Why Even Have Walkers Edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
>Novels (Working link as of 02/02/2016)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
>>47592903
Why do only the tiles with the chikin have fishface?
>>47592903
Walk on this DICK
>unzips docc
Don't know if any of you care but Dawn of War 3 is going to be show at E3 on the 11th.
>>47592976
RTS a shit
>>47592955
Shitty memes come in waves.
>>47592987
I'm sorry.
>>47592908
What are you talking about? Neither of the rulings have anything to do with anything that I've said.
>>47592903
remove chikin
nerf Tau
nerf Eldar
nerf Marines
remove robotic monstrous creatures
>>47593043
Buff Orks
Buff Chaos
Buff Tyranids
Make Warhammer 40,000 Great Again
>>47592987
>RTS a shit
Whats the matter?
Baby needs his phases?
Too slow, old man?Can you evenMOBA
>>47593057
>Buff Orks
>Buff Chaos
>Buff Tyranids
No
Leave those as is, and buff down
Don't inflate power levels and model counts more than they already have been
>>47593057
>>47593107
This guy gets it.
Whenever I hear someone saying their super heavy should cost as much as a WK by means of lowering the SH I just shake my head.
"Ork boyz should be half the points"
Maybe they should just be better
>750 point game
>playing Space Wolves
In such a small game, what can I do against my opponent's Flyer(s)?
Put my Troops in Razorbacks and give each those OUO Missiles with infinite range and hope it blows them up?
I'm toying around with a cheap HQ, two squads of 9 and 10 Grey Hunters (with the Razorbacks as transports), and fully decked out TWC with THammers and Storm Shields.
But like I said, I am a little worried I'll just get blown up and be unable to touch his Fly shit.
Do you like ranged weapon types as there are, or do you think the system should be changed?
By that, I of course mean assault / rapid fire / heavy / etc.
>>47593107
Whole game needs a rebalancing. Some of the weaker books have near perfect internal balance but are shit because the game is unbalanced in it's approach between assault vs shooting and one codex's power level vs another's.
>>47593104
I play Warhammer not Unitspammer 2015
>>47593129
>750 point game
>against my opponent's Flyer(s)?
Smack them off the table and tell them you arent even at a 1000points. No one should have a flier yet alone multiple fliers. Most of us at my shop start bringing one at 1000 but you see superheavies by 1500, sometimes even 1250.
>>47593107
>Buff Tyranids
>No
Do you enjoy seeing 4 Fly Tyrants every game?
I suppose buffing the nids is the wrong wording. They need internal balance changes more than anything.
>>47593159
>Warhammer not Unitspammer 2015
>not Unitspammer 2015
>2016
>7e
Come on now.
>>47593159
>not Unitspammer 2015
Hows it feel to lose games or play in the kiddie pool?
>>47593134
I think rapid fire should be brought back to how it used to be, where moving limited the weapons abilities. Salvo should be brought into use more as well.
>>47593139
>>47593175
Yes, internal balance is a problem.
My point is that lowering the top books is better than raising the bottom books, because the D6 resolution mechanic falls apart when numbers get too high (see: abundance of AP2's effect on the game).
>>47593187
Honestly I don't really want to play 7th ed 40k, it's only that I have to thanks to everyone else doing so. When I get my own table set up in my house the old books are getting dusted off for sure.
>>47593206
I'll leave all the summoning shit to AoS'ers. but you can have your fun.
>>47593164
I was opposed to Flyers at that level but he insisted since he just finished building his Valkyrie and is excited.
We're doing one 750 no Flyers game and one 750 Flyers allowed game tomorrow and I'm just worried I'll get wrecked for the Flyer game.
I suppose I could just be a smart ass and field a Knight. But who to ally it with? :^)
>>47593227
That picture is incredibly unnerving.
>>47593219
>summoning shit
My last three games have been against:
Tyranids Spamming Hive Tyrants
Ravenwing Spamming Black Knights and Grav Bikers
Leman Russ Spamming IG
Is putting Havocs in a Rhino a bad idea?
>>47593107
>No
Anon it makes no snese to make everything shit.
The top teir codexes are for the most part well written codexes. They are what every codex should be like: many options for units, reasonable unit prices (except for stuff like the wraithknight), and the ability to feild most any unit and not get tabled.
Dragging codexes down is just retarded. Granted, bringing all the dexes to levels above the cirrent top tier is also stupid. They all need to be brought to the level and quality the current top teir is on.
Also, what the hell do you mean don't inflate the model count? 40k has allowed basically any model count for a long long time. Don't tell me your one of those idiots who think it's supposed to be a small scale skirmish game only.
>>47593258
>Is putting Havocs on he Field a bad idea?
