Thoughts on Fate Core and Fate Accelerated?
Interesting concepts: though I need to "research" how these games are used to their fullest.
FAE is too floaty for my tastes
>>47621605
my D&D DM loves this game. mostly because of the Dresden Files.
we played one session once, it was okay mechanics-wise. I'd get him to run it again, but he'd probably make it take place in the DF universe and that's just not my jibe
>>47621605
too complicated
>>47621605
It's fine.
Fate Core is my favorite system, and the only non-Fate engine I'll use is GUMSHOE.
It's a masterpiece.
>>47621605
how is combat in fate? give me an example
>>47621605
Dungeon World
>>47621888
Not him, but:
>Initiative is decided by whoever has the highest rank in Notice, or Empathy if you're one of those strange people that'd rather do a court case or debate club instead of punching zombies in the dick
>Every time someone makes an attack the target makes a roll to defend with any appropriate skill, the difference is how many stress points the target takes if they fail to beat the attack
>these have to go in stress boxes equal to or greater than the amount they just took, or you can take a consequence (Busted Ribs or Battered & Bruised for a physical fight, Lost Cool or Gutted Credibility for a yelling match)
>if you can take neither because they're all gone you're out of the fight, with your opponent deciding how you go out
>at any time you can decide to give up and escape the worst of a fight, which gives you a fate point but comes with whatever downsides come with losing
>>47621605
I've been working on converting my current mecha campaign to Fate using Mecha vs Kaiju's mecha rules (I don't like Camelot Trigger or ADX's approaches to mecha creation), but using Accelerated instead of Core.
Converting a lot of the mecha abilities to Accelerated is actually pretty easy using the advice from the conversion guide on Evil Hat's website (all the abilities are basically just stunts).
>>47621770
Fate Core has this weird problem where the author pointlessly over-complicates everything with needing to have increasingly obtuse jargon for what should be common sense things. If you can find a guide (or other Fate-based game) that does away with all the jargon and actually explains things in common sense terms it actually ends up less complicated than it looks.
>>47622767
>mecha vs kaiju
Never really looked too closely at that. How well do you think that'd work for a UC Gundam campaign?
I've wanted to run one of those for ages. I think I ended up statting a few suits using Camelot Trigger's method before losing interest.
I like Fate Core fine, but I use the Accelerated version of Stunts since they're explained better.
It's probably my go-to 'generic' system if I have some idea that doesn't fit into an existing game.
I think there's a lot of dumb 'what ifs' people debate about, like the whole 'aspects always true' thing, but if you mostly stick to human-ish level people with few unusual abilities, the game is great and works just fine. Like, I wouldn't use it for generic superheroes, but it would maybe work for low-level X-Men that only have a single, limited power.
>>47622827
What about Venture City's power system?
>>47622909
Haven't read it, couldn't say.
That said, (and I could be 100% wrong on this), I remember that Venture City released with gang rules that straight up hadn't been playtested. It was something ridiculous, like the average street gang having a +5 on all rolls because they were Rank 5.
There was errata quickly, but I'm easily soured on something when it's clear the creators didn't test their own game.
>>47622814
>How well do you think that'd work for a UC Gundam campaign?
In theory, it might work well. UC Gundam is the kind of feel I'm going for with my campaign so I'll find out soon enough.
MvK uses a points budget for building mecha and normally works with the PCs building custom mecha within a specific budget, but if you're statting stuff from a pre-existing universe I'd recommend statting a few of the basic suits based on what you think is important enough to want to emulate first, then seeing how their point totals come out and adjusting things to a common value from there.
You can probably build GMs and Zakus within 15 points depending on how detailed you want to get.
>>47622933
You should, I quite like how the powers system in that works. It's on the SRD website if you want to give it a look-over.
Gives you lots of options for making a more diverse power set but gives everyone roughly the same power level (Venture City gives PCs free stunt slots that are meant especially for building powers out of)
I feel it's a game that the DM controls a lot of the feel of thanks to Fate Points.
Played in a game where I never got a single fate point other than when we refreshed every 2-3 sessions, and we only started with 4. Even when I tried to invoke my own things as negatives to get fate points (because the DM wasn't) I had to spend a fate point because I was invoking (so I stopped that pretty soon).
That all being said, I still enjoyed the time, but it was more because I was spending time with people in a time I was feeling really isolated.
>>47624027
>suggesting your aspects as compels
>your GM says you're invoking
Your GM is a fucking retard who needs to read the fucking rules again. God I hate people like this.
