Without my animi I am so lost with my trolls

Hey, starting the game with cygnar and feel kinda lost with the options. What do I actually want to take? What're some common things people think will be mainstays of the faction?

>>47804584
Just look at some tournament lists, see what units/models appear in lots of different ones, and get some of those. Don't think about it beyond that.

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>>47804570
Yeah... I just... ugh. I look at my Trolls and I don't know what to say.

Didn't expect I'd ever look at this game and just feel tired.

>>47804570
You sound like someone who just got banned from /a/.

>>47804602
There haven't been any tournaments for mk3 yet as far as I know though... what should i do

>>47804610
>>47804570
>not knowing how to adapt to new things
literal kek

>>47804656
Look at Mk2 lists. Do you want to play Warmachine or do you want to be a tryhard at everything you do?

>>47804687

You do understand that a way to play a faction (animi as distributed spellcasting) just up and disappeared? There's no adapting from that, it's outright learning a new unfamiliar playstyle that happens to use models that look the same.

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can someone make me feel warm and cozy and tell me a tale of salty cryx / legion players?

>handful of cryx players at my flgs
>2 are super tryhard nofuns to play against
>literally flipped their shit when they heard about nerfs to banes
>one liquidated his shit on ebay
>other vowed to wait till mk4
>both are now playing star wars armada, making that group hate them as much as we hated them in warmahordes

30 year olds shouldn't get so upset at toy soldiers

>>47804910
The resident Cryx player at my LGS who basically never plays but talks about how good his faction is and owns 3 units of Bane Knights (none of which have even been built yet) is endlessly salty about the Mk3 changes. Like every time he comes into the LGS he just whines about Cryx being terrible now.

>>47804910

Are Legion players even that salty?

I've seen more salt from Skorne and Trolls from the Hordes side of things.

>>47805029

There was complaining after the Insider, but once more details came out most people seem pretty okay with the 3e version of Legion.

>>47804898
It always existed. You just didn't use it.

>>47804999
If he owns 3 units of bane knights then hes not in a terrible position. Bane knights are still very good. Bane warriors, however...

>>47805087

Not trollblood, just not trolling

>>47805029
Not really. Legion seems like it is in a good place, and after the initial whining (mainly after the insider), people have calmed down.

Are there any other casters good for Dire Troll herds other than Doomy?

>>47804999
>tfw local Cryx players simply started selling their stuff that isn't good anymore and started to look for other infantry options like Croe's

So do we know what the themed forces are for the factions yet?

>>47805510

We won't get theme lists until December-ish.

Cephalyx was the one exception since it's literally the only way to play them.

>>47805114

Do they have any redeeming factors?

I got into Cryx at the end of Mk2 because I played VC in Warhammer fantasy and it seemed like the natural transition. I bought two boxes of bane warriors, officer and standard, plus Tartarus.

Am I screwed?

Has anyone posted any of the newer book PDFs?
The Blood of Kings, Wrath of the Dragonfather, or IK Unleashed: Wild Adventure?

>>47805681
So, about a year ago i bouth about 100 pts of skorne then my freind gave me 100pts of trolls.
Both need models, so want to sell one.

The question though:
In MkIII, which faction should i drop? Trolls or Skorne?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rktt2uw29q3fy5k/AAAgvmEv04DYU2Gg_cqUxsDta?dl=0

Gonna leave these here for those that have missed it.

>>47805857
never play skorne in mk3

>>47805472
E grissel is an option, Borka 2 is an option

>>47805857
Answer is obviously Trolls.

You'll be able to find buyers for the Trolls.

>>47805575
You're fine. The faction just went from s+ tier to solid B.


>>47804610
As a troll player I'm enjoying the few games I've played so far but it feels weird. Like buff stacking and arm skew used to be our thing, but now the buff stacks are MUCH smaller and the skew is just a little extra arm and a a little extra def.

Aside from Gunny, Madrak2, and the doomies, everything feels a little short. I can' help but look at skin walkers or man-o-wars and be pretty jealous. Aren't trolls supposed to be the attrition faction? Where's my hyper-regen or shield wall infantry? Where's my 8 boxes?

If only Borka kept iron flesh.

If we still had the best heavy infantry in the game the loss of the buff stacking would be easier to swallow.

But for now the doomy meatwall and the madrak double fens are enough fun to keep me around.

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As a Cryx player I'm somewhat upset by the nerfs- I feel like a few were excessive. Deneghra 1 losing the -2 FOC part of her feat I am fine with- it was absolutely ball-busting, but deneghra 2 going from auto shadowbind to granting shadowbind on hit to friendly models. I would have thought that making shadowbind shake-able was enough of a nerf to her feat (it was straight up worse than Kreoss 1 or Barnabus).

That said, it is nice to be able to play Bane Warriors without people bitching about them. Ironically, when most players are shelving them, they're coming off of my shelf.

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>>47805575

Bane Warriors are still fine- they are some of the hardest hitting infantry in the game and they apply an armor debuff that you do not need to roll for. Those two things make them worth taking. Defensively they are kind of shitty and they are now slow and have average MAT, but most of these problems are easily fixed by our casters/in-faction models

>>47805575
Its fine, I suppose you could run your Thralls as knights. The faction is fine, just less exciting. Ine could argue that the game as a whole is less exciting (excluding cygnar and ret)

>>47805565

I can't shield them all, but I've got enough to keep a second row in reserve and to block LoS.

My intuition is the game goes like this:

Starting with the second turn, you kill one jack and hurt another every turn, and I can't stop it. If I play *well*, you kill 4 jacks total over turns 2-4. By that time, either

a) I've killed two monitors or the PA, and I win
b) I've pushed your line back enough that I can tank the remaining jacks and win on scenario
c) You manage to prevent both a) and b), and you win

And it'll come down to terrain and whoever pilots their list the best. It's going to be a matter of me using Fortify and LoS to keep the PA out of the fight as long as possible.

>>47805604

I'm a lot more scared of the Mother list, just because I don't see enough raw damage there to win scenario or attrition against 8 ARM 19 heavies.

In any case, more grist for the theorymachine mill. Thanks for the discussion.

>>47805904
I'm more at loss for us to kill armor. I feel enslaved to Rok and mauler every game.
not being able to buff infantry damage is really making me frustrated.

