What is the absolute last thing you ever want to see in a fantasy setting? What absolutely fucking grinds your gears in a world of swords and sorcery, dragons and dungeons and dick-ass thieves?
For someone that would write a setting for a new campaign, what would you advise completely avoiding?
Kenders.
Kenders
Grimdarkness for its own sake
Kender
Airships, I fucking despise SKY PIRATES and that anime abortion spawn.
Magical realm unless that's the specific purpose of the campaign.
>>47664407
A "strong" warrior woman race
>>47664513
>>47664542
>>47664559
Kender are just children by any other name.
If you read picrelated and replace every instance of the word "kender" with "children", you get the modern society's perspective on children - "children should be forgiven for their misbehaviour", "children are the wonder of the world", "children are creative and curious" etc.
Just imagine that the whole description of the kender race was written by a football mom, and it fits right in.
>>47664407
Mary Sue races/characters, as well as anachronistic progressive politics being written into the setting
>>47664598
Also this as a matter of taste
>>47664629
Well surprise surprise, I hate children, too.
>Kender a homophone for Kinder which is German for child.
>>47664683
>>47664629
>>47664559
>>47664542
>>47664513
Fucking hilarious as this is, I figured that mentioning Kenders in this list is low hanging fruit. It's too obvious.
May as well have said "I don't want to see sub machine-guns in a fantasy setting."
>>47664646
>anachronistic progressive politics
Do you mind if they're not forced just accepted? Like if you have a gay player who wants to play a gay character, if it wasn't already specified what your world's view on homosexuality is, would you just make it a non-issue?
From my perspective, as long as the player in question isn't forcing their views on the world, I would attempt to accommodate the character same as I would try to help anyone else fit their character's backstory into the world. If they make it an issue and bring it up with "fuck you I'm going to play a heteroromanticallybisexual trans-atlantic seaboardkin francophile and my character is going to bring it up 24/7," then I don't see an issue with just not bringing up any social politics unless it drives the plot. If it is a point of contention that say women are oppressed in the society, then I'll fucking stick to that, but if it doesn't change anything else I just tend to assume it's whatever will make the most people happy at the table.
Personally speaking? The elves/dwarves/orcs trinity of stereotypical Tolkien-infused fantasy races. That kills my interest faster than anything else.
Time travel and Kenders
>>47664407
bikini armor
>>47664407
Races that resemble prepubescent girls that can live for hundreds if not thousands of years old. It's a relatively new thing, but it became real old real fast.
>>47664598
I HEARD YOU WERE TALKIN SHIT ABOUT AIRSHIPS?
>>47664741
but but muh sjws!
>>47664598
Oi. Crimson Skies is the best.
>>47664748
How about just don't take on Tolkien at all? Everyone and their papa already has. Tolkien has gotten really old. Ironically, there are much older stories and settings that barely anyone has really ripped off, so try and find some of those to take inspiration from. Or try taking inspiration from some new, wholly original thing you found, if such a thing exists.
>>47664646
of course, the shady vampire countess has to be 1000% h e t e r o s e x u a l or someone would get massively triggered
>>47664407
>SURPRISE! We're really on earth and it's post-apocalypse!
>Here's a future gun!
>>47664827
>surprise! we're really on a space colony!
>here's an ancient AI in an indestructible robot shell that's trying to erase 99% of humanity!
>>47664407
>there is everything we have today, except it is a cartoony steampunk appliance
>big fat leaderboard with levels in the middle of town
>characters aware of game mechanics
>fourth wall breaks
>political ideology preached as unfailable
>monogender race
>modern youth language
>nonsensical sexual dimorphism in a species(fashion models and cavetrog males etc.)
>cramming in absolutely everything
>ill defined universal adventurer guild, MMO questhub
>portals make any travel obsolete
>farming respawning monsters for loot/xp
>frequent timetravel
>infinite multiverse dimension hopping
>>47664741
>if you have a gay player who wants to play a gay character
That's not that weird, historically speaking.
You get into problems when you have Communism, or Socialized Medicine inserted into a medieval setting.
>>47664864
>>big fat leaderboard with levels in the middle of town
>>characters aware of game mechanics
>>monogender race
>>modern youth language
>>nonsensical sexual dimorphism in a species(fashion models and cavetrog males etc.)
>>cramming in absolutely everything
>>ill defined universal adventurer guild, MMO questhub
>>portals make any travel obsolete
>>farming respawning monsters for loot/xp
Have you been subjected to WOW the right?
>>47664629
pretty sure they were literally written as such initially so yeah
Kenders, but I suppose they're a cheap shot.
Widespread high quality contraception.
"Clap your hands if you believe".
Copy-of-copy-of-copy-of-Tolkien laziness.
Miscellaneous anachronisms.
>>47664819
CRIMSON SKIES WAS DEISELPUNK.
I'M TALKING ABOUT SWORD AND SORCERY HAVING FUCKING AIRSHIPS.
>>47664822
I mean, my personal preference is for the setting to do one of two things:
1) Create entirely new creatures/monsters/races, not based on any particular pre-existing fiction of myth
2) do what people like Bram Stoker or Tolkien did for their own iconic creations, namely go back to the old myths/legends which have lots of different versions/interpretations, and pick and choose from those myths to create something distinctly your own.
>>47664822
people rarely take straight from tolkien, they just take standard d&d shit which is tolkien as interpreted through a game of telephone
>>47664931
>he has a problem with airships
>>47664899
Indeed I have been, though I have no problem with MMO mechanics in principle. Though dredging the muck to find decent roleplayers with common sense was pain.
>>47664741
Like everything, if they can do it tastefully it's ok in my book, being gay? Sure, don't exepct to be treated well tough, no one respected gays in ancient times (The Aztecs downright impalled them). Women warriors? Why not. Armies of women or with great deals of them? Unless a very good reason, nope it cheapens the setting.
>>47664598
>Hating Nausicca and Miyazaki.
Faggot.
>>47664407
>Adventurers and heroes are really common.
