Is there any real basis for having orcs/orks/greenskins in a setting besides aping blizzard/gygax/tolkien?
I like orcs, I really do, and I love to have a race of "bad green dudes" but the setting I'm working on right now is very true to mythology and I just can't seem to find any basis for having them.
Honestly, the closest approximation I can find for orcs in a setting is savages who paint themselves blue and run around in peat bogs.
Can you fa/tg/uys help me out a bit?
Ogrekin or giantkin, there through interbreeding with humans.
I guess I'll dump some green sloots
>>47838716
Aping Blake.
>>47838716
I mean...what do you mean? Legends of green people?
Humans can occasionally be a pale blue. Some extremely inbred families in the Appalachians are famous for this.
Or you could do the 'green==plant thing.' No one has ever done that before.
>>47838716
Halflings and Dwarves are Small Sized, Humans and half-elves are Average Sized, Half-Orcs and elves are Large Sized.
>>47838716
>Is there any real basis for having orcs/orks/greenskins in a setting besides aping blizzard/gygax/tolkien?
Generic fantasy race that's been included in many different fantasy settings with their own renditions because Tolkien.
That's really about it. It's about the same as elves and dwarves. They're all races that just work. All you have to do is sprinkle a little spice and ship it. There's no other need to reinvent the wheel otherwise.
>>47838895
I wanted some kind of mythic or folkloric justification for orcs, some kind of race that was definitely not just multicolored humans. The closest I can figure are dokkalfar/svartalfar or maybe some sort of fey.
>>47838911
Yeah but there's at least some justification for elves and dwarves. I guess orcs are just OC.
>>47838904
that said, it's not unusual to have Halflings and orcs removed and instead have a spread of racial modifiers for average sized races with Dwarves and Elves being basically otherwise normal humans in terms of modifiers, but in different size categories
>>47838716
>the setting I'm working on right now is very true to mythology
Mythology is such a wide and varied grab bag of random bullshit that any decisions you make as to whether or not to include one thing and not another are essentially arbitrary. So if you want orcs, put in orcs.
>>47838951
Pygmies are an actual thing though, as are island hobbits (no really, homo floresiensis).
>>47838988
Yeah but I think the issue OP has is that he's looking for some vaguely antagonistic different race to pit against humans.
>>47838946
Not... not really. The Tuatha de Dannan and Alfr bear very, very little resemblance to the Elves of Tolkien and later fantasy, and the svartalfr bear a similar amount of resemblance to dwarves.
>>47838716
Are there any pictures of big tittied girls like that, wearing a shirt that says "cock", but isn't of an orc?
that tooth (and the green skin) is off-putting as hell
>>47838716
Tolkien described orc skin as having the color and texture of burnt wood. So, a mottled black-gray, presumably. His orcs were also smaller and weaker than humans on average, used by their masters as cannon fodder. Even the Uruk Hai, though closer to human strength and stature, were a little shy of it.
DnD orcs were initially treated as semi-porcine (this shows up in a lot of older art) and their skin wasn't green, although there doesn't seem to have been a consistent colorization. Some of them may have been shown as green, but I don't believe it was the norm early on. As far as I know, the most widespread and early depiction of orcs as greenskins were from GW. If anybody has an earlier example, I'd be interested to see it.
As for mythology, orcs aren't a part of it. Their name derives from an Anglo-Saxon generic term for an ogre/demon/evil spirit, comparable to modern English's "monster." JRR Tolkien, a linguist and expert on Anglo-Saxon, chose to use the word for his fictional creation. Orcs belong almost entirely to literature, not myth or folklore.
I always have my orcs as the agricultural/ brewer race in my games. Kind of the miss treated work horse that's easy to point fingers at.
>>47838946
Svartalfar are technically dwarves when they're not drow.
Remember also that Tolkein's Orcs are Goblins, while Generic Fantasy™ Orcs are Uruk-Hai AKA Daywalkers like Blade.
>>47838946
"Orc" is basically cognate with "ogre", or Grendel, or what have you.
>>47838716
They could be blessed by a God of war, who is green because why not.
>>47839020
They aren't supposed to be tolkien elves, that's the point.
Funny you mention the Irish, I was thinking of having fomorians kinda fill the orc void.
>>47839019
But vaguely antagonistic different race has always been 'humans from farther away than I can reasonably walk in a day.' Just have the role of the Mongols be played by orcs.
>>47839019
Pygmies turned out to just be malnourished though, they actually grow as tall as normal people (their smallest women are about '5"11 for instance) when they have a reliable source of vitamin D in their diet.
>>47839046
There's a real lack of anything about the "dark elves". They literally have more names than actual characteristics.
I'm thinking that I need to clarify the difference between ogres, trolls, giants, jotnar, etc. I think maybe all of those are too conflated among themselves.
Ape Warhams.
