Pathfinder General /pfg/
Storytime edition
What's the craziest and zaniest story you've got in recent memory?
When asking about build advice, remember to be sure to mention whether or not third party material (3pp) is allowed!
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/hdPm41ad
Please search for the unerrata'd content here: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
Old thread: >>47726215
>>47739308
Dunno about craziest or zaniest but the most recent one we had was we encountered this one asshole NPC who was trying to get the crowd on his side and paint us as the bad guys. Our caster was a diplomancer and nothing she did seemed to beat this guy, which was really frustrating for her. So in desperation she threw a dispel magic at him, figuring he had someone on that was making this so difficult. And then he turned into a young adult green dragon when his alter self was dispelled.
It was a pretty big WTF moment.
>Go semi pacifist non-lethal style
>Diplo captured enemies and try my best to work out our differences
>Some of them like me well enough and have nowhere else to go that they decide to live with the party
>Most of them are too poorly adjusted that they cant get jobs and reintegrate into society without significant time investment
>Before I realize it our base has dozens of enemies
>Eventually forced to sleep on the roof because all rooms are taken and the werewolves living in the shed like to huddle up with my PC
Being a nice guy sure is rough
is there legal way to get to do actions after using dimension door
>>47739308
Early-deiselpunk setting. Our magus drove a motorcycle at full-speed down a street, still-spellstriking enemies as he passed, bag of holding on his back. Rest of the party is in the bag of holding, popping out to cast spells or shoot their guns at enemies.
>>47739445
Dimensional Agility.
>>47739445
Dimensional Agility. There's a whole feat tree based on it that lets you teleport around in a full-attack and even flank with yourself that way. Would be good on like an Eldritch Scoundrel type.
>>47739451
>>47739457
oh
so our gm was legally one shotting our casters with dimension door hopping rogues
>>47739463
>Not being immune to sneak attacks by the time they can afford to get that feat
>>47739485
dimensional assault can happen really early
>>47739519
Eh? Dimensional typically doesn't come online until like level 9 though?
>>47739543
Enemies can get dimensional door as SLA easy
>>47739519
Unchained monks can get it much earlier than oter classes now.
>>47739556
>>47739553
Not rogues though, which is what he was apparently being attacked by.
>>47739572
Devilbound rogue
Path of War is shit :^)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/bebilith
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Web-Ex-
The wording says that its an attack similiar to a net attack, does that mean that a hasted bebilith can fire two webs per round?
>>47739485
>Being immune to sneak attacks
Like there's any easy way of doing that at low-mid levels.There isn't, is there?
>>47739572
Monsters with class levels.
>>47739918
Seems right to me.
>Anthro characters are integrated into the setting as a beastfolk kingdom
>Everyone seems to be playing either a human or Demi-humanShould I make a Not!French wolf-man Landsknecht seeking revenge on the pack that exiled him after they went rogue, or an Akkadian lion-bro burdened to look after his dead brother's children and wives?
>>47739983
If your enemy has the bare minimum for dimensional agility (which is only one SA at best) then you can certainly afford displacement at the very least. If he has the dimensional assault or better then you probably have access to elemental body IV for sneak attack immunity.
Worst come to worst, cast obscuring mist while wearing a goz mask. And even if all you had to defend yourselves was 2nd level spells, you can always get mirror image which stops aftermentioned one attack at a time.
>>47740045
Oh right, forgot the ol' concealment rule. Don't think it's reasonable to assume you have 7th level spells by the time your enemy has 4th level spells+2 feats though, and most people don't use stuff like the Goz Mask.
>>47740099
Well its only 4k if you craft it and if you're too cheap to craft it then you can prep barrow haze instead.
Really the best you need when you're playing a caster is obscuring mist or mirror image.
That is, if this boogeyman rogue of yours that can allegedly 1hit a not-shit caster.
>>47740099
>>47740122
Blur will work as well to shut down chained sneak attack. Get a minor cloak of displacement.
>>47739898
Don't cut yourself on that edge, now.
Protips on making a Witch not suck against undead at least during the first few levels? I may have fucked up by getting my STR mod down to -2 so I can't even do touch attacks reliably
>>47740174
Wait, even if you bypass the 25% miss chance on blur, it still cancels out sneak attacks?
>>47740264
Don't use Slumber. Play like a normal low level caster. If you've got dex, you might want Weapon Finesse for touch attacks, or just focus on ranged touch rather than melee. Remember your familiar can deliver touch spells as well, and it's probably better at attacking than you.
What do you guys think of my map for my campaign?
The idea is it's pretty much a war between two factions over a resource rich island that rose out of the ocean a hundred or so years back and the Odomus Society are pretty much aristocratic higher races with a militant "purge and enslave those beneath us" and Untamed are more or less monster races or generally those looked down upon by most society who are getting steam rolled and put into concentration camps for the past 20 years and are losing the war. Doesn't mean the Untamed are the underdog good guys, they're pretty much the Horde just a bit more savage and ruthless and the Odomus have a Nazi Germany feel to them.
My players will be the Untamed and it's up to them to win/lose/backstab the island etc.
>>47740285
If you ignore concealment no, but if you have to roll concealment, you don't get sneak attack, unless you have Shadow Strike.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shadow-strike-combat
>>47740326
Seems like Unchained fixed and made that feat useless.
"A(n) (unchained) rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment."
So they can still sneak attack if you have partial as long as it isn't total.
>>47740288
Look too much like the map from the old Merlin books.
>>47740361
Right, I tend to assume chained until told otherwise. Nice to know though.
Which stat array do I use for cohort? Heroic array like NPC with player class?
>>47739898
Sir I'm sorry it took so long, there was a lot of traffic and Debbie from accounting showed me baby pictures of her new dog, but it's here, I've got it. Your (You).
NPCs should be built like PCs, and scrap the NPC rules
The world should exist independently of the PCs.
>>47740476
Transparency is and always has been a lie. NPCs and PCs by necessity have to run on different sorts of rules and build philosophies. There's some things PCs can have that should almost never he used on NPCs.