I also wish tough was just gone at this point. It's so superfluous that I don't even feel motivated to roll for it.

Cygnar and khador are terrifying and I have no idea how to beat them now.

Still playing mkII until everyone has a chance to adapt. What should I run with Asphyxious3, 35pts?

>>47806104
Banes and heavies

>>47805871
>>47805894
Well fuck....

>>47806002
What's your fortify formation, by the way?

The big issue I see here is where your choir and other support elements end up.

And remember that the PA has a ROF5 POW11(13 with Harm) gun as well. If I can't drag shit, I can just lob shots into your heavies.

I don't even think I devote a whole lot towards straight up killing a heavy either. If I get cortex or movement, I likely just move on. Especially cortex, since that stops Power Up, even with the mechanics.

>>47806174
I'm not going to say Skorne is perfectly fine, but they're not nearly as bad off as people are making it out.

Rasheth is likely one of the best shit polishing casters in the game, and their new BB caster has one of the best defensive feats, straight up.

>>47806330
I hate the fact that im driven to play just a pitiful amount of caster to remain competitive.
I'd rather have a more variety. And by variety i mean more than 2 or 3 lists

>>47806330
I think eHexxy, Mak3, pZaal, Rasheth, Xekaar and pMorg are all pretty playable

>>47804910
>super tryhard nofuns to play agains

You already said they played Warmachine anon

>>47805892
eBorka Dire Herd.
>Dat Countercharge
>Dat Rok Stumbling Drunk
>Dat polar bear

>>47805869
thx m80
btw WHAC is getting shit done and it looks like we might have it pretty soon.

>>47806050
Rok and Mauler have doing fine for me. Mostly playing against circle, menoth, khador and mercs. The only time infantry have killed a heavy is lucky blood fury'd fens or champs.

>>47806693
5 fury though

>>47807088
Bone Grinders. I can see their potential with Snacking Dire Trolls.

>>47807088
>>47807410
rune bearer?

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Any one else having problems with war room 2? Won't work on my phone or my tablet.

>>47807677
Shit suck, but im glad some nice guy at my LGS let me use his tablet gor playing. Doens't help that Menoth cards are all but fail prints...

>>47807677
It should have been updated a few days back. My tablet didn't automatically update it. Had to manually do it. Maybe you had the same problem?

Warroom 2 would crash on my tablet on startup before the update. Now it works fine as long as I don't open the rules PDF.

>>47807755
I did a fresh install yesterday on my phone. It still says downloading expansion and then kicks me back to menu

>>47807848
That's because it's shitware.
I can do a port of conflict chamber for real cheap.
t. mobile app dev

>>47807882
>I can do a port of conflict chamber for real cheap.
Also WHAC is supposed to be up-to-date at the end of the month.

>>47807910
Shut the fuck up anon, I'm trying to get work over here.

>>47807938

Speaking of, isn't the Withershadow Combine an attachment now rather than just a unit?

>>47807938
But we don't need a list maker, we need all the rules and cards

>>47808262
Which is something we didn't know we needed until WarRoom.

So I gotta give em credit for that.

>tfw infernals ruled eCaine can elect to trickshot the same target

>>47808831
That isn't a ruling, it's a temporary fill in until it's checked.

>>47807975
Fixed on conflictchamber.com

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>>47804910

>>47805575
They lost stealth AND tough and have victim stats in the gunline edition, Bane Thralls are garbage.

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Dward thing

>>47809964
I need dat Behemoth.

>>47810015
jacks look pretty good with actual decent sized legs

>>47809964
>Behemoth
Hnnnnnnnnggggggggg

>>47809964


That looks so metal slug

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>>47804533

Does Privateer Press have a big ass museum of models and dioramas and shit like GW has at Warhammer World in London?
I'm only a few hours away from Bellevue where their headquarters is and I'd love to go by there sometime. Any reason to stop by?

>>47805575
Running them will be easier when Gunslingers are out. Rolling smoke is super crazy good.

Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 (+29) points

(Durgen 1) Durgen Madhammer [+29]
- Ghordson Avalancher [17]
- Ghordson Avalancher [17]
Ogrun Assault Corps (max) [16]
Ogrun Assault Corps (max) [16]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [19]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [19]

I want to like durgen, but rhul jacks are suffering

I have a lot of odds and ends mercs I've picked up over the years for cheap, and now that they look to be in a good spot in MK3 I was thinking about dusting them off.

>pMagnus and Bart
>2 Renegades, a Mule, and a Mangler
>Ragman
>Min Croes
>Min Boomhowlers
>Devil's Shadow Mutineers

What would it take to add to those to get a decent army? I was thinking Halberdiers and Sylys, with maybe a Nomad kit for magnetizing.

>>47811967
filling out your cutthroats would be good, and getting the Commodore64 for Bart. pMags doesn't need sylys because his upkeeps are mostly jack focused and he upkeeps his battlegroup (himself included) for free anyway. Halbies are fine but a little lackluster, maybe consider kayazy assassins instead (though i will confess i don't know how they fared in mk3). Mags will want more jacks, and bart will want more ranged jacks.

>>47806416

Zaal2 is probably also very good honestly. He only got better in the new edition really.

Zaal1 is still as good as he was before. I personally think Xerxis1 and maybe Hexxy2 will be good as well.

Right now Xerxis2, Hexxy1 and Moghoul2 are the worst off.

Makeda1 and 2 both seem fine to me. They are just very different than before. I just wish Makeda1's feat was better.

>>47812265
Makeda1 is on the lower end of the Skorne Spectrum. Makeda2 is likely fine.

Yesterday I didn't have access to the Partisan cards in my Ret deck since I dont own the Merc deck, but now I do. Neat.

>>47812265

What improved about Zaal2? I've seen people say this but I'm not familiar enough to see it for myself.

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>tfw buying the merc deck just for rhupert
menite bros WW@?

>>47812413
Immortals and Ancestral Guardians gained souls. His thing was that he liked collecting friendly faction souls, but his feat wanted Immortals and AGs to get the most out of it, which didn't have Soul Vessel last edition.

>>47812463

A shame about Hakaar not counting as an AG, on this note

>>47812265
>Zaal1 is still as good as he was before.

