>Previous Thread: >>47584806
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>Question
What was the best game you ever played?
>>47593588
>What was the best game you ever played?
Hunter set in 1980s Chile. We were a TFV offshoot aligned with the CIA helping the Pinochet government and secret police fight supernaturals aligned with the rebels and just generally interfering with the country.
Mind 4 patterning to put transpose my conciousness to my granddaughter to control her body right? What do i need to be able to cast spells as if her bidy was mine?
>>47593723
>>47593723
Thats possession a mind 5 spell.
>>47593588
oWoD Mage. Project Invictus.
An internal purge of the technocracy focused on rooting out Pentex infiltration. The ST ran it like Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy meets Lovecraft
>>47593775
How is that Making or Unmaking? Im not deketing or creating minds
>>47593759
What Im an old lady
>>47593819
>Im an old lady
Uh huh, I'm not buying it.
>>47593843
My character is you numbnuts. Shes too old and sickly to get out of bed so she uses her granddaughter.
Any spells in the core you think belong in the wrong practice?
>>47593880
>My character is you
What?
>Shes too old and sickly to get out of bed so she uses her granddaughter
But I'm still young anon..and a male.
>>47593953
My character is, you numbnuts!
>>47594025
Oh. Well, at least now you see the importance of proper punctuation.
>>47593723
That sounds like some kind of lich talk, anon. You wouldn't be a dirty lich, would you?
>>47594233
This is only temporary. Also can I use Space spell to allow casting from my host
I'm gonna be getting into Mage 2E soon and it'll be my first time playing the splat. I think I understand a good amount, but are there any tips I should know going in?
>>47593723
You should use a Mind spell to learn to proofread your posts goddamn,
>>47592469
Yes, if the spell can be cast reflexively. But few spells can.
>>47593779
No, you can use Adamant hand on any spell (or at least, any spell it makes sense to use Brawl, Weaponry, or Athletics as a Yantra on.)
Using multiple Yantras already takes more than one turn to cast the spell. Adamant Hand means that you can punch a guy one turn, then shock him with Forces the next, counting the punch the previous turn as a Yantra on that spell.
What spells can be reflexive with creative thaumaturgy?
>>47594597
I'm fairly certain that as a general rule, casting a spell is always a full action save for special instances.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ5kRyzQkyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZJa1gP_akA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x84_VboNCc
Which set of Arcanum would cover this sort of thing?
How many dots in life to I need for plant minions?
>>47595203
Why do you want plant minions?
>>47595203
What type?
2 (Ruling) lets you puppet them, but you need 3 (Perfecting) to make them more useful than actual plants, and 4 (PAtterning) to get cactus soldies
>>47592747
Shark/skate/ray egg pouches.
>>47592760
Thanks. Also, glad someone likes that I used Majesty. Any thoughts on a final ability? Creative Thaumaturgy seems the way to go, but maybe I should wait until the errata. Also any thoughts on the Session's mechanics?
I feel like the core session's "roll to not bitch out" roll is a bit lame, but I really like my idea for the Initiation.
>>47593634
This is true. Gonna have to cut myself down to make that 1000 word limit for submissions.
>>47593723
Mind 5, the spell Possession, actually.
Since it's a new thread:
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw27KSZGO
Remade the Whipping Boy Legacy for 2e. I'd love some feedback on whether you agree with my choices of Attainments, think the mechanics are interesting or could be done better, and what you think about using Social Maneuvering for resisting sexy torture.
>>47594354
Mages have a regular Virtue and Vice as described in the Chronicles of Darkness Core Rulebook. It's not in the Mage corebook, but they do. Hopefully that'll save you some time when you're making your character.
>>47595643
I still think this song fits them to a T
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puFKPPftM5g
>>47595124
Life for both healing and deliciousness. Maybe Prime for making the water the wateriest water to ever water.
>>47593913
The calling of Spirits/Ghosts/Goetia should probably be Ruling.
>>47593913
Earthquake
Unmaking my fucking ass
Reposting KotE martial arts rules scrubbed, edited and generalized from the core book and companion.
The next revision will have the Rules for Do added in.
>>47595791
Additionally, I'll be working on an expansion and modernisation of the weapons list in the V:tM Revised Storytellers Companion. It's one of the Best treatments of Firearms that I've ever seen in a game and it deserves to be updated and expanded for a post GWoT world.
>>47595725
I know. You've linked it like three times.
>>47595708
That's one of the things that's going to get the errata treatment.
>>47595862
>It's one of the Best treatments of Firearms that I've ever seen in a game
Fucking what? None of the mechanics in oWoD are remotely reasonable.
>post GWoT world
Also what?
>>47595994
In terms of scholarship and real world information on said firearms? It's one of the best and I've seen far worse. Additionally, the ranges are fairly accurate when you take into account that those numbers represent yards.
For example, the statline on a Glock 17 is:
Range 25 (about the limit for a production autopistol)
Damage: 4 (in keeping with other pistols of it's caliber, something a lot of games forget to do.)
Rate: 4 (Faster than other Glocks in a heavier caliber)
Capacity: 17+1 (Accurate and few games get that +1 capacity correct)
Concealability: J (took the time to determine that it is in fact a full sized service pistol.)
The ranged combat rules in oWoD are adequate but by no means exhaustive. They make up for it by doing their homework.
>GWoT
Global War on Terror
>t.range safety officer and infantry combat veteran
>>47596550
And how do you feel about CofD?
Honestly, since literally everything in oWoD is bad, the actual numbers don't really mean anything, that game is swingier than any game besides CthulhuTech. Wouldn't Shadowrun be a much more /k/ friendly game with all it's nitty gritty details? I know it can skew towards tacticool with some of it's gun mods, but still.
>>47593798
Possession has no business being Mind 5, yes, and is Mind 5 because someone just translated it directly from 1e core, where it was Mind 5 (because it's basically just a copypasted version of Dominate 5 from Vampire, and they decided they should both be 5-dot powers.)
>>47593588
>What was the best game you ever played?
This game that totally happened where my character was the best ever and he beated everybody forever
>>47596639
>And how do you feel about CofD?
I don't. WoD: Armory gave me the warm and fuzzies but I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.
I will say that having Ingram MAC-10's and HK MP-5's with the same availability as a Glock 17, LITERALLY the medium reference of handguns (exceptional only in how unexceptional it is) is dumb.
But other than that? Still a really good reference.
>>47596639
Now THIS is the most exhaustive reference ever produced for an RPG but it's fifteen years out of date.
I Wish I could find my copy.
>>47595643
Isn't that Jotaro?
>>47596753
I don't agree with Touhou about a lot of things, but I will say that Storyteller still has a lot of baggage in regards to equipment. They can never tell whether they want a LOT of detail or handwaving. Availability is almost universally ridiculous: a 10$ machete is availability 2, which means anyone with less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle loses a dot of Resources for a month if they buy a machete. There are a lot of little details that shouldn't need to be spelled out. The game isn't mechanically complex or rules hard, but it definitely has a lot of baggage from things that stuck around.
