Why are gnomes and halflings different species? How would you even tell them apart in a crowd? Do they interbreed? Do you incorporate both gnomes and halflings in your games?
>>47766256
Gnomes are fey and halflings are not. They're different species for the exact same reason elves and humans are different species. It's not complicated.
The difference is I'd fuck a halfling.
Halflings generally look like small Humans with hairy feet.
Gnomes generally look like small anime characters with crazy eyes.
>>47766256
Gnomes are somewhat plumper and proportioned differently. They have larger noses and eyes, wider faces, and round ears. They also tend to be slightly taller. Their feet aren't notably hairy.
Halflings, meanwhile, are just proportioned exactly like humans, but only around half as tall, and with pointed ears and big hairy feet - they don't tend to wear shoes.
Gnomes.
>>47766358
Halflings.
Any questions?
>>47766353
If Halflings are fey, why don't they have the round ears? Why do Gnomes have the round ears if they're fey?
>>47766358
>>47766371
This is even worse, they just look like regular humans and elves now.
>>47766383
Neither gnomes nor halflings are fey, in my setting. Pointed ears also doesn't necessarily mean you're fey, it just means that your race has pointed ears.
>>47766588
What's the difference then? Is it just black people vs white people when it comes to gnomes and halflings?
>>47766256
halflings are half sized humans. gnomes are half sized dwarves.
Which cost more? I need a prostitute that can fit in a half-orc's haversack.
>>47766676
More like the difference between various human species, like h. neanderthalis, h. antecessor, and so on.
In my setting, gnomes are technological miracle workers. They're basically the tinker gnomes from DragonLance. Somewhat less insane and autistic, but the point is that they are innovative and creative at least as much as humans - potentially even moreso, in fact, the difference being that humans tend to innovate for a purpose whereas gnomes tend to innovate for the sake of innovation. A human invents a steam engine to make hauling mine carts easier; a gnome might do the same because he was bored and had a bunch of spare parts lying around his workshop. Then he forgets to tell anyone about the steam engine because, having made that, he wasn't that interested in it anymore. This tendency also exists in gnomish culture as a whole - they like trying new things and do so for the sake of new experience. They're sensation addicts.
Halflings, meanwhile, tend to be nomads. They don't like staying in one place for long. They have tight-knit clans that don't easily welcome outsiders, even other halflings from different clans. They're basically gypsies and all that that entails. But they're also actually one of the most widespread and well-travelled races. After all, my world is a world of magic, and halflings like to wander. They've known about the New World for ages and can be found even in the furthest Oriental kingdoms.
Also it is a BAD idea to abuse a halfling clan. Hurt one halfling and EVERY halfling in the clan takes offense. And as much as the clans don't like each other all that much, they unite against common enemies.
Gnomes are from myths, Halflings are from Tolkien.
>>47766799
This. Gotta get my mid-dungeon blowies on after the first couple of battles. I got needs.
>>47766256
I just don't know. I've never, ever seen a satisfactory explanation of why both gnomes and halflings need to exist.
>>47767234
Sacred cows. They tried to kill the beast in 4e and people whined until Gnomes were brought back.
Are tieflings still a core race in 5e? I liked them.
Gnomes.
Halflings.
gnomes are no more then 2ft tall.
>>47767234
Halflings are basically short humans with a different culture.
Gnomes are the token "weird race." They're the ones with all the crazy hair colors and styles, the odd proportions, and the race wide need for new sensations. In Pathfinder, an old Gnome can literally die of boredom, for example. Some settings have all Gnomes be tech geniuses, or an entire race of mad scientists with little common sense. Some settings have them as part of the Fey and all the potential strangeness that can come with that.
While Halflings are the token short race, Gnomes are the token weirdos. Plus it's nice to have two short races so you have at least some options rather than being stuck with one or the other.
>>47766371
>Any questions?
Yes.
Why the fuck do you need both?
>>47767348
4e made many decisions.
Many of these were terrible.
It became difficult to tell which were the terrible decisions and which were okay.
Getting rid of gnomes was NOT one of the bad decisions.
Making a fucking stupid cartoon where the gnome talks and the tiefling has a draenei accent WAS one of the bad decisions.
Similarly, leaving Tieflings in the main book of 5e was...eh, it was an okay decision.
Staying with 4e's idea that, rather than being varied, they just all looked like draenei, was a fucking horrible decision.
Why can there only be one short race when there are dozens of elves that might only differentiate in how often they are born with blond hair and what geographic region (Not environment, but region) they *might* live in.
Gnomes are trash and I wish they'd fuck off forever
God how I hate them
In the game in which I am a player, Gnomes exist, much to my chagrin. They are forest-dwelling tricksters and are a little bit crazy because they're operating a little closer to the fey than is healthy. They're very bright. They're like 2-3ft tall. In this game, halflings are just Hobbits, physically, being 4ft tall with hairy feet. They are culturally as varied as the humans are, with some staying in their tiny villages and some venturing across the land.