Losing hot-swapping Last Stand with Marketh is a nerf that has to be worked around. Hakaar's less attuned to him too. They really want you to take warbeasts in this edition.

>>47812366

Again, I think Makeda1 is probably better than people are giving her credit for. She just plays a different game now.

Time will tell though.

Also, on a side note, Naaresh seems like he has a bit of potential. New Lamentation is actually super annoying vs anyone who likes to upkeep spells (which is a lot of casters). It lets him bring it to bear without having to put himself in immediate risk. Also, his ability to heal after being whipped up to a decent arm, heal a bit and be kind of tough to assassinate at Def 15 Arm 20 base and transfers. That way he can actually push forward a bit with Lamentation and not be a sitting duck.

His ability to basically get "free" upkeeps through Blood Trade and Hyper Regen is also kind of nice though I would probably always run him with Despoiler now, because, why not?

>>47812524
He does have Soul Vessel now.

>>47806297

Primary setup will be three jacks in a triangle base-to-base pointing away from at least one monitor, with Fortify on the jack in the back. Set up this way, if the monitor is more than 5.2" away from the front line of the two front jacks, it cannot move to get in line of sight of the one in the back. Requires at least 9" to get the same effect (cannot move to get LoS behind the front jack) for Iron Mother.

That's the minimal setup, at least, flanking jacks can make the LoS harder for Mother or the Monitors and be in position so they'd bump into one of the front jacks and be basically impossible pull targets from PA with Enliven up (as they can enliven behind one of the push-immune jacks).

The difficult part is cycling out jacks while moving forward, which drastically reduces advancement speed, but I only need to do it for two rounds.

I'll have to calculate the range PA would have to be in against a T-formation of jacks to be able to pull one of the side jacks, but I don't think it's going to be much outside of melee range.

Yay trigonometry.

>>47812524

I get the feeling that might change. Despite that though, Zaal2's feat specifies "constructs" not AG's or anything like that.

>>47812463

Also, on an interesting note, Direct Spirits now has no stipulations for "eligible models" and whatnot. As written, it basically lets you take any soul in his Control and give it to any model in his control regardless of eithers position.

Cross your fingers that it isn't a typo.

>>47812704

OH! And Vision is straight better now. You can choose what attack you ignore.

Seriously, Zaal2 is all around better.after only loosing the Boosted Melee Attack rolls for Constructs on his feat (made up for with more souls from constructs).

>>47812702
And actually I'm over-complicating that, because any jack enlivened near the Fortify target can enliven in B2B with it and the push fails, so the PA isn't going to be pulling much in this matchup (not to say the *threat* doesn't significantly reduce maximal threat range while safe, though).

>>47812530

>They really want you to take warbeasts in this edition.

I think this is the opposite of true honestly.

They went through and nerfed almost all of the beasts and tried to buff some of the Hordes infantry options. Unlike jacks which seem to have gotten straight better overall, most beasts got a downgrade one way or another (except the Ravagore honestly). Not to mention the loss of a lot of beast support like fury management nerfs and Skorne loosing free charges.

I actually think the purpose in the Hordes rework is to try and force more "balanced" style lists where Hordes armies like Skorne, Circle and Legion take more infantry than they used to and Warmachine takes moire jacks than they used to (considering the amount of Warmachine infantry that got slight nerfs).

To varying degrees of success of course.

>>47812870

Clarifiction, then- in the case of the Skorne caster for whom in mk2 the primary list construction challenge was wasting as few points on warbeasts as possible (8 and 9 were popular!), all impacting changes are towards the end of making warbeasts required to a substantial degree, specifically by making damage no longer transferable to Ancestral Guardians, reducing the number of solos or units that can benefit from Last Stand in a turn, and making Hakaar less lucrative through no longer spawning a kovaas or benefiting from Soul Converter.

You couldn't do it better if you started out with a whiteboard that had "make them start taking warbeasts with this guy" as a project goal. Fuck, that probably actually happened.

Out of curiousity, what kind of lists would you guys run for the Zaals in 3e?

>>47813485

Yeah, they ruined zaal, we know.

for literally every other skorne caster except the other zaal warbeasts were better already and now we will see less of them.

its like they took makeda2 and had a whiteboard that said "Make them take less beasts with this girl" as a project goal

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PGs getting salty and bitching about Skorne is hilarious. Not even they can justify how terrible the faction is now

>>47813807

Not sure what it matters what PGs say. They're not actually staff or anything.

>>47813485

To be fair, I think that is still fitting with the "get people to make more balanced lists" idea.

As for Hakaar, part of me really thinks that he will be changed to be an AG. Otherwise, all of what you said is definitely true.

The Last Stand/Marketh change is maybe the most damaging change for a lot of Skorne casters but specifically for Zaal1.

I think he'll be fine overall though. Maybe he'll get a cool character beast soon. We are supposed to have a character beast on the way in the next book.

>>47813705

Pretty much the same as 2e; Zaal1 put the warbeast tax into something heavy. Maybe Cannoneers. Zaal2, just get used to having not as good board position. Themes will be showing up in 6 months anyway if it doesn't pan out just now.

>>47813880
PG are the first among consumers. They work hard a deserve our respect and their exclusive models

>>47813920

Sure. Doesn't make their opinion any more informed or accurate than any other consumer.

>>47813912
>"get people to make more balanced lists"
I personally find this idea fucking dumb for casters like Zaal. He's THE Stone guy. You fluffed that he fucks rocks, snorts rocks, shits on rocks, eats rocks, and buffs rocks and you build a spell list and abilities that lets him breathe rock then go back on it?

>>47813920
>exclusive models
I wish we got exclusive models.

>>47813915

Interesting side note. AG's and Immortal UA's can now get souls from stuff even if it dies from your own attacks.

So if you need the +2 Movement or +2 Def for Immortals, you can sack a few for their souls.

Cute trick.

>>47811658
goddamn you are a whiny bitch if you think rhulic jacks aren't good

>>47813807
>>47813880
>>47813920

I'm new to the hobby, what are PGs?

>>47814040

Press Gangers, the community leaders who serve as a go-between with Privateer Press to organize local events and such

>>47813956

Eh, Zaal2 having an extra heavy is not going to kill him and now Constructs give him souls, not making him only able to use half his fucking kit in any game depending on which way you built your list.