And I will definitely agree that I would have preferred more Conditions and rules for things that keep coming up instead of a page worth of telling me what flashlights do. Pregnancy Conditions have been reprinted in two supplements so far, and Swarm rules were in like five that I know of in 1e. Rules for children would have been nice, or rules for attacking something larger or smaller than you are. The Chase, Social Maneuvering, and Investigation mechanics really bring Chronicles into a better mechanical space than "here's some rules for combat and vague dice rolls for everything else", but they could still be expanded. I mean, Chases and Investigations are things that can definitely be expanded beyond what their names imply, but instead we just got a glossed over batch of rules and then a reprint of some GMC stuff instead of new content.
But you don't do CofD so you don't even care what I'm rambling about.
>>47596819
I feel like for most games your weapons honestly aren't going to have stat lines that are that diverse, because most games don't have enough gradation for weapons in the first place. I mean, in d20 a gun basically does d6, d8 or d12 damage with no real variation. At least from what I recall of Pathfinder's weapons.
>>47596966
Yes.
>>47597022
You're correct. D20 is good for one thing: Fantasy combat and nothing else. They failed to take the sheer lethality of modern combat into account.
Gain a few levels and suddenly it's like LOL ONLY 9MM FAGGIT?
The only reason I reccomend it is because it's the most exhaustive reference that I've ever seen.
As for how oWoD handles it? It's basically "you must have at least this many dots in resources to have a thing."
>>47597022
...because these are one time purchases. If someone asked me to pay rent on a machete, I'd look at him like he had a dick growing out of his forehead.
>>47597261
D20 has numbers bloat, yes.
>>47597283
>>47597261
>One dot is a little spending money here and there. Two is a comfortable, middle-class wage. Three is a nicer, upper-middle-class life. Four is moderately wealthy. Five is filthy rich.
>Every item has an Availability rating. Once per chapter, your character can procure an item at her Resources level or lower, without issue. Obtaining an item one Availability above her Resources reduces her effective Resources by one dot for a full month, since she has to rapidly liquidate funds. She can procure items two Availability below her Resources without limit (within reason). For example, a character with Resources •••• can procure as many Availability •• disposable cellphones as she needs.
This is above and beyond food and rent, but if I make a ten dollar purchase at Walmart, I should not suddenly become destitute for a month as I lose my only dot of Resources.
Meanwhile a Spear is available to anyone but the homeless at Availability 1.
>>47595791
Actual Martial Artist here having a look now
>>47597382
That could be a good system but it needs rebalancing like a junkie needs the h.
>>47595791
>Hard Style
>Shoalin Kung Fu and Wushu
ha ha...no
Also thats a rather small sampling size for martial arts but I am assuming you can pick whatever you want and those are just examples?
You get bonus points for Reactive Strike. Not many games have a rule for counter punching. Though its unfortunate that you cant make a build revolving around it entirely because of the penalty to hit.
Though Honestly the Armory books had a really good comprehensive list of martial arts and melee weapons
>>47597385
Do is tons of fun. You can have any hard or soft style maneuver as well as the Do Maneuvers which are basically reality breaking wire-fu.
>>47597385
No, I'm the martial artist of the thread
>>47597495
BJJ. You?
>>47597492
Lack of a grappling focus is a bit disappointing. But most games dont anyway
>>47596753
Armory is a fantastic book for /k/ommandos. Have you read Armory Reloaded. Its basically an expansion on it.
>>47597476
The main problem is that there's so little gradation and the Availabilities are all fucked.
>>47597541
I'm not a kommando, so Armoury was boring and nothing but meaningless numbers. Reloaded is great.
>>47597485
Ah, I missed that bit. That's copy-pasta'd directly from the entry in KotE. I don't have wushu in the list but I do have Shao Lin Kung Fu listed as a soft style.
I've also considered relisting Tiger Claw as just "Kung Fu, Animal Style."
And yes you can make your own styles, ST dependent. I enforce styles but that's at my discretion. You may choose to do something different.
>>47597141
>Stop spreading this lie.
"Stuff hurting your feelings" isn't a lie. I don't think the devs have ever argued it was anything but S, and more or less the only edition of D&D it comes off as being 'rules light' against is 3rd edition.
When you make a character in most WW/OP systems, you need to carefully consider the attribute + ability pairings of all powers you will start with and intend on obtaining relatively soon, or else you will have to waste a lot of XP, have crippled dice pools, or both.
Just about the only semi free form element in White Wolf I can think of at the moment would be oMage's hazily defined magic system.
>He's literally twisting the wording of rules to argue that they're not clear enough.
In some cases, I'm sure, a la the demon power to break the planet and get a new one, but most of his analysis is spot on. You have even the most tame, indisputable objections (like "when would someone ever raise an attribute when they could raise an arcana?") having people suffer temper tantrums.
Its fine to call him out when he makes egregious mistakes, but so too must I call people out for spreading outright lies like "WW/OP is a rules light, semi-freeform RPG" and people who fly into temper tantrums about "bad roleplaying" regarding the costs of raising an attribute.
>>47597141
But TOaIE literally lets you see/hear from all points in range so it IS extending your senses.
>>47597567
why hate one and not the other?
>>47597577
>I don't have wushu in the list but I do have Shao Lin Kung Fu listed as a soft style.
I must have misread
>>47597567
This.
I run games for a bunch of /k/ommandos and i am not one. so I get really annoyed at their attempts to 'fix guns' all the damn time.
>>47597594
It's not like setting down a camera 10km away, it's like bringing that distant point into line of sight.
The scene you see will still be tiny and indistinct due to your normal vision at such significant distances, but yes, you can still "see" there.
>>47597261
>They failed to take the sheer lethality of modern combat into account.
>Gain a few levels and suddenly it's like LOL ONLY 9MM FAGGIT?
Are you serious? d20 modern has 101 flaws, but a lack of lethality from gun violence isn't one of them. Almost everything has a chance to down you in one hit. Whenever a hit deals above your con score, that means a DC 15 fort save or else you're unconscious and dying. Stat and save boosters are very rare, and people multiclass so much into median or poor fort save classes, that saving throw scores are far lower than in 3e.
>>47597022
PF guns are decently effective, very different from d20 modern, not that I'd defend PF, but ranged touch attacks that can ignore concealment and more with high levels of damage are not bad at all.
>>47597599
Any kommandos out there that want to play WoD? I always wanted to play a militant mage game or something. Or a TFV Hunter game.
>>47597624
Then there's no damn difference between TIaOE and looking out across a city from a tall balcony.
Admit it, Dave screwed up when writing that spell.
>>47593588
V20, Caitiff random Sabbath embrace and other misfits doing shit work for the camies.
Ended fast, but felt deep as fuck.
>>47597658
*TOaIE
>>47597599
You might as well ask the water not to be wet and a crow not to be black.
I personally would work from within the system to build something organic to the system. For example, the M16 entry lists the range as 200 yards (which if we're going for models of a real life M-16's range is fairly accurate for a close range shot.) That's out of a 20 inch barrel. That gives us a hard and fast, if not wholly accurate, ratio of "one inch of barrel length translates to 10 yards of range."
