>Spirit of the Law over the Letter of the Law
Can a paladin follow this and not fall?
>>47704043
You can fall either way.
>>47704043
If your DM is shit then yes. He'll probably make it happen anyway.
>>47704043
sometimes the hardest thing for a paladin to do is to do nothing. sometimes that is what is needed to preserve the peace.
>>47704043
Depends on the paladins god.
>>47704113
You fall.
>>47704043
basically, if you follow the letter of the law, you will prosper here on earth, but you're spirit will suffer. If you follow the spirit of the law, you will suffer here on earth, but you're spirit will prosper.
>>47704137
we all fall. it is only by the grace of the divinities that we are saved.
>>47704043
That is literally how I play all my Paladins and I've never once fallen because of it.
It helps if you don't have a shit DM though.
>>47704153
either way, there is no escaping suffering.
>>47704183
All unfit paladins must be reconditioned
>>47704043
the truth is bringing order and peace, whether it be worldly or spiritual, is a noble end to itself.
>>47704043
>If we assume a DM who isn't a total ass
Then of course, hell various D&D settings are filled with lore on Paladins following the spirit of law, or even abandoning laws altogether due to them being corrupt.
>If we assume a DM who is shit
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>>47704210
unfit how?
like, physically?
I would love to run a campaign that had a little more historical context and wasn't basically just "World of Warcraft" on tabletop.
the problem is that warhammer gives you the culture without the lore and d&d gives you the lore without the culture.
The real question is if you can you fallow both.
>>47704280
>internet explorer
>>47704280
>saving thumbnails
>>47704280
You got a legible version of that, anon?
>>47704280
I want to hurt you.
>>47704043
Depends if the law was really old and didn't have adequate future proofing. For example, old laws applying to electronic mediums today.
>>47704043
A paladin doesn't fall because of what they follow or what they do, they fall when they lose their faith.
Called common law bro
>>47704043
You can bend it, and if you make it hot enough you can bend it in a circle, but you can’t break it. When you break it, it all breaks down until there’s nothing unbroken.
>>47704043
What if we reformulate the law so it is better written and closer to its spirit?
Good>Law
Always
>>47704043
When has a paladin ever been about the letter? He follows the law when the law is just.
The newer alternate oaths might vary on that, however.
>>47704280
>>47705662
>that last line
Why would you do thatthat? Way too much interpret conflict. Unless they're all planning on a redemption or corruption storyline it really doesn't work.
>>47704234
Unfit. Unacceptable.
>>47706914
This.
A Paladin is free to disobey the Law if he believes it's evil or would cause greater harm. He falls if he disregards the law entirely and did it with malicious purpose.
Believe it or not, it's kind of hard for PC Paladins to fall without player intent, they'd purposely have to do something evil. Hell, if a Paladin kills a innocent civilian by being tricked into doing it, he'd probably still wouldn't fall if his deity was forgiving enough and understood, so long as he atones and seeks justice from it.
DMs like fucking with Paladins because they're restrictive in RP, so it's easy for a DM to "punish" the Paladin.
Letter. The purpose of Law is to provide structure and predictability to life. It says "Under such and such conditions, certain things will be done to you". The benefit of it is twofold. Restrictions and guidance put on others makes one safer and restriction and guidance put on one is making them more trustworthy.
If you can waggle the law on a whim, it is useless. Law can be altered, but outside of modification, it must remain rigid.
>>47706950
Common enemy.
Friends despite their conflicting personal codes.
They can find common ground between them.
There are multiple reasons a mixed alignment party can and will work together without, or with minimal, interpersonal conflict.
>>47704183
We all fall, but when you fall, fall from a height that no man has ever reached.
>>47708284
I thought DM's fucked with paladins because thy have a kryptonite.
Give any class a big red 'fuck you' button like that and I bet you'll get the same shitty catch-22 traps being constructed by the same shitty DMs to have the Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, etc all fall as well.
>>47710630
Well, clerics do too, but for someone reason no one ever tries to fuck with clerics.I've given every cleric in my games a crises of faith though
>>47704079
Got it in one post.
>>47710649
>for someone reason no one ever tries to fuck with clerics
Clerics are expected to be reasonable. If you try to get a cleric to move out of your way, they will probably agree, and if they don't agree it is clearly because that one cleric is just a jackass and not at all because it is his duty as a cleric to not back down. Similarly , paladins are expected to be unreasonable, and the paladin that stands aside is never deeming something as outside of his jurisdiction, but rather is doing it because he's your pal who you've been partying with for so long.
>>47704043
You will fall regardless.
It's what you get for playing a class with a built in plot hook.
>>47704043
>>Spirit of the Law over the Letter of the Law
>Can a paladin follow this and not fall?
If god wills it, yes.
>>47706950
Here's the cap without the "lel I'm so edgy look at me" post.
And before anyone jumps down my fucking throat, that IS the correct use of "edgy", since anon was playing a good guy in a bad game just to be a contrarian faggot.
Fall?
Paladins don't fall. Or rather, you can't "make" a paladin fall. Some obtuse series of events that force a shoehorned moral decision cannot make a paladin fall. Only the paladin can make themselves fall, when the know, really and truly, they are no longer in the graces of what they devote themselves to, whether it be a god or righteousness itself.
If he acts truly and justly in all that he does, he shall be forgiven when a dark choice is foisted upon him by some malevolent deityShitty DM, provided he atones and continues to uphold the light of virtue as best as a mortal can.
Only the weak-willed fall, for their faith is frail. Faith in the gods, and faith in their cause.
>>47713385
Alternatively, a paladin falls when he willingly casts aside his discipline and convictions to throw them in the face of the thing that brought him to that conclusion.
Paladins don't usually lie, torture, or act beyond their place in the law. Sometimes, however, they're driven to a place where they simply cannot restrain themselves anymore, and will bring their wrath down upon an evil with such extremity that it brings them a catharsis that only falling can bring. One moment of wrath with a punishment of a breached oath or banishment.
>>47704043
imo paladin is more invested in the Spirit of Law, rather than letter of the law. There can be unjust, or even Evil laws, but maintain that Law of some sort is required, and those laws must be Good.
>>47704043
Law is the favored tool of Tyrants.
Justice is the only true path of righteousness