>>47624027
>Played in a game where I never got a single fate point other than when we refreshed every 2-3 sessions, and we only started with 4. Even when I tried to invoke my own things as negatives to get fate points (because the DM wasn't) I had to spend a fate point because I was invoking (so I stopped that pretty soon).
Pretty much everything you said is the opposite of how the game is supposed to work.
Sorry you had a shitty GM who didn't know how to run the game.
>>47624082
>>47624049
To be honest I initially blamed the system. But I'm past that now and I see it was just the way he was running his game.
I tried it twice as Storyteller in a Ancient Egyptian setting, both times it felt like the players were fishing for what to do next, the aspects were a pain to keep track of (take time to write something), confusing (what is important enough o be an aspect), and ended up useless (people didn't evoke them), the fate point resource was a hassle so the game ended up being endless 50/50 rolls to try to make something happen.
I tried to follow the book and make each scene have a "purpose" and resolved by skill checks, but the players were't proactive so they waited around for me to tell them what happened next.
A big part of the appeal of a game is Player Creation Options, (which class/race/weapons/career/spells/skill to pick from), it helps draw interest and prompt creativity. In FATE you have your approaches to allocate and you are completely up in the clouds for aspects, it's hard for the players to know what is reasonable or important. Then for rolling, it's just your +3 or +2 approach every time, boring. No strategy or way to play well, just do whatever you want.
Very unsatisfied, I'm going to try a crunchy strategy game instead. Easy for people to get into and to objectively see what is happening rather than guess.
>>47621605
Like Jeb Bush, its a fucking mess.
>>47624189
This is what happens when you try to play Fate Accelerated like D&D. Stunts and Aspects are integral to that system, even more than regular Fate, simply because there are no skills.
Try Fate Core, there's a skill list there.
>>47621605
It's a great system, but I will admit it takes the right group of players. If even one of them is a powergaming minmax faggit, it can ruin it for everyone.
You have to have a group of players who are more concerned about the overall story than being the damage star. Real role playing.
Luckily I have such a group, but not everyone does and so I get the distaste toward it for some people, favoring a system more defined and granular in game mechanics.
>>47621605
Play Dresden Files instead.
The "Minor" modifications make huge differences. For the better.
>>47624189
>A big part of the appeal of a game is Player Creation Options, (which class/race/weapons/career/spells/skill to pick from), it helps draw interest and prompt creativity. In FATE you have your approaches to allocate and you are completely up in the clouds for aspects, it's hard for the players to know what is reasonable or important.
In Fate you're meant to have a session 0 where the group talks about the setting, the tone and substance of the campaign, and what sorts of characters make sense for that.
And then everyone makes characters together with a sort of round robin "involve someone else" process to link everyone together and add aspects through backgrounds.
>>47627105
Since when, I didn't read anything like that.
>>47622767
Interesting is the authors' claim that Fate Core is more streamlined (similar concepts squished into one vocab term) than previous iterations, so I'd hate to see how complicated those previous editions are.
>>47621605
"Get that weak shit out of here and bring out the Champions, GURPS, Mekton, Mayfair DC Heroes, WEG d6..." There are a few interesting setting books for FATE, but the mechanics are about as solid as a jello mold. Give me something crispy, crunchy, and suitable as armor against low caliber firearms if I'm holding it in front of my chest.
>>47627755
They got rid of terms like "invoking for effect" and the whole concept of "tagging" by bundling it all under Create Advantage, because that's what the terms all actually did.
And I still think that Fate just simply doesn't work with certain groups. >>47627834 or >>47624189 are good examples. Which isn't to say that they're wrong or that's Fate's bad, just that different people enjoy RPGs in different ways. You have to remember that Fate itself is basically a bunch of houserules for FUDGE, an example of a group crafting a system that they liked to be even more compatible with the way they liked to play games.
>>47627498
Since the start of the book where it talks about campaign creation? And having a setting description and setting aspects? And then at the end of character creation, where you pass your characters around?
Did you not read the first 50 pages?
>>47630879
The entire book is like 25 pages.
>>47627498
All of the Game Creation and Character Creation sections are pretty explicit about it, but here: http://fate-srd.com/fate-core/making-setting-work-fate
Check out that and every following bit all the way through character creation.
They even have specific worksheets meant to guide/organize it. See the attached PDF.
Personally I like having similar stuff for any campaign I run. It helps make sure everyone's on the same page, plus it lets the players feel like they have some ownership of the campaign/setting and are more invested.
Like how making food with a kid means they're more likely to eat it and be less picky.
>>47631000
>>47630908
>The entire book is like 25 pages.