So taking an M4 Carbine (cutdown m16 with a folding stock and shorter barrel and gas system) with a 14.5 inch barrel would give us a range increment of 145 yards, thus reflecting the correlation between barrel length and effective range.
Would it be wholly accurate? No. Different rounds perform differently out of short barrels. But it does give us a hard-and-fast conversion factor.
As a /k/ommando, I cannot deny my autism. But I'm LESS autistic than my fellows.
For we are /k/. You cannot even conceive of what we truly are...
>>>/k/30143714
>>>/k/30144328
>>47597658
Except looking out across a city doesn't let you see around corners.
>>47597758
Exactly. You're sending out your viewpoint. If you're sending out your viewpoint to a distant spot, you're basically scrying from there. If that's not supposed to give you better vision from there...
>>47597597
Because Armoury is a bunch of gun stats and vehicle stats and they're all just meaningless numbers, while Armoury Reloaded is all about fighting styles and beating the shit out of people. Tables and stats don't interest me.
>>47597658
It bends space to allow you to see around corners and turn any distance between you and a target into a straight line. It does not, however, allow you to see forever and have perfect visual clarity. It alters with is IN your range of vision, but it doesn't EXTEND that range.
>>47597648
I don't know how D20 Modern works, but honestly d20 as a system would benefit from not being level based or class based. I'd honestly like a simpler version of Mutants & Mastermind's system without the Toughness Saves (which I like, but aren't appropriate to all games).
Playing Pathfinder whenever I have, I'm always struck with how it would be better without stat bloat or feat taxes. Make everything cost Experience and give players a handful of Experience to create a starting character.
>>47597748
>That gives us a hard and fast, if not wholly accurate, ratio of "one inch of barrel length translates to 10 yards of range."
But you're assuming those two things are hard and fast connected, when more often they aren't.
>>47597748
Those Pyro gloves would make a great hunter weapon if you dont want to carry around a flamethrower. More like a PDW to just spray a vamp if he gets too close.
>>47597786
It's like bending light. You're still seeing the location 50km away around a corner, but you're still seeing it as if it were 50km away.
>>47597807
>Because Armoury is a bunch of gun stats and vehicle stats and they're all just meaningless numbers, while Armoury Reloaded is all about fighting styles and beating the shit out of people. Tables and stats don't interest me.
but muh /k/ autism
>>47597830
If you want to Scry those guys with your normal vision, then learn Apprentice Space and LoS Scry once you've found your target with TOaIE.
There's only so much that Initiate proficiency in an Arcanum can do.
>>47597541
Oh yeah. Grappling is covered in the Main rules but it's pretty bare bones.
Now if you want to get super crazy into it, there's pic related.
Little known fact: WW made the licensed street fighter RPG. When that predictably flopped, they took the system, rewrote it for their main game line and packaged it as a complete, alternate set of rules.
It's literally just a half inch of personal combat and martial arts styles. I personally went with the KotE rules because it gives me more crunch than what's found in the core but nothing nearly as autistic as WoD: Combat. It also has a very novel approach and method to design your own maneuvers if they're not included in the book through a point buy system.
WoD: Combat + Aberrant + Aberrant Player's Guide = WW's Dragonball Z RPG.
>>47597591
Reading these arguments play out is really weird because it's almost note for note a replay of the old arguments that led to the formation of The Forge. "The Storytelling system is way too crunchy and not too interested in storytelling," while less true now than in 2002, is still an argument someone could make.
>>47597807
Because they are. A longer barrel translates to more velocity. The more velocity that a round has leaving the muzzle, the longer it spends in the supersonic range. Once the bullet hits the trans-sonic and then subsonic range of velocities (~1125 fps) it begins to destabilize and gains variance in its point of impact.. after the round slows down to below the speed of sound, basically, the groups that you shoot will begin to open up. This is a common property of all bullets, it just varies with the exact caliber and loading.
>>47597830
I haven't been following this from the beginning, but this is the conclusion I'm coming to
If you use The Outward and Inward Eye(it took me a few minutes to figure out what TOaIE was supposed to be) to look through an Iris, with the +2 Reach effect, I'd rule it as though you're seeing from directly where that Iris leads. If that's on the other side of the world, fine, you still see what's around it as though you had just stepped through it with the spell active.
Same goes for any other sort of spatial warp/shortcut/whatever the +2 Reach effect lets you look through. It changes where you're seeing from, so you see things from that point of view instead of where your eyes are located.
It's unclear whether the actual bouncing-vision effect of TIaOE would work when you look through an Iris, though. I'd go with a yes.
>>47597541
forgot pic
>>47597953
thats a pretty good book but I still think armory is better. I think its the only game out there with rules for zeroing your rifle
>>47597941
Irises are a special case, and kinda unrelated to what was discussed. The +2 reach option to me really just seems like it's opening the Iris like a window to look through. However given the way the spell works, once you're drawing vision through that iris, it can also stretch out on the other side for the rest of your vision.
Say you can see well within 3km, and the Iris is 2km away. Using +2 reach option, you could see fairly well on the other side of the Iris in any direction and past any obstacles as normal for about 1km.
>>47597807
I agree, I'd love to see a level less d20 supplement. I don't think d20 modern is very good system, but lethality is spot on.
>>47597886
I don't view it as a bad thing that its crunchy, its just a thing.
Also, in GNS theory for what its worth (nearly nothing), simulationism is apparently for genre and storytelling too. Narrativism is probably better viewed as "personality based drama."
>>47598048
You're right, the better phrasing is "it's crunchy in a lot of ways that it shouldn't be, and handwaves things where crunch should matter, given what it is trying to simulate". Torchbearer's a good example of a crunchy as fuck game that knows exactly what it does with its crunchy at all times.
>>47598003
V:tM Storytellers companion has it as well.
How the fuck Time Travel works? It's just your mind that goes back or it's all of you and now there are two of you going around? I cannot find It anywhere. Also isn't shifting sands fucking bullshit? If you take a rote you can rewrite two scenes without any cost any time you want. Basically unless they ambush you and kill you before you before you get to act you can just recon everything away. Please tell me I have missed something.
>>47598009
Yeah, fair enough.
I wasn't thinking about stuff like Zoom In that lets you see further away, just the potentiality of using the spell to peak through an Iris before cross through it.
>>47597830
Then the spell shouldn't say "from all directions and from all points" or something like that. It should say something else.
>>47598112
We have no authority on the Temporal Clone/Brainswap effect.
Also yes, most time replacing spells are bullshit powerful, and must be tempered with respect for the GM and plot.
Help! My first-time Mage group is up against an abyssal intruder. What are our options?
>>47598112
Yeah, 2hu talked about Shifting Sands last thread >>47588894
>>47598112
Time Travel is explained at the start of the section on time magic. You travel back entirely, unless you do a conjunctive spell with Mind, but the "present" you return to might not be the "present" you left.
Shiftings Sands is a strong spell, sure, but it's hardly bullshit. It's just Time magic.
The balancing factor is that, until you return to the "present", the spell takes up a spell control slot, and anybody with a dot of Time can attempt to counterspell it, or add at least a dot of Prime and attempt to dispel it, which brings you back to the "present" and erases anything you did.