How do I become immune to command undead?
I like having my free will.
What's the deal with Shield Brace feat?
I can use Two-handed Polearm while wearing Tower Shield? Do I still wield the polearm two-handed? Do I still get x1.5 STR and x1.5 Power Attack? Can I make a shield bash attack?
How do i create a Wizard focused on rune magic?
lvl. 1, Human.
I mean i guess it could become pretty powerful, but it would cost a huge amount of money
>>47740553
You take a penalty to your attack equal to the ACP penalty on the shield. You are still two handing your weapon so I see no reason you wouldn't get all the benefits attached to it.
As for a shield bash... I'm not sure.
>>47740512
Please explain why this is so?
The discrepancy only artificially slaps the heroic attribute onto the PCs
>>47740555
>>47740555
Spell focus and mage's tattoo and a greed rune mage specialist wizard. Get transmuter, means you cast at CL3 for your transmutation spells at level 1.
>>47740626
Because most players are big babies who can't deal with the chance their character might die. They want the illusion of danger, not actual danger.
>>47740620
Well.. I forgot that Tower Shield couldn't be shield bash.
I wonder how our character are holding both tower shield and still wielding weapon two-handed though...
>>47740639
Hahahaha, you're goddamn right
Fuck the lot of them, fucking pieces of shit. Stop whinging and accept a challenge you pathetic ranksacks
>>47740626
>>47740639
The game wasn't designed to deal with PC vs PC.
Path of War question:
Are these the only ways to counter-attack?
>Primal Fury's Bloody Riposte
>Dervish Defender Warder's Dervish Defense
I'm looking for a way to AoO whenever someone attacks me or an ally.
Help please?
>>47740010
If I were in that setting i'd roll a Peacock noble samurai/knight/sunbro so fast...
>>47740711
Iron Tortoise's Quick Snap
Black Seraph's Vengeful Riposte and Devastating Riposte
Scarlet Throne's Sanguine Riposte (It does block the attack though before attacking back)
What feats should be chained into one feat?
What feats should inherently be part of a class?
>>47740691
Someone is certainly ether bitter or being very sarcastic, the way that was written could be taken both ways.
>>47740702
Because PCs are fucking whingers and can't handle their chars dying?throw tantrums and their colossal weight around?
Is there ANY way to add a new discipline to your list of disciplines?
I mean, not swapping for one but just getting another one on top of the ones you already have.
A wondrous item?
Training of some kind?
Reading a minor artifact book?
I guess the Martial Training feat chain is kind of it, but is there a better option?
>>47740839
Where did the bad players touch you?
>>47740287
Thanks for your advice.I've already picked Misfortune and Cackle for my first level (human, took extra hex) feats. Not sure at all what I should take next - I know Healing, Slumber, Flight and Evil Eye would be good choices in general but it's a bit hard to put them in order. My dex is 14 so WF would give me a bit of a boost for melee touches, on the other hand casters tend to be quite squishy and undead tend to have really nasty melee abilities -> perhaps I'll only take ranged touch spells. I could use my familiar to deliver touches starting from level 3, but that would make it fair game for the GM to target it and I'm not sure that would go well.
Would it be worth it to take Scribe Scroll to make scrolls of mage armor and other 1st level spells for myself and my familiar?
>>47740839
>GM won't turn off babymode
>Every PC is complaining that the game is too easy
>We don't even take damage in some encounters
>GM won't make it harder because he's afraid we'll get upset if our characters die
>We tell him we have enough money to resurrect the whole party 4 times
>Still won't listen
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
>>47740808
Power attack/deadly aim/combat expertise should not be feats, simply options one can take at +1 BaB.
Point blank shot should be taken out as a concept entirely.
Improved X feats should be consolidated into larger feats.
Those are some big ones off the top of my head.
What are some cheap ways to boost my Stealth as a character with shit-tier DEX?
>>47740858
>>47740870
That GM and GMs in general need to realize PCs shouldn't need to be handheld through the world and that actions have consequences, sometimes far-reaching. You can't just start shit and be above consequence
Who cares if your precious PC dies, you get on with creating a new char and inserting that into the party and the world
>>47740904
>you get on with creating a new char and inserting that into the party and the world
Or the party takes like a quarter of your old PC's gold, throws his corpse and the money at a priest, and your guy comes back.
>>47740870
>>47740839
>>47740691
I fucking hate it when a DM pulls their punches.
Give us fast-and-loose character creation rules, let us create what we want... And we'll give you the green light on pounding our asses with whatever you feel like throwing at us.
No really, we can take it!
>>47740902
Being small, shape change helps
>>47740883
>Power attack/deadly aim/combat expertise should not be feats, simply options one can take at +1 BaB.
>Improved X feats should be consolidated into larger feats.
Should these be freely given at certain levels to all martial classes?
>>47740870
>tfw I'm in the same situation
>figured the gm would up the difficulty after we were imprisoned in a city
>nope
>we bust out and somehow become even more powerful overall thanks to my characters necromatic sheinanegans
>currently praying he takes the bait and has my necrocraft, which was recently embued with intelligence, not want to fight
>tfw I want to gimp myself because I accidentally a 30ft Nito look a like
>>47740711
Broken Blade has some too.
>>47740919
Magic really does remove most consequences
>>47740922
A good challenge makes it all the more worthwhile, and gives a feeling of satisfaction not that gnawing feeling of hollow victory
>>47740919
That works too; though depending on resurrection rules in the setting
>>47740715Tengu, Syrinx and Strix are included among the beastfolk. Peacock Noble samurai is not only possible, but probably encouraged.
The campaign is recruiting on Roll20.
>>47740929
That's what I'm saying for deadly aim/power attack/etc.
I say no for improved X. They should stay feats, simply larger ones so two feats cover all combat maneuvers. The higher end ones, Greater X, should still be separate feats.
Also greater fortitude, iron will, lightening reflexes should be combat feats so they can be taken with bonus combat feats.