Yes.
Is greentide viable? Want a feral orc army, maybe supported by some mek/steam guns
>>47593159
>unitspammer 2015
Firstly, it wouldn't be unit spammer 2015. It's 2016 anon.
Secondly, so what you're saying is you only know the kiddie way of playing RTS games
>>47593304
Sure, I know I hate facing large hordes, it just isn't what I am prepared for with my lists since I never face them.
Get a squigoth if you are serious
>>47593008
what FAQ is he talking about?
>>47593107
hey weak armies, you're units will still not be able to do the things you want them to do, but at least everyone else will be pissed off that they don't have their cool shit either.
Everyones happy.
>>47593227
Valkyrie sucks anyhow. Let him bring the bird
>>47593399
Who are?
>>47593260
>Anon it makes no snese to make everything shit.
>The top teir codexes are for the most part well written codexes. They are what every codex should be like: many options for units, reasonable unit prices (except for stuff like the wraithknight), and the ability to feild most any unit and not get tabled.
That's all unrelated to power level. Many options and balanced point costs are possible at any level.
>Dragging codexes down is just retarded. Granted, bringing all the dexes to levels above the cirrent top tier is also stupid. They all need to be brought to the level and quality the current top teir is on.
Quality, yes, definitely. Level, why?
Let me put it this one. Two units have the same points costs and statline. However, one is AP6 and one is AP3. Obviously, that's garbage. All I'm saying, is instead of making them both AP3 or AP4, instead make them both AP5 or AP6. Because 40k uses a D6 as its resolution mechanic, it suffers from blanket power creep very easily.
>Also, what the hell do you mean don't inflate the model count? 40k has allowed basically any model count for a long long time. Don't tell me your one of those idiots who think it's supposed to be a small scale skirmish game only.
I mean don't balance by slashing point costs without changing anything else, thereby making a normal sized army $600. Not that buffing lower tier codexes would necessarily do this, but it's a possible pitfall.
>>47593399
The fact that GW makes some units unique by penalizing them doesn't have anything to do with overall power levels.
>>47593355
The 40k Facebook page has been putting out rough drafts for a new round of FAQ's.
>>47593458
Sorry, what Artillery update in the FAQ is he talking about. I don't remember reading anything about artillery in there
The Knights of Crail (Progenitor: Blood Angels)
A Knights of Crail army is selected using the rules in Codex: Blood Angels
We Stand and Fight: Models with Chapter Tactics (Knights of Crail) cannot voluntarily Go To Ground and may not choose to automatically fail a Morale Test. However, they ignore all negative modifiers to their leadership values, regardless of cause.
The Shining Bulwark: Any Tactical Squad Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant with Chapter Tactics (Knights of Crail) may take a Power Sword and Storm Shield for 10 pts. In addition, Space Marines and Space Marine Veterans may take Combat Shields and Power Swords for 10 pts if their Sergeant has done the former.
Do these seem balanced?
>>47593258
They're the only unit in the CSM army that has Skyfire though. Am I better off using a Heldrake with a Hades Autocannon?
Rate my thirty second rebalance. I only did a handful of codexes, you'd need to do the others too, obviously.
All sergeants have +1 to Ld, A, W, and cost 10 pts extra.
Tactical Marine (10 pts)
T4 WS4 S4 I4 A1 BS4 W1 Ld9 3+
Bolter: 24" S4 AP5 Salvo 1/2
Ork Boy (5 pts)
T4 WS3 S4 I3 A1 BS2 W1 Ld6 6+
Shoota: 18" S3 AP- Assault 2
Slugga: 12" S3 AP- Pistol 1
Firewarrior (7 pts)
T3 WS2 S2 I2 A1 BS3 W1 Ld7 5+
Pulse Rifle: 24" S4 AP5 Salvo 1/2
Guardsman (6 pts)
T3 WS3 S3 I2 A1 BS3 W1 Ld7 5+
Lasgun: 24" S3 AP6 Assault 1
>>47593107
Orks, Tyranids, and Chaos need buffed. DEldar need slightly buffed. Eldar, Tau, and Space Marines (Grav Guns and Formations) need nerfed. Necron formations and Gauss Weapons need adjusted, as does Malific Daemonology and a handful of other psychic powers.
>>47593494
10pt powerweapon/shield combo is likely too cheap
>>47593494
>Power Sword and Storm Shield for 10 pts
Maybe 15-20 pt then keep the 10pt per after but 10pt base for searge is too stronk
>>47593471
Two part, crew can't give their gun cover and they don't get t7 for purposes of ID.
Mainly hurts Mek guns though.
>>47593525
Don't CSM get Soulgrinders?
