![Redwall-Matthias1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/E3osRUd.jpg "Redwall-Matthias1[1].jpg")
Stat me, /tg/.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0Ski8gn.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>47788007
What was it with Jacques and food?
Pages upon pages of descriptions of food and feasting.
Anyway, fuck the OP. Mattias is lame. Stat this BAMF instead.
>>47788214
Is that a fucking Squirrel Highlander?
Damn, the Red Wall books got bad ass as they went along.
>>47788214
i feel like the redwall series was just a convoluted excuse for brian jacques to live out his unrealized dream of being a chef.
>>47788247
Badgers are basically war gods.
Rabbits are professional soldiers armed with pikes.
Otters are guerrilla fighters with a penchant for slings.
And squirrels are Scots.
And of course all the "evil" types of animals are various flavors of bandits and warlords.
>Rakkety Rakkety Rakkety Tam,
>the drums are beatin' braw.
>Rakkety Rakkety Rakkety Tam,
>are ye marchin' off tae war?
>A warrior from the borders came,
>a buckler o'er his shoulder,
>a claymore swingin' at his side,
>there's no' a beast who's bolder!
>>47788007
Str: 13
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 16
>>47788214
>What was it with Jacques and food?
>Pages upon pages of descriptions of food and feasting.
Jacques was a storyteller at a school for the blind and that is the audience that Redwall was originally conceived for.
>>47788416
That is an awesome fact I was not aware of.
>>47788416
That is really cool.
>>47788416
That would explain why there's seemingly no sense of scale when it comes to comparing the relative sizes of the various kinda of animals.
>>47788498
Don't know if it was him or not, but I heard a quote that the animals are "however big they need to be."
>>47788355
Badgers have a habit of soloing armies when they really get going. I'm pretty sure that in the entire series the only ways we ever see badgers die are from old age or in a blaze of glory cutting through an entire army to get to and kill their target. If I remember correctly some of them even manage to survive it too.
Rakkety Tam was one of my favorite Redwall books though. Motherfucker 1v1s a goddamn Wolverine and came out on top by beheading him with the sharpened edge of his buckler.
Redwall thread? Hell yes. Loved those books when I was a kid.
Rabbits best warriors
>>47788574
>>47788355
Hares are the badasses, not rabbits.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K8ZH2ct.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>47788574
Long Patrol ftw
>>47788566
These books were much more badass than the PBS series led me to believe.
![a071993d995769bea4f1239e7e3f68c5[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KSAAT5B.jpg "a071993d995769bea4f1239e7e3f68c5[1].jpg")
>>47788566
Thanks for reminding me that this exists.
>>47788629
The books didn't shy away from death and violence. Pretty much every group outside the abbey from the otters to the river shrews are experienced fighters, and Redwall itself is no pushover either. It's pretty much a fortress that just happens to be used as an abbey, and when push comes to shove it's inhabitants can be quite a threat on their own.
>>47788943
I remember during one of the sieges of the abbey (maybe the one with the cat?) where they try to tunnel in and the moles flood it with scalding porridge to drown/boil all the vermin, pretty brutal. That cat also get its head cut off with a shield I think
Not to mention badgers fucking people up all day errday at various point around Salamandastron
pretty sure the excessive feasts were to counterbalance that for kids, which I didn't understand at the time
>>47788214
Ever write hungry?
What fantasy system would be best for playing around with the setting of the Redwall books, anyway?
I loaned my nephew my copies of the books, and he loves them so far, says he's got some of his friends into 'em too, so I was thinking about using the setting to introduce the lot of 'em to RPGs.
>>47792245
isnt the game "mouse gaurd" built around this very concept?
>>47788943
I always got the impression that the various out-groups wer'nt all fighters so much as they contributed fighters with a majority being hunters/farmers/gatherers/etc. but each sub-race training warriors on the odd occasion that they may be needed(because bandits, raiders, slavers, owls, snakes, big fish, etc.) more than just being war-like...
>>47788606
The only rabbits that I could remember were those insipid faggots with their cucumber sandwiches.
>>47792342
Well, yes and no.
Mouseguard is made specifically to play Mouseguard, a comic series which shares some similarities to Redwall in style, but is more about mice dealing with mouse-related threats, in a vaguely human like way. Where Redwall could practically be told with a bunch of humans in the place of all the animals and pretty much nothing would change.
Is it just me, or is Redwall best when there's as little Redwall Abbey as possible?
>>47792757
Not just you.
Personally the abbey serves as a good starting point for a character, but the real action happens when the main character gets outside of it.
Though to be fair, the battle scenes revolving around the abbey tend to be pretty fucking good as well.
>>47788247
That is a highland squirrel fighting a wolverine.
>>47788007
Is that Martin the Fucking Warrior? Jesus fuck, I loved those books.
>>47793098
Naw nigga, that's I Am That Is. Even says on the sword.
>>47791941
That was the first book, Redwall. The rats under Cluny(?) The Scourge tried to tunnel in and got a face full of boiling water in the face. Then they had their tunnel collapsed on them.
Why can I remember details about I book I haven't read in 15 years but I can't remember what I walked to the other room for?
>>47792245
LotR Strategy Battle Game. You have to write your own stats, but for scaling reference a wolf (the nastiest thing mentioned in the books aside from maybe a whale) is akin to a mumak, a mouse a hobbit, and Badgers are War trolls.
>>47788623
>That moment when you realize that book was published 19 years ago.
Damnit I feel old now.
>>47795262
There was a wolf in the books?
Taggerung a best everyone else a shit
>>47795084
It got you invested, anon, and as such got you to make greater effort to commit things to long term memory from it
>>47788707
Jesus. Furries are getting better at making those frikkin' suits.
>>47795328
Came here to say literally this.