In the game I DM, Gnomes do not exist, and it is wonderful. Halflings are more or less as above. No clever subversion of tropes here.
Death to Gnomes.
>>47766256
>Do you incorporate both gnomes and halflings in your games?
Fantasy Craft rolls them both into "Pech", defaulting basically to the halfling stereotypes, but with the option of taking a racial feat that's more gnome-y. In my FC game, they're all mostly of the halfling variety, with "country Pech" being farmers with a penchant for windmills and flowers, and "urban Pech" being fucking little shits who'll slit your throats if you look at them funny.
>>47768580
Angry GM is that you?
>>47766256
We need gnomes, because they're better than halflings and grognards can't let halflings go even though they're awful in every way conceivable.
>>47767521
Why would you need a comparison photo between a Gnome and a Balor?
>>47767747
>Similarly, leaving Tieflings in the main book of 5e was...eh, it was an okay decision.
People clearly like them.
Do you hate fun?
So what's the difference between halflings andkender. EOne is generally universally hated while the other is tolerated.
>>47769512
>So what's the difference between halflings and kender
In The Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings (I just noticed that both races got lumped into the same book, funnily enough) for AD&D 2E, the edition where kender originated, kender are the Krynnish version of a halfling. There aren't any native halflings on Krynn, and any kender encountered elsewhere can trace their roots to Krynn.
I thought I had a scan to paste a page out of, but I guess not.
>>47768580
This
I hate Gnomes with a passion, and "technological miracle workers" or santas little helpers from the feywild, don't fit in a fantasy setting that's not populated by unicorns and rainbows.
Hobbits as an agrarian, or river dwelling human off shoot, fulfill the purpose of having smaller pc's in every way.
>>47766970
Gnome was just another name for dwarf in pre-modern times.
Gnome are High Int, Low Wis.
Gnomes don't ask "Why?" they say "Why not?".
Halflings have lifespans about as long as humans, Gnomes live way longer.
Halflings are to Gones like Humans to Elves if they weren't so stuck up.
>>47766256
A gnome is a short humanoid, one of the most bizarre and alien of the civilized races of Golarion. They tend to be around three feet in height and unnervingly slender, although slightly taller than halflings. They also begin to suffer from a condition known as Bleaching when they lose passion and fail to experience new things.
Because of their heritage, gnomes have difficulty coping with and accepting this reality, and must therefore constantly strive to innovate, dream, and take in new experiences. Those who fail to do so become bored and slowly accept our reality, succumbing to a condition only experienced by gnomes: the Bleaching. Those who suffer from this ailment slowly lose all color in their hair and skin, and eventually succumb to dementia or madness, and death. Those few who survive this ordeal become bleachlings. Because of their constant need for new experiences, gnomes are perceived by other races as being erratic, chaotic, daring, and innovative.
Most gnomes have numerous intimate relations during their lives, and long-term monogamy is exceedingly rare. Most gnome families are loosely associated, with gnome children being raised as much by the larger community as by their birth parents. Due to their need to fend of the Bleaching, most gnomes favor unusual hobbies and professions, and become attached to objects that "anchor" them to Golarion. These can take the form of friendships, stories, exotic outfits or perfumes, gadgets, or riddles.
Halflings are just short humans with hairy tough feet.
Really the race that should be gotten rid of is halflings. They are boring and useless.
The way I've always thought of it, halflings are like pint-sized humans, gnomes are like pint-sized elves.
>>47766256
>Why are Humans and Elves different species? How would you even tell them apart in a crowd?
>>47770321
>Pathfinder gnomes
>Pathfinder anything
>>47766970
In really early drafts of Tolkien stuff his elves (or at least the Noldor) were called gnomes.
Imagine how different fantasy would be if he stuck with that.
>>47766256
>Do you incorporate both gnomes and halflings in your games?
Only as an afterthought. I go through hours and hours of worldbuilding and design and all that shit, and then play starts and a player says "I want to play a halfling" and I'm suddenly reminded that halflings actually exist.
Half the time I answer with "uhhhh okay" and the other half is "halflings don't exist in this world" but I'm pretty easygoing about it. They just fall out of my brain when I do any worldbuilding or storytelling. I can't even remember the last halfling or gnome NPC I had.
>>47769512
Kender are just Dragonlance's version of halflings.
>In preparation for the Dragonlance setting, Tracy Hickman ran a series of Dungeons & Dragons adventures. Harold Johnson, one of those involved in the games, chose to play a halfling thief character whom he called Almar Tann. When Hickman, Johnson and others moved to the Dragonlance setting for their games, the character of Almar Tann went with them. It soon became clear to those involved, however, that halflings were unsuitable to the Dragonlance world. As Johnson described it, this was especially due to his character's possession of a ring of invisibility, so that "it all sounded too much like another story," referring to Bilbo Baggins and the One Ring. Halflings were then dropped from the campaign, and Johnson developed both the initial concept of the kender and the first representative of the fantasy race, Tasslehoff Burrfoot. To solidify the distinction, they were originally described as "thinner, more wiry, and more cunning and streetwise" than halflings.