>>47593527
>marine stays the same but drops 3 points
>ork boy drops 1 point but loses 1ws, 1 attack, and 1s on all infnatry guns,
please stop
>>47593527
>I3
>Ork Boy
At what point limit is it acceptable to have ONE squad of las-centurions?
>>47593555
People were doing that? but why.
Vedros PDF out yet for the enjoyment of non-American derphammer variant enthusiasts?
>>47593566
The same point limit where you can affordably buy them a transport.
Usually I see cents from 1+ onward.
>>47593494
>30 points of wargear on sergeants for 10
>tac squads with FC (because blood angels) that can take power swords+invuln saves at a discount
>army-wide stubborn
>"disadvantage" is they can't go to ground
no
also the voluntary fall back thing was only around in the basic codex marines for 5th edition
>>47593594
Okay, my group plays at 1k points and I wasn't sure if bringing one squad to place in cover to get some anti-armor would be acceptable.
>>47593597
>also the voluntary fall back thing was only around in the basic codex marines for 5th edition
and "Our Weapons are Useless!"
>>47593559
>marine stays the same but drops 3 points
>ork boy drops 1 point but loses 1ws, 1 attack, and 1s on all infnatry guns,
Don't compare it to current balance, compare it to itself. Do you have a problem with it for what it is, or only a problem with it relative to the current books? Because the latter doesn't matter, that's the point of a rebalance.
>>47593560
Does it actually seem too much? I can't tell if you're just memeing, or memeing AND trying to make a point.
>>47593597
Power Weapons are overcosted in general, but 10 Points for a Sword and a Storm Shield is too far.
>>47593555
Chaos Daemons get Soul Grinders but CSM don't.
>>47593129
Literally don't even worry about it unless it's one of the SW Stormravens.
>>47593164
You're a faggot. Anything smaller than a Warhound is reasonable to take at any points level (except for the Wraithknight, which would be balanced at 425 points).
>>47593227
Go ahead and bring a Knight, but it won't help you against flyers. It won't even help you in the ground battle. It's a single unit without Objective Secured that takes the place of four OS units.
>>47593619
Please, just stop. Your changes are nonsensical and hideously imbalanced, and what you have posted is meaningless anyways because we don't know what options and special rules things have
Anyone played with the new genestealer cult? Was it fun?
>>47593652
>Anything smaller than a Warhound is reasonable to take at any points level
Now this is a cancerous attitude if there ever was one.
>>47593573
Cover? Ap3 weapons.
ID? Means Painboys are worthless for Mek guns.
>>47593619
okay fine.
>3 point difference gives the marine +1bs, +2ws, +1t, +2s, +2i, +2sv, +2ld over a firewarrior.
They have the same weapons
>>47593555
But you can use other models to give the crew cover, right? And if there's an equal number of crew and artillery, majority toughness becomes T7, right?
>>47593525
Afraid not, the Heldrake lost skyfire in the new Death from the Skies flyer book. Pretty much your only option is to either bring havocs, renegade valkeries, or a lucky flying daemon prince.
>>47593681
I'd assume the question was more about "people trying to use models in a unit to give their own unit cover."
>>47593560
>>47593619
Didn't Orks use to be I3 and B3?
>>47593611
Oh, right. Krak grenades kind of stop that rule from mattering ever, though.
>>47593681
I get why its a GOOD thing, I just don't understand how people could think thats a legit ruling.
I mean that would be like saying "this front row of guardsman is providing cover to the back row" and "since my ethereal is attatched to my commander, he counts as t4 for instant death". It just doesn't make sense.
>>47593695
>, majority toughness becomes T7, right?
You need to reread the rules for artillery.
>>47593527
Now since you make boys into worse guardsmen, you'll of course give them orders, 5+ saves, vox casters, russes and full blown psyker support.
>>47593689
>3 point difference gives the marine +1bs, +2ws, +1t, +2s, +2i, +2sv, +2ld over a firewarrior.
>They have the same weapons
That's at least somewhat intentional.
Maybe I got carried away, but my thinking was Space Marines should be far more reliant on strong dudemen, whereas Tau should be more reliant on suits and tanks and so forth. Their rank-and-file infantry shouldn't be the core of their army in quite the same way as SM. Maybe I nontheless undercosted SM or undergunned Tau (or a bit of both).
>>47593695
artillery is always majority toughness of the guns, no matter the number of models>>47593715
>>47593320
So like,
>Warboss, PK, BS, Eavy amour
>Lvl2 weirdboy
>10 grots
>4x20 squads of slugga boyz with nob bs pk
>5 kannon mek guns, 5 ammo runts 8 extra gretchin
a decent start for 1000 points?
