kl4it30tdjrv/Blood%2C+Bilge+and+Iron+Balls.pdf
If you're feeling a little more advanced, then refer to:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/su6tabp05c10cfo/Fire+As+She+Bears+2.1.rar
Wooden Ships & Iron Men (as recommended above) is solid, but very dated now.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o1oncig0g29idd6/Wooden+Ships+%26+Iron+Men.rar
>Whipped up a massive hex map of Vietnam and surrounding areas
>No idea what to do with it
>Whipped up a simple map wargame to go with it, where units are abstracted until they come to contact, whereupon each player chooses the unit type to use for that single battle
>US and VS players have separate lists of unit types. US having air cavalry and mechanised infantry, air strikes etc, VC having booby traps, tunneled infantry, air defense, camouflaged infantry etc.
>Different unit types make for different battles
>Air recon vs booby traps for example does nothing
>Anti Armor infantry vs Armor makes for a very bad time for the armor
Not too sure how I'm going to handle losses, but ideally units can be wiped out if the battle goes badly, otherwise each side will track "overall losses" that will effect its overall morale.
Now I just have to write up the 90 different battle types, depending on units (10 different US units to choose from, times 9 different VC units to choose from) Many will be "no effect" but I still have to go through and write them all out.
1 page of main rules, ~4 pages of different battle types!
Wish me luck
>>47904697
I wish you luck.
Erm, another 'nam question that I couldn't find an answer to regardless of where I try to find an answer to.
Where did the platoon HQ travel? Did they have their own M113, or sit in one of the squads'?
After a long time of dicking around with paper rectangles and digital mockups, I want to make an actual army and play for real. I've read and tested several of the games listed in the OP, but I still have some questions.
1. What's a popular ancient or medieval game? I'm drawn to the simplicity of Warmaster, but I've heard nobody plays it.
2. Basically the same question but for Napoleonics. Is Black Powder the game of choice around here?
3. What material do you guys use for stands?
4. For someone who wants to field a full army but doesn't want to spend a lot of time painting is a smaller scale better? I've painted some Warhammer guys, and didn't really like it that much. I figure it would be easier to slap together an army with more models but less detail. Is that true?
>>47906582
1. Warhammer Ancient Battles is still around and alive. Other than that, Hail Caesar, Clash of Empires, maybe some others too. Kings of War could work too, it's pretty simple, and for 1st ed, you can find historical lists on An Hour of Wolves.
2. Black Powder is not the best choice for a first Napoleonic game. I'd recommend Rank&File, Lasalle or Blucher.
3. Renedra bases or laser-cut MDF
4. Yeah, sure. You can get a really good result by just blocking the colors - en masse it looks really effective. If you haven't decided on the scale itself, and want to keep it small, I'd recommend either 6mm from Baccus, or 10mm Pendraken.
>>47906582
1. Impetus and Hail Caesar and DBA get a lot of play down at my local club.
2. Black Powder definitely isn't the game of choice around here. I'd say Lasall or Blucher are the most common in this thread.
3. Laser cut MDF.
4. For a full army the smaller scales are better whether you really like painting or not. As the above poster says, for 6mm Baccus have a very complete range. For 10mm I agree Pendraken have the best sculpts but a lot of their ranges are incomplete so other ranges (MM etc.) are useful as well.
>>47895871
isn't there a medieval version of 5 core/5 men?
>>47897011
>1:72 is like a childhood passion for me
While the majority of my miniatures here are 28mm i have probably 5k 1:72 plastics (mostly airfix and revell) at my parents house. They are, together with tons of tanks and other stuff, stored away somewhere and i never bothered to go and get them.. i really should do that some day.
>>47898275
Very nice, thanks.
>>47898449
Thats why i like having my character/hq models in metal.
>>47895950
I got started in tabletop playing with metals, Warmachine being one of the games in particular. There's nothing quite like the feeling of holding a figure that weighs near a pound.
>>47906984
You should defo do it IMHO. Lots of new stuffs for 1:72 came out recently to fill out your collection. They are great fun to paint too.
>>47907039
Geesh, Warmachine...after about half a dozen people commissioned me to paint Warmachine armies, I couldn't take it much longer. That was the best way to convince me to never start WarmaHordes. All those fucking rivets and bolts man...
>>47907055
>They are great fun to paint too.
Nah. I hated painting them back in the day. It would be fun though, to compare the 1:72 minis/tanks i painted in the age of 10-15 with the stuff i paint nowadays 15+ years later. I'll try to remember to look for my stuff when i visit them next time.
