Old dungeon: >>47773042
>Official /5eg/ Mega Trove v3:
https://mega.nz/#F!BUdBDABK!K8WbWPKh6Qi1vZSm4OI2PQ
>Pastebin with homebrew list, resources and so on:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck (embed) (embed)
Tell us what new player races you'd like to see, Anon
>>47787382
No more new player races, please. I was happy to get away from Pathfinder and all the convoluted fanfiction sellout shit like Kitsune and androids.
We're perfectly fine with Humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, and the standard stuff like that.
im working on a magic ice flame that allows the wielder to get free casts of ice knife.
whats a good name for it? im trying to avoid just calling it the "frozen Flame".
>>47787382
crab people
>>47787534
Sounds like a pretty strong item.
Frozen Heart?
Tundra Soul?
Permafrost?
Glacial Pyre?
Torch of the Frost Giants?
>>47787590
probably just a couple charges a day or so. a couple utility abilities like the ability to freeze stuff and to be used as a torch.
those are some good names! Thanks!
>>47787534
im drawing a little inspiration from Dark Souls' pyromancy flame for this item. a little hand held flame, but icy, so it freezes rather than burns.
>>47787534
Frostburn
Frostbite
Coldfire
Celsius, the Darkling Flame
The Boreal Flame
Anomalius
Shadefire
Ashlight
>>47787382
5e Homebrew General master list
http://pastebin.com/ahwNkwar
>>47787646
Frostbite is pretty good>>47787656
>>47787646
im really liking the boreal flame
Sounds important. its not a quest item, but its cool that it makes it sound like one.
>>47787382
Why do so many DMs ban the use of races from the Elemental Evil supplement? I want to try playing a genasi or a goliath but but for some reason so many DMs online and offline don't want to acknowledge any player options in that book.
Is there a particular reason for this or are they just shit DMs?
>>47787709
i dont know. maybe they just dont want to learn them. id allow it. im all for freedom as i dont give a fuck about lore.
>>47787709
Some people don't want to have a mess of options and keep things simple. Some people don't want a party of half-elementals, half-giants, or birdmen.
This is completely valid. If you don't like it, you can run your own game where such things are allowed
>>47787709
Genasi are stupid Forgotten Realms things that should stay there. There's already two kinds of Gnome and no one I've seen wants to play a Deep Gnome except for abjurer shenanigans.
Bird people because low-restriction flight is annoying to deal with.
Goliaths are cool but it's easier to just ban the source than suggest that only one race is usable out of it.
>>47787759
>Genasi are stupid Forgotten Realms things that should stay there.
Funny you should say that. Several DMs I've seen run forgotten realm campaigns online don't allow them either.
What's so triggering about genasi?
Homebrewers: what is the most fun class to homebrew options for in your experience?
Warlocks for me. They're so well designed from an RP perspective.
>>47787382
Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds and Lizardfolk.
Any other race apart from those classics had been either a mess, a bad human copy or fan pandering towards something like doesn't fit, like Catfolk or other furry shit.
>>47787810
They just seem very special snowflake-y
>>47788002
I have fun with Sorcerers myself, though that's because I enjoy the concept a lot.
>>47787656
Nice. Hope it gets added to the pastebin pronto.
>>47788010
So you have no legitimate reason why they should be banned?
Gonna be dming a new campaign for some friends next week and I'm wanting to run them through the hospital escape level from the phantom pain (none of them have played it so they won't know anything about it) in our first session. How can I suggest to my players that they want to stealth their way out and that trying to fight at all will get them slaughtered without OOC telling them this?
I want them to learn early on that fighting won't always be the way to handle a problem. I'm planning on having all of their gear stored in a room on a lower floor but when they get there that room is empty. Any advice?
>>47787810
Probably just the idea of someone basically walking around as the human torch. It works in really high fantasy, but if you're in some random village it just seems out of place.
Dragonborn at least pretend to have a unified culture or a homeland they come from. Tieflings are edgy, but they have justifaction for being places and the whole demonic blood thing can sometimes lead to interesting back stories. Both of those are better options for people who just want elemental powers from square 1.
Genasi are descended from beings from another dimension. They don't have a clear culture. They don't crop up at random like tieflings. They tend to just be a random person who was the child of a Djinn who fell into the real world through a portal. They're basically aliens in terms of tone
>>47787709
As a DM, I usually don't allow shit that I can't find a way to fit into my setting. I'm not going to write in a brand new continent so that a player can play some bullshit that they'll forget that they are 3 sessions in, and I'm not going to have NPCs gloss over the fact that one of the PCs is some otherworldly bullshit.
Granted, Genasi are decently easy to write into a campaign setting, I'm just reluctant to do any more work than I already am.
>>47787454
Cry me a river. No one cares if you dislike new races, and concede, they may be crapy deviant art tier oc characters. That being said, anybody advocating for less options is a limped dick of a DM.
What are some routine things a Loa spirit might require of one of it's clients or worshipers?
>>47787709
Personally I'd go "Okay, I'm not sure what your intentions are, but I'll go have a look at it"
And then I'd probably be a sucker and reluctantly allow it
Part of the problem is what >>47788106 just said: It might not fit into the setting at all and when allowed it might be hit-or-miss as to whether it actually pays off.
>>47788097
Show them that the enemies are really strong and in high numbers. Maybe have a friendly NPC get killed before their eyes to show them what they are up against.
>>47788097
>trying to fight at all will get them slaughtered
Remember this post when you start a thread next week about how shitty your players are that they kicked you from the group for "no good reason."
>>47788097
>>47788133
Yeah, it's generally not too good to force people into one course of action, because you know people will try fighting anyway.
I personally recommend you start them off with one if they're pretty strong, and the players should know there may be more. If the players stealth right away, good for them!
They should all team up and take it down is what you'd expect, but they'd take enough of a beating to realize once they see all the rest of them that fighting through is a really bad course of action without being more prepared.
>>47788099
Orc rape babies, dragon rape babies and demon rape babies are fine, but somehow genie rape babies isn't?
>>47788171
Yeah it's dumb.
Genie rape babies made perfect sense in Al-Qadim and Kalimshan
>>47787382
What can I do as a player to make sure that the game fun for everybody?
>>47788171
Genies live in another dimension. More specifically, four varieties live in four separate dimensions. They aren't as well known for visiting the prime material plane, and if they do, they're better known for granting wishes rather than trying to fuck things. Genasi don't randomly crop up from cursed bloodlines like tieflings either, so your Genesai has to come from Genesai parents. While they breed true, they tend to do so on their respective elemental planes. Thus, while you can have a society of them, they won't be in the world itself like a Dragonborn tribes where they can just wander somewhere. Even if they do, its unlikely they'll be able to visit their home, or even return. To include them, the DM gas to carve out a space for each variety, which is 4 separate ones in total. With all of them having great elemental powers and control, there's also a lot to consider for each society.
It's trying to stick space aliens with avatar element bending skills in a normal fantasy world. While the DM can make room, he shouldn't be forced to.
Including a single element is much easier, but if you open the floodgates on the whole book then you have to justify all of them.
Working on a warlock homebrew, based on the last thread's discussion of cleric/warlock options for Loa worship/service.
Would a general loa patron work better, or have individual options for individual named loa, such as Baron Samedi?
>>47787382
>new player racesblacks
-2 INT
+2 DEX
+2 CHA
as'raysis: Once per level, per day, player can claim unfair treatment due to their race. All within 20 ft radius must make Will save or flee (guards and paladins immune)
>>47788406
The biggest thing I'd say from my experience is
1. If bad things happen to your character, suck it up and accept it. Don't be a whining bitch. This isn't competitive and the tragic tale of a misfortunate character who finds their place is much better than the mary sue who always gets their way just so they'll shut the fuck up.
