I often see the "Paladin falls" meme thread and their controversial ethic stories. Is there also an Anti-Paladin falls analogous?
>>47693783
The whole "redeemed succubus" meme is pretty close, and equally as retarded.
>>47693783
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81RVf3xeJ0
This shit right here.
>>47693874
He is a very civil anti-paladin isnt he?
>>47693783
If you kill all the orcs, their children will have enough time to escape. They will be raised outside of orc culture thus not be inherently evil. You have spared the innocent.
If you kill the orc children, their parents will escape. They will seek justice for their lost children and join with the forces of good. You have empowered the cause of good.
If you don't kill any of the orc, you are being merciful.
You don't have time to kill them all.
>>47693827
I thought so.
They usually end up as a thread about the nature of angels,devils and demons, though.
I was looking for something as an evil conundrum thread.
Something like >>47693934 but also with a reason to fight the orcs at all, since they are inherently evil and not, say, an Aasimar village.
>>47693783
>Anti-Paladin falls analogous
He simply saw that being a dick is stupid and decides to do good instead.
>>47694493
>>47694516
Because he was getting high on generosity?
Personally, while I am sure this isn't RAW, I don't think an anti-paladin falls the same way a paladin does. A good act, even a series of good acts, don't cause the anti to lose his powers.
Instead, if he starts consistently acting good, his powers start to fail him right when he needs them most during his work for good. He'll ALWAYS be able to use them when doing evil, and, if he has an evil god or a demon has taken note of him, they will make him offers of what he has to do to use his powers to do the good thing he wants to do.
These will be small, at first, but the more he strays, the larger they will be. If possible, these acts will always (at first indirectly and then directly) slowly lead to the destruction /corruption of the things that motivated him to do good in the first place.
To truly fall, an anti-paladin must willingly renounce his powers, and continue to do good without them, not falling to the temptation of his old ways for an easy way out.
Some of these can't do it, and do fall back to their old ways. Still others can't keep up the fight and retire to try to find a peaceful life. Others fall in battle as martyrs sticking to their convictions even in the face of certain death.
Still, some, through skill and strength of conviction, manage to prove their worthiness and dedication to the forces of good, and they are the group (along with some of the risen martyrs) who become paladins.
>>47694493
>>47694516
https://youtu.be/UhDtFnpNOfE?t=1m24s
>>47693934
>If you kill the orc children, their parents will escape. They will seek justice for their lost children and join with the forces of good. You have empowered the cause of good.
Why would they join the forces of good? Evil can fight evil without aligning with good. It happens all the time.
>>47694930
I never understood why this flies over so many people's heads.
D&D alignments are pretty dumb, but nowhere does it ever say or even fucking imply fighting Evil automatically makes you Good. Or requires you to be Good.
Anyone who sincerely makes that leap of logic isn't paying very much attention.
>>47694878
That is neutral at best, he had the right to beat his own son.
Also >>47694959
>>47695057
>tfw I got two (You)'s.
I'll defend Vader's actions as Good. Throwing Sheev down a well isn't automatically Good, but sacrificing yourself to save your son is a Good act by all standards of how the Alignment is typically defined.
>>47695106
Fair is fair.
I was looking for an unwilling fall, though, as per the Paladin Falls meme.
>>47695146
The thing with the Paladin Falls meme is it's not really a fall. It's the GM forcing a player to change his alignment through fiat.
An "Anti-Paladin Rises" scenario would be a typical Anti Paladin/Blackguard doing some act of cartoon villainy then finding out he actually did a good thing for someone else and society in general. So you elevate him to Lawful Good and take away his evil powers.
>>47695209
That I would like. My player wants to be edgy, so I want some inspiration on how to reverse simple evil deeds as casual murdering of children and rape.
Every child turns out to be an evil kobold in disguise and every rape victim turns out to love it.
>>47695209
>>47695252
>>47695106
>but sacrificing yourself to save your son is a Good act by all standards of how the Alignment is typically defined.
Actually it's Neutral. Sacrificing yourself for friends and family is Neutral, since even animals will do that on pure instinct alone (and pure instinct alone is Neutral by definition). Just because you slap some sapient thought behind that instinct, it doesn't become Good.
Sacrificing yourself for someone you've never even met until that moment? That's Good.
![1334628464173[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9TxF9mo.jpg "1334628464173[1].jpg")
>>47693783
>Playing evil campaign
>Be blackguard
>Aevil von Dümstein, Harbinger of Death, Destroyer or Life
>Burn orphanages for fun
>One little boy survives
>Decided to adopt him, raise him like my own son and turn him into a champion of evil
>DM decides that showing mercy to a child is a good action, making me Lawful Neutral
>I ascend and lose my Blackguard power
How come you never hear about this from Clerics or classes that rely only Divine support. You'd think they all fall under the same spectrum. What is it about Paladins that makes them such easy fall targets.