>>47740904
Some DMs really dislike the hassle of magically inserting a new character who also happens to be the same level as the PCs etc, especially if the story is in a critical moment where it is just absurd for this new PC to suddenly appear offering their aid.
That said, my DMs typically avoid having monsters use power attack until he feels we are powerful enough to handle it, such as having access to raise dead, etc.
Some enemies with power attack are just absolutely absurd.
>>47740922
>Level 5
>60 HP
>DR 2/-
>Resistance 2 to everything
>10 Temporary HP I can refresh every turn with a standard action
>PoW counters with like a 95% success chance
>24 AC
>20% Concealment
>.
>.
>.
>GM's encounters are so easy that no one has taken damage yet
>We're 4 sessions in
>>47740922
I see people on /pfg/ whine ALL THE FUCKING TIME, about characteright die. Literally the last five times I talked about the subject I was branded a massive degenerate for the fact I have PC death as a consequence on the table. Fucking Christ you people say you want this then you throw a tantrum because your character dying was "unfair". No, you chose to die, you made the decision.
>>47740970
>power attack
>worth shit
what the fuck are you fighting, 40 orcs?
>>47740978
Is your DM using other PoW classes against you?
>>47740950
The best part is when the DM throws off the limiters and just gives your party a rough time.
Sure, you're 32 PB with PoW and PoW:E at level 5, but when the DM says you're getting attacked by a raiding party he *means* you're getting hit with all the orcs.
15 PB with Core at level 1 just frustrates me.
>>47740970
This is probably another reason why PC creation rules should be used extensively and as the only method of world coherence. That'll give a good incentive for the GM to slot that PC into the party and give a solid reason why that PC is existing in the world
Heh, Power Attack and Vital Strike should be part of the same feat chain and stack so hard
>>47741004
Wait, are you the fucking idiot that has PCs get fucking killed in random bandit ambushes and by roaming manticores or whatever rather than at big, meaningful encounters where their death is memorable rather than "oh woops i rolled bad haha"
If so get the fuck out no one wants your ass in here
>>47741004
Anon people on /tg/ are retards who just want to find a reason to complain, don't take it personally.
Seems like GMs and players need to come to an agreement whether there will be player deaths or not
Trying to make a PoW sword and boarder with Iron Tortoise and Silver Crane. Would I be better off doing it basically Warder with Ordained Champion, or Warlord with the Vanguard Commander?
I like both classes but I can't decide..
>>47741028
>>47741028
See this is the shit I mean. I roll in the open, most bandits are strong enough to actually kill PCs, but the bridge troll might eat a player because death doesn't just come when you want it, it can come expecpetedly. You're the whiny player who only wants death on their terms.
>>47741011
Fuck if I know.
We massacre the encounters before anything happens.
I have a tally I've kept, here:
Spells cast on me: 2
Spells I've countered: 2
Maneuvers used on me: 0
Maneuvers I've countered: 0
Normal attacks I've countered: 4
No one has taken damage yet.
>>47741042
There might be player death because pathfinder has mechanics for it and D&D is a combat game.
Don't want death? Don't play a game where it's a consequence.
>>47741060
>Bridge troll might eat a player
So... Are you saying you target a specific character for an instant death? When those bandits attack, they're aiming for one PC at a time, right? How do you figure out which one's going to die?
Do you kill characters you just don't like, or what?
>>47741006
>>47741025
In the early parts of this campaign a power attacking boss would take out 3/4th of a players HP.
That isn't fun, so they generally stopped using power attack. Now that we are level 10 he uses power attack again since we can somewhat deal with it now.
>>47740969
Good, good
Nah, Improved, Greater shenanigans should really be one long feat chain, and should finish at a +5 bonus
Agree with the save boosting feats
>>47741060
Usually death, especially shocking or gratuitous or Unexpected death, is designed to convey something to the protagonist or the viewer, usually related to the senselessness of war and violence or something about The Human Condition.
Butt in the case of what you described it's just pointless TDM unfortunately the game you are engaged in is also a game of Storytelling. If you want to have a game where it is just pure mechanics then by all means do so but the game is not strictly about that it is a combination of both and it needs to pay respects to both.
>>47741060
>PCs are meant to be heroes on a grand journey
>Get eaten uneventfully by a random troll
Hey guys, remember when in Lord of the Rings, Legolas got shot in the head by an arrow?
My favorite moment was when Aragorn went to make that one jump and didn't make it and fell and died!
>>47740922
Im still a bit salty at the boss we fought. Broken blade can eat a dick.
>>47741081
What the fuck? Are you trying to put words in my mouth? No, the troll is going to attack who it can within its mental capacity. Likely grab whoever is closest and drag them under the bridge because it's a hungry troll and doesn't want to fight five people at once.
You're making a lot of fucking assumptions that in some vindictive asshole who targets a particular player. The only time particular people get targeted is if the enemy thinks they are strategically important.
>>47741070
Oh fuck, PC death lol
Damn fucking straight
>>47741095
But anon, muh consequences! Everything has to end in death of the players aren't MENSA members!
>>47741102
How many PCs have you killed this way? With completely mundane deaths with no significance beyond "death is everywhere?"
Have you noticed a distinct drop or change in backstories? Tell us about your players and their characters.
>>47741092
>>47741095
The dicegods are fickle and flighty
>>47741102
> does not allow his players to roll perception or scout out and approaching area that could be a good ambush point in areas outside of walled cities, i.e. What is known in D&D/PF as possible hostile territory because they are all worlds filled with horrible monsters that roam around and bandits and other bad shit
Nah you're just a moron without an actual group who thinks he understands what the game is and how to run it, or how rational actors would behave in such a terrible existence.
>>47741095
Again if you don't want that happening play dungeon world.
Seriously you're the people five seconds ago begging to have the GM not pull punches. You're a bunch of hypocrites. You ask for a challenge, but only on your terms. You find it fucking offensive if something dangerous comes along that isn't what you deem of narrative importance. This is why most people on /pfg/ are insufferable to play with or GM for.
>>47741130
What the fuck are you blithering on about?