Though, if you're being excessively punished constantly and it's killing the fun, go and take it up with the DM I guess. But don't whine out loud so much.
>>47788406
Don't argue with the DM or other players about rules.
Don't get pissy if things don't go your way all the time.
Carefully describe your actions so as to leave little room for doubt.
I've got a player who fucks up all three of these and it really pisses me off.
>P:okay, I move my character down the hall
>Me: that provokes an opportunity attack
>pause
>roll
>attack hits,
>pause
>roll damage
>Me: you take 10 damage, which takes out your remaining hit points and knocks you unconscious
>P: oh, I took the Disengage action DM
>Me: you clearly didn't. You said you move, which would leave an action up
>P: no, no, I thought it was obvious, I took the disengage action
>Me: No Player, you moved. Then you waited until after I successfully attacked your character with an NPC and dealt enough damage to kill you to claim you took the disengage action. If at any point before I rolled attack, you changed to disengage, I would have let you. But you don't get to retcon successful attacks.
>P: fine, I guess you just have it out for my character then. This game sucks. Can't wait for my turn to DM.
>Me:I can't wait player.
I'm still waiting.
>>47788407
It's pretty easy to justify genasi, the DM doesn't even need to make a country of them. They could just be some random ass child of some woman from anywhere. So they could essentially just be strange travelers like several tieflings are.
Goliaths are easy too because they can just be in the mountains and you never have to go there if you don't want to.
>>47788069
>implying special snowflake races that distract from gameplay and destroy character development aren't reason enough
Shit, why not just make it a fanfiction club? Why even play when all of your characters are playing a stereotype fairy that's so goddamn stacked with racial bonuses it defeats the purpose of even having a class?
Is it so hard to see the issue with having characters play races so obscure and mythical that they're essentially living legends just for existing out the gate?
Do you not understand how difficult it is to build a plot when half your party can't come within a mile of civilization without inducing panic?
And of course I suppose you haven't GM'd enough of these wackjobs to understand how convoluted balancing their absurd level modifiers can get.
If you want a wacky weird party, it had better be in an already wacky weird world. Play GURPS if you want a special snowflake party in a world where nobody cares.
>>47788097
>I'm wanting to run them through the hospital escape level from the phantom pain
There's one huge issue here, and it's that you've already set yourself or your players up for disappointment with a fixed course of action. Who gets disappointed depends entirely on how lenient you are with this inevitably conflict of interest.
>>47788609
Yes, except Genasi would require your mom to have met and shagged a genie, and don't have the same sort of baggage that tieflings get.
Besides, people also already ban Tieflings for being too special snowflake and disruptive. Why is it so strange to think they'd also ban the version that has even less potential plot hooks?
I mean really, if you wanted to be a humanoid with elemental powers at first level, drawn from your bloodline, without being so monstrous that people hate you on sight, play a human and take Magic Initiate: Sorcerer.
And again, I'm not saying Genesi are the worst thing or should be universally banned, merely explaining what sorts of reasons people might have for banning them.
>>47788671
>depends on the setting.
>>47788406
Have a big personality, but don't let it drown out the other players. Nobody wants to sit in a circle and say "I guess we do this?" but nobody wants to listen to one jackass take up all the playtime either.
And don't be afraid to build a relationship with other characters. Your rogue might have a hard time getting along with the cleric, or maybe they surprisingly hit things off over a pint and instead you end up feuding with the other rogue, who you view as a showoff and an insult to the trade.
Have fun with the people there.
re genasi, aren't they basically just elemental flavored slightly magical humans? so in a fairly magical world you could fluff them as having been concieved during a storm or born in The Fiery Land of Fire or somesuch?
>>47788732
True enough, but there's a long stretch between "depends on the setting" and
"only in the multiverse"
or
"tailor the setting to the player's choices"
>>47788671
>distract and destroy character development?
Now I just know you're stupid.
>>47788732
Exactly. It depends on the setting, so why are you getting pissy about SMs banning a race that doesn't work in the setting?
>>47788768
You could, but at that point they're just weird looking Sorcerers. Genesi can be a lot of things, but they often feel tacked-on as an afterthought. You can spend time fleshing them out more, but doing that for all 4 is a lot of work when the potential genesi player is probably only going to pick the one they like best.
>>47788699
Fair enough. It would be pretty out of the ordinary for a genasi to be an adventurer, but then again adventurers are pretty out of ordinary themselves.
So far I'm only seeing problems fluffwise for them not being allowed but I was wondering if something mechanically was reason for their exclusion, since tieflings have elemental powers as well.
>>47788671
>how convoluted balancing their absurd level modifiers can get
The fuck are you talking about? There's no level modifiers in 5e, all races are balanced right from the start. Technically.
>>47788786
SMs?
I don't think space marines would limit themselves to banning genasi.
But my own autismal need to correct typos and belittle people who make them aside, arguing on the basis of setting is useless. In some settings, genasi will be common. In others, they won't be. Please provide a valid setting agnostic criticism of the race.
>>47785136
Bladelocks are the best polearm masters because they can fight fine at range while daring enemies to provoke that OA.
>>47787740
>This is completely valid. If you don't like it, you can run your own game where such things are allowed
Cool. My game will have hookers and blackjack.
> Anybody got stats for hooker and blackjack races?
>>47788827
What makes you think you have to worry about all four? Make your setting and if someone chooses a genasi, you really only need to focus on one, maybe two if you want an enemy character of the opposing element.
You don't need to write everything in advance. Remember the DM rule, don't over plan.
>>47788882
>Please give a universal reason why some people selectively don't use this thing
I think you'll just have to accept that some people don't want Genasi in their settings.
Personally, my main issue with the 5e version is that they look outlandish, but their rules are really bland. What does an Earth Genasi do? Walk really steadily?
>>47788407
>It's trying to stick space aliens with avatar element bending skills in a normal fantasy world.
So just make them benders. People live in a place with a rich connection to [element]. Sometimes a child is born among them that's linked to [element]. Done.
>>47788882
>Please provide a valid setting agnostic criticism of the race
Just look at this bullshit. Look at it.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Genasi
I don't think I have to defend why I DON'T want this mountain of snowflake in my game. Rather, I think it suitable that you defend the inclusion of this absurdity in a campaign.
>"Genasi were in a constant state of elemental energy, having no “neutral” state they could fall back on. Each genasi had a native elemental state, known as a “manifestation,” which was passed down to them through their ancestry. A few learned to master more than one manifestation. Unlike many planetouched races, genasi generally took pride in their unusual features."
>"The multiple personalities expressed by those who manifest more than one element are not completely different, in the way that personalities developed by the mentally ill are."
>"The exception to this rule are elemental tempests, sometimes known as genasi tempests, who manifest two elements simultaneously"
Explain to me how this isn't intended to derail player interaction and make my game a fucking nightmare.
>>47787709
I personally allow everything from EE except the birdshits. Cause everything except birdshits fits into my setting. Players must accept my fluff, of course
>>47788771
>Distract from gameplay and destroy character development
reading comprehension is an essential facet of modern life, young friend.
And might I add,Not an argument
>>47789015
>not my genasi
>>47789006
I do accept that anon. I just don't get why this one guy seems to be railing about including genasi in any setting at all.
>>47788876
>technically
It's a nice idea but if you're telling me that somebody should be able to play half of these (not!)homebrew races with the mountain of bonuses that come with it at the same level as the rest of the party, I feel sorry for your next campaign.
>>47789015
Do you have legit autism? How is any of that fucking with player interaction? So far you just come off as an assblasted sperg that hates fun. You must be a horrible person to play with, I feel sorry for the other players that have to put up with you.
>>47789087
Well, I'm not gonna try and guess Hus reasoning or defend it. I came to explain why some people might not like them or include them, and I've done so.
Now, to try and homebrew better Genasi rules because holy fuck these rules are so lame.
