>>47665024
First for Skorne, fuck the nay sayers, MkII shall be glorious for the Empire

Strakhov +28
-War Dog -3
-Torch -18
-Kodiak -13
Malakov -4
-Conquest -37
Assault Kommandos -16
-Flamethrowers x3 -6
Mechaniks (min) + UA -6

thinking about switching the AKs for Black Dragons and Conquest for Victor. this list just feels very paltry...

New 75 points feels so restrictive
Lot of casters cannot get their full potential

>>47665364

I believe it will be moved to 100pts within the year.

>>47665379
I heard PP wants to push 75 as the standard size

>>47665399

35 was the standard size of mk2 and people realized it didn't work for competitive play.

>>47665435
We will see
Most current 50 lists fit into new 75 fine
depending on faction of course

Yet again i request help with Menite character jacks. Worth picking or not?

>>47665595
All of them are really good now except for Blessing of Vengeance who is only useful with either Severius.

>>47665379
100 + 30 WJP is a LOT.

Just bought Scaverous, Nightmare and Commodore Cannon. I can't wait to use Commodore in Cryx with Skarre.

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>>47665379
>>47665364

>I can't deal with 50, the game should be 75!
>I can't deal with 75, the game should be 100!(+28)

>>47665453


No not really...

The game is actually 37.5pts with on average 15 free jack points. Some stuff got more expensive some stuff got slightly cheaper.

>>47665816

Who wanted the game to be 75? PP pushed that idea and it failed miserably.

>>47665708

Maybe 85? The game is too small right now and there are still plenty of casters which are forced into taking warjacks which they never wanted in the first place. Sorscha1 has never ever wanted a warjack, but they keep pushing the concept on her. She is handicapped in the new system. There are plenty of casters that are like her in every faction. Then there are the casters who rely on a number of support elements to make up for their lack of ability to answer questions the opponent might bring to the table, they are effectively down points as well. We're going to end up with another pool of go to casters.

Why we are forced into taking warbeast and warjack is beyond me, maybe PP can't figure out how to make jacks worth playing on their own with out overshadowing everything else. It's just bad game design. It's affirmative action for robots.

>>47666012
Kek.

I think if they kept the warjack points lower and kept literally every other change for Mk3 people would naturally play Warjacks since they run themselves and are so cost effective now.

This is a bit ham-fisted.

>>47666012


t. Def 17 infantry is good for the game guy

>>47666114
I don't exactly think so. I think we would have seen an inevitable fall of warjacks regardless.

Remember many Warjacks/ units are now good only because they know with 100% certainty that they will be meeting many other Warjacks on the opponents side.

Theoretically, every Warcaster should be a jack caster in some format because thats literally what Warcasters are about!

Again calling it: Trample rules are unchanged or even nerfed because PP has no clue.

>>47666178
Only reason I said people would take jacks is that infantry, on the whole, has been lowered slightly. Lower ARM, lower DEF, less reach, less weaponmaster, etc etc. Though, even with the changed points, if WJ points were set to something equivalent to MkII, like 8-14 or so, you'd probably still see blobs of dudes.

>>47665898
Idk, my new scaverous list actually allows for 2 more points than in mk2.

100+ wjp is a big ass army

MK3 LEAK WHEN

>>47665318
Strakhov prefers Conquest over the Victor because of the emphasis on melee engagements. I want to love the AKs but they always end up so lackluster

>>47666264
Don't forget better AoEs.
Behemoth alone drops two fully boosted AoE 4s each turn for only 1 allocated focus

Weapon crews also got buffed

>>47666264
Did anything loose weaponmaster besides bane knights, great bears and satyxis raiders (under power swell)?

>>47665620
Well i want to proxxy it for devout if needed. And i would only pick it for Sevvy of course.
Thanks for the answer, thought.

Oh yes and what about Guardian? Any good?

>>47666178
Warjacks are far and away the best options for holding zones, with infantry getting so much easier to kill and jacks getting generally harder.

As far as points cost go, I think the new lower cost will be fine, so long as skews don't rear their head. Warjack skews aren't nearly as easy as people think(and I say that as running non-colossal syntherion) and other skews seem much harder to put on the table.

>>47666425
Mechanithralls didn't have weapon master but they can't consistently wreck jacks anymore

>>47666425
It's not as much about losing weapon master as it is losing the ability to reliably deliver weapon master

>>47666425
Mostly what >>47666513 said. By making stuff more vulnerable to AoE's and other tech to sweep infantry out (less tough for example) then I think we're approaching an overall healthier game state if we removed the massively high warjack points. But, as it stands, Mk3 should still be fine. I for one look foward to it.

>>47666012
>Sorscha1 has never ever wanted a warjack, but they keep pushing the concept on her. She is handicapped in the new system.
Yeah, how terrible that she either gets (1) a free nasty shield guard, or two less nasty ones; (2) a 1-focus commitment for 2 double-boosted long-range AOE 4s; (3) 2.5 POW 19s that she can make charge for free etc etc etc

and doing so doesn't impede her taking Sorschas 18 either. she clearly gives something to jacks. she speeds them up and helps them hit. those are both great.

>>47666357
Yeah, I'm thinking about Occultating them. They have even better range and attacks with Oleg, but +4" on feat turn when they should already be generally ahead of him and only have 0.5" melee, that's not super helpful (certainly helps jacks more, and reach infantry, but the 12" CTRL holds it back the most). Mostly they would make for better assault shots. His feat is definitely designed to get the alpha.

>>47665024
I am actually glad about B13 as someone getting into Cygnar. They were a unit that just did too much for their cost. I'm glad to see that the Captains are really useful now in some situations.

>>47666487
MAT 9 POW 20 on the charge with battle isn't bad, but you are certainly paying for that arc node, which is useless while engaged, so.

>>47666012
She's not handicapped at all. Sorcha didn't like jacks because she doesn't lie sharing focus. New jacks need less focus, and the AOEs help her ranged feat, while delivering a jack to melee also benefits from her feat.

>>47666392
Everybody was taking Behemoth Regardless beforehand. And for once I want to take a destroyer. In my mind the best designed classic warjack, and the one that got me in the game.

I think we are seeing an issue with mid-cost jacks.

High end jacks/ beasts (20+) have something unique and are worthwhile taking
Low End Jacks (14-) are very cheap and effective.

Its the 15-19 area that has the most "Eh?" Warjacks. Usually the ones with 1 weapon and a Gun.

Why does legion feel so eh?

I was anticipating and okay with our power casters being nerfed.