>>47839020
Tolkien's elves are an interesting jumble. On the one hand, you've got the grandeur, ethereal nature and beautry, and otherworld home in the islands of the West from celtic traditions. And you've got grey/dark/high divisions and a contrast with dwarves that's very Norse, considering Snorri Sturluson's lines on the Alfr. You've got the nature associations that come with both of them. But Tolkien's elves, on the whole, are much more human. They're beings of flesh and blood who live in our world and eat and drink and shit and piss like we do (though more stylishly, one presumes) whereas the fey and alfr and the like were usually seen more as otherworldy spirit-beings. Compared the Tuatha de Dannan/Fey/Anglo-Saxon elves and the like, Tolkien's elves are also a lot nicer, on the whole. They lack the disturbing amorality and soullessness that medieval fey and elves were often depicted as having.
They're an original creation. Tolkien took what bits and pieces he liked from myth and folklore, ignored what he didn't like, and glued those bits together into his elves.
>>47839099
What's super confusing to me is that I've also read a load of Maori legends, and they ALSO have elves who also have "dark elf" cousins who live underground.
Whereever there are elves, there's fucking dark elves nearby confusing shit.
Use centaurs as you barbaric antagonist race instead.
>>47839133
Don't the elves not REALLY die in bits of the tolkein lore? Like they just wake up in the western isles or something weird like that if they die in middle earth?
>>47839130
Orcs aren't apes in warhams though!
>>47839177
Mushrooms>humiez>apes
>>47839143
Yeah I notice that too, whether it's dark/light elves or seelie/unseelie. Palette swap elves can fuck off.
>>47839176
Someone had mentioned using mongols earlier but what I had refrained from saying is that centaurs already have that niche for me, at least.
>>47838716
>Is there any real basis for having orcs/orks/greenskins in a setting besides aping blizzard/gygax/tolkien?
So that you can have a race of savages without going into /pol/ territory.
>>47839177
Tolkien's a little vague on the topic. He did once write up a series of laws and customs for elves, including their societal rules and laws about resurrection, IE when an elf dies in Middle-Earth, reincarnates in the West and returns home to Middle-Earth. However, these notes were very early and he never went back to them. The only possible example in the actual stories of an elf doing this is Glorfindel, but Tolkien never confirmed if Glorfindel in LotR is the same as the one in the Silmarillion, or just two elves sharing a popular name. If reincarnation did occur, it seems to have been rare, with most elf spirits dwelling in the Halls of Mandos until the end of the world.
Tolkien's elves, though they can theoretically live forever, are more spirit than flesh, and eventually the spirit will burn the flesh away. Not literally (except in the case of Feanor), but more of a gradual fading.
>>47839133
He also based their language of Finnish, amd the Kalevala was another important piece of inspiration for LotR. He was the master of the European mythology kitchen sink, in a way that feels organic and authentic without totally reproducing its predecessors.
STOP POSTIN' SMUTTY ORCS! STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE!
>>47839201
Seelie/Unseelie are much more than a palette swap in folklore. They're extremely different in appearance and behavior.
>>47839258
>Seelie/Unseelie
Second time I'm reminded about KoAR today. Is it a sign?
>>47839254
But why anon? Why don't you like smutty, slutty orcs?
>>47839244
Yeah if you hadn't guessed I was definitely trying to avoid that. Like, you know what I would fucking love? A justification to have Super Mutants.
>>47839254
pic related
>>47839201
aww.
Trolls.
Just use trolls.
>>47838946
>Yeah but there's at least some justification for elves and dwarves.
The way I see it justification mostly depends on the lore of the setting. Sure you could slide in some original species steel donuts into your setting, but if there isn't at least a justifiable amount of lore to explain their existence then why would they be there to begin with? Same with Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, and anything else.
>>47839251
Yeah. This is why, though I hate it when people try to put their own "spin" on elves (IE taking Tolkien's elves and just making them Aztec or Maori or something like that) I have a lot of respect for someone who can do a good job of looking at tons of contradictory myths and legends, and piece together something that has the same feel but is largely an original creation out of it. When done well, those concepts seem to last.
Stoker did the same thing with vampires, for example.
>>47839299
Or ogres.
You could sort of make it like colloidal silver poisoning where their skin is being colored by something in their environment. Maybe it also agitates them as well, which is why they have a reputation as being crazed.
That being said, if you want orc dudes in your setting but want some sort of mythological basis, it might be easier to start with green dudes as a base and grab bag different bits from various mythologies to approximate what you want.
>>47839274
BIKOZ I LIKE SLUTTY-SMUTTY LOLI FAERIEZ, AND YA'Z POSTIN' COWZ
>this thread
>>47839201
I recognize that outfit.
>>47839299
Trolls are such a clusterfuck, I haven't even started looking at them yet.
