So who else really got their hopes up with the initial battle, but then got really disappointed really fast when it went full fantasy combat?
Now if you were the GM of the GoT campaign, how would you have resolved it instead. It worked great up to the piles and the wall. What could replace that phase?
I'd have had the entire group, on both sides, just shit themselves uncontrollably for the entire rest of the episode.
Like, people would be actually drowning in shit.
>>47866814
As opposed to drowning in zombies like everyone'll be in E10 when the Night's King goes waltzing through that battlefield.
>>47866790
Would have Sansa raped and flayed tbqhwy
>>47866790
>full fantasy
Elaborate. I believe the battle was pretty good, although I had hoped they were going to do a little roller coaster climb to the battle and start it just as the episode ended, to be honest.
>>47870930
>corpses falling in piles
>those piles becoming a tactical feature
>Bolton infantry literally encircling opposition with a shield wall
>John literally drowning in corpses
In an anime battle this would be fine. But this is Game of Thrones. Literally!
Yeah it was badly done.
Plus there was around 300 people or so shown.
Bit lack luster for a battle with 9000 combatants.
>Sansa tells Jon about the Knights of the Vale
>CIA brings friends, even if it takes a few days of waiting to see whether or not they actually show up
>Boltons get intimidated and hole up in Winterfell
>wildlings fashion for Wun Wun makeshift armor, shield, and bludgeon (S4E9 has giants using bows and complex mechanisms to help break a fortified door, meaning giants are intelligent and can use complex tools)
>wildlings send in Wun Wun to completely batter down the gates
>wildlings and Knights of the Vale pour into Winterfell and seize it in an instant
>nearly 0% casualties for Jon's side
Why did they not do this?
ALTERNATIVELY:
>the wildlings bring out Wun Wun's massive, ridiculously long-range bow from S4E9
>they have Wun Wun snipe Ramsay from afar, with Ramsay having absolutely no counter to this
It seems that the entire Bastardbowl could have been avoided by better communication from Sansa and much better usage of Wun Wun, instead of sending the giant in completely unarmored and unarmed.
>>47870966
wasent the infantry charge distance long as hell?
>>47866790
GoT is now nothing but disappointment.
It's disappointment upon disappointment with the occasional little gem in it that tries to tell you that it's worth digging through the bland samey trash to find more such gems but you quickly realize it really isn't.
There is no reward for getting invested in a character as most of the likable ones are dead now.
The stupid ones and Saturday morning cartoon villain ones are still around despite other more entertaining/likable characters having been killed off for far less reason.
Despite being hype as fuck starting it back in the start of season 1 I don't think I shall bother with season 5.
I don't even follow the series but it got me curious.
What happened? Did ramsay die? Did jon die (again)?
Did someone of note die at all?
>>47871155
Ramsey died after the battle and the beyond badass giant , Wun Wun, died. Beyond that no one of import died.
>>47871155Ramsay was eaten by his own dogs. Before that he murdered Rickon to taunt John (successfully). Wun Wun is dead, as is most of the Wildlings. The only army left standing at Winterfell is the Knights of the Vale.
>>47871146
I swear!When Arya was gutstabbed for stupidity as a cliffhanger and then came back all well again next episode for having laid down for a day and gotten a bandage and soup, I was about ready to put the series creators' heads on spikes atop the walls.
Shit's really gone downhill. Barely holding on for Daeny Sue, and I'm not sure how much further that will be able to go. I had really been hoping forCatelyn to hang Brienne.
>>47871146
>There is no reward for getting invested in a character as most of the likable ones are dead now.
would you rather have all the main characters escape certain death time upon time?
>>47871448
No but I would like some consistency.
Rob does something stupid, dies. Ned does something stupid, dies. No Dick does something stupid, dies. King of the North does something stupid, dies.
Asbestos Dragon Bitch stupids her way across half a continent, survives and rules a kingdom.
Ramsey "I wish I had a moustache to twiddle" Bolton does stupid and it took him ages to finally die.
Lannister Bitch is still alive despite heaping on the stupid faster than she does cheap wine.
Where can one still find quality battles?
King's Landing was alright, until it wasn't.
The Hobbit? That was laughable cgi spam.
Warcraft? I hear they trimmed a third away before release.
Do I have to resort to pre-80s monumental film for my mass combat fix?
>>47866790
I thought the opening cavalry charge and ensuing melee were quite good. The rest of the Fight was a bit meh. Fairly predictable if aesthetically pleasing. Still it's the closest thing to an old-school medieval battle that we're gonna get.
>>47874532
The opening pitch of the battle this episode was good. Chaotic brawling typical of two armies without centralized and compartmentalized leadership mauling the fuck out of each other.
IF you can ignore the obvious tactical mistakes Ramsay made with his sheer overpowering statistical advantages, such as not flanking Davos and the archers with his cavalry, not driving his cavalry right down the wildling's spearless center, and firing arrows into his own men in a melee when 3/4ths of the combatants are his.
Also ignoring the obvious mistakes Jon made, such as not arming Wun Wun, not digging trenches (like they said they would), where the fuck was Ghost? Ghost could have snuck up and mauled the fuck out of Ramsay when he was looking at the battle from the hill.
Sansa should have said the Knights of the Vale were coming, but she didn't because she's categorically a dumb bitch who wallows in self-pity.
The battle could have been much more realistic, but they wanted carnage, and they delivered well on that front. The opening clash was brutal, demonstrating that cavalry charges aren't like pushing a spear into enemy formations, but more of a battering ram.
Then they immediately followed it up with the Knights of the Vale flowing through the testudo formation without even slowing down.
It was a mixed bag of good and bad, but I was entertained.
>>47871446
Brienne lives after that in the 4th book though, it all just happens off-screen (or off page).
The only explanation that makes sense is that Sansa wanted Jon to die along with his men. Those who died were loyal to Jon, not her. She wanted Rickon to die because it sets herself up as Queen in the North.
Sansa is a sociopath who cares for no one but herself. She even goaded Jon the night before, putting more pressure on him than there already was. It was bad for Jon to lose his cool, but he is running out of family. Seeing your little brother die after the first time you've seen him in years is hard.
Sansa? Doesn't fucking care. She doesn't even seem to care about his body being buried in the crypts, only looking towards her revenge against Ramsay.
She is not a Stark, and she is not Queen in the North. She doesn't even care about the North.
>>47876445
Also, if Rickon wasn't a dumb shit, he could have turned towards Ramsay and every time Ramsay shot an arrow he could just stop moving and shift a few feet in a random direction.
Or Jon could have directed him like 'Red Light, Green Light' and just told him to freeze whenever Ramsay fired. It's also silly how ridiculously skilled Ramsay is portrayed as, hitting 100+ yard shots with a longbow in wind, with direct center of mass hits.
Same as that scene when Theon was fleeing through the woods and was captured by those soldiers and Ramsay was landing noscopes at a rate of like an arrow a second by himself.
>>47876606
Both Rickon and Jon were a tad emotional at that point, so making that mistake may make sense. More on Jon's part than Rickon's in my mind. Rickon should have seen this coming a mile away while walking about and have been able to think of something. For Jon is was far more shock.
>>47871117
he didnt even have a tree trunk, like wtf where they thinking.
>>47871448
Maybe have character death mean something instead of the series being the literary equivalent to a shock jock station?
>>47872030
Everyone has different amounts of shit they can get away with. Part of the reason that Cersei is such a stupid bitch sometimes is precisely because she has gotten away with so much stupid shit in her life.
>>47877310
Cersei has barely been holding on mentally for 2 seasons. Her shit blew up big time in King's Landing. And I for one am sick of seeing her dread her trial, get on with it already. Let's see Flea Bottom burn.