>>47593715
awkward timing aside: marines rarely ever can take advantage of Our Weapons Are Useless. That "downside" isnt much of a downside. But then again, Stubborn isn't much of a benifit (at least thats what they said when that was Dark Angels only extra special rule)
does anyone know where to find the most recent recaster catalogs? I know yoyhammer has them but for some, like ccon, they seem outdated. I know they don't change them too often but I'm looking for newer models.
>>47593736
>(or a bit of both)
This by a very large degree
>>47593727
>Now since you make boys into worse guardsmen,
They get +1 S, T, and I, a one point discount, and a melee weapon option.
>you'll of course give them orders, 5+ saves, vox casters,
Why wouldn't Orks get their own form of force multiplier?
>russes and full blown psyker support.
Why would Orks not get tanks and psykers?
>>47593652
>Anything smaller than a Warhound is reasonable to take at any points level (except for the Wraithknight, which would be balanced at 425 points).
>mfw 3 Riptide Wing at 750
>mfw 4-5 Riptides at 1000
With all the small and points efficient superheavies running around these days, the Warhound and even Eldar Revenant are barely worth the points. Why take them when you could take multiple superheavies instead?
>>47593765
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=warhammer+40k+recast
>>47593669
This is a WAACfag "anything that my army is poorly optimized to kill is cheese" attitude if I've ever seen one. For 375 points, you can kill any superheavy short of a Warhound or Thunderhawk on the first turn.
Or you could just ignore it and win the game anyway.
What's the best tank-hunter unit for Tau?
>>47593794
riptides aren't superheavies, to start, but a revenant, for the price of ~4 riptides, wins.
>>47593809
Fusion Suits, and Optomized Stealth Cadre
>>47593807
>This is a WAACfag "anything that my army is poorly optimized to kill is cheese"
Bringing a unit that can't be killed without list tailoring to the point that you can't kill anything else, is cheese. At low points values, where there's not much room for redundancy, that includes things like fucking superheavies.
Should Riptides be moved to Heavy Slot?
Is War-Convo acceptable now that they don't get allied transport from the start?
>>47593807
>I should be able to spam flyers and riptides at 750 points
>HE is the WAACfag
>>47593840
Would make zero difference.
>>47593797
everything is a dead dropbox link amigo
>>47593840
Riptides need a 20-30pt increase, a more expensive ion gun, or a 3+ save
>>47593807
> For 375 points you can kill any superheavy on turn 1
I play Space Marines. 300 points nets me 4 Rapier Carriers with Laser Destroyers, which are the strongest of all anti-armour options in the entire game, short of Strength D, which I don't have access to.
What the fuck army are you playing, Eldar? Pretty much only Eldar can kill a titan on turn 1 like that, with only 375 points to spend. This doesn't count, because eldar are fucking niggerfags that shouldn't be allowed to play this game with how fucking broken they are.
>>47593872
did you even try? I'm going to bet you didn't try. Unless google is giving me different results than you, its literally the second result
>>47593875
Possibly all of the above. And remove FnP, since it doesn't make sense on any of the battlesuit larger than XV8.
>>47593892
>Unless google is giving me different results than you, its literally the second result
Google weights results based on past history, especially if you've visited the specifc site multiple times before.
>>47593765
If you have contacts, you can just shoot your recaster an email asking for their Catalogue. The only cat on Yoyhammer that's updated any frequently is the Z catalogue, which is never more than two weeks old, and gets an additional update anytime GW releases something new.
If you don't have any contacts, just post your real name and email in this board, and you'll receive the new contacts.
>>47593807
>taufaggot spamming riptides and flyers at sub 1000 points
>calls the other guy a WAACfag
Your kind are fucking cancer to the entire hobby.
>>47593794
Or you can take 12 Riptides at 2200 points and they'd still be broken as fuck because JSJ means that you can never actually shoot them regardless of what you have in your army.
My point wasn't that every unit in the game is perfectly balanced. My point was that there is no magic point at which a given model becomes cheese. A single Knight in a 350 point game isn't broken, and a single Baneblade in a 550 point game isn't broken. Warhounds are broken at every level until you start getting into 8000+ point apocalypse games, because 4 S:D large blasts with table range on a model with Void Shields is pretty much guaranteed to earn its points on the first turn and not die on the second.
>>47593765
If you can manage to find the password, CCON catalogue is online and updated regularly.
Z's catalogue gets posted to yoyhammer fairly regularly.
The others are much harder to find, and usually require you to have their contact info, which for obvious reasons, aren't easily accessible on the internet, and people shouldn't help you find them
>>47593961
There's so much wrong in this post, you managed to disprove your own argument while typing it.
