MTG Legacy General.
Got a legacy constructed event happening next week to celebrate the launch of EMA, 100% proxy allowed, what should I play?
high tide
Doomsday all day every day
infect mothafucka
>>47622032
lmao no, thats the most boring deck ever.
>>47622074
yeah no, you're playing mono color version or something?
>>47621971
I second this. >>47622015
Or you could just play Eldrazi if you don't want to make decisions.
>>47621971
if 100% proxy Lands is probably a strong choice
>>47622074
>each turn intimidating your opponent with a single 1/1
>or even with an empty board
>cheap counterspells up in the ass
>boring
you couldn't even get it to work nigga
>>47621971
Oops All Spells, of course.
>>47621971
Squirrels
>>47621971
>what should I play?
if you don't actually play legacy, you should sleeve up eldrazi stompy. very straightforward chalice deck that requires no knowledge of the legacy metagame to perform and has a realistic price-point if you decide you want to have real cards.
your decision tree goes
>turn 1: sol land, chalice on 1 your go
>turn 2-infinity: play dudes, beat face
>>47622304
Pretty much this, Eldrazi preys on a weakness in Legacy decks in that they don't really do combat, it's an easy win for a few more months until the crowd finally has too accept it's not getting a ban and expand their removal suite, from there the deck will probably get a little more techy.
If you're looking for a fun deck OP could look at stuff like Deathblade, it feels like a Modern deck so in terms of pacing he should be fine, just spend a week playing around with Brainstorm.
>>47622015
Can't really recommend this deck to anyone. It's one sided masturbation deck that's not even that strong despite being one of the hardest ones to play through.
>>47624784
its best matchup is also lands.
>>47622833
Most good players have already adapted. I'm playing 2 decays and 1 dismember in grixis delver, and that feels really strong.
I also play painter. The Eldrazi matchup is the most slanted matchup in legacy. Its more than 80% in my experience.
>>47622833
Deathblade has a horrible manabase, and frankly I don't think it's a very good deck. I'd recommend starting with something like Grixis Delver or Sneak and Show; something with interaction and decision trees
Play Aluren! Silly combo value deck.
Thoughts on Shardless BUG?Considering picking it up as a deck.In real life.With real cards.
>>47628280
Solid deck is solid. Seriously have never seen it so horrible in a tournament. Just be wary of blood moon as your mana base is vulnerable.
>>47628456
>>47628280
I think its a downright bad deck. Here's why.
1. No cheap interaction, so the combo matchup is pretty awful
Shardless agent is a powerful card. It imposes a strict deckbuilding restriction. Not being able to run spell pierce and flusterstorm cut you off having meaningful stack fights. Being an Abrupt Decay deck makes you naturally soft to elves as well.
2. Godawful mana
Similarly to Deathblade, the manbase is justified by having a Deathrite in play. When you don't have one, the mana is very tight. When the opponent is also pressuring your manabase, the deck can just crumble.
3. No great matchups
Many Shardless players claim that Miracles and Delver are good matchups. In practice, they end up being about 50/50. Delver can apply pressure and disruption, and Miracles has started playing more hard card advantage. Lands is pretty horrific. Death and Taxes is unfavored. So the deck has a horrific matchup against every combo deck, and bad matchups against some control decks and some. Its never heavily favored against top tier decks. (note: I do not consider Eldrazi a tier 1 deck)
All in all its a pretty solid tier 1.5-tier2 deck, but I would rather be playing BUG Delver and have a great combo than play a deck that has only very slight percentage advantages against midrange decks.
I have a cradle already should I build elves? Is elves good? Or should I give in and build dredge?
>>47629872
Elves is a top notch deck, I'd play that over dredge any day.
I am hoping some peeps pick up legacy in my area. I've never played legacy, but I got the cards for TES and ANT.
We'll see how bad I end up sucking.
>>47630012
To be fair, goldfish ANT and live person ANT are pretty similar
>>47629837
I thought the solid force behind Shardless is that it's about 50/50 against most matchups. It's definitely not too bad against combo as seize/hymn can save the day. Fair matchups are all about if shardless can stabilize before opponent runs out of gas as shardless itself will have all the tools to recover from bad position in a long run. I can't see why DnT is unfavored, it seems quite close one to me.
>>47630126
The question is, will I play ANT or TES?
>>47629837
>I do not consider Eldrazi a tier 1 deck
Except it is.
Play Cephalid Breakfast.