>>47871074
There were way more then 300.
You were too good for this series, Ramsay.
>>47866790
I just saw this today. And I've never had such divided opinions:
>Strategy
Pants-on-head retarded fails to describe how utterly thoughtless the tactics and plot twists were past the halfway point. Hiding behind literal piles of bodies, somehow managing to trap the entire opposing army against those piles of dead bodies. Once they had them trapped, they barely moved and very clearly stalled. Deus ex machina Petyr coming to save the day. "We can just wait behind the walls, we won lol! It's not like we'll need more men, or that we'll run out of resources, and that we don't have any more friends in the fucking world." In short, I've never seen such a horrendous mess, and I'm ashamed to see it in such a budgeted show.
>First half of the battle and cinematography
B-E-A-Utiful.
The intense action which is filmed in long shots where the horses flying past feel like they have an incredible impact. People stumbling about constantly, the camera panning around in a masterful way. 10/10, clearly someone more inspired filming the thing, than writing the horrible mess. For the segment where Jon is unable to get up, and getting buried in the pile of bodies the filming technique really tries to emphasize on his disorientation, and leaves us wondering what at all is actually going on, for a mere few moments that are made to feel painfully long.
I also love how Ramsay seemingly tempted Jon into running across the halfway point, guessing that if he pulled his string after having lulled him halfway into a mistake, he'd go all the way. Which he did. It's honestly a shame Jon's mistake there didn't get him gutted, but oh well, his plot armor was pretty obvious in that battle anyway.
>>47874532
Directors cut of Troy and ultimate cut of Alexander deliver good battles. Troy has inaccurate armor but delivers believable fighting and shield pushing that happened in real life while Alexander only has inaccuracies in what one of the battles looked like.
>>47877629
You expressed my feelings perfectly.
>>47866790
I'd quit the game and find better players.
No, seriously. If every fucking backstory they hand me is literally an attempt to out do the other players in tragedy and special snowflakety i'd have said "fuck all of you." And kicked their asses out of my home. However, they somehow got me to GM by some miracle and now they're stomping around an otherwise solid setting and all i'm hearing is "oh! I'm so unique and have such a tragic backstory!"
"NOOO! I'M the most unique yet tragic person!"
"NO! I AM!"
"NO ME!"
"Oh yeah? Well by the end of this my story will be so tragic you're all gonna cry!"
"Nuh uh!"
Literal garbage.
People complain about the tactics but what they don't understand is that it was intentionally bad to show how Jon and Ramsey suck compared to Sansa's strategic mind and common sense
>>47877896
It's not down to actual strategic mind vs. unstrategic mind. Its literally retarded. I'd honestly expect better planning from an actual retard.
>>47877986
to be fair, I'd say that outside a few notable lords and generals, the majority of medieval combat was likely just 2 forces of men slamming together until the other broke or died.
>>47877896
>>47877986
Not to mention that Ramsay's strategy, which had absolutely no right to net him anything but a miserable defeat actually led him to victory. Shooting your own men to build a wall out of their corpses is not only impossible, it's nonviable in terms of maintaining your superior numbers in a pitched battle.
The only reason Jon won, is due to Petyr's EXTREMELY convenient timing. And he didn't have any kind of Maiar magic to guide him like I'm sure gandalf and his gang had.
>>47870966
Is this bait? This was a pretty accurate depiction of a real battle.
This is bait.
>>47872030
>Lannister Bitch is still alive despite heaping on the stupid faster than she does cheap wine.
Come now, Anon. Don't talk such nonsense. I'm pretty sure the wine is quite expensive.
>>47879777
You would be hard pressed to find more than two medieval battles where you'd have a side with enough men to make actual corpse piles on the field big enough to be tactically important features. You could have fields of unsure footing from say 40 corpses but thats AFTER a major fight and a side losing that many in one spot has already lost if they're not outright dead.
>>47876445
>testudo formation
They were encircling the Northmen and the Wildlings, and were attacked from behind by heavy knights on horseback. They were rolled up exactly as easily as they would have been in real life.
>>47872030
Thats because she's a woman. Same reason they made whats her face an adult and turned a consensual sex scene into rape and stockholm syndrome. You can't make them out to be bad people as that would be sexist. You can make them stupid as all hell if you want but unless that shit works out relatively well for them you're misogynistic. The show director even said so and even he hates it.
>>47871141
at least 12 inches
>>47880277
Are you sure? It seems smaller....
Meereen was awful as usual and I couldn't take the battle seriously because a) Sansa STILL didn't tell Jon about the Vale even though she gave up the MUH PRIDE and wrote a letter to Littlefinger, and she knew he'd answer and b) Wun Wun could've won the whole battle himself. Give him a tree trunk to swing and some hastily crafted wooden armor. Given him logs to throw. On of those greatbows. They literally had a fucking superweapon. I haven't even watched half of the episodes because I don't care that much and after this I'm gonna just read summaries. And of course people are gaga over the episode.
>>47866790
>>47870930
The full fantasy combat was awful.
Even worse, we got to see the dragons for like 5 minutes, torching one ship, but then we have to suffer through 20 minutes of kit harrington grunting through an action scene directed by someone who apparently has a boner for Saving Private Ryan Omaha beach scene AND Lord of the rings "armour is paper" at the same time.
>Guy gets stabbed straight through his helmet.
>Cavalry charge without lances
>Lol I've watched so much Braveheart, shoot our own guuuuyyyssss
>Everyone has, for some reason, composite horse archery bows despite just being foot archers.
>Crazy Asian Cinema gimmick tactics "surround them with shiiiieeeellds!"
>Ramsay must be twice as much of an asshole as normal in case someone forgot he's the bad guy.
>For no reason at all Sansa keeps the chance of reinforcements a secret. Jesus fuck, does she think John will be more pissed that she talked to Littlefinger than he'll be that she let him go into battle and get all his guys killed before the Notfrench shows up and saves the day?
And so on and so forth until you throw up in your mouth.
WARNING: All below is spoilers.
Am I the only one who thought it weird that for 4 seasons they took many episodes and ordeals to go from point A to B, but on the last season, people just started using skyrim levels of fast travel?
>Littlefinger appear at molestown just to talk to sansa, heads back.
>Knights of the vale somehow make all the way across lannister infested rivelands and moat caitlin unnoticed to show up just in time for battle despite being called what, 2 days earlier?
>They actually visited several houses all across the north, one in a fucking island, during 1 episode, and it's strongly implied by the rest of the timeline that happened in a couple days
>Daenerys khalasar and her dragon make it to meeren like, a couple days at best after she burns their khals alive.
>A guy is building a fleet of a thousand ships, which should take years, apparently in time to CHASE someone.
They really fucked the timescale.
>>47880518
>Wun Wun
Fuck yes, this. Just gather up some spare shield and make a fucking apron for him, give him a log to wave around, but no, he goes into battle WITH HIS FUCKING HANDS.
HOW does he even have fingers left if his fighting technique consists of reaching for men with swords and picking them up.
Also, what happened to Ramsay's Twenty Good Men?
>>47880080
>>47879777
>>47870966
They weren't a pile of corpses.
It was two hills on the battlefield that people died on.
If you look closely in the scene you can see the dark grass behind the bodies.
>>47880660
Or why didn't he throw men when he waded into the tide of battle? Or horses? Throw either of those at a shield wall and it'll break. He swung around a tree trunk like it was nothing, he could chuck a man at others with enough force to kill everyone involved. He could've done so much damage even unarmed but no, he just fights like a normal - sized soldier.
>>47880645
>They really fucked the timescale.
So bad. I actually LIKE that they're starting to fast forward a bit so that we don't get episodes that are purely just moving pieces on the board before stuff happens. But WHY are they not consistent across plotlines? Like, just fastforward the entire thing a few months now and then, why not, we are adults, we don't need to see everything in real time to understand that it happened.