>>47789087
>my genasi
>now with EXTRA special
I don't care how you want to defend your particular interpretation. This is a question of whether or not these retarded main-antagonist teen fiction races should exist in a hypothetically average game with other players and quite frankly I don't see any reason to include them.
>>47789125
alsonot an argument
I'd really be impressed if anybody here actually had an explanation for this instead of "hurr hurr you muss' be autistic on muh 4chins"
>how is any of that fucking with player interaction
>"The multiple personalities expressed by those who manifest more than one element are not completely different, in the way that personalities developed by the mentally ill are."
You're defending That guy: the race. I'm not surprised nobody who actually GMs wants to include these things as a player race. You can smell the trouble a mile away.
>>47789057
That Guy detected.
I like how every Attribute represents a kind of non-AC defence (mainly against spells and other non-weapon-attack effects) but I prefer combat wherein the attacker rolls against the defender's defence stat, as opposed to the Saving Throw vs. Save DC that 5E uses. It was one of the few things about 4E I genuinely enjoyed. So, with that in mind, would the following variant work for 5E?
PASSIVE DEFENCES AND ACTIVE CASTING
Characters have a Strength Defence, Dexterity Defence, and so on for each Attribute. This value is equal to 13 + their Attribute modifier. If they would normally be Proficient in saves with that Attribute, they instead add their Proficiency Bonus to the appropriate Defence. Thus, for example, a Fighter would add his Proficiency Bonus to his Strength and Constitution Defences.
When a spellcaster casts a spell, they roll 1d20 + their Spellcasting stat + their Proficiency bonus. In this case, their Spellcasting stat refers to whatever Attribute previously improved the Save DCs of their spells; Intelligence for Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch Knights, and Wizards; Wisdom for Clerics, Druids, Rangers, and the Ki abilities of Monks; Charisma for Bards, Paladins, Sorcerers, and Warlocks.
A spell successfully affects the target if the spellcaster's roll is equal to or higher than relevant Defence of their target. For example, a spellcaster casting Fear would make a Spellcasting Check against the Wisdom Defence of each individual creature in a 30-foot cone, and would affect all those their roll(s) exceeded. A spellcaster casting Fireball would deal 8d6 to each enemy whose Dexterity Defence they beat, and half that to all those they failed to beat.
If a creature would normally have Advantage or Disadvantage to a saving throw, it instead applies the reverse to the enemy caster. For example, if Tordak has Advantage to Constitution saves, an enemy spellcaster who casts Finger of Death on him would roll with Disadvantage.
>>47789139
I can think of a reason, as a DM myself, to allow a player to play a genasi.
It's a pretty simple one.Because the player wants to, and absent any overriding reasons not to do so, I can make it work with my setting.
>>47789196
In advance, yes I know that Saving Throws work great in the current system. Yes, I know this isn't fixing a problem, because they're isn't a problem in the first place. This is mainly just because I prefer the active character to be making the rolls instead of the defensive character. It's a weird hang-up but I feel like it changes the tone of the game. Luck is in the hands of the aggressor when using weapons, so it's strange when luck is in the hands of the defender when resisting most kinds of spells.
>>47789185
>advocating for snowflake player races
>only arguments for it are insinuating all who disagree are /thatguy/
>>47789196
My first thought is why not just have the defense be the attribute score?
>>47789184
Read your quote first.
The genasi in 5e are made of only one element, thus no multiple personalities. You are focusing on shit from a separate genasi surface not in 5e.
>>47789184
>Citing 4E FR lore.
It sucks. No shit.
>>47789265
Damn phone meant subrace not surface.
>>47789196
>13+mod
>unless proficient, then 13+ proficiency
So let me get this straight, a level 1 Fighter with 16 Con has a 15 con defense, while a Paladin with the same has a 16? Why should proficiency make you worse?
Further, a Wizard with 10 Con would have a +0 to their saves under the old system, but a defense of 13 under the new one. They go from saving half the time to saving closer to a third. Why not just have it be 10+mod+proficiency?
The idea can work, but you're going about it in a weird way.
>>47789259
In denial.
>>47789233
Have fun with that. I'm sure the rest of your party will not regret that decision every 2-5 minutes of playtime.
>>47789318
They probably wouldn't, because we're all pretty good friends irl, and all of them are so bad at roleplaying that there's no way they could pull off the dramatic hijinks of a mary sue player.
>>47789184
That bollocks lore is from 4e or 3e. I can't speak for 3e, but in 4e not all of them had multiple manifestations, and you had to invest feats into them. It's not supposed to be multiple people, just a different perspective and tendencies, such as being fiery and passionate and impulsive, or cool and pragmatic and following the flow of things. Which I think is pretty cool. A being that has the elements ingrained in their being, that can switch their native element, being affected by it. Anything can be roleplayed badly, but I think it has just as much potential for good roleplay as anything else.
In any case, it's invalid in 5e. There are only 4 canon sorts, and have elemental magic in their blood from radiation seepage or ancestry, born to parents of other races or genasi. They can't switch between them. In addition, there are no quasi plane or dread plane genasi. Just the big 4 elements.Personally I wouldn't mind 4 quasi genasi, but the dread and such are too much.
>>47789265
Well thank god they're just one superspecialawesome race with no mental illnesses.
This doesn't change the fact that you're walking a mythical being around your setting with a bunch of tagalong player races. Unless you want to run a Captain Planet campaign.
>inb4 someone stats a Friendship Genasi
>>47789293
You have poor reading and math comprehension skills.
A +0 passes a DC 19 save 10% of the time. This means you want a +11 attack targeting a nonproficient 10 attribute to miss 10% of the time. It needs to miss on a 2, so the defense needs to be 14 base.
>>47789343
>race determines player character personality from start
>>47789355
How did you misread
> different element personalties are not like mental illness
Anyway?
>>47789398
Try again.
>Race plays an aspect in the character's personality because it changes the situation in which they were raised, how others treated them, and other lasting effects such as lifespan or inborn powers
>A creature embodying a plane that represents both a physical element and the metaphysical tendencies it is associated with has at least some inborn traits based on that, which can be embraced or denied by the character in question based on how they feel they should or shouldn't harbor them
>>47789338
>"Well in MY group, complete with perpetually teleporting goalposts"
If I were telling you how to play in YOUR group and YOUR setting I would have done myself a favor and chucked my tower out the window before I opened a reply.
This is a question of whether or not Genasi are suitable as a player race and I still have yet to hear a good reason to include them in that particular, well-contained subset of races.
Again, I'm not looking for criteria to exclude races from player control, I looking for reasons as to why they should even be considered.
> I am angry! Angry about Genasi!
Are we being baited here?
>>47789432
Do you have an argument or is this pure bait at this point?
>>47789264
My first thought is why not just have the defense be the attribute score?
Because 13 + (X-10) / 2 =/= X. A character with 10 Con and no proficiency would have 13 Con Defence my way, and 10 Con Defence your way. On the other hand, a character with 20 Con and no proficiency would have 18 Con Defence my way, and 20 Con Defence your way. Your approach would, essentially, reward characters with stats of 17 or higher and punish those with stats of 15 or less. Since most characters will have a 15 or less in most stats, that means lower Defences and thus characters failing against spells and other similar effects more often than the game anticipates by design.
>>47789293
Defence = 13 + Attribute Modifier, if you're Proficient you ALSO add your Proficiency Bonus. I think I may have phrased that poorly, you don't replace your stat modifier, you ADD your Proficiency modifier to the total if you're Proficient.
>>47789387
13 Base if my math is correct, since the person rolling wins ties when rolling against a DC.
>>47789529
Correction, punishes characters with a 14 or less. Mathematically, using either of our formulas a character with 15 or 16 in an attribute would have the same Defence.