It just feels we no longer have any really good casters anymore.

>>47666012

>Why we are forced into taking warbeast and warjack is beyond me

Likely because it is the aim of the game to have one of either in your force.

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>>47666642
Had been unpainted since 2003. Finally!

>>47666691
Legion was on the top end of exactly what MK3 was aiming to tone down, so it feels like in general tactics, rather than specific models, they lost the most.

>>47666691
Hordes didn't really gain anything exciting like Power Up does for Warmachine.

>>47666691

legion has turned from the alphstrike faction to the mistake punisher faction.

you put your heavy in 11 inches of my hellmouth? gone. commit a heavy to kill my cheap seraph? here's a carnivean with a shredder to clean up.

we aren't worse we are just different

>>47666796
Having the battlegroup killed is not as crippling as before. You still don't want it to happen tough

>>47666691
some really good legion casters include:

-Vayl1 (don't believe what people say about the feat move, it is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL)
-Thags1 (because the BB list remains)
-Abby2 (because Alpha Hunter triggered at range)
-Lyyth3 (28" assassination...)
-Lylyth2 (snipe on a stick and all the guns shooting again)
-Lylyth1 (snipe on a stick, Parasite)

>>47666796
Maybe it was because Jacks where (And still are) worse then beasts, on top of hordes receiving more beast support then Warmachine Has Jack Support.

If the seesaw is unbalanced, you don't take 10 pounds off, and then put 10 pounds back on again.

>>47666796
Spirit Bond is a pretty big deal.

Having to deal with frenzies is something I don't think hordes players are excited about though

>>47666763
I guess that makes sense. I know we were on the stronger side. It just feels like any positive changes were on the minute side.

>>47666796
>>47666800
My big problem I guess is I got into Legion because I wanted it to be in the alpha strike faction. I wanted to hit hard and fast, I dn't mind if my units were a little glass jawed. but now it feels like well, we aren't the ones making the first strike.

>>47666800
and yet we still get the alpha decently. just with different beasts than we used to. and it's less of a gimme. And the order of activation is more important: do I want the buffed Neraph to start things and not Sprint, or end them, but if he ends them, the Shredder won't be flanking, etc...

>>47666861
Legion is still the fastest faction in the game. Circle is the faction who lost a shitload of alpha ability

>>47666012

Sorscha1 +29
-Sylys -4
-Juggernaut -12
-Ruin -17
Malakov -4
-Behemoth -24
Eiryss2 -6
Harlan Versh -4
Alten Ashley -5
Kell Bailoch -5
Organ Bokur -5
Aiyana & Holt -8
Widowmaker Marksman -4
Widowmakers -5

Just a preliminary Sorsha's 18 here. Thoughts? Anything that needs to go in? I know A&H is only benefiting like 5 models, and am considering dropping them for that reason. I don't think this list needs them with Valachev, but tell me i'm wrong.

>>47666860
as a legion player we definitely had it too easy with fury management and all the people griping about that probably always overloaded fury management til it was a non issue.

>>47666861
Legion can absolutely get the alpha. it just won't be scytheans doing it. this isn't that hard.

>>47666906
what happened with circle? they never had much in my meta so i only know what they really do from podcasts and the internet

>>47666959
Lost a ton of range on teleport, lost Sprint on stuff like Ghet, lost some other movement stuff they had.

At first glance, for example, Krueger seems like he lost nothing and got upkeep removal, but that no charging friendly models bit is fucking huge for his feat.

>>47667028
to be clear the only thing i really knew was Lightning Strike became SELF. aside from that...I've played vs circle twice, and those were BB-level games (which Thags1 won handily I'll add. Twisted Form is an ever better Bad Blood now)

>>47666942

It's still a non issue for Legion.

We got slower, no real stat adjustments for the loss of targeted SG or Tenacity, our good infantry got worse while our shitty ones got slightly cheaper, and our power casters got brought down a few pegs, but I can still shit a fuck load of fury and have Shepard team or a Forsaken mop it up for it becomes an issue.

>>47665620
>implying shield guard, arc node and defensive strike isn't gold for p/e reznik or e/3 kreoss

>>47666313

Interdasting. Every list I've made is smaller.

Could I get some opnions on the ranking of Menoth casters in Mk III?

It seems like pSevvy is god tier now that Eye of Menoth is just an always on bonus, not even a spell so it can't be dispelled.

>>47667249
eSevvy is god tier.

Couple 75pt lists here:

Nemo 3 (+25)
Dynamo 18 pts
Gallant 17 pts
Thunderhead 20 pts
Lancer 10 pts
Stormblades + UA + 1 Storm Gunner 17 pts
Stormblade Captain 5 pts

Journeyman Warcaster 4 pts
Charger 9 pts

-----

Kara Sloan (+28)
Triumph 20 pts
2x Hunter 22 pts
2x Minutemen 18 pts
Gallant 17
Rangers 9
Full Sword Knights 13
Runewood 4

I'm kinda feeling irritated with the dumbing down of animi- 90% are self now, and even those have received a pretty significant nerf overall.

>>47666568
>a free nasty shield guard, or two less nasty guns

I don't ever see my self playing beast with her, there are better options for her assassination game. I didn't play her with shield guards, I didn't need them for my def 20+ caster.

>1-focus commitment for 2 double-boosted long-range AOE 4s;

It's actually 2 focus, but yes big b is probably the best route for her if not the spriggan for removing stealth. This isn't some new synergy or interaction which any long time khador player isn't already aware of.

>2.5 POW 19s that she can make charge for free etc etc etc

I'm going to need you to explain. I'm not sure what your refreshing or how it just charges forbfree. Are you referring to boundless charge that costs 2? If she is casting boundless charge she isn't casting freezing grip because she won't be able to afford the other spell she needs to back up.

>>47666672

They don't focus to get there, but I assure you khador jacks need more than one focus to actually do something.

can someone give me a link to the leaked faction decks?

am I the only one who is going to be taking Wish Nailer with eMagnus in every list I can?

Dat reliable calamity

>>47667587
You don't do that now?

>>47666908
I like that you are running Big B with Andy, I have been thinking of that for some time now. I had also considered using the ternion cav in this list because of how jack heavy it's become and the need for infantry removal becomes greater. Atleast that's what I am led to believe with out testing it.

Sorscha's personal jacks I'm not so sold on. How about torch or a spriggan for stealth removal? I've always wanted to run a grolar with her, but I have yet to do it.

I don't like aiyanna and holt unless you are having problems with needing magic weapons, the loss of kiss really sucks.