>>47621971
Play enchantress, the most fun deck, you sit , watching your opponent struggles as he just can't do anything to you. fuck memedrazi, goblins, merfolk, elves... except you are wanting for ant/oops all spells.
>>47621971
Bomberman or dredge.
>>47631798
ANT is the easier of the two, so play that.
>>47622015
third for this
>>47621971
Play 4 horsemen. It's real fun for real men.
>>47632662
ANT does seem a little easier from my goldfishing, TES seems like burning wish can get you a lot of cool stuff out of the sideboard and be very powerful, but considering I don't even know all the legacy cards and don't know what to put in the sideboard I suppose it's not going to do me much good.
I am preparing to miss a bunch of Cabal Therapies either way.
>>47633050
>don't know what to put in the sideboard
There's a website dedicated to TES, which may help you.
>http://www.theepicstorm.com/
>I am preparing to miss a bunch of Cabal Therapies either way.
If it's blind, name the card that beats your hand, not necessarily what they might have in their hand. Look at MTGGoldfish or something and study some of the decks you expect to face.
>>47633155
Well I'm just saying that I have no idea what the local meta looks like.
>>47632997
post it
Play Pox you fag. Only real men play Pox.
>>47633276
Expect Miracles, Delver, Eldrazi, D&T, and Storm at the very least.
>>47633374
It's a combo deck built around Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb. The monolith taps for 3, and can be untapped for 3. This gives you infinite self-mills with Mesmeric Orb. First you get three Narcomoeba. That's the easy part. Then you need to get Dread Return, Sharuum, and Blasting Station into your graveyard, but NOT Emrakul. If you mill Emrakul before getting the other three, you must start over. And since it doesn't fit the game's definition a loop, it must all be done manually. Again and again. Until your opponent calls the judge and you (correctly, by the rules) get a match loss for wasting time, or you assemble the three cards, Return Sharuum to bring back Blasting station, which combos with the Narcomoebas that Emrakul infinitely recycles to deal infinite damage.
The deck is fast and powerful, but is basically impossible to play because of the fact that it's not a 'demonstrable loop'. Even playing a single match with it and having to manually repeat self-milling yourself, over and over, then reshuffle every time Emrakul comes up before the other three (which, odds are, will happen a damn lot), is an exercise in masochism of the highest degree.
>>47621971
Play Green & Taxes, D&T with Pridemages, Sylvan Library, and green hate cards out of the side.
It dumpsters the mono-w D&T decks and gains points against the fair blue decks. I've been having a blast with it for a while in my local shop.
>>47635163
cant you just use sidisi so you're still gaining value from shuffling your deck with emrakul
>>47630940
I speak as an ANT/Sneak and Show player when I say that Shardless has a bad combo matchup. Their only instant speed interaction is force, so most of the time you can jam it with 1 protection spell backup.
If Shardless had 50/50 across the board I would endorse it, but it's 50/50 across 2/3rds of decks and 20/80 against 1/3rd. I don't think that's where you want to be
>>47632050
Its "good matchups" are all either very close or unfavored now that people have adjusted. Except Storm. Which is a very good matchup for Eldrazi.
>>47635523
Also, Shardless lacks a fast clock, which makes discard much less effective then it is in a Delver shell
>>47630940
Death and Taxes packs a lot of mana denial, and Decay is slow against Mom/the deck in general. Shardless Agent doesn't match up well against Thalia.
In general, 3drops.dek struggles against Thorn/Port/Waste.dek
>>47635411
Sidisi has made its way into a lot of the recent versions. It also helps with judge calls, as it's much more proactive. The problem is a)4-mana and b)no haste makes it not especially reliable, as opposed to the cheaper/faster and more difficult to disrupt Blasting Station plan.
>>47621971
My LGS had an event for a box of Eternal Masters. Went 2-1 and split the box 4 ways in the top 4. $30 buy in.
> played dredge
>went 2-0 vs Miracles
>mfw
48th for best waifu
Play stax or doomsday, or even dredge, swim in casual fag tears forever
>>47636112
I don't see how consistently dying before resolving Doomsday will piss of causals
Hi, I've been playing 4 Crystal Vein in my MUD Metalworker deck, thoughts? It helps resolving a crushing T1 Monolith or Chalice on 1, though it's pretty bad versus countermagic.