>>47839313
My biggest issue is that ogres have to be big.
>>47839324
pic related
>>47839324
You posted it again! Good job!
>>47839290
Which super-mutants? Like, Fallout 2 Super-Mutants who are happy to hang out in regular towns living like normal folks, Fallout 1 Super-mutants who have a leader and a genocidal ethos, or fallout 4 super-mutants who make no sense and marauding cannibals?
You sound like you're talking yourself into being retarded.
>>47839339
Ogres don't have to be huge. 7-8 feet would be fine, comparable to GW or Warcraft orcs.
>>47839305
>Stoker did the same thing with vampires, for example.
Sheridan le Fanu, Polidori.
Okay, okay. Bare with me here. I have just three words to offer you.
Neanderthal Predation Theory.
because anytime you end up making a fantasy world you just end up with "totally not orcs", "totally not dragons", "totally not elves", ect.
>>47839345
I love em all
>>47839361
Are blizz orcs really that big compared to humans? Damn.
>>47839361
I thought the average GW ogre is described as being ten feet tall.
When were orcs created anyway? Did they all start with tolkien?
>>47839361
>7-8 ft
>>47839382
Not sure what you mean, because homo sapiens interbred with neanderthals.
>>47839415
That really seems to be the issue.
>>47839415
As many of other fantasy races, they were some norse spirits of evil, and Tolkien made them an actual race.
>>47839339
Shadowrun Trolls are kinda what you wanna look out for - shadowrun orcs are, ironically, more about fast breeding and aren't nearly as orky as trolls, but trolls have horns and stuff.
>>47839437
http://themandus.org/gallery/
NEANDERTHAL. PREDATION. THEORY.
>>47839380
Yes, yes, I know. But Stoker did a considerable amount of research of Eastern European traditions about vampires, and his Count is largely a result of him making a patchwork out of that, with some ideas of his own and the contemporary fascination with hypnotism thrown in. Dracula as an archetype has endured for almost 120 years since the book came out, and is the metric by which all modern vampire fiction is measured. Sure, Stoker was also inspired by the earlier buding of vampire literature, but I think his Count is a lot more fleshed out than most of the earlier examples in the genre.
>>47839443
>Orcs
>Norse spirits of evil
That sounds honestly really awesome. And here I thougth I knew my shit about norse mythology. Going to research that now.
>this thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY
>>47839406
I was thinking of GW orks, who are bigger than humans, but not huge. They're closer to ogres than to Tolkien's orcs who were smaller and more goblinish.
Which is ironic, since the original Anglo-Saxon meaning of orc could refer to an ogreish or a goblinish creature.
>>47839475
There's nothing to research. Orcs (the original word is orcneas) is an Anglo-Saxon, not a Nordic word. As mentioned earlier, it didn't refer to a particular creature, but was a catchall term. Ultimately it's thought to derive from Latin Orcus, another name for Pluto, some variant of which entered Anglo-Saxon as a loan word.
>>47839467
Sure, I won't dispute that. It's just the "Stoker vampire" kind of predates him. Ruthven and Karnstein are definitely of the same type as Dracula.
>>47839544
Only in the sense that they're vampires posing as seductive noblemen, in contrast to folkloric vampires who are more likely to be peasants. Stoker's rules, powers, and general conception of vampires is apart from Ruthven or Karnstein, for the most part.
>>47839523
That´s about the same as what I found googling, thanks anon.
Still this is giving me a whole lot of new ideas to use.
>>47838716
Pig orcs best orcs
>>47839639
>>47838716
Weird frog/cat hybrid orcs best orcs.
>>47838716
Arent orcs from somewhere near the alps originally? Some sort of demon.
>>47839572
kek, okay. If you're going to argue there aren't strong similarities between Mircalla and Dracula I think that's pure contrarianism, so enjoy it I guess. I'm not interested in some merry-go-round of bullshit.
>>47839709
That's pretty good too
>>47839639
I stand behind evil caveman orcs.
They're even easy to justify.
The thing about orcs is that in the absence of a diverse mythological or folkloric base to amalgamate from, history is used instead. If you strip away the monstrous appearances, orcs are just the "invading barbarian horde" archetype that has cropped up in the cultures of every civilization. Which stereotypically barbarian culture they're based on varies a fair amount. Sometimes you get a bit of Norse Viking, a bit of Celtic headhunter. Tolkien was definitely inspired by medieval accounts of the massed cannon fodder hordes of Saracens in things like the Song of Roland. In later years a lot of writes have gone to the Mongol/generic steppe nomad hole for orc characterization.
They're nothing uniquely supernatural or inhuman about them. They're just demonized human stereotypes, exaggerated to the point of monstrousness and then mashed together.
