>In this setting, everything is made from the greek elements
>However, these fundamental partics are joined with point-like spirits
>these spirits create nearly identical behavior to real world chemistry
>However, in the hands of a common person, the spirits denature
>Thus you have an actual class of alchemists
>Alchemists are the only people who can refine and use gun powder
>Gun are actually remarkably advanced, early revolvers and what not
>But alchemists are barely a single percentage of the population
>So the world is still in quasi medieval stasis
>But there are also heroes running around with guns and swords fighting these monsters
I think getting down to subatomic particles is overbaking it. I've made that same mistake before, trying to overthink worldbuilding. I realized that players simply don't notice or care. Better to use broad genre conventions, even better, ask them what they want to make and fit their ideas into the world. If someone wants to play gun-alchemist, great. If not, then something else. But if you already make the world into Gun-Alchemy Land and the players have different ideas, they are going to be board and you run the risk of make cool Gun Alchemist DMNPCs and ignoring the players.
Not a bad mystic bullshit explanation. Not necessary, IMO, but if it's the sort of thing you and your group enjoy, go for it.
>>47624289
>electrons are spirits
>using this only to make black powder
Lame. Be a necromancer instead. talk to the spirits. enforce complete molecular control of matter, using your own power to catalyze chemical reactions.
Have a particularly difficult enemy to deal with? simply transmute all the oxygen in his lungs into ozone.
Lost in the woods without food? Find a stick, and transmute the cellulose of the wood into sucrose/starch.
If you have such a powerful control over the very laws of nature, why would you use them only to make guns?
>>47624446
Maybe because I don't want to jerk off all over wizards like you do. I didn't say they had control over spirits, I said they don't denature, as in they behave like reality.
>>47624446
Stricter limitations allow for more interesting utilizations and creativity without making everything else irrelevant.
>>47624495
If we are going to admit molecular alchemy why are chemical reactions and plants off limits but Guns are fine?
>>47624573
Because one works well in a game, and the other doesn't. Also, as was mentioned above, you're willfully misinterpreting what OP actually said.
>>47624668
>Because one works well in a game, and the other doesn't.
Lol, why wouldn't transmuting magic "work well in a game"? It's pretty common in several already existing games.
If OP is proposing "quasi medieval" world but with rare gunpowder, then big whoop.
>>47624476
Seems like a rather roundabout way to put guns in fantasy, IMO. Much better ways to put guns in fantasy other than rewriting the laws of physics.
>>47624495
It has the most stringent restriction of all though: the laws of chemistry and physics.
>>47624668
I could easily use a mechanic like this in several systems. it could fit easily into Time Wizards and WoD, and probably not that difficult to do in GURPS.
Plus, this shit would make a really coolQuest.
Also, that's another anon, anon.
>>47624740
>Introducing magic
>Not already rewriting the laws of physics
>Alchemists can merely achieve what is actually possible
>This is still amazing due to rarity
>This is worse than "lol just change whatever man. I make his bones FOOF :^)"
You're not very bright.
>>47624289
>OP Too casual and eurocentric for superior Chinese elements
>>47624793
What even is this level of butthurt flailing?
We get it, you love magic guns, that doesn't make other forms of magic within RPGs some impossible ridiculous concept.
>>47624837
>anon is too basic for the persian alchemical elements
>>47624850
Anon, you are literally retarded
Please leave.
>>47624793
I'm not suggesting god powers, anon. It obviously wouldn't be complete control over matter. You'd be limmited by several factors, such as range, how quickly you can transmute, how precisely you can transmute, how much you can transmute before resting, etcetera.
These limmitations would, however, lesten over time as you level up and improve, so I didn't think they were important to mention.
At earlier levels, you could turn some saltwater into hydrochloric acid, and throw acid-flasks. Bone-FOOFing comes later.
>>47624852
>anon is too basic to create his own elements
My group's current setting uses the elements of Force, Form, Essence, and Change in its cosmology.