If you keep ruin, I'd drop eiryss2 for eiryss 1. If you you can strip all the focus or fury on tour feat turn it's all ogre.

>>47667117
Everyone's defensive tech got worse, not just Legion. Just like everyone's offensive tech got worse.

>>47666857
Meh, high-end heavy jacks are now generally in line with high-end heavy beasts.

It's just that cheap heavy jacks are *much* better than cheap heavy beasts right now.

>>47667377
It's to make Fury actually matter. Animi got simplier so that management got harder.

Also, it means that any new shit they get doesn't have to be balanced around a shitload of animi.

>>47666856
>-Thags1 (because the BB list remains)

This.

pThags/BB/spears basically lost Thags feating back a dead Blightbringer, which we (and I played the shit out of that list) can all agree was bullshit.

Spears picked up tough in exchange for losing 3 boxes. Kinda a wash. Otherwise the list is pretty much the same.

>>47667622


I only play eMags in bad seeds

>>47667735

I never needed to feat the BB back anyway

your carnivean was your target

>>47667391
Big B is a 1-focus commitment. 1 free from Power Up, 1 allocated = both initial shots are double boosted

this is with Juggies, and charging for free is referencing your free focus from Power Up, which I admit - you almost always want more focus on it, and sure therein is the rub.

>>47667712


Well, more that the good cheap heavy jacks are dramatically more killy than cheap heavy beasts

Compare the nomad to any of the satyrs

>>47667719
Isn't it the opposite?
The SELFing means that almost all animi are incredibly situational, and that you no longer have to manage fury across beasts that're buffing other things.

>>47667779
and typically didn't bring a Carn in the double spears list. feat was largely wasted frankly.

Thags1 +28
-Blightbringer -38
-Carnivean -19
Warmonger War Chief -6
Warspears + UA -20
Warspears + UA -20

Or swap the Carn for Raptors. or the Warchief for 2 spell martyrs and a succubus.

>>47666959
Circle is mostly unscathed. Off the top of my head:

- Druids got changed -- lost camouflage, pull and crit knockdown on their bolts, gained prowl and a 3" aoe knockdown (on hit, not on crit) spell and got cheaper.
- Shifting Stones now teleport completely within 8" instead of within 8"
- Satyrs are all weaker and cheaper
- Lightning Strike (Sprint) is RNG SELF and COST 1
- Ghetorix lost Unyielding, Ornery as an animus and warp hyper-aggressive for Spiny Growth as an animus, warp murderous, and Overtake when taken with Kromac. This is a lateral shift under most casters and a big upgrade under Kromie.
- Feral got Primal for an animus
- pMorv picked up dispel hate.
- eMorv got purification knocked down to weaker aoe spell hate, can't feat back solos, and her rerolls lost 4" of range.
- eKrueger was only really nerfed by the change to charges (i.e., his feat no longer stops them), but picked up rebuke and lightning immunity to FF in his command range (or as I call the ability, "lol, you brought Cygnar")
- Woldwatchers lost shield guard, which kinda means losing their reason to exist
- Wold Guardians picked up shield guard, which makes them pretty decent
- Woldwyrds are actually playable
- Reeves are playable. POW 8 sucks, but ROF 2 with CRA means two POW 21 shots per turn, as their UA is now *good*.
- Bradigus kinda sucks now.
- Cassius got demoted to solo, the tree is now the caster, and probably pretty good.
- Grayle seems playable
- Rotterhorns lost acceleration (and, mostly, their reason to exist)
- Blackclads lost their elemental immunities but picked up prowl. I think this is a net gain.
- Argii got "Living/undead models within 2" are base DEF 5" as an animus. Bonkers good.
- Brennos got completely overhauled but still sucks.
- The Woldwrath is *good*. Traded Spell Ward for Sacred Ward and its gun is now AOE 5 POW 15 and the aoe sticks around and zots anyone who enters.
- Sentry stones are playable.

>>47667800
the draw is basically that the nomad then needs caster focus, while the satyr doesn't

i'm not saying that's sufficient, but it's the logic. and hordes has always been able to go death blossom if it means the subsequent frenzies don't really matter. that's classic Abby2 strategy - run everything super hot, kill a ton, hope some of it gets killed the next turn, because who cares

Can we get a journeyman's league discussion going? a lot are starting for MKIII. What faction do you plan to take and whats your growth ideas?

>>47667992
Play Khador, win, that's all you need to do

>>47667958

2 martyrs and a succubus is my usual list

I've been thinking about only doing one unit though.

I'll have to play it out though

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I hope you guys are ready for your new spam overlords.

Butcher1
Rager x2
Bererker x 4
Mad Dog x 7

>>47667981


Actually that's exactly what I imagined with the new rip horns, just primal their shit up and send out 3 of them to delete stuff worth more than them while you keep your feral and/or stalker back for the second wave

Circles really good at it and primal essentially necessitates it

>>47667922
No, because you can't have casters or other models putting animi out on beasts as much now, which makes the sting of harder fury management that much worse

>>47668052
That list is going to be terrible.

>>47668049
i'm thinking about switching a spear unit for swordsmen. you can at least get them to 16/15 before terrain

>>47667966
(cont)

- Ravagers are ungodly infantry hate (RNG 2 melee + Heart Eater (which now works on undead) + Overtake on minifeat), but lost AD and Powerful/Brutal Charge. This is, honestly, the Circle change I'm most upset about.
- Skinwalkers kept 8 boxes and now regenerate d3 per turn, but traded rapid strike for gang and lost pathfinder. They got a casting hate minifeat that may be useful.
- Tharn Ravager Shaman got converted to a solo, has chain lightning, an aoe tharn-only knockdown immunity power, and can make an entire model's weapons magical.
- Wilder upkeeps spells for free, and only removes 1 fury, but does it to all beasts within 3".
- Bark node got a big mobility hit (within 5" -> completely within 5" on its place), but extended the tough hate to 5" from 3"
- Fulcrum got extra range and may be able to be teleported by stones.

And that's about it. Stones going to completely within 8" and Lightning Strike going to SELF are the biggest changes. Considering how powerful Circle has been, they got off pretty easy imo (compared to Cryx and Legion, which I think are the only more powerful Mk2 factions, and Circle got a lot less attention from the nerf bat than them).

I don't like Ravagers losing Brutal Charge as it nerfed our best armor-cracking in infantry, and the new satyrs mostly seem a waste (cheap heavy jacks look good, cheap heavy beasts look crap in general), but otherwise... eh, it's ok. Circle seems to be in a good spot for Mk3.