>>47789484
Have you ever DM'd before? I doubt it, but maybe you'll surprise me. A basic, foundational rule of DMing that is taught to almost anyone asking for advice on the subject is to "say yes". Now, I won't tell you that you should never say no, but if you can't think of a valid reason to deny the player, then yes should be your answer.
So far, the only reasons you've posited are mainly that the genasi are mary sue type races, and something about not working in a setting. I've already said if you absolutely cannot fit them into your setting, then go ahead and say no. But most settings can be tweaked to allow them.
What I take issue with is the "mary sue race" deal. If you can't trust your players to play a fun game, why are you even playing with them?
Most of your arguments seem to stem from bad DMing, or playing with bad players, and I pity you, whichever is actually the case.
>>47789529
I think my math is very clear and easily generalised. You need 14 base. I don't know what's wrong with your math, other than it got the wrong answer./shrug
>>47789484
Oh well maybe one of reason is because they are an official race for d&d. And since they are official, there shouldn't be such a big problem including them into a campaign. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean players who want to play officially approved character races are bad for wanting to play something completely legal in the game.
>>47789470
>players can choose to play however they like
no shit,
the question is, again, is it LIKELY that a player won't use the elemental excuse to engage in randumb shenanigans if Genasi are included as a player race. Elementals of any variety simply have no place in player races.
>>47789196
I kind of liked it, and how there was the tanky bard I played and a friend playing a tanky swordmage.
The swordmage had ridiculous AC and reflex but crappy two other stats
The bard had ridiculous fortitude and will but crappy two other stats
Mantle of unity was fun, together we would have 42 in all stats covering for each other's weaknesses.
A lot of enemies targeted the bard just because they could only miss on a nat 1
However, this is exactly where the problem starts
So many abilities work like 'on hit, automatically stun/daze'
And the enemies can just spam that.
Not to mention AC and reflex were kind of the most important...until Orcus, where the Bard is the only untouchable one, not even having to use his anti-death-touch abilities. You dealt half my max health in damage? Wow, you got me down to 80% health! Good job, Orcus!
>>47789565
Implying he's not the bad player/GM.
>>47789529
I still don't see what the problem is with just using stat scores then. A level 0 commoner guy with average charisma (10/+0) should seems like it should fail to resist the magical power of another guy with average charisma half the time. Or, to generalize it, two people, completely equal, should have a 50/50 chance each of winning and losing in a contested spell check.
Under your system, that isn't the case. Early levels favor the defender, and once the proficiency bonus is greater than 3, the attacker is favored.
If I had to design a system like this, I'd go with this:
Defense=Attribute score+proficiency
Attacker=1d20+(attribute score-10)+proficiency
I remember seeing something on here about rolling for your array. Someone made all the combinations of a point buy array and numbered them. Then you would roll for the array you get.
Anybody have that handy? 20 minutes of Google has failed me.
>>47789597
That's retarded reasoning. I suppose we should ban all half orcs because the prayers will just be CE murderers, ban all elves because players will act snobby, and immediately kill off any tieflings because their demon ancestry means they are all clearly evil. You're just making half-assed excuses at this point.
>>47788002
Captain boring here, I love to get new options for the fighter. I like to think of them as not just good at fighting, it's like a scientist in their field. Throwing in rare weapon proficiencies, the use of superiority dice, and the ability to teach someone proficiencies are always appealing to me.
>>47787709
I've used Goliaths in my games but I ignore most of the other EE races
And I only use Goliaths because I played a Goliath sorcerer in 4e
>>47789196
Instead of the convoluted stuff you typed out, why not just add 10 to saving throws and make the caster roll spell attack against that number?
>>47789565
>Have you ever DM'd before? I doubt it, but maybe you'll surprise me.
Well we're off to a great start Al, I'm sure there's a profound argument coming up after this standard barrage on character.
>Mary sue characters
And it appears we have a major miscommunication on the field. The anon on the Pro-Genasi team seems to have mistaken a concern over Special Snowflake characters for an objection to Mary Sue races. It's one hell of a play, Bob.
>If you can't trust your players to play a fun game, why are you even playing with them
OH! And it's a brutal accusation of personal irresponsibility. It would appear that the Pro-Genasi side is lobbying for the player's right to choose. We have to wonder if he's forgotten the 'new players' angle and the 'acceptable boundaries for borderline troublesome players' escape. But let's see how he finishes!
>Most of yoru arguments seem to stem from bad DMing, or playing with bad players, and I pity you, whichever is actually the case
WHAMMO AL! He knocks it out of the ballpark with some final jabs at the opposition's ability to DM, and perhaps his group. Followed up with a heaping helping of Condescension... I don't know if he'll be able to recover. Let's see if he can manage a win with one last patronizing images!
>>47789597
>Why is your half-orc angry? Why is he so concerned about his race? Why the violent outbursts?
>Why does your dwarf act like they were raised in such a sturdy lawful environment? What do you mean they know a lot about stonework?
>Dude, what's your elf's boner about nature? And stop being pompous that you're 300 years old!
ITT: Playing a race and acting as anything as a human is bad.
Or for that matter, playing a human with a personality. After all, someone with a 'fiery' or 'passionate' personality is just using it for lolrandumb outbursts.
I've played 3.0/3-5 and Pathfinder most of my life, along with a little AD&D.
So how good is 5e? Is any real improvement of the game we all know?
Or just bullshit to sell and get the attention of casual public?
>>47788112
>criticizes less options
>in a 5E thread
>>47789770
I learned on ADnD. Played lots of 3.5 and PF.
I love 5e. It's way more open, all of the classes feel fun and everything is intuitive.
Basically the entire game is d20 + stat + prof(if applicable)
Sometimes you roll the dice 2ce and take the best result. Sometimes you take the worst result.
None of the bloat from PF where you get d20 + stat(infinitely scaling) + BAB (changes every level) + this mod + that mod + this mod - that mod.
No trained vs untrained skills. You either can do something or can do it well.
Much much less paperwork involved and lower upkeep but still the DnD you love.
>>47789766
Just stop anon. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.
>>47789387
Right. I forgot save DCs were only 8+ stuff. That would raise the need to flip it for a bonus.
Still feels a bit off in some ways, like having a Dex defense that's better than your actual AC, for example
The real question here is not about Genasi but do I get suspended in the air and do i land on the next turn after taking a running jump with Jump spell on ?
>>47789766
Okay, scanning your post for any substance behind all the irrelevant bullshit.
>new players angle
Being "that guy" with a race is something you can spot based on the player's personality. You don't need prior experience with them as a player to know if they would be a bad player or a trustworthy player, you just need prior experience with them as a person. 99% of the time, it'll work all the time. So I repeat my query: why are you inviting people to your groups that you don't trust?
>acceptable boundaries for borderline troublesome players
If one player is troublesome, again, why are you inviting him to your group? Assuming you actually have an answer for that, why are you letting one player dictate a policy for your entire group? Why not just ban genasi for the bad player until he reforms himself and let the good player have fun?
Nothing else of substance was found. Please don't embarrass yourself further.
>>47789770
Instead of all the time you would spend on rules stuff in 3.PF, you can spend time on roleplaying. Whether that's a plus or minus to you will determine whether you like 5e.
>>47789856
>do I get suspended in the air and do i land on the next turn after taking a running jump with Jump spell on ?
No. Jumping is just another form of movement and is restricted by how much movement you have left on your turn.
>>47789876
And occasionally an athletics check for distance.
>>47789835
>"Wow, buddy, you're really embarrassing yourself, better give it up at this point."
>he said, leaning back in his swivel chair after trouncing another anonymous plebian over Genasi player races with his superior knowledge of 5e on his precious /tg/ board.
