Why don't intelligent monkeys or apes show up in more fantasy settings?
![5127533-5320881822-sun_w[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zqXpOhp.jpg "5127533-5320881822-sun_w[1].jpg")
Retro meme.
![karmans-army[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EYkAtqG.jpg "karmans-army[1].jpg")
Maybe not fantasy but it's a niche scifi trope.
![eOMQjQf[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/znpfIvb.jpg "eOMQjQf[1].jpg")
They didn't talk in this one but they sure were obnoxious.
>>47662347
I wonder if I will be banned.
>>47662347
>inb4 /pol/
>>47662474
If we do... I'll probably get more reading/video games done in the three days.
![50031_w_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ccTr2Yn.jpg "50031_w_1[1].jpg")
>>47662417
Also in althistory Nazi Occult armies.
>>47662446
>>47662499
Would be neat if more than the first two issues were translated.
>>47662347
Not sure if SRS.
I mean, pretty much every setting has humans.
>>47662787
Seconded.
>>47662347
They show up once in a while in Groo.
Fear of racism
>>47662347
they are called dwarfs
>>47663842
They call themselves "Ooks."
Lesser races pronounce it "Orcs."
I have a soft spot for these monsters.
>>47663921
Would climb/10
>>47662347
> intelligent monkeys
You mean humans?
>>47662347
They are called humans.
Settings can have merfolk, catfolk, dog people, and so on. Humans are ape-people.
>>47664488
>>47664188
>>47663276
No need to chimp out.
>>47664188
No.
>>47662446
source?
>>47662347
Because most fantasy takes place in quasi European medieval settings, which tend to be short on monkeys and apes in general.
>>47664676
Kouya ni Kemono Doukokusu
>>47664918
Is the monkey the biker girl that the dude had sex with?
It's one of my dreams to one day run a fantasy game of Terra Primate.
Aren't humans basically intelligent apes?
Red guards excist
>>47662347
Elder Scrolls has them, they live in Valenwood shave themselves and try to act like High Elves, so they're a bunch of cunts.
I want to say early editions of D&D also had intelligent apes as well.
>>47665091
Nah, she's a different character.
>>47662446
I want to fuck that ape.
>>47665341
Humans are intelligent apes, yes.
>>47662347
Because nobody wants to play black people except in modern settings.
>>47662347
Because tolkein.
Those damn ape-demons, I tell you.
They do :^)
>>47662347
I am p sure it happened a ton in the Conan stories
>>47668512
erectwario.jpg
>>47662347
Das raysist mayne
>>47662787
>>47663276
If I could translate I would...
>>47668512
That's porn, isn't it?
>>47663276
>>47662347
I was fucking around with a system, and thought it'd be funny to have "half-humans" alongside the standard "half-elves" and "half-orcs".
the trouble with that is that it means coming up with a general "place" or "niche" for humans.
Thought I had something at one point with the idea that humans were "monkey people"... then I followed that logic to its ends and realised that monkey people would:
be really agile (+2 dex, etc...)
be really sociable (+2 CHA)
Live in forests and wooded areas...
It was then that I realised that tolkien's wood elves are basically just a rehash of the monkey people from the indian mahayana!
The elves were monkeys all along!
>>47664918
>sex, but no porn
I'm sad.
>>47662347
>Why doesn't intelligent humans show up in more fantasy settings?
Oh my god you stupid faggots he obviously meant anthropmorphic monkeys or humanoids with more ape features than humans, why do you have to be so fucking pedantic?
Well I'm out of monkeys.
>>47672909
FUNNY MONKEYS HOO HOO HAA HAA
>>47662347
D&D Campaign settings with intelligent apes.
As far as Ive been able to tell, all of them with the exception of Ravenloft, and I think Darksun.
Pathfinder's Golarion
There's like 3 of them. One is a player race. No, I'm not talking about the Mwangi.
Outside of D&D, ape races tend to be fairly rare though. Intelligent apes are a mainstay of comics though for some strange reason. And with Overwatch's popularity and it featuring a playable ape characters, we should see a resurgence in their popularity.
>>47662480
You know saying that summons the /pol/ack?
Protip: I prefer Conan's take on a sentient "apeman".
>>47671592
It's Po-Ju. That should answer your question
Does anyone else remember that cartoon from the 90s, with the monkey space crew?
>>47664136
>quad nips
>>47665341
>>47667221
>humans
>intelligent
>implying
>>47672909
>zidane
worst monkey
>>47662347
they do, they're called 'humans'
>Apes are simply men who became apes for political reasons. If you make certain political choices and end up in exile then you just become an ape. Therefore all apes have strong political views which are very important to them and this depends on the kinds of Ape.
>>47662347
I play in Glorantha so this isn't a problem for me.
Fallen London has the super creepy Pentecost Apes, which become more intelligent (or at least more human) by stealing souls.
I'm immensely fond of the planet of the apes reboot and the depiction of their tribal but well-working society, I want to see more of that sort of thing.
>>47676435
That post alone got me to buy The Art of Not Being Governed.
I still need to get around to reading it.
>>47662577
Technically, Kaiser-era occult armies.