Oddly enough that was something I added to my setting when world building and I ended up hating it in play. It felt like an opportunity to introduce neat NPCs but it just ended up making the party ignore any real threat. They just assumed the other adventurers would do it instead, and looking back I suppose there's no reason a more qualified adventurer wouldn't do it in their place.
Sky pirates are awesome.
>>47664931
IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE GLORY OF SKYPIRATES, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LEAVE. YOU COULD LOOK AT TREASURE PLANET, WHICH WAS ALSO THE BOMB. WHILE IT WAS ALLEGEDLY SCI-FI, IT'S EASY TO SEE HOW IT COULD EASILY BE A HIGH FANTASY SETTING.
>>47664981
>don't exepct to be treated well tough
Depends on the time period. It was the norm in parts of Ancient Greece.
Homosex was pretty well accepted in parts of Asia too.
>>47664407
> What absolutely fucking grinds your gears in a world of swords and sorcery, dragons and dungeons and dick-ass thieves?
People who don't act like they're living in that kind of world.
>>47664873
>Communism
I'd make exception for actual communes of communists, as they showed up way before the medieval era. But a Communist nation? Hell no.
>>47664931
EDGE CHRONICLES IS GOOD YOU UNCULTURED SWINE
>>47664996
>Adventurers and heroes are really common.
This. If really breaks my immersion.
Historically the closest think I could think of would be tomb robbers or conquistadors.
>>47665034
What do you mean?
>>47665015
>It was the norm in parts of Ancient Greece.
Nope. Fucking a man in the ass isn't gay, and in fact was viewed as a display of masculinity. Being fucked in the ass, on the other hand, was most certainly gay, and was a sign of inferiority/femininity(?). Those being fucked in the ass were certainly viewed as something lesser, something undesirable.
>>47664981
>The Aztecs downright impalled them
So did the Greeks... In a good way.
>>47665015
No it wasn't dude. First homosex wasn't a respectable thing to do, but at least it didn't lower your stance if you were the one doing the dicking. Fellating or giving the ass? You were considered the lowest of the society because those things were done be slaves. Also people in those ages didn't have a concept of homosexuality, gender and all that bullshit, you could fuck a goat for all they cared, while you also fucked your wife and were a productive member of the society. They would laugh at you for your vices if they were known tough, and was a sure way to embarass your enemies to call them the butt giver like it happened with Caesar and the Bythunian king.
>>47664981
Why couldn't gay people being accepted be a thing in a fantasy world?
>various homosex posts
Maybe we should file this under "anachronistic notions of homosexuality" ?
>>47664407
Honestly, nothing.
I don't have issues with setting elements because ALL of them are inherently without substance or real meaning because they are purely fictional.
My issues are with lazy or poor writing and lazy or poor execution, not with the supposed "inherent" flaws in something that has no inherent flaws or upsides.
>>47664407
To be honest, nothing. But I will say that generic medieval european settings bore me quite a bit.
>>47665140
This, honestly.
>>47665125
homosexuality is degeneracy that would never have existed if someone had shot Karl Marx's mother before she gave birth to that demagoge.
>>47665089
>Those being fucked in the ass were certainly viewed as something lesser, something undesirable.
Not always. See: Sparta or the Sacred Band of Thebes
Also the character could be a top, and then the crisis is averted.
>>47665165
That's one too many >>>/pol/ buzzwords in a single post, friend. I think you're on the wrong board.
>>47665165
Thanks for your input, /Stormfront/
>>47665140
I would say that a lot of the examples given in this thread are an example of poor writing/execution.
>>47665171
>Not always. See: Sparta or the Sacred Band of Thebes
Those are definitely abnormal, most notably the Sacred Band.
Towns, villages, and cities with nonexistent governments
>>47664719
My fantasy setting has submachine guns.
But it isn't based on medieval Europe, so maybe it doesn't count.
>>47665207
What about Florence? I don't believe it had a single ruling body.
>>47664741
My issue is treating homosexuality in a fantasy culture the same way progressives treat it today. Gays are inevitably going to exist if a setting is honest, what bugs me is when people use the setting as an excuse to bash or straw-man their political opposition. "Me and my gay orc boyfriend are going to force the temple of Pelor to host our wedding because they're bigots!" for example.
>>47664826
No idea what you mean here
>>47665125
Speaking as:
>>47664646
Yes, I agree, that's one of the things that bothers me, the ideas of races or gays being treated in fantasy with strange marxist lenses that cause people to think modern american conceptions of gays would exist in fantasy land, or that orcs must be kindly oppressed proles
>>47664778
Relatively new? Fairie princess wants to speak with you.
For reference: The words "homosexual" and "heterosexual" don't show up in the English language until 1892, and they don't move outside one translation of a German wordgluingpile medicinewritingbook until around 1920.
The notion of a "homosexual" character in a fantasy setting is a really weird import of a notion that didn't even *exist* until recently. It's like wanting to play a "programmer" character. No can do, you should probably round that off to "scribe" or similar profession unless you get the GM to introduce Magical Computers, and likewise "homosexual" involves Magical Sexual Fashion. You should round it off to something else.
Very roughly summarizing three groups of views on something-like-homosexuals, societies of the past could be divided into:
-Norse, Aztecs, etc: IN THE BOG WITH YOU. ON THE STAKE WITH YOU. BURN THE SODOMITE.
-Greeks, Arabs, etc: Giving a dicking is awesome and manly, regardless of who or what you are dicking. Taking a dicking is pathetic and embarrassing. Having taken a dicking from your mentor when you were a child isn't so bad, though. Nobody knows or cares what the women get up to on their own time.
-Various nomads, tribals: Ehhhh the shaman/holy fool/spirit-speaker always gets up to weird stuff, last week he bit the head off a live chicken, yesterday he licked every square inch of the tent, today he stuck his penis up a man's ass, I dunno man, I don't question the shaman.
Wizard schools.
>>47665232
That had a lot to do with the flow of capital.
Thatched roof villages that produce rutabagas and see maybe one trader every two months don't have the context surrounding them that free cities have
>>47665365
So why is
>The baker likes to take in the ass, but he bakes good bread and doesn't diddle boys so I don't really care.
Totally unrealistic? Besides that not really being an historical cultural thing that I know of.