Maybe then you were playing Fate Accelerated, and not Core.
In that case: http://fate-srd.com/fate-accelerated/being-gamemaster#help-build-campaigns
Here's a question that hasn't been asked yet:
What's the difference between Core and Accelerated?
>>47632176
The main difference is skills vs approaches. In core you use skills which tell you what your character CAN do, in Accelerated you use approaches which are HOW you do things, and use your aspects to justify what you can and cannot do.
I just bought the Atomic Robo RPG rulebook and all my friends are stoked to try it. We've never played a Fate Core game, and I think it'll be fun just for the fact that we'll be able to jump in and do some Action Science easily. I love that the GM section of the rulebook deals with proper story pacing and stuff like that.
>>47632176
Accelerated also has clearer stunt rules.
Accelerated recommends looking at Core for 'extra' rules, e.g. Mooks, advancement
>>47632557
It's actually kind of weird because most of the time a lite version of a game is a good intro to the full version, but Accelerated is backwards because it makes more sense if you know Core first then switch over.
Also totally agree on Accelerated's stunt rules. Hell, a lot of stuff in Accelerated is a lot more intuitive than Core.
>>47634049
That's why it's Accelerated. Lite implies less, but accelerated implies it's more.
>>47634108
It's more by having less, though. Which I think says more about Core than it does Accelerated.
>>47621605
Has anyone tried Strands of Fate?
From what I've heard it runs more like a traditional RPG and can be a good transition from more traditional games to Fate.
is there something like fate fantasy with all the rules i need?
>>47632299
So it sounds like Accelerated is a tad more cinematic than Core?
Obviously I haven't read a word of either, but this thread has grabbed my interest.
>>47636233
Far more than a tad, honestly. Like exceedingly more so.
I'm interested in working on a Front Mission/mecha game using Fate, but I don't know if I should use Core or Accelerated.
My idea is to translate the wanzers and the weapons from the SNES to tabletop.
>>47637227
I don't know much about this franchise, but I know in my campaign inventory is very important to facilitate or impede combat against a given target.
You can give a thing Skills in the way you give it, traditionally, Aspects by categorizing its abilities or stuff. Therefore, you might not have "skills" but instead "systems" with different offense/defense systems having different rankings per mech, and having associated skills/systems to provide defense against certain kinds of Attacks.
>>47637227
Fate usually works best with a more cinematic slant than a more tactical one. Though you can get pretty tactical with created advantages and terrain aspects if you get creative enough.
>>47638547
A lot of the mecha systems for fair treat mecha equipment like stunts and/aspects, I think for this front mission type idea you could treat the different body parts as their own aspects and weapons as aspects with stunts.
However you might end up having something of an aspect overload in the end, which is only a problem depending on how you personally feel about it.
It only really works if you're playing with a group of writers, its not a game as much as cooperative story telling.
>>47637227
George?
>>47637227
Use FAE and bolt the Strike! tactical combat submodule on top maybe?
I wanted to do that for a while anyway.
>>47638703
>A lot of the mecha systems for fair treat mecha equipment like stunts and/aspects, I think for this front mission type idea you could treat the different body parts as their own aspects and weapons as aspects with stunts.
Camelot Trigger does it like this IIRC.
>>47640743
>Camelot Trigger does it like this IIRC.
CT may be a good place to look in that regard, though I personally don't care for how it works as written.
>>47640743
>Strike!
Jesus fucking Christ you Strike faggots can't even resist shilling it in threads that have nothing to do with it in any way at all, can you?
>>47642281
>"I want to translate this grid mecha game to tabletop! Is Fate a good option?"
>"Have you considered combining this grid based game with a system vaguely similar to Fate... with Fate?"
>"FUCKING SHILLS FUCKERS"
come on dude
>>47642434
>Strike
>vaguely similar to Fate
no u come on dude
>>47642281
>can't even resist shilling it in threads that have nothing to do
>Told by a fate player.
You know what they say about pots and kettles.
>>47642569
Stay mad Stroke! shill.
>>47640743
Stop shilling Strike!
Why does /tg/ keep shilling Strike!?
>>47642601
In this situation, because it's fucking perfect for grid based mecha combat that does not give a fuck about twiddling numbers.
Which may or may not have been what the FAE mecha-anon was looking for.
>>47642601
It's a pretty fun game if you like tactical grid combat, and the creator is a pretty cool guy. Even if his layout is still all over the place.
Anyway, I like Fate Core a lot. used it for a game set in Eberron, it worked great.