>tears apart the whole rodent warband
>sits down and flashes his sword at Redwall while he slowly drops into a coma
>>47795323
There was a fox warlord from the northlands (which are like the chaos wastes from warhammer now that I think about it) whose claim to fame was that he killed a wolf. He wore the pelt / skull and used the claws clad in steel as his weapons. IIRC, he either found it dead and frozen, or found it half dead and half frozen and finished it off. The next nastiest tier in the books were Eagles/Hawks, larger Owls, and at least two lochness monster-esque things that aren't specifically identified. After that it was something of a three way tie between wildcats, badgers, and snakes, Then came Foxes, those iguana things from the pearls of lutra, Otters, and at least one beaver. The next tier down was Ferrets, Stoats, above average Rats, Squirrels, Hares, and Hedgehogs. Second to lowest tier was Mice, Shrews, Moles, Frogs/Toads, Sparrows, and regular rats. Shit tier were pygmy shrews and rabbits, the latter being totally useless due to a crippling fear of everything, and the former for being the tiniest mammal mentioned. Like three could be spit on a spear at the same time without much difficulty.
>>47795543
The pygmy shrews were in that underground cavern with the giant eel and all the elvers, right?
>>47795735
I think they showed up a couple times. I don't remember that one specifically I think, but they show up in Martin the Warrior and are just absolute shit. To the stoats and rats it's like fighting four year olds.
>>47788355
Hares*
And as far as rankings go, Otters are at least tied for second place (with Hares).
>>47795893
Forget his name but I remember that one crazy otter with the sharpened teeth being the most hardcore motherfucker ever.
>>47795543
>shrews
>Second lowest tier
They do tend to take casualties more easily, but they're some of the most viscious little fuckers in the series, and a constistently militant group at that. Their culture has a large emphasis on fucking up anybody they don't like.
I loved the fucking badgers in this world
they were RIP AND TEAR personified
>>47796138
Taggerung? Maybe, I dunno; it's been a while, so my memory's a bit hazy.
...I really ought to go back and reread the series again.
>>47796167
The tiers were based on bodily strength / stature. Martin the Warrior kills a wildcat, Rakkety Tam kills a wolverine. The shrews in the books are good fighters but they are most certainly small of stature and weak of arm compared to most of the other animals in the books. The Hares, for instance, while being less physically capable then the Otters, are a much better fighting force due to their being professional soldiers, and reliably punch above their weight.
>>47796270
Can't remember, I think he might have been a hare actually. All that really sticks out now was that he was an outcast with sharpened or broken teeth and he tore out a dudes throat after getting him in a bear hug. He seemed pretty chill when not dealing with pirates though.
Damn, now I gotta get back to reading every book. I think I stopped after Lord Brocktree, one of those monster badger dudes.
I remember Captain Plugg being a stand-out villain in that he didn't treat his crew like crap, which was rare for Redwall villains. It showed when after he died, his crew fell into depression rather than the usual in-fighting for who was going to be in charge.
I kind of liked the characters who were "evil" races, yet were pretty good people. Come to think of it, Pirate captains tended to be decent, reasonable bosses.
Reminder that Veil did nothing wrong.
>>47796495
Looking through the character list I think it was Cuthbert Blanedale Frunk from High Rhulain.
Who bark crew here?
>>47796495
He was an otter. He didn't just tear out throats, he straight up cooked and ate who he killed. He showed up in one of the later books, Rakkety Tam or Eluila maybe?
>>47792864
I'd say the abbey has a larger purpose than just a starting point. Redwall Abbey is supposed to be Home. The mundane beginnings that you leave behind at the start of your journey and the place you come back to at its end. A place that makes you want to hang up your coat and sit with friends by the fire. A welcoming bubble of peace and normalcy in the world, where life is relaxing and simple. Redwall Abbey is something every good hero needs, a place to protect. A place of friends and allies to push you on and to pull you back as needed. The thing that drives you to go off and do great deeds, and the place you return to when the adventure is done. The abbey is something you strive to defend simply because it and the people who live there are worth protecting.
So the bulk of the adventure may take place outside of the abbey. But when the villain attacks Redwall, that's when you know shit's gotten serious.
I'm still impressed that he managed to include a fucking Hydra, and with a believable explanation too.
>>47797233
Wait, what?
>>47797233
go on...
>>47797255
In one of the books there were three adders that got bound together by a flail and to survive the three snakes learned to move and hunt as one. If memory serves the middle head wore a crown that was important for reasons.
>>47797039
Unfortunately I can`t find a damn thing about him in the wiki.
>>47797255
>>47797305
this guy >>47797328 has it right. They'd gotten tied together when a ball and chain got wrapped around their tails, so they had to work as one to survive.
I liked how they were always preceded by a "sickly-sweet scent," or the scent of rotting, not-quite-dead flesh. Like how the tips of their tails are probably rotting away from lack of circulation...
>Killee Killee Killee!
If you would please, a moment of silence to remember.
Anyone remember this crazy motherfucker? One of the best books in the whole series.
In some universes, anthropomorphic rabbits are quite problematic.
>>47797444
Warbeak was mai waifu.
RIP in pieces :`(
>>47797404
The book was Triss if memory serves.
>>47797541
Can't be, never read that one.
>>47795450
They're actually getting to be pretty cool. These I don't mind seeing at all.
>>47797523
>rabbits
MOTHERFUCKER THEY ARE NOT
FUCKING RABBITS
they are HARES
Has anyone read the Redwall Graphic Novel? I think of all portrayals, it did the best at balancing out the scale between the different species. Mice are are pretty much halflings while Badgers are warhammer Ogre tier. The wildcats, snakes and birds of prey were pretty much monsters, and Martin Slaying the cat was akin to a man slaying a giant
Link to graphic novel http://imgur.com/gallery/5xFw3
>>47796495
The Taggerung in Taggerung is an Otter raised by a vermin warband after being kidnapped in a targetted raid.
>>47797656
True, but Taggerung is a moralfag who leaves the vermin warband because he doesn't want to kill a bitch, so I don't think that's him.
Crap, I sort of remember the guy too, but I can't remember which book he's in.