But noooo, lets just teleport everyone everywhere and just wave a magic wand and make ships appear.
>>47880645
Littlefinger used his little finger to teleport the Vale Knights like he does himself
Wun Wun had a club in hard home
Why the fuck didn't he have one here? Why the fuck didn't he have anything?
Wouldn't a giant smashing huge holes in taht shield wall with a fucking tree be pretty goddamn terrifying? Even more terrifying than getting his hand repeatedly jabbed with spears when he picked them up 3one at a time?
>>47878151
It's fun to see you know so little about medieval combat but still took your time to enlighten us assuming we know even less. You are wrong though, most medieval battles involved some degree of strategy. The most common was the hammer and anvil, using infantry to pin a guy's lines in place, circling with cavalry and slamming them from behind. Pincer movements, and all to the center were also common movements. I doubt you find 1 actual battle report (that was not what an english man wrote about that the french did) in which two sides just slam together thoughtlessly.
Also, Battle of Pavia.
>>47880735
Littlefinger confirmed for wizard. He and sam gonna battle for the ultimate prize: A book full of wizardry.
>>47878151
>The majority of medieval...
Yes, lets make sweeping statements about more than half a millennium that included everything from Vikings to Cannon, that will totally not make you sound like a complete idiot.
>>47866790
The stampede and them shoving each other was pretty realistic though
>>47880922
>>47880735
Little Finger is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to
>>47866790
The problem with the show is that it's becoming more and more of an unironic heroic narrative. I get the feeling in the books that Ramsay would just be killed in the midst of the battle - Nothing directly related to Jon Snow - or he'll flee, a loose end, out of the game for good.
The writers of the show aren't GRR Martin, so they have no real idea what made his work popular in the first place. They have really stupid stuff like Sam stealing Heartseeker, the family sword, and suffering no consequences for it. Are they not aware that his father would have bitchslapped him to death with his cock for that?
Same for Arya. In Book 6, she'll be one of the Faceless Men: It's implied that before you really embrace their philosophy, there's a period of 'acting out' that's accounted for and expected. Sort of like an assassin taking revenge for his family...Then realizing the emptiness of life and returning to the fold with all his issues worked out. But here, Arya is a renegade who is inexplicably not killed by the killer sent after her!
A lot of this shit is just dumb.
>>47876558
>Sansa is a sociopath who cares for no one but herself.
That would be awesome, but as shown by Arya's stabbing and Umber's ambiguous declaration of loyalty, if something on the show looks like it's settiing up something subtle and interesting, it's probably just bad writing.
>>47877629
Pretty much this. The carnage and chaos of battle were great. I loved the sequence of Jon climbing out of the mass of living and dead bodies as if he were drowning in a sea of men. The horse stuff was incredible. But it could have been so much better so easily...
>Have the dragon sequence as the finale to the previous episode; it was totally wasted by being overshadowed by the superior main battle.
>Have Littlefinger's forces show up before the battle. Deus Ex sucks. Jon made enough mistakes to justify almost losing with equal forces. Doesn't affect the plot except to create some cheap 'suspense'.
>Have Jon's force driven back against their own trenches and stakes rather than a literal hill of corpses which pile up for no fucking reason.
>Make Ramsey's forces advance and wrap around the enemy in a vaguely believable fashion instead of that stupid performance-art piece which required the opposing force to just sit there and let themselves be surrounded.
>Give some reason for why Wun-wun didn't have a weapon and wasn't being supported to smash a hole in the shield-wall. Maybe have him get stuck in the eye and go berserk or just killed much earlier.
>Have Jon's force at least try to use some of their magical assets. They have the red woman at least and it seems there should be a few wargs in the wildlings.
>Actually show some of Ramsey's army being less-than-keen to fight for him, or betraying him when it's clear that he is going to lose.
>Can't believe Sansa missed the opportunity to tell Ramsay 'all that will remain of you will be dog-shit'.
>>47881323
This, it's fanfic levels now.
It's both funny and sad that you can see exactly where the fatman's writing stops and D&D's starts
>>47871146
The worst part for me is Danaerys.
All she does is succeed with minimal effort because she has dragons, and over 70% of the scenes in Slaver's Bay that don't involve her are her subordinates talking about how awesome she is and how great a queen she'll make.
I'm only watching this for the Hound and the White Walkers at this point.
>>47880645
>They really fucked the timescale.
Surely it's just that the last couple of episodes covered a lot of time? Everyone did a few weeks of travelling. Littlefinger moved south and then north again with his forces. Jon and Sansa had to visit lots of northern houses. Dothraki had to ride across Essos. Jamie and Brienne travel across westeros and meet at riverrun. Yara and Reek travel around westeros and get to mereen.
Only inconsistent bit is where it seems Arya's plot was only a couple of days in the same shows, but I don't think that really matters because she isn't connected to the other characters. If Littlefinger had gone south and come back in the time it took Jon and Sansa to march directly to winterfell it would be different (and even then possibly justified by littlefinger having good horses while Jon had to move a mostly-infantry force through snow).
>>47881532
>Yara and Reek travel around westeros and get to mereen.
That's not a few weeks, that's like half a year
>>47881530
Please see
>>47880155
The writers CAN'T make her fail or seem less. She's a "pioneer for women everywhere." If they tried to write her as anything less they'd burn the script and fire the writers then hired new ones who understand the lay of the land. The director even states multiple times he's not "allowed" to deviate from this and how he hates that. But anything for a paycheck, right...?
>>47881650
While you make a good point, that doesn't make her character any less unsufferable
>>47881570
> that square coastline on Westeros
Map-bounded continents. Not even once.
>>47881570
Eh, looks like they travelled about three times the distance the other characters did. That doesn't seem inconceivable with good ships. Or maybe the Mereen plot is currently a few weeks ahead of the north at the moment.
>>47881713
Yeah, a single ship.
They've got the entirety of the iron fleet (200 ships) with them
>>47876742
Wun Wun took levels as a monk?
>>47880645
They didn't say how much time passed and they didn't really need to desu
>GoT Fans
>Arguing about realism
Not
Even
Once
>>47871117
They might not have the tools or materials to spare for Wun Wun armor but I agree he should've had a big fucking log. That spear wall was bullshit too I don't see how he couldn't have ripped through it. Why not just grab the spears and start poking.
>>47881570
>Getting that near to Valyria
That's it anon, you don't get to steer the ship anymore.
>>47871117
it's a shame they killed off wunwun, he could've stopped the white walkers with valarian steel boots with dragonglass sticking out of them.
>>47881323
Wait, so having not read the books, is Jon less of a Mary Sue in them?
Tbh, I think most people complaining that characters are Mary Sues ignore where they suffer consequences (not super well-written ones, but best example being Dany, who is pretty much canon shit af at governing anything, and who has lost a lot because of it - she just personally doesn't care, cuz dragon people are crazy, I guess, so ppl tend not to talk about that) but like, Jon Snow literally just magic'd his way through a fucking literal wall of death, chased a bunch of horsemen on foot, and blocked three arrows from near-point blank range, after being LITERALLY resurrected, which is all a lil more .... heroic than I expected from a show where "all men must die". Like fucker shoulda died a lot in this episode alone, let alone this show.
>>47881976
Showfag here, what's wrong with Valyria?
>>47882416
A Magical apocalypse happen there, no one that gets near it either by land or sea returns.
>>47882416
Magical Pompeii
>>47882416
Bookfag here, read the books.
>>47882483
Unless you're Euron Crowseye. Then you can do fucking anything.
>>47882527
God damn right, that valyrian steel armor most be pimping as fuck.