>>47741146
Not every campaign needs to be hardcore instadeath over one roll.
>>47740869
>Would it be worth it to take Scribe Scroll to make scrolls of mage armor and other 1st level spells for myself and my familiar?
I wouldn't, since crafting takes time and money, neither are really guaranteed. Fortune is always good for a hex. Remember that when you're buffing allies, it doesn't matter what the enemies resist/ignore spells wise.
>>47741158
Does the GM ultimately have control over that or are all at the mercy of the fuckaweful dicegods?
>>47741148
Seriously you're greentexting shit I never said. Are you trolling? I actually can't tell.
>>47741102
Dude I already get shit on every waking moment of my life I don't need it in my fucking games too
I come to tabletop games to roleplay as a hero on an adventure doing heroic things not a shit-encrusted peasant with 2 levels in fighter who gets killed by a pack of goblins
It's fine if that's the kind of shit you're into but don't push it on everyone else
>>47741157
That some GMs seem to expect their players to be as smart as the character their playing/ to expect everything all the time.
>>47741146
Dice has nothing to do with denying players their rightful chance to act and react so you can merc them in their sleep or say 'Rocks Fall'.
If you were an actual hard-ass dungeon master you would be doing everything by the book and thus prompt rolls, or likewise expect players to declare they will, as said earlier, roll Perception, scout out areas ahead, etc.
/pfg/ is populated by schizophrenic powerhungry fuckweeds, news at eleven
>>47741174
Give us your words, then.
Tell us about your group, your players and their characters. Give us some context of PCs you've killed before, how you handle backstories and shit like that.
>>47741173
Yes? They are the GM.
>>47741144
In the last campaign? There was 3 deaths between level 1 and 3. Two in one encounter against a gang boss at second level, one to the actual bridge troll I mentioned when the PC failed to intimidate the troll.
>>47741155
Let me spell it out for you:
There is a distinct difference between "You engage the enemies. They can't hit you and you kill all of them with ease." and "You engage the enemies. They each deal about half your health per hit and spam save-or-suck spells. You make it out of the encounter with half the party dead."
They are both bad. You are not some paragon of virtue for killing players. What everyone wants is the spot inbetween both of those shitshows.
>>47741155
You don't understand a clear and simple different here.
A DM leading his PCs through candyland is totally different from an asshole DM declaring "you open the door and a dire tiger full attacks you, you die." A DM has all the power in he world to place overwhelming and unwinnable challenges to a player, and this is generally thought of as a bad thing. An adequate and appropriate challenge is something that can lead to death, and mistakes made by the players can cause that death. What you have is the illusion of challenge by taking cheap shots.
>>47740715
Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier?
>>47741051
I went with Vanguard, the shield bash ability turns every strike into a two hitter, and works really well with the final iron tortoise style feat. So every strike is 3 hits. A solid combo
>>47741155
You sound like the worst fucking GM I've ever experienced, and I've played a few sessions run by a friend's 12 year old sister where we had to fight an invincible unicorn.
>>47741214
>killing players at that low level
That's just teaching them that making a fleshed out character is pointless
>>47741189
I never said the GM shouldn't be doing this, in fact the GM should be doing that very thing, prompting rolls, questioning actions, handing the narrative in part over to the PCs
A GM who doesn't do that should be prompted by the players, or told to fuck off if the GM's becoming too unnecessarily savage
>>47741223
>>47741225
I almost thought that your post was mine for a second. Good teamwork.
>>47741225
>>47741223
When did I ever say I did any of this? The fuck is wrong with you people? You're running wild with assumptions and getting angry over things that were never said.
>>47741214
And their characters? Tell us about them, how detailed are they? Do the players give a damn about them?
>>47741263
Anon if everyone says your doing it wrong you might actually be doing it wrong.
>>47741263
You are fucking SEEDING WITH RAEG and you call US mad?
Dude, take a step back from the fucking computer, okay?
>>47741223
>>47741225
>>47741239
Stop samefagging you fucks
>>47741292
>Posts hit at almost the same time
>Samefagging
Dude can you like
Just go
Go and stay go
Seriously
>>47741263
>You're crossing a bridge
>Whoops there's a troll, in one round it grabs you and drags you from your allies' range of help under the bridge. Can you survive getting your head bit off? Oh well.
To be clear I am on the side that prefers a more lethal game. I hate when a DM pulls punches, and it ruins the fun from the moment I feel like I've cheated onward. But I've also ended campaigns when 4 Bulettes sprung attack out from under us and ended the party in two rounds. That's not fun, that's not challenge, that's not good.
>>47741292
>less than a minute apart
(You)
Fuck, this thread
Can't you autistic fucks have one goddamn civilized conversation
>>47741331
>Be proud of own retardation
>Get called out on it
>Run out of DMG+CTRL
>G-guess I'll just call them names n-now! Yeah, that'll s-show 'em..!!
>>47741331
No anon, you are the retard
>>47741309
Did you not read what I wrote. They tried to intimidate the troll, it didn't work, so he grabbed a character. Fucking hell you're not even reading my posts.
>>47741279
I require a paragraph of backstory and tell people I generally do not want more than a page. Their character detail did not change between the death. Two of the new characters were from the gang they had just killed the boss of. The new one for the other was a captured in the troll's larder, having been saved for dinner.
They each gave me the paragraph and cared about their characters. They had worked towards the gang leader for the first two levels, so 8 sessions. The troll happened two sessions later when they were traveling and it ate one of the new characters.
I could explain further and actually give their back stories but I doubt people here actually care.
>>47741344
>>47741359
Sure, and here's your (You)
>>47741284
You people don't even know what I'm doing beyond some characters died.
>>47741331
>>47741344
>>47741359
>>47741380
>my little anon can't be this mad
>>47741380
I see I have entered a (You) farm.
Allow me to add some fertilizer:
I don't allow Path of War in my games because my Wizard players don't like it.
>>47741394
>>47741391
Then why not add that in instead of us having to drag it out of you? It would save everyone a lot of time and thread space if we did have to insult you into telling us what's going on instead of snippets that make you look like an idiot.