>"Yeah" he whispered through the oily cloud of flavored vape smoke pouring forth from his cheeto-dusted mouth, "Totally humiliated"
>>47789588
Huh, looks like you're absolutely correct. 14 + Defence is required, not 13 + Defence. Well, it's a good thing I ran this by /tg/ before homebrewing it in my campaign. Thank you.
>>47789620
>However, this is exactly where the problem starts
>So many abilities work like 'on hit, automatically stun/daze'
There's no functional difference between "Defender makes a Con save based on Attacker's Save DC, if they fail X happens" and "Attacker makes a Spell Attack against Defender's Con Defence, if they succeed X happens". Saving throws are just attack rolls where the d20 randomization comes from the defender, not the attacker. Kinda like the difference between "Rolled Attack vs. Static AC" and "Static Attack vs. Rolled Defence".
>>47789675
>I still don't see what the problem is with just using stat scores then.
For the same reason that Save DC is (8 + Attribute Modifier + Proficiency Bonus) in 5E, and not just (Attribute Score + Proficiency Bonus). Doing so would change the expected Save DC of abilities as they're presented in the book, which is not what I'm trying to do.
>>47789750
>Instead of the convoluted stuff you typed out, why not just add 10 to saving throws and make the caster roll spell attack against that number?
That's... what I did, anon. With 14 + Modifier as the Defence, naturally, because 10 + Mod would make spells hit more often. I originally said 13 + Modifier, but >>47789588 pointed out I was off by one.
Has anyone used the Artifact shit?
>>47789917
I think my post has become more of a general criticism of 5e's spell save DC numbers.
If I had to redo the entire system, I would do what I just described, to make it so that characters of equal level and attribute are both equally likely to win the contest.
>>47788699
Personally I allow all those "human with a touch of x" races in my homebrew setting by just treating them as different ethnicities of human that may have had a super-distant ancestor
Tieflings are tan, black-haired and with red eyes
Aasimar are pale and platinum-blonde with blue eyes
Water genasi are light-skinned and usually have straight hair that always looks wet and green eyes
And so on
All this complaining about genasi has inspired me to make a genasi character for a game I'm joining soon. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intent of the conversation but Fire Genasi Eldritch Knight with nothing but fire spells here I come, optimisation be damned.
What races aren't meme races at this point?
I've seen people seriously butthurt about tieflings, dragonborn,gnomes, elves, and now genasi.
What's next? Fuck you human pickers. get some originality instead of jumping on the meme bandwagon of HFY stories.
>>47789913
Way to prove him right, retard.
>>47789958
Sure, but I'm specifically not trying to rebalance Save DC system with my homebrew, just make it so that the caster rolls instead of the target.I think Save DCs are fine in 5E because casters will almost always be using their highest stat and their proficiency modifier to determine the DC, whereas the defender might often be using one of their lowest stats, and without Proficiency about 66% of the time. So having the base DC start at 8 offsets that somewhat unfair advantage a little.
>>47789196
You could just treat atreibute saves as a form of AC and make them 10+mod adding proficiency when appropriate and just have casters always roll against that with advantage/disadvantage as you said
Simple and balanced IMO
>>47787709
>>47787759
>>47787810
>>47788099
>>47788228
Genasi are from Planescape, they were retconned into 3e Forgotten Realms.
>>47789993
Human players were so common in our groups, one of our DMs made setting with no humans so for variety. So many people started bitching about having to play another race and bitched about how they hated they couldn't get feats at level one and have to reach level four before they can do what they want. I think the extra feat for optimization is why so many pick human.
>>47790059
I usually pick noncombat or proficiency feats when I pick variant human, like keen mind
And I like the fact that you can customize your human to be whatever you want
>>47789840
It puts a spotlight on the fact that it's hard to land a saving throw effect.
>>47789512
yes
but this board is so easy to bait i'm not even mad about it being in every thread at this point. it just comes with the territory of reading /tg/.
>>47790056
I remember first seeing them in a 3e FR book. My bad.
If they'd support anything even remotely close to the way they support FR, maybe I'd know that.
>>47789993
In my day it was humans-only, 4d6 drop highest for stats, and a paddlin' for anyone who cracked a smile at the table. You faggots and your "fun" fill me with righteous contempt. Tabletop is supposed to be a grim hard slog, not some spoonfeeding hugbox.
>>47790000
>>47790059
It's definitely a balance issue.
>>47789917
You wrote it out in a funny way if you meant what I typed. The interactions will be interesting when now stuff like Bless makes a difference for the wizard's success rate on Fireball.
>>47789750
>>47790017
>Simple and balanced IMO
Simple, yes, but not balanced. Defences need to be 14 + Mod, not 10 + Mod, otherwise spells hit too often. My suggested homebrew isn't complicated, if it looks 'wordy' it's because I took the time to explicitly state how it interacts with Saving Throw Proficiency, Advantage, Disadvantage, and multi-target spells.
>>47790201
Your stuff is going to be thrown off by the various effects which increase spell attack affecting the accuracy of spells they previously did not. The various ways that ranged spell attacks can have disadvantage will take the potency out of a lot of things one could previously do with an enemy within 5 feet.
What are some less benign or outright evil paths to enlightenment?
I'm playing a monk right now who's still low enough of a level that he doesn't quite have his philosophy figured out. I very much WANT him to be a philosophical monk (I realize you can flavor shit like ki and jumping between shadows as other things, I just don't plan to), but his current actions/allignment/situation don't really paint for me a "harmony with nature" type of belief system.
He's currently a thief in a group of thieves, something that probably isn't going to stop any time soon. He's not exactly evil yet (or at least he's not sadistic, cruel, or petty) more of a dickish neutral. I'm looking for a philosophy that makes at least some sense, and while it doesn't need to line up perfectly with his current dickass thief nature it doesn't really condemn it either.
>>47787454
>We're perfectly fine with Humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, and the standard stuff like that.
no we arent. in fact i hate elfs and dwarfs and halfings. my campaign does not have any of those races.
>>47790182
That's a very interesting point. I'd probably revise Bless to say the following:
>You bless up to three creatures of your choice within range. Whenever a target makes an attack roll or resists an effect using a Defence before the spell ends, the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the attack roll or to their Defence against that effect.
Functionally the same but using different language.
>>47790231
Who says that 'Ranged Spell Attack' and 'Spellcasting Check' are the same thing? Ranged Spell Attacks target Armour Class. Spellcasting Checks target Attribute Defences. The only things that affect Spellcasting Checks are things that would affect Save DCs.
>>47790257
Nature itself is cruel.
The strong eat the weak, and thrive. The weak will always die off, to be replaced by their betters. As one of the strong, your duty is to take what you want, kill who you want, and to sow chaos. In doing this, the world will be made stronger, or perish. There is no room for the weak in the universe.
>>47790262
Removing character choices...
Sounds like a shit campaign.
>>47790291
Just prepping you for the questions that would inevitably come up, if nothing else.
which is more loli- human or elf?
>>47790107
Yeah, I'm still not sure why WotC is afraid of their non-FR settings. At least ravenloft has been getting plugs in the last few years.
But that is part of why FR purists get upset with people who bring up shit like Genasi, Goliaths, and the multitude of other races retconned into the setting with 3e and 4e.
For example Aasimar and Dragonborn were also retconned into the setting, and Tieflings in the FR tend to be exceptionally rare and less tiefling and more quarter-fiend, or half-elf half-demon.
While Volo's Guide to Monsters bringing in proper Orcs as player characters, as well as Firbolgs does fit classic realms, where Orcs are about as varied as humans are in terms of cultures, and Firbolgs are some of the most honorable mother fuckers in the setting.To go on unnecessarily about lore: they also tend to have more powerful mutations, the example of Tieflings with wings in the SCAG is based on the most famous of the elven cambions, who inherited her father's balor strength, wings, and affinity for fire magic, while still appearing as a young elven woman. While I can't know for sure, I assume the "Devil's Tongue" variant is also partially based off of the mutation her son had, as he was noted for being incredibly feeble, yet developed incredible psionic capabilities as he grew older.Which goes into more lore on how psionics in Faerun has always been a tricky subject, ranging from either "not-existing in normal races" to "it's a rare mutation" to "let's not talk about psionics in Faerun."