>>47636532
its easy, casuals hate dragging ass in games, they really really do, it annoys them, especially if you do shit on purpose, also:
>being bad enough to not consistantly win because you can actually do math in your head
git gud scrub
>>47637186
I play storm. Doomsday is like storm, but bad. If you assume you win every game that you resolve a Doomsday, the deck still sucks.
>>47635523
>Its "good matchups" are all either very close or unfavored now that people have adjusted.
Tiers are based on usage, and Eldrazi is the second most played deck in Legacy behind Legacy. And as much as you think it's true, it still hasn't stopped Eldrazi from placing in paper events.
>>47637586
> Legacy behind Legacy
Behind Miracles*
>>47637586
I base my tiers on strength against the metagame. Eldrazi places a lot because of how many people play it; its cheap and simple for grinders to play optimally. s lot of people show up with it, it will show up more in top 8's.
I predict that it will not fare well at the GP because people will be prepared for it.
>>47637871
Not him, but most people use the real tiers.
>>47637959
I don't care how you cut it, Eldrazi is a weak deck.
>>47638030
>my opinion is objective fact
>nothing you say can change that
>>47637871
>Eldrazi places a lot because of how many people play it; its cheap and simple for grinders to play optimally
If the deck is badly positioned, and people are prepared for it as you say, they would not be performing as well as they do, despite the large presence of the deck (which isn't overwhelmingly large, only 10% or so.)
>I predict that it will not fare well at the GP because people will be prepared for it.
You can say this for literally any deck.
>>47638065
Shiting goalposts =/= making points
>>47638143
Lists that have specific sideboard slots for Eldrazi tend to roll over it pretty well. Most of my legacy experience comes from testing. Running Delver vs Eldrazi I found that once I started leaving in Daze on the draw and taking out probe, the matchup became favorable. Legacy is generally slow to react.
I don't care that much about whether or not you think the deck is good. At the end of the day, I'm thrilled to see turn 1 Eldrazi Temple.
>>47638477
>shifting goalposts
What? I just pointed out what you said. You're retarded.
>>47638500
>Its not a tier 1 deck
>well, if you define tiers like this it is!
I believe you may be the retarded one
>>47638533
I used the commonly accepted tiers. You're the one who said "if you define tiers like this".
>>47638561
I'm pretty sure "tiers" refers to relative power level in a vast majority of games. I don't know why you think magic is different.
>>47638700
You said
>>47637871
>I base my tiers on
Which is literally
>if you define tiers like this
>>47638741
Im using the common definition. You're using one unique to yourself.
That's an important distinction.
>>47638898
>>47638741
>>47638700
>>47638561
>>47638533
you two modern shitters need to fuck off, ok? thanks.
>>47638898
>>47637871
You literally said you used your own definition, retard.
>>47639027
I will explain this one time.
I used the common definition. I explained what I meant for the sake of clarity.
You used a personal definition. No one else uses it
>>47639052
Show me where I used a definition other than the common one. Link me my post.
>>47638700
>http://tcdecks.net/tierdecks.php
Seems like Eldrazi is pretty high to me.
Show me your own personal tier list.
I'm taking DDFT to SCG Worcester in a month and I need help with my last wishboard slot. Should I run Telemin Performance or Meltdown?
>>47637217
>says he plays storm
>doesn't differentiate between TES and ANT
>thinks he knows anything about Doomsday
Stay in school.
>>47642653
Yeah, cause playing storm forces you to choose one path and never deviate. DDFT is a worse version of storm that people play because it's flashy and makes them look smart. I'm sure stacking IU LED LED Probe BW 75% of the time is really difficult.
>>47642692
Actually far more often Top is involved. Anyway, I agree the deck typically isn't that hard. But saying it is a worse version of "storm" is misleading. It is aproximately one turn slower than ANT, more resilient to discard and permanent based hate, and has a deterministic kill, as in if you resolve doomsday you win, barring user error (this isn't the case for Ad Nauseam). It's not worse exactly, just different, and a bit slower which turns a lot of people off. It has high-level finishes proportional to the number of people who play the deck well.
Disclaimer: I fell in love with the deck almost as soon as I started playing legacy and it's the only deck I'll ever play despite owning belcher and pox as well.
Is Tezzerator still a thing in Legacy?
>>47642945
Yes. In fact chalice decks are at the best they've ever been right now. And tezzeret gets to play Force as well.
>>47642945
Of course!