>>47741408
>>47741423
I am, I posted what happened. Go read my posts. Hell its obvious half the people arguing aren't reading my posts.
>>47741434
>You failed a skill check?
>Better start rolling a new character
This is just as bad.
>>47741434
You got in the way of their fun and their being always right, and that's NOT ALLOWED (tm)
>>47741434
I meant to begin with, walls of text are ok here of all places, at least it won't result in that autism fest for both sides.
>>47741476
>>47741394
Nothing....personnel, kid
>>47741445
>you failed a skill check
>combat starts
Did you think I just told him he died? No, they went into combat and he happened to die because he was in front as a 10con sorcerer at level 3. The troll bit him once.
A CR 5 troll against the group is a difficult but not insurmountable encounter because he was drunk so I gave him constant sicken.
>tries to intimidate drunk troll
>troll attacks you
Really, should the troll have just fucking rolled over?
>>47741450
You fuck off too, you're just as bad.
>>47741498
This is now a skeleton general >>47741516
Ok
>>47741434
>anyone who disagrees with me must be either trolling or retarded
>it's impossible for me to be wrong, I don't know what self-awareness is, I can't understand the simple concepts that people are detailing over and over again
>>47741533
That was a spodor, not a skeltal anon.
>>47741524
>drunk
>constant sicken
Holy shit, no, why?
Is there a handy gallery/booru or something for all the pictures people like to use for characters and inspiration etc?
>>47741570
We skeltals nao
Paladin shitters need not apply
>>47741571
I use google but because its so shitty sometimes i use pinterest for some very neat art. You may also want to check draw threads theres some really good shit there a lot of the times.
>>47741571
http://grognard.booru.org/
>>47741554
*spooky general
>>47741533
>>47741603
Skeletals 4unlife
I've been away from Pathfinder and /pfg/ for something like a month. Have I missed anything important like new books or things for /pfg/ to bitch about?
> New GM
> He's all about "MUH REALISM"
> Paizo content only
Poor martials...
>>47741524
>>47741557
CR 5 at level 3's a legit encounter anyway. The nerf just tips it from 50/50 odds to slightly better.
Also who the fuck tried to intimidate a troll as a squishy wizard at level 3?
>>47741635
>MUH REALISM
>in d20 game
>>47741635
>Join game
>Seems okay so far
>GM makes me roll a Fort save out of the blue
>uhhhhhh
>Flimsy fucking rogue, fail the save
>GM makes my character shit himself because I haven't mentioned him going to the bathroom
I have never dropped a game faster than that
>>47741635
>>47741657
Because, fuck you, that's why
>>47741636
A player who probably didn't realize his gm was Daconian
>>47741636
>Ambushed by a troll
>Can't cast any useful spells
>Can't run away because it has reach
>What the fuck do I do?
>Guess I'll.. try to intimidate it? Or something? What does the GM expect me to do in this situation?
>Oh I guess he expected me to die
>OK
>>47741545
They're asking for things that were already posted. They really are just not reading the posts.
>>47741557
Because he needed a debuff because a CR5 troll is a bit too much for 5 level 3 PCs. Sickened normally is a bad enough debuff to bring him in line. He was very drunk, had been vomiting off the bridge into the river when they found him.
>>47741717
Nigger what? It attacked him because he failed to intimidate it. It didn't even ambush them, they were trying to talk their way past it. What are you smoking?
>>47741721
>Sickened normally is a bad enough debuff to bring him in line
dude are you retarded or do you just run shitcan paizocore games
honest question
>>47741694
Too bad, I'm a fullcaster.
>>47741689
> cast prestidigitation
> tip my Wizard hat to Rogue
>>47741689
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>47741746
Casters were banned in that game
I joined it purely because it advertised a "more realistic, while still fantastic, approach to Pathfinder"
What I thought was going to be a low magic, low fantasy campaign turned out to be a "micromanage your bowels, thirst and hunger at all times" game.
>>47741717
>ambushed
>approach drunk troll vomiting off of side of bridge
>troll demands more money than reasonable to cross his bridge
>try and intimidate him
>he's not having any of it, bellows he'll take you as toll and that the others can pass
>grabs and starts moving once initiative starts, troll goes third in imitative because good roll
>players head after him
>troll makes bite attack, rolls well enough to put sorcerer unconscious, keeps running taking the unconscious body
>troll ends up killing the sorcerer but dying in his den under the bridge
>>47741731
A troll is not even an unreasonable encounter without the sicken. It's dangerous but not insane, sickened is a small debuff but reasonable to tip it in the party's favor.
>>47741776
Now imagine if you were that sorcerer and tell me you wouldn't want to fucking sock the GM in the face, flip the table and leave
>>47741721
>They're asking for things that were already posted.
>My explanation is flawless and concise, it would be impossible to want more. I can not be wrong. I refuse to accept that I my have made a mistake.
>>47741776
Normal game:
>Try to do a thing
>Fail to do the thing
>Consequence occurs (take damage, negative condition, moved to bad position on map, split from party, etc.)
Shit game:
>Try to do a thing
>Fail to do the thing
>Die
>>47741776
I bet you're the kind of guy who would make someone roll perception and if they fail they get hit by an arrow and fucking dies.
>>47741795
Yeah if they were an actual man child.
>>47741837
Did I say he died the second he lost the check? He died 4 rounds later in the troll's den because the troll wanted to run rather than fight.
The troll made several rolls to reach that point.
Combat began because of the failure, death happened because of the fight.
>Normal GM:
>Dwarf cannot make a jump due to armor and stature
>Asks to be thrown by nearby Fighter comrade
>Fighter makes a Strength check
>Fails
>GM recognizes this as a really cool, memorable moment and allows it to happen anyway
>Dwarf does an aerial charge attack as he flies into the combat, the Fighter following suit with a jump
>Shit GM:
>Dwarf cannot make a jump due to armor and stature
>Asks to be thrown by nearby Fighter comrade
>Fighter makes a Strength check
>Fails
>Dwarf falls 200 feet to his death
>>47741795
If I was the sorcerer I wouldn't be dumb enough to try and scare a troll in the first place.
