>Board Games are growing and mainstream
>Tabletop rpg are in decline and niche
Why
The amount of time you have to invest is unsuitable or undesirable for modern society
>>47739136
This. RPGs inherently require long-term investment from at least one participant (And ideally all of them). You have to plan out weeks ahead for times to get together and have to plan at least some amount of game content as well.
Whereas board games, card games and similar rarely carry over from session to session.
>>47739002
Could you provide any data and sources for that, OP?
>>47739002
I have seen nothing saying TTRPGs are in decline, and the sales and amount of systems imply it's on the rise.
>>47739002
>Board Games are growing and mainstream
Board games have always been mainstream. Which reminds me, I probably should get Song of Swords or some other miniature skirmish game. Folks here really liked Heroquest, but I personally always found it unsatisfying as the foreverDM.
>>47739002
because RPGs have too much of a learning curve.
The interest in RPGs is larger than ever I honestly think as gaming is more mainstream and RPGs are almost mythologised experiences with shows like Community and that sort of thing.
I have at least 12 people of different friend groups wanting me to run games for them many who have the beginners boxes but still can't get their head around or confidence up for DMing.
>>47739002
sjwfaggots want to hop on the "I'm so nerdy" bandwagon but trpg are too difficult to figure out for most of those retards, so they play boardgames instead. even then casualized shit like 5e is bringing more of the sjw fuckwads than is healthy for the hobby anyways
>>47739002
Board games are growing? All I hear about are video games, because people are too lazy to get out of their chair. The closest thing I think to TTRPGs that ARE growing would be MMORPGs.Yet despite this laziness to get out of your chair or invest a full day in something, my group is still against using Roll20 or voice chat to have mini-sessions. So we're still stuck on once-a-month-and-a-half deals.
>>47739002
Board games have developed a lot independantly because they are easier to MAKE, not learn. I mean some indie RPGs aren't more than 100 pages, but generally in order to compete in the space you need the support of dozens of modules and world-building content. Then there's the fact that they're easily piratable, discouraging anyone who might want to have gotten into the RPG market.
In terms of player popularity they're both seeing growth, but board games are seeing a lot more new releases, innovation, and a thriving sales market. RPG books tend to rot on store shelves because there's no innovation, everyone's pirating, and really many people would rather world-build themselves
>>47739002
it's better that way. Look at what happened with vidya.
>>47739498
>casualized shit like 5e
You mean "not full of trap options and Ivory Tower game design" shit.
Casuals can play it because it's not some horrifying snarl of a game.
>>47740318
Maybe he mistyped 4e?
>>47739163
Depends on the game. There are plenty of fine RPGs that go on for a single night.
Of coure, the fanbase being nostalgic autistics, they don't know them, and that adds to the perception (at least) of RPGs being "time-consuming".
>>47740286
This anon got it.
>>47740286
>RPG books tend to rot on store shelves because there's no innovation, everyone's pirating, and really many people would rather world-build themselves
And not every player needs a rulebook. Most groups have only one copy that is borrowed.
>>47740286
>RPG books tend to rot on store shelves because there's no innovation, everyone's pirating, and really many people would rather world-build themselves
>everyone's pirating
This is a problem, it got so bad that one store the owner was telling me that he bans people that bring in laptops to play games because they hurt his business. I mentioned that WotC sold PDFs online (4e was still new). He said that those people still weren't buying from HIM.
I didn't go back to that store after that.
>>47742000
What's the problem with a store owner being concerned about actually making money off the people who treat his store like public property?
If coffee-shops can get pissed at the people who hold business meetings on their premises and spend like $3 each, why can't a game shop get pissed that his shop is full of people who don't fucking buy games?
>>47742000
>I didn't go back to that store after that.
Was he wrong? You don't help his business in any way in the long run. He might sound too rude but I can understand that given his situation.
>>47740351
Nah, he must have meant 3e.
>>47739002
I dunno, maybe some of the aspergs who play TTRPG are bad at teaching their friends about the game? I have like 5 friends who I've directly/indirectly gotten into a few different game systems in the past couple of years, a few of whom are basically normies. Even though the games are a bit more casual, beer-drinking occasions they still get into character and involved with the story.
>In decline
>The RPG industry and hobby is the largest it's ever been
Boardgames are exploding because they're a lighter social gaming experience. The games getting really huge these days aren't Twilight Imperium or ultra-deep eurogames, they're social deduction games like The Resistance or lighter fare which can be played in an hour. Those games still have value, but it's easy to see why shorter and more casual experiences are getting more interest.