>>47797656
Na. That guy was cool but this one had the bloodlust.
>>47797701
I think either Martin or Mathias met him on a beach but goddamn if he ain't showing up.
>>47788498
It's a kids book.
Kids don't have autism like you do.
>>47792757
Redwall is a huge deal.
The whole reason it's Red Wall is because there was a huge sandstone wall near where Brian Jacques lived as a kid and he would always go there and imagine the adventures going on behind the wall.
I've been there, pretty nice place.
>>47792245
honestly I'd say modify one of the older versions of D&D(or a OSR/Retroclone game) for this
also while I love the books overall, I think we can agree that killing off the Sparrows in Mattimeo was super lame(honestly it's probably the book in the series I like the least as it feels the most rough in terms of writing)
>>47795543
I think there was a Wolverine in one book as well, also I'm kinda amazed that Redwall(the first book) never got rewritten to remove the stuff that didn't fit the setting in future books like mentions of humans and human nations, or that Beaver(honestly if the horse weren't kinda important for the beginning of the book I'd say remove it as well since it screws with the series' scale more than anything else)
>>47797845
The wolverine was the bad guy of Rakkety Tam.
>>47797845
Yep, Kuno the Savage was a Wolverine, and every bit as viscous as you'd expect. Not to mention that he and his entire army were cannibals- though that might have just been a cultural thing in the land they came from.
>>47797521
Oh damn son, basically the most hardcore motherfucker
>Survived two assassination attempts
>Actually captured Redwall
>Didn't take shit from nobody
>Competent right hand men
>Died a warrior and not a wimp (looking at you, Sable Quean)
>>47797886
yeah now I remember, haven't read that book yet though, just remember reading about him somewhere
also have a map of the Redwall world that was made for a thread on AlternateHistory.com that was about writing up a timeline for the Redwall world after the events of the final book(chronologically that is), so some things might be a bit off looking
>>47797845
There were seals, dolphins and sea monsters in the setting, the horse didn't throw off the scale too much. Though it would have ben great if they turned the cart into some sort of huge siege engine or a modified ship pulled by an enslaved horse.
I always wanted them to have something like a bear or a war band of wild boars pass through Redwall and be portrayed as some epic struggle that pushes them to the limit in order to fight it off.
>>47797521
Yes yes, run, Cornflower. OH! Too slow!
>>47797929
I could swear that Mossflower was part of an actual continent.
>>47796495
>>47797039
>>47797404
>>47797541
>>47797600
>>47797701
>>47797727
Found him, Finbarr Galedeep the Sea Otter Captain in The Bellmaker.
>>47798214
Huh, seems like it.
Thanks anon.
I really have to see if I still have those books.
>>47798301
Honestly I wouldn't read them again, at least not until I have kids. I tried to read them a few years back and found that they just seemed too childlike for me.
Made me sad senpai,
>>47798416
If you're interested in a human version, I've found that The Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart is pretty good and definitely has that Redwall spirit of wandering adventures.
>>47798502
My favourite adult author of heroic fantasy was / is David Gemmel. I feel somewhat like he is Brian Jacques for adults.
I do wanna run a Redwall game one day. Not a fan of D&D or the clones...nor GURPS.
Maybe something like Risus, just make it super simple.
>>47798416
I know the feeling. I've got the books sitting on my shelf, another year and I'll start reading them to my daughter.
>>47798593
Is anyone aware of how Mouse Guard works when refluffed to Redwall?
Failing that, I have some Redwall homebrews lying around, lemme see if I can dig them up.
>>47798593
>>47799182
Looks to be more complicated then it's worth, though.
>>47798593
Try homebrewing Warhammer Fantasy.
>>47797792
The scale thing always bugged me too. I mostly just head fluffed them into "small races" which included Mice, Moles, Squirrels, Rats, etc. and "big races" which included Hares, Badgers, Cats, and Foxes.
Not including shit like snakes which were basically monsters.
>>47800049
Hmm, a Warhammer redwall setting could be interesting,
Vermin-
Rats- skaven obviously
Ferrets, stoats and the like- gors/orcs
Foxes- dark elf or chaos warrior stats
Wolverines and wildcats- greater daemon/prince stats
Good beasts
Hares- high elves
Badgers- ogre/dwarfs cross
Squirrels-wood elves
Otters- somewhere between human and elf stats
Mice, and shrews- halflings
Moles and hedgehogs- dwarfs
How did Martin turn into a mystical spirit guardian anyway? Dude was a total badass in his books but his ghost acts nothing like he did when he was alive.
>>47800154
probably some sort of mystical enlightenment after he died or something
>>47800154
He saw a lot of shit. The book about him before he comes to Redwall was downright brutal.
With seeing a lot of shit comes handling your own shit.
>>47796270
No, there was a side character who had sharpened teeth and ate vermin. Taggerung was a chill dude.
>>47797616
>cool
Wearing what amounts to an inside-put winter coat in the hot sun for hours on end is the opposite of cool.
>>47788007
Its not good for you
>>47797410
>>47797305
>>47797255
Also, this adder-hydra was one dangerous motherfucker, responsible for killing four prominent characters, including one of the major antagonists and one of the major protagonists. Not to mention how they devastated an army and got away practically unscathed.
>>47797410
Okay, this is totally going to be added to my Mouseguard game.
>>47797410
It's like a Rat King but for snakes!
>>47788007
XP 1,200
N Magical beast
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +12
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 10, flat-footed 14 (+1 Dex, +5 natural, –1 size)
hp 47 (5d10+20)
Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +8 (1d6+4 plus grab), bite +8 (1d6+4)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +5; CMB +10 (+14 grapple); CMD 21 (25 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Great Fortitude, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Perception +12
>>47794548
Is that a God allegory? Definitely didn't catch on to that when I was younger.
>>47794548
Could be Matthias too. I don't remember the sword ever being inscribed, but then again its been more than a decade...