>>47668063
Thing is, they're SPD5 1" reach no pathfinder. They've got pathetic threat, and they're cheap in the context of Circle but they sure as shit aren't cheap enough to piece-trade with budget heavy warjacks.

>>47668065
You've lost me.
If I can't use the animi, why would I need more fury management? I'm using less fury.

>>47667779
>>47667958

I typically took a Ravagore instead of the Carni, added a Shredder, and played in theme. Rarely had to feat back Blighty, but the feat being there had a protective effect on it. Without the theme and being unable to feat the BB back, I'll probably put in an Angelius or a Scythean; something I can move up aggressively and get some work out of then feat back. I liked the Ravagore in the Mk2 list, but in Mk3, I think a melee beast will work better.

>>47668117
Krueger not being able to charge > TK > feat is pretty big for him, I think. No more top of two feat to clear a zone and set up alphas with impunity, and no more Druids to yank a heavy close enough to murder to trade up super early.

>>47668113

I was thinking raptors + anyssa

but I think i'm going to pair him with lylyth1 for a bit so idk where i'd put them

>>47668189
the carn should probably be it, considering you can make your vanguard unit immune to fire. which is fun to just shoot one with the BB to un-jam, for no effect except putting the aura on them.

>>47668169
Because the models themselves want to benefit from the animi. No more casting Sprint on your Stalker before it goes in, no more putting Far Strike up on a beast using your caster, etc, etc.

Most beasts with ranged animi rarely cast it themselves.

>>47668065

Exactly.

>>47668169

As the anon above said, what makes it trickier is that you can no longer offload the fury cost of the animus to another model. I ran 1-2 Stalkers in every Circle list, and I think in two years of playing Circle I had a Stalker cast its animus on itself once. Every other time it was the Wilder, caster, or the other Stalker casting it on the one that was actually going in, so it would have its full allotment of fury to use to kill shit.

Now it's cheaper, but you can't offload the fury capacity to another model.

>>47668052
>>47668146

The scary jackspam list is Amon with 8 crusaders. Synergy, +2 SPD, Pathfinder, Parry across the board, with two Enlivens to keep them safe.

Did any model retain/gained bushwhack?

>>47668146


>>47668146


Circle didn't guarantee its alphas by being speed 6 with reach, it did it by having weird out of activation movement and occasionally making terrain (which is phenomenal in mk3 since nothing except Hunter and Phantom Hunter ignores them now)

Mohsar for example will be pretty solid at satyr spam as will Cassius and pBaldur if he really felt like it. Is it necessarily going to be meta? I doubt it. Is it possible and maybe playable? Could be.

>>47668202
Yeah, to a point. Everything he lost was something that got changed game-wide, though, so I'm not sure how much he's nerfed as opposed to how the game itself has changed. I think he's now clearly our top caster, and so far I'd put eKromac in second place.

>>47668202


Wold wrath plus Druids fishing for knock downs is legitimately not shit.

One shake is nothing, 3 shakes is turn changing

>>47668336
Mohsar? R-really? I have wanted to play him so long, he's just so bad....

>>47666676
Imo the Destroyer isn't all that bad. AOE4 puts in a pretty nice place for 16 points, and with MAT 7 and the change to it's Crit it's no slouch in melee, especially with a caster who can drop Fury on it.

>>47668403
Don't get your hopes up, he's arguably worse than he was.

>>47668435
Yeah, Circle Sevvy is nowhere close to the Pope.

H-Here I go!

>Lord Arbiter Hexeris (102)
Titan Gladiator 14
Titan Cannoneer 17
Cyclops Savage 8
Agonizer 7
Razor Wurm 7

Max Incindiarii 18
Max Nihilators 15
Max Handlers 7

Aptimus Marketh 6
Extoller Soulward 3

>Void Seer Mordikaar (104)
Despoiler 18
Titan Sentry 15
Cyclops Raider 8
Cyclops Brute 8

Max Nihilators 15
Max Handlers 7
Max Cetrati 20
UA Tyrant Vorkesh 6

Extoller Soulward 3
Orin Midwinter 4

So I use the Hexeris2 list unless my opponent is playing a faction resistant to fire effects (Menoth/Trolls). I think the Sentry is a better beatstick than the Gladiator right now, but the granularity between 14/15 points sometimes means cutting to a Gladiator to squeeze in a relevant solo.

>>47668435
The pillar change hurts

>>47668397
Druids don't fish for knockdowns anymore. They have a straight up knockdown spell. The Woldwrath just makes it much easier to hit with.

>>47668427
I keep having trouble finding something to put the destroyer on.

Been thinking - marshaled to MOW Kovnik, and then the Artillery Kapitan gives him +2 first before he assaults? still can't boost tho :\

>>47668339
I just feel like he can't ensure himself an easy three points super early then just focus on those last two, all while protecting the shit out of himself and his army.

He still does great things defensively, he just doesn't do them so fast

>>47668403
>>47668435

Well, he does have a feat against Warmachine now. Perhaps not a very good one, but not such a complete joke as Mk2 Disjunction.

Sure it hurts that pillars can be charged, though.

>>47668508
Specifically:

PULSE OF THE EARTH (*ATTACK) – Pulse of the Earth is a RNG 8 magic attack that causes no damage. If the attack misses, nothing happens. On a direct hit against an enemy model, center a 3˝ AOE on the model hit. Models in the AOE are hit and become knocked down.

Right now I'm thinking pMorv is our dark horse caster, as she plays really well with both the Woldwrath and Druids, who play well with each other.

Kinda looking at an eKromac/pMorv pairing, both running the Woldwrath, with eKromac leaning towards armor cracking, and pMorv being more balanced, adding heavy beasts to her built-in infantry hate.

>>47668577
You can still cage people at least, but they can have back-liners charge it. Though if it can eat up something's activation that's pretty decent.

>>47668540
I think it's more of a case that he's not a Mk2 S-tier caster anymore, but I'm not sure there are any casters of that power level remaining. He may be a Mk3 S-tier caster, though.

>>47668627
Is there anyone other than Butcher3 who was top-tier in Mk2 that was largely unchanged?

>>47668789
Kromac1 & 2 haven't changed much.
They arguably got better with the Argus buff

>>47668789

vayl 2

>>47668515
I was considering him with Irusk2 for FFE Destroyer + Behemoth for a zillion fully boosted AOEs.

Ended up trying out the Fun Carriage instead though - that thing is baller. POW 16 puts the pain on Warjacks, and 2x 4" Rough Terrain AOES + Artifice of Deviation is kinda amazing.