>>47790257
"UNIVERSE IS MEANINGLESS, PARTY ON"
>>47790320
Elf.
>>47790320
Elf, easily.
>>47790320
If you go by chest size, elf.
If you go by actual appearance, the long limbs and sharp features elves have tend to make them look closer to a victoria's secret model than a loli.
>>47790320
Elf
Going to be rolling a cutie elf loli?
>>47790319
Thank you! It's something I'll keep in mind when I use these rules.
>>47789917
Still, the power creep in 4e made it so that you could have enemies which could only miss you on a nat 1, and will constantly apply those effects on hit.
Here, the saves are usually doable for the party, even for someone with the worst stat in something.
Honestly though, that's a different issue.
I think it's a good idea overall, I'd rather have the superslow golem attacking dex defence than AC (Massive crushing stone fist is crappy against platemail apparently?)
On the other hand, I don't really like the idea of having a whole load of defences, and save throws are simple enough as they are now, working pretty much like skills.
>>47790257
Harmony with one's own nature. Your monk is a thief. Perhaps he's felt conflicted about it because people told him monks are supposed to be good. Eventually though, he starts to accept himself for what he is, and looks past the concepts of good and evil, ownership and law, as distractions. There is only the purity of self improvement, and he's going to reach perfection: the world's perfect thief.
>>47790333
I can't wait to see what they do with firbolgs. Since they were able to wield two handed weapons in one hand during AD&D, it gives me hope that the might include oversized weapons and the monkey grip feat. Maybe even making the Goliath's lifting ability to allow them to use big weapons too.
>>47790201
It is balanced, just look at the active defense variant rule where you exchange AC for AC-10+1d20, it's literally the same thing just in reverse, same as making a passive skill check, you take 10 and add your mod
And if you have proficiency in the save you add proficiency
14+mod is like giving everyone proficiency in all saves, it makes magic basically useless
>>47790257
"In a peaceful world without chaotic or evil things, the world will stagnate as there's no competition and no drive to better yourselves. People will grow complacant and never strive to better themselves, the world will never progress. Another more ambitious nation will move in and cull the people, to work towards its own goal."
Or, basically
"Without conflict or strife, there can be no progress."
>>47789819
Cool. Hah! You are like me, I also learned playing AD&D and then played a lot of 3.5.
Soooo my main concern is about balance now. Since it looks like it's fun enough and you have enough freedom to make your character.
Are wizards still god tier far above everything else?
>>47790434
DC 18 vs. +7 to a saving throw = 50% chance to succeed
Spell Attack +10 vs. 21 save defense or whatever = 50% chance to succeed
I personally think it's a pointless change but he got the math right. I'd have the player's roll the enemy's saving throw instead of tweaking stat blocks. Just tell the DM the d20 roll and let him do the math behind the screen.
>>47790434
But you're forgetting that the DC of saves is only 8+proficiency and mods.
If you just flip it so that the saving throw is 10+ mods, and the DC is set by a roll+mods, then you've effectively increased the DC of all saves.
If a DC was 13 before, that means it's rolling an average of 15 now. If the save was rolling an average of 15, it's now set at a 15 all the time.
You see why the bump is needed?
Is it important to max Wis for a Moon Druid? I feel like I'm mostly gonna be spamming buffs that don't really require a spell DC and then wild shape as often as I can. I feel like halfling would fit the flavor, but I can't get 16 wis off of pointbuy unless I get the super secret telepathic ghostwise one.
>>47789099
Mountain of bonuses? I admit I hadn't personally read their features before because playing one never interested me nor one of my players, but they don't seem really unbalanced. Two of them get a ribbon and a 2nd level utility spell per day, admittedly very good 2nd level spells but nothing broken here. The other two have a resistance, a minor mechanical benefit, a cantrip and 1st level spell cast as 2nd. Nothing broken here either...
>>47790483
Lore bard is probably just as good as the high-tier wizard archetypes. The gap between classes is much narrower. If you're familiar with the 3.5 tiers, nothing below tier 4 anymore and very things are below tier 3, relatively.
>>47790483
Not really. Wizards are still strong, but they aren't demi-gods like in 3.5. Spells are no longer a garuntee of power, and the martial caster disparity has been mostly fixed. Everyone can bring something to the table and contribute
>>47790500
You probably won't be able to wildshape 24/7 so you may as well be good at casting when you can't claw things.
>>47790522
I'd argue that with the use of 3.5 tiers, most things in 5e fall in tiers 3 or 4. Maybe an optimized Bard or Wizard might just break into tier 2, but that's still a sizable improvement from 3.5, especially since it's even more dependent on optimization to reach those points.
In my campaign, everyone plays amorphous entities. Race is just a fabrication that they broadcast telepathically.
>>47790483
Wizards aren't nearly as powerful in 5e. Hell most things in5e can't be as strong or game breaking as 3.5. 5e is fun because it speeds shit along, however there is surprising lack of content for character customization as far as items and feats go. If you like role-playing you'll enjoy it, but if you like to min!ax for awesome damage or abilities you'll be disappointed.
>>47790500
Wis also increases how many spells you can prepare. Moon druids are the "so you rolled shit stats"class, though.
>>47790257
Right, bear with me, this is some half-remembered shit and google isn't helping. Slavoj Zizek talks about some Japanese (i think) philosopher who used either buddhism or taoism to "justify" (explain? help people commit?) violence in the context of WW2. The idea is that you lose the concept of self, so instead of "i am stabbing you", it's "in the eternal dance of the universe, this knife is going into your guts and my hand happens to be on the other end of it". It's basically (as i understand it) a way of using these mystical ideas to allow yourself to kill by getting into the right mindset.
Hey, folks? Anyone here at all familiar with Ravenloft in its 3.5 edition? Long story short, I want to update the "Brutes and Banshees" fan-rework of the Caliban to a 5e race, and I could use some feedback on making it balanced.
>>47790611
For the classes that have Wish, tier 1 is still possible just because of Wish's ability to circumvent expensive material components and long casting times on some other powerful spells.
>>47790548
There's few enough really broken things that it's possible to actually address, fix, or account for them all. It's nice.
>>47790722
Not really. The Tier guide says it best when they say Tier 1 is the countries with thousands of nukes, while Tier 2 is the countries with a dozen.
Yeah, Wizards and Bards have a handful of game-breaking tricks, but that's still only tier 2 at best.
>>47790722
I'd actually say there's few enough things broken that I'd rate them tier 2 anyway.
>>47790483
The only tier list you need to know is this:
>Top Tier:
Bards
Clerics
Druids
Rogues
Sorcerers
Warlocks
Wizards
>Bottom Tier
Paladins
Monks
Fighters
Barbarians
Rangers
Combat is piss easy in this game, so the main thing determining tiers is out of combat utility.
>>47790813
Bait, but switch sorcerers and rangers. The sorcerer list locks them out of all the broken caster tricks. Rangers get pass without trace.
>>47790842
Are you responding to my correct b8 with incorrect b8?
>>47788470
Why the charisma bump?
>>47790483
Strong? Yes. Godlike? No. If I were to make a list, I'd say
High Tier: Bard, Cleric, Warlock, Wizard
Mid Tier: Everything else
Low Tier: Monk, Barbarian
Shit: Ranger
But then again, the difference between the Cleric (the strongest IMO) and the Monk/Barbarian is not big at all. Unfortunately, the only broken class is the Ranger, and in the wrong way.
>>47790898
They a good boy who dindu nuffin turning their life around.