>>47665199
>abnormal
You could say that. But you'll not I said "Parts of Greece"
In my book, as long as their is a historical precedent, that I wouldn't say it's a major problem for a fantasy setting.
>>47665497
At the same time, a town of 20-30 families where everyone lives in thatched roof cottages probably isn't even gonna bother having a mayor. Maybe a town hall where the patriarchs or what have you gather to take about issues but not any central government.
>>47664719
>not wanting to see sub machine-guns in a fantasy setting
How else are we going to remove Kender?
>>47665416
I'm alright with those in a setting where magic is feared and dangerous.
A wizard school is sort of the wizards compromise in order not to be burned at the stake.
>>47664962
Precisely.
>>47665544
Yeah. Dragon Age had a decent justification for it, in that Wizards were basically 40k psykers and most people don't trust them to not be possessed by demons/go mad with power. So they all gather in one place to keep an eye on them.
>>47665524
>Maybe a town hall where the patriarchs or what have you gather to take about issues but not any central government.
Exactly. If the town is small enough, it probably just falls to a consensus of a group of patriarchs/elders.
There aren't a hole lot of town decisions that need to be made.
>>47664407
'Misunderstood' monsters being the norm. It's fine if you want to make Orks or Goblins an actual race that isn't universally evil if you present it as that beforehand, but trying to make every vampire or mindflayer the party meets 'secretly good' as a twist in order to be different or preach some moral lesson is dumb.
Have some monsters be monsters.
>>47665365
The greeks didn't penetrate the epheboi tough, it was considered a shaming act, alos not all the people than participated in the Epheboy had sex with they pupils. Plus the Greeks and Romans had diffrent kinds of love and people tend to translate friendly love with lusting love or even familial love,mudding the issue even further.
>>47664873
>Socialized Medicine
The Temple of [Fantasy God] is offering free healing and blessings for the sick to further cement its place as a member of the community and improve the conditions of the community. (Also as a prudent measure against the spread of plagues and keeping to populace fit for working, aside from the obvious thankfulness and devotion the church receives for its services, and the faith the god gets in return.)
I suppose that's much different than socialized medicine, but function can be preserved even if socio-politics is much different.
>>47665572
Exactly. I'm alright with it, if it's less about training wizards and more about policing wizards.
>>47665005
IT'S JUST SPELLJAMMER WHICH IS HIGH FANTASY.
>>47665602
Now I want a universally good race that everyone, themselves included, think is always chaotic evil. With every individual thinking that they (possibly their family line) are the exception and must hide it from the others at all costs.
>>47664965
>wanting a 19 year old zeppelin
who wants something this obsolete
>>47665623
Well, unless magic really is just a learned academic skill and not some talent thing.
>>47665094
As I've heard it, it was a power thing, so face-fucking is better than fucking someone's ass, because you're looking them in the eye as you fuck their mouth.
As women < men socially (ignoring class and free/unfree, though they both counted too), you had something along the lines of:
Face-fucking a man > Ass-fucking a man > Face-fucking a woman > Fucking a woman > Being fucked in the ass by a man > Being fucked in the face by a man > Being fucked in the face by a woman
Which would make eating out a slave woman about the lowest thing you can do, presumably.
also hence the first line of Catullus 16:
>Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo
(I will sodomise and face-fuck you)
As one of the most obscene things you can say in Latin. The whole poem is like that, it's excellent
>>47665506
Usually it has to do with the cultures involved, some see a man taking it in the ass as being submissive, and thus not worthy of respect. What's unrealistic is the "I don't really care" part.
People cared, especially in the sedentary agrarian cultures where bakers existed. The kind of libertarian "It doesn't hurt me so I don't care" attitude is something that needs a great deal of explaining in a fantasy culture.
The parameters can be set that way, sure, and it can even be interesting, but it still requires some kind of explanation (at least to me)
>>47665524
Fair point, though depending on the setting they might have a lord or similar
>>47665506
>So why is _ totally unrealistic? Besides that not really being an historical cultural thing that I know of.
Well, partly is is realistic, but mixed reasons sorted more or less by length:
partly you just answered your own question,
partly what's unrealistic is this ass-fixation getting screen time,
partly this "labor robot" view of humans based on product quality is the unrealistic thing when people in the past tended to know much more about their fellow villagers and their lives,
and partly most cultures had a view that something (gods, demons, spirits, sorcerers, the north wind) would occasionally put ridiculous ideas into your head. If you acted on these ideas instead of summoning up the willpower to live normally you were a derp. If you went so far as to define your personal identity around such ideas, you were really herping the derp. Don't do that.
>>47665057
It makes about as much sense as feudalism.
>>47665614
Free healthcare/healing isn't the same thing as socialized medicine.
The existence of free clinics in the US doesn't mean that they've adopted socialized medicine.
>>47664921
>Widespread high quality contraception.
Define high-quality.
>>47665664
Are you telling me feudalism doesn't make complete sense?
>>47665171
>Sparta.
Xenophon denies that, from were do you get it?
>>47665196
Yes, because mostly everyone on the thread is a poor writer or a bad GM.
If you mean the concepts themselves?
No.
The concepts themselves are concepts. They have no meaning. No value. No reality that is definable by physical laws. I could take a shit and it would have more defined substance then every idea in D&D ever because it actually would exist and is clearly defined.
Ideas are not BAD, but many writers and GM's are shitty.
>>47664629
I've always found it amusing how this has somehow become the default, despite not being the case in 1st ed, 2nd ed, or the actual source material.
>>47665506
That would be acceptable in Greek and Rome, assuming the guy plowing him was of higher social standing. Taking it in the ass was seen as shameful because it was a sign of submission, but if the person is somebody the rules of society say you have to be submissive towards anyway, then it wouldn't be particularly shameful.
If he's taking it in the ass from somebody from lower standing, well, that was hardly a capital offense, but it would be seen as a weird and shameful thing. Some people might be outraged, while others might not really give a fuck. After all, when two people have sex, somebody always has to be the receiving party.