Germany in the 1910s, and the USSR in the 1920s, devoted resources to researching whether great apes could be made into super soldiers. The answer, obviously, was 'no'.
Despite the common tropes, the Nazis were uninterested in uplifting apes, for reasons that should be fairly obvious after a moment's consideration of their thoughts on race.
>>47676379
I just saved the picture, what's she from?
>>47677525
>the Nazis were uninterested in uplifting apes, for reasons that should be fairly obvious after a moment's consideration of their thoughts on race.
I've never encountered someone, or read any fiction, who thought the Nazis wanted to UPLIFT apes. Just use them as disposable freaky science cannon fodder.
>>47670700
It did happen regularly in Conan & other pulp, which is a big part of why not having them in settings is so weird & dumb.
>>47674253
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Simian_%26_the_Space_Monkeys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufWiRh6HiXg
The girl monkey was pretty cute too.
>>47677825
>she
>>47678529
>she
Sure, why not.
>>47678529
That's a dude?
... It's staying in the monstergirl folder.
>>47673775
It's worth pointing out that this one is kind of exceptional for Po-Ju, because straight shota, he usually does just the "regular" shota.
Also there's apparently OVAs of this now. I'm penciling them for the weekend.
>>47678591
>>47673775
What's the story called?
>>47678622
read the filename
>>47668512
What exactly is supposed to be ape-like about her? That's an elf with pointy teeth, anon.
Because highly intelligent monkeys that kept monkey strength would be pretty hard to deal with.
>>47678573
It's Zidane from Final Fantasy 9.
>>47678663
Zidane? ...Do they imply that football players are apes?
>>47678819
While some apes do their share of "acting", I don't think you can teach them to fake injuries.
>>47678572
Isn't Zidane a man?
>>47678873
I bet an ape could give a decent headbutt.
>>47678910
Yes.
Fanart doesn't care.
>>47668313
OP said intelligent monkeys.
>>47678635Her libido
>>47662347
Because that's a sci-fi trope.
What would you say should be the characteristics of intelligent monkeys?
>>47679905
I think it depends on how much their society reflects their biology and mating habits.
Do they become monogamous or do they continue to exhibit extreme sexual dimorphism (or trimorphism with orangutans) and penchant for large harems of females and sub-males that the alpha-males compete for?
>>47665097
Shame that Terra Primate never really made it. I suppose that compared to zombies the idea really is sort of more limited.
(Shame that Eden Studios went and quietly died, in general)
>>47681419
>(Shame that Eden Studios went and quietly died, in general)
They're experiencing a minor rebound. Supposedly Beyond Human is finally coming out after almost a decade in development hell, then there's talk of an OGL for Unisystem.
This is why.
>>47662347
Generally because either:
* It's seen as too silly.
* They're seen as too furry.
* We already have orcs.
>>47682645
What settings have ape-like orcs?
>>47677825
That's dude anon, and he's the Protag from FFIX. He's a member of a bandit group that masquerades as a traveling theater.
He's also an artificial life form who was created as the second version of a sewer of death in order to divert souls and life from one planet to a dead planet
The reason he looks bishy is because FFIX had a Baroque theme to it.
In the Dissidia Fighting Game, he's a pretty good air fighter for beginners.
>>47686860
Of course I forget pic
Chronicles of the Void has an entire race of Kung-Fu Monkey People.
>>47679773
what game is this?
>>47688622
Infinity. Sci fi skirmish game by Corvus Belli. Phenomenal models
>>47689631
Easily some of the best models I've ever seen but I feel that there is a lot of shooping in the company's photos of them.
>>47681656
Doesn't Cinematic Unisystem already have it? I know that's not what's running Terra Primate, but it is the system used for the some of the company's more historically successful games (namely the Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG).
I dunno, I sure want a game that grinds to a halt every 30 minutes so someone can make references to damn dirty ape paws being taken off of someone or quests being derailed by the clear evidence that the apes dindu nuffin and/or wuz kangs.
>>47662347
They used to, but the whole "subhuman beast men" theme is kind of dated.
You see a lot of that stuff in like, pulp-era stories, Conan, Burroughs etc, and in vintage fantasy art like Frazetta.
But I guess the reason is that it's just not very interesting or scary any more.
One of our cultural icons is a movie about a penismonster that procreates by raping a guy in the mouth by proxy.
"APE THAT TALKS, LIKE A MAN!" isn't very novel to the average person.
Besides, where do you put the man-apes? In the jungle? And deal with all the people screaming that they're a parody of black people? No thank you.
>>47690345
Do self-titled kings count?How about Great Magnificent Sages, Wise and Beautiful and Equal of Heaven?
>>47690465
Pretty much this, or the "twist" (which has been used so much it's practically a cliche by itself) of making the apes hyper intelligent and culturally/technologically superior to humans. Gorillas seem particularly prone to this in fiction (which is odd, since chimps are definitely way smarter).
>>47690467
Sun Wukong may have been a pompous dick, but self-titled he wasn't. The other monkeys of Huaguoshan crowned him king for finding the source of pure waters.
>>47690479
Orangutans knocked chimps from the top spot back in 2006 or something though, there was a big study about it. It was in the Brain, Behavior and Evolution journal.