>>47839724
Oh, I'll argue nothing of the sort. There are strong similarities. Stoker was clearly inspired and influenced by that story. But I think, through his own research and creativity, he created something recognizably distinct in Dracula, and I would say it is his template that has better stood the test of time.
>>47839803
>Demonized human stereotypes.
That´s a part I hate about most depiction of orcs. They´re almost always chaotic evil everywhere.
>>47839881
I hate to say it, but it's what we've got. Personally, this is why I try to avoid using orcs in my settings, because without mythology to drawn on I'm basically just reskinning human cultures.
>>47839345
Don't forget the ones in New Vegas, who had their own town.
>>47839997
Those are just fallout 2.
>>47839345
The Fallout 4 super mutants are on the same warpath as the Fallout 1 super mutants. They're just leaderless as far as I know.
>>47838716
I like using them as a counter-weight to civilization. There has to be a reason magic exists and it's not utopia. It's because orcs fuck everything up. Everytime. Forever.
>>47839803
I'm pretty sure that Tolkein, in one of his letters drew a direct comparison between his orcs and the Mongols, so that's not just later writers.
>>47839803
What if orcs were a sort of tulpa of human bigotry? That is, every culture assumes there's some horde of foreign savages coming to murder them all and steal their stuff, and that concentrated belief creates an avatar of all those beliefs? A marauding ghost-army of barely human brutes who appear only to destroy, rape, and pillage who vanish as soon as there's no more of that to do.
>>47839290
They're clearly pink, anon.
there is zero reason not to call your orcs goblins, trolls, devils or ogers just because D&D insist on using the word differently
it's as stupid as insisting that store clerks need to have faith magic or else they aren't clerics
>>47840335
Tolkien referred to them as Mongoloid, IE having East Asian features such as slanted eyes or broad, flat faces. Tolkien was a tad racist, though I think it was largely an unconscious racism..
>>47839056
Right, but non-Tolkien elves just... literally aren't elves. They're a completely different thing.
make orcs the sea peoples
>>47840430
Elves pre-date Tolkien as a concept and older versions are pretty different from his. His version is popular, but it is not the end-all-be-all of what an elf is.
>>47839881
Well, the thing is, that's what Tolkien orcs were for. Tolkien wanted to tell a black and white story about good and evil. The bad guy is a literal demon. But he didn't just want a man versus big monsters story, he wanted a war story, with armies. So he invented the orcs as soulless, evil monster people. They let him tell stories about armies clashing without the enemy needing to be human. They're the quintessential mook, the robot army or faceless stormtrooper. They exist to be humanoid enemies it's okay to kill, guilt free. Like zombies.
>>47839056
Fomorians are basically just evil fae.
>>47839382
>>47839461
This is just headcanon. Humans interbred with neanderthals and were more suited to survive due to better teeth.
>>47838716
Then don't have them. Is that so bad?
>>47840460
Tolkien also regretted that part and said that no race was inherently evil, but that was later in his notes or other later written material.
Otherwise, yeah that´s what they were created for in universe and out.
>>47840510
Yes, I know. I didn't mention it because it's not relevant to what I said.
>>47840491
Oh of course. It's as insane as aliens controlling the government or the Loch Ness monster.
That said, I really like it as inspiration for orcs. A really bestial and carnivorous, but still basically sapient, hominid relative. It means you don't have to have a complicated background myth, they feel a little more grounded, and it makes more sense for them to be more universally hostile.
They're wolves, but man shaped and can throw spears.
>>47840452
That you are using the spelling "elves" rather than "elfs" should tell you precisely how influential Tolkien was.
>>47840550
Ah, sorry for assuming then. My mistake.
certain types of nordic trolls are basically orcs
>>47839019
>antagonistic different race
unreasonable black skinned humans or a death cult from the deserts.
>>47840460
The thing is that Tolkien's morals are simplistic on exactly the same way Christian morals are. It's not just good vs bad, it's god's will and plan for the world vs satan
If you read LotR without paying attention to the religious motifs you're missing half the experience
>>47840452
Sure, but they're literally nothing like the Elves in Tolkien's fiction. They're a completely divorced concept.
>>47840648
Gods plan for the world includes Satan. Satan tempts mortals so God can weed out the bad ones.
>>47840811
Couldn't god just not make bad ones?if the answer is no then he ain't worth to be called god
>>47840963
>>47840963
>I literally have zero understanding of religion so I just repeat that one epicurus quote out of context
Go look up nietzsche's concept of maximum god and learn a thing or two, dumbass
>>47841042
I'm not that anon and I don't know what you're talking about, but MAXIMUM GOD just sounds insanely metal.
>>47838716
because one of the sentient races needs to be bigger than humans.
Post more orc grills
>>47841059
Those were my thoughts exactly when I first went through Nietzsche
>>47841010
>>47840963
The closest explanation I've ever been able to find is that life is a learning process, the eventual goal of all beings is to population Heaven like a giant city so God isn't alone.