>>47696099
Because they have a much more flexible code of conduct, despite deriving much more power from their oaths/loyalties than paladin.
Assuming 3.5e rules, which appear to be the rules in question when most people talk about paladin, a paladin must ALWAYS be LG (unless using shitty variants). Meanwhile, the cleric of an LG god can deviate one step in either direction. He can be Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good with ZERO penalties. And even if he falls, restoring power is as easy as finding a new god. And there's loads of them, each more than willing to gain a new cleric to serve them.
Clerics are far less likely to "fall", and even the ones that have "fallen" have way more options available that effectively trivialize their "fall". A paladin has to either atone, go full edge and become a blackguard or go through life as a fighter who doesn't even get bonus feats.
>>47696193
Sure makes sense. Just seems weird that only Lawful good gods can give people paladin powers, but whatever. That's just semantics on what a paladin is and holdover from older additions. On the other hand, just what is it that makes DM's want paladins to fall? Are their just a bunch of assholes out their that don't want their players to have fun? If that's the case why not just tell your players no paladins?
>>47696283
>On the other hand, just what is it that makes DM's want paladins to fall?
I can't claim to represent the entire D&D community by a longshot so I'm just guessing here.
There are assholes, but not all DMs who try to make paladin fall are assholes. The rules, which not only place alignment restrictions on paladin but further arbitrary restrictions on top of that (always act honorable even if subterfuge is preferable, always refuse to associate with the evil even in an alliance of convenience etc.), make it very easy to fall. On top of that, the falling and atonement mechanic almost encourages DMs to make the paladin fall. It can make for an interesting story of redemption but mechanics-wise it makes an already weak class on par with the warrior... an NPC class.
The rules in 3.5e have shafted the paladin hard. If they had a code and falling mechanics comparable to that of a cleric they'd be treated much fairer, but that would blur the already blurry lines between paladin and cleric even further.
>>47696283
>Just seems weird that only Lawful good gods can give people paladin powers, but whatever
In 3.5 they get their powers from law and goodness itself, not a god.
The only exception is FR, which just happens to be the most popular setting. But the core rules say it doesn't come from a diety
>>47696940
Oh thats kinda neat I guess. Very Platonic.
>>47695263
Have all the rape victims be spirits bound to the flesh which can only be freed by an act of 'love' and have it happen the instant he makes physical, sexual contact to also take away his magical realm
>>47693783
>Is there also an Anti-Paladin falls analogous?
You mean like, the dark knight rises?
>>47695946
The emperor is neutral confirmed?
>>47693783
here's a classic example OP
>>47699838
Though he wasn't evil. Just didn't know where his true loyalties were.
>>47699838
Zuko went from angsty LN to CG to LG. He never stopped by any Anti-Paladin alignment.
>>47694516
Reasons can be multiple.
He may have never been completely evil for example, yet circumstances caused him to be stuck with bosses that are monstrous dicks.
He may have turned evil due to too much dickishness happening to him and showing the middle finger to good, only to have a certain event spark back the heroism and goodness he buried one quintillion light-years underground.
You just need to come up with a good one.
>>47694493
That's not falling. That's redeeming.
A fallen Anti-Paladin would be more like one who just straight up fucked up being evil.
He had to make a choice between murdering a priest, and burning down an orphanage, and was screwed either way.
Does anyone renember the history of the dread knight cursed with being good?
It was something like
>Dread Knight burns down a orphanage
>Thanks Knight all those orphans where hellspawns
>CURSES!
>>47701314
If I remember correctly, it was Sir Tourettes, an evil man cursed to do good as he swore helplessly.
>>47695946
Your DM sounds like an asshat.
>>47700382
This. He was never an anti Paladin. Just a guy who spent most if the show acting like an asshole because he thought it was the only way he could get what he wanted.
IIRC he was actually quite the soft-hearted kid before all that shit with his dad.
>>47701502
Thanks
Part of me really wants to write a short story about how an anti-paladin picks up the lone survivor of a town he destroys to mistreat and keep as a servant.
Makes them drag his shield around, tosses them scraps on the ground for food, basically just treats them like shit.
Eventually the anti-paladin is fighting a paladin, getting the shit kicked out of him and when he's about to die, it's the kid that steps between the two, demanding the paladin leave.
The paladin ask why, the kid says that the anti paladin fed them, took them away from the horrid town they were in, and didn't kill them.
Paladin bitch slaps the kid out of the way to finish off the anti-paladin.
Anti-paladin falls/rises, killing the paladin.
>>47701857
That's incredibly fucking stupid.
>>47701857
>>47701900
>>47701857
Follow your dreams Anon.
Write it up.
>>47693827
the worst part about the "redeemed succubus" stuff is that it's a succubus; as in the one everyone wants to fuck. There's no actual thought put in, it's just a couple of bonerposting shits spamming a waifu.