>>47598160
Why? All it says is "all directions and all points within her sensory range", which if it didn't say "she cannot perceive things farther away than her normal perceptions might allow" would entirely support your position.
But it does.
So it doesn't.
>>47598172
Kill it. Hard. Don't make deals, don't believe its lies.
Don't let it escape, and call for backup if you need it.
>>47598160
>>47598205
Okay, the way I'm thinking the spell works is, it doesn't bend light towards you necessarily. It bends space(as, y'know, a Space spell does), and effectively gives you radar vision--you can bounce your vision around a single corner, but after that, you're fucked.
>>47598172
Listen to him for he speaks the truth.
>>47598260
>Contact with the real world information that these systems attempt to model.
This kills the 2hufag
>>47598219
Shit's dangerous, though. I had to talk my cabal-mates out of intentionally provoking it after it casually hit one of them for 5 lethal damage even when it rolled poorly. Not really sure how to go about killing it.
What magic would be meaningfully useful against an Abyssal entity? Spirit?
Also, we a question came up in our game that we weren't totally sure about: does Mage sight allow you to perceive Abyssal influence, or is there a spell for something like that?
>>47598298
Scelesti plz go.
>>47598205
But your normal perceptions are basically just limited by whatever obstructions there are/the horizon.
If you're seeing from all points and all directions without obstructions, you're basically seeing everything.
>>47598260
You're on the right track, but this is spatial bending, not radar. Space doesn't care about the intervening matter, so it can transpose your vision regardless of what's in the way.
It's a powerful spell, there's no doubt about that.
But the fact is, using the spell unfocussed would be a mental overload on a scale we can hardly comprehend. So you've got to search location by location, which at a distance is hard due to the fact you're basically trying to scrutinise locations from a great distance.
>>47598199
Where It does say you go back entirely? Also from reading shifting sands I didn't understand you go back only for the duration of the spell.
>>47598344
Yeah, you could see wherever, but not in quality.
Human eyes are fairly crap, man.
Not good for detail at any significant distance.
You're not bringing the location to you, you're getting an unobstructed view.
>>47598400
If you're tracing your vision from another point completely, there's no reason why you wouldn't count as if being right in that place for seeing/hearing.
>>47598082
> "it's crunchy in a lot of ways that it shouldn't be, and handwaves things where crunch should matter, given what it is trying to simulate"
How so?
>>47598363
You're not searching location by location. You're seeing everything from all points and all directions SIMULTANEOUSLY.
>>47594079
Kill your self
>>47598430
You're moving that point into your line of sight, sure it might be similar as if you're from that point, in the room, but it's still as if you're perceiving from a distance as per the sentence "she cannot perceive things farther away than her normal perceptions might allow".
DaveB explained that here >>47588918
>>47598488
We know damn well what DaveB said. We're saying that he wrote the spell like shit and should've been more careful with that "from all directions and from all points" said.
>>47598497
You're taking one sentence from the beginning of the spell, and ignoring everything that came after.
Cherrypicking parts of the description to fit your own ends.
I genuinely find that disgusting.
>>47597141
>He's literally twisting the wording of rules
Wow holy shit, he LITERALLY twists the wording! He must be a real life mage.
>>47598527
Read the whole fucking spell. The "from all directions and all points" part goes with the "she cannot perceive things farther away than her normal perceptions might allow" part. Your perceptions are going out as far as you can to the horizon. You're not getting any obstructions in the way.
That's how it's WRITTEN.
>>47598390
It's not that you only go back for the duration of the spell, it's that once you catch up to the "Present", the spell ends, and whatever you did becomes Lasting.
It doesn't explicitly say you go back wholly, but going back to inhabit yourself in the past just isn't covered by the purviews of Time. That would require a Mind spell, with Temporal Sympathy.
There's also the fact that you can go back in time to before you were born, or to places you hadn't been in the past.
To support all that, the chapter fiction talks about a guy who went back in time(sent by his Mentor) to do something, and accidentally cause himself to never be born. Because Magic(as the opening info in the Time section explains, page 186), he's still alive and well.
Whoops, forgot my diagram.
>>47597941
>>47598009
>>47598160
>>47598137
>>47598205
>>47598260
>>47598344
>>47598363
>>47598400
>>47598430
>>47598450
>>47598488
>>47598497
>>47598527
>>47598557
A diagram. Not to scale, but it should make things easier to understand.
Normal, normal, Outward and Inward Eye.
>If you're tracing your vision from another point completely, there's no reason why you wouldn't count as if being right in that place for seeing/hearing.
Because it doesn't extend your sensory range. Also worth noting is that it doesn't see THROUGH walls, it sees AROUND them.
>>47598537
You should know well enough what it means to "twist" wording, and that it has little to do with physical torsion.
>>47598642
Except that's not how far a human eye can see. A human eye can see out to the horizon if unobstructed.
TOaIE as it's currently written lets you see/hear without obstructions AND see/hear from every point then.
>>47598642
As a GM, I would make it impossible to navigate without some kind of difficult skill test.
Because to your character's perception, everything would look straight.
>>47598557
>>47598717
Say you're standing on one side of a wall. You can see that there are posters covering the wall, but you're too far from them to make out what they say, nor can you see past the wall. You use Inward and Outward Eye.
Now you can see past the wall, but you still can't read the posters, nor can you read the sign on the other side of the wall, unless it's got large enough lettering.
>>47598717
>Not to scale
Also, clarity is key. You can't see a penny on the other side of a football stadium, even if you can see the scoreboard.
>>47598728
That's punishing someone for being good at something. This is literally magical. Their mind is capable of processing all of the information accurately.
>>47598642
You don't know what "literally" means.
I think a mage should be able to do everything he wants? Because we are the best?
>>47598642
>>47598748
It doesn't extend your sensory range, yeah. That's true.
Except WITHIN that sensory range, you can see/hear from any point. That's how the spell's written right now, DaveB backpedaling aside.
>>47598787
I agree.
This is why my Mage character is focused on leaning all 10 arcana equally.
eventually he is going to rek everyone's shit
>>47598728
Don't do that, just make it take time.
You've still got to sort through all the information, but you're at least an Apprentice of Space. This kinda shit is your jam.
>>47598333
Anyone have an answer to these questions?
Can Spirit magic deal with Abyssal entities? Does Spirit + Space to create a Ban against the Abyss work?
Also, can Mage sight perceive whether or not an entity is Abyssal in nature, or whether the Abyss has influenced a person?
>>47598825
The Abyss is not a Spirit.
>>47598855
Then is there a type of Magic that IS effective on it?
>>47598810
Same.
>>47598905
Abyss magic
>>47598774
It means "yes, even the word that means 'not figurative' can be used in a figurative manner, and even if that upsets pedantic fucks".
>>47598803
He's not backpeddling. You're choosing to listen to someone who has intentionally misinterpreted wordings.
>>47598825
>>47598855
2e honestly doesn't say, but in 1e it could.
>>47598803
Except your sensory range, when the spell is cast, isn't "to the horizon", it's "as far as you can see before obstructions"
>>47598825
Spirit+Space would probably work to make a Ban against Gulmoth, but not Acamoth.