>>47593807
>"anything that my army is poorly optimized to kill is cheese"
Do you even know what WAAC means?
>>47593892
I'm a regular purchaser of recasts and have a few old catalogs. I've been out of the loop for a few months, Now all I find is old, dead posts and reviews. Second link for me is a knight review from r/yoy, bro. If you know where I could fidn the catalog, I'd appreciate it. I've done the internet trawl before and just hope I can save myself a few hours.
>>47593979
>Tfw used to think recast users were scum
>Until I needed a fuck ton of Centurions for a campaign
Sorry for hating, lads.
>>47593818
Never said Riptide was a superheavy. WKs, IKs, Stormsurges are.
>>47593999
nice trips
>>47593961
>My point was that there is no magic point at which a given model becomes cheese.
The entire game of Apocalypse literally proves you wrong. Elite armies prove you wrong. Marines not even being able to be battle forged at under 250 points proves you wrong.
>>47593995
Yeah, it means only playing against people that can't beat you. Tau and Eldar waacfags get to play more games than Tyranid waacfags.
>>47593961
>A single Knight in a 350 point game isn't broken
Yes it is you stupid fuck. Certain armies won't even be able to kill it at 350 points.
>>47593436
I think there might be miscommunication on what is meant by 'balancing' and 'bringing down/up'
If it's just point cost, then yes, bringing the point cost of the more powerful faction up would be a better thing.
If it's rules changes, getting rid of. the special rules for the powerful factions while leaving the lower faction with less cool rules or shitty damaging rules is bad.
Probably a bit of both would be best. Giving the top tier factions a point hyke (mostly on their most broken shit) while giving the lower tier factions some rules buffs.
>Everything gets reworked
>there can only be one unit with grav in a marine army
>Orks, CSM, BA, DEldar, and Nids aren't pitiful anymore
>only one Flyrant
>fluff out that the Riptide factory had an accident and Riptide production is slowed down
>Riptides can only be taken in 2000 point games
>Eldar get the fixing they need
>regiment/warband/Klan/Kabal/Craftworld, Dynasty, Order, Sept tactics
>formations and decurions are removed
How many problems are left?
>>47594045
WAACfags don't play Tyranids. "At all costs" doesn't mean "except for these things I don't want to do to win."
>>47594045
Women's Army Auxiliary Corps?
>>47594051
Certain armies can't kill it at 5000 points, either. Should I be offended that 2500 Conscripts can't take down a Titan?
>>47594040
(not that anon, but)
I think the idea is that certain models are cheesy no matter the point limit, but at higher point limits it becomes easier to deal with said cheesy model.
at 500 or 2500 points, the riptide doesnt change. its still just as survivable as always, but your ability to take large guns increases relative to the durability of the riptide.
>>47594057
>>47594072
That there is a lie. We all know that 99% of of all Nid players are chicks.
>>47594023
thanks I tried
>>47594067
>He doesn't know about flyrants
>>47594078
Don't be fucking intentionally obtuse.
Certain FACTIONS cannot kill a Knight at 350.
>>47593711
Yeah. In 2nd ed the statline for an ork was 3334137, with clan specific mobs giving them extra BS, S or access to different vehicles.
>>47594063
>we fix everything
>how many problems are left.
yeah sure, but how. you only gave some examples for some factions.
>>47594092
>implying Flyrants matter when Cruddance hungers for Nidfag tears
>>47594098
I should have said who did I miss that needs fixing?
>>47593875
and, you mean and. And no goddamn Riptide talon. Formations are supposed to require a commitment to get a reward. Just 'you can take more riptides if you want' is not a commitment.
On that matter Wraigh Knights should be 400 pts (the comparison to forge world nights at that cost is close ish).
Jetbikes down to 1 weapon upgrade per 3.
Warp Spiders jump 1d6 for their defensive jump.
>>47594095
Like who? Even Orks can manage it.
>>47593436
Ok. I see what your saying.
Less ridiculous stuff and loads of high AP weapons that shouldn't have that level of AP and/or strength etc.
I can agree with that.
However, They're are somethings that the only way to balance is a points cut, like the blatantly overcosted units in the bottom 3 dexes.
However also agree that just cutting points costs isn't a good solution, esspecially when cost isn't the problem
>>47594063
Maybe bring back rolling assault.
Whats wrong with formations?
>>47594124
I was actually just thinking about that this morning, and you hit a ton of items on my list
>Wraithknights now come with Suncannon base, and cost 345 points. Changing the suncannon/shield to two Heavy Wraithcannons or sword/shield costs 50 points.
>Only 1 in 3 Windrider Jetbikes may upgrade their weapons.
>Warp Spiders may only use the Flicker Jump special rule once per game turn.