>>47690636
But orangutans aren't nearly as social. It's hard to imagine them advancing as a culture by themselves, at least using any human precedence as a theoretical basis.
>>47662347
>ape race
The allegory would be too obvious to some groups
>>47690465
>One of our cultural icons is a movie about a penismonster that procreates by raping a guy in the mouth by proxy.
75% sure you mean Alien, 25% The Thing.
>>47690746
I'm not arguing that they're more social, I'm just pointing out that they're smarter.
The reason that gorillas are popular as the smart or uplifted ape race is that
A: they're big and impressive compared to chimps (even though all apes are hella strong for their size, yes, I know) and that they're calmer and less hyper (at least perceived that way.)
Chimps are a bunch of football hooligans, gorillas seem more dignified.
>>47662577
Apes are more of a soviet thing in alt-history. Nazi occult armies would be genetically/cybernetically engineered super-aryan super soldiers.
But yeah intelligent apes are oddly rare in fantasy given that they're prominent part of Chinese mythology. Applies even to Japanese fantasy despite it being heavily based on Chinese stuff.
>>47690636
>Orangutans knocked chimps from the top spot back in 2006
Did they get to top and had to stop?
>>47662347
Humans and by extension elves, dwarves and most orcs
>>47690041
Doesn't change the fact that they're pretty gorgeous models.
And the rules are tight too.
>>47662347
Intelligent monkeys are all over the damned place! filthy mon-keigh…
>>47691078
Fuck off Eldar.
>>47690901
Soviet Apes are more of a thing in alt-histories by people who know of the work of Dr. Ilya Ivanovich Ivonov:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
Most modern techqniques of artificial insemination trace themselves back to techniques he developed for horses, but he was also focused heavily on using artificial insemination to produce a human-ape hybrid.
His experiments using human sperm and female orangutangs never succeeded and the death of his last orangutang in the russian civil war put a halt to his plans to start putting orangutang sperm into human women.
>>47672039
Well, you said it yourself. They're stupid pedantic faggots.
>>47690847
>I'm not arguing that they're more social, I'm just pointing out that they're smarter.
Shut up racist
#chimplivesmatter
>>47673684
I prefer Conan's take on everything
>>47691822
Yes.
When they do, don't call them monkeys.
>>47690636
>>47690746
This. In the long run, using only what we know of our own early history as a species for comparison, if we had to put money on which of the two would "make the leap" from running around naked in random to figuring out shit like "proto-agriculture" and "fire", money will be on the chimps almost every single time. When you're dealing with innumerable generations over thousands of years, a slightly higher individual capability for telling apart shapes pales in front of the potential for retaining discoveries and advancements within a society. While orangutans are individually extremely inventive and capable (just look at their nests), agriculture, for example, isn't something you can just "eureka" out of the blue, no matter how smart you are, and no matter how much progress an individual orangutan ever makes towards figuring out "hey, isn't it odd trees seem to sprout more frequently around where I shit?", it all goes away once they die. Chimps would have a higher odd of saying "hey, isn't it odd trees CONSISTENTLY seem to sprout where our tribe's been shitting for the past century?"
>>47694674
Chimps have a very critical intellectual flaw though, which is that they literally don't understand that other chimps don't know everything that they do. The concept of secrets or ignorance are lost on them. And while chimps can (and do) learn by watching other chimps do things, it would never occur to them to teach, even to their own children.
>>47696216
Easier to evolve out of than an almost completely solitary lifestyle.
Why is it that intelligent monkeys and apes appear more often in sci-fi settings than fantasy ones, baring direct references to Sun Wukong? Medieval Europeans knew what monkeys were, as did the ancients.
It kind of seems like as soon as you get some advanced tech or go into space, monkeys pop up. Even 40k has Jokaero. Infinity mentioned earlier has one monkey-man and a whole race of ape-like Morats (though that may be because of their red faces and white hair, like those Japanese macaques).
>>47696881
Most fantasy you'll get to read would be European, and Europe isn't exactly teeming with monkeys. If they appear, it will be either from or somewhere exotic, so you might as well go all the way and make them Chinese kung fu mystics.
Egypt kinda has important baboons, with them being Thoth's sacred animals, but the ibis is a lot more iconic even then.
>>47662347
because most fantasy settings are Tolkien ripoffs without an ounce of actual creativity
>>47696917
>Europe isn't exactly teeming with monkeys
No, but medieval Europeans have travelled to exotic places or bought exotic animals from foreign traders. Monkeys do feature in medieval art and they often look more accurate than elephants for example.
Also Europe used to have lions, maybe there were some European monkeys driven to extinction.
Why the sci-fi connection though. Do you think NASA sending chimps to space has anything to do with it?
>>47696988
>If they appear, it will be either from or somewhere exotic
Path of Exile has to have my favorite monkey people
>>47662347
Generic response: "What about humans?"
Though no seriously, I always wanted to explore a setting where humans were just ape/monkey men and you also had dog men cat men etc running about.
>>47690847
>even though all apes are hella strong for their size
Except humans.
Gloratha RQ baboons.