I think a modern equivalent would be if the baker wore a fursuit or some fetish gear while working. Some people would be outraged, while others would go "well, that's weird and kind of creepy, but it's not like he's hurting anybody so what the fuck do I care".
>>47664749
Time Travel ruins settings that aren't specifically about it
>pseudoscience explanations for how monsters or races like elves evolved
>evolution in general
>undead being living people infected by something and not actually reanimated corpses
>applying real world chemistry to alchemy
>monsters that are as smart as people but have no society and are functionally animals aside from talking while you kill them
>anything trying to explain how magic is really science
>>47664407
This more applies to literature n' vidya n' shit, but anachronistic politics. Bonus points if they're taking time away from the core plot to espouse their shit.
>Yes. I get it. The gays are people too. Yes, I know the commies are going to come for my Not!Oil. Yes, yes. I know that such-and-such surrendered their humanity for their political beliefs. It's all very fascinating. Can we get back to stopping that one guy who's maybe a couple of hours away from cracking the world open like giant fucking egg, please?
>>47665673
If it makes me rage "these people should have contracepted themselves out of existence". ("Widespread" is an important part of that.)
>>47665662
I mean, obviously medieval bumpkins would have superstitions and beliefs surrounding homosexuality, as much as they have beliefs surrounding every facet of ones life or things that are mildly unusual. Just, why do those preconceived notions have to be negative by default?
>>47664407
Realism.
>>47664407
No loot.
>>47664407
Ressurection.
Immediately cheapens death and removes a ton of threat.
>>47665664
No it doesn't. Sense is irrelevant, Marxists are great at spouting rhetoric and getting people to cow to their demands, bu their governments don't seem to have much function, unless the goal being pursued is to starve until your country collapses into flaming rubble
Feudalism has no major proponents, certainly none who can you give you the feudalistic 'pitch' as it was back in the day, yet their form of government functioned much better than communist countries
>>47664407
Niggers.
>>47665662
>The kind of libertarian "It doesn't hurt me so I don't care" attitude is something that needs a great deal of explaining in a fantasy culture.
That kind of attitude would likely be fairly common in large cities, like Rome, where there's just so many people any individual person isn't likely to care very much about what some random other person they don't even really know is doing. In small villages where everybody knows each other such an attitude doesn't make sense, since in such place you don't really have a private life. Everybody knows everybody, and pretty much all matters concern the whole village.
>>47664407
ELVES
>>47665780
I got in a discussion the other day with a guy who pretty much was a proponent of restoring feudalism. Basically his pitch was that rule of law has degenerated into rule of "why don't you read fifty thousand pages of law to figure out if you're doing something wrong" and selective enforcement, so we might as well try to do rule of men properly.
>>47665365
Norse were anti-gay to be sure, but they had weird conceptions of gender. Pre-christian pagan understanding of "forest spirits" saw them as beyond the concept of gender, androgyne muses meant to divinely inspire. Wizards would wear cloaks to hide their masculine form and move among these genderless beings. Thus, putting on a cloak was adopting a transient genderless identity and going into the forest to be inspired by these other genderless beings.
The concept is known as seidr.It's also known as drag.
>>47665690
>Ideas have no value
Kay
>>47665748
They don't have to be negative, but if their attitudes are going to mirror contemporary views, it bears some explanation as to why.
For instance: "Healers have always been men who seek the company of other men, it is as their God commands"- this makes some kind of sense, whereas: "Of course the healer is gay, equality dude." is a poor explanation that only serves to remind me I'm not in a fantasy world
>>47665710
It isn't that big a stretch in my opinion. If the setting had active dieties, all you need is for one of them to okay man fucking.
>>47665833
That's more or less what I mean, he's giving an apologist/modern spin in the way he argues it to you
>>47665809
That attitude existing in a large cosmopolitan trade city makes sense, that's what I mean by explanation. I'm not that sure that peer groups wouldn't exist to enforce norms in these imagined fantasy cities, but again, my major reservation is on the explanations making some kind of sense, and not being overtly anachronistic author appeal
>>47664407
As a curiousity, I have attempted to count up replies. I have not attempted to count the /polgbt/ interlude. Most common:
Kenders x6
Tolkien clones x4
Time travel x3
Anachronisms x2
Wizard schools x2
Various others:
Grimdark
Airships
Magical realm
Amazons
Mary Sues
Bikini armor
Loli races
Setting is really post-apoc Earth
Setting is really space colony
Today but with steampunk
Adventurer Guilds and other World of Warcraftery
Communism
Socialized medicine
Contraception
Guns
Ungoverned cities
No loot
Resurrection
Niggers
Elves
>>47664407
Fetishy female armor being commonplace, with our without a ""logical"" explanation for it.
>>47666019
This. People like to pretend it's all in good fun, but it's just more magical realm bullshit.
>All these people acting like they've actually had to play with Kenders and not just perpetuating a meme
A mixture of japanese tropes with western medieval tropes. I'm looking at you pathfinder's samurai.
>>47664407
large scale slave labor
Stop applying medieval European views to fantasy settings. Faerun, for example, isn't medieval Europe. If you want to have attitudes toward homosexuality or whatever be reflective of that time, fine, but it's not wrong to have a world that's fine with humans mating with elves and living in cities with even more races, where gods are real and talk to people so there's not the same religiously driven homophobia (unless some of those gods do want The Gays purged).
>>47666070
How large scale does it have to be before it bothers you? And why?
>>47665996
>Resurrection
This is a big one for me too. It sort of cheapens death. And seems to have a lot of really big societal consequences that are never addressed.
>>47664407
Don't use dragons.
>>47666058
I don't even like the DnD Monk to be honest.
>>47664407
>feminism
>equalitarianism
>slavery is bad bad
>diversity
>dindus as a great civilization
>kenders
>>47665079
>What do you mean?
I think he means characters acting out of character for someone who would have been born in the setting.
>>47666019
Here's a good explanation: it looks good.
People on /tg/ have this weird idea that people before the modern era were always 100% practical and reasonable and never did stupid things, but there are examples of people doing exactly that: sacrificing sensibility for fashion (for example Napoleonic marines starching their collars so stiff they could snap your neck if you turned it).