Spirit magic can affect a Gulmoth, but you don't need Spirit to affect a Gulmoth. Anything that could affect a normal person or object will probably affect a Gulmoth, too, unless they're in Twilight.
Same goes for Acamoth, but replace Spirit with Mind.
>>47598855
>>47598924
Ignore this guy, he's either trolling or doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>47598825
Treated like Goetia and Spirits respectively, so Mind and Spirit would work on them.
Furthermore whether something is Abyssal in origin or influence is "Deep Information" from an attempt of Focused Mage Sight.
>>47598948
>Except your sensory range, when the spell is cast, isn't "to the horizon", it's "as far as you can see before obstructions"
Then the spell doesn't make any fucking sense because it goes PAST obstructions.
>>47598982
The way I think it works, going off the example maze thing above, is that you could see around all those corners directly in your view, but not any others past that.
Like I said, a while ago, it's like a radar sense.
Granted, that doesn't exactly fit the spells description, either, given that it mentions seeing to the far side of a door.
I hope this spell gets fixed in errata.
Aren't we glad to have Aspel back?
>>47599152
I never left. I was just overshadowed.
>>47598982
Not only what >>47599074 says about diminishing returns, but also even if you can see from here to Hong Kong, everything in that direction is still just a featureless blur, so it doesn't matter whether you can technically see it or not, you aren't able to sense or otherwise perceive it as a specific and discernible thing. Or, as Dave said last thread, if you can't use your best common sense, 200 yards is sensory range.
>>47598948
>>47598974
Thank you! I think this clears up most of my basic questions RE: the Abyss.
Still not sure how we're going to deal with the Abyssal monster that turned our Sleeper friend into a statuette, or the evil Mage who's kidnapping people to feed to it, but it's good to know we have options!TFW none of us are Thyrsus :,(
>>47599295
You mean there's a fucking Moros in your group but not a Thyrsus? Bunch of idiots
>>47599295
Doesn't Mind magic work fine on them?
>>47599331
Moros are awesome.
>>47599295
Magic works on creatures from the Abyss. Whether or not they can be controlled like other Ephemeral Entities is up to your ST. Also, really, I'm pretty sure bullets or the Hunter Special would work, too.
>>47599289
Speaking of you. Have you worked on Geist?
>>47599392
I'm with you Moros are great easily my favorite Path. With Thyrsus being my second favorite.
>>47599355
Our Mind Mage tried to read its mind. That went well.
>>47599331
Hey, I didn't choose their characters! At least I was smart and played an Acanthus. :^)
>>47599392
>I'm pretty sure bullets or the Hunter Special would work, too
What's the Hunter Special and does it work on monsters that are also entire houses holding our Sleeper friends hostage?
>>47599468
Reading its mind sounds derpy, but controlling it (at least forcing it to do nothing) or mind blasting it would probably work fine.
>>47599497
Yeah, it was pretty stupid. I'm just worried about how it might retaliate if he tries a Mind-based attack on it. It seems fairly uninterested in outright killing people, but we've seen that it has fairly strong telekinetic powers when it's provoked, at least within its walls.
>The Abyss is the rift between high and low populated by beings that do not and should not exist
>But our magic that comes from the Supernal Realms and practiced in the Fallen World should directly affect it as if it was a normal spirit
Have loved Mage since 1E but shit like whining like a belligerent bitch that "my magic SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS!" is why I've always hated 95% of Mage players. They're grognards.
>>47599576
But... nobody's said anything like that?
>>47599611
Read the thread idiot. Even OP fell for this meme. >>47598974
>>47599074
>>47599289
The real problem is the 'see from all directions and from all points' line which conflicts with the 'doesn't extend your sensory range' line.
>>47599413
No. It's a daunting project, and hard to get inertia back on it; plus I'm just absolutely terrible at time management. At the moment when I'm not shitposting here or procrasturbating, I'm trying to collect my thoughts on a Hunter submission.
>>47599468
The Hunter Special is an SUV at ramming speed.
>>47599576
>>47599650
If you were a fan since 1e, you should know that Intruders use and are constrained by the Fallen World's laws just as much as magic is. The core Scelesti write up even gives them Death and Spirit specifically to manipulate Abyssal Intruders, though this is really more to do with 1e's handling of all non-Ghost Twilight beings as being Spirit. Abyssal Entities are not actually immune to magic.
>>47599659
Okay, then.
Dave, if you're still hanging around, could you please errata that to "see from all directions TO all points within her sensory range"? It's been confusing people.
>>47599659
Implicit is "within all points in your sensory range". Get a grip.
>His armor (still 4/3) applies to aggravated damage attacks.
Is this a typo? It's from the satiety expenditure effect of unbreakable from Beast. My understanding is that armor protects from agg unless the damage source says otherwise.
>>47599722
Whats this hunters submission then?
>>47599722
Dave is crying in his doghouse like a little girl
>>47599734
It's true that it only covers your sensory range. BUT it also goes through obstructions, so...
>>47599769
http://theonyxpath.com/hunter-the-vigil-2nd-edition-open-call-and-thoughts-on-hiring/
Another open call was announced today: http://theonyxpath.com/changeling-20thanthology-all-call/
>>47599767
Armour DOESN'T protect against Aggravated, only Lethal and Bashing. This, though, is WoD's biggest real issue: It's edited for shit.
>>47599769
theonyxpath.com/hunter-the-vigil-2nd-edition-open-call-and-thoughts-on-hiring/
Still deciding.
Assassin's Creed inspired Conspiracy that delves into their ancestors' memories (and might be Proximi); Scientology/Universal Brotherhood type cult/church Conspiracy that's inspired by Tagers from CthulhuTech; or a Compact made up of people who were the "Final Girl" in Slasher attacks, with a Tactic to "deputize" people as Hunters.
>>47599915
But it does according to Dave. http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47059905/#47061173
>>47599830
You can hear around obstructions or smell around them.
Get a grip.
>>47600125
Oh, my bad. Maybe I'm misremembering something from 1e.
>>47600202
You're misremembering something from oWoD/Exalted, I think.
>>47600202
Funny thing is The 2e books don't answer this question at all. I've spent days trying to find a solid answer to how armor interacts with agg but it doesn't seem to exist. That post from Dave is the only thing I've found.
>>47599915
>Armour DOESN'T protect against Aggravated, only Lethal and Bashing.
[citation needed]
That's 1e shit.
>>47600199
You can literally see into the ground with TOaIE.
>>47600272
Well, other than explosives that we won't see until Hurt Locker (because they had to cut out important and useful mechanics from the corebook to make room for REPRINTING THE GMC) there's not really any mundane source that deals aggravated damage other than ST fiat and super high impact.
>>47600359
Some fighting merits deal agg damage!
>>47599576
>>47599650
You seem to be retarded. Besides that you're canonically wrong and that Diet Nephandi had spirit effects specifically for use on Abyss denizens, if spirit doesn't work on weird otherwordly ephemeral beings, then literally what is the point of it? Just get Mind, then you can... use it on Abyss niggers.
>>47600272
>>47600359
>>47600520
>General armor applies to all attacks. Each point of general armor reduces the total damage taken by one point, starting with the most severe type of damage.