As reanimator what big dumb dumb can I add to my sideboard to beat lands? I've yet to beat the lands player at my shop and it's pissing me off. Sometimes I win g1 then have the slowest and most frustrating g2/3 ever
>>47642962
>>47642964
Sweet, I was thinking about getting into Legacy with it but I hadn't heard any talk about it for a while so I was worried it had fallen out of the meta.
>>47643005
Well it definitely isn't a highly played deck. But more than any other format, legacy rewards picking a deck and sticking to it, so if you like tezzerat or and are willing to put in the time to master it it's a great deck to get started with.
>>47642817
Ad Nauseam isn't the normal route in ANT. They usually combo off through PiF or tutor chaining.
>>47643004
How do you usually lose to g2/3?
>>47643165
But it and Etw are the normal routes in TES and neither are guaranteed to kill. ANT is .5 to 1 turns faster than DDFT and gains that speed by sacrificing it's ability to combo off through a gaddock teeg and a chains of mephistopheles.
>>47643207
>by sacrificing it's ability to combo off through a gaddock teeg and a chains of mephistopheles.
Sure, in game one. I go to my LGS once every week to play legacy, and I face Teeg like once every couple of months on average, and I have yet to face chains.
>>47643004
Ashen Rider should knick that pesky Maze.
>>47643178
He holds crop rotation or mulls to a maze of ith once he knows what I'm playing. If I can't kill him in the first ~5 turns he gets his engine going and it's basically all over. Tabernacle and ports are a bitch too. The last time we played I needled stage so he just started taking counters off depths the normal way. I needled depths and he burned me out with punishing fire. I couldnt push any damage through because of glacial chasm
>>47643282
Tidespout Tyrant isn't enough?
>>47643316
The game I mentioned I had a tidespout tyrant out that managed to swing twice. Paying for tabernacle + ports + wasteland left me with no mana during my turn and I used all the instants in my hand and didnt draw more.
>>47643347
That matchup shouldn't be that unfavorable for you. You could try Inkwell which can't be targeted by maze.
Either you gave the Land player too much time, or he just has the perfect answer everytime.
>>47643251
M8 I'm trying to give an example of things ddft can do that ant and tes struggle with, and your personal experiences with frequency of permanent based hate are not a refutation. Not to mention g1 flexibility is important because winning g1 means you only need to win 1 more instead of coming from behind.
I won't try to argue that ddft is the best storm deck or that it takes mystical genius of some kind to play it. It's a different and imo equally valid storm option. Basically it comes down to this:
Speed: TES > ANT > DDFT
resilience: DDFT > ANT >TES
PRETTY SIMPLE
>>47643679
Is TES really that much faster?
>>47644532
I should have been clearer. Those are relative speeds at which the decs attemptss to "go off".
TES aims to "go off" on turn 2, so it typically blows it's load faster. But sometimes going off for tes is just capping out 14 goblins, so it ends up actually killing turn 4, but
I'm getting back into magic. For the past few months I've been playing with some friends/coworkers who have let me borrow a legacy deck to play with them. The only legacy level cards left in my collection are a handful of fetch lands and a play set of stoneforge mystic because the last time I played was during original zendikar.
Given that, what is the "best" SFM deck to buy into? Money isnt a huge issue but I'm not terribly familiar with the legacy meta in general, just the 4-5 decks I've seen played among our group
Hey /tg/, miracles player here. I'm kinda skeptical of playing predict in my deck. I have a lot of people telling Me it's good and a lot of people telling me to not. What's your guys personal experience? For a small reference I play U/W miracles splash black for the abyss and inquistion
>>47644668
DDFT gains resiliency over ANT, in the sense that it can wish for answers. Not going to argue with this.
On the other hand, speed is a different type of resiliency. ANT is far more likely to win before permenant based hate hits the table. The turn 1 kill in DDFT is extremely rare. It also loses to Predict/Grindstone/Surgical Extraction and other random cards that are marginal against other storm decks.
On top of this, DDFT might be able to spend 4 mana over 2 turns to kill a Thalia, but TES can do the same thing and still go off turn 1.
Tl;dr the resiliency DDFT has over ANT or TES is not worth the loss of speed.
>>47644895
Death and Taxes is my recommendation. Aggro-prison + mana denial + Stoneforge is solid.
>>47643004
>As reanimator what big dumb dumb can I add to my sideboard to beat lands?