Zaal1 is in a similar boat as Cryx casters who don;t really want jacks. At least he can still take dudes like Tiberion to put his Arm buff on.

What retribution caster should I run at the club tonight lads? Make me a list, I have everything not mounted or on a huge base.

Blood of Kings anyone?

>>47814068

Garryth with Moros

>>47814068

You got the Battle Box chick? She looks really fucking good and I would love to hear how she does in a game.

Failing that, old BB babe Kaelyssa. Always loved her and she looks so sweet now.

>>47814111
I've played against her, and my friend's been running her a bunch recently.
She's really good.
Ret ARM skew is pretty bonkers.

>>47814102
fuck Moros

>>47814111
Kae it is. Now I need to pick the heavies she wants.

>>47813966
Gorman di sea wulf never forget
if you didn't get one you never will because the PGs forced them to destroy the mold

>>47814233
They destroyed the mold without our input. No one wanted them to do that and it sucks.

Would Rahn/Ossyan/Garryth/Thryon/Helynna be a good Ret caster roster to but into?

>>47814264
Pick 3, learn them then add more. Don't try and learn 5 casters at once.

>>47809469
>be me, play both warmahordes and 40k
>play Khador and Orks
>Mk2 Khador could still pull off a hail-mary assassination win or brick up against lists
>Orks just lose to everyone all the time

I never really min-max lists. With Warmachine I feel like I at least stood a chance, in 40k if someone min-maxxed a list or even did mild theory crafting they shit all over the best I can offer.

>>47813880
We're supposed to be the guys that help new players and help them get started. A lot of PGs can't get over how shitty Skorne is and are saying they can't in good conscience recommend anything about the about the faction.

These people are morons but this is what makes it funny. PGs hating the faction so much they refuse to recommend it is just madness

>>47813920
Eh... I don't know about that anon. We're just cool dudes

>>47814040
We're the nice guys who taught you how to play, walked you through faction choices and let you when a few games. Then once the training wheels were off beat the shit out of you. We're you're friendly event organizers, we have give out cool prizes and are easily identified by our cool shirts, pins and coins

>>47814407
You're also the assholes who claim they run demos they don't to get free stuff and then don't set up any events and slack off on the forums all day.

Real experience I had many years ago.

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>>47814425
Then your PG sucks and should probably get booted. All of the actual active PGs are usually nothing like this

Sorry anon, people suck sometimes. Maybe try doing something about it?

>>47814522
It was years back but I don't like people like you who blow smoke up their own assholes. Say what you are, you're an unpaid volunteer who gets given free shit occasionally for running tutorials for people.

>>47814264

>good tier
Ossyan
Helynna

>meh tier
Rahn

>tough tier
Garryth
Thryon

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>>47814587
Well yeah, duh. That doesn't make the guys who run tournaments and leagues for you any less cool for doing it.

>>47814594
Rahn isn't meh. He's incredibly powerful with placement which is one of the strongest abilities in the game.

>>47814618
I've met incredibly shitty tournament organisers. They couldn't tell their arse from their elbow and weren't that interested. I've also been a tournament organiser. The point is to tell the guy what you actually are. You're a shill for the game, now he knows what you do and why you do it and isn't under some impression that you're magical faggots who shit faction coins.

>>47814639

And the likelihood of fewer colossals on the board in favor of more jacks means his abilities are less likely to be hard countered.

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>>47814594


>meh tier: Rahn

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>>47814639
That's a pretty harsh outlook on guys who work basically for free. I don't know if you've ever organized a 40+ tournament before but it ain't a cake walk dude.

Be nice to your EOs, they put up with a lot of jerks to make sure you have fun stuff to do and events to play in. No need to be an ass about it

>>47814700
I can see why you're a press ganger now, you drank the kool aid and can't make a fair judgement on people. You simply want to be "the cool guy" because you put names into a lap top and it told you what to write down.

I've done it retard, a national tournament with paid entry. I know my shit.

>>47813807
I heard a lot of PGs were fired over the weekend

So, how do i go about becoming better at the game?

my autistic tryharding doesn't get me many wins right now because im pretty new.

>>47813807
>they had to close the thread
hahaha

>>47813807
>>47814807
someone want to recap it for me since i dont use the forums?

>>47814753
Man, you're really butt devastated over this. It's just a volunteer gig dude, it's not a huge deal. PGs are just cool guys who run events man, not something that's worth getting so worked up for. Usually it's pretty laid back, other times it's a shit ton of work.

Relax, you're not hot shit either. It's just a game

>>47814762
Not sure what you mean. Nothing like that has happened so probably just a rumor. Only thing going on is people bitching about new stuff.

>>47814816
A thread in the press gang forum about dealing with community disappointment turned into a few press gangers bitching about skorne being shitty and the others telling them that they need to remain positive because that's why they're press gangers

>>47814837
Is that why we have the PGIDF up there trying to paint them as the coolest people around?

>>47814125
Let me guess, Discordia + Artificer + Sentinels marching in lockstep?

>>47814850
I'm a press ganger, we're not any different than any other people. We get salty and grumpy about changes too. And yeah, lots of us report fake events just for free stuff.
We're absolutely not cool unless you meet us and deem us cool.

>>47814850
PGs are just regular people who do volunteer stuff. We're allowed to think stuff is bad or whatever, it's just funny when everyone gets pissed about how bad a faction is.

>>47814867
>And yeah, lots of us report fake events just for free stuff.
You're not supposed to spill the beans anon!

>>47814798
Just play more.

Honestly, if you're trying to be *good*, run a netlist for your faction and learn to play it, then modify it to your needs, don't start with crap and try to make it work.

>>47814407
I mean, I wish someone had talked me out of getting into beastmen when I started whfb. I don't really see what the problem with steering people away from a faction if its underpowered/terrible.

I have a lot of fun with the beastmen, but it does suck to have limited options or crap when everyone else has a shiny.

That being said, most PGs I know are dogshit at the game. One of them in my area told me that bane knights and helldivers are 'fucking terrible (circa mkii).'