>>47882516
You're not my real dad
>>47882483
>>47882492
Neat.
>>47882577
Him doing whatever he does next is now the thing I'm most excited for in the books. What kind of nightmarish apocalypse does he have planned for Old Town.
>>47882617
My guess is that it will be a mini valyrian right across the bay. Orhe will be calling the original builders of the dark foundations beneath the Hightower.
White walkers is lame
They should be wight walkers
>>47882727
>>47882617
I actually think he's going to sacrifice both the fleets in an attempt to ascend to godhood.
Consider
>collecting priests like some sort of pokemon
>uses ironic punishment on them (Red priest burned with fire, Aeron chained in water, warlocks forced to eat their own, I don't know about the septons)
>one of his men mentions that the reason the gods are pleased is because they've been fed due to all the fighting
>Aeron's dreams
>>47882830
Don't forget all the symbolism about him making other people pray when he comes around. Both people shitting their pants at his pirate fleet, and his little brother begging to not get raped.
Also, realize that the religions with the most magical power are the ones that kill people the most.
>>47866790
Y'know, watching that battle, I thought
>Yang Wen-Li would've let the Bolton's surround him with their pike and shield, then pulled back over the wall of corpses, flank the pikemen, and win the battle without the magical teleporting sky knights of Arryn.
I realize Sansa was basically playing the long game so that she could take over the North as the trueborn daughter of Eddard Stark and deny Jon Snow the seat of Winterfell, but it felt really fucking contrived when Baelish just showed up on his horse with knights out the ass.
Same with Daenerys last episode, Theon this episode, and Brienne and Jaime during the Riverrun plot. Everyone can just magically teleport themselves all over the fucking world now that it's in the hands of Hollywood screenwriters.
>>47882830
>I don't know about the septons
Cut in seven pieces.
But you have to remember that Aeron is a self-deluded zealot with a little brain damage from back the Greyjoy's Rebellion. He is likely to unleash some magical catastrophe as a weapon against the Redwyne and Hightower fleets. But godhood not likely.
I did a shitty map of my own. Looks like Littlefinger did do some pretty fast travelling between episodes 4 and 5 if we assume each episode is happening more-or-less simultaneously for everyone. He didn't have to move especially fast to get his troops though; they were at Moat Cailin, not that far from Winterfell.
Likewise Yara does go a bit speedy going from the Iron Islands to Volantis; in roughly the time it takes Brienne to go from the wall to Riverrun and the Dothraki to get to Mereen, she covers about three times the distance.
>>47882898
>deny Jon Snow the seat of Winterfell
The sad part is that Jon wouldn't willing take it or betray her for it.
>>47882942
Yeah, that's why I said attempt.
I think he'll fuck it up because he's insane and wake up the great other/bring down the wall/ drown half of Westeros by mistake
>>47881891
>setting has some magic stuff
>that means none of the usual rules apply and any old derpery goes
>lol im smart xD
Sad.
>>47882949
I think its more reasonable to believe that Vale army sail from gulltown or the northern vale across the three sisters and disembarked behind Moat Cailin.
>>47880108
Except the director interview after the episode explicitly described the encirclement as an homagea specific moment in the Carthaginian War where the Carthaginian encirclement of the roman armies resulted in the annhilation of the roman troops down to the last man.
It was, by all comparison, a testudo formation.
>HBO:GO bruh
The only thing that really griped me outside of the giant mountains of dead bodies which I got over pretty quick, was how come Jon couldn't arrange to get any fucking spears? No stakes placed to deter a heavy cavalry charged after being taunted about it, but no spears for your untrained wildling group is pretty silly.
The lack of reaction to a fucking giant and not having a "Giant fucks everyone up" part is sad, also how did Davos get so far up so quickly without realizing they'd been in encircled? Why didnt he push up the archers to fire at the resting company that were going to advance? The actual battle tactics beyond that I get, the Romans did something similar to Boudica where they crushed the Britons against those wagons didnt they? That part was fine, but if Davos didn't sprint up the field he could have just smashed into the rear of that pike wall and opened a hole for Jon and Co. to escape.
Concerning the Knights of the Vale, the only hting I can think of is Sansa had requested Littlefinger's help way earlier when it became apparent Jon wasn't going to get the proper support they needed. What's more bizarre is where were the Boltons at Moat Cailin? Wouldn't he be aware of the Vale's attack/declaration of war? I can understand a forced march to help, it didn't look like that many cavalry in the grand scheme but it was really stupid that it wasn't conveyed that Ramsay NEEDED to push the attack because of the Knights of the Vale situation, or that nobody mentioned the declaration of war/loss of Moat Cailin.
>>47881570
Just earlier in S5 when Arya sees Mace Tyrell and his guards arrive in Braavos from King's Landing, he said the voyage was like 2-3 weeks iirc. Which means that distance is like 18 weeks or so. So yeah, a long ass time.
>>47882415
> Wait, so having not read the books, is Jon less of a Mary Sue in them?
Yes.
>>47882416
The show talks about it in the episode where Tyrion and Jorah are boating through the ruins.
Basically, Valyria was founded around 14 volcanoes, from which they harvested their Valyrian steel from the deep caves and mined riches making them the most powerful citystate.
Then one day, ALL of the 14 volcanoes erupted at once and buttfucked Valyria back into the stone age. They still continuously and spontaneously erupt to this day, 400 years later. The sea around Valyria is feared by sailors as great bubbling of sulfur from the underwater volcanoes can randomly blow a fishing boat up, or a steady release of sulfur gas can suffocate an entire crew which misnavigates the surrounding water.
>>47883820
>A great bubbling of sulfur can blow a fishing boat up, or suffocate an entire crew
>>47881891
>magic exist in the setting so everything can be retarded
>what is internal consistency
This is my least favourite meme.
>>47882415
>Mary Sue
Mary Sue's are liked by all, amazing at everything they do, and never suffer bad consequences.
Jon was hated by his men, failed at almost everything he attempted and only survived by luck, and also got stabbed to death.
>>47885319
>Failed at almost everything
>Successfully took over command of the Night's Watch, slew the traitors, accomplished swordsman, defended Castle Black (not that its saying much), recouped forces and led successful assault to retake Winterfell.
He pretty much only failed at the Wildling treaty but I think the biggest mark against him is his two major battles have been victories because some Westeros cavalry show up to bail him out twice.
>All this bemoaning how shitty the show has gotten
Well its all we have now, unless you are retarded enough to legitimately believe the turtle-fucker will ever release another book, much less two
>>47885319
People not surviving by luck is the cornerstone of GoT's philosophy. If you don't play the game there isn't some magic force of karma or luck to keep you alive, you have to earn your right to live in the world. That's why characters who are stupid fucking idiots but don't end up getting chopped off piss off the fans. Dany is an insufferable cunt (with a shit actor) but she's still alive and fine because she's wearing plot armor which goes against the whole idea of the series. I wouldn't say Jon has had any particularly thick plot armor throughout the series but he has in this new season and especially in last night's episode.
>>47885599
What? Ramsay is fueled by blind wild luck. The Lannisters were too.
>>47885630
And now Ramsay is dead and the Lannister's house is falling apart. The second Ramsay killed his old man and stopped even trying to play it smart he doomed himself.
>>47885630
The Lannisters were fueled by Tywin Lannister being the best living statesman left in the Seven Kingdoms. After his death, shit has been falling apart for them.
>>47880722
i thought it was going to happen too. mostly since they were camped in the same fucking spot.