Karakas
>>47645020
That's what you're missing. ANT relies on speed to beat permanent based hate and discard heavy decks. DDFT doesn't need to. It has an extremely stable manabase, wishes for answers, and a kill condition that is also a tutor. I think you value speed, and I value flexibility. At any rate, of speed is what you want, play TES. I honestly think right now ANT is the worst of the 3 storm decks.
>>47644914
I'm not a miracles player but I can tell you that it seems good on the surface. At worse, it cantrips, at best, it's raw card advantage for 1U, at instant speed no less. With the level of deck manipulation miracles packs, you should nearly always know the top card of your library and almost guarantee +1 cards in hand. On a different note, it has some small utility with its ability to fuck up top deck tutors. I don't see the harm in jamming one or two.
slump
>>47645454
>I honestly think right now ANT is the worst of the 3 storm decks.
Not him, and this may very well be true, but ANT is the deck putting up the most success out of the three storm decks. What exactly are you basing this on? Sure you can chalk ANT's success up to the fact that it's the most popular, and the easiest storm deck to pilot, but you don't see some DDFT Master taking a tournament by storm, nor do you see a highly skilled TES pilot doing the samewhich is strange btw, because I think TES is the best positioned storm deck.
what's the best tempo deck to play? is RUG delver past its prime?
>>47649460
>what's the best tempo deck to play?
Grixis Delver is putting up the most results currently.
>is RUG delver past its prime?
Perhaps.
>Assemble most of fish because I loved playing it when I borrowed one for a GP side event
>Got FoW, Vials, ect
>only need wastelands
>check recent lists
>chalice
>recently spiked to $40
The ride never ends, does it
>>47650971
That bothers you more than the $13 Cursecatchers?
>>47650998
Not that guy, but when the fuck did that happen? Fish is far too niche of a deck to really have that 1 drop be so overpriced. Actually, fuck it, every card that sees play in modern is stupidly over priced
>>47650998
I already have curse catchers, though. They were part I the deck when I started assembling everything and Chalice wasn't in every fish deck. Chalice hadn't spiked yet, so I could have gotten it. Now? I held off on wasteland to see what EMA does to the price, but not I need to budget/trade for chalice. My trade binder is low, and I have a tooth problem that came up over the weekend, so my cash is tight.
I guess, I felt so close only to be set back again.
>>47651258
I mean you don't 'have' to run chalice. Greg Hatch ran a pretty cool list a while back that used Standstill and a full eight manlands
>>47652253
That's hot, actually. I like that. It's especially good with Vial. What other manlamds besides Muta? Conclave? Did it splash for Tar Pit?
>>47652253
>>47652383
Found it, actually.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_merfolk_deck_tech_wi.html
4 Muta and 4 Factory.
Tidal Warrior is neat, but there are no vials?
>>47630012
Alrighty, so help me with my play /tg/. I'm a newbie to legacy and not super experienced in magic as a whole.
I drew 7
Volcanic Island, Bayou
Rain of Filth, Dark Ritual, Lotus Petal,
Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm
I keep that, right? That's capable of making 6 mana on turn 2 and infernal tutoring with an empty hand. That's not enough to kill someone, right? But it's close.
T1 drop Volcanic and brainstorm. Draw Dark Petition, Dark Ritual and Tropical island off the top. Put tropical island on top, put Rain of Filth on top of that to draw next turn.
T2 drop Bayou, drop lotus petal, tap Bayou for black, dark Ritual x2 for 5 mana to Dark petition with. Grab past-in-flames. Tap volcanic for the red and cast past. Sac petal to get black, rain of filth sac both lands for 2 black, flashback dark ritual for 4 black, infernal tutor
for cabal ritual, cabal ritual and then flash it back, flashback tutor for tendrils and win, right?
Any issues with that so far?
Another hand:
Polluted Delta, Polluted Delta, Bayou
LED, LED
Cabal Therapy, Gix Probe
I like the Gix+therapy, but a 3 lander with no tutor or any meaningful digging in Ponder or Brainstorm, is this a straight up Mulligan?
If so, going to six:
Bayou (I only have 1, I have no idea why I am drawing it every hand)
LED, Dark Ritual
Cabal Therapy
Brainstorm, Ponder
I don't have any tutor or ad naus and I can't even cast my dig. I go to 5 on this, right?
If so, going to 5:
Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Ponder
LED
Duress
Can't cast shit, go to 4:
Misty Rainforest
Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal
Gix Probe
I gotta keep at this point, right? Sry1 reveals brainstorm, do I ship it to the bottom, or leave it? If I ship it I may actually get a card I want instead of just a brainstorm when I have no guaranteed shuffle.