>>47814863
List was something like
Hylena
Disco Stu
Imperatus
2x Manticode
Chimera
3x Arcanist
Max Sents + UA
Mittens

Maybe some other bits and pieces, I forget.
Irusk2 played pretty well into it, but damn that ARM was hard to crack.

>>47814896
It's more of the telling PP that something is dogshit and that they don't won't do demos for the faction or are deliberately turning people away from it.

That's hilarious

>>47814875
Look mate, if you're going to do the whole PPIDF thing and try to brownnose people int his community just do us the one thing we want. We want you to go tell Jason Sole he looks like a faggot. Nothing else you can do here will matter, but that one thing is what we as a community deserve.

>>47814896
If a new player came up to me while doing a demo, and said "hey, I'm going to pick up skorne, is that a good idea?" as a press ganger I would say, "Skorne is in a bit of an iffy space right now, they've got some okay options but the general opinion of them is that they're very weak right now. That may just be the initial shock of what happened to them with an edition change, but it may not be. We can only really see in time." Then I'd see why they wanted skorne, and potentially guide them into options they might have more fun with.

Also yes, most PGs are pretty trash. I don't play competitively but I do keep an eye on my tournament's results.

>>47814926
Everyone thinks this, it doesn't matter if you're a PG or not. The dude is... Weird. Anyway, hope you don't really think I'm going ppidf on you, I just said be nice to your EOs. Just because I get stuff from them doesn't mean i suck the PP cock. They fuck up, all the time.

>>47814934
>PGs are pretty trash
It's because we're always passing up games for the other guys. Thankfully I free been able to avoid that for a while now.

I like to organize groups of guys to go to other metas, wreck their stores and take all their prize support. Nothing like the salt of an entire store after you and all your guy's place in a big event

>>47804533
Overheard some guy at my local saying now was a good time to jump onto this shark, is something big happening now?

Never wargamed before but I've cut back pretty big on magic and this seems interesting.

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>>47814009
Not him, but you're talking about spd 4 warjacks without reach (aside from colossal, ofc). In the game where those who charges first usually wins. In the game with pre measurements. And only one warcaster can speed-up one (two) 'jack in non-feat turn.
Maybe I'm missing something? Why do you think their 'jacks are good?

>>47815243
You maybe better off getting into Malifaux. Tell us what you're looking for in a tabletop game and we can point you towards the one for you

>>47815243
It's a "new edition time", so this can be a good time to start if you was interested in warmahordes before. Better choice - try 1or 2 games in warmahordes (15 or 25 points) and malifaux (as >>47815282 recommended). Preferably with someone's armies, not with proxy. And you'll see what you like more

>>47815282
Well I like the mechs so if Malifaux has those I'd be interested. My only real interest was that the models looked cool and pitting armies against another person sounds like it might be fun.

Is Warmachine dying or something?

>>47815243
>>47815311
Depends on his local meta. They might not play Malifaux there. Malifaux is a good game, Warmahordes is a good game, Infinity looks complicated as fuck but I hear it's good, Guild Ball is a good game.
Warmachine is entering a new edition so it may be easier for new players to get into it, and they won't even feel the shock of all the models in the game getting nerfed from the previous edition.
That said, the game didn't change a massive amount from the old edition, so experienced players will still stomp you - warmachine has a pretty high learning curve (simple game to learn, but there's so many models and such that it makes it difficult to play.)
>>47815344
If you like mechs, the new edition puts a focus on playing more of the warjacks, so that's a plus.

>>47814798
Get Vassal and play a few games against yourself. Use different casters and factions and consider stuff from their point of view.

>>47815261
Nothing wrong with the avalancher, the lights or the colossal. Even the driller can work if you put it in the center where it can't be avoided, or if you sacrifice a light to set up an exchange.
Also heard there was this thing where you can drag all of their jacks 8'' towards you.

>>47814798
Just play tons of games. At least two 75 point games a week if possible and you'll get there eventually. Check out what people playing your faction are winning with and ignore whatever the forums are saying

>>47815347
Any main things getting nerfed? I'd hate to buy into unplayable stuff nerfed to trash.

>>47815458
It's basically the wild west out there, you can play whatever you want. Just avoid Skorne and you'll be golden

>>47808262

WHAC has all the card info too.

>>47809469
>warmahordes is no fun
Is a shitty opinion spread by 40kids to whom the definition of fun is "just put some shit on the table and roll dice". WMH just isn't that kind of game, but it sure as hell is fun.

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Someone have a mk3 khador cards pic? :C

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>>47815500
Yeah no, this game is pretty shit and the community is all tourneyfags. New edition is really only making this worse

>>47815416
>ignore whatever the forums are saying

Underrated advice. The official forums are worse at this game than /tg/.

Let that sink in

>>47815555
>citation needed

>>47815555
I tried 40k, whfb, malifaux, infinity and warmahordes. Now I play mostly malifaux and warmahordes. I do like this systems more after all. Interesting enough, at my location all tourneyfags are gathered into 40k. And in another closest meta there are a ton of waac players in malifaux (which I find rather strange).
So while you don't like it, your opinion is just that - an opinion. Like mine, or any other anon in this thread.

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>>47815555
40k in nutshell + more salt

>>47815381
Lights are good, no objections.
Earthbreaker is probably not bad too.

But Avalancher is spd 4 no-reach heavy with ps 15. But that's even not the main problem. Avalancher costs 17 points. For comparison, other factions can take Defender (16 pts), or Reckoner (16, do they still good? I don't know), or Nightmare (18, or Inflictor for 13), etc

> Also heard there was this thing where you can drag all of their jacks 8'' towards you.
Once per game, enemy models in CTRL area of the caster with Focus 5 (so with 10" ctrl).

>>47811495
Those two knights are in love.

Is there too many fucking gunlines in mk3 or is it just me? Every goddamn list pairing i run into gunline gunline gunline

>>47814233
Wait, what is the Gorman di Sea Wulf? I see some pictures on Google, but it's a convention exclusive mini that's never available again?

>>47815832
it's mini delivered to PGs from PP as thank you gift

>>47815832
It's a model that press gangers got a year or two ago that they'll never make again. It's just a Gorman resculpt.

>>47815806
Yup, 2016 is gonna be the year of gunlines due to premeasuring and the new scenarios.