That doesn't explain armor that is literally just chainmail nipple stickers, of course, but some boobplate or exposed skin could easily be excused. Really it's more a question of whether your medieval fantasy society would be sexually liberated enough to consider showing lots of skin desirable.
>>47666058
>setting where teleportation and flight is a thing, so is a caste of adventurers whose job is to travel all over the world
>it's impossible that cultures could have mixed to a greater extent that they did in RL medieval ages
>>47666089
I don't see anyone applying medieval European views to fantasy settings. I see people applying anything but modern European views to fantasy settings.
>>47665171
In Rome, going down on a woman was gayer than getting fucked in the ass.
>>47666131
Yeah. Recall that the romans had nipple-ab armor.
>>47666149
that's not true at all
>>47666110
>slavery
>ever good
well pol'd, my friend *sieg heils respectfully in your direction*
>>47666131
>>setting where teleportation and flight is a thing,
That'd be one of those other things mentioned.
If you add a modern transportation analogue, then it'll rapidly stop being a medieval setting. Which isn't to say that you couldn't mix oriental and occidental tropes in the same setting, it just wouldn't work well if they were also medieval tropes. Maybe something more like a Renaissance setting.
>>47664407
Firearms not akin to a blunderbuss or flintlock.
Can push it for some crazy dwarf weapon, but if everyone gets a revolver then no dice.
>>47666091
Large-scale chattel slavery (ie. what most people think of when they hear "slavery": people working on plantations and the like) wasn't really a thing until colonial times. Before that you did have criminals and war prisoners made to work in mines or farms, and people being sold as household slaves (you also had people who would willingly become slaves for set amount of time to pay off their depts and like), but it wasn't a large-scale industry. That only happened when nations began to set up huge plantations in their colonies to produce large amounts of goods, and needed a cheap source of labor to keep the costs down.
>>47666175
Slavery, or psuedo-slavery, are what powered the entire fucking world before the industrial revolution.
Rome was built with slaves, and it's what allowed them to maintain such a high quality of life. Medieval serfs were an evolved form of slavery. America built most of it's early wealth on slavery, and so did Britain. The Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the pyramids, but they certainly weren't really free.
>>47666089
Applying medieval European views to fantasy setting based on medieval Europe makes much more sense than applying modern views and then not explaining why.
While fantasy settings are not history, they should still make sense, and that includes a sense of realism and historicity.
The views on homosexuality or other (fantasy) races does not have to reflect medieval views to a t, but they do need to have some kind of explanation in universe, especially if there are castles, feudalism, armour, swords, etc.
>>47666195
>Forgets to mention the Arabs, the largest slave traders in all of history
>>47666185
>if everyone gets a revolver then no dice.
I agree.
I'm alright if it fits the setting themes, like a weird west.
>>47666195
>America built most of it's early wealth on slavery,
Not really. It was a major part fo the southern economy, but "most" is a pretty huge stretch.
>>>47665550
Adding to this an actual straight Tolkien-inspired setting would seem fresh even if you literally just copied the whole of his setting and switched some names and terms
>>47666279
>an all Bom Tombadil party doing nothing
Cherry-picking, I know, but it's the first thing I thought of
>>47666254
Cotton and cotton textiles were Americas largest exports in the early to mid 19th century. Cotton that was largely picked with slave labor. Mining in the south and manufacturing were also mainly done with slaves.
>>47666335
largest doesn't mean most
>>47666279
Elves that prefer the seas to the forests and are famous for their swan-ships, frinstance?
>>47666376
Wood elves than when hear the sea go gaga for it, like crazy addicted. The Sea is like crack for the teleri...
>>47666310
Tom Bombadil is one-of-a-kind though. There's not even an attempt at explaining what he is within the setting's cosmology, probably because the character is based on a toy one of Tolkien's kids had and not meant to be taken very seriously
There's a poetry book where he's a rather prominent character and which was tied to the rest of the legendarium as a compendium of Hobbitish folklore
>>47664407
Badly defined limits in a setting. It should be logically definable what is possible and what is not. If it cannot be defined, it should be mysterious and left of little importance.
To put it in other words, I dislike settings like most of D&D where magic can do pretty much everything or at least there's no practical reason why it wouldn't.
Similar examples in scifi settings would be Star Trek transporters and uploading/copying people's minds around. This kind of stuff disintegrates a setting if it's taken to its logical extreme. It's better not to have it at all.
>>47666335
> the early to mid 19th century.
Before that it was furs, an almost slavery free industry.
To say that "most" of it's early wealth was built on slavery is hyperbolic.
>>47664749
>>47666404
And yeah, time travel of course. But this is the same thing as examples before - you cannot have time travel in a setting without everything becoming instantly possible.
Kenders I have no opinion of, but would probably dislike if it became relevant.
>>47666376
The whole mystique Tolkien builds to the Sea and a fucking cardinal direction is unique
>>47666435
because there WAS no early wealth famalam.
>>47665611
>people tend to translate friendly love with lusting love or even familial love,mudding the issue even further.
>familial love
Is familial love the type of love Oedipus and his mother Jocasta had?
>>47665780
>bu their governments don't seem to have much function
They don't actually want a government in the end, so it's no surprise that they've sucked so much at operating them.
>>47666509
The love you have for your sisters, bros, father and mother, grandad and granny, best friends. Not sexual but powerful. Enlgish isn't one of my main languages so some nuances escape me so sorry if I can't express myself that well.
>>47666611
>ESLs in charge of not being incestual fucks
>>47666611
He's making a joke about Odepis Rex, a Greek play in which a dude accidentally fucks his mother.
>>47666149
There was no concept of gay as we know today. Being butt fucked was certainly associated with some feminine people, but not all homossexuals were catamites. Julius Caesar allegedly was the fuckboy of a foreign king or prince before becoming a general and he was respect and seem as manly by his troops.
>>47665089
>Fucking a man in the ass isn't gay
Keep saying that.