>>47624947
>Go into thread to talk about X
>Talks about Y instead
>>47625011
OP proposed an alchemical gunpowder system and the other guy counterproposed more generalized alchemy.
>>47624289
Not bad. Gives a reason why gun people have such terrible magic defense and are generally incapable of magic, while also limiting technological revolutions.
I'd still tweak some things if I were to ever use it, but it's certainly a direction I didn't think of, thanks.
>>47625063
No, the other guy proposed free transmutation, which is completely different
>>47624793
>>Introducing magic
>>Not already rewriting the laws of physics
What if magic is artificially bolted onto normal world?
>>47625107
>>47625011
basically what >>47625063 said, but tell you what, lets talk about guns.
So, personally, I think OP's example is a stupid idea for 2 main reasons
1: it seems unusual for guns to be at such an advanced state of development, but the factories/workshosp that produce them are so primitive.
2: for every chemical with the same complexity as gunpowder to denature simply by being around a peasant, life would never develop, yet alone reach the medieval era. Wood would spontaneously burn in their presence, DNA would mutate rapidly, basic metalworking would be impossible; it all just doesn't make sense.
For the first problem, I have an idea, but it has some problems.
It could be guilds of alchemists working together to run a factory. Problem is, these alchemist guilds would likely have more influence than any other organization, and would eventually take the role of kings and knights, which would significantly damage the medieval feel of the setting.
>>47625212
Assuming it doesn't apply to life, because it's protected by the soul or something, then nothing at all would change. They had no chemicals that had to be used on a common basis by common people.
>>47625268
That still doesn't help deal with corpses or other dead things, I.E. wood and food.
Furthermore, how quickly does this stuff denature? If it's immediate or very quick, denaturizaton of that speed would make life even more impossible.
However, it its a delayed reaction, taking several hours or even days, then it wouldn't be difficult to arm peasants with guns in the first place. All you'd have to do is keep the peasants away from their ammo until the battle began.
This would basically cause warfare to be in the WWI era, but without the trenches, since neither army would have the time to sit around in the trenches letting their bullets denature, and an all-alchemist army would be too few to field.
>>47625385
Wood wouldn't be a concern, because it's not denaturing into the periodic table of elements, but into a mixture of earth, water, and fire that looks like wood.
Similar for food.
The world still worked with those elements, just in very crude ways, which makes it difficult to be a peasant.
And giving peasants guns would be a waste of money even if you could, alchemists are expensive compared to bows and arrows and crossbows. It would happen, but arquebus formations happened to. Shit was expensive.
>>47625497
No, wood would degrade into water, carbon, and CO2. If this reaction looks familiar, that's because its the same chemical reaction as burning. depending on how fast the reaction, this would either mean spontaneous combustion, or, much more likely, a sort of "rusting" effect on wood.
Either way, this would make the concept of buildings rather impossible, since whatever shack you lived in would keep on degrading and needing repairs.
Food would have an interesting effect. Either it would be a lot harder to feed people, or it would be a lot easier. It all depends on weather the denaturing process obeys the laws of thermodynamics and the conservation of energy.
Frankly, I highly doubt this setting would make it past the stone age, yet alone the medieval era.
>>47625632
You're a fucking idiot.
>>47624289
>>In this setting, everything is made from the greek elements
>>However, these fundamental partics are joined with point-like spirits
>>these spirits create nearly identical behavior to real world chemistry
It can't degrade into CO2 if CO2 doesn't exist.
>>47625674
the ancient greeks had a theory of elements very similar to what we have today, with them being small and indivisable fundamental substances. these were the GREEK elements.
The elements invented by Plato and Aristotle were called the CLASSICAL elements, not the greek elements.
Plus, if OP uses words like "denature" and "nearly identical behavior to real world chemistry," I'm gonna assume he didn't make a mistake and didn't mean to say classical elements.
>greek elements
You should also have Wet and Dry as natures of the elements.
>not making a new element system for the fantasy world