>>47668806


>arguably got better

They have butcher tier assassinations now. Less damage but guaranteed auto hit on anything but snake eyes.

>>47668913
Yeah, it's countered by the nerfs to Stones, Druids and the Stalker's animus.

They're still great though.

>>47668789
Not sure I'd call Butcher3 S-tier. He's very good and has crazy assassination potential, but he's a lot easier to counter than, say, pre-nerf Haley2.

Where can I download the Mk3 cards?

How's Xerxis2 in Mk3?

>>47669225
Still riding that rhino he got on public healthcare. Benefits these days are out of control.

With Terminal Velocity gone, should Mortenebra invest in ranged jacks now?

>>47668817
She can still do her bs spell assasinate but it lost 2 pow and gained an extra attack that she can't afford to boost so it won't have as high as success rate as it currently does. Plus loosing refuge was a big hit.

>>47669255
Didn't Venethrax get Terminal Velocity? Why would they take jack spells away from the jack caster?

>>47669444

To make a new jack caster?

Just a question for people more familiar with Legion. Did they do anything to make Bethayne better? I liked her concept but she looked so garbage in Mk2.

>>47669427
And she lost her theme list, which was a big part of her power.

>>47669490

her feat is pretty cool gives all of her warriors flank (warbeast)

and she has an interesting spell that either has her advance straigh towards belfagore or buffs her if shes fused

>>47669444
She has Sacrificial Lamb now, so her battlegroup has 2 focus each turn. That's enough for boosting hit and damage. I was thinking of taking Nightwretches with her, and maybe Leviathans so she and Derylis can stand behind them and fix them. Of course a Kraken would be ideal, but I don't wanna buy one when there are still metal models I don't have that could be converted to resin at any moment.

>>47669444
Someone needs to repost those comics

>>47669225
Mobility is cost 3 now, he kept ignite and his nuke was changed to a nifty aoe 3 that causes stationary on warrior models hit.

Despoiler kept black arts and now has dark shroud base. So I'd probably play him with despoiler a lot, because up keeping ignite and casting mobility leaves him on one transfer.

Krea was changed to force barrier, mobility and spiny growth leaves you on no transfers.

The sentry, and Tiberion picked up shield guard and a lot of cool stuff like steady.

X2 also picked up sprint and kept knockdown on the mount etc. He's still good, but a little different

>>47669871
He also picked up trample, and I feel like huge base trampling has changed

>>47668627
I'd say the Haleys really. Some things got toned back, most notably TB and Revive. Did haley2 change at all though? aside from the change to bonds

>>47668817
you're totally wrong. vayl2 isn't awful but she is nowhere near as good as she was.

>>47669536
eh, vayl2 was great even out of theme. it's the spell list changes that hurt the most honestly.

>>47669490
Beth is very different. You no longer build with magic for her feat, or bring minions for her spells. Now she wants a blend of beasts and infantry. Swordsmen and Shredders will be great with her for all the flank stacking. Swordsmen go to +5d6 on feat turn and Beth herself has a -2 ARM debuff, which is amazing.

>>47669997

my bad I misread you're right vayl 2 was changed a lot

>>47669935
They gave it to the animantarax as well.

>>47668339

What are you thinking for an eKromac list? I'm thinking about buying in on Circle as a second faction and figured Mk 3 would be a good shot.

One caveat: I'm going to play Brennos with him, good or bad. Outside of that, I'm all ears.

>>47669490
She's very different. Her feat is now FF warriors get Flank: FF warbeast, and the only spells she kept were Ashen Veil and Blood Thorn. Picked up Venom (bleh), a self-only +2 SPD/STR/DEF/ARM buff (while melded), and a a *non-upkeep* ARM debuff.

Melded and near a Blightbringer with a Carni in battlegroup for Spiny Growth she can hit ARM 24, which is pretty beastly with transfers.

>>47668089
Ok anon, how do you beat it? Free focus, tons of damage output and piles of boxes. Assuming you ever chew through all of the jacks you still have to deal with the freaking Butcher

>>47669997
Haley2's spell list is weaker. I'm tempted to say Denny1 and Haley3 are the most powerful casters out there right now, the ones I'd say were clearly S-tier in Mk2 (Denny1, Gaspy2, Skarre1, Harby, Haley2, Morv2, Krueger2, Bradigus, Vayl2) all got nerfed either directly or indirectly, so S-tier in Mk3 is weaker across the board.

>>47670016
now if you mean Vayl1...I would agree. losing rampager is a loss but really it just means she can camp more haha. feat change is really fine, she can easily get to DEF 19, more with terrain, and has easy access to cloud blocking

>>47669935
Also Sprint.

>>47670089
I *really* like two pieces with him:

Ghetorix: Kromac gives him Overtake as a passive. He can warp for murderous (extra die on attack rolls vs. warriors), and waltz through infantry, and even pick up some lost threat range from teleporting. And Spiny Growth on Kromac himself isn't a bad thing.

Woldwrath: Makes Primal Shock a COST 2 POW 16 spell that's automatically boosted to hit because of the Woldwrath's animus. And then it going to ARM 22 under feat is nice, and then you drop Vengeance on it so it gets a chance to knockdown anything that attacks it.

Beyond that, a lot is good. He supports beasts better than infantry, though.

>>47670092
i'm dojoing beth right now and a BB + Carni is way too many points honestly

>>47670142
>not including Vayl1 in S-tier
you sweet summer child

>>47670089
Feral, Stalker, Ghetorix, Brennos, Wild Argus
2x Shifting Stones
Wilder
Tharn Shaman
Lanyssa Ryssyl

Something like that.
On the topic of Brennos, I think he might not be total shit. His stats went up so he can actually kill a heavy if you Primal him, and (outside of the Woldwrath) he's got the single best gun in the faction.

>>47670089
Kromac2
-Wild Argus
-Ghetorix
-Feral
-Stalker
-Stalker
-Brennos
Swamp Gobbers
75/75

>>47670245

Thanks!

Ghetorix is in--I'm probably going to avoid Woldwrath. I agree that interaction is awesome and I hadn't thought about the Vengeance/knockdown. That's killer.

What do you think about Tharn Ravagers with him? Under feat they hit fairly hard and they should murder/rape most infantry.

>>47670349
>Ravagers
They're pretty liable to just get shot off the board.
13/15 is very easy to kill

>>47670306
>>47670323

You guys rock, thank you :).