>>47653958
You keep that 4. Keep Brainstorm on top. You can go Petal + Brainstorm after using probe if you want to save your fetch crack to shuffle away cards you don't want.
>>47654047
t1
misty rainforest, lotus petal, pay 2 for gitaxian to draw brainstorm, sac petal to use brainstorm. It draws LED, cabal ritual and underground sea.
I think in this case i put underground sea on top, and cabal ritual on top of it, and then do I crack to shuffle for underground sea right away so I don't draw either of them? Cabal ritual is a good card for me, but with such a small hand it might not be the best mana source right now because it might not be threshold time too soon, and I think I'd like to keep the LED in case I get an infernal, and keep the lotus petal for mana+fixing.
What do you think of that play?
>>47627551
Is that you Paul?
>>47653958
>Volcanic Island, Bayou
Rain of Filth, Dark Ritual, Lotus Petal,
Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm
A keep for sure.
>T1 drop Volcanic and brainstorm
Don't brainstorm first turn without good reason.
Also, you can only flashback spells with Past in flames on spells you've casted before Past in Flames resolved, so this line
>cabal ritual and then flash it back
won't work.
The 4 card hand is a keep. Keep Brainstorm on top as that's the only card that will bring you back in this situation.
>>47654398
>Also, you can only flashback spells with Past in flames on spells you've casted before Past in Flames resolved
oh fuck.
Thanks for catching that though, I didn't realize it. I guess it's not just a 4cmc Yawgmoth's Will, huh?
>>47654479
Yawgmoth's will exiles all spells cast after it resolves. So you can't do that with will either.
>>47654229
>I think in this case i put underground sea on top, and cabal ritual on top of it,
When you're low on resources, the underground sea is more valuable than the lotus petal. You just don't have enough spells to combo off, and the best shot you've got is to chain into cantrips getting your pieces along the way, and in order to do that you need lands.
>but with such a small hand it might not be the best mana source right now because it might not be threshold time too soon
By the time you're ready to combo off, you will.
In this situation, on a mull to four, Ad nauseam is probably your best line, so work toward that.
>>47648973
I think the lack of Burning Wish really hurts ANT. TES and DDFT have more business spells and can answer more problems game 1. TES has speed. ANT is very stable and straightforward and has few confusing lines and is widely considered the "default" storm list, thus making it more prevalent. For the record, Bryant Cook, TES's main creator/developer, is very good an routinely puts up good results with TES. As for DDFT, the deck lacks dedicated players, and the best pilots are mostly outside the states. Once in a while the deck pops up in the top 64 of some large European tournament.
>>47654564
>Ad nauseam is probably your best line, so work toward that.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking I wanted. Do I maybe just shuffle away the LED and cabal ritual then?
How hated is belcher? Because I'm making belcher.
>>47654758
No. First turn I would have played Misty Rainforest and passed, and draw into Brainstorm. What are you looking to draw right now? It's lands, cantrips, mana, business. Basically your whole deck. Since you want whatever it is you draw at this point, there's no real point in digging right now. Also using the lotus petal to cast brainstorm when you're on 4 cards is really really bad. When you cast brainstorm or any cantrip, always ask yourself what is it that you're looking for, never blindly do it.
>>47654896
So lets say I ponder, and I really need a tutor or ad naus to 'go off', what I see is 1-2 cantrips (like a ponder and another brainstorm) and a land. Do I shuffle and draw random, or do I go with cantrips so I know I can keep digging for sure?
>>47654747
>>47648973
Looks like most of the DDFT results I can find online are from 2012-2013, but I did manage to find some cat who top-8'd a super IQ with it at the beginning of the year. Doesn't say how many players there were though. sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98469
>have a playset of LEDs and not much more
>considering building Dredge since every other deck uses really expensive cards
>also considering building Nic Fit because the deck is "cheap" and Cabal Therapy goes everywhere
>>47654772
People will think you're a doofus. And then they'll lose. Unless they have Force. Unless you can beat Force. In the end you'll still be a doofus. I'd play Belcher ifI wasn't too busy playing DDFT.
>>47654945
Are you under pressure? If no, keep the cantrips.
If yes, how much pressure? If you're going to die next turn, then you need to ask yourself if you can afford to spend one more mana to cast a cantrip and still combo off.