>>47741837
So that was a normal game then. Sorcerer failed to do his thing which put him in a bad spot on the map (right next to a troll) which proceeded to get him killed. Unless you think characters shouldn't die no matter what they do?
>>47741851
Player wasn't made to do anything though. He chose to try to intimidate the thing that could kill him with one good hit, unsurprisingly failed and got fucked up.
>>47741869
You literally said he died in one hit. It can't have been 4 rounds later.
Here, you said it >>47741776 in one hit, the player can't do anything. The player had one one chance to do anything, one failed roll lead to his death.
>>47741869
>Caster
>Grappled by creature larger than you with huge strength score
>Creature then runs away from your party, damaging you the whole time
This is literally the same as simply saying "you die" to the caster.
>>47741869
Anon nearly everyone disagrees, when will you realize you might want to shut up before you continue to make yourself look like an even large cock head
>>47741888
Are you seriously suggesting that a caster (who by the way has gone from being a sorcerer to a wizard and back like 4 times, might wanna check your shitposts before you vomit them out,) being grabbed by a troll is as bad of a consequence as him being simply attacked by the troll?
Are you daft?
>>47741876
That just makes it sound like the more the players risk their PC's life on a single roll, the less likely the DM should be to actually allow failure to be an option.
>>47741904
Anyone who doesn't think that guy is a fucking nobhead is either himself or just trying to stoke the fire
>>47741851
Die? No
Get hit with an arrow? Yes sure, the entire party failing perception checks means an ambush could occur. This doesn't happen very often as normally someone notices the ambush.
>>47741891
He went unconscious in one hit. He wasn't actually dead yet, but was bleeding out.
>>47741912
Never said he was a wizard.
>>47741894
Then don't try and intimidate a creature you know can do this? Especially one drunk off his ass.
>>47741921
I think he meant that GMs shouldn't immediately punish players for being creative, sure this time it works but next time don't expect it to go smoothly
>>47741930
>Unconscious
A technicality. The point is he only had one chance to do anything before he was dead.
Did everyone here manage to forget that tabletop RPGs are primarily a co-operative storytelling experience and not Dark Souls But Worse And Slower And You Only Play Once A Week At Best?
What kind of story are you telling where one of the main characters dies an uneventful, meaningless death?
>>47741912
Sorcerer, wizard, either gets the point across that he was dumb as hell to challenge something much tougher than him when he's got d4s for HP. Trolls are massively violent as it is, let alone drunk trolls, and the player was dumb enough to forget this.
And in this case the consequences were both as bad, yes. One bite knocked him unconcious, one full attack would've killed him. Either way he was dead when he thought it was a good idea to risk pissing off a troll.
>>47741926
I don't think he's a nobhead, and I'm neither him nor trying to start an argument.
>>47741930
>Then don't try and intimidate a creature you know can do this? Especially one drunk off his ass.
>Character is a cocky magician up his own ass with mediocre intelligence and wisdom
>Tries to intimidate a drunk troll
>GM kills him off for it
Great roleplaying game you got there dude
>>47741956
>Level 3 encounter
>A troll
>That can full attack
Anon...
>>47741961
Yeah, sounds reasonable.
>>47741930
>how dare that player do something in character, he should have known better!
>>47741974
>Play a lecherous Bard
>Make a pass at some noble lady
>Her man whistles
>Guards filter out from a nearby house and stab you to death with spears
Great
Game
Guy
>>47741876
>>GM recognizes this as a really cool, memorable moment and allows it to happen anyway
Yeah, it would have been had they succeed. They did something that wasn't likely to succeed. That thing was dangerous, they paid for it. Part of what makes moments like that awesome is that they seem unlikely in the first place.
>>47741973
CR level+2 is actually a reasonable encounter, least in theory. Party killed it later in its lair, I believe the DM said. Sorcerer would've been fine if he hadn't pissed it off.
>>47741988
>Strawman
>>47741983
>My character spits in the dragon's face
>Whaddya mean it attacks me? I'm just doing what my character would do!
'it's what my character would do' is no excuse for anything, or a reason to let a character get away with doing something exceedingly dumb.
>>47741956
>Can't remember what class the PC was
>d4s for HP when this is Pathfinder
>A single full-attack can kill him, instead of "a bite would knock out half his health, a full-attack would have knocked him unconscious, the party has one extra round of grace to save his life"
So, how many openings are in your game now?
>>47741988
No, but saying "hey bby want some fuk" to a noble is begging for trouble.
>>47741951
The awful kind anon the kind that feeds some kind of awful addiction
>>47741983
He did something in character. So did the troll. Should the troll just have rolled over? Trolls are violent sociopaths as a species, and this was a drunk violent sociopath who just watched a guy refuse his toll and try and threaten him.
>>47742043
No but acting like the player is an idiot for playing their character straight is just insulting
>>47741995
Imagine watching a movie and the lithe and nimble assassin tries to swing across a ballroom via a chandelier! What a cool scene! He then falls and snaps his neck on impact with the ground.
Great movie, huh?
>>47742023
>>My character spits in the dragon's face
>>Whaddya mean it attacks me? I'm just doing what my character would do!
>'it's what my character would do' is no excuse for anything, or a reason to let a character get away with doing something exceedingly dumb.
>Character spits in the dragon's face
>Dragon kills him
Fuck, you're a terrible GM.
Here's how it actually goes down, you fucking mong:
>Character spits in dragon's face
>Dragon curses the character, literally with a spell, and either leaves the scene or forces the party out
>>47741951
>players should be immortal super beings that are never in danger
No, RPGs are GAMES as well. You use the results of the GAME to tell a story, sometimes those stories are of triumphant victory, snatched from defeat, other times it's a slow descent into an utter clusterfuck of death in the bowels of the earth.
Losing can be fun anon.