So common items I see:

Ghetorix is a for sure
Stalker (Sprint seems pretty killer on Kromac)
Feral for Primal
....after that it gets kind of dicey/up to the player?

Why the Shaman?

And yeah I think Brennos might actually be ok. He's got a great gun, a possibly brilliant animus and under feat/Primal he should hit ok. Regardless, I like his model so he's in :).

>>47670381

Yeah. I just don't know about infantry in this version of Warmahordes :(.

Seems like lists are going to boil down to: Lots of heavies, then some kind of cheap/easy answer to weapon master spam.

>>47670403
>Why the Shaman?
He provides a no-knockdown bubble for Tharn. 14/18 (20 with Spiny Growth thanks to Ghetorix) with no-knockdown is a bitch and a half to kill.

His other spells aren't too shabby either, he can hand out Magic Weapon or help clear an infantry jam with Battle Wizard + Chain Lightning.

Bethanyne +20
-Belphagore -0
-Blightbringer -38
-Scythean -18
-Harrier -3
Beast Mistress -4
-Shredder -4
Swordsmen + UA -21
Spawning Vessel -7

mehhhhhh. I like the BB in general, and its tech is awesome, but it may just be too much for this list. and i'm actually not sure if its auras benefit Beth while she's melded.

I'd possibly swap him for Raptors (-18), Annyssa (-8), two Deathstalkers (-8), two Spell Martyrs (-2), and Swamp Gobbers (-2).

Or Warspears + UA (-20), Annyssa (-8), two Spell Martyrs (-2) and two Deathstalkers (-8)

>>47670476
by too much, I mean too many points in one thing. Beth wants multiple beasts and a lot of infantry making it in. having either spears or raptors (which are WM) flanking is really gross vs heavies. annyssa and deathstalkers are great solo hunters/infantry killers (6 per turn between them in all likelihood). under a feat i feel like charging raptors and swordsmen will do a lot of damage to heavies.

>>47670474

Ahh, ok! Thanks again!

>>47670416
Nah, infantry are still okay, though they've been relegated to more of a supporting role than in Mk2 I think.

Druids, Woldstalkers, Blood Witches, Bloodtrackers and Skinwalkers all have their place, but the bigger Tharn got nerfed and were bad to begin with.

Stalker has always been a staple beast for Circle, Sprint is amazing, Berserk lets it clear out infantry efficiently, and it hits extremely hard with Primal and STR buffs on it.
Ghetorix is still great, doubly so with Kromac now, since he lets Kromac drop Spiny Growth on himself to keep him alive.

I'd definitely recommend Swamp Gobbers with Kromac though - for two points they help keep him much safer than he'd otherwise be, even with his high ARM, and DEF 16 Warpwolves in their cloud is pretty obnoxious.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rktt2uw29q3fy5k/AAAgvmEv04DYU2Gg_cqUxsDta?dl=0

Spoilers, if you haven't seen them yet.

>>47670272
Uh, Vayl1 isn't on the list.

>>47670707
Shit I'm drunk, nevermind. But Vayl1 would be my choice to round out the list at ten.

>>47670113
pMorghoul? Free focus amounts to a charge, and you've got a lot of pow 16. Best case you can cycle fury to two berzerkers.

Also banez

>>47670707
I meant she was S-tier in mk2 and still very good.

>>47670595
Damn, why is this the first I'm hearing about the Nyss Warlord?

>>47670588

>they've been relegated to more of a supporting role than in Mk2

What does that mean for infantry heavy Khador lists?

>>47670879
From the games I've played, it's not as much of a thing anymore. Combined arms is the name of the game.

I've had success with 2-3 Warjacks and 2 units, plus support.

Kayazy Stronk still.

The meta's still too new to really say for sure though.

>>47668308
The Basilisk Drake might still have it.

>>47670846
Cause you haven't paid any attention to any of the leaks so far?
I'm fucking hype for the hellmouth.
And I'll hold onto hope that the new character beast isn't another steaming pile.

>>47670846
Wait, what?

>>47671043
hellmouth is fucking legit

there's been teasers that the beast is returning Dragon's Fire to us as a non-SELF animus. we can hope.

>>47671060
>there's been teasers that the beast is returning Dragon's Fire to us as a non-SELF animus

>make all animi shitty
>make new beasts with the original good animi
>design space!

PP you've done it again

MY BODY IS READY

>>47671060
That sounds great, but i've no doubt it'll be an expensive animus, and probably cast exclusively by warlocks.

>>47671173
They've gotta do something with all this design space they cleared up by nuking animi.
My favorite new one is Zuriel's- They classify character beast animi as unique, but he apparently shares his with a fucking harrier.

>>47671043
I've heard about the Hellmouth, but not the Warlord. Still waiting to see if the Skorne stuff gets leaked. The Hellmouth is tasty, though.

>>47671420

The Harrier change still baffles me.

It went from having an active role darting around the field poking support pieces and solos to being a little floaty animus battery for your caster.

If True Strike was too good I can somewhat understand that on some level, but why did it lose Sprint?

>>47670476
>>47670538

My intuition is that she wants to run grot raiders + assassin, and then raeks to "mark" targets for flank. The raiders are cheap enough you can treat them as expendable post-feat and cover a lot of the board relatively inexpensively. Kinda looking at:

B&B +20
- Blightbringer 38
- Raek 8
- Raek 8
Grot raiders 12
Grot raiders 12
Grot assassin 4
Grot assassin 4

... with 9 points left over (Annyssia or two deathstalkers + Shepherd, maybe?)

With the idea being you threaten the whole fucking board on turn 2 with the now-both-fast-and-flying-and-stealth-too grots, feat to take out anything that can threaten the Blightbringer asap, and then dominate scenario with impunity while the remaining grots jam.

>>47671449
Speaking of that, has anyone seen the bilingual leaks for Circle or Protectorate?

So after two battlebox games using MK2.5 rules. I gotta say the new overboost rules feel way better in action then on paper.

The real trick that paper-theory doesn't account for is how much it reacts to the opponents luck. If they perform just a bit under average then the new overboost destroys their assassination. (a bad miss or low damage roll = they keep a focus for another roll)

It's hard to explain. But for example Magnus the traitor with 6 focus just beating into a 4 focus Syntherion could not do the job. In hind sight I should have boosted damage on initials and camped.

Overall I think high arm casters can play much further forward while camping 3-4. While high def casters may have to position more defensively to avoid being combo'd into the dirt but 1-2 focus can offset any lucky hits the opponent has.

So I see they added the AOE for the Assault Kommandos.