Roleplaying games, meanwhile, take a lot of work. In most systems character generation alone can take the entire length of a board game session. Part of it is also a degree of division within the RPG scene. You see it in board games too, but it's a lot more common, at least in my experience, to see old school roleplayers sneer at lighter or more modern RPGs as 'storygames' and such, even though their degree of simplicity and accessibility would probably be a great way of introducing people to the hobby.
>>47742313
They should be almost as annoyed or more annoyed that they can't find ways to get them to spend more.
You don't turn people away who buy things, you try to find ways to make them buy more things.
Or more expensive things.
That, or you find ways to move them along without being too obnoxious about it, or at least that won't upset your main clientele. Like, if the music annoys the "one cup of coffee yuppie meeting seating captializers" but everyone else likes or at least tolerates it, play that music.
If you were a bunch of industrial efficiency worshiping fucks like McDonalds you would make the chairs uncomfortable.
But mostly? Try and get people who spend at least something to spend more.
>>47742478
>You don't turn people away who buy things
But these people didn't buy anything
Nobody wants something that has both much more time investment and requires you to deal more with fat bitter poorly adjusted grognards.
>>47742478
>>47742499
An LGS I used to frequent always had a fridge of drinks and snacks available to buy. The owner sold games, boosters and books up front, and the people in the back paid for their time with a steady requirement for snacks and sustenance. He charged a little more than normal, but it was worth it for the convenience.
>My LGS is losing to the internet, the thread
>>47742343
>Was he wrong?
To paraphase The Big Lebowski, no, he's not wrong, he's just an asshole. And IMO, anon is well within his rights to decide to not patronize an LGS that comes off as hostile or has a dickish owner.
>>47742551
>he's just an asshole
Everyone who doesn't let you do what you want is an asshole, right? That's a good childish logic you show. If that anon didn't buy anything or bring potential customers he didn't patronize it at all.
Less autism and less of a time investment for board games. It comes down to doing something at once with an all ecompasing ruleset to trying to schedule an opening every single week with a relatively open ended ruleset.
>>47742594
Nope, he's an asshole because he's a dumb businessman. He's aggressively trying to force people into his business model rather than adapting to what customers want and figuring out a way to make money from them. His actions wouldn't increase his income, they'd decrease his potential market share, on top of just being a dick.
>>47742672
>he's an asshole because he's a dumb businessman
You are moving the goalposts right now. I'm losing you.
How long until the first Boarg Game-RPG hybrids?
>>47742764
They already exist and have done for more than a decade?
Whether it's dungeon crawlers like Descent, storytelling games like Tales of the Arabian Nights or even RPGs using boardgame style components like Warhammer 3e, it's been tried and experimented with a lot, to varying degrees of success.
>>47739002
Have you ever tried to get 4 people together for at least four to six hours a week just play a role playing game?
>>47742672
>McDonalds kicked me out for bringing Burger King in again what the fuck
A lot of people don't know you can pirate rulebooks
If someone kept coming in and telling customers "Yeah I saved 40 bucks by just getting it online" then I'm sure it'd drive down business and there's a very good chance that's part of what he's worried about
>>47739516
MMORPGs are declining m8 it's all about MOBAs now
>>47739002
>hey, first time player, do you mind reading 200 pages long rulebook?
>>47742499
The fuck I didn't. He made this comment as I was buying 4e books.
>>47742313
>>47742343
I wasn't trying to get him arrested for not allowing people to use laptops, but this guy had one shelf of RPG books and didn't even carry the latest books for 4e that were coming out. And, like other people pointed out, he sounded like an asshole, I am within my rights to not frequent that store. Know what gets me to spend more money in a place? Friendly atmosphere.
>>47739002
So, is this a bad thing because it means there are less people to play with or a good thing because something something [picture of a screaming frog] less normies?
>>47739002
Theatre of the mind.
>>47739002
Board games are casual, easy to learn, and usually quick to play.
Tabletop RPGs are complex enough to be difficult to learn initially and they take an unlimited amount of time to play. Also, you've got MMOs like World of Warcraft eating up much of the potential fanbase.
>>47739516
Dude MMORPGs are fucking dying outside of Korea.
>>47742912
What is unreasonable like that? People who do not read 300 page thick RPG/wargame books for fun are probably not going to be engaged enough to be worth inviting.
>>47743475
>>47742912
Newbies don't have to read this. Newbies are introduced by friends who know how to play and give them a quick heads-up before the game, the rest will be lerned during the game. Ideally they can observe a session before first play.
>>47743475
You're exactly answering the question.
>>47744148
And then you have whole communities who think critical fumble is a core rule, long after all who came up with this nonsense are already dead.
>>47742517
My current LGS is bloody brilliant as far as that stuff goes - you can pay to use the hot drinks machine as much as you want at a decent price, and the vending machine's prices don't even have a premium above what you'd pay in shops (hell it's better than a bunch of the shops around here).