>>That feel when you still kinda remember Matthias' prophecy, and Methusala getting slugged by a bag of loot...
>>47788214
Literally the only things I remember about Redwall is that at least one book had a scene about squirrels, and that honey was used extensively in food, and that they thought roses were the most delicious shit. I've eaten roses because of Redwall. Jacques was wrong.
>>47795084
>Then they had their tunnel collapsed on them.
They just couldn't win, could they?
>>47806419
Dandelions are pretty good though.
>>47796217
>Doomguy Badger
>Aside from being a badger he's practically the same.
Fuck. Yes.
>>47794548
I Am That Is
I ha Is -> mATt
I -> mATthIas
I Matthias
It's a fucking anagram.
>>47798593
If you do, I totally want to play.
Anyone else remember Ovus and Bluddbeak? I cried at that shit, man.
>>47804079
i am Mathias.
>There will never be another Redwall book
What happened to that vidya that was being made, anyways?
>>47806419
Hopefully you tried the hip, and not the flowers. You're not supposed to eat the flowers.
>>47806571
Actually Redwall was the only book where the badguys actually did win. Temporarily at least. They totally managed to conquer the Abby which is more than any other villain in the series can say.
>>47810539
The only book where the bad guys won at Redwall, you mean. Ungatt Trunn actually managed to pretty much take over Salamandastron, though again, the victory didn't last long.
>>47800142
>The scale thing always bugged me too. I mostly just head fluffed them into "small races" which included Mice, Moles, Squirrels, Rats, etc. and "big races" which included Hares, Badgers, Cats, and Foxes.
This is one of the reasons I was thinking Fate could work too. Aspects would cover all issues with species and size, fitting well with the "creatures are as big as the story needs" feel from the books.
But Fate has its own issues.
I've actually done a lot of work statting out the Redwall races for a Pathfinder type game, would anyone be interested in seeing what I have?
>>47812931
sure why not
I did not expect this thread to get much in the way of replies.
>crtl f "sunflash"
>no results
Let's talk about the realest badger lord.
>no love for mah nigga luke
Sires martin, one of the baddest dudes around, and he has one of the most badass deaths in the series.
>>47801720
So what you're saying is...Those furries are hot?I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist.
>>47810512
They're edible, they just don't taste like much even if you crystalize them.
>>47816001
Sunflash the Mace is fucking based. I love that he just uses a giant chunk of wood studded with shit.
Who Redwall Readers Club here.
>>47817236
I'd like to get my hands on dem books.
>>47809050
Who is Mathias?
>>47815931
Redwall was a great childhood series for a lot of us. Of course it's going to generate a good bit of discussion.
>>47816001
I think Sunflash a real cool badger. He pulps vermin and don't afraid of anyone.
>>47817236
Was that the name of the official fan club?
I was in that, they used to send newsletters with recipes, posters and bookmarks. They used to send me a birthday card every year too which I used to get genuinely excited about.
No mention of the Marlfoxes?
What's not to love about inbred family of cutthroat, halberd-wielding illusionists?
>>47788214
Man, I have a signed copy of Rakkety Tam, I went to a book signing and met Jacques when I was in 4th grade (9 years old, for the euros). I told him he was my favorite author and he said I was his favorite kid. Really was a bummer when he died.
Would anyone be interested in a PDF converting Redwall into a LotRSBG supplement? I don't know where you would find minis, but that game really is the best skirmish rule set I've ever seen / played. It really fits the engagement size and narrative style of the books as well.
>>47812503
I always wanted a book that showed the northern wildcat kingdom that produced Ungatt Trunn and Verdauga Greeneyes. two of the most effective antagonists, imo.
>>47819229
It also produced Racketty Tam and his Wolverine foe, Swart Sixclaw, that blue eyed weasel thing from Salamandastron, the Foxwolf, and maybe Cluny. Sounds like an absolutely brutal place.
>>47797845
I think using a OSR style game would be absolutely fantastic, especially if you heavily utilized the class-as-race idea. The only real problem I could see is modeling the size difference between characters.
I think I might actually give this a shot and try to write it out.
Is it bad that I kind of wanted to see a crew of vermin who weren't necessarily evil, just out for a thrill? They'd probably work better as river raiders than sea-pirates, since the abundance of food growing in Mossflower would help justify them not being merciless, just doing what they wanted because >freedom.
Then again, I always wanted more good/greyish vermin rather than them all being evil. Probably because they always had character.
>>47815931
I wouldn't be surprised if Redwall wasn't the gateway to the idea of fantasy worlds for many of us.
>>47822829
It probably helps that it was a setting that had practically nothing in the way of magic. Aside from Martin's sword and the Abbey itself, there's not much in the way of "mystical powers." Thus, the annoying "because magic" shortcut was never used, and everything happened for an understandable, explainable reason.
Anyone remember that cartoon they aired?
>>47797521
He was a cool BBEG, maybe even the best. Too bad he was the first BBEG is the series, since he was the one who came closest to wining.
Anyone remember that one rat that was a good guy? At the end of the book he was in he had a family and had became a shipwright
>>47823043
True, but Ungatt Trunn is a very close second. Plus, he almost won when trying to take Salamandastron. Not Redwall abbey- he went straight for the heavily-fortified garrison of the strongest fighting force in Mossflower and said "Yes, this is who I want to fight."
>>47823179
Yeah, his name was Blaggut. I don't think he had a family, but he did become a shipright, and one of only vermin to go good and not have it end up costing them their life.
>>47823250
I could have sworn it said he married in the epilogue of the book, guess i will have to go back and look at it
>>47797792
>if someone criticizes a childrens book series they're automatically autistic
Autism.
>>47821510
could modify Adventurer Conqueror King System for it, especially as it's Player's Companion expansion has a class creation system that accounts for Racial Classes as well as normal ones(was thinking that Mice would count as humans and just use the normal human classes listed in Core and PC, as they are pretty much the baseline)
>>47823179
There was also that one that just ditched the evil party.