But did they do anything for Man O War units and their deficiencies?

>>47672329
Weirdly. The new Iron Flesh Means Shocktroopers can skew at Arm 23 without slowing down. Also all MOW are repairable by default.
The Kovnik on top of being a Jack Marshal (One who is really needs boundless charge for maximum efficiency to perform well), can give desparate pace too any MOW thing.

On top of that a future shocktrooper UA gives them Immovable, unknockdownable and assault. Also 2 new points cheaper

Demo Core got slightly cheaper and utterly shit exchanging weaponmaster or Backswing for POW 16, and a crit freeze effect.

Bombardiers are now the same cost and Shocktroopers, and retained CRA, taking them from "This is retarded terrible" too "Eh, sometimes I think".

>>47666704

Then make them worth playing rather than forcing them on the player.

Anybody got any info on the Mk III Retribution releases, new healer and Ellowyr swordsmen?

>>47669248

It's amazing the types of people that can get away with drawing disability these days.

Mr. "I can still swing my Pillars of Halaak... with one hand!" gets to have his mobility rhino.

Old heretic Zaal gets a whole new construct body, (made out of enough obsidian to craft ten Immortals, mind you).

Rasheth has a veritable army of baby titans that he exhausts just to haul his fat ass around.

It's absolute decadence; all of it paid in Skorne blood!

>>47671449
Skorne leaks are in here >>47670595

>>47670113
How do I personally beat it?

Iron mother.

Blow one up at range, turn one around with domination, drag two in to their death. I've killed maybe six of them by turn three, and used servitors to block the charge lanes of what's left.

Then I just mop up.

>>47672758
Did they get anything new?

if you guys had 140 $US to start your cygnar army what would you buy? Would buying the mk2 and mk3 battleboxes be a good idea? how often do you use ironclads?

>>47673143
maybe try to track down one of the all in one army boxes?

If you had an opportunity to buy legionnaires +Farilor for pretty damn cheap would you go for it?

>>47673143
Don't bother with the Mk2 box unless you can get it for like 50% off, it's basically hot garbage if your goal is to build a decent army on a budget.

Ironclads aren't terrible but most of the time your first choice of a heavy is going to be something more specialized, unless you're running Darius or something who wants a zillion 'jacks you're probably looking at one Ironclad tops in most lists.

>>47673161
One of the guys at the store said those are impossible to find?

>>47673212

a local store had a 50% anniversary sale recently and legionnaires were one of the few warmachine things they had, I still passed

I AM LOOKING FOR A SYSTEM TO RUN MY RPG SETTING IN.

IT NEEDS MECHANICS FOR RUDIMENTARY GUNS, SANITY, MELEE COMBAT AGAINST MONSTERS OF AN ASSORTMENT OF SIZES, LIGHT MAGIC, SOME ZOMBIES, AND SOME ELDRITCH HORRORS.

DOES THE IRON KINGDOMS RPG WORK WELL FOR THOSE?
OR DOES IT BLOW GREAT BIG DONKEY BALLZ?

>>47673306
LOL< BALLZ< 4 FREALS!

Anyway outside of that you have two choices:

The original Setting for D&D 3e, Which has good setting work but mehcanics are 3e+.......

Then there is the modern which is essentially "Tabletop wargame, the Tabletop RPG!"

>>47673306
IKRPG is crap
Pathfinder or Dnd would work fine
If you want to roleplay and don't care so much about crunch, Fate is pretty fun.

>>47673450
pardon?

I have no intention of running d20 for this thing...

>>47673466
might look at FATE, the other thing I'm looking at is Call of the Void(a variant of Song of Swords)

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>0.5 cost reduction
>lost 3 boxes and Beat Back
>picked up Marshal, Field Reinforcement, and Combo Smite
So while the Scyir works for marching down a flank with a light jack and a wall of Dawnguard, I'm not seeing why the Artificer would see use as a marshal.

He's a hefty investment that AFAIK wants to hang by your 'caster to hand off Force Barrier and screen LoS, and with Power Up existing I fail to see why you would want to pull something out of the battlegroup when the Artificer will usually be inside the Control Area.

Are there any specfic potential setups I'm missing with my generalized picture of his role?

>>47668202
Wait. Why can't he?

>>47672758
That's the early deck, which doesn't have the new stuff like the leaked version posted in there. It doesn't even have all the Skorne line, still waiting on cards for the Desert Hydra.

>>47673702
He can, but it's a lot harder to set up.
Can't charge friendly models anymore.

>>47673675
>Power Up existing
That sums up the problem with Marshals heading into the new edition.

>>47665717
>I can't wait to use Commodore in Cryx with Skarre.
> LIMITED EMPLOYMENT – This unit can be included only in armies that include
a Privateer warcaster

>>47673883
Certain jacks super like marshaling, even more than Power Up

>>47673883
Pretty much this.
I'd love to take Marshals in Khador, but since the Koldun Lord lost Power Up I just can't see the point.

>>47673883
That's what worries me about the Scyir as well. Tactician gives you Ranked Attack+ in the form of leapfrogging Dawnguard, but the Scyir himself really wants a jack around in B2B to avoid getting murdered.

I'll have to fuck around with a Scyir+Griffon+Sentinel blob next week and see what results I get from it.

>>47673143
Sloan and as many hunters you can get. Not even a joke. Oh and get ecaine too.

>>47673883
Like if they still granted psuedo focus AND their new extra benefits AND whatever Jack Marshal drive ability whatever- Then maybe.

>>47673904
I know there are some good match ups, the Cyclone and Gun Mage Officer off the top of my head, but I feel that 80-90% of the time, a jack would be better off under a battlegroup than a Marshal.

>>47674094
> skew list recommendation for the novice
> Not even a joke
You should feel bad

>>47673925
Khador's problem is that without dipping into Mercs, they have one Marshal, and his drive isn't great due to the low RAT on everything. There's some good choices to Marshal, the Marauder and the Berserker for example, but then you lose out of the Assault Drive. At that point, the only benefit over Power Up would be ignoring the 1-in-6 chance of the Berserker blowing up.

>>47674043
The Griffon also means that it can scoot forward and poke with the Scyir when the Righteous Vengeance goes off.

Considering soles says that Theme forces are built into the game design, we are pretty much gonna have to end up purchasing the "Forces of" books to get the fascinating theme force benefits.

Or War Room.

>>47673143
sigh....okay So assuming this is a new player.