Since it doesn't specify that it only or doesn't include a damage type, like Ballistic armor does, I'm inclined to say it applies to all damage types.
So my group is starting a new fairly high powered nwod campaign. So far I know I'm playing a demon and two of my fellow players are playing fire mages of some sort. Is there anything I should plan on doing or taking in order to stay on their level?
>>47600883
>if spirit doesn't work on weird otherwordly ephemeral beings, then literally what is the point of it?
Uh... dealing with Spirits?
>>47601168
Not really a such thing as "fire mages", just Mages who like fire. You're a Demon, though. You'll be just fine.
>>47601168
>>47601213
Well, you're a Demon, which means you're always *capable* of being on their level, or high above it.
The problem is, any time you do anything at their level, you're risking attention from the God-Machine, unless the ST is throwing the Demon cosmology out the window.
>>47601213
>Uh... dealing with Spirits?
Yeah, like, you know, evil incorporeal entities of malign intent. 100% different from Spirits.
>>47601168
the thing that lets you swap two targets retroactively is VERY VERY VERY powerful
>>47601315
What part of that is different to like 90% of Spirits?
>>47601168
>Forces mages
The weakass plebs of Awakened society.
>>47601397
It's hard to cast on people when no light reaches your eyes.
>>47601430
Didn't think to deny someone sight with force. I'll keep that in mind.
>>47601430
I know, right?
>>47601168
>fire mages
lmao are they also hot-blooded redheads? tell them to have some respect for themselves
>>47601430
>>47601747
>>47601753
Fate can also blind people at 2 dots.
>>47601783
I know that.
>>47601783
That Fate is bullshit powerful doesn't take away from the capabilities of other Arcanum.
>>47601783
>>47601958
>Implying you couldn't just blind someone by shining an intense light into their eyes with Forces 2
>Or just make light avoid their eyes, also at Forces 2
>>47601370
That's my point. If you're going to have 1/10th of Arcanum be reserved for incorporeal, usually hostile, malevolent otherworldly beings that aren't ghosts, it'd better work on them.
>>47601958
How come Fate and Time are bullshit strong now? What makes them that way?
>>47602299
They are no more bullshit strong then any other Arcane. After all mind allows infinite willpower. Spirit/Death/Mind can give infinite mana.
>>47602368
Looks like 2hu thinks Fate and Time can get infinite Mana/WP too. >>47577040
>>47602368
Yeah, no, Fate's getting a better deal than Forces. Chaos Mastery VS Thunderbolt for the best example.
>>47602491
Chaos Mastery is going to get nerfed/errata'd into the ground, and I think after all of the questions and discussions, both Time and Fate are going to get a hard read through by Dave.
>>47602442
I think his ways is through exceptional success. My way is through the Making spell to create essences for the respective ephemeral creatures. (Mind/Goetic, Spirit/Spirit, Death/Ghost) and just give that essences to your familiar.
Simple, easy, but you do have to wait for mastery.
>>47602590
The gift sneaked itself on ignore it
>>47602709
>ignoring garou
>>47603034
If you try hard enough, you can.
>>47603469
If you do, you get eaten.
>>47595739
>Maybe Prime for making the water the wateriest water to ever water.
This made me laugh for no apparent reason.
So I'm thinking about sneaking a Demon into Mage, does anyone have any idea how Sympathy works with Demonic Covers?
So I was thinking of doing an Ascension 2e Game (you read that right.), and since I'm doing something that weird already I figured I'd make my own weird hybrid magick system.
Pretending you were playing this game (and had any interest it to begin with), if I were to hand you this sheet as a player, would you be able to understand your limitations based on dots?
I'm not looking for accuracy to the rules, just level of clarity. Shoot your criticisms at me.
>>47604301
To add onto this, what kind of abilities could a Demon use to convince mages that they are a sleepwalker rather than a Demon?
>>47604301
Your sympathies are limited to the sympathies of whatever your cover at the time is.
>>47604476
Rely on your Cover, avoid using powers. When you do, use a LOT to obscure the Mystery and blame it on someone else.
>>47604476
Whenever a supernatural power is targeting them, they roll Cover to determine whether or not it sees them as human. Also of note, Cover is used as a Resistance stat. For Mage/Demon Crossover, you may actually want to have Demons Withstand using whatever their Cover rating is, or roll Cover and add the result to their Withstand. Or I'm misremembering that ability. I'm honestly too lazy to go look it up.
If you're not running Demon and no one is playing a Demon, though, use your best judgement on things, and use Dread Powers, Spells, and Numina to simulate what the Demon can do, while still keeping in mind what kind of things the Unchained are capable of.
Why is Mage 2e suddenly so focused on the "Evil magical tyrants are oppressing the world into a lie of mundanity, and it is up to the much more enlightened 'good mages' to fight such tyranny!" theme now? Is this oWoD?
>People imagine that the world they can touch and see is real — more real than pure concepts. The abstract only exists to define the concrete. This world is all there is, a cruel, oppressive regime that grinds souls down with a thousand tyrannies. A whispering voice in the back of the head saying, You’re worthless. You’re only human. Don’t look. Concentrate on surviving the here and now.
>It’s a Lie. A falsehood, created by invisible enemies from the symbolism of oppression and the Paradoxical energies of an Abyss of untruth. Mages Awaken when they confront the Lie, when they look deep inside themselves, or are shocked outside of themselves and see past the Lie to the symbols beneath. They call this Tapestry of hidden truth the Supernal World, and the concrete universe around them the Fallen World.
>Despite their Gnosis, however, mages are trapped in the Fallen World. They can look at the Supernal, but not touch. They can see how the symbols of the Supernal inform the Fallen World, but they can’t become those symbols themselves, and experience the universe as pure magic. They do, however, have evidence that something does — the Supernal has inhabitants of its own, entities of pure magic, and over the centuries mages have realized that those they see are only the tip of the iceberg.
>Deep in the unseen Supernal, tyrannical beings that mages call Exarchs have created the Lie to keep humanity both vulnerable to and ignorant of their influence.
>>47604476
When any ability is used to see if the demon is anything but human. THe demon rolls their cover, If the demon has any success then the ability perceives the demon as human.
This also work on abilities that would reveal the demon by proxy and excluding them.
Such as a power read humans minds in an area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHMJCUmq28
So, would you use Space or Forces to affect a quantum computer?
>>47604635
The Exarchs have always reigned. Have you read the Seers of the Throne book?
>>47604518
>>47604577
>>47604646
Not the first anon, but could you use Prime to affect a Demons covers?
>>47604675
Yes, but "Magical tyrants are oppressing the world into mundanity!" was a downplayed theme in Mage 1e, whereas this is in the introduction of Mage 2e.
>>47604690
I don't think so. That like effecting humanity for vampires or a werewolves harmony. Namly it's not within the power of mages to mess with.
>>47604753
But would the Demon ping on Prime Mage Sight?
>>47604690
I'm 90% certain the demon gets to choose to let it happen and keep up the cover or resist as a demon
How do the vampires, werewolves, changelings, sin-eaters, etc. etc. of a city stop the mages from retroactively turning them all into pawns with Time magic?