>>47666110
>>47666131
You are coming downhill from mont stupid but not past the curve yet. Man used armor to look great as much as to protect, yes. But did they do it by flaunting their perfected toned abs or having buttcheeks exposed with just a g string of leather coming out the tassets? No.
they made armor look a bit more like the clothes they would socially wear, like pointy shoes and sometimes codpieces and buffed out tassets. They also add jewelry, gold or detail to make it fancier. They polished it and stuff. But flaunting body was not a medieval habit for them and was certainly not a healthy one to match with occasion that require armor. You have now been educated, you can waste this gift and talk shit on the internet with me, or you can become a better person. Best wishes on your life's journey, anon.
>>47664407
> no tomboy knights
> no belt of gender change
> no cursed items/ability to enchant items
> no opportunity to go off DM rails
> no Schrodingers Trap princesses
> fetish armours reflect real world defence instead of counting as a legitimate counterpart
> magic can be used freely, no corrupting effects
> game isn't an ERP
>>47666660
That's what those of the time thought.
>>47666670
>no arguments, just pissy shitposts and memes
Found the tumblrina!
>>47666749
Stop trying to stir upt some shit, it's too obvious.
Only thing that comes to mind are Triple O deities.
The ability to do anything, everything, and nothing at the exact same time is ridiculous.
>>47666749
>Thinks his retarded post should get anything other than get called stupid.
Found the /pol/ shit.
>>47664407
Can't stand:
>Magic is something taught to children/adolescents by the hundreds in huge schools, in every major city. Yet the setting still regards it as "mysterious arcane knowledge".
>Magic/Mages are plentiful but mass land combat is still fought traditionally, instead of each side trying to drop spheres of annihilation on each other.
>Noble Savage Warcraft Orcs, instead of Homicidal Pigmen.
>Atheists in a setting where gods literally speak to their followers.
>Vampires and Werewolves in an epic racial struggle for some reason...the Werewolves are also Noble Savages.
>AntiPaladins...fuck you...my CN Fighter is an "AntiPaladin". Might as well make a "Dickass Thief" class while we're at it.
>>47666660
No, it's cool. The dude I fuck told me it's totally not gay.
>>47666842
I agree with all of these except for the dislike of Anti-Paladins.
I don't like them as a player class, but I do like them existing.
>>47666842
>>Atheists in a setting where gods literally speak to their followers.
While I have my gripes about the Forgotten Realms, I love how it points out how absurd this concept is. You either find a patron deity of some sort, or you wind up part of the Wall of the Faithless when you bite it.
>>47666842
>GM makes his orcs precious innocent dindus
>"no anon, detect evil doesn't work on every single orc because they're ~people like us~"
>he even does the shitty spongebob rainbow gesture
>gets utterly buttdestroyed when I purge them anyway
Time travel, resurrection magic that's commonplace at the local clergy/temple/whatever, and magic colleges/universities/schools. Hate all three of them equally.
>>47666932
>>he even does the shitty spongebob rainbow gesture
You got my allowance to punch him.
>>47665121
It could be.
I mean if you have to worry about orcs, goblins, ghouls, dragons and all sorts of monsters destroying your village and eating you then I doubt you would really care that much about fags.
That said, it's unlikely that people would be openly gay in a typical fantasy setting.
>>47664996
The closest thing I have are bands of mercs that occasionally get hired to retrieve an artifact or clear the goblins out of an area or something.
>>47666962lel you stupid motherfucker, you actually fell for it
>>47664407
Indians. I mean the Inca or Aztec kind, not the India kind. Fuck that shit. In fact fuck the India kind as well, but not as much.
>>47666842
>not making Orks a realistic race with solid motivations behind their attacks
They're still barbarian hordes who do awful things, but just not full retard barbarian hordes.
>>47667007
Are you twelve?
>>47667078
>sympathy for orcs
>>47667140
>implying I have any sympathy for non-humans
>>47666842
>>Magic/Mages are plentiful but mass land combat is still fought traditionally, instead of each side trying to drop spheres of annihilation on each other
oh shit, I just realized I did this. I haven't really outlined the orders of magic any of my players belong to though. I could hypothetically still say that magic isn't commonplace. The party hasn't met that many magic users.
>>47667177
The only way you can shove it in I think, is if you declare that your party is the first/second generation of magic graduates or some shit. Make the schools a "new project" of the country/empire
>>47666247
The way I understand it, the Arabs ruined slavery for the world by introducing large-scale chattel slavery.
>>47664407
Modern technology, including airships.
>>47664407
the players
"Scientific" magic, as in an easily defined and with no elements of mysticism.
When magic is incredibly common but has no effect on the stereotypical "medieval" society.
Out of touch decadent nobles in a setting where they frequently fight and lead troops into battle.
I don't think there is a single, individual thing that is just universally bad, period. A skilled storyteller can make almost anything work, even those things that most of us are probably sick of seeing over and over again. Personally, I really look into ways to avoid majority of fantasy clichés, and I don't like them in most works, but then again it's also partially because I don't trust myself to be good enough to really pull them off.
I'm sick of elves, dwarves, generic european medieval land, I'm sick of aristotelian elementalism and magic that is largely either too rigidly defined, or a collection of particle effects. But I don't think any of those is inherently and absolutely bad.
Really: it's the skill of the storyteller that matters, not any individual elements. I think the most common problem, most endemic to what I see around here, is that people don't really think very deeply about WHY they use the particular elements in their campaigns and worlds. Like so much genre fiction, people tend to think in line of tokens and tropes, rather than meanings and that inevitably leads towards generic, dull and uninteresting worlds.
>>47666842
>Atheists in a setting where gods literally speak to their followers.
Realistic, really. It makes as much sense as religious people in a setting where Gods don't interact with their followers.
>>47668167
>Realistic, really. It makes as much sense as religious people in a setting where Gods don't interact with their followers.
I think the very presumption of gods PHYSICALLY interacting with the world ironically enough throws the whole concept of region as a meaningful concept off very strongly. This is why I always disliked rigid, active gods in fantasy settings, though it maybe it's just a personal deformation of someone who is both quite strongly interested in religionistics and an atheist by background. Also, I think there is a very prevalent bias towards religion being understood in the way we understand christianity.