>>47885319
I mean, nah though, because the stabbing got retconned by Red God magic, survived by luck is a pretty big case of YMMV (I mean, any Mary Sue's plot armor can be called "luck" w/ half-assed effort, so one person's luck is another person's plot armor, esp. w/ this writing).... what's the thing he failed? I guess the Wildling treaty but I mean he currently leads both the remainder of the Wildlings and the remainder of the Night's Watch so not really sure what he lost since army size seems not to matter much in the most recent episode.
The only reason people hate him is basically cuz he's too rad, really. I mean, there's a good reason in the most recent episodes (he refuses to consult Sansa) but that's only happening because of a forced "BAD COMMUNICATION" thing, so one could equally just blame Sansa for continually going "listen to me" and then not actually saying what she knows (in other words, just blame the writers making conflict where none exists, lol).
>>47880722
Bolton forces are stretched from the Dreadfort to Winterfell they're probably dead either at Moat Cailin or in one of those fleshpiles.
>>47885478
There is something here about Rob being the commander and Jon being the fighter or similar.
Why are the Daenerys parts always the worst part of the episode?
>>47881530
she has sort of a harry potter reason for being the chosen one, she succeeds because she made the best choice you can do, something that even Joffery did to an extent
She surrounds herself with loyal capable people that have an interest in seeing her succeed, sir Barriston was the greatest kings guard of the era, and he wanted to have a good Targerien in power, grey worm, a soldier trained from an early age has fanatic levels of loyalty to her, same thing with the book character Strong Belwas.
>>47886197
because she doesn't do anything at all and you already know everything is going to work out in her favor no matter what.
So why the hell were Ramsey's men alright with firing on their own guys?
>>47886234
because dey wer der ebul bad guyz, of course.
>>47886234
Something along the lines of "We can afford losing some of our guys to this numerically inferior force of Wildlings."
>littlefinger somehow gets his army from the vale to winterfell in a day, a few days a most if you are generous
Assuming this map's scale is accurate, and assuming the army was just chilling at the bloody gate, they still would have had to cross literally 1000 miles, assuming they took the most direct path.
Basically, Littlefinger is a wizard and didn't tell anybody.
>>47886234
>>47886280
>>47886327
but why not use the karstarks or one of the other houses he didn't trust men, instead of his own cavalry? if he did i didn't catch it.
>>47886368
thats why he's going to win the game of thrones
>>47885599
Man all this talk of thrones and such has got me hankering to make a game now...
That being said what makes up the foundations of Game of Thrones in it's themes for the most part?
I have in my head something like this.
>Everyone is out for power.
>You can only relay on Family, and not even then.
>If you don't fight you die.
>If you're stupid you'll die.
>Not every death is by the sword, it can be from a sultry tart's smile to a poisoned drink to a blade in the night.
>All the houses are jockying for power and approval of the crown or if not that a way to secure the crown itself.
Did i miss anything else?
>>47886413
You can rely on House name only and not even that most of the time. Everyone in your house is also out for power and will likely throw you down the stairs if it means you being less of a rival.
You can be stupid or pacifistic all you want and live. However, play The Game and pull that shit and you die in the worst way.
Even if you do play, nobody wins. Nobody. There will always be someone aiming for that throne and you sitting on it merely means you're now fighting literally everyone and the only allies you'd have would be those only helping you because it helps them.
>>47886413
its just a power struggle/political intrigue between different factions (houses) really
>>47886413
Sometimes not dying is a worse fate than death.
Having power makes you a target for everyone.
Having no power makes everyone be able to trample over you to get more power.
>>47886454
>>47886470
>>47886500
Hrm...well in that case we could drum up a house right quick and see where that leads us, anyone up for it?
>>47886500
This.
Its some weird warfare game type shit where you start off naked and will remain so while bigwigs run around with guns and humvees and shit. One day you MIGHT kill someone and take their knife to better protect yourself, but now you're a target and not just some civvy. So you gotta go running around stabbing your way up the ranks till you're america with a fuck you nuclear warfare button and even then some little shits will start crap and try and gun you down with their collective weaponry. They might win.
>>47886549
Do it up.
>>47886549
I don't care what you call it or who its run by but it MUST have a major fashion focus towards codpieces. And not shitty codpieces either? That shit better match the outfit AND be a fucking piece of art. You're wearing a dark green silk tights with an amazing brocaded felt white undershirt with an immaculate maroon silk overcoat? You best be wearing the brocade cream lace codpiece or the understated black carved italian leather one or so help me god you'll be disowned.
This is nonnegotiable.
>>47886407
CHAOSH ISH A LADDA
>>47886234
Ramsay's a sadist with a track record of teamkilling and the act of firing arrows into a battle isn't exactly uncommon. They did the exact same scene in Braveheart. Its just instead of using Knights or heavy cavalry you would use the lesser trained soldiers/expendable soldiers like a company of Spearmen or other Peasants who'd been drafted in.
>>47886549
Let's rock.
>>47886617
We should also make the best armor in the land to match out codpieces.
>>47886665
Well naturally. We shant have the most artfully crafted rendition of a stallions genitallia with gold golded veins on ebony wooden sheath slapped onto any old armor. and none of that silly gilded armor but all you see for a codpiece is some pathetic divet they hammered out using a stablemens forehead business. We wouldn't want to look silly, now would we?
>>47886665
>>47886710
>Our standard issue daggers are Bollock Daggers.
>>47886710
Gold gilded*
>>47886597
>>47886617
>>47886665
Righto, cool in that case lemme find that pdf, I think I have it somewhere...Fair warning I haven't done that table loading thing to help figure that out desu
>>47886730
>>47886710
>>47886665
>>47886617
>Our house name has Cock or something relating to cocks in the name
>>47886597
>>47886617
>>47886665
>>47886753
In any case either roll me a 1d10 or whever you guys want to start out at.
Rolled 5 (1d10)
>>47886617
>>47886665
>>47886710
>>47886753
>>47886774
Our crest should be a rooster.
Our words are Die Hard
>>47886785
rollan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
Rolled 8 (1d10)
>>47886785
Here comes the snow.
>>47881650
>the director
idiot confirmed
>>47886797
>>47886799
So far we have the Iron Islands or Dorne. Any other takers?
>>47886823
You do know theres been like 17 directors right? And some individually directed the scenes for certain characters.
>>47886774
>>47886797
cockatrice
>Our words are Die Hard
hard as stone? or something along those lines
someone has to wear the codpiece from metalocalypse
>>47886868
>>47886854
So from the fact we have people wanting the cod piece and cock fixation I have the feeling we have Dorne in mind. Where else would we find such a house facinated by the cock on the mind.
Now the question is, how old is our house?
>>47886906
Shit, sorry need a d6 for figureing that out, sorry about that Anons!On an unrelated note, would Anons prefer to be a singled out guy with no house to call his own? Or is the house idea a better one?
Rolled 6 (1d6)
>>47886906
>>47886868
Only the Head of the Head of the House can wear THAT codpiece.
>>47886930
>>47886413
The important thing for GoT thematically is captured in the phrases Valar Morghulis and the sister phrase Valar Dohaeris meaning all men must die and all men must serve. For the story it means that people must learn to live (and die) with utility and stop clinging to things as silly as honor and notions of nobility. Ned does what he thinks is right, not what is necessary and he dies for it. Littlefinger does the opposite and thrives.
What it means for the setting is that the world exists as a deconstruction of stereotypical fantasy writing. The famous heroes die the same deaths as the nameless rank and file men they lead because this isn't a fairy tale. Barriston Selmy is a legendary swordmaster who dies in a dirty alley because heroes don't always get noble deaths, it's just the reality. GoT is the story of the reality that comes after the legend ends. Robert's Rebellion was the fantasy epic with over the top villains and heroes, but that's gone and over with so now here we are trying to pick up the pieces and realizing that the world doesn't really have need for heroes like Robert or Ned. It's sort of a genre swapped cosmic horror story; the world doesn't care about you or any sort of meaning you want to apply to it, it just exists as it is.