>>47744207
Are you talking D&D? If yes, this conversation is over, we're talking real RPGs here.
>>47739002
The only thing that tabletop games really offer that board games or videogames don't is flexibility with imagination, and even that requires a large amount of effort on the part of the players and the GM.
A shitty session of tabletop will never feel as good as a night of board games with friends, and even a really great campaign has more difficulty hiding its flaws because you aren't distracted by sweet graphics or banter.
>>47739163
My job makes playing ttrpgs impossible. I don't have a set schedule, and I could get called into work anytime.
As someone who tried to get into rpgs all i can say is that every game i played just felt flat and unsatisfying.
The Player characters felt more like PCs than actual real people.
I guess it's kind like superhero comics in America. The comic fandom came to expect certain thing out of the comics but those things tend to also keep most people away.
I sometimes watch Linkara review comics and every times he says something like :this is why comics are the only entertainment i like: it's for some retarded thing that you only see in comics
>>47739002
Assuming that's true (maybe is is, I don't know), I would expect it has something to do with people who would otherwise try out "that D&D thing" getting sucked into board games instead.
Board games are more socially acceptable, they're theoretically easier to get into, and some of them can even give you a similar vibe (pic related, though that one was explicitly designed as "D&D super-lite").
>>47744320
>The only thing
That's actually a huge thing
>>47744686
It's a huge thing, but as games and boardgames get more flexible, and people just...I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like they're more inspired by videogames and other media than legitimately trying to create things themselves. They don't want a magical fantasy world, but reskinned Skyrim.
>>47744320
No, there's nothing better, nothing more IMMERSIVE than a good P&P rpg session. Boardgames lack story/immersion and videogames lack the freedom, the imagination, the direct interaction with friends.
>Game of Thrones is a huge hit; people still read ASOIAF
>>47742424
Fuck that 'introducing people to the hobby' spiel. Just because a system is lighter than AD&D doesn't make it worse. Different systems appeal to different people, which is why RPGs are more popular now than they've ever been.
>>47744574
Were you playing with actual friends are just randoms online?
>>47742764
Wargames?
>>47744207
Crit fumbles are core rules in some games, though.
>>47744778
You know how you sometimes have difficulty coming up with imaginative ideas for your games or characters? Imagine someone just coming into the hobby, without any sort of roleplaying experience. At best, they have difficulty really getting into things because they have a narrow view of what tabletop is actually like and how they should act with a group. At worst, they think it's a bunch of math on a paper sheet, with a bunch of weirdos all playing make believe.
>>47744367
t. grocery store employee
>>47746000
>with a bunch of weirdos all playing make believe
But that's the truth. And if I wanted to be an angsty teenager (the age most people get into RPGs I think) I would say "But that's life" and pretend I'm so deep.
>>47739002
Assuming that's true, it's probably because board games have always been there and there's no need to introduce anyone. Everyone has played or knows about chess, poker or other traditional family board and card games that vary depending on the country (I was about to say ludo/pachisi but apparently it's not that common in the USA). Jumping into more "nerdy" games is just the next step, easy for a lot of people.
Tabletop rpg, all of them, are something completely new for everyone before trying it. That's why most rpg books include the classic "what is a rpg" section. The only "contact" most people has with them before trying is american media like that episode of Dexter's Lab where they play D&D. They don't really know what rpgs are and the notion of playing pretend surprizes a lot of people, sometimes adversely.
Like, I met that girl who wanted to get into "roleplaying games like his brother" but the brother actually just played Heroquest with little or no roleplaying.
>>47746087
I have the same issue as that guy, but I'm I get paid an obscene amount to be on-call.
t. consultant who wishes he had lower pay but better work-life balance.
>>47746087
I'm actually an apprentice funeral director. Well I am now, but I don't plan to be much longer. Getting called out of bed at 2AM to pick up some stiff from a nursing home, then having to be up at 7am to stand around doing jackshit during a funeral sucks ass.
>>47747256
Did dealing with corpses take a lot of getting used to? I've always wondered about that kind of job.
>>47747311
Surprisingly no. But then again I had a really shitty father who let me watch horror movies as a kid so I as desensitized to things pretty early. What initially threw me off was more seeing naked old people. At first I tried to look as little possible, or cover their junk when embalming or dressing them, but now it doesn't phase me.
The only time it really bothers me still is when its a little kid or baby.
>>47744367
I played with a guy like that. Did oil testing or something (and by testing I think he drove samples or just provided a kit or something, he was not a tech). He had to bail during the middle of a game once but he was still able to play normally.