>>47790921
I'd say Monk, Barbarian, Cleric, and Warlock all fall in Mid Tier, and Ranger is only Low.
>>47790921
I agree with most of this but Warlock is definitely not high tier, this spot should be for (Moon) Druid.
You pretty much get everything you want from Warlock after 2 levels and the rest they get really isn't great compared to other casters.
>>47790995
Some of the invocations are really baller though. And the pacts justify going up to three levels.
>>47789355
Reading through this thread made me want to tell you you're wrong. A genasi is about the equivalent of a tiefling or aasimar. One of which is a player race
>>47790995
Part of why I put the Warlock as high tier was that. It's the best dip class, and it powers up a lot of mid tiers with just a couple of levels. The ways a Warlock can empower a Sorcerer/Rogue/etc are too good to ignore it.
>>47791028
They may be good, but just can't compare to the huge spelllists of Druids, Clerics, Wizards or Bards.
Warlocks are really limited on what they can do, regardless of what pact or boon you choose. The only things they really have going for them is Eldritch Blast and their fluff.
>>47791065
Pact of the Chain is actually incredibly versatile, one of the most versatile features in the game.
Then you've got the invocations that let you cast certain first level spells at will, which is also great. Damage wise, you're always going to be fine because of Eldritch Blast, so you're free to pick spells with tons of utility. Since you're on a short rest recharge, you just need someone in your party to know rope trick or tiny hut and you're almost always at full power.
Warlocks are definitely underrated by the general community IMO.
>>47790921
Why's barbarian low tier?
I suppose a lot of the mid-level abilities kind of suck, but the late and early ones are good.
At least in the early game I always find they're the best tanks.
>>47790114
It sure would suck to want to play a heroic character. I guess that's why Conan had flabby arms right?
How would you guys impliment called shots?
We just use the pathfinder rules for it.
So what would the easiest method to build a single monk encounter to put up against a six person party? It's more a show of force from a BBEG than anything, so the party can lose without wiping.
>>47791258
Do you mean a monk or a mook?
Legendary Actions. The monk comes at them after the party is exhausted from another day's adventuring, in the middle of a rest.
>>47791142
Well I'm not saying they are bad. I just think they are not as good as most other casters because of their limited spelllist. Their utility isn't that high, but they make up for it in dps.
Compare them to Bards who are also listed in high tier. Not only do they get a huge amount of spells, some even chosen from all spelllists, but they also get a ton of great features for combat or outside of it. Infact they get so many things that they would probably still be viable without spellcasting.
>>47791272
Monk. But legendary actions does seem like the best route.
>>47791258
Make a lot of combat/dungeon hazards. The party will strugle to overcome them but the monk can easily avoid them by having great dex saves and can walk along walls etc.
>>47787382
Honestly the only race I really want to see made offically is warforged. Minotaur would also be cool. Outside of that, I'm fine with whatever new races come from the new MM in November. Just as long as none of those furry races get officially released.
are there stats for a cougar?
>>47791227
my players describe where they want to hit and how, if the hit reduces the opponent life to 0, the part was hit depending on how much damage the part is severed
if you want more mechanical options go for a disadvantage roll or -10, if you hit and your damage is more than the enemy con score you cut that part
>>47791381
There are stats for a rare black cougar variety called a panther.
>>47791368
>Just as long as none of those furry races get officially released.
:^)
>>47791368
Catfolk is almost a given, unfortunately. Some designer replied a tweet from a furfag not long ago.
>>47791399
>-10 For any called shot location
No.
An arm is easier to hit than an eye.
A head is harder to hit than a leg.
-10 is very, very steep too, in 5e.
Playing in my first 5e game this week. I've done a fair whack of 3.5 and PF (among other things) and I've always enjoyed character optimisation, although funnily enough I don't tend to play very powergamery at the table. I just like to be able to be good at something when it's appropriate for the char. That said, using a human (either variant) and the standard stat array (15,14,13,12,10,8) for a polearm focussed melee character starting at level 6 using the Tunnel Fighter style, am I going to enjoy a Fighter or Paladin more, or perhaps a combination of both. Haven't poked around at the fighter's options much so any information there would be great, but the Paladin's Oath of Vengeance or Oath of Ancients definitely looks neat. Suggestions? Secondly, what kind of stats should I aim at and how would I achieve them (feats, racial trait etc)?
>>47791227
Called shots are pretty much the battle master's combat maneuvers. Hitting an ankle? Trip shot. Hitting the hand? Disarming strike.
>>47791467
Yes, but it's retarded that only certain class archetypes or people who waste a feat on it can hit a specific bodypart.
>>47791455
A Battlemaster Fighter with a polearm and tunnel rat could seriously lock down an area. Polearm mastery is a nice feat for that.
>>47791488
Fighter can do it normally, everyone else do it at a disadvantage.
There, both options can coexist.
>>47791488
Well, then take a page from the Battlemaster and make other called shots toned-down versions. The Trip maneuver can hit an ankle to deal damage and knock someone down, but you can do the same with a shove for no damage.
I'd suggest something similar for called shots. Contested checks, and if it's something particularly difficult, disadvantage on it as well.
>>47791455
If you're going to use Tunnel Fighter I would recommend Battlemaster.
Both Paladin and Fighter are great but Paladins often use their bonus actions for spells while the Fighter has almost no use for them unless you dual wield, so Tunnel Fighter works great for them.
I personally think that Tunnel Fighter is too strong for a fighting style compared to the others, but it's only in UA and maybe I'm wrong.
>>47791423
>>47791429
Welp shit.
Oh well, maybe I'll get lucky and not end up at a table with a gay furry character hitting on my character again. That happened literally the first time I even played a pathfinder game in the local game shop. It was awkward to say the least.
>>47791631Boys make the best blows tho
>>47791528
Disadvantage is shit.
Let me just double my chances of a critfail AND make it impossible to ever get advantage even if i cancel the disadvantage.
>>47791689
Go back to PF.
>>47791689
Crit fails aren't a thing in 5e
I mean, you can make it funny when someone crit fails but it has no mechanical impact
>party strikes a deal with a vampire
>helps vampire break out of prison
>party Druid realizes what monstrosity they're working with and locks it up behind Daylight spells
>party manage to fight off the crazily overpowered NPC that the vampire was going to 1v1
>the Wizard goes back and frees the vampire while the party fights BBEG without knowing what the Wizard is doing
>Wizard gets betrayed by vampire (surprise) and gets sucked dry
>party doesn't realize what the Wizard just unleashed on the world and breaks into storeroom, getting their gear back
>Barbarian picks up an obviously evil sword that the vampire was talking about (he needed it to foil the Daylight spells holding him prisoner, or so he said)
>while Bard + Druid finds the Wizard's body the Barbarian is getting mind controlled by two hilariously evil beings inhabiting the sword
>party sneaks out of their dungeon and rushes to a nearby Druidic circle to get the Wizard reincarnated
>Wizard reincarnates as a Wood Elf Female (previously Human Male), much to his(?) dismay
>Wizard forced to work off his new debt to the Druids, thought it helped that the party Druid previously donated all of his money without asking anything in return
>Barbarian is suspiciously absent during reincarnation ritual
>turns out he was just waiting until they were done before he rushes in and starts swinging at the whole upper circle of Druids present
>gets bodied in one turn, Druids are furious, sacred tree almost destroyed in the fighting
>Barbarian gets resurrected and quite possibly geas'd to spend his life finding a way to destroy the sword
>Vampire manages to get away in the end by hiding in a toilet (no Daylight spells down there) and then escapes into the sewers
Sometimes you just get those sessions where a whole campaign worth of events happen, this was certainly one of them.
>>47791689
Yeah, it's almost like it's supposed to be a disadvantage or something.