Some Christians interpret Hell as being a temporary place, where you're put until you decide to repent sins and accept god whereupon you get released to ascend. The Devil is stuck in Hell because his shtick is the 0% chance of success rebellion that he's never going to give up. You basically have to refuse to go to Heaven.
Bad things on Earth are inconsequential in the long run. God could have created FAR worse things, what we're at is basically a world where you can get paper cuts or trip and skin your knee and that's our maximum understanding of suffering.
So according to those rationalizations, life is grade school and the point is to graduate to Heaven.
I dunno.
Goes with how according to the Bible, God created two animals who had absolutely no understanding of morality and put them in front of food and told them it would be immoral to eat it, then sent his angel who's entire job it is to tempt beings into doing shit, then punished them only AFTER they understood what they did was wrong.
>all these really pretty orc ladies
Wild and savage orc females are the best I think.
>>47841258
>implying you can't have both
>>47841330
I don't see how that can be taken as pretty in any way anon.
>>47841130
Maximum God is that you can't question God
We, as humans, have limited understanding and knowledge of our world and the ultimate consequences of our actions. The all-knowing God presented in christianity is infinitely wise, and therefore is going to know better than any human
Evil exists for a reason. Imperfect humans can guess and question evil as much as they like, but since they can't see the big picture they'll never understand the real why. Maximum God knows why evil exists, and allows it to exist because in the long run of the big picture things will be better because of it
>>47839249
> Tolkien never confirmed if Glorfindel in LotR is the same as the one in the Silmarillion, or just two elves sharing a popular name
He actually did. Some of his very last writings talk about how Glorfindel was fast-tracked for reincarnation by the Valar and sent back to Middle-earth in the Second Age to help the free peoples against Sauron (similar to how the Wizards were sent later).
>>47838716
If I wanted to use orcs as a new spin I'd do an Amazonian spin on it. Why be green and not camouflage into the trees. Slooty outfits and crudely designed weapons fit perfectly. They could be deep in the woods/jungle, only seeing other races rarely.
>>47840648
Christianity has concepts like redemption and mercy. The Lord of the Rings has the moral complexity of DOOM. There are demons, we must kill all the demons. Evil is a physical entity which we merely to need use violence to defeat.
The Lord of the Rings is great but complex and realistic handling of morality is not one of it's virtues.
>>47841386
tl:dr god works in mysterious ways. Such a cop out.
>>47841559
I never liked "mysterious", when when "unknown" is more accurate.
>>47841559
Well, you can't expect a finite being to comprehend the choices of a non-personal infinite one, by definition, so, in the end, that is going to be the answer.
>>47841580
Unknown does work better yes. The ways exist and make sense but we lack the capacity to grasp them.
>>47841559
It's not a cop-out as much as the logical evolution of religion
And why most kids who recite pic related are idiots who just recite pic related are just parrots
Gonna post a few Orcs.
Blizzard was aping GW.
I'm not kidding. Warcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer game but Blizzard couldn't get the rights, so they decided to make a knockoff.
Now on to your real question: the reason to have orcs is to have barbaric savages that it's okay to hate. If you come up with a different barbaric savage race, then you don't really need orcs; Dragon Age, for instance, replaced them with Darkspawn, while The Legend of Zelda uses the various -blin enemies to the same effect. Even Tolkien originally used goblins, and "orc" was just sort of used as a synonym for "goblin" in The Hobbit.
You can still have orcs if you have another savage race; they can be different flavors of savages, or you can even go the Warcraft route and make your orcs articulate and well-intentioned.
>>47841615
>>47838716
Don't worry about aping the greats. Everyone else did. Just ape them well and no one will mind.
Personally I think Warcraft got Orcs right. As did The Elder Scrolls.
>>47841641
>>47841657
>>47841672
>>47841613
It does leave the question of why God, who should be capable of making a world where Evil does not have to exist, chose to make a world where leaving Evil alone would be a better option for himself and all of us.
He could have just engineered things so that Evil is not necessary to the grand plan, since he made the grand plan, and all of the pieces that make up the plan, and every wrench that could possibly be thrown into the grand plan's works.
>>47841697
>>47841708
>>47838716
I like Orcs as much as the next guy but really you've answered your own question.
>the setting I'm working on right now is very true to mythology and I just can't seem to find any basis for having them.
If they do not fit the setting then they should not be in it.Unless it's for the sake of magical realm ofcourse.
>>47841720
So this isn't an Orc, but might as well be an Orc in Space. Not be confused with Orks.
>>47841330THE BEST
>>47840765
That's not accurate. Tolkien went down his own path, but looking a the myths you can absolutely see the connections to where he went.