>>47642621
>>47642622
Maybe if you can stand MOTHERFUCKING 1d6
1d6
1d6
1d6
1d6
WHY.
>>47642644
>not getting advantage on his throws
Look at this fucking noob. Look at him and laugh.
>>47642644
It's 1d6 to match DnD3e/4e/5e math.
In DnD, the way DCs are set up, you succeed on a 14 or above if untrained, or a 10 or above if trained.
10+ on a d20 turns into 3+ on a d6.
14+ on a d20 turns into 4+ on a d6, with only a 4% difference.
Not sure what the big deal is. It's the same odds.
>>47642682
Even though you're correct, you totally fucked up those numbers you wrote.
>>47642656
>>47642682
1d6 is way too swingy for crits and crit fails.
>>47642695
The game system is built to handle it - a crit success/fail isn't as devastating as it would be in DnD.
Great, another thread Strike-jacked.
This is a Fate thread, not a bad D&D clone thread.
>>47642695
That I can agree to, and I'd prefer more support/maths for the 2d6 version (would slot into PbtA systems more seamlessly too).
>>47642723
It's because Strike! shitlords can't help but keep shilling the "system."
>>47642734
1.) I only dropped a mention of it as an option for mecha combat (as fusing it with FAE is something I had been planning on for a while). There would have been no further discussion unless anon was interested. I didn't even reply to >>47642281.
2.) System in quotation marks? Really?
>>47638942
I don't know any George.
>>47638547
Using Stunts for equipment and Aspects as is was my first idea. The Skill list will be improved to match my vision of the game mechanics, but not too much.
>>47638703
Yes, I don't want to shove every little mechanical detail from the videogame to a narrative tabletop game; that makes both the gameplay and the development a bore.
I'm not interested in touching Strike! at any moment, present or future.
>>47642775
Strike! is a tabletop MMO though, just like 4e.
>>47643067
Consider that aspects tend to be wide descriptors so they are best suited to give a mecha a purpose and build, for example "fast and stealthy recon mech" while stunts are narrower permissions for special actions but do not cost a Fate Point to use, like "advanced targeting system: when you use your mecha's sensor systems to create an advantage on an enemy mecha, invoking the aspect on an attack roll gives an additional +2 to roll."
Core / Accelerated doesn't really matter, as skills / approaches are a player quality.
It's a passable system with some great premade settings, but the Core version is very poorly organized and makes a lot of the shit that's supposed to be simplest way too complicated to use (you can count the number of Worlds of Adventure using "Current and Impending Issues" on one hand, and these are from the same company. Wouldn't have been nearly so bad if the book didn't feel the need to START with them, giving the impression they're so central to the design. This is something it does a lot). Fate Accelerated isn't so convoluted, but suffers from the problem where it's too simplistic to keep you interested but too complicated to flow fast. Wushu, Lady Blackbird and some of the simplest *World games do this better.
I also don't like the fanbase pushing it everywhere like they're competing with the GURPS autists. This game is absolutely, most certainly not for everyone, and it's definitely not the best choice for everything. That they've got a similar habit of claiming that everyone who doesn't like it has either played it wrong or just "doesn't get it"/is too stupid/"needs to go back to wargames, munchkin" is irritating as hell, too.
>>47643247
It's also advertised far too often as "perfect for introducing people to roleplaying games", but that's fucking wrong. It may not be as mechanically complex as D&D but playing it relies on understanding CONCEPTS which are vastly more so. Nerds who've been roleplaying for 20 years now always forget just how alien the very concept of it is to someone doing it the first time, and the advantage of a simulationist system is that since it only operates on in-game level it's perfectly possible to a run a game where only the GM knows the rules. You just let the players sit down and slowly digest that whole "it's kind of like pretend, but you sometimes roll dice" idea while you take care of all mechanical issues behind the stages. They just need to say what their character does.
Go try playing Fate, even FAE, without everyone understanding Aspects and Approaches and Actions and whatshit (stuff that takes some time to get mentally used to even to players who are just new to Fate, almost regardless of what other roleplaying experiences they have, much less people who've never done it before). To newbies, this is both intimidating as fuck and makes LESS sense than simulationist game's universe centered mechanics.
>>47643247
>I also don't like the fanbase pushing it everywhere like they're competing with the GURPS autists. This game is absolutely, most certainly not for everyone, and it's definitely not the best choice for everything. That they've got a similar habit of claiming that everyone who doesn't like it has either played it wrong or just "doesn't get it"/is too stupid/"needs to go back to wargames, munchkin" is irritating as hell, too.