>>47654772
Belcher is the hero Legacy deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
>>47654995
>>47655185
Well I'm going for lads, we'll see how it goes.
>>47653958
>>47654398
Alright, how about this:
Draw 7:
Bayou, Underground Sea, Polluted Delta
Lotus Petal, Cabal Ritual
Infernal Tutor
Ponder
So what I see here is a tutor, a couple mana, and a dig. If I can get an LED off the ponder and a good spell of the draw I think I may be able to go off turn 2? Not sure. I think I'm suppose to keep this, your opinion?
t1:
Underground sea, ponder. See Probe, Rain of Filth and Cabal ritual on the top. I think I can get a turn 3 kill with this stuff. I stack it on top in that order and then draw probe.
t2:
draw rain of filth. Drop polluted delta, pass.
t3:
Draw Cabal Ritual, pay 2 for probe, get an infernal tutor off of it. Play Bayou and lotus petal. Sac polluted delta for volcanic island. Tap Bayou for rain of filth. Tap sea for black, tap volcanic for red. Sac all three lands for another 3 black (BBBBR) and have 7 cards in the yard for cabal rituals, putting me to 7 black, 1 red. Tutor for cabal ritual. Cast 2 cabal rituals, I have a shitload of mana, a lotus petal in play and a 1card infernal hand, so tendrils if they're low enough, or past in flames, do a bunch of shit, then tendrils after.
That look good?
Another one, draw 7:
Swamp, Underground Sea (oh wow, a hand without my 1-of bayou)
Duress
Lotus Petal, Cabal Ritual, Cabal Ritual
Infernal Tutor
I have relevant spells, but with no fetches, rain of filth or cantrips I wont get threshold soon, I don't think I should Mulligan this though, right?
t1:
Swamp, duress
t2:
Draw polluted delta, play it
t3:
Draw Misty, play it. crack polluted for an underground sea,
t4:
Draw LED, play underground sea, play petal and LED, crack misty for volcanic.
Sac petal, tap lands, get BBBRR. Cabal ritual x2 for BBBBBRR. Infernal tutor on the stack (BBBRR) sac LED for BBBBBBRR and get another infernal tutor from library. Cast it for past in flames (BBBBRR) and then cast that (BR) flashback both cabal rituals (BBBB BBBB), use an infernal tutor to go get tendrils for 22.
How's that?
>>47656552
Another 7:
Underground sea, Swamp, Polluted Delta
Dark Petition
Cabal Ritual
Ponder, Ponder
I can ponder right from turn one with this hand, and after the 2nd ponder I'll have spell mastery for Dark petition. I'm looking for mana. This is an easy keep, right?
t1:
Sea, ponder. Cabal Therapy, Cabal Therapy, Island on top. If I was in a matchup where I thought cabal therapy would help, I could draw one off here, draw another next turn, and then shuffle the island with polluted delta, but in this case I'll just shuffle and draw. Draw infernal tutor.
t2:
Draw Duress. Ponder. (Probe, Ponder, and Bayou are on top.) So I think in this case I draw the probe, and pay 2 to cast it to see their hand and draw that ponder. Now I can use Delta to shuffle away the Bayou and either ponder or duress, depending on what the probe showed me. In this case we'll fetch Sea and ponder. Ponder shows Brainstorm, Island, Delta. I'll shuffle and draw. I'm hoping to not draw a land (or get an LED) off the ponder or the start or next turn so I can empty my hand and hellbent tutor, because I need to drop this swamp next turn. I get a probe off that random draw.
t3:
Draw tropical island. Okay, I can't drop both lands now, probe for LED? Get Misty. I don't think I can go off this turn, and with 6 cards in the yard I can get threshold though.
play swamp, duress, and infernal tutor for cabal ritual.
So I have 2 cabal ritual, a dark petition, mist and tropical island in hand.
t4:
Draw Petal
Play Misty, play petal. Tap swamp and sea to ritual x2 for 8 black.
Dark Petition for past in flames, (6 black, sac petal for red) and cast it (BBB now) Cabal Ritual x2 (9 black) and then I can tutor a couple times for tendrils or rituals, flash back the duress, and tendrils for 20+
So how am I doing with mulligans, ponders, shuffles and the order I'm doing spells? I'm interested to see how badly I get my butt kicked in my first legacy experience.
>>47656552
>Bayou, Underground Sea, Polluted Delta, Lotus Petal, Cabal Ritual, Infernal Tutor, Ponder
Definitely a keep. It's not great though.