>>47838716
In my setting, all of the races are genetic modified abhuman refugees from dying universes. They don't know it. It's the only way I can justify so many humanoid species in one world. Orks would have been a warrior gene-caste. They were meant to be cost efficient by being able to survive on the corpses of their enemies. Their current green-bad-guyness is a product of genetic programing.
I think the better question is, why not get rid of Halflings and Gnomes?
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ggr8GvE.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>47838716
Fun fact: In Middle Earth, Orc is just a word men use to refer to larger goblins, and goblins are a far cry from the contemporary notion of a little green annoying dude. It's orc is directly synonymous with hobgoblin, and both are just a more specific classification of goblin. Hobgoblin is used commonly by men as well as elves speaking human languages. It's not even a drastic difference in size either; a foot or two at the absolute most; not like the GM Orcs and Gobs where one's 7+ and the other's a midget.
They're sort of like crude barbaric elves if I remember correctly. Regardless, the modern notion of an orc being a big muscly green guy is an extremely recent development, brought on in large part by games workshop's Orcs and Blizard's (then) knock-off GW Orcs.
>>47842114
I think gnomes as a race are hella gay, I use them as earth elementals.
>>47838716
In my homebrew setting, orcs were created as a slave race by breeding humans with goblinoids, no magic involved. They were created only recently, ~500 years ago, they they don't have a strong identity or culture beyond what they picked up from their human creators half a century ago.
One unique aspect of their culture stems from the fact that orcs can't give birth vaginally: their infant skulls are too large to fit through their mother's pelvis, combined with the fact that twins are typical, triplets common, and quadruplets fairly likely. Instead they've ritualized a caesarean birth procedure; birth is seen as a battle between the infants occurring within the mother, and it's the mother's duty to end it before they (and she) all die. The mother performs the procedure herself, or in some tribes the father is permitted to assist. Generally 50% of the infants are dead, and those are thought to be the losers of the battle. As such, orcs are already accomplished warriors from the moment they are born, or so they believe.
>>47842331
It might be worth noting that Goblinoids in this setting are a single, eusocial species. Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears are each castes within the structure of the Warren.
The Goblins are the non-breeding females, and they are the worker caste, growing/gathering food and taking care of the young.
The Hobgoblins are the non-breeding males, and they are the soldier caste, defending the Warren from threats.
The Bugbears are the breeding males, adapted for fighting amongst themselves over breeding rights.
Most Warrens have a single Queen, a breeding female.
Upon the death of a queen, a single Goblin will begin to grow larger, and develop sexually, and will instinctively flee the Warren. At this same time, the eldest Hobgobins will also grow larger, becoming Bugbears, and they will chase her down, competing with each other (and the hazards of the outside world) for mating rights. A Queen will mate with several Bugbears during this period (including Bugbears from other Warrens) before returning to the hive.
A Queen Goblin will only ever have one pregnancy, and it almost always kills her, giving birth to around 100 young Goblins and Hobgoblins. The young, each weighing less than a pound at birth, are then raised by the Worker Goblins who begin to lactate in response. At this point one of the workers will begin to develop into a new Queen and the process begins all over again.
>>47842219
Paracelsus gnomes are the best gnomes. OG, baby.
They're green due to Warhammer fantasy. In DnD prior to that they were grey
Warhammer Fantasy creators explicitly said that they are green because they reminded them of the incredible hulk
>>47839031
They are also supposed to be based on Mongolian raiders and are said to have slanted eyes as well
>>47842331
>In my homebrew setting, orcs were created as a slave race by breeding humans with goblinoids, no magic involved.
And who could blame them?
>>47842533
Nobody cares, fuck off
>>47838895
Does fungus count?
>>47841330
Is that Incase's work? Is there a more sfw version of that orcess floating around? I'd like to have one for /fit/ fictional goal body threads.
>>47842646
>anon shares setting information and actual content
>lol fuck off
Anon, take your own advice.
>>47842533
I was with you until the non-breeding/queen thing.
That just seems adding a bit too much oddness for the sake of it.
>>47838716
Green orcs are largely absent from mainstream fantasy except in gaming. Why do you feel forced to include them? Just skip them, it's fine.
>>47842778
It's by cedargrove:http://www.hentai-foundry.com/user/cedargrove/profile
This pic is not the original I had to crop out the nsfw half
>>47842646
>>47842891
I appreciate though, thanks man. Great taste in orc bitches by the way, savagery a cute.
>>47842778you might find a manga called dorohedro to your liking
>>47843016
You and I are allies now
>>47842846
Not him, but that's how eusociality works. It's fairly cool. They're like naked mole rats, but smart.
>>47839709
>>47842846
Don't think of it like that then. They aren't ants or bees, where their castes are hard-set at birth, the Goblinoid castes are based on sexual maturity. A Hobgoblin is just a Bugbear that hasn't hit "puberty" yet. The same is true for Goblins and Queens. The only difference is that sexual maturity occurs based on the needs of the population rather than the age of the individual.