>>47742073
Not in this case, if it's a boring pointless death.
>>47742038
>So, how many openings are in your game now?
If you think I'm the DM, you're mistaken.
My mistake on PF, forgot what thread I was in. But still 10 con so he has what, 13 HP? Less if he rolled poorly. Either way it bit him and he went unconscious, this we know. So yes, a full attack would have killed him.
>>47742072
>Dragon tolerates one of the lesser species literally spitting in his face
Bending over backwards to keep PCs alive is just as bad as playing a Tomb of Horrors game. Just look at all the people who complain about DMs making things too easy.
>>47742054
Where was it even established this was the sorcerer's character? And what part of that character obligates him to act suicidally?
>>47742055
Yes, actually. Movies don't need happy endings to be good.
>>47742085
Your death is only meaningless if you choose to make so. Combat always carries the threat of failure, and with that failure comes a chance to die. The world shouldn't just fucking kneel to you because you're the PC.
>>47742073
Losing can be fun, yes.
But losing should also be part of the story.
Losing an encounter against the BBEG's elite mercenaries sets them up as great badguys, sets up a rivalry, makes the players seek vengeance, and launches a plethora of sidequests and subplots.
Random encounters, such as the bridge troll in question, exist to give the party XP, gold, and a few moments to show off. They can be cool if done well, and usually are. But losing to them is meaningless. This is a GAME, but not a VIDEO GAME. Losing a character to a pack of nameless, faceless enemies is not only meaningless, dumb and frustrating for EVERYONE at the table, it's also downright a waste of time that messes up the game for no reason whatsoever.
>>47742097
>Bending over backwards to keep PCs alive
And saying you don't die when you fuck up something very dangerous is bending over backwards.
>>47741083
>not being able to recover from 3/4ths your hp getting BTFO
sounds like you need a healer. or you need to get gud
>>47742097
>Just look at all the people who complain about DMs making things too easy.
There is a big difference between encounters that literally deal 4 damage before being massacred and the GM not having a powerful creature massacre you for a transgression.
Look, think about it this way - if a hobo comes up to you on the street and calls you a "fucking dishface" and tries to punch you, how do you respond? By killing him on the spot, yeah? Of course!
>>47742147
Trolls aren't human. They are as a species sociopaths, and this one was drunk off his ass. It's like being surprised when goblins eat babies.
>>47742054
I'm not saying the player is stupid. I like that player. He didn't mind the consequences. In saying people saying it should have had consequences are dumb.
>>47742111
>The world shouldn't just fucking kneel to you because you're the PC.
Actually, yes it should.
The PCs are the main characters of the fucking world.
The world ACTUALLY revolves around them.
It's the GM's job to make it SEEM otherwise, but not actually MAKE it be otherwise.
If you disagree with this, then, well, too bad. Your games are not games I would enjoy at all, and I honestly feel bad for anyone who plays them and doesn't know full well the other ways that the game can, and in my opinion SHOULD, be played.
Let's be real for a moment - all of us here, and I mean all of us, lead boring if not miserable lives. Why on earth would we want to replicate that in our fantastical game about magicians and grand adventures?
>>47742130
Exactly, or at least in this specific scenario. If the player was just playing his character, the DM was just playing the troll.
To put it a different way, what's supposed to happen when the troll gets refused? The evil creature looking for food that also has a reputation to maintain, and has a perfectly killable meal talking shit right in front of him?
>>47742147
>Look, think about it this way - if a hobo comes up to you on the street and calls you a "fucking dishface" and tries to punch you, how do you respond? By killing him on the spot, yeah? Of course!
No, but if I was a murdering cannibal guarding a bridge when someone much, much weaker than me tried to scare me into letting him pass, I'd kill him dead. Trolls aren't sensible, reasonable members of society, and the party knew this one was drunk to boot.
What happens if you get a size bonus from going Large/Huge from a spell on a creature that is already Large or larger?
>>47742118
You're the one who seems to want a video game. You don't have permanent consequences in games, you don't seem to want any.
>>47742184
This.
Holy shit bitching about character death like this.
come the fuck on. he tried to intimidate a troll.
>>47742118
>But losing to them is meaningless.
Not necessarily You have another antagonist. The PC's could want revenge later. Maybe eating the sorcerer causes the Troll to grow more intelligent and charismatic and gain some magical ability, rallying the locale monster population over the coming months.
>, exist to give the party XP, gold, and a few moments to show off
It also exists to show them(both player and character) that the world is a dangerous place to fucking wander around, and that danger lurks around every corner and not all of it conveniently scales to you. If you want to give them gold, they should either earn it or find it. May as well just leave cache cubes that only open for people controlled by players that grant XP and gold.
If you want every fucking character to have a GREAT DESTINY guaranteed, play fucking Exalted.
>>47742181
>Why on earth would we want to replicate that in our fantastical game about magicians and grand adventures?
Because I actually want to earn that, and I want to see players earn that. I mean actually fucking earn it.
>>47742181
What kind of fucked up thinking is this? God fucking damn
>>47742192
You are putting words into my mouth, anon. Come on.
Me saying that meaningless filler encounters shouldn't be deadly is not wanting permanent consequences?
In the same post I state that losing to a meaningful encounter sets up all kinds of consequences and I clearly state that this is preferable to me.
>>47742214
But every character SHOULD have a "GREAT DESTINY"
They are the HEROES.
They are the MAIN CHARACTERS of the story.
I'm not saying it should come easily, but it SHOULD come.
>>47742227
One can earn their rewards without having to slog through 19 new character sheets to get there.
Being beaten to within an inch of your life and left to bleed out in a gutter is preferable to being killed and having to shoehorn in a new character, surely?
Arguments like these make me glad I don't have to deal with these levels of apathy from my gm/GMs who are competent enough to know when to flib rolls and aren't stuck up their own asses about their God like powers in the game.
We're here to have fun, not reinact trench warfare, unless we actually are.