I think he died though, I'm not sure.
>>47798214
No, Finbar wasn't the cannibal. He was captured by searats who killed/enslaved his family yes, but he was never a cannibal. The otter you're thinking of is Folgrim from the legend of Luke (The book about Martin's father).
>>47822743
There was a good rat in one of the books, though I forget his name. he eventually settled down and became a shipbuilder if I remember correctly.
>>47823587
That's the guy! Thanks anon.
>>47823250
So he gets a happy ending, but Veil has to die because of reasons?
Bullshit.
t. a butthurt ferret owner
>>47817997
A young mouse monk at Redwall Abbey.
Read the Redwall book for more.
>>47824256
Outcast really was a disappointment. So many villains wasted before they could fulfill their potential.
Veil dying isn't necessarily a bad thing; Romsca the pirate was the closest Jacques ever got to recreating Blaggut, and she died too (though her death was a mutual kill with that monitor lizard guy, so not a bad way to go.). What sucks about it is that his mother backpedals on the moral of the story; right when he's finally proven there's good in him by saving his mother at the cost of his own life, she goes home and says "You guys were right, I shouldn't have tried," and they make her Abbess because of it.
Even Martin treated vermin better; in "Mossflower," Martin and company find a dead, elderly searat near his camp on the beach. Their first response is to speak to him respectfully while trying to help him; after they realize he's gone, they give him a proper burial before making use of his shelter and supplies.
Compare that to the attitude in later books when it comes to dead vermin -Save your tears, they won't be hurting anyone else- and it seems like the Abbey's morals underwent a serious decay.
>>47822743
>talking about sympathetic vermin
>not mentioning Romsca
>>47824771
It's that sort of thing that's led me to prefer no always evil or always good races in settings.
>Latest group of Redwall Crusaders bump into a heavily-laden rat on their quest
>"Whot're ye boiyin', strangers?"
Seeing as Jacques isn't going to continue the series (for obvious reasons), how would you guys feel if somebody else picked up the torch? On the one hand, I'd like to see more of the world he built, and a new author might be able to change up things that readers have started finding a bit worn thin (such as no decent vermin who don't get immediately killed off, and only voles and such being capable of becoming bad guys). On the other, there's significant risk that whoever picked it up wouldn't stay true to the source material, which is a trend I've grown incredibly weary of seeing.
What about you guys?
>>47825973
I would like to see this done it would be cool to finish it but it being open ended is cool to what with these systems to play it you can build your own end to it and that would be cool
>>47825973
I wouldn't mind having a spiritual successor, but Redwall has had its day.
>>47824771
The only good Vermin is a dead Vermin.
http://www.somethingawful.com/news/bargain-book-bin-3/
>>47823490
I had the same idea for making the mice the "human" analogue and the ones able to take the most types of classes, since the non-mice were a lot more one note.
>>47825973
Redwall as it is is enough. Its not like wheel of time, it was full and complete.
>>47795084
It's the doorway, it resets your brain causing you to forget your purpose for entering the room
>>47795328
Taggerung, so good that in later books otters brag about being related to him.
>>47826483
>>47826159
I suppose a spiritual successor would probably be a better way to go, but that raises another issue: How do you make a spiritual successor to Redwall, without having it immediately get dismissed as "Furry shit?"
Come to think of it, why isn't Redwall considered "Furry shit?" It's about a group of intelligent animals with human-like culture and tool-using abilities, yet I can't bring myself to consider them the same thing. Why is that?
>>47827667
Because you grew up with it, probably.
Also, "animals" =/= "shit" necessarily. The reason people originally hated furries on 4chan was their insistence and spamming it all over the place.
>>47827713
I agree, the problem is that furry-hate has grown to the point where things like games and books with legitimately interesting and good concepts or stories will get shot down because "Eww! Furries!"
I think part of how Redwall distinguished itself was that the animals were drawn and described as being pretty much what they actually look like, just with some clothing and weapons.
Like this otter. It doesn't look like a "furry" otter, it looks like a normal otter with some clothes on.
>>47827667
There is absolutely no sexuality or moaning about being different.
If furries didn't constantly focus about these two things they wouldn't be hated even half as much as they are.
>>47827810
>>47827667
>>47827818Ironclaw is a good game system
>>47827837
Too bad the art literally looks like 90s furry porn.
>>47827837
I think that Mouseguard is exactly the same genre as Redwall and the Mouseguard rpg is good.
>>47827810
All the best furry porn uses that art style. Loony Toons is how amateurs draw.
>>47796495
That dual-sworded motherfucker from Mariel? Seems like him.
>>47825973
I would love to write Redwall stories on the premise that Jacques' version is the candy-coated version told in the Abby and that the real world they live in is a lot more complicated. I think this is exactly the sort of thing you're weary of seeing.
I think the most interesting way to do a Redwall game is if everyone plays as vermin.
>>47827810
At least it isn't open warfare like it was back in the day.
People can actually play Iornclaw and start threads about it without getting virtually lynched.
Is it bad that when I was about 10 years younger, I wrote comically shitty fanfiction about this series? All I remember is that the good guy was a ferret with some metal as fuck ritual involving eating his friends after they died so they could pass on their strength to the clan but was mostly pacifistic otherwise, and he mostly ate fish because he'd been raised on next to nothing and Redwall food was a huge shock to his system.
>>47797792
I wouldn't exactly call these books kids books, I remember reading the first two when I was younger, and its pretty fucking brutal stories.
>>47828203
They're kids books for kids that aren't wusses then.
You sound like someone trying to get them removed from a school library at the PTA meeting, while the librarian facepalms, because they know now they are going to get every concerned soccer mom's list of books that they think are not appropriate.
>>47828203
Summer after 3rd grade, it was the first thing I read when I was tired of Goosebumps and it basically got me hooked on heroic fantasy. The Hobbit would come years later around 7th grade.