>>47907097
I hated painting them when I started too, but somehow they grew on me.
You can always depend on me to unload unwanted 1:72.
>>47905750
Look in the Ambush Valley supplement for Force on Force (in the OP), there's a lot of that kind of info in there
This scenario has a separate M113 for the HQ though don't know if that's accurate or not
http://donoghmccarthy.blogspot.com/2012/02/task-force-shoemaker-scenarios.html
>>47907172
I use that, but sadly Armored Infantry is not included, only USMC, South Vietnamese, Heli-infantry and dog scouts.
From what I know the "standard" platoon was the same, tho each of the M113s had an M60, so their firepower was much greater. My guess is an M113 for the HQ too - they wouldn't really have any space left in the other three.
Which sadly means I need two of them instead of one. Ah well.
>>47907198
...or I could mount my HQ in an ACAV too.
>>47907198
Have you looked through the OP Vietnam_War Mediafire folder? There's some great ospreys
pic is from "US Army in the Vietnam war 1965 - 73"
Looks like a HQ for a mechanized rifle company had 2 of their own M113s, while a tank company had some pretty meaty hardware, tanks and M113s.
>>47907473
Ah, thanks. I think I've stumbled upon these charts, but I'm hopelessly unable to decypher these kind of stuffs.
>>47904697
Finished the first draft, now just need to playtest.
Even some random opposition tables at the end for solo play.
The map is printable in 9 A4 pages, printer-friendly Black and White available here:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/3a3tosxz7b0oa/The_War_in_Vietnam
Any miniatures can be used, I'll probably use individually based 1/72 because I have heaps of them. Tokens or Risk figures could easily be used too. As long as two sides are distinguishable the specific unit type doesn't matter.
To the anon from the other day who was making a game with effective rifle ranges at 50m all I can say is you've done no research whatsoever considering most ww2 rifles had effective firing ranges of up to 500 metres. 500, not 50.
>>47907796
Try to hit something the size of a man at 500m using iron sights, while taking cover and being shot at, or while advancing. You'll find you dont really become "effective" until you're closer than 100m, and that within 50m is more of a "guaranteed kill" area where you cant miss, even on the move.
My research is based on actually using firearms and knowing that what they call an effective range on the wikipedia page doesn't really equate to "always going to kill with every shot in combat conditions" which is the kind of damage our system tracks (you can't inflict casualties on a unit of infantry unless you can kill ~12 men within 6 seconds - the kind of damage usually left to machine guns, HE rounds or concentrated rifle fire at close range)
Each base of infantry is around 25 men in our system, and the unit is either "50% casualties" or wiped out, so we have to be very careful about what can cause that kind of damage. AP rounds for example can never cause that kind of damage in 6 seconds. They can kill 1 man, they would never kill 12 in one hit. Which is why early war 6pdrs are unable to damage infantry, as they only had AT rounds.
The exact range of a rifle isn't given in our system, so no one's going to know what their effective range is, and of course casualties will be taken outside of effective range, just not enough to bring a unit below 50%.
>>47907917
I dont like your system at all
>>47877851
Already had some of these on my account, so here they are. Star is the base game. PNG so bots don't snatch them up.
>>47907917
>>47907796
I remember that various militaries actually did studies about combat ranges in WW2 with various weapons systems.
I wouldn´t know where to find them, but getting the results of some of those studies would be really interesting in this discussion.
>>47907917
So a unit could stand in the open at 300m in front of an enemy infantry platoon for 5 turns without risking any significant casualties at all? I get abstraction and trying to streamline game mechanics, but I feel like you've overdone it a tad.
>>47907917
>My research is based on actually using firearms and knowing that what they call an effective range on the wikipedia page doesn't really equate to "always going to kill with every shot in combat conditions" which is the kind of damage our system tracks (you can't inflict casualties on a unit of infantry unless you can kill ~12 men within 6 seconds - the kind of damage usually left to machine guns, HE rounds or concentrated rifle fire at close range)
but the issue with this is, if you cant even roll dice to try you cant kill anyone.
So given 20 rounds of shooting at 60 meters, in your game 0 people will die.
It's fucking trash mate, most games that let you shoot do so under the assumption that you will likely miss, that's why you roll dice.
>>47907917
This seems to be making the mistake of only kills mattering, not injuring, suppression, general degradation of morale..
>>47907917
>cant kill 12 men in 6 seconds
>can kill 10
>kill 10 men every 6 seconds
>unit never dies
great system
>>47907966
Dont judge something until you play it. The system is designed to represent large battles with multiple platoons, armor, artillery and air strike / air defense elements.