>Wraithcannons count all results of 6 as a result of 5 on the Destroyer Table
>D-Scythes also have a -1 on the d3 of the “solid hit” result of the Destroyer Table
does this fix eldar?
>>47594063
>>there can only be one unit with grav in a marine army
I don't know if that's the real solution. The real answer is to rework grav.
>>47594146
nothing as a concept. A Lot of them are fine or weak, and they add variety to the game.
A small number of them are stupidly powerful, so people respond to that by saying they all should be removed, because they haven't been around long enough that saying to remove all of them to fix. the few bad ones doesn't sound as dumb as 'all MCs should be removed' or 'all psykic powers should be removed'
>>47594182
What's one unit with a grav-cannon going to do?
>>47594182
>rework grav
How do we do that?
less shots?
less range?
heavier versions become blast?
all of the above?
>>47594164
the d-scythes are still a problem. because they are still good against literally everything.
Bring back Old distort for everything but Wraithknight. Strenght D on a GC LoW is fine, if it's cost correctly.
>>47594206
18" range heavy 5 (cannon)/heavy 3 (gun)
>>47594135
>Like who? Even Orks can manage it.
How?
at 350 they can afford 18 tankbustas after the mandatory hq and troops.
>>47594206
>>47594203
The problem with Grav is it's better than everything against everything.
You need to make it a tool with a purpose, a niche to fill. I've heard someone suggest changing it from armor value to size class (bulky, very bulky, etc), and changing how it affects vehicles.
>>47594206
not putting it on relentless things. Remove it's power against Vehicles. No amp. Cost increase.
>>47594222
Heavy on the special weapon? seems unnecessary.
>>47594229
I think I remeber seeing somewhere (or thinking of it myself) that your save vs grav is your toughness value.
that way its good against big tough armoured things, not so good against infantry
>>47593555
i like how all the changes to the rules only serve to nerf orks and dark eldar
>>47594254
Thats because Orks and Dark Eldar are in such a bad place they rely on loopholes in the rules to be useful.
>>47593527
Orks with even weaker shooting and only one attack.
Go fuck yourself and never write a unit profile again.
>>47594248
No save vs grav, it wounds on your armour.
Would a "spam" tax on units help fix the game? That is to say, you have to pay more for taking more than one of the same unit (with possible exceptions on Troops).
>>47594222
>>47594229
>>47594240
>>47594248
Maybe have it specialize in bringing huge zog off suits?
>>47594274
I liked it when orks had toys that specifically relied on ignoring rules.
>>47594227
the tank bustas deal ~1 glance with guns, lose 4 in the assault, and deal ~5 hullpoints in the assault, while simultaneously getting killed by the stomps and explosion.
Orks win because they had more models elsewhere
>>47594206
Well, seeing as grav uses the enemies own mass against it, it should really be a gun that is really good at killing big tough units, but only ok at killing normal human sized stuff and really bad at killing anything smaller.
Firstly, rework the AP on it. It should really be almost reversed from normal. Stuff with 2+ 3+ and maybe 4+ saves don't get their armor saves, but everything else does, to simulate the heavier units being more affected than the less heavy ones.
Restrict access to grav cannons with amps, or make them blast weapons. Or both.
Range should be 18" for grav cannons and 16“ or there abouts for normal gravguns
>>47594135
Space Marines.
Cheapest HQ: Librarian at 65. Everyone else starts at 90, takes more points to let them even damage the knight.
Cheapest troop tax: Either 110 points for Scouts or 140 points for tacticals, and that's BEFORE buying melta.
That leaves you 145 points. That's not even enough for the majority of their units. Have fun with your one Vindicator or whatever and trying to kill a knight. Can't even buy 4 LC Devs with that, you're 5 points short. After buying two meltas on your troops you're at 125. After melta bombs, 115. That's not even enough points to have two full troop squads.
>>47594284
sorry, toughness as save for a potential fix-and-re-specialization all in one
>>47594290
Yes, 25% compounding.
And then remove the "X as troops".
>>47594290
Just do what 30k did and ban Unbound, while add in more restrictive Force Org Charts. Then add in a bunch of ways that you can personalize and modify the highly restrictive force org charts.
The final problem needed to fix spam is to add a Flat Tax on adding every unit to your list. Say that your FIRST wraithknight costs 500 points, while additional wraithknights in the same slot cost 375. You have to spend a 125 point premium on the ability to add a wraithknight.
>>47594227
Unbound Mek Gunz
>>47594344
>Unbound
Why not just mug you opponent outside the store and smash his army?
>>47594135
>Even Orks can manage it.