>>47886868
Cockatrice is already a Dornish house unfortunately.
>>47886906
Our house should have been built after the Targaryans first took over everything and wrecked Dorne. They were famed for being grittier, more stubborn and harder foightan than most Dornish men and were granted their house.
>>47886710
Does this mean we're going to be a cavalry nation
>The show’s writers said that they were inspired by anecdotes from ancient Roman battles and the carnage of the American Civil War, and they combined what they learned and created the most sickening 20 minutes of television in Game of Thrones’ run.
Yeah, so we looked at history and it turns out war is pretty messy and random. So in conclusion our writing should be uncoordinated and coincidental.
>>47886934
>>47886948
Mm, looks like we were founded during the Age of the Usurper, possibly a House founded for services rendered during the siege of King's Landing?
Or maybe even a new house that had found it's claim to fame else where in Dorne...
In any case gimme a d6-2 roll!
Rolled 1 (1d6)
>>47886990
Rolled 1 + 2 (1d6 + 2)
>>47886990
Maybe we got sick of Targaryan bullshit and tore shit up like southern berserkers?
>>47887011
>>47887015
Wow, we ARE a babby house, only one historical event?
In any case we should see what kind of mayhem occured, gimme a 3d6 Anons! Let's hope something good comes out!
Rolled 6, 1, 4 = 11 (3d6)
>>47887044
Come on!
Rolled 2, 4, 3 = 9 (3d6)
>>47887044
man the cap morgan is really not helping me roll well
>>47886971
Codpiece lances, awkward pillage and rapings, Ho!
>>47887086
Have our warriors be decked out in the best armour and all sorts of THRUSTING weapons like spears and thrusting swords.
>>47887066
Infrastructure...
>>47887069
And Treachery!
Which one will work for our cod loving house? The expansion under the Dornish Spear appointed to the land so as to better manage it...
Or did we gain our fame by simply laying a trap for a rival house or even perhaps selling out the secrets of others?
The first paints a picture of neutral standing though there are benefits to the frist and some to the second.
It's up to you Anons...
>Infrastructure: Chose two to increase by 1d6
>Treachery: -1d6 Influence, -1d6 Law, +1d6 Power
>>47887105
Did someone say rapiers?
I think someone said rapiers.
>>47887118
Rapiers and cod pieces oh my, sounds so delightfully...decadent.
Rolled 3, 4 = 7 (2d6)
>>47887116
>>Infrastructure: Chose two to increase by 1d6
Of course we had our way with the area.
What are we choosing to increase?
>>47887105
>Our entire arsenal is completely based around penetration, be it flesh or armor.
>>47887139
Essentially? Anything, Defence, Influence, Lands, Law, Population, Power or Wealth. It's pretty much a general boon to your house.
>>47880645
Are we sure the Vale army didn't come by sea? If the Manderleys had let their ships up the white knife they could get to the heart of the north pretty quickly.
>>47887129
We need to wear shirts decorated with colorful bird feathers.
>>47887150
Martial prowess and Influence. Everyone wants to have or cocks on their side.
>>47887177
Yes, we will go around and shove our Dominance in the face of other Houses with the two best ways of showing our Prowess.
>>47866790
That battle was a big disappointment
>>47887139
>>47887177
>>47887191
Righto so far our bonuses look to be standing at around...-5 Influence, +10 Lands -5 Law +10 Power, and a plus 3 and 4 for whichever we want...
I will of course take best of three for the infrastructure roll...
In the meantime we need to roll the starting stats for the house!
Prepare those buckets of dice! Roll 7d6 for Defence, best of three to be taken in!
Also Defense is a measure of fortifications, keeps and other holdings to keep your shit safe.
Rolled 4, 6, 2, 1, 5, 2, 4 = 24 (7d6)
>>47887229
Do you want to live forever?
Rolled 2, 6, 4, 3, 4, 5, 2 = 26 (7d6)
>>47887177
>Martial prowess and Marital prowess.
>>47887229
+4 to wealth for our bling
+3 to population because reasons
>>47887270
Gotta test out our prowess in bed, after all.
>>47887246
>>47887270
26 Defence
So far we are holding at fair to middling on the defense rating. We can hold it, with at least a fortified town or castle, some roads and ports even.
Shall we move onto influence? Will need a 7d6 roll for that, best of three!
Rolled 1, 3, 1, 2, 6, 2, 5 = 20 (7d6)
>>47887280
Our house should buy the finest bed slaves to welcome members of the house into adulthood and teach them the arts of lovemaking.
>>47887314
Rolled 6, 2, 5, 4, 1, 6, 3 = 27 (7d6)
>>47887314
Bow to the Cockatrice!
>>47887326
How many bastards do you think the house will have?
>>47887340
probably a whole army worth
>>47887327
>>47887326
Holding steady at a minor house at 27, guess I should call it best of two since I only have you two to play huh?
No matter! We shall continue onwards for the Cock!
Roll it again for our land holdings!
>>47887357
Maybe we can have a promotion system where bastards that prove their worth in battle become legitimized.
The thing is, EVERYONE has to go through the same process. That means the Head of the House, too.
>>47887373
Cept we would be in the one area that doesn't give a damn about bastards or not, all children are regarded well,
Rolled 6, 1, 1, 2, 3, 6, 1 = 20 (7d6)
>>47887370
DIE HARD!
Rolled 3, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 6 = 29 (7d6)
>>47887357
We could refer to our knights as the Bastards of Dorne or the Bastards of (house name).
>>47887373
Head of house determined by finest fuckerfighter.
>>47887370
>>47887418
>fuckerfighter
Or fightfucker.
Each head of the house has his own specialty.
>>47887410
>>47887418
>29
Looks to be a modest stretch of land or even a medium island all to ourselves, we'll have to see once we get to the actual investment portions, for now its time to LAY DOWN THE LAW! Gimme another roll at 7d6!
>>47887418
>fuckfighting
GENIUS!
duels of honor where the man that last the longest wins
>>47876558
>The only explanation that makes sense is that Sansa wanted Jon to die along with his men.
Actually, I assumed she kept them extra's a secret from Jon, because she knew Jon would fall into some kind of trap, causing the Bolton's to move in for the kill, and then she could roll in and flank them.
If she told Jon, Jon would have insisted on waiting for them, then had the whole army with him when he got trolled into the trap.
I feel like they are setting her up as having learned that "to make an omellette you gotta break some eggs". In the same way that she basically told Jon to assume Rikon was dead no matter what, because they basically had no way of saving him, and he was likely to be used against them. And was.
Rolled 2, 5, 2, 1, 5, 6, 5 = 26 (7d6)
>>47887439
the law of laying down
Rolled 2, 5, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 = 23 (7d6)
>>47887439
Law Bringers
>>47887460
>>47887464
>26
I have the strangest feeling that for all our decadent ways of life we make rather small waves in the light of things, or have yet to fuck it up yet, we have the typical amount of law in the land so far.
Now then it's time for ULTIMATE POWER! 7d6 please, after this we have population and wealth, if you guys want to go ahead and specify which is which we can go ahead nad get those out of the way.
>>47887450
I kind of want their duels to be really dangerous. Like that knife fighting thing where you tie the duelists off-hands together.
I mean, they have enough family for it to not really effect things too much.
Rolled 6, 3, 3, 6, 3, 2, 6 = 29 (7d6)
>>47887500
Let's show them what we're made of. We're hard as Iron!
Just got an idea for this House:
>>47886868
Valyrian Steel Codpieces.
Rolled 5, 4, 2, 2, 6, 1, 4 = 24 (7d6)
>>47887500
ULTIMATE POWER!!!