Infantry dont last very long as it is, medium tanks and various HE guns (I'm looking at you Flak88!) tend to shred them so you have to be pretty careful about how you use them. They're either hugging the ground, hiding in cover, or cautiously advancing with armor or artillery support.
I only posted the rough ranges as a point of interest last thread, but its interesting to see people seem to think 500m is quite easy to kill someone with an open sights rifle. Next time you're outside, get your friend to stand 500m away, then you run from cover to cover and imagine trying to hit him with a rifle on the move. 500m is quite a distance. I mean thats half a kilometre... 100m is much more comfortable for open sights, and 50m is the distance where you really cant miss.
>>47908081
you know they didnt hipfire right?
>>47907917
wow this is bad
>>47907796
effective range =/= EFFECTIVE range
sure if you have a dude with a sharpshooter table up with a nice pad, maybe a bipod and a scope, you're gonna hit something out to 500
sure if you have like a platoon skirmish line set up with dudes just going ham with rifles at 200m you're sure to score hits
but if you're under fire, advancing, falling back, taking cover, being shelled, being tanked, taking cover behind friendly tanks, getting command sizzled, in full battle rattle, smoked, throwing smokes, hoping you don't die today, hoping the guy next to you dies, oh god the guy next to you did die, where's my bandolier, is that 1sgt, 1sgt just got shot, okay time to shoot the enemy
then your chances aren't as good
i speak from speculation because i haven't been deployed, but i can tell you that it's hard to hit man sized targets when advancing at speed or trying to work cohesively with the rest of your unit.
it's why most (modern warfighting) games simulate the four Fs: Find, Fix, Flank, Fuck. first you spot the fuckers, then you pin them down with fire, then you move in or flank them, then you fuck them. much more reasonable than just tracking casualties through dudes dead.
>>47907986
this is another issue that presents itself with wargame design, since eventually at this range it's going to boil down to individual luck or individual sharpshooting skill; see veterancy.
i wouldn't know how to fix this, but identifying this issue as a real one is pretty important. add secondary rules for fighting outside of your effective range that bases itself on volume of fire rather than actual casualty infliction capacity?
>>47908081
>its interesting to see people seem to think 500m is quite easy to kill someone with an open sights rifle.
No.
People are arguing that it is possible to hit someone, or otherwise affect a unit, from 500 meters away.
Which it is.
>>47908007
You should see how quickly men die, even with this system. Its pretty scary really. Hundreds and hundreds of men die every battle...
Also its "50% (of original size) casualties" so there's no half life whittling down. An infantry unit is either full strength, 50% damaged, or wiped out and removed.
>>47907986
>>47907990
The exact range of the rifles aren't given. Its just 12". This could be 50m, it could be 100m, it could be lucky shots at 200 or 300m.
What's important is the range of a rifle is longer than a thrown grenade, and shorter range than a HMG or AT rifle being fired by someone taking their time in cover.
>>47907994
Only severe kills and injury matter yes, when you're dealing with half a platoon of men, casualties only start to matter after its lost about half its men, and even then in our game it doesn't actually lose any effectiveness, its just closer to being wiped out. Units can be pinned when they take casualties so morale is still an element.
>>47908134
I guess it's not that effective to argue with those anons (or anon, as I can imagine that our dearly beloved shitposter is back), since they are so hell-bent on "that rules are shit, you should feel shit, tell your dog to feel shit, and your neighbours too" that he'll hardly ever change his mind.
>>47908150
so grenades range is 1 inch?
>>47908094
you know the firer didnt have a dedicated bench set up with a calm breeze and 0 incoming fire right?
500m is roughly 5 American football fields. Thats a pretty tricky shot for iron sights, even prone on a range with ideal conditions at a stationary target. Now imagine that target is moving, ducking, zig zagging, and his friends are dropping mortars and HMG fire on you to keep your head down. Suppressing fire is still a thing at that range for MG's, but your average rifleman is not going to take the time to line up that kind of shot, let alone hit it. Theres a reason everyone went to assault rifles like the M16 and AK47, because past 300 meters the average rifleman wont even shoot at all because they feel its a waste of ammo.
The only place fire like that would ever really happen would be the Eastern front anyways, most places would have closer ranges due to hills, terrain, and other things blocking sight.
While 50 meters is perhaps a bit too short, the rough idea and theory behind what he is basing his rules on is sound.