>>47668167
>a kender in darksun who believes so hard he makes jesus real
>>47668253
But how do you KNOW that it's a god really interacting with the world? It could be magic or something else naturally occurring. Absence of evidence that it's NOT a god is not evidence of absence of magic! You can't disprove that it's not a god.
>>47664407
Drow. Either they aren't done right and next thing you know the parties newest CG ranger doesn't even need sunglasses; or they are done right and then you have to deal with hyper evil spider fetish matriarchs and their hundreds of slaves and a kingdom of magical items designed to sodomize you.
>>47668350
>You can't disprove that it's not a god.
Again, the fundamental bias towards understanding religion as basically a flavor of christianity.
For me, here is the real problem: why do people "believe"? In a world where you can defined gods through systems and frankly rather empiric evidence, you don't need to believe in Gods: you can instead "know". The purpose of religion, as far as I can judge, is to very specifically fill in certain gaps of existence and experience that are important, but empirically out of the question. In a world where empirics either don't exist at all, or work completely differently (due to the presence of magic), religion in the same model as we understand it simply does not make much sense.
>>47664625
Would you mind it if:
A) The men are actually also strong; for whatever cultural reasons, most people only ever encounter the women, thus arising the way people think about it.
B) Non-human
C) Strong in some way such as via magic of psychic ability (which may or may not have an impact on physical strength)
Mostly just curious?
>>47664407
Memes
Settings based on shitty, lowest common denominator movies or games, like Ghostbusters or Fallout
>>47665416
Why?
>>47664407
"The Adventurer's Guild"
I want to have a load of different cultures and creatures.
How do I go with that idea in my fantasy setting? How do I address the elves and dwarfs? Should I remove them? I was thinking of putting them like the Wood Elves and Dwarfs from Warhammer Fantasy but it seems you nignogs hate elves and dwarfs. Maybe my party secretly hates them too.
>>47668924
>Should I remove them?
Ask yourself: what purpose do they have in your fiction? What the fuck are you trying to tell us here? Are they necessary? Do they have a place on the symbolic structure of your work? When Tolkien introduced these tropes, as a heavily modified variations of the old elements of scandinavian mythology, it was a very deliberate movement. Can you claim the same about your own fiction? Do you know why you have elves and dwarves in your work?
>>47665856
>wizard wears a cloak to disguise himself among spirits who are genderless in the same way rocks are genderless
>dood the norse wore drag confirmed!!1!!
How's that liberal arts degree treating you?
>>47664407
Guns and steampunk shit.
>>47665996
OP here, you're a gentleman and a scholar.... possibly a bit of OCD, but within healthy levels, I'd say.
>>47664407
Liberal values and SJWs.
>>47666842
What if my orcs aren't noble-savage WoW-clones, and are a militarized, organized society built on the political structure of a hegemony? That okay?
>>47669139
don't even bother trying to talk reason to deluded tumblr posters, they're never gonna learn
>>47669352
orcs are CHAOTIC evil.
>>47669352
That's more hobgoblins
>>47669038
The setting itself is about how something happened a milennia or so ago. And since then all living creatures have been subject to an increase in genetic mutation. In the short span of a 1000 years, the deep-into-the-mountains humans have now adapted into dwarfs. Others once humans have now linked themselves into the forest and nature in general, forming elves. But many other creatures have been progressively mutating. Like wolves progressively losing their hair and gaining scales and becoming highly aggressive and shit.
I thought of dwarven cities as the place to get the best non-magical weaponry (and an excuse for players to go mine exploring). World building wise, they are the reason why humans haven't been completely wiped out, since the rest of the living beings in the world are evolving faster than humans. The trade between human "natural surface resources" and the highly advanced dwarven metal working and minerals was incredibly helpful for both races. (humans give food and wood, dwarfs give metal)
The elves were just because I already had dwarfs so why not elves that stop the humans from expansion. The elves are highly magical creatures that trade with no one, and defend the forests, their weaponry consists of sticks that when reinforced by elven magic they turn into spears, bows and arrows, etc.
But maybe my idea just suck and I should end myself. I mean, why not all 3 just be humans? I just thought of it as dwarfs, isolated underground, forgot they came from the surface once and now called themselves dwarfs, and the elves thinks they know better and have now detached themselves from humans as a whole, and prefer the company of animals as their kin.
>>47668256
Nigel! Fetch my sub-machine-gun!
>>47664407
Because it can't be said enough
Kender
>>47668733
Like what?
Technological stagnation, not accounting for the social disruption/evolution magic could manifest, Kender.
>>47669366
>Chaotic evil
Fuck that bullshit.
>>47664625
What if they're spiders and their species is one of the majority of spider species that has sexual dimorphism in favor of the female?
>>47669424
Would magic stagnate technological advancement?
>>47669302
So you like your games to be retarded shit?
>>47664407
Most of my fantasy RPG pet-peeves have to do with mechanical systems in the game rather than the world.
However I have a few things that tick me off.
>Magic fucking everywhere.
>Being able to just walk into a store and buy a magic wand worth tens of thousands of Gp.
>Gold Pieces as the coin of the realm. Gold was rare and EXTREMELY valuable. Most coin would be minted of silver.
>Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds and other entire races of tribal humanoids who always attack settlements for no reason and exist purely to be slaughtered for easy XP/to show off how cool the protagonist is
>Authors who do not understand the difference between a short sword, a longsword, an arming sword and a bastard sword.
>Technological stasis lasting thousands of years with NO changes whatsoever.
>Tolkein rip-off races. All the ways to do Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs in a unique or interesting way have already been done. Are we Humans not varied enough? We need more humans only settings in games.
>>47669651
>bait.jpeg
>>47669752
>No you.jpeg
>>47669651
Reality is illiberal.
>>47669748
>are humans not diverse enough
Well, yeah. We are. The issue would be stating. No one wants to sit there and be the ass who stats asians with +2 wis and int or blacks with -2cha and wis or something.
>>47669912
That's why you give stat bonuses for "cultures" rather than "races" and explain that the bonuses are the result of growing up in a specific environment rather than genetic. That way a person from a different race who was raised in that culture, would get the same bonuses regardless of the color of their skin.