That's more proeminent with the PbtA crowd, mainly the Dungeon World fans.
>>47643247
>everyone who doesn't like it has either played it wrong
I wonder if the SJWs back in Evil Hat notice how similar that is to the stereotypical "dude trying to hit on a lesbian who is clearly not interested by claiming that she's just never met the RIGHT guy."
>>47643274
Dungeon World is turning into the Pathfinder of indie.
"Hey guys try out this new game, it's so much more balanced than DnD and easier to get into!"
>it's Dungeon World
Dungeon World is a FANTASTIC game for beginners. I'd recommend it to anyone looking to get into RPGs.
It is also, compared to Apocalypse World, and Monsterhearts, and World Wide Wrestling, quite poorly designed.
I've only played this once, but it seemee too heavily weighted in terms of the dice roll.or at least that's how my DM ran it. It lead to ridiculous failures and unlikely triumphs in equal measure, which was funny, but wrecked the narritive a bit
>>47643314
What kind of dice are they rolling?
a roll of 4dF will only ever give you results centred around 0, meaning you will roll close to your skill the vast majority of the time. It's very hard to get any kind of 'ridiculous' result.
>>47643247
>This game is absolutely, most certainly not for everyone, and it's definitely not the best choice for everything. That they've got a similar habit of claiming that everyone who doesn't like it has either played it wrong or just "doesn't get it"/is too stupid/"needs to go back to wargames, munchkin" is irritating as hell, too.
I like Fate and still totally agree with this sentiment. Fate can't do everything and trying to do it all with Fate is an exercise in futility, but so much of the fanbase refuses to believe the idea that Fate is anything but the perfect game that sometimes it makes to ashamed to admit I like the game.
It especially doesn't help when the devs themselves seem to be convinced that Fate is absolutely perfect (even beyond a "we want to push our game for marketing reasons" way). Who also, despite publishing the goddamn System Toolkit to give ideas for customizing the game and saying everywhere to do what you want with the system, will shit all over people's work and ideas and tell them they're having badwrongfun if they do anything with the system that's even SLIGHTLY out of sync with their precious "Fate Fractal."
But also, to be fair, there are legitimate times where people have a bad time with Fate and it was legitimately because they were in a game where the GM fucked up everything, like >>47624027, simply because it's really easy to completely fuck the game up if you're not used to how Fate is meant to operate, which can be difficult to grasp with how convoluted the Core rulebook it.
>>47643256
Fucking this. A thousand times this.
>>47643388
I'm wondering if the way the GM ran things, no one tried to invoke or compel to counter an invoke or compel.
>>47643300
You can say a lot of bad things about Vincent Baker, but when it comes to game design and writing rulebooks the man's a fucking luminary. It actually requires some understanding of the theory of game design to grasp just how brilliant he is, same way that to someone who's never really gotten into piano wouldn't be able to truly appreciate the difference between Mozart and Süssmayr. They were both excellent composers, but Mozart's genius was incomparable. His games may not be for everyone, but they're all, including the one allegedly produced in its entirety on a drunken binge, diamond solid and diamond polished. There are no useless mechanics. There are no systemic dead ends. There is no ambiguity. There is no "scratching your head for two hours trying to figure out why the system can't seem to be able to do something it obviously should, then trying to retroactively justify why it really shouldn't". Hop over to the 7th Sea thread currently active for examples of how not to do this.
I also adore his writing style. Turns out you CAN sound intellectual without coming off as a condescending shithead (No, Luke Crane, you are not ze only genius in zis whole fucking industry, and no, everyone else is not doing it wrong).
The only one better than him at both those things is Greg Stolze. The mechanics he makes have a beauty that requires knowledge of programming to understand. You have not seen a system in perfect harmony until you've seen Unknown Armies.
>>47643663
This sounds as more shilling.
>>47643811
Yes, anon. A single shill has been paid by both Vincent Baker and Greg Stolze to sell them on Fate threads, because that's the most sensible way.
Do you also hang about the 7chan PDF threads complaining about how Paizo hires secret agents to shitpost there and "destabilize the pirate community"?
>>47643663
I'm with you on Unknown Armies. I love it; I've never seen a system more in tune with the atmosphere it sets out to create than that. It may not be the objectively best system out there and I'm generally not a fan of d100 games, but for what it sets out to do Unknown Armies is just fucking fantastic.
>>47643811
>No one can like anything, ever
lmao @ Strike! infiltration
It's OK,
Neither system has a general
Speaking of tacticool gameplay, do any of you guys use stuff from the Toolkit SRD for your games?