Through an unreasonalby incredible amount of luck, maybe, but 95% of the time it's still a guaranteed win for the Knight.
What makes a game fun is when both players have a reasonable chance of either winning or losing. Even "last stand" missions can be fun when the objectives reflect the fact that the defender is most likely going to be destroyed.
>>47594313
what about
>>47594248
>>47594344
If you have to say unbound you already lost, because 1) you had to go cheesy unbound to deal with the problem and 2) the original argument was that it wasn't cheesy or problematic to begin with.
"Terrorists aren't a problem, just nuke them."
>>47594378
That's actually a pretty good idea, if I'm understanding it right.
So toughness 1 units have a 1+ save, toughness 2 have a 2+ save and so on?
>>47594206
What if grav cannons were s3 and grav guns+pistols were s5 and the grav special rule is that you swap the guns strength and the targets toughness values around?
>>47594313
Here's a thought: why not just make it poisoned/flehsbane or something - thats a niche that isn't filled within the current marine armoury
or make it a support special weapon, fleshbane ap2, assault 1. units hit by grav count as difficult/dangerous terrain
>>47594425
Wait ignore this, >>47594248 is a way more elegant and simple version.
>>47594423
yeah - that way you wound terminators on 2, but they get a 4++. you wound riptides on 2, but they get a 6++
What point cost would you make it for a for the ability to replace your Sergeants with Chaplains?
How do we make Sniper Rifles good?
Precision shots on a 6 to "snipe" characters is cute, but not that good. When you need 3s/4s to hit, and always 4s to wound, you don't have enough weight of fire for 6s or unlucky saves to do much to your targets.
>Everyone in here is talking about killing superheavies
Why would you even bother? They can only kill a maximum of two units each turn. Drown them in bodies and capture all the objectives.
>>47594480
whats the difference in cost between a chaplain and 23 points?
>>47594487
Bring back pinning. Make it a 2+ to wound on weak targets.
>>47594487
bring back pinning, give it a real strength value or better poisoned value, and always precision shots
>>47594500
Because some armies only HAVE two units at 350 points.
>Drown them in bodies
Nobody actually plays horde armies. Green Tide was good even though Orks are shit, but nobody played it because of how unwieldy the army was. Same with Conscript hordes. Same with plague zombies. Same with CSM cultist spam. It's actually like the ONLY way to be good with CSM but people don't play it because it's horde.
And ironically enough, the one horde army people DO play, Tyranids, sucks ass.
>>47594487
S10 AP2 on 6s with LOS! only on 6s.
>>47594528
Not being innately precision shot is retarded. The whole point of snipers is to be precision shots. "But what if you shoot the sergeant 10 times"? Well nigger if you're a sergeant on the battlefield and the enemy wants you dead and he has a billion snipers, you're gonna fucking die.
>>47594507
Chaplain is 90 by default iirc, so 67.
67 points per squad to get a Chaplain? I might do it for a fun list.
>>47594528
pinning never left.
and they shall know no fear is not fearless btw.
>>47594480
Firstly I'd have them replace veteran sergeants.
Without any equipment upgrades (crozius and rosarius)=41pts
With=66pts
>>47594514
What's a weak target? Is it based on toughness?
>>47594487
Change them to:
>hits based on whether the target moved last turn, ignoring your BS
>didn't move, hit on 2+
>moved less than 3", hit on 3+
>moved 3+ inches, hit on 4+
>moved 8+ inches, hit on 5+
>all shots are precision and pinning
>wound on 3s instead of 4s
>6s to wound are AP2
>>47594480
50.
>>47594542
Green Tide is the polar opposite of what I'm talking about. I mean masses of minimum size squads. 5 Inquisitors and 15 squads of three acolytes with bolters, that sort of thing.
>>47594573
No, it's fearless without the drawbacks.
>>47594589
>What's a weak target? Is it based on toughness?
Anything T3 or lower I guess? Kind of dumb that a grot is as hardy as a T10 legendary daemon prince of nurgle when sniped at.
>>47594581
I could see this working as an alternative to Veteran Sergeants.
>>47594594
MSU isn't masses of bodies, it's MSU. You probably shouldn't be discussing strategy if you don't even know the abbreviation for MSU. People complain about superheavies because unlike you, they know at least something about playing the game, and have come to the very obvious realization that, hey, they're kind of strong. Which is probably why everyone has a knight.
I've not played 40k in around 12 years at least. I've just found my old Ork army: 35 slugga boyz, 23 shoota boyz, 10 nobs, 3 bikes, 3 choppas, wartrukk, and one of those little vehicles with tracks and a gun.
How do orks hold up these days? What would be the best next addition to my army if I want to play again?