First the new battlebox. Maddox is a pretty good starter caster and the box is a good deal for quantity. That gets you an ironclad, firefly, and a Lancer.
I'd suggest a second warcaster for variation. Given the battlegroup I'd look at Nemo1, Stryker1, or Haley1 off the cuff.

That should be about 60 out of a 140 budget spent.

Looking at units. Honestly? Trencher Infantry apparently come in a $50 dollar box with 3 Weapon Attachments. I think I'd honestly be able to suggest them.

So 110/140 ish. 30 dollars left. Squire, 20 dollars left. Journeyman Warcaster (9 bucks) 10 dollars left. With only 10 I'd say grab Eiryss or Gorman.

Dunno how all that works out PC wise. And if I had 60 more I'd be grabbing extra jacks. For an experienced player I'd suggest something very different and focused on which caster they want to play.

>>47674455
Or you ask a buddy that has the book to let you make a copy of the page with your themes on it. Remember there are far fewer themes.

Or maybe you just hang around 4chan and the problem solves itself?

>>47674601
Ah wait Nix the Jr. It needs a battlegroup to be played so it isn't an efficient use of money early. You need to own some jacks first.

Maybe get a charger instead of merc solos.

>>47669255
Unless you mean the kraken or Sepulcher I'm not sure what you mean about shooty jack.

*harrower only has one shot

>>47674441
I think the assault is the least important part of the kovniks marshal. The extra damage on the guns is great for certain shit, and the assault is just bonus for when you get there.

>>47674455

they said it's stuff like bring 25 points of x get y, bring x unit they get y benefit, and bring x get 2" deploy type stuff, they'll be typed up on the internet 10 minutes after the books are released

>>47674856
It could make the Berserker kinda neat too, MAT 7 Berserk is a lot better than MAT 5

Fuck it, Marshal a Conquest and Assault with all those templates.

>>47675196
Unless it's been changed, you can't marshal Colossals

>>47673891
Skarre is a privateer though, she has a permission from Toruk to attack ships from other nations.

>>47675261
Probably not, but it would be a hilarious waste of points.

>>47675266
If only, anon. I had the opportunity to buy the commodore for $25 yesterday.

If only.

>>47667341
Why you people insist on playing Triumph ?

I really don't uderstand.

>>47674455
Thank the Lord for pirate bay, right?

>>47675391
Its good in mk3?

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>>47669444
>>47669821
Seems I didn't put them all on my Dropbox, so I'll have to post the one about Terminal Velocity when I get back home

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>>47675643

>>47667785
honestly, with the new mat7 rules on the Juggernaut chassis I dont think so, just need good placement. I literally more often than not have seen focus go to waster on juggernauts on the charge because a boosted pow19 hit will at least severaly cripple something more often than not.

>>47672329
>So I see they added the AOE for the Assault Kommandos.

What are you talking about? They always had the AoE effect, it's just changed to an anti-tough/healing effect instead of a DEF debuff.

So my piles of salt over Skorne are kinda going away. Point for point a lot of options are straight up better but I've been talking a look at their brickiness.

Two lists I've been thinking about are pXerxis bricks and Rasheth shooting lists.

Arm 23 titans seem good, and the cetrati arm can climb to the 22/24 range. Orin can bring that cool power vortex and there's a lot of steady, brace for impact, sacred ward, etc to help with control effects. Feat turns can get pretty explosive as well.

Rasheth having a def debuff in addition to arm for all targets makes me think the mammoth, double skornapult, double efaarit, and signers and reavers can perform pretty well.

>>47670113
Anything than charges more than 8" beats it.

>>47676393

skorners been crying for literally no reason? no way!

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EYO HOLD UP
>Minuteman now has gunfighter
HOW DID I MISS THIS
BLOODY CIRCLE SYMBOLS SO EASY TO IGNORE

>>47676715
Well, being the bottom of the competitive totem pile most of mk2 and receiving across the board defensive stat debuffs isn't really "no reason."

Have you played against harby or eKreuger as Skorne? It isn't even a game

>>47675445
Hope your joking. It still suck.

An heavy that can't treath other heavy in melee and cost 2 point less than 2 Hunter that pull out the same number of shoots for turn, but boosted.

Under fear like pHaley or Kara having 2 xHunter is a lot better than Triumph.

I don't understand why people insist so much.

>>47677067


Look how many people missed that the OAC gained assault

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>>47669444
>>47669821
Here we go.

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>>47677423

>>47677326
Get off of /tg/, Kovnik Joe.

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>>47677433

>>47677423
>>47677433
man this reminds me that her model (or the paintjob) has not aged well.

I have an opportunity to pick up some doom reavers on the ultra cheap. Just not sure how many units are really worth it in mk3. Not interested in running the 5-unit equivalent to Mad Dogs either. I was thinking 2 would be good enough. What do you all think?

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>>47677442
Taking suggestions for more of these. Don't have to be cryx

SKREEEONK!

>>47674441
Low RAT is less issue when you have KD on a stick

>>47674094
>>47674337
The list itself is a total joke.

>>47677455
Nyss cooking show.

>>47677454

2 should be fine for anyone not running as many as they can, go for it

>>47667625
Yeah B on Andy is pretty great. She's got a lot of boxes if you need to speed her up with redline and just needs 1 focus to be optimal at range. I would've liked some kind of mechanic but it's not real necessary.

On Sorscha, basically I have a love affair with Ruin (he's SO CHEAP) and these 2 jacks put her at exactly her WJP of 29 - I don't know where else to pull points if I go over unless it's eliminating A&H. Ruin does have a magic weapon but little else does aside from Sorscha herself and Eiryss

Why eiryss1 over 2? 2 just seems like a toolkit where you can use more turn by turn and she and versh together really bully any spellcasting

>>47677554
Do you think it's ever worth it to run 5 like Mad Dogs though? I mean I could be persuaded...

so who is excited to put 12 points on the table and win every piece trade ever? i don't care legion heavies lost a 1 speed when we have an extra 11 inches or threat

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Getting back in for third edition after 12 years of never playing.
What is a good Magnus merc list?
I have steelheads, Devil Dogs, Boomhowler, Steelhead Cav, Stannis, etc, a lot of solos, but no colossals or any super new stuff.

>>47677490
Notsomuch.

Khador has had def-debuffs with the Greylords for a while now. And sure the cannon has longer range...But now also lower RAT.

It still is an issue.

>>47677860
RAT 5 (or 7 with aim/Artillery Kapitan, or 9 with both) vs a heavy (or even many lights) almost guarantees a KD and then the assault just needs not-snake-eyes to hit. I mean it's not boosting and it's not the most amazing ever but it's good.