You know shit is bad when I'm considering Kossites to suicide rush to gum up the guns

What's a good eHaley list in mk3?

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>>47815897
>2016 is gonna be the year of gunlines
And Targ!

>>47812607
>She just plays a different game now.
It's called the shelf game.

>>47811495
>like GW has at Warhammer World in London?

Almost certainly not, because Warhammer World isn't in London.

>>47813912
>>47813956
>Zaal1
Might end up liking the Savage a lot. It can be bought for warbeast points and can make an okay (and silly fast) missle with last stand.

>>47816062

Makeda1 has a really interesting positioning game.

Too far away on the shelf, and you forget you have her and go out and buy her to try and make her work, too close on the shelf and you're reminded of how awful she is and how much PP screwed skorne

its about finding that sweet spot right in the middle

>>47815487
I't still out-dated. Though whacAdmin estimates the update to hit around end of the month, so on time for the official release of mk3.

The cool new feature: An online card editor. Makes editing (and importing) card data much easier and should massively reduce errors in the card data.

>>47815806
Gunline is definitely a list archetype you'll be seeing a lot in the near future. You should probably include a list in your pairing that can deal with it. Something like pStryker, pGoreshade or Makeda3.

>>47816173
How exactly pGoreshade counter gunlines?
Shadowmancer is command range (so 7"), nor control. And stealth doesn't seems like a good protection.

>>47816180
7" is enough, as most women will tell you. Stealth is good against everything except for Sloan. And against her you have another very great advantage: Speed. Your jacks will have to endure 1 round of shooting before being able to engage and after that her list does nothing. That one round will not remove ~6-8 heavies, maybe 2-3.

Alternatively, you can have a look at Stalkers. They can easily engage her stuff bottom-of-1/top-of-2.

>>47806676

This basically. People gets confused about playing competitive, and not allowing fun to enter the game.
For our group, we play competitive AND have fun at the same time. See, when you remove all the non written "moral" rules, that exists so much in 40k its crazy ("you can play what you want, but then your a dick and no one will play you... I'm just telling you this because I'm such a good sport"), your all playing on the same page so to speak.
When everything is a-ok to play with, you have the same boundaries, and you get to play Warmahordes the way it was always meant to be played, as a Tournament game.

>>47804910

Its not that I don't care for people who change their shit up, trying to adapt to new tactics. Its the guys who with total lack of self respect and morale that "claims" they play list-A, because it fits their play style, they like the models and love the fluff, and wont touch anything from list-B. Then when mk3 hits the shelves, all of a sudden the models, fluff and play style from list-B is the shit, and "they always loved those things, thank God they now are playable".

Bullshit like this triggers the fuck out of me. Why not just be honest and say "hey, I don't play this unit, because the rules sucks", or "I hate these models, I never read the fluff, but the rules for this unit is fucking awesome, so I play them".

>>47816264
Because
>>47816219

Wargaming has a lot of failures in it. They're looking to TELL A STORY not play the actual game. They won't admit they power game the shit out of things because then they might come off as "cheesy" and will be excluded fom the group.

It's one of GW's many legacies in the hobby. White dwarf would constantly harp on about being beardy or cheesy and how it was a shitty thing to be. It gave them a fine excuse for their rules failings and put the responsibility on any one but themselves.

Legion player here. I keep finding myself putting a Beast Mistress in my list to herd some lessers. Am I being a shitter or is this cool?

>>47816440

in my opinion it's not worth it, but I wouldn't call you a shitter for trying it

>>47812607
>I would probably always run him with Despoiler now, because, why not?
Because you don't get to poop out Void Spirits unless you're using Mordikaar?

>>47805575
A whole lot of people are glossing over the fact that they gained Ghostly which makes them immune to freestrikes and gives pathfinder.

Outside of that, they really aren't that different.
Here is what is different about the Officer.
"TACTICS: RISE – Models in this unit gain Rise. (If a model with Rise
is knocked down at the beginning of your Maintenance Phase, it
stands up.)
VOID BRINGER – This model can use Void Bringer once per game at
any time during its unit’s activation. This activation, when a model in
this unit boxes a living enemy warrior model with an attack, add one
Grunt to the unit and remove the boxed model from play. The Grunt
must be placed in formation and completely within 3˝ of the attacking
model. The Grunt cannot activate this turn."

Standard Bearer just gives +2 CMD to the leader.

It is true they lose out on Tough from the Standard, but anything that gives them Tough let's them still be pretty dumb with Rise. Terminus' CMD range granted Tough, as an example.

>>47815897
I really hope that the game devolves into gunlines because I can see that being what Skorne does best against. You want to bring your entire unit forwards in a line? Sweet, I only need to deliver 3-4 Nihilators to wipe you out. And my Krea's bubble just got bigger too. Not to mention that I can get to you faster while defending against ranged attacks with a single spell when using Makeda1

>>47815540
Do a search on the page for dropbox.

>>47816645
> glossing over the fact that they gained Ghostly
It's because there are many ways to get Ghostly or Pathfinder in Cryx. But Stealth? Not so much. Though spd 5 is bigger problem.

>>47816717
4 casters have Occultation.
Shade 2
Shade 3
Sturgis
Coven

4 casters have Ghost Walk or a way to provide Ghostly to a non-warjack.
Denny3
Lich2
Coven
Denny1

>>47816759
Warcasters with Occultation usually place it on themselves.
Ghostly can be casted with skarlock, Occultation - no. Ofc you can upkeep Occultation, but you don't need Ghostly every turn, so that's ok

And any caster can take Saxon to get Pathfinder. But there are no solo you can take to get Stealth.

>>47816799
Coven can't all benefit from stealth unless bsb with the beach ball. Beach ball has it by default.
Ok, it's narrowed down that Coven is probably the best caster(s) to bring with Bane Warriors because they can afford to not cast it on themselves.

>>47816842
Yep, also their feat is a good protection for the whole army.

>>47816440
That is literally the entire point of the beast mistress. Why would you be a shitter for it?

How strong were the barbarians in the Thousand Cities Era compared to the Iron Kingdoms era?

>>47816909

he was asking if she's worth using or not

>>47815688


>once per game


How many times are you assuming you'll have to alpha strike?