>>47908135
Well it seems we have a different opinion of "effective". In my books effective is pretty much every shot hitting and killing an enemy. Beyond 100m while under fire this isn't really the case with an open sights rifle, if you're ever been hunting with rifle like that you'd know this, and hunting you have a LOT more time to line up shots, and no one is shooting at you. Even then, 100m with an open sights rifle is pushing it. 50m is much more comfortable and guarantees a hit.
I'd expect snipers with scopes and lots of time to be making every shot at 300m, even 500m, but not your average infantry man on the move.
>>47908179
I get your point I just think having what is almost point blank fire be the max range is stupid. Whats the point of having dice if you base your range cap on guaranteed hitting.
>>47908165
Thrown grenades are 6", and thats also how far an infantry unit can move on the run, so about 10-20m
Here's the post from last thread with our games ranges >>47864818
They're scaled so you can still play on a 6' X 4' table and not have every weapon as infinite range (we tried that to start with, was quickly changed to encourage movement)
The rough ranges are in this post >>47869505
>>47908182
>Well it seems we have a different opinion of "effective". In my books effective is pretty much every shot hitting and killing an enemy.
Clearly that is the issue. Because apart from you I'm pretty sure that isn't how anyone defines effective range. As far as a quick google search reveals definitions are usually between 50% to "a reasonable chance".
Effective doesn't mean certain.
>>47907917
>>47908161
Theres 6 different IPs on this post, so someone is doubling up at least.
>>47908135
i think the issue here is that everyone has a different opinion on what effective really should mean. possible doesn't mean it happens all that often and has an impact on a game of that scale.
sure, noone's saying that kind of shot is impossible if you have the right environment and an alright optic, but it's kind of beyond the scope of the game system to actually track that kind of stuff unless it's a really specific situation.
>>47908223
i was under the impression it was possible to do damage beyond the "effective" range, but at a lesser efficiency based on range, which feels completely feasible, no?
>>47908226
>12" is rifle range
>6" is grenade
I will never ever understand
>>47908226
>those nonsensical range differences
what
>>47908249
>everyone has a different opinion on what effective really should mean
No, the issue is that you don't understand what it means.
>>47908259
6" is about 10m
12" is about 100m
I guess the range system is kind of exponential in a way. There's no need to get too excited, the system has been carefully playtested over 5 years and the ranges are very solid.
The main thing I'm furrowing my brows over at the moment is whether infantry should be able to move and fire rocket launchers (I think they should ... you always see this in films, they send 1 guy up with a rocket launcher to deal with an incoming tank - usually from the side)
The other issue I've been looking at is HEAT charges from infantry rocket launchers. From what I've read they could penetrate any tank on the battlefield by the end of the war, some german HEAT charges being able to penetrate over 200mm.
This would effectively make infantry MUCH more powerful against heavy tanks, being able to move and fire and completely ignore heavy armor in late war, while ignoring up to 80mm in mid war.
>>47908308
>inconsistent range
this is what I dont understand and you havent explained it
>>47908308
>6" is about 10m
>12" is about 100m
>range system is kind of exponential in a way
I am now very confused
>>47908182
> In my books effective is pretty much every shot hitting and killing an enemy.
I think this is the issue most anons have with your reasoning. Because by that very reasoning, the moment an enemy unit entered the effective range of another unit of equal strength, they should be basically wiped out within moments. I'd probably define effective range as "the range at which fire directed on to the target will have a considerable 'effect' upon them either through suppression, casualties or both". Taking a half platoon of infantry, they would probably be able to bring effective fire onto an enemy platoon pretty reasonably out to say 300m, considering the presence of 2ish LMGs and/or a couple ARs supplementing the average riflemen in the unit. This doesn't mean they'd certainly be able to do, but I'd certainly let them have a chance to roll for it. Any further is pretty difficult considering combat conditions but could certainly be considered especially if the unit continues firing upon the same target over time and starts to range in.
>>47908302
are we seriously debating whether or not it's easy to hit someone from closer than it is from further away? 50m is as far as i'd take my bets if i didn't have my buddies putting down fire at the exact same target with me, and this is with modern guns.
we're taught not to engage individual targets above 50m unless we're ambushing them, in such a huge advantage that no matter what we do we'll achieve fire superiority immediately, or the enemy is routing or falling back in such a matter where they can't fix us before we fuck their shit up.
this is with modern guns.
https://videos.funker530.com/bitmotive/public/funker530/v1.0/videos/funker530/9a38334b2bc574f3c5391b09ef24ab1e/854x480.mp4
hajjis are a terrible example for obvious reason, but it'll show a point about CQB.