Die hard!
>>47887514
>>47887529
So we got some fairly normal troopers and trained soliders for now at 29
Let's see that population we can put to work! 7d6!
>>47887551
Come on, fuckfighters! Show your the prowess of your Manhood!
Rolled 4, 1, 6, 4, 4, 2, 3 = 24 (7d6)
>>47887551
Rolled 1, 2, 4, 3, 4, 6, 4 = 24 (7d6)
>>47887555
>>47887555
>>47887560
>>47887567
The Same roll twice over?! How quirky!~ 24 for Population, now finally how many gold dragons does it take to drop the cocks? gimme another 6d7!
Rolled 6, 2, 2, 1, 5, 6, 1 = 23 (7d6)
>>47887578
Wouldn't be surprised if some of our House members got paid to have sex.
Rolled 2, 5, 3, 4, 3, 3, 2 = 22 (7d6)
>>47887578
I do not know if I want us to be cheap or expensive.
Let the dice decide!
>>47866790
I liked the part where Jon and Tormund + Umber all got stuck in the group of bodies and almost died of the pressure.
That's a thing that still happens today in many situations where panic spreads in a crowd.
However, I did not like the part where the charge of two forces first turned into a scattered skirmish on a field with cavalry going everywhere and then a giant pile of dead bodies forms in the center for no reason at all.
Then you have the pants on head shieldwall, and Eofingers charge at the end.
The castle battle was fine IMO and very well done.
CGI Jons actions during the cavalry charge felt cartoony though, like it's taken from a brushed up Hobbit scene
>>47877572
this. Goodnight sweet prince.
>>47887593
>>47887594
>23
Ouch, you have enough to make ends meet, most likely a splurge on those fancy dresses your daughters are so fond of,Or sons' I dont judge I'm just a house!
So our house stats are as follows...
>Defense 26
>Influence 27
>Lands 29
>Law 26
>Power 29
>Population 24
>Wealth 23
Infrastructure History +3 and +4 to any two stats of the above!
Dornish House: +10 to Land and Power! -5 to Law and Influence!
Our new House stats after the Dorne bonus's!
>Defense 26
>Influence 22
>Lands 39
>Law 21
>Power 39
>Population 24
>Wealth 23
What did you wish to add the 3 and 4 to?
>>47887642
Add three to power. that is where our true strength is.
Add four to population. Is there a fertility god(ess) in ASoFaI? We probably worship them.
I am ignorant of Dornish religious practices.
>>47887642
Add a 3 to Wealth and a 4 to Law.
>>47881650
How can a clearly insane and ruthelessly violent fantasy character be a "pioneer for all women"
It's not like she's the first or best woman with power we see in fiction, but nonetheless we never expected Aragorn to be a role model for men
>>47887710
Unfortunately she's neither.
Why can't Aragorn be a role model anon? Too beta are you?
>>47887453
That was retarded though, because Rickon only died because neither he nor Jon thought to run to the side.
>>47887682
>>47887684
Guys are going to need to hash it out on what you're doing here, can't continue until we know what we want...
In the meantime however we can go ahead and get the investment's filled out...
What we have viable for Defense are...
>26
>With the +4, at 30 small castle +6 for Defense
>A hall for 20 +4 for solider defense
>Two Towers for 20 +3 defense at that location
>A single Tower for 10. +3 for Defense
For Influence:22
Heirs
>First born son/daughter 20
>Second Born son/daughter 10
>Other children 5
For Lands we have the follow to choose from 29
Terrain
>Hills 7
>Mountains. 9
>Plains 5
Features:
>Coast 3
>Community
>>>Hamlet 10
>>>Small Town 20
>>>Large Town 30
>Island 10
>Road 5
>Ruins 3
>Water
Stream 1
River 3
Pond 5
Lake 7
>>47887752
Rickon was an idiot who did nothing the entire series. Good riddance.
>>47880722
They got killed after sabatoging all of Wun-Wun's gear before the battle.
Truly died as heroes, if Wun-Wun was equipped with any sort of rudimentary armour or weapons he could have killed countless more men on his own, and the battle might have swung in Jon's favour before the Vale knights arrived even.
>>47887778
And I'm taking a nap for now, keep up the thread and we can continue to make the fighting cocks the bane of Westeros!
>>47887778
I`ll agree with the +3 for wealth but we should invest the 4 in one of our higher stats to make it outstanding. Voting for power.
Defense
>A hall for 20 +4 for solider defense
Influence
Heirs
>First born son/daughter 20
Lands
Terrain
>Hills 7
Our peeps like them curvy.
Features:
>Community
>Hamlet 10
>Coast 3
>River 3
>Ruins 3
A coastal hamlet at the mouth of a major river our fort sits next to the ruin of an old castle, the proof of our victory over the Targaryans.
>>47887782
Rickon was 4. What do you expect?
I can't wait for Dany to take over westeros with her dragons
Fuck yeah Khaleesi!
>>47887891
Not a god damn thing from him that is for sure.
>>47876445
>IF you can ignore the obvious tactical mistakes Ramsay made with his sheer overpowering statistical advantages
I figured that was Ramsay's stupid evil tendencies coming back to bite him, like where his decision to fire into his own men costs him the extra manpower he could've used to prevent the Vale heavy horse from outflanking his spearmen.
>>47876742
He did pick up a shield at one point and tried to use that.
>>47882949
What if the Ironborn went through the Smoking Sea, like Jorah and Tyrion did? That'd shave a long time off their journey, with only a moderate chance of horrible death.
>>47879777
> This was a pretty accurate depiction of a real battle.
Holy moly
Corpses pile up but they don't make a fucking hill in the middle of a flat plain. Fighting on corpses is *hard*. No one wants to deal with uneven footing if they can avoid it, so they'd naturally move away from dense corpsey areas if they could and die elsewhere.
Not forgetting that how fucking hard it would be to get up a soft pile of corpses in the first place. They would never get nearly as big unless you pushed an enemy into a wall
And then this shield wall shows up and the Stark forces just let the whole thing encircle then, despite being the only real enemy force left on the battlefield.
And then they get caught in the shield wall! With a giant! They literally have a living seige engine (with the hardiness of a modern tank, apparently) and they couldn't get out. It's three men deep ffs, just punch a hole in the formation and the whole thing is done for. Tower shields and pikes fucking suck when you don't have a solid formation to use them with.
>>47885478
Aside from Hardhome, where, y'know, about 9/10ths of the Wildlings were slaughtered, and Jon got so traumatised from seeing the Lord of the Long Night that he didn't realize everything going to shit for the rest of the season.
>>47880521
>>Lol I've watched so much Braveheart, shoot our own guuuuyyyssss
that's not Braveheart, that's just a standard psychopath leader trope.
have some final episode of the season spoilers so you don't need to waste time watching it
>Benjen accompanies Bran and Meera to the wall then has a vision
>vision is of Lyanna whispering something to Young Ned and he holds a baby then the next scene is of Jon
>Davos brings up that Melisandre burned Shireen and she acknowledges it
>various shit between Littlefinger/Sansa/Jon
>The Mountain kills Septa Unella
>Tommen kills himself by jumping out a window
>Jaime and Walder Frey have a celebration which is stopped short by poisoning
>>47874532
I like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exI45AnLBRc
Fuck Sansa for withholidng strategical information.
>>47888493
she probably wont even be scolded for it.
>>47881323
We can do worse than that
>Dany has now been given three free armies, two free navies and was going to have a third offered to her, she gets immunity to diseases, dragons, and "the rightful claim to the throne"
How many other characters have had this level of mary sue bullshit, removing young griff has just compounded dany's problems. Also having the battle just show up at the end really dodged the issue of just how bad dany is at ruling.