>>47604777
The mage would attempt to use mage sight to identify the demon. The demon in turn would roll cover. If the demon have even a single success then the Mage will read the demon as a normal human.
>>47605009
Politics. Mosr supernatural have a none aggression pacts with other sups, mostly because it simply not worth it.
>>47597697
>V20
What's your opinion about the revised and the 20th anniversary editions?
Is V20 "better"?
>>47604635
"The world is a Lie" has literally been a thing since the first corebook.
Also, if you actually read it, the Orders really don't care about the Seers except insofar as the Exarch's will gets in the way of their own shit. For the most part they don't actually *actively* try to stop the Seers. In fact, most Mages don't even try for Ascension, either. They're more concerned with their own day to day lives or even mundane social and political power that has nothing to do with obtaining Godhood. But, again, even since the original corebook a strong theme of the game was that the world is a Lie, they were just really bad at conveying that, since the original corebook was bad at literally everything.
That said, I do keep semi-trollingly calling Mage an SJW game. You see all the problematic truths.
>>47604690
If the ST says so, sure.
>>47604753
Actually you can do that. It would be a Mind ability. Just fuck someone's emotional state up. Once you know someone is a Demon, you could probably mess with their Cover using Prime (if you rule that the God-Machine is Prime) or Space (since the Cover is all about social connections and Sympathy).
>>47605009
In addition to Politics, it's honestly pretty difficult and time consuming to do that in the first place, and as has been pointed out numerous times, killing someone with magic is not at all difficult. Honestly, killing someone without magic isn't at all difficult.
>>47598112
Shifting Sands don't undo your wounds.
>>47598172
How creative is your GM? The more creative he is the more you need to stay away from the thing until you get enough intel.
>>47605527
That's true, wouldn't you need to combine Life with Time to rewind your body to before it was injured?
>>47605554
That's just Life. You can make a combined Time+Life spell to get both effects. Just hope the damage wasn't resistant.
>>47599295
The evil Mage is a weak spot. If you can capture and interrogate them you might learn something new.
As for the Spirit magic, a lot depends on how your GM interprets the rules. Gulmoth are reality-glitches that can comprise of any Arcanum, probably. On the other hand, many people interpret that one sidebar as stating that Gulmoth are affected by Spirit.
Still, as others said, it can be affected by other spells. If it has a location then maybe it can be placed under a Ban. If it has a body, it can be damaged (probably a bad idea). If it has an agenda it might be predicted with Time.
If you manage to contain you can still count yourself lucky. Also, call backup if you can. A friendly Mysterion/Guardian/Arrow/Fang of Mara will be happy to help. For a price.
Are there any new news about white wolf or paradox?
>>47605365
>killing someone with magic is not at all difficult
Retroactively making people your minions isn't something non-mages can do easily.
>>47605709
What are you doing to make that happen?
>>47601397
>Forces mages
>The weakass plebs of Awakened society
If you truly believe that, you have a shocking lack of imagination.
Forces is far more than just fireballs and invisibility.
For instances, Forces is the Arcanum that primarily controls anything electronic or computerized, and such effects are mostly achieved at low levels.
The fact that such a mage can also control everything from kinetic energy and temperature to frigging gravity and radiation is just a bonus.
However, admittedly one of the weak spots of forces is that the mage often really needs to incur spell penalties or additional Reach for additional and advanced area of effect in order to productively use the relevant spells, no less adequately demonstrate both the brutality and finesse of the Arcanum.
In fact, Froces crappy and nearly useless 2 dot Arcanum Attainment should be replaced with something like the equivalent Matter attainment, permitting use of a point of mana for Advanced Scale instead of a Reach.
>>47605788
Could you use Force (Compelling) to affect tension in muslces and make people randomly ejaculate as their muscles spasm?
>>47605809
Forces cannot directly affect living processes. That is the purview of Life.
However, since Forces controls vibration and heat, a myriad of possibilities remain viable.
>>47605839
Well then it can't do anything but fireballs since everything will require either life or matter
>>47604690
Honestly, a Demon's actual cover is such a horrid mishmash of concepts from a supernal perspective that I don't think any single, or even pair of arcana could do it.
Consider that a cover is a number of fully realised ever shifting aspects of the fallen world that come into confluence to prevent any ability of any kind, even completely non-magical ones from detecting the demon inside. When active, it is a completely real physical object identical to a human being.
The only 'vulnerability' it has beyond the mere chance of a cover roll failing is that the Demon's physical body is folded into the spiritual hole left in it by the absence of its soul, or else something carefully engineered by the god machine to replicate that void if its a non-human cover.
Spells that soul marks or whatever would be just as susceptible to spoofing as any other, but actually attempting to dislodge, damage, or remove the soul of a cover, might transform the demon out of its cover forcibly if they aren't withstood.
To store, operate or utilise a cover collected by a Demon as a Mage, I would say you would need a spread of every single arcanum simultaneously. Because a cover is utterly comprehensive, it leverages the fullest extent of the Fallen World's concepts. Trying to handle it with one arcanum is going to be like trying to hold up a wedding cake with no platter under it by hand.
>>47605809
Sounds like a too fine control for Forces. You need to use Life.
>>47605845
Did you even read what he said? Forces controls your fucking computer.
>>47605850
Like I said, in Mage terms, it would be covered by Space, because it's made up of Sympathies.
>>47605845
Fire is connected to oxidation of material compounds, so Forces can't do fireballs either. Just putting this out there.
>>47605862
So Forces is literally useless, and Prime has been nerfed beyond recognition
Why does Dave hate Obrimos
>>47605845
>Well then it can't do anything but fireballs since everything will require either life or matte
Huh?
Mage 2e is not classic Ascension. There is generally no need no need for conjunctive Arcana for effects.
A mage can certainly use Forces against a living entity without any issue. However, often the intended effect must be accomplished indirectly. For instance, Forces couldn't be used to directly cause a heat attack in an living being, as that is the purview of Life, but readily could accomplish the same intended effect by increasing the heat, gravity, etc. on someone.
>>47605898
He said I can't cotrol tension (a force) in muscles because that's life. If that's the case, then affecting anything is going to require life or matter because those are the things forces act on
>>47605862
Well okay, maybe the wouldn't be a fireball, with Forces, you would be drawing the head energy from your surroundings and concentrating into a single point, and then hurling it at someone.
Does that curb your rampant autism?
>>47605913
I was egging the other guy on. Relax.
>>47605856
But its so much more than sympathies. Its PHYSICAL MATTER. SPIRITUAL MATTER. It isn't just that your cover causes you to have an association with the guy you retroactively have always bought a hotdog from every afternoon at 2pm for the last 2 years, it causes an apartment that previously didn't exist to be filled with shitty furniture and amenities, as well as a couple of discarded hotdog wrappers stuck behind some of the furniture which forensics would determine have been there for over a year. You don't merely appear to have a brain, there is an actual human brain in your body fully capable of thinking and feeling and it is what is in control of your flesh, its just that everything it thinks and feels is orchestrated by the demon manually and arbitrarily.