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>>47804533

>>47817099
Enemy models to be pushed should be in 10" from your warcaster (who, btw, have spd 4 too).
How many models you'll be able to catch? How far up field should your warcaster be on the turn before "alpha" and after?

>>47817156


It's a 14" threat range from where gorten starts the turn, further than most things could have charged him. Whatever you drag in should be absolutely dead or useless by the end of your turn


Gorten has issues, his feat was never one of them.

>>47815688
You're looking at the Avalancher from the wrong angle, it's an ARM21 heavy with a 12" AOE4 quake gun, Shield Guard, and Sturdy. It's a fine package that is going to put the opponent's stuff on it's ass very reliably and provide a great protector for your caster or solos, especially when you take into account the buffs Ossrum and Durgen bring for it.

It's not designed to punch heavies (though under Gorten's SoG spell it certainly can), that's what the 10pt drillers are for.

As for SPD4 heavies, Ossrum provides 5 extra inches and Pathfinder on his feat turn with Feat+Energizer, oh and +3str so they'll murderfuck whatever you put them on.

>>47816974
?

You mean the Orgoth?

>>47817268
No. Tharn, trollbloods and co

>>47817290
Probably weaker since the Orgoth set up breeding programs and stuff for stronger slaves iirc.

They don't even get magic before the Orgoth arrival.

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Looking to start with MK3. Pic related looks cool and afraid of nothing. Would the new starter set be a good purchas along with her? Are Longgunners any good? They seem to be right up her alley.

>>47817446

That caster is Kara Sloan, shes a pretty good place to start :^)

just be prepared for the salt mines of non cygnar players

>>47817446
Longgunners and the starter box are both bad for Sloan, all she cares about is having a bunch of good ranged warjacks. You're looking at Hunters, Defenders, Avengers, maybe Reliants, maybe a Sentinel for a cheap shield guard. If she's gonna take infantry it'll probably be Trenchers because they can be a relatively annoying speedbump and put in some anti-infantry work without needing caster support.

>>47817446
>Looking to start with MK3. Pic related looks cool and afraid of nothing.
Good, welcome to he game.
>Would the new starter set be a good purchas along with her?
The starter set is a good investment in its own right. If only for learning the game.
>Are Longgunners any good? They seem to be right up her alley.
I'd say they're good, but not with Sloan. Sloan wants a shooty battlegroup (= her + her warjacks), but you can't consistently win with shooting alone. Therefor I would rather take some melee troops with her to clear enemy jam, block charge lanes, hold zones and smash damaged heavy warjacks. I'd say Trenchers could be really good for that. They're excellent all-round infantry and you will probably want them in >50% of your lists anyway.

>>47817524
>>47817531
Ah got you. Guess I'll be looking into the 'jacks you mentioned along with Trencher. I haven't been looking at any stats, just at the Gallery on the PP homepage so sorry if my questions was nonsensical. How important are solos? Lieutenant Allison Jakes and Captain Maxwell Finn seem pretty rad.

>>47817498
Is she OP? Really don't want to be that guy who starts out with the strongest option there is.

>>47817585
Not OP, but very very good. People are just salty because cygnar seems to be in a very good place, Sloan in particular, and she is geared towards a play style people find frustrating.

But I first started with a similar caster (Mk 2 Lylyth2), and people made jokes about it, but I just embraced them and refused to play anything else for a long time.

>>47817585
> Is she OP?
Time will show

>>47817585
>How important are solos?
Like most things in Warmachine, it varies wildly depending on the caster and list. Sloan really doesn't care about solos, she might take a Gun Mage Captain Adept because he's fucking amazing, and Reinholdt (merc solo) for an extra shot with her rifle, but aside from that she'll probably go without.

>>47817585

>Is she OP? Really don't want to be that guy who starts out with the strongest option there is.

Nah. Sloan's thing is she doesn't like to play your game. She likes to take your game and kick it in the balls until you play her game.

Sloane likes to run gunlines of jacks. She's very good at it now and a lot of her advantages are how she pulls enemies who try to rely on anti-ranged tech apart.

The primary anti-ranged abilities in the game are Stealth and clouds. They prevent people shooting you from more than barely short of melee range and create walls you can't see through respectively. Sloan and her entire battlegroup just flat ignore them.

She's still very vulnerable to 'Someone got up in my face and started stabbing' but people who expected a safe advance are likely to get shot in the face a lot.

Gunmages are always a good pickup for Cygnar. Less so for Sloan than others but no one dislikes gunmages.

>>47817637
>She's still very vulnerable to 'Someone got up in my face and started stabbing'
I don't think she actually is, because 99% of the time it'll never reach that stage. She brings such a volume of high-quality attacks that basically never miss that getting in her face is all but impossible.

>>47817635
I'll have a look at the Adept and the Merc stuff. Didn't even know I was allowed to recruit those, although it makes sense considering they aer mercenaries.

>>47817623
>>47817625
>>47817637
Alrighty thanks guys! I suppose a very shooty army could be frustrating. Guess I am a Warmachines Tau player then.

I have to say as far as generals go the Warmachine one seems to be pretty helpful.

>>47816645
Bane thralls went from one of the most powerful units to shit.
Bane knights didn't get hit so hard after all.

What about satyxis raiders?
Or their especially fragile (13/13) cousins bloodwyches?

>>47817585
>Is she OP?
Not really. She can skew really well, but I think overall she will be stronger (and more fun to play) with a balanced list.

>>47817585
>Lieutenant Allison Jakes and Captain Maxwell Finn seem pretty rad.
They serve very different purposes. But that is a general thing, solos usually serve very specific purposes and are thus taken whenever you need somethin that does exactly that. For example, if you want Pathfinder (the ability to ignore terrain) in your list, you'll include Rhupert Carvolo. Now, Finn is an absolute killer. He takes infantry and makes them go away. He also makes Trenchers more accurate, so if you're taking them you should also consider him. Jakes' purpose is rather easily described: Do you want to take another Heavy Warjack without worrying about Focus? Then give it to Jakes.

>>47816367
I don't exactly agree, well, not in the same way.
bearded cheese was never an excuse for bad rules.
No. Bad rules were and still are a fact. There is no excuse for that.