>That look good?
Yes. I know you're just goldfishing now, but you should factor in discard as well after you've committed some basic lines to memory.
>Swamp, Underground Sea (oh wow, a hand without my 1-of bayou), Duress, Lotus Petal, Cabal Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Infernal Tutor
Yeah, it's a keep.
>t1: Swamp, duress
Under ideal circumstances you'd save at least one discard on your combo turn. Duress typically signals Storm, and would prompt your opponent to dig for more counters.
>t4: Draw LED, play underground sea, play petal and LED, crack misty for volcanic.
Don't play LED until you absolutely need to. People can abrupt decay it to mess you up. Unless you're playing against discard, different story then.
Looks good otherwise.
>>47656934
>So how am I doing with mulligans, ponders, shuffles and the order I'm doing spells?
Could use some work, but fine for now. Just make sure you think about why you doing whatever it is you're doing. Don't just cast spells because you don't want to waste mana. There must be a reason. Try to goldfish on turn 3 if possible. Remember to keep a discard spell on your combo turn. And practice sideboarding against matchups you expect to face.
>I'm interested to see how badly I get my butt kicked in my first legacy experience.
You're going to lose a lot with storm on your first time. It's just going to happen.
What's your decklist like. I'm curious.
>>47657519
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Dark Petition
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 LED
1 Rain of Filth
1 Tendrils
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Misty
4 Delta
1 swamp
1 island
2 underground
1 tropical islan
1 bayou
1 volcanic
For sideboard cards I have Xantid, abrupt decays, massacre Krosan, Hurkyl's, echoing truth, and empty the warrens. I also see lists that run a Top in the sideboard, and I have one, but I have no idea when to bring it in or really how to use it.
I also have the other cards needed to make this a TES deck.
>>47657649
>>47657649
>I also see lists that run a Top in the sideboard, and I have one, but I have no idea when to bring it in or really how to use it.
Top is for grindy matchups, like Miracles.
Your list seems pretty typical. No Chain of Vapor in the side?
Honestly, TES is probably better positioned in this meta. There's a lot less counterspells than there used to be, and there's a few decks that can lock us out turn 1, namely Eldrazi, so having a high chance to kill before that is beneficial.
It may help to look at videos of good storm players at work on youtube. Look up Bryant Cook for TES, and Adam Prosak for ANT.
>>47657856
I do have a couple chain of vapor, just wasn't planning them for my sideboard. And now that I look at it again it looks more useful than before. It can bounce something like a chalice at 0 or even your own LED to save it, can't it? I'm not really sure what to put in my sideboard totally.
>>47657910
Chain of vapor can be used on your own artifacts to increase the storm count. Almost every list packs at least one. It's just so versatile.
>>47657910
My typical sideboard for ANT was:
3 dread of night or 2 dread 1 massacre
2 xantid swarm
2 empty the Warrens
2 chain of vapors
2 carpet of flowers
4 abrupt decay
Eldrazi is a rough matchup, but having a favorable miracles matchup is worth having one bad matchup
>>47657910
My sideboard is
4 AD
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Disfigure
2 Xantis Swarm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Empty
1 Tendrils
1 Tropical
>>47657948
Oh wow. You could play a couple petals, chain of vapor and sac a land, bounce the petalsm, replay the petals, and that means 5 storm for one blue mana and a sac land? That's insane. Holy shit. Does anyone send it mainboard?
>>47658015
When do I bring in empty the warrens?
>>47658049
no, you have to sac a land every time you bounce.
>>47658063
The card in front of me says you need to only sac a land if you want to create of chain of vapor copy. So it would be cast 2 petal (2 storm) chain a petal (3 storm) sac land to copy chain onto 2nd petal, and then recast both petals (5 storm.)
>>47658049
Bring in ETW against decks where going off fast or with less than 10 storm is key, or where threat density needs to be upped. I take in 1 against Delver/permission heavy decks and 2 in against Eldrazi and Miracles.
>>47658094
Also if you think they're on Leyline of Sanctity
>>47658088
Yeah, sorry, I meant you have to sac a land every time you copy. Woops. I'm tired.
>>47657856
I'll check those people out, thanks. Now that I understand past in flames only effects stuff in the graveyard that was in it at the time it was cast, I'm learning slightly more towards TES. I may try goldfishing TES with you guys tomorrow.