Computer databases are rewritten so that your car is registered, and you got your drivers license back in high school.
Depending on what kind of cover you spring for, a changeling seer suddenly remembers how they tricked you into a supernatural oath a couple of months back. This oath is now real, and enforced by the Wyrd if either of you break it.
If your cover rating is at fucking MAXIMUM several ghosts are about to have their entire identities rewritten by infrastructure reality edits so that they can function as your dead parents.
Mastigos here, laughing at all of you
>>47605894
But Prime is better now!
>>47605924
>several ghosts are about to have their entire identities rewritten by infrastructure reality edits so that they can function as your dead parents.
>MY PARENTS ARE DEAAADDD!"
>"...You don't have parents."
>*ding*
>"I do now. and guess what, THEY'RE DEAAAADDD!"
>>47605904
That's not how the Arcana work (as I explained in the comment). I would guess you're still employing a old Ascenion/Sphere mindset.
Forces can control tension (as well as all heat, kinetic energy, etc.)
Such forces can be used against a living being to accomplish your intended sexual effect. However, it could be done far more easily and directly with Life.
In fact, Mage 2e repeatedly emphasizes that the same effect can be accomplished with different Arcana, with varying levels of difficultly,
>>47605741
Fate 4 Strings of Fate + Time 2 Temporal Sympathy attainment. Whack them with it to cause them to become your minion retroactively, or at least to join your faction. So, for instance, if you're in a gunfight with a member of the Seers of the Throne, you could cast that on them, so that they wind up meeting with someone from the Free Council who'd be interested in initiating them. As a result, they never joined the Seers, and history alters itself to fit.
>>47605809
Sure. You're basically hitting them in the crotch with a taser, though, so they might not be thankful for it.
>>47605924
>infrastructure reality edits
To quote Booker Dewitt when he sees a statue in Columbia change from one Lutece to another.
>"hmm"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cb96qvTWGI
>>47605934
>But Prime is better now!
Prime is *different* now. FIFY.
It's got the new "truthiness" abilities, but there are only a few examples, and they are mostly underwhelming. The rest of Prime is very circumstance dependent and purview limited, often even more than Spirit or Death.
Notably, the new platonic forms and eidelons are demonstrably weaker and less impressive (and Mana expensive!) than the old Prime 1e phantasms. Additionally, there isn't a single example spell that permits the acquisition of free mana, despite mana being under Prime's purview and its emphasized scarcity in 2e (although such a spell is included in Death 3 - Devouring the Slain).
>>47605971
shit game
>>47605924
It's physical matter that's been rewritten to conform to the connections that you've crafted. Covers are all about Relationships. Also, for all the talk of Low Cover meaning your character's apartment is in a room that doesn't fit the space and their clothes are all the same suit, the actual mechanics for Cover don't actually support that. You can't gain physical objects or create any sort of "spiritual matter". If you want Cover to have a house, you need to bargain for a House. Cover doesn't even rewrite memories of anyone not directly involved. If you bargain for Bailey's girlfriend, Bailey's girlfriend thinks you've always been together, but her parents are going to ask "well what ever happened to Bailey?" Hell, her photos won't even change.
One of the big things I wish Demon went into more detail about (and it may, I just haven't poured over everything) is how to handle Cover within the narrative. I'm still not even sure how a Cover gets its appearance without you making a Soul Pact.
>>47605945
Strings of Fate doesn't actually force anything. It just provides opportunities. It might make them go down a different path. Or all the opportunities to join the good guys might turn them further to the Seers.
How does CofD Mage 2e sympathy work?
In 1e it was a dice penalty, don't get how the new system works. It also says that knowing someone's name is a yantra but that you don't get bonuses for it, but it also says it gives a bonus
>>47606564
Spells need 1 Potency to take effect.
Depending on if Potency or Duration is primary, your spell with either start with Potency 1, or Potency equal to your dots in the highest Arcanum used in the spell.
Countering this, is Withstand. Say you want to make a guy shit his pants, it'll usually be the Potency of the spell facing off against a mental attribute, like Resolve. You reduce potency by Withstand, if you've still got some Potency left the spell takes place.
Sympathy requires a sympathetic yantra to work, but it lets you cast against people you can't see or touch, based on your personal connection to them, or the connection of something else you have with you. This applies additional Withstand based on the strength of this connection.
Say you cast a Potency 4 spell against a guy with Resolve 3, and a Sympathy Withstand of 4 (you don't really know him at all, even his name). That 7 reduces your spell to Potency 0, meaning the spell fails and the guy does NOT shit his pants.
>>47606880
Oh, so hey just changed the dice penalty on your roll to a bonus on their "defense"?
How about the Yantra bonus. It says Material Sympathy (say a recent photo) ives a +2 bonus. But then it goes on to say you have to use a sympathetic yantra and it gives no bonus when used
>>47606922
Pretty much.
Sympathy is something anyone can use to boost their attempt to cast at someone.
Draw a shitty picture of them and use that, and you garner a +1 die modifier to cast at them.
However should you want to use Sympathetic Range, as per the Space 2 attainment, that Sympathetic yantra which would otherwise provide its bonus goes to establishing that connection with the individual.
>>47606971
Ooh
If I have two pictures, can I use one to establish a connection and another to get a bonus?
>>47606987
Can't use the same Yantra twice.
Though really the benefit is comparable to High Speech and worse than a decent Mundra.
That being said, if you're wanting to cast a spell on a friend, combine it with High Speech for a quick and easy +4 dice to any given spell at the low, low cost of a few strands of hair and the use of both Yantras.
>>47607016
Cool, thanks bruh.
If I wee converting this forother creatures that can cast at distance, since they don't use MAge terminoloy, would converting 1 increased Withstand into a -2 to their dicepool sound right. The logic being increasing Potency by the one needed to counter the withstand is a -2
>>47607016
Actually, given that a physical part of someone's being counts as being Strong sympathy, AND can be used as a Sympathetic Yantra, sympathetic range stays easy as hell to abuse with a lock of hair.
Just cast Stolen Threads on the hair, then cast away with a maximum additional Withstand of 2 (1 for Strong connection, one for probably not knowing Sympathetic name).
>>47607034
Additional Potency (to beat Withstand) costs -2 per level, so yeah, sure.
What creature are you converting this for, if you don't mind me asking?
>>47607039
>Stolen Threads
Borrow Threads really, though really when has that spell ever been used benevolently?
>>47607045
Purified, they use a modified version of the mage 1e table
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l_4BPpPGkc
I personally think the demons in this could work rather well as Goetia.
>>47604367
I think so. About the only unclear aspect is healing. Congrats, you've done a better reference sheet than Ascension proper.
>>47596639
>Stery-Aug
I always cringe a little when I see this. And I have seen someone report that on the onyxpath forums, but they ignored it...
I also don't understand why remington m-700 has hyphen an m870 doesn't. Can't they make it consistent ffs?
>>47601243
That said Demon has few areas where he isn't that good for instance dealing with beings in twilight.
>>47605992
Exactly this stuff confuses me about Demon.
Also some of those powers that make gross changes to reality as kind of side effects.
In a way it's even more complicated than Mage.