>[...]
>Two of the other key characteristics of kender—their curiosity and kleptomania—were introduced by Hickman. Hickman was uncomfortable with the notion of a "race of thieves" in his games, but still wanted the skills typically associated with thieves, so he added their "innocent tendency to 'borrow' things for indeterminate periods of time."
>[...]
>Hickman's primary contributions to the development of the kender were their curiosity and their tendency to "borrow" objects. [...] His desire for the skills of a thief, without the associated moral concerns raised by a "race of thieves", led to depicting kender as possessing a habit of finding things that have dropped into their pouches by accident, picking things up in the streets, finding "junk", and generally acquiring things that belong to other people.
>>47768580
Found the kolbolt
>boohoo fey gnomes are shit
They're basically children of the forest. Halflings are just short people that love food and thieving, they're hardly even a separate race from humans and boring as shit.
Guise, guise. You're all missing the obvious here.
Itdepends on the setting.And you know I'm not even wrong.
>>47769409
Some people clearly like them.
Other people clearly don't like them.
I can take them or leave them.
Do you hate different opinions?
>>47766256
In my setting, Gnomes are a nearly extinct, dying race, with no coherent culture, no defined territory, and no big or noteworthy cities. Because fuck Gnomes.
>>47766256
In my setting the greatest most well-known folk hero of all time, basically the Cú Chulainn of my setting, is a gnome.
Gnomes are great
>>47769781
>gnomes are tech wizzes, santa's little helpers from the feywild
>halflings live by rivers and are smaller humans
Yes one of those two sounds much more interesting than the other
>fulfill the purpose of having smaller pc's in every way
except the interesting part of course
>>47766353
>>47766358
>>47766371
4e plz go. Worst depiction of both halflings and gnomes
>>47766256
>halflings are tolkienesque hobbits; hairy feet, a penchant for rustic comfy and all, often with an added thievery shtick
>gnomes are more chaotic and closer to classic fey, being tricksters, illusionists and often gadgeteers who can literally die from boredom if they're not pulling pranks. They are often smaller, less stocky and have fairy features to set them apart
They are different enough and can coexist in a setting. Just because they're both short doesn't make them mutually exclusive, just like elves, orcs and humans aren't mutually exclusive.
>>47770490
Well, it's the ears. But apparently gnomes and halflings both have pointy ears.
>ITT: /tg/ hates gnomes because they actually require effort to do them justice
>>47771123
Underrated post.
Also, such fury over imaginary short people.
> whew lads
>>47766256
Halflings are for minmaxers
Gnomes are for the so random crowd
Kobolds are Gnomes but for furrys with a side order of underdog complex
>>47771516
What do you fucking want, then?
>>47771304
In cases like this including something is better than not including it. If someone doesn't like tieflings they just don't play it. If someone does like tieflings, they need it in the book unless they go "hey dm can you let me homebrew this" which is not ideal.
>>47766308
but usually half-elves are fertile so are elves and humans really different species?
>>47766256
Halflings are Human/Dwarf hybrids. That's why they're called HALFlings. It has nothing to do with their height.
Gnomes are their own thing, and are completely unrelated.
>>47768997
>Balor
I'd go with Pit Fiend, personally. Lawful Evil seems to be a better fit.
>>47773557
Yes.
>>47771809
>such fury over imaginary short people
Shit, you should have seen the reaction when I implied that there's literally nothing wrong with kender.
>>47766256
>Why are gnomes and halflings different species?
Gnomes exist because you're drawing from fairytales,
but you can't use Dwarves of Elves for their role.
Because you're riffing Tolkien.
Halfings exist because you're riffing Tolkien.
>>47766887
>the tinker gnomes from DragonLance
>not the tinker gnomes from Spelljammer
They're literally identical, but still ... Shit taste.
>>47769791 Pre-modern dwarves were also dark elves were also trolls.
>>47773798
>Pre-modern dwarves were also dark elves
Maybe not.
>were also trolls
Definitely not.
>>47771516
My description of halflings and gnomes aren't even from 4E, they're from 3E.
>>47773557
Well in a scientific sense, "race" is often used to signify subspecies. one interpretation could be that while the real world doesn't have human "races", the fantas world does, with one elf much more likely to be related to another elf than to a human,but still able to mate with them. But they're really the same species.
>>47766256
Halflings, (according to obscure Lotr lore fags) are a subspecies of men, and or an offshoot branch during our evolution.
Gnomes are (according to obscure folk lore fags) beings of fey or magical origin, who are known to be either helping man or causing him trouble.
Gnomes are also earth elementals in some mythologies.
>>47766256
I have the same hair as that halfling.
That is all.
I'm not generally fond of either. For halflings I take influence from Eberron and give them a nomadic bent, but without dinosaurs.
Gnomes aren't playable and earth spirits aligned with dirt and stone. They're fat, stand about one foot tall, and wear clothes made of rock that flows like fabric. Usually wear hats.