>>47828203
I was ten or so when I started reading, and part of what hooked me was how they didn't shy away from death. Good guys died, bad guys died, there were actual consequences to stabbing someone in the gut. It made me feel invested, in a way the typical "there's danger but it's never going to actually get anyone hurt" storytelling a lot of books aimed at that age bracket fell into.
>>47828292
You sound like someone who is a prejudgmental cunt quick to accuse others of prejudgment.
"Kids book" is a nebulous term and that's fine, it's not really a big deal. I do think of them as kids books because I got bored of them as I got older but I still have a lot of fondness and respect, they taught me to love reading. Conversely they do depict war ad for a "kid's book" the violence is pretty damn real, it's not for all kids or all ages and that's fine too.
>>47828429
Yea, exactly. This is a pet peeve but as an adult I have come to VISCERALLY HATE children's stories that have candy-coated violence. If your story includes people trying to kill each other then make it real.
I sort of think Jacques leaned towards simplistic morality because that made it easier for him to live with all the death and maiming in his children's books.
>>47828354
I suppose you mean you read it at 7th grade because The Hobbit came out in the 30s
>>47827254
I've read this so many times and it still manages to be hilarious.
>Many others do not have the good humor I do to not phone the authorities when they wake up to the words "FUCKING STOAT" burning on their front lawns.
>>47828429
Also agonizing death by means of venomous snakes, and scorpions.
>>47828583
No, I'm 91 years old, I found my copy of Redwall in a wormhole when I was 8.
>>47827810
Do people even care about furries any more? I mean, I expect there to be an influx of them in a decade or so due to the popularity of Zootopia, but really when was the last time you interacted with an in-your-face furry?
For me, it's probably been years, unless you count the Undertale fandom (there's a case to be made there).
>>47828603
>the fucking ending
oh my sides
>>47828477
thing is, I'm kind of with him on this; there's been something of a push over the years to try and keep kid's books from depicting stuff like death or war in a serious light. If Jacques published his books today, they'd likely get restricted to high-school-age reading sections. Which fucking sucks for all the middle schoolers who want to read something that's actually worth reading.
>>47828568
The simplistic morality was a good feature, since it gave the audience a clear-cut way of determining who they should be rooting for, and there's nothing wrong with a race having a strong tendency towards being cruel assholes. The thing was that it got a bit frustrating when one of the vermin was actually turning good or having a concience or otherwise being likeable, because after the first few times you knew that they were going to die.
It wasn't the rule, it was the lack of tolerance for exceptions to that rule.
>>47828643
Ungatt Trunn's death is still probably one of the most brutal deaths I've seen in any media.
And I liked that, because he was an asshole who deserved to suffer, but also had an impact because, you know, kids aren't stupid. They don't know everything about how the world works, but they tend to know enough to catch on to when the adults are bullshitting them. The fact that it wasn't pulling the typical rosy discretion shot and never adressing it again stuck with me; it felt real, in a sense. I could see it.
And that's the most important part of literature; making sure the audience can see the picture you're painting.
>>47828660
I'd argue that it's not the furries that are the problem anymore. Take your example of Zootopia; a lot of the people and artists wanting to talk about it ended up getting kicked off /co/, even if they were just trying to extrapolate on the worldbuilding.
Then again, that's /co/, but the point remains; outside of /tg/, anything animal-related is essentially walking a tightrope.
>>47828477
>not for all kids or all ages
Congrats on describing every piece of media ever.
Anyways, if you don't want to sound like an asshole at a PTA meeting, then don't cry when the villain gets hit. Sometimes villains gotta get hit, and a story is generally more interesting if the hero gets hit once or twice on his way to hit the villain.
This thread was a great trip to the past, I really wanna read these again. Should be like new since it's been so incredibly long. Question that's probably gonna annoy you though, do you guys think published or chronological is best order?
>>47829042
I started with "Lord Brocktree" when I first found the series, so I can't really say. Chronological might sit better, since they were designed to reference stuff from past books, but I don't necessarily think it matters.
>>47828660
at this point 4chan would be improved by having the "Furry" clause of Global Rule 3 removed, cause at this point it causes more harm than it solves
>>47829042
either works, although even if you go Chronological you might be better off reading Redwall and Mattimeo first anyways(especially as the latter is incredibly rough compared to most other books in the series)
>>47828885
>The thing was that it got a bit frustrating when one of the vermin was actually turning good or having a concience or otherwise being likeable
That's why Marlfox was one of my top reads from the series, it shown the vermin/rats that worked for the foxes were just as much of a victim as the rest of the slaves that lived there too. Barring the leader of the guards the rest of the rats got to live in peace on the island after the Marlfox leadership was disposed of and lived the lives of an agricultural community.
>>47829296
>>47829148
>>47829042
Read in order of best books to worst because you're probably not going to read all of them.
Original Redwall is good. Mossflower. Salamdastron. I was really fond of Mariel of Redwall and I think Pearls of Lutra is my favorite. Mattimeo was one of the more disappointing ones imo. Anyone else weigh in?
>>47829411
Rakkety Tam is definitely high up there, as is The Long Patrol. Legend of Luke is probably the only Redwall book with a true Tragedy, rather than a bittersweet victory. High Rhulain should have been good, but the forced "womyn can be strong too!" left a bad taste in my mouth, considering that it was preceded by numerous badass female characters and very little precedent for the problem in the first place.
Outcast is a disappointment in so many ways.
>>47829610
>The Long Patrol
Damn that one really was amazing. Russa Nodrey impacted me enough to immediately remember he name on thinking of that book. High Rhulain is worse than Pearls of Lutra for strong ladies though IMO.
>>47829411
The Long Patrol is another good book, as well as Lord Brocktree and Marlfox are some of the most well regarded in my opinion.
But Mattiemeo and was one of the poorer ones in the series.
Mossflower is the best book. Fite me.
>>47829693
My point exactly; by having "the main character is female!" be important to the plot, it actually impeded the story's quality and how badass the female actually was.