>>47669941
You sure about that?
>>47669941
>not giving two bonuses, one for culture and one for genetic predisposition
>>47664629
I never actually read that before, fuck/thank you for that. So much cringe.
"advanced" races that seclude themselves, it always ends up being the DM's special snowflake that can't be touched
>>47670028
Agreed, not playing them as xenophobic total dicks is doing it wrong.
>>47669853
Said the retard that does not know anything about reality.
Modern bourgeois liberal ideology.
>>47664407
>different species being able to reproduce with each other
>monoculture species
>Different species living in the same societies but never taking on cultural aspects of each other
>Magic being something everyone can learn
>magic being widespread but not affecting society in any meaninful way
>militaries have existed hundreds of years alongside giant monsters, flyers and magical enemies but have no effective countermeasures and tactics against them
>trying to justify peace between species as if they were modern day races
>humans being among the weakest species in the setting but somehow dominating the world
>>47671033
the rest i agree with but other species CAN reproduce with each other. It happens a good bit in plants mostly but we've documented it birds, lizards, fish, and slugs. We even had an experiment where a human female had an egg artificially inseminated with monkey sperm and successfully impregnated but hitler shut it down hard after like 2 weeks.
>>47671134
who is hitler in this metaphorical sentence?
>>47671134
Even if that was true (its not), that is a freak experiment and an outlier example. Also has very little to do with what i was talking about, I mean shit like half-orcs and half-elves being possible.
>>47671237
Impregnating women is my fetish. So of course I would allow female humans to get pregnant by raiding orcs.
>>47671134
>but we've documented it birds
Despite living in a part of Scotland that is infested with seagulls, ducks, swans and pigeons, I have never seen a crossbreed of any of those.
Which actually surprises me considering that ducks are total rapists.
>>47664407
Guns. I think magic is pure bullshit in general, but I understand different strokes for different folks. This steam-punk post-victorian "Oh ya well we have muskets and shotguns and snipers that are hand-forged by legendary magical artisans" bullshit is just so anachronistic and anti-martial that it makes me sperg everywhere.
On the other hand, I fucking love janky ass old-timey robots, which creates an interesting dynamic.
>>47671322
Is it weird that creatures catching and keeping women as breeding stock is my fetish, but the thought of actually pregnant women disgusts me?
>>47671237
The prevalence of that makes more sense if you take into account that Elves and Men are at least related sub-species in Tolkien with the major differences hinging on spiritual power rather than biology. And Orcs are just Elves who got defaced by Morgoth. There are only 3 or so instances of Elves mingling with Men, and Saruman's Uruk-hai are implied to have been enhanced by hybridization with Men
>>47671364
>anti-martial that it makes me sperg everywhere.
But isn't giving martials more neat toys to play with a good thing?
>>47664407
Steampunk anything.
I just can't stand the aesthetic, cogshit or not.
>>47671365
All of that is disgusting you degenerate. Which I should probably add a bit more to my list
>races created solely to cater to Fetishes
>>47670773
You're only proving my point.
>>47671409
I'm a simple man. I just want to activate my barbarian rage hit things really hard with my fancy axe. I find I have to make a pretty good build to keep up with all the minmax omnicaster faggots in general, but when any class can pick up a legendary dickshot pistol, I can't help but feel a little cheated.
>>47671033
>different species being able to reproduce with each other
Kind of curious, what if there's expressly a reason for it? Namely that elves, dwarves, and orcs were made/remade by their gods to be compatible with humans (and eachother) to lesson depopulation issues in preparation for basically Ragnarok of the setting?
>>47671191
Literally hitler.
Soviet russia did a lot of human sperm in nonhuman eggs as well.
The main issue they found is the sperm proteins aren't compatible with the nonhuman eggs.
>>47671423
Your point is about big of moron you are?
>>47671451
Then your barbarian gets alchemical rocket boots and and a clockwork extendo axe and fuck up the gunner. Casters are pretty terrible with guns.
>>47665718
Why's that?
>>47669417
Like someone who played Mass Effect and now he thinks a Mass Effect campaign would be the coolest thing ever. It invariably makes for a bad game.
>>47671523
Wow, that sounds fun as fuck. Maybe I've just had a shitty DM for a while. In my experience rouges just turn into megafaggots with instant stealth crits from the shadows, and then my awful dm adds a flat boost to everything's stats, which outclasses my poor cookie cutter builds.
>>47669519
Yes and no. The presence of magic makes certain technological advancements much more difficult.
Example: the production of widespread black powder weapons becomes very difficult since any asshole who can throw a spark is a major threat to your powder trains.
You wouldn't really see a stagnation of technology wholesale, but you'd instead see development down different avenues than what we have on Earth, usually with technology and magic advancing at about the same pace.
>>47666049
As someone who likes and runs campaigns in Dragonlance and have never had a problem with kenders, I agree with you.
>>47664407
Medieval stasis.
>>47665664
>literal orky "might is right" feudalism, which actually existed for hundreds of years across the globe makes as much sense as political theory which has literally never happened
This hook hurts my face
>>47671641
I've had someone play a kender and every chance he got he tried to steal something from someone but just blatantly shoving his hands in their pockets and rummaging around.
No skill check. Just starts pocket diving on anyone who looks like they have money. Says his character likes "shiny things." And has learned to spot people who carry those things. It should come as no surprise that he become violently angry when you challenged his cultures teachings and beliefs and he would stab first and loot the body of "shiny things" later. anytime you called him on his bullshit he'd pull out a printout of their race description with the relevant bits highlighted. Took way to long for the DM to realize that was all his character was going to be before kicking him out of the table.
>>47671365
Not weird at all. I like impregnating women, not women impregnated. Those baby bellies are disgusting.
>>47671895
Of course they're disgusting. Its like an evolutionarily inbuilt revulsion reflex like we have with shit and rot. It tells you to immediately get as far away as possible for your own good.
>>47664407
>Major human religious organization is a cartoonish Not!Catholicism complete with burning scholars and corruption
>every other faith is shown in setting to be 100% true or "in tune with the universe"
ENOUGH