>>47791488
Every class can take marital adept.
classic
>>47791488
Everyone can use a shove
Everyone can use the variant disarm rule
Everyone can take martial adept
The subclass that specializes in technical combat is better at technical combat
All is working as intended
>>47791423
Chris, please please have meant Shifters, the least shit possibility.
>>47792123
If Shifters ever come out, it'll be once Eberron gets its 5th edition debut, if ever.
>>47792123
Fingers crossed here bud
Because no way in hell I'm allowing non-evil raksasha and I don't use alignment but I will just for that
And I'm a super permissive guy
So do you use facing or flanking in your games? Do you feel either of them give out advantage freely, or unbalance the game? Are they needed?
>>47792226
I use facing, so that you get advantage if you attack enemies from behind and makes positioning more important.
Flanking I don't use though, it makes getting advantage way too easy and makes larger numbers of enemies/PCs just way too strong.
>>47792226
I used flanking... and yeah, it gave advantage way too easily. Suddenly every battle would swing towards which side had more combatants. I also felt that it made Pack Tactics not such an important thing, whereas otherwise it's huge. Players would never use the inspiration I gave them, either.
>>47788127
It works great on paper, but even a single, dedicated idiot on the player side can drag an entire party into an unwinnable fight.
I tried it once with a group I was DMing for. One player accused me of putting them in a situation they couldn't win via fighting and that escaping wasn't fun because it wasn't combat, and two others decided to try and fight because "[we] are good characters, those guys are evil, so we HAVE to stop them!" The others were bemused, and were trying to decide between leaving the retard-roundup to be butchered, or if they would stay and die.
With that in mind, try to structure it so that they are to be captured alive, so that if they try to fight and all get blown out, when they recover/wake up/are being transported to wherever, they have a chance to escape or be rescued, and continue the story from a slightly different angle.
>>47792143
They might just shoehorn them into FR like they did so many other races from 3e-forward.
The fuckers.
>>47792361
Hope not. I really want Eberron, not because I like the setting but because I like how all living things have a meaning other than "OUR GOD WANTS WAR SO WE FIGHT LIKE RETARDS!"
>>47792379
I really want Eberron too but there's barely a peep out of Keith Baker about it, which makes it seem unlikely in the near future.
>>47788112
Isn't this the 5e general..? If you're the type of person who thinks it's always better to have more options, you know 3.5 and Pathfinder still exist, right?
Or you could cut to the chase and just play GURPS.
Can someone post that PDF of an anon's homebrew race for merfolk.
I think he named them Thalassians or something like that.
>>47792493
Sea elves in... Planeshit Zendikar?
>>47790420
It'll be interesting to see if they keep the whole "Firbolgs break into a cold sweat when they lie" thing too.
>>47791423
>>47792361
With FR there are the mutant jaguar people of maztica, and they can potentially shoehorn in proper catfolk through something in relation to Sharess/Bast, but that would require them to acknowledge Sharess exists, and the current D&D team has been trying VERY hard to avoid mentioning her.
I want to say there's another cat-person race from FR, but I honestly can't think of what it would be.
>>47791825
well said
>>47792493
just go back into the last thread
>>47792296
Not him, but I feel like that's more a problem of players and GM not agreeing on the same 'tone' of game. Some people expect to play heroic badasses who can, and should, be able to tackle whatever challenges come their way. Others might consider their character far more mundane, and try to avoid or circumvent combat whenever possible. That's really something you should bring up with your players before a game starts.
My group, for example, prefers our campaigns to be NobleDark in terms of tone. That is, the world is dangerous and filled with horrors, but the characters are particularly capable individuals who can (and do) fight and win against these threats. Not every fight is easy, but pretty much any fight CAN be won in theory, and it's usually just a matter of what resources are lost and what the long term consequences for doing so are.
>>47791799
Critfails exist in combat.
Read the rules.
>>47792703
Why would they avoid to mention Sharess? It's not like other Pantheons, based in historical real life, has someone like her.
>>47792226
If you fight using terrain other than a 10x10 white room flanking and facing become super tactical. I also throw in 4th ed's AoO on leaving -any- threatened square.
>>47792466
You dot tell somebody who wants a different flavor of ice cream to go check out the sandwhich shop.
>>47792803
To my limited credit, in the planning stages of the plot and what sort of game it would be, I did tell them there may be instances where fleeing from a powerful enemy is absolutely an option, and that they could try to use those outs to keep growing stronger or finding secretive methods of disempowering them before a rematch.
It was only my second game, though, and with two players brand new to RPGs in any form (one of whom had no interest in playing, and was being press ganged into it by an SO), and one that had played nothing but 100% homebrew "do whatever" campaigns, I bit off more than I could chew. I should have focused more on basics and managing player expectations than trying to add weird gameplay elements.
>>47792890
Honestly dude, I dunno. I would think the times where the goddess of sex being taboo to mention would be behind us, but they avoided all mentions to her in the PHB (who cares), DMG (meh, but fair enough), and the SCAG. The SCAG being particularly silly given it mentions fucking Siamorphe and the Red Knight, but not Sharess.
>>47787454
Speak for yourself, I like it when settings don't have the standard "dwarf, elf, human, orc, halfling" garbage and at least try to come up with original races that aren't half-assed shoehorns. Unfortunately that shit's hard to come across.
>>47792772
Thanks, didn't notice it was reposted there.
Something I never really got with D&D, why play it when most games never make it past level 10? Why would you want to play a game where you'll never be able to utilize all of your class's abilities, like the ones you get at level 20?
>>47788671
Do you play the same game as us?
Elves, dwarves and halflings are boring to a lot of people. They don't want to play some dead horse Tolkien bullshit, they just want to be a green dude with gills or a big grey bald dude. What's so wrong with that? With the exception of Aarakocra's flight which can be overpowered in some campaigns and Drow's/Duergar's sunlight sensitivity which can be crippling in some campaigns, all of the races are pretty balanced.
If anything, human is the race that shouldn't be allowed. Who the fuck plays a fantasy game as themselves?
>>47793040
Cause everyone always wishes for that one campaign that can last forever. From 1-20. Plus level 10 characters are difficult to set up doubly for casters.
>>47787382
More undead races
>>47789931
I've never heard of that artifact.
Help me make a backstory for my thief turned treasure hunter.
>>47793083
people who want feats at level 1
if you had a free feat then I'm sure there would be a lot less humans (if variant was somehow reworked)
>>47793159
Only twinks give a shit about that. You're supposed to be playing a character, not a build some nerds on the Internet crafted for you.
I meant specifically variant humans. If you want to play a normal human, go ahead, but that's pretty lame of you. Variant human should just never be allowed. Stop being a faggot.
>>47793159
I think just having a feat at first or even second level would massively cut down on the number of people playing humans.
Even outside of power feats for a specific 'build' or whatever, there's just a lot of stuff there that can be a really neat addition to a character. For example, taking Keen Mind for the mental benefits makes a lot more sense when it's your first feat and can be part of your background rather than something you just sort of pick up. Similarly, clever use of Magic Initiate can help bend fluff to where you need it for different caster classes, like making a Fiend-blooded Sorcerer by picking it up for Warlock.
>>47793148
mine's story is he was a hunter/warrior from chult and got sent to explore some shit for his tribe (in my campaigns case, elemental imbalance via pota), but in turn was captured by slavers, but then was rescued by an old thief who taught him the trade.
he's 6'3" and built like a linebacker, but strangely stealthy as well. he doesn't really like lying or stealing, except in a treasure hunting capacity. though he has snuck around elemental temples plenty.
i imagine in the end, he will be too changed by all of his travels to really fit in in chult anymore, so he's a bit tragic.
>>47793191
lol
>>47792833
>>47793214
Did you commission this artwork? It looks awesome.
>>47793249
no just found it later, but it seemed really fitting.