>>47742227
this holy shit. Pathfinder gives you so much power to work with, Even the fucking "shit" classes can hit above their weight. Players are more than capable of not dying and even shitting on some creatures that are double their CR or more. All this is is just bitching that bad things happen when the players stick their dicks in bee hives. If they didn't want trouble at the bridge troll, they should have swam across or paid their fucking dues. They picked a fight, and they picked it while acting dumber than the troll, they deserved the casualties.
>>47741629
>>47742181
Wow, are you serious?
>>47742255
But every character SHOULD have a "GREAT DESTINY"
They are the HEROES.
They are the MAIN CHARACTERS of the story.
I'm not saying it should come easily, but it SHOULD come.
Why?
Why should the world revolve around you?
>>47742257
>baww i should be able to stick my dick in as many bee hives as I like. the dm needs to just flub rolls for when I do stupid shit.
flubbing rolls is when the troll crits the fighter at level 3 and you don't want that bad luck to kill him.
you know
these threads are normally so good i sometimes forget this is 4chan
but then i remember again
>>47742189
Er, anyone? Trying to answer this question for someone ekse, apparently their Large outsider is using Frightful Aspect and we weren't sure what happens.
>>47742255
>One can earn their rewards without having to slog through 19 new character sheets to get there.
It's a good thing nobody's suggesting that then. If a player makes a horrible mistake, and their character dies, what's the problem?
Hell, look at the troll example. Player didn't mind, made a new character with the same depth of backstory, so what's the problem?
>>47742181
Your real life must be really shit
>>47742282
Anon stop being so pissy, pathfinder isn't as serious business as you want it to be.
>>47742285
All it takes is one autist who stubbornly refuses to listen to literally everyone else, if it weren't for that we could have a nice thread again. Do you ever wonder what it's like to completely lack self awareness like that?
>>47742280
I clearly state that there.
The PCs are the main characters.
The story is about them.
About their challenges and their trials.
A friend may be lost along the way, as it often happens on such quests, but having the main characters be constantly dragged through the mud, massacred, and switched with different people is just unbelievable.
>>47741095
>LotR
Boromir died to some random orcs.
>>47742285
Autism is a hell of a drug
>>47742255
>They are the MAIN CHARACTERS of the story.
>every main character is a hero
>every main character is victorious
>every main character gets his happy ending
Anon, you need to read more books.
or watch more movies
or play more videogames
You just really, really need to expand your horizons. Do that for me anon. Please.
>>47742295
You go up a size. It's not really that complicated.
>>47742318
No it's really not like that at all, and to think like that makes you extremely egotistical
>>47742335
Frightful Aspect specifies;
'You grow to size Large, and take on features that horrify your enemies. You gain the following abilities: a +6 size bonus to Strength, a +4 size bonus to Constitution..'
It's the 'You grow to size Large' and Size bonus parts that are causing the rules dilemma.
>>47742318
Why do you feel the need to capitalize random words?
>>47740870
>>47740935
>tfw I issued my players a warning at chargen
>told them that this would be a highly dangerous campaign, and with the two of them as the only members of the group, death is pretty likely
>they give me a look like "WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO BEFORE" and start pumping out character ideas they've been wanting to play
>they've each got three backup characters, but haven't gotten to use them yet because the first ones have only almost died
It's been fun, and they're constantly chomping at the bit to continue playing.
They've told me I do a pretty good job of keeping the fights unpredictable in difficulty, whether it's a large group of cheesy hobgoblins (which they murderfucked thanks to my low to-hit rolls) and a pair of homebrew monsters (that gave them one hell of a run for their money and may have blasted them with enervation a couple times).
>>47742320
That had a point, though.
They were random orcs, but his death served a purpose for the plot.
Imagine if he died and then nobody ever mentioned him again and he lost all plot relevance, instantly being replaced by someone else.
>>47742330
It's fine if the group wants to play a bunch of anti-heroes or weak, nameless adventurers. That's their thing. What I'm talking about is the standard for tabletop RPGs. That's how it's meant to be played - grand deeds, grand heroes, happy endings. I'm not trying to force it onto people or stating that it's the superior way to play. I am simply saying that it's how the game is meant to go, and trying to insinuate that, no, having the party be weak and constantly dying is how it's meant to be, is just not true. If that's how it goes for your group, cool, sure. But coming into the thread with what amounts as "you people are all wrong and I am right, this is how you play and if you disagree you can fuck off you whining babies" is not alright.
>>47741766
>anything even approaching low fantasy or low magic
>Pathfinder
Are you a masochist, by any chance?
>>47742365
Because you can't use italics here, and doing /this/ makes me look pretentious.
>>47742377
Your autism and massive ego needs to calm the fuck down
>>47742392
Seems alright on paper - all the faggotry of fullcasters thrown out the window, just a bunch of rogues, fighters and rangers roaming around, getting into adventures. Maybe you meet A Wizard and it's a big ol' deal. That'd be nice once in a while.
I mean, last session I literally conjured a ship, went into my private demiplane, got a bunch of corpses out, animated them as a skeletal crew for the ship, and then ferried the party to our destination. I'm sure I completely circumnavigated a whole bunch of encounters and shit the GM had planned, y'know.
>>47742447
Is necromancy truly the most powerful of the schools? I can't think of s problem that skeletons can't solve
>>47742377
>durr its how its spossed to run cuz i sed so
You are talking about a game where by raw you can gain 1 hp 1 for leveling up in a melee class. You are talking about a game woth almost no narrative mechanics that are universal except hero points. You are talking about a game that is near universally agreed to run better under level 14 and for half that a x3 crit will just kill you. It only has to happen once. Pathfinder is not a narrative system, go find a game that suits this opinion and stop deluding yourself that pathfinder is that one.
>>47742357
No it's not causing a dilema. You grow to large size, period. You gain these bonuses, period. If a human uses alter self to be medium size, they still get the +2 strength.
>>47741614
I'm loving the bard in the bottom right doing one last bard thing before the skeleton army kills everyone.
>>47742487
So they don't get bigger but they do gain the bonuses. Got it.
>>47742377
Calm your autism, holy shit.