>>47908308
Hitting is what is the problem with these weapons.
>>47908335
now is when i forget to point out that my reasoning has been under the impression that the rules changed beyond 50m, and that combat beyond 50m was viable.
>>47908335
>individual targets
he's talking about groups of 25 men shooting at 25 men though and in his game 50m is the max range that can happen at
>>47908351
see
>>47908349
if mr magicman gameanon thinks combat beyond 50m isn't viable on 4F scale, magicman gameanon is a fucking retard.
>>47908335
>are we seriously debating whether or not it's easy to hit someone from closer than it is from further away?
No, I'm pointing out that your definition of effective range seems to have become confused with "almost certain to hit" range.
The fact that men did in fact shoot at each other from ranges exceeding 50 metres and managed to achieve at least some effect on the enemy. It was actually quite common it turns out.
>>47908357
his rules are based around effective range (eg the only time units would ever fire) is when they can kill 12 men in 6 seconds
>>47908378
what the shit
i retract all previous statements implying that his system wasn't junk
>>47908321
Interestingly you don't see people confused about FoW which basically does the same thing.
>>47908316
The ranges have been squeezed so they work on a standard table, and so you can hide outside of the range of tank guns if you have to. We've never really included the metre ranges for weapons, it was just an approximation from last thread. All you need to know is grenades have a shorter range than rifles, and rifles have a shorter range than HMGs, all of which have a shorter range than a 2pdr / pak38 equivalent.
Infantry can only move 6" in our system and thats running flat out for 6 seconds, so quite a distance. In order to fire rifles on the move they can only move up to 3".
An average tank moves 5", but can double move up to 10"
A fast light vehicle like a willies can move 7" or 14" flat out.
When you take these movement speeds into account, the relatively short range of infantry weapons should hopefully make a bit more sense. Essentially you can throw a grenade as far as you can run in 6 seconds. And you can still hit someone with a rifle up to double that distance away, if not much further
>>47908395
FoW is kinda trash though.
>tankparkinglotmeme
>>47908335
>50m is as far as i'd take my bets if i didn't have my buddies putting down fire at the exact same target with me, and this is with modern guns.
>we're taught not to engage individual targets above 50m unless we're ambushing them, in such a huge advantage that no matter what we do we'll achieve fire superiority immediately, or the enemy is routing or falling back in such a matter where they can't fix us before we fuck their shit up.
Thank you. This guy obviously knows what he's talking about.
So there is this article with "unpublished ww2 photos" made by a german officer during the war now given to the press by his daughter after his death. Among the pics is pic related. According to the article these are Italians on guard duty in Ukraine in 43. WTF is the guy on the left wearing on his head?
>>47908408
>rifles can oonly fire twice the distance of a grenade throw.
pls
>>47908327
>the moment an enemy unit entered the effective range of another unit of equal strength, they should be basically wiped out within moments
Thats pretty much what happens :^
infantry get wrecked in matters of seconds when they get close to each other, or if they start taking damage from flak88s or artillery or flamethrowers. Its not a forgiving game for infantry, but this is WW2 after all. High Explosive vs flesh, flesh just isn't all that resilient.
>>47908426
pirate hat duh
>>47908454
yes that happens if you get close, but in anons game this is the only time firing happens at all
>>47908409
Ah right...some folks I know did a "mega battle" with a couple thousand points, but on a standard sized table. It looked fucking trash. Like...one itsy-bitsy artillery shell in the middle and boom goes the dynamite.
>>47908454
this is true, but combat happens outside of 50m, i'd almost say more frequently outside of 50m than within. *outside of MOUT obviously
but 50m in mout doesn't mean instadeath because >haha cover literally everywhere
>>47908395
FoW has rifle teams with 16 inch range in a smaller scale.
It does do telescoping range, but not the the batshit extent of these rules.
>>47908465
I mean rifles have a shorter range than a pak 38. That seems reasonable right? There isn't really an alternative, we're not going to increase rifle range so it becomes the equal of a HMG or pak38 / 2dpr.
Mass casualties only happen when you get close, and mass casualties are the only thing we track, being played at platoon level with hundreds of men involved in each battle (last battle had 200 men and it was only a tiny 50 point playtest - Some battles have up to 600 men...)
I understand that rifles can be effective beyond 100m, especially when you're not under fire and in a good stable position, but in our system its usually HMGs that do the majority of the damage anyway, from 300m to 400m away. There would be no reason to make rifles more effective, as infantry die fast enough as it is!