However bearded cheese is about the players themselves who will stop at nothing to create the list that fistfucks all the loopholes in order to win at all costs (WAAC)
and that is shit. That is a negative play experience.

We get those in warmachine too, hiding behind p5 "the rules say i can do it, a-and and the ruels say i have to play to crush all my enemies!"

fucking douchebags.
Notice in mk3 (it isn't mk3 this is mk2 remix if anything) how do you resolve rules disputes? Roll a fucking d6. just like in warham.

>>47817585

Allison Jakes also has a huge advantage of being EXTREMELY cute in her picture. Not many warcasters can attest to that.

What second faction should I get into starting mk3?

I own all of Legion, and while it still seems very good, it doesn't seem like much has changed, so I think it is time to start something fresh.

>>47817805

if you want something radically different, you could try Khador or Retribution

>>47817779
>The difference is there shouldn't BE rules disputes, because the rules are clear in almost all cases, most disputes just be someone being wrong and stupid. The d6 thing is for when you've got a pair of retards in a garage who are too stupid to read a book or use the internet correctly.

>>47817779
If anyone actually tries to roll a d6 to solve a rule problem they probably need a swift kick in the dick, with incredibly rare exceptions there aren't ambiguous rules in Warmachine.

heard a rumor about something called 'Magnus the Just' and 'Azrael'. Apparently Mags3 and a new legion light character.

Also can anyone summarize the Prime/Primal Fluff heard Goreshade is almost definitely coming back to Scyrah

>>47814594
Ossyan, Rahn and Helynna are all good casters.

Garryth still a a shit.

Thyron is much harder to use than the top three but not flat out bad like Garryth. Still, he has no business being medium based IMO. PP should have given him his storm rager stats as standard and replaced that spell with something else.

>>47817820
Both of those are on my list of potentials, honestly. I'd probably prefer warmachine, just to give the other system a shit, but I know I definitely don't want Skorne, Trolls or Menoth (the latter just because I have 2 friends who play that I could potentially borrow from)

>>47817850


>Magnus the Just

Yessss

I'll also take "Magnus the Patriot" or "Magnus the Right"

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>pew pew

/wmhg/, I have an odd question.

How big are Legion light beast models size-wise? I want to get some to use as 6mm kaiju and was wondering how big, say, a Raek was.

>>47817937
>Magnus the did nothing wrong

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>>47817942


>fiona
>no commodore

>>47817942
Take out Boomhowlers and deck guns, put in press gangers, commodore cannon and Rockbottom. Better shooting and cultists for upkeeps.

>>47817937
Isn't Magnus the Just that cancerous forumite?

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>>47817955


I don't have a Raek but a gorax could be a decent kaiju...

These guys are 10mm btw, so not too bad

>>47818004


Yeah.

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>>47817988
>Take out Boomhowlers and deck guns, put in press gangers, commodore cannon and Rockbottom. Better shooting and cultists for upkeeps.

>>47818009
That looks a good sort of size, excellent.

Now to buy many, many light warbeasts

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>>47817955
I was trying to find a decent size comparison for you, but ended up finding a Thai website where they're apparently selling statues of Old Ones.

>>47818039
Metal Gorax best Gorax. The plastic one has an awful mold like along the top of his fur ruff under his hands that's a bitch and a half to get at.

Also don't forget that at one time PP sold actual Kaiju models! Monsterpocalypse was a thing.

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>>47817955
Sorry about the shit image quality.

Raek is about 35mm tall not including spikes. Legion heavy chassis (ravagore, carnivean, scythean) is about 65mm to the shoulders

>>47818087
>>47818073
I have only the mechs from MonPoc, nothing for them to fight. These look the perfect size.

>>47818331


I legit think Official PP rules for using warbeasts as kaijus in Monsterpocalyse would have actually revitalized the game

>>47818389
Maybe now Voltron is back on Netflix (and a) is good and b) has chocolate elves) PP will get off their ass and revive the game through that license

>>47818415


Tbh I wonder if Epic Warmachine might actually work as a new revenue stream rather than that disaster called high command.

>>47805114
Bane Knights are a far better unit now and were in MKII.
Only Cryx noobs and noobs in general thought Bane Thralls were broken and better than Knights.

>>47818451
I'd play epic Warmachine in a heartbeat, expecially if they went 10mm.

I already converted up some Dire Trolls for my buddy's warmaster orc army using some Pyg Bushwacker heads and the old Malifaux Molemen.

>>47805959
Except speed. They are in almost every case a worse pick than Bane Knights.
He done goofed.
He will also never want to have two of them because they are simply too slow for that. One unit, without the UA (which is kind of crap really) is the way to go when expecting lots of jacks.

>>47818616
You're literally retarded

>>47817729
They got perma stealth so they aren't squishy to most guns. They get incorp from kills, they are still really good.
Raiders are better versus dudes, worse versus jacks.
I'll still take them in literally every list.

>>47818700
And you can't play Cryx and whine about units in which you sank 17 points that have a very specific role.

>>47817729
I think blood witcges are one of our best units. They have stealth wich is very valuable this edition.

Im not sold on the raiders, I think they are garbage town. Its really easy to scalple out the sea witch and loose a lot of effectivness

>>47817850
Another legion model?not that i complain lol

>>47818925
They have gang, which is really important with the loss of buffs to dmg on pSkarre. Speed 7, reach, gang, overtage/pathfinder is a strong offense. They aren't as good, but they are nowhere near garbage tier.

>>47818700
Idk, they're expensive, need support and slow as fuck. They do hit like a truck, but you only get like 4 of them there.

Honestly, if they had kept tough and maybe traded rise for no knock down, I would still consider them in some lists. Although stealth is looking to be much more valuable this edition

>>47818994
Gang is great. Accuracy is always good and it is just a better rule than CMA.

Again, I would be happy if they're prayers were on the unit leader, or if they just had pathfinder inately

>>47819057
I think that a min unit as a 3rd one is fine. You get Satyxis Raiders and Bane Knights to be the first wave, them as cleanup. They are now quite independent and taking 6 for 10 points is a decent choice.
Or at least that's how I rationalize the fact that PP fucked up all the lists I used to run with my favourite casters and made jacks I don't have a must have.