I only read one of these as a kid. Am I missing out? Are they worth reading as an adult?
>>47830025
Yeah they're fine. There's some stereotyping that can feel a little weak/overplayed as you keep reading back to back but overall they're very solid books.
>>47830025
I would say yes, on account of the excellent worldbuilding and characterizations. If nothing else, it's a great example of how to write accents well; molespeak is right on that line where you can still understand what they're saying, but still conveys just how think and hard to understand their accent is.
>>47830025
Absolutely, there are so many good ones.
>>47829785
Yeah, and Mariel was another heroine who was just tough af and didn't take guff. That fucking knotted rope as a weapon was so baller.
Never read these, but can you guys give me some more stories of shit that happens? It's like hearing old legends
>>47788214
The food is why you read it.
And mice with swords, for the furries.
>>47817182
kekl'edI wish I could sew
>>47830808
Well, the hydra was discussed earlier in the thread... How about the badgers? Want to hear about some of their better RIP AND TEAR moments?
>>47830808
>>47831803
Ooh, nevermind, I know what to share: Ungatt Trunn.
See, Ungatt was a Wildcat, which in this setting means he's a big, mean motherfucker on par with badgers; for comparison, mice would probably only come up to his knee, and things like hares would be about waist-level with him. Plus claws that could punch through iron armor, his teeth... this motherfuckers scary when he's naked, and he's wearing armor and wielding a trident, which he's very good with.
This motherfucker- he doesn't go attack the peacable abbey. This motherfucker- THIS. MOTHERFUCKER.- takes his horde of armed vermin, marches right up to Salamandastron- THE armed fortress of the land, known for it's Badger Lords- big motherfuckers who can go berserk with "bloodrage" and basically not die until they've killed everyone in sight, no matter how bad their injuries- and as the home of the Long Patrol, essentially the standing army of the area, with all the weaponry, training, and experience that implies. Vermin fear Salamandastron. Salamandastron means death to the ears of any vermin.
But this motherfucker
THIS
MOTHERFUCKER
Goes right up to the front gates, with a horde a thousand strong following him, and goes "1v1 fite me faget!"
>>47832008
>Goes right up to the front gates, with a horde a thousand strong following him, and goes "1v1 fite me fag
And he still lost.
>>47832558
The villains always lose. Ungatt Trunn is one of the only characters ever to 1v1 a Bloodwrathed Badger Lord and have it be a pretty darn even fight.
Bloodwrathed badgers plow through hordes like they weren't even there, and this guy held his own against him- and it was a true Badger Lord in his prime, not an aged one. That's absolutely insane.
Though I admit, his death was the most memorable thing. Shit was brutal.
>>47832008
>>47832558
Lord Brocktree's son Boar the Fghter soloed a corsair crew of over a hundred rats. He died in the fight but he felt he was getting old anyways and wanted to get the captain as he was something of a nemesis of his.
And Ungatt Trunn's horde was the biggest in the series. I don't remember a specific number, but it was many thousands. The next largest was from The Long Patrol, it was a thousand strong. The average was about a hundred to five hundred or so.
>>47828166
Depends on how old you are right now. If you're older than 27 - yes, it is bad.
>>47830808
Asmodeus the Adder was one of the most memorable characters for me.
As a Snake he's basically the Redwall equivalent of a dragon. And since barely anything could beat him in a fight he became convinced he was an actual God of Death. Matthias eventually realized that the Sword of Martin was in his lair and the two had an old-fashioned dragon/hero fight over a magical sword.
Bump for Finbarr Galedeep. Motherfuckin' dual-cutlass-wielding sea otter pirate and BBEG-killing badass.
>>47788007
Vitality: 20
Attunement: 10
Endurance: 15
Strength: 15
Dexterity: 15
Resistance: 5
Intelligence: 10
Faith: 10
Humanity: 0
Level: 25
>>47833999
Awesome, any more details about that fight?
>>47832664
How'd he die?
Also I've heard about Matthias a bit, what does he do/does he die?
>>47835920
Matthias and Log-a-Log, the leader of the Guosim Shrew snuck into his den while he was sleeping to retrieve the sword from his lair. They managed to find the sword but before they could sneak back out. Asmodeus managed to corner them in a dead end and used his eyes to hypnotize them, but Matthias was able to break out using Bloodwrath after he saw a vision of Martin the Warrior. He charged Asmdoeus and beheaded him with his sword.
As for Matthias himself, he was a mouse who was training to be a monk at Redwall. But when Cluny the Scourge and his army laid siege to the Abbey he became the defacto leader of the Abby's defenses. Guided by visions of Martin the Warrior's spirit and with the help of an elderly monk named Methuselah he was able decipher clues built into the abbey itself that led to Martin's sword, which had been stolen from its hiding place by a clan of Sparrows who in turn lost it to Asmodeus.
When Cluny managed to seize the Abbey via trickery while Matthias was away he led the attack to retake it, and eventually defeated Cluny by dropping the Abbey's giant bell onto him. After the siege was lifted he was denied a position as a monk, and instead was given a position as the official leader of Redwall's defenses. Shortly after he married his childhood sweetheart Cornflower.
Years later when several children from the Abbey including his son were kidnapped by slavers he led a group of warriors from the surrounding area to track them down. His son Mattimeo would eventually inherit his position and sword allowing Matthias to live out the rest of his life in peace with his wife. He died peacefully of old age.
>>47835920
>how'd he die?
Well, first, he gets into a one-on-one duel with the Badger Lord. As stated previously, he holds his own, and with a group of his soldiers ordered to kill the badger if things went south, he did come pretty close to winning. Unfortunately for him, the Long Patrol had better aim than his archers, so the ambush failed, and in the end even he couldn't face a badger that was in full-on RIP AND TEAR Bloodwrath mode. He got his spine snapped and was tossed away into the water, which sent his horde into panic mode.