So think of Goblins as being trapped as little girls forever. Think of Hobgoblins as being trapped as pre-teen boys on he cusp of puberty.
>>47843331
...this is starting to sound Magical Realmy
>>47843331
>>47843364
Why does THAT make it sound magical realmy?
If anything is magical realm about it, it's the "Queen's flight" from the warren where she's chased down and mated with against her will. A human would call that "rape" but the reality is many species use the females' unwillingness to copulate as a "fitness test" for the male suitors.
>>47843364
You should hear about my dwarves.
>>47843016
Why is that guy's face a roasted chicken?
>>47843497
It's been a long time since I read Dorehedoru but I seem to recall that all magic users have masks.
>>47843434
Too*:^)
>>47843497
It's a mask, all magic-users wear them. His specialty is cooking up clones of people with some of their memories and habits using food meat and herbs, hence the chicken mask.
>>47842187
>They're sort of like crude barbaric elves if I remember correctly.
Weren't they actually relatively industrialized and advanced compared to humans?
>>47842778
>Is that Incase's work?
Nope, notice distinct lack of sameface.
>>47843497
>>47841059
Well, if man can ascend/advance to overman, can god ascend/advance to overgod?
>>47838716
You want low fantasy demons that are still dangerous for what they are and not who could be using them use orcs.
A band of Orcs and a band of Imps or Quasists, are about equally dangerous to the common folk, but Imps and Quasits are often heralds to Stronger Devils and Demons
>>47843558
No. On par with humans, sure, but not objectively superior.
>>47843568
can't get turned on with such grotesque clipage happening
>>47843773
Better?
>>47843773
that would still put them leagues over modern orcs though
>>47843807
Whoops forgot to spoiler, oh well.
>>47840811
>>47841521
So... you haven't actually read The Lord of the Rings, I take it? The whole war against Sauron is remarked time and time again to be completely hopeless. Nobody is dumb enough to think they can physically defy Sauron or his armies. Humanity is reduced to a few tiny settlements and constantly under attack, the Elves no longer give enough of a shit to stay and all go to the West. The Fellowship is a crushing failure. Literally the only thing that saves Frodo and the world at large is divine grace causing Gollum to slip at Mount Doom. And if you read the Silmarillion you can see how Eru only allows Morgoth to even exist so that his corruption can add to the greatness to the Music of the Ainur.
>>47843807
nigga do you not see the cuffs on her braces?
>>47843848
Blame the guy who took these pics
>>47839176
"You will be broken!"
Do orc girls like human shotas?
>>47841521
The whole saga, from silmarillion to the return of the king has lots of turn coats, runaways, and left-field heroes that fall out of the roles their races would cast on them. Obtuse metaphors doesn't make it not complex, it just makes it heavy handed. It objectively lacks subtly. Not to mention that lots of characters do dastardly things without Melkor's direct influence.
You also can't violence Melkor. He doesn't even have the physical form of Morgoth anymore. Additionally, even Melkor himself is a rogue who broke away from the other Ainur.
>>47843940
Duh.
I'm beginning to think OP doesn't actually know his shit and isn't even writing anything.
>>47843940
Yes. Human shota + orc girl is a long tradition.
>>47844031
Melkor exists inside literally everything in Arda except water. He no longer sits at Angband scheming his next attack, but all the evil in the world is the result of his influence
>>47843940
Well, yes, but I'd be hard pressed to think of species that doesn't...
What if orc girls found out you guys have an orc fetish?
>>47844136
What about ogres?
>>47844151
I'd imagine most of them would have a variety of reaction. The top 3 being, disgust, confusion, and "Yes please."
![QO8DFa0[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/6rXrOtc.gif "QO8DFa0[1].gif")
>>47844118
The point stands that he's not skeletor. You can't go find him and defeat evil.
>>47844184
>>47844202
I want to be raped by a thicc orc girl.
>>47840963
Well, I mean, it would make sense God let's us choose but trusts us to do the right thing. You're choosing to tip your fedora, but you could easily stop right now.
>>47843244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y
the only redeeming factor in the animated Lord of the Rings was the music
The Hobbit was actually good tho and rankin bass is fucking amazing
>>47838716
Why does she have "cock" written on her shirt?
>>47844803
She's a big fan of the poultry industry.
>>47844803
You wear band shirts because you like the bang right?
Same logic.
>>47838716
>Honestly, the closest approximation I can find for orcs in a setting is savages who paint themselves blue and run around in peat bogs.
I would be offended by your comparing my people to orcs, if that wasn't exactly what they did.
>>47841698
You think in shades that are too stark to see true color.
Reject the cloven duality.
>>47839320
>Not liking big bountiful breast full of milk
disgusting....
>>47840963
>Couldn't god just not make bad ones?
