Starting my first Torchbearer campaign (as GM) in a few days.
Any advice?
>>47704953
To clarify: First time with Torchbearer, not first time as a GM.
why torchbearer?
>>47705027
I enjoyed playing DnD but it was a bit rigid and sometimes felt too much like its mechanics worked parallel to the narrative, rather than woven through it.
I enjoyed playing FATE games but it felt like it relied too much on the players negotiating with the GM instead of doing what came naturally, and its challenges felt unsatisfying to "solve" because the system is built to have few limits, to always say "yes," even if it's a qualified yes.
I enjoyed Descent but didn't want to roleplay in it; it's clearly there solely to provide the kind of tactical challenge lacking in FATE, and to do nothing else.
I've wanted to run a gritty game that recognizes the reality that in most settings, adventuring is dangerous work for desperate people, which is what Torchbearer is made for, and it seems like it might also be the happy middle ground between the other three I mentioned.
I struggled not post "run something"
just that's an awfully roundabout way to play D&D
>>47705205
fuck typing like a retard ignore me
>>47705205
DnD wouldn't actually be a very good replacement, though. DnD has been a power fantasy since about 2nd edition, wheras Torchbearer is more of a powerlessness fantasy, like horror games.
I could update 1st ed with everything the hobby has learned in 40 years, but they already did that. It's called Torchbearer.
>>47705267
basic and its retroclones are not power fantasies
torchbearer is a relief compared to burning wheel but all the why make something as D&D complicated?
sorry to attack premise of question rather than provide advice for running torchbearer, I will go away now
>>47705310
I believe I have already answered your question.
The mechanics look exciting and the game is written for the sort of campaign I want. DnD does not on either count.
Isn't that enough?
What's Torchbearer like compared to DnD? Mechanically, I mean.
>>47705391
weirdly complicated to achieve the same ends - like Dungeon World ... not that Torchbearer is mechanically like Dungeon World but in the sense that both are D&D simulators
>>47705391
It's a lot more narrativist but without going full on FATE. Players write their Beleif and Goals from scratch but the rest is more traditionaly stats-oriented. There's hard limits on things like what skills can be used to help other skills, etc.
Classes and class levels are there but they aren't the most important thing on your sheet, Skills are, and they increase gradually but only if a character is pushing him or her self - you have to succeed AND fail at something a number of times to advance it.
Kinda the easiest thing to explain, that will get across some of its design principles, is that a number of survival-related elements included in RPGs since their creation, but which are typically ignored or inconsequential, such as encumbrance and managing light, are implemented as central features of Torchbearer, while being boiled down to chunky, low-management mechanics.
It's also about pushing your luck. How far down can you get and make it back alive? What can you afford to drop in order to carry out that treasure?
People compare it to the video game Darkest Dungeon a lot, or sometimes Dark Souls.
>>47705492
Another good way to convey its tone would be noting that it does not use hit points.
Instead, PCs progress down The Grind. You don't roll dice as often as you might in DnD, but every roll is a Turn. Every light source lasts a certain number of Turns, and *every four Turns* each player takes the leftmost condition they don't already have from the Grind. These are things like Hungry, Angry, Injured, Sick, and Afraid. Each of these also has a small effect on their options during play but cumulatively they really start to act like a straightjacket.
Players may also acquire conditions on the Grind from combat and failing Tests (you decipher the runes, but it takes you so long you find it impossible to shake your frustration. Take Angry), and also have some measures to get rid of them.
But if that fourth Turn comes around, and you've already got every condition marked off, you drop dead from exhaustion. While they're adventuring, PCs are literally on a countdown toward death; though of course, that's not the only way to die in Torchbearer.
Hopefully this provides an example of how Torchbearer really isn't the same sort of game as DnD at all. Thematically, sure, it's intentionally derived from classic DnD, but its mechanics are wholly different.
>>47705611
Fuck, I had a whole big response typed up, but then...lost it? Fucked If I know what happened. Second try, lazy version:
1. Team combat is weird. Get ready to explain helping and the rock-paper-scissors thing a lot.
2. Use twists when you can, instead of conditions. Conditions are nice, but the party has those coming either way. Twists that make everything worse are generally more fun for everybody, unless you really, REALLY just want them to climb out of this fucking pit already or whatever.
>>47705423
You...you think Dungeon World is complicated? That's deeply sad.
>>47706195
I think he just meant to say it approaches D&D tropes from an unusual direction. Like Torchbearer.
Or maybe he's just one of those guys that's all "hurr 400 pages!"
>>47706254
I'll admit if you approach it with a traditional D&D mechanical mindset it takes some...readjustment. Still, mechanically complex it isn't.
>>47706254
Correct, I meant it is complicated in the sense of going around your elbow to wipe your ass. Another way of saying pointless or unnecessary.
>>47706254
It's retarded to have 400 pages of text for a "rules-light" game, no matter how you spin it with your hurr-durrs.
>>47709044
I like having a monster manual included, and a whole "how to homebrew for this system" manual crammed in too. And I like the clean wide layout of the pages. If you want to let everything be cramped like a lot of other rulebooks, you could cram it into 130 pages like the Pocket edition does, but that just makes it harder on the eyes, and harder to reference quickly.
I don't understand this complaint at all. All you really need when you sit down to play is character sheets, the basic/advanced move sheet, and maybe a couple of sheets for the DM with DM moves/stuff, and equipment lists. The other stuff is just gravy.
Are you REALLY mad that they gave you more than absolutely necessary?