>Ramsay kills a frey, freys do nothing
Robb stark got killed for less
>Roose being stupid enough to go anywhere near Ramsay,
In the books the entire battle of winterfell is a game of "which houses are actually being blackmailed by/controlled by roose"
>Arya failing to kill a single one of her assigned targets;
At least in the books she's done a few of them so far
>Barristan Selmy killed off by a bunch of dudes with knives for shock value
>Killing off direwolves and giants so that the CGI budget can be reserved for the fucking dragons; where was ghost during the battle?
Dany speeches and dragons are boring as fuck and have been going on episode after episode for 6 seasons now. The mammoths have just been dropped, the giants have been written out and we lost two direwolves and a third was just forgotten during this season.
>>47885478
>Successfully took over command of the Night's Watch
I'll give you that one
>slew the traitors
Not in the books, he had nothing to do with them
>accomplished swordsman
Arguable, he admits in the books that a no-name from the nightswatch was far better than him
> defended Castle Black
He was fucked before stannis showed up
>recouped forces
Got killed for this one, also hardhome didnt happen in the books; the wildlings got picked up by slavers and have probably been sold off.
> Led successful assault to retake Winterfell
Not in the books he hasn't.
>>47888647
Yes, but failing to accept that the books and the show are two different stories happening in alternate realities just seems like wishful thinking now. And just think, what would your opinion be if GRR wrote the novels according to the show now?
No. There's plenty of reasons to dismiss the show, moving further away from the books isn't one of them.
The show had a huge opportunity. The material, the talent, and the budget are all there. But it seems screen writers in general get lobotomized the instant they receive any money.
>>47888704
Maybe if we changed contracts so that writers get little salary for original air ratings or opening weekend audience, but instead get huge payouts from residuals for domestic and international DVD/BR sales.
For all it's worth, I'm glad to see the consistency of Sansa becoming the next Ramsay right at the point of his death.
The death of a psycho always brings the birth of another
>>47888387
>>Tommen kills himself by jumping out a window
lol
>>47888730
That seems like the kind of retarded argument that they would throw out to make it seem like batman shouldn't have killed the joker countless times
Daily reminder that in the books Jon snow does all this shit and he is 16
Dany too
Realism of medieval age is ok, but body growth is body growth. No matter what anime you watch, no 16 years old is strong and willfull enough to do all that shit, much less defeat grown ass men in single combat
>>47888762
Sansa already gave signs of sociopathy and borderline serial killer instintcs.
The lack of empathy is one of those.
It wouldn't be too far fetched to see her become some sort of murderous asshat like Ramsay
>>47888763
Was he 16 when he left for the wall? I feel like at least a couple years have passed
>>47888779
yeah my bad, he is 17 as of now, in 300 AC
hence when he left for the wall, he was 15
lord commander at 17 years old. No wonder half the night's watch, who are all grown, manly and experienced men, hates his smug face.
Especially after Jeor Mormont who was and still is one of the best character in the series.
Also gives an explanation for Jon's complete lack of common sense
>>47888730
Glad I'm not the only one who was disturbed by this. I can't wait for the series to end with daeny as the incompetent and mad ruler of the seven kingdoms, sansa the psychopathic ruler of the north, and yara to lead the iron islands to a new era of even more raiding and raping
What would you call the helmets the Bolton soldiers wear? They don't quite look like morions because they don't have crests, but they seem too tall to be kettle helmets.
>>47888822
Don't forget about Dorne which apparently was taken over by like 4 ladies or something
>>47888822
Asha (yara) is not gonna lead the Iron Island to anything but peaceful cohabitation and turnip farming.
The only Ironborn worth his salt is Victarion, be we all know he will die and ugly death. Much like everyone else who is not Daenerys/Jon
I'm calling it now, Jon Snow is revealed to be Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark bastard son, he will marry Daenerys and they will rule the Seven kingdoms together with love, firendship and murder by dragons.
Also Jon snow is the chosen one of R'hollr and will defeat the white walkers by melting them with his farts, before completely stamping out the fate of the seven, the old gods and the drowned god again with love, friendship and murder by dragons
>>47883397
Testudo means "turtle". It's a specific formation where the soldiers put most of their shields overhead, in front, and to the sides. It's specifically intended to protect against arrows, sling bullets, and other projectiles. The attackers at Cannae didn't use it, and neither did the Boltons in this episodes.
It was not a testudo formation. Their backs were completely exposed to their attackers. Of course, given that the testudo is a defensive formation against ranged attackers, it wouldn't be very good for countering cavalry, either. But they weren't even in testudo. Their armor and weapons were pointed in the wrong way to deal with a cavalry charge. And even then, heavy cavalry would cut through a formation that thin like it was nothing.
To be honest, I think the cries for realism in a spectacle piece Fantasy show are kind of annoying to start with. But if you are going to voice criticism, at least know what the hell you're talking about. I mean, of all the things GoT has done wrong, exposed, over-extended troops being rolled up by heavy cavalry in a surprise charge wasn't one.
>>47888832
The fact that every female main character (save catelyn) has so easily avoided death bothers me. Even in the books, every female that isn't a plot device love interest has 100 backup plans and schemes and saviors to save them, while most male characters will die over a minor fuckup on their end
>>47888829
they are dickhead helmets.
standard equipment for badevil villain #57
read your fucking manual, scrub
>>47888772
>Idealized father who was publicly executed for his troubles
>Tortured sadistically by strangers at the zenith of power while having to maintain outward appearances
>Tossed aside as soon as her utility ceased
>Married off as a joke and sustained public humiliation
>Accused of treason and conspiracy to regicide
>Hidden and kidnapped by obsessed psychopath
>Made complicit in her aunt's murder
>betrayed and bargained off to the sickest sadist in the North
>Raped, threatened, humiliated in front of the traitor she grew up with like siblings
It's the making of a villain. A true psycho! She'll take after mommy and go for sadist revenge. Not against persons like lil sis, but against her feelings - it could strike anybody.
>>47866814
Reminds me of the ending to A Dance With Dragons. I still can't believe the climax of a book 7 years in the making was Daenerys having diarrhoea.
>>47888868
She may be a victim as much as anyone else, but i'm sure there are people in the game of thrones who suffered worse (i.e. every single paesant girl ever) and would most definitely not look at a guy being eaen alive by his own dogs with the face of someone trying to hid an orgasm
>>47888884
I think it's weird how everyone here is getting up Sansa's butt for having Ramsay eaten by his dogs. It was about as quick a death as the fucker could hope for, given that banner of his.
Nobody owed Ramsay a quick death. It looks like mental gymnastics to me, really. The show is full of people who have done worse, like Jaime and the Hound. Neither of those were, at any point, consider psycho sadists. But the girl giving the biggest cunt in the Seven Kingdoms his just punishment is? Please.
>>47888916
it's not the fact she killed ramsay that way. It's the fact she clearly took pleasure of it
both jaime and the hound never did the things they did with malice or because they got off on it.
She made it slow and enjyed the view. if she walked out ion him being eaten no one would've suspected anything
>>47888868
You forgot the part where they killed her familiar
>>47888884
I think she was written specifically to suffer cruel trauma. She isn't just mistreated, disrespected, and hurt. At the same time she is held up as an ideal, she has a public role to play. That dissonance it what makes her damage radical and insurmountable.
She's basically president Trump's beaten wife at the White House Correspondents Dinner, with TV's most popular comedian roasting her while she's trying to cover bruises with an uncomfortable dress.
>>47888939
I'd be more convinced by that argument if it wasn't the guy who recently raped her. The only really shady thing she did was not mention littlefinger's teleporting army
I'm surprised as everyone in this thread they didn't make wun go full Gough and become a walking fucking ballista.