Yes and he did, they're called angels.
Humans were created to see if things that could do bad would do good, the results are inconclusive.
>>47839320
Have a fairy with a sphere of annihilation for a stomach, i guess.
>>47841698
That's heaven. We're not in heaven.
It's the whole free will thing. We are left here to do whatever. If the option of evil -to do wrong- is removed, we don't have free will.
People also say they can't understand how omniscience and free will work together, but I see it like a false choice, a Batman Gambit type of situation; you know your friend is going to make Y choice instead of X because you know him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make that choice himself. You are free to make choices, the big-h He just knows what that's going to be.
>>47843434
>>japanese censoring at its finest.
>>47838716
Orca have become intertwined with the Concept of Fantasy as a whole, much in the same way as elves and dwarves.
>>47839639
8/10 hentai heroines agree!
>>47846019
I take it the other two are too mindbroken to voice their opinion.
>>47840639
This is perfect. Do the unreasonable humans join this death cult and turn the cities into a hotbed of crime and violence?
>>47843244
KEK
>>47844678
>the only redeeming factor in the animated Lord of the Rings was the music
Their witch king was 100% less dumb.
>>47845618
>anon... your dads are having an important meeting in the other room
>anon, don't you think you should listen in on their meeting?
>there could be important stuff happening...
>anon, pls....
>>47845846
It's western art, it was censored for posting on /tg/
>>47846158
pls go, we're trying to have a non /pol/ discussion
>>47844269
cute
>>47845852
>Orca
?
>>47846477
Dubs confirm Orca Orcs are now a thing, MAXIMUM GOD demands it!
>>47838716
The simple reason is that variety is the spice of life, and having more races is fun.
>>47838716
I needed a disposable race/species that everyone could hate and who could be exterminated without a lot of people weeping about it as part of the backstory to why the whole world is slowly being fucked over as gods start killing one another and the balance of nature is thrown entirely out of whack. Days last for months, oceans flow upstream, three-headed cows are born, etc. And that's tied into the Orc gods causing all kinds of trouble and getting curbstomped by humanity, which causes its own problems when the main human god starts fighting and killing other gods.
>>47842187
No, Orcs and Goblins are different. Orcs are made from twisted elves, goblins are made from twisted humans.
>>47846945
>the waifu of Metzen's self insert
>>47846689
I have no idea where you heard that, but it's not remotely true. Tolkien uses "goblin" and "orc" completely interchangeably. They're synonyms.
>>47845554
FYI, part of the reason people have issues with the whole "___ works in mysterious/unknown ways" shtick is that people then turn around and go "Oh, no, we know why he/she/they/it did *this* thing, it's that *other* thing that we don't get".
And yes, we might be able to understand some of the reasoning of a deity/deities without necessarily understanding all, but if we can't understand all of it then how can we be sure that we understand the parts of it that we think we do?
>>47842562
Also because they needed a reason for people to buy green paint
>>47843558
Absolutely, they had technology and medicine outclassing (but more user dangerous) than the elves, they where only really crude in terms of armor iirc
>>47838716
Just make orcs elves who went off the reservation. That's what I'm doing, there are some elves in my setting that have lived in wooded seclusion for too long and now they're violent and hate outsiders and also cannibals.
>>47838716
What do you think orcs are if not a modern mythological creature?
>>47847075
Oh, is that Grimgorgon from the movie?
>>47843940
Easiest age to train them to be proper fucktoy so yes
>>47838716
>savages who paint themselves blue and run around in peat bogs
>savages
Fuck you Roman scum.
>>47838716
A race with a extreme muscle hypertrophy and particular hormonal imbalances. They're physically endowed and prone to stronger emotions.
>>47838716
Fuck off Ribs.
At some point I know it's gonna be you and not some random other person I mistaken as you.
>>47839031
You are correct; the hulking green-skinned brute is something that stems from Games Workshop's stuff, though in all likelihood WarCraft (the first games, not the MMO) had a lot more to due with popularizing it since it reached a much wider audience and orcs still looked like this before 3e rolled around.
>>47839290
>Yeah if you hadn't guessed I was definitely trying to avoid that. Like, you know what I would fucking love? A justification to have Super Mutants.
You don't NEED to take from actual mythology.
Especially since mythology is nonsensical as fuck (they weren't designing game worlds, they were telling random-ass stories to explain parts of the world they didn't understand after all) and therefore any ridiculous thing you do is totally justified by right of you saying so.
The First Law series had orcs (they called them "shanka" but they were identical in description to old-school D&D orcs) and it's justification was "they're actually biological weapons created ages ago", explaining why all they seem to do is kill, breed, and then prepare to kill even more.
>>47842589
goblin boys a best
>>47839299
have different varieties, with tribal orcs, civilized orcs, savage orks, etc.