Turns out, even that didn't kill him.
A chapter or two later, we find Ungatt Trunn washed up on the beach, STILL ALIVE. His spine's snapped, so he can't move, he can't really talk that well, is in an unbearable amount of pain... and since he can't really turn his head, he's forced to watch the tide as it slowly starts coming in, closer and closer...
This shit is literally the entire focus of the chapter. Jacques devoted an entire fucking chapter to showing this motherfucker die. And the thing that cements his fate is when one of his disgruntled captains shows up, and actually pushes him out to sea, then does a little happy dance while watching his former employer drown.
You know... for kids!
>>47824771
>>47825240
>>47827254
It's bothered me ever sine I was little, because I grew up with ferrets.
>>47836724
It bothers me because it's incongruous and shitty
Bumping for Redwall and stuff.
So what is your favorite cover art?
>>47841675
I know a lot of people don't like the story of Outcast, but I do like that moody cover of Veil looking out of the leaves .
What can't a badger solo?
>>47836469
To elaborate on that captain, he was a fox named Groddil and was Trunn's "Grand Magician." Groddil's family was killed by Trunn a while back, and Trunn mutilated Groddil and caused his growth to be stunted. Groddil and Trunn's captain Fraul were sent into the depths of Salamandastron to find some hares that escaped earlier after Groddil ordered the badger Lord Stonepaw to be killed, and Fraul was eaten alive by spider crabs while Groddil was washed out to sea. Groddil later washed up on the shore and hid, but when Trunn washed up he came out to mock Trunn after pushing him back into the ocean.
I wrote up stats for most of the good races in redwall
http://pastebin.com/P2hXGehH
I am missing bats, vole and sparrows but anyway.
I need to play test these so if anyone want to play a small game of pathfinder over skype set in the redwall universe just let me know
>people talking about all the crazy fuckers in redwall
>no one talking about lord sunflash the mace, whose mace was spilked with the weapons and teeth of the fuckers he fucked up
>no one talking about the snake from triss which was three snakes stuck together and pretty much a three headed dragon
>>47842804
Both were mentioned already.
>That vermin crew in triss that had a poet
>He wrote poetry for literally every thing
Plugg Firetail's crew was awesome
>>47836469
>Jacques devoted an entire fucking chapter to showing this motherfucker die.
Damn that's pretty dark.
Anything else like this in the series
>Mfw I didn't know about Redwall until this thread
I know what I'm going to spend a portion of my wage on this month.
>>47844089
Try to read it in chronological order and not the order of release
>>47842804
See
>>47797233
>>47797328
>>47797410
>>47802986
>>47843673
Admittedly, it was a shorter chapter, but still, that shit caught my attention as a kid, and still does today.
You also might find the stuff linked above interesting. Snakes are insanely deadly and creepy in this series. There's also the Gawtribe, a group of tribal squirrels who apparently capture and eat anyone who trespasses on their land. Or maybe they're the ones that make them play a "game" where if the squirrels catch them, they kill them. Maybe both; I'll have to check.
In terms of similarly brutal deaths, there's Blodd Apis in "Doomwyte." She was a hermit hedgehog who became a crazy old bee lady- it's like an old cat lady, but with bees. Thousands and thousands of bees.
Apparently her isolation did a number on her mental health, because when a few Redwallers find her while looking for the Macguffin of the book, she gets them drunk enough to pass out, and tries to murder all of them with her bees. Only Foremole's slight sobriety saved them, and then Apis spilled her bees-kill-this juice, which she was about to apply to the Redwallers, on herself.
Cue the screaming.
>>47788214
>>47788247
>>47792982
Wait, for real? There's Highlander Squirrels in this? By god, yes.
>>47844089
I hope you like food and riddles.
>>47844295
Actually two of them.
and iirc that book also has ermine being used as hunting dogs (the equivalent of training humans to be hunting dogs)
Cannibals
and a hare officer who using a fishing pool as a weapon
>>47844295
Not only that, but they end up facing off against a Wolverine. Which in this universe is pretty much the equivalent of the biggest, baddest werewolf around getting jacked up on steroids and a taste for living flesh.
>>47844357
There should be a whole series of books following the POV of a single Highlander Squirrel hunting Wolverine's in a war-torn medieval world.
Something with a Witcher-feel to it.
>>47844395
I would much prefer a multiplayer RPG somewhere in between skyrim and dark souls where you can be any race using whatever and just wrekt shit.
Here's some food for discussion:
We know badgers can have Bloodwrath, it's kind of their thing. But I seem to remember a couple of other characters having it too. Anybody remember who and what they were? I'm sure they exist.
>>47844754
Yeah, one of the mice. Maybe Matthias?
>>47844754
There was mole in the sable queen who had
>>47844754
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodwrath
>"This is the way ter do it mucker," Dingeye breathed excitedly. "Now lerrit go straight. It should go across the 'all, over the passage an' up the stairs."
Brian Jacques was a dirty old sailor.
>>47846449
He was indeed a sailor
>>47848057
>>47846449
His other book series was all about sailors
>>47843673
You really want brutal and gritty?
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Deeper'n'Ever_Turnip'n'Tater'n'Beetroot_Pie
I hope you're wearing reinforced trousers.
>>47788007
Childhood/20
Are there any other series with a similar feel?
>>47831081Making those is actually easier and "cheaper" than it looks, but requires shitload of time
t. worked as a kid in an prop workshop and made some mascot costumes
>>47836304
And here I was just about to say that I was sure i=one villlain died when they dropped the abbey bell onto him.
>>47788007
Something about an anthropomorphic mouse carrying a sword inscribed with "I am that is" weirds me out in a very special way.
Such a clear reference to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
>>47836469
>>47832664
Do any other villains get closer to victory than Ungatt Trunn?
>>47854232
Cluney the scourge gets pretty damn close, as mentioned earlier.
>>47842650
Wolf, I'd imagine, but a living one was never introduced in any of the books.