>>47594573
what are you talking about?
snipers lost pinning, and I didn't even mention ATSKNF
>>47593847
If by "acceptable" you mean removed from a place it could possibly threaten marines, eldar or necrons for tournament standings on even a local level, then yes.
>>47594480
It should be a free upgrade for a specific chapter tactic, but the chaplain only has one wound. And the other half of their chapter tactics needs to be worthless since they get free 4++ and chaplain buffs and power maul on all their tacticals.
>>47594528
>>47594514
aw shit, you're right, they totally took out pinning.
Why would they do that?
>>47594638
Good thing my group is:
>KDK
>CSM
>Nids
>Orks
>Space Furries
>>47593663
It's a pretty fun army to play.
You got a really limited set of units, both in number available and war-gear selection, but they are all decently viable.
They can complement 'nids well too, giving access to assault grenade equipped infantry and knock off lascannons for popping vehicles.
>>47594589
Actually, let me simplify that.
>If target didn't move, add +2 to your BS
>If target moved, but less than its full distance, add +1 to BS
>wound on 3s
>pinning, precision shots, and rending
>>47594636
Everything else.
IA14 FUCKING WHEN?
>>47594608
so just give them a strength value
>>47594487
What if you could choose the target of all sniper shots at a -1 BS, and the target got the 5+ cover bonus even through his own troops (assuming he is, of course, BEHIND the other troops in his squad)? It would be kind of like a sniper trying to hit a president through his bodyguards.
Suggestion is more fluff than math, but I find it strange that your snipers only think to aim for the important guys in a squad 16% of the time. Also, it gives infiltrating or deep striking snipers a buff because they can catch the enemy unit from behind, so that the commander is not covered by the rest of his unit. So a sniper that flanks becomes 33% more effective. Just an idea.
>>47594206
What if, and this is just crazy talk, we just made it work how it does in 30k.
Where the unit being shot at gets a S check, and if it makes it it takes no wound. And it does not immobalize vehicles?
>>47594682
Do you mean everything I have is shit, or anything else would make a good addition?
ATSKNF whiners are faggots. Unless you play CSM you have no business whining about ATSKNF. It's the least problematic part about MEQ. Vanilla marines have so many other bullshit new units and rules and psychic powers, ATSKNF is not an issue at all and has been around for longer than you've probably been alive.
If you really want to nerf ATSKNF, you need to at least keep the clause of not being able to sweep the marines. Running them off the table and taking away auto-rallies is fine, but sweeping such overpriced power armor taxed units by using cheap disposable units, which loyalist MEQ do not have access to, by the way, is nonsense. This is why CSM players who ignore the existence of Cultists are morons.
>>47594683
6 years after IA 8
>>47594657
No idea. Barrage lost it as well
>>47594686
S10. Counts as S5 against vehicles.
>>47594697
Well the bikers are ok.
Rest is pretty much trash.
Pinning was the only reason to take sniper rifles. My scouts are running bolters from now on.
>>47594699
>sweeping such overpriced power armor taxed units
Space marine players.
>>47594697
Orks aren't doing too well right now and who knows what they'll look like in the future or what units will be good. For now I would recommend getting either nob bikers or shooter boys. Those are your two core units you need a lot of for the only two playable ork builds.
>>47594730
Basic ork boys are trash now? Times have changed ;_;
>>47594686
s4/ true rending poisoned 4+
There, wounds t2/3 easy, nicks MC's on 4+, breaks stuff 6+ and can shoot in gunslits of vehicles.
>>47594636
A Big Mek for a Kustom Force Field since there are plenty of slogging boys even after a wartrukk.
Something to crack open vehicles, I suppose.
>>47594741
MEQ is terrible right now. If you think power armor is amazing, you're a bad player, and that's not an opinion it's an objective fact. Even marine players that aren't forced to take tactical taxes choose scouts instead to save 3 PPM. GW literally had to give grav and free transports to make them playable, and even then it's only White Scars who have scout and hit and run who top.
Put your money where your mouth is and start allying in 14 point T4 W1 3+ models if MEQ is so great and worth their points. You faggots always claim you'd love to have power armor but you never take it when you can.
>>47594744
Well they are ok, but as is, it's better to take minimum size grots park them on cover/an objective cowering while you use all the remaining points on the other slots.
>>47594777
The salty marine player trips. Boohoo my troop choice is bad waaah.
>>47594741
>I should be able to sweep those 45 point terminators and 80 point centurions with my 6-10 point units with AP2 guns
Xenos players.
>>47594777
>MEQ is terrible right now.
Are you the guy who thought Marines deserved 2W sergeants since another book gets them?
>>47594833
Termies are 35 points.
>>47594827
So you admit they're bad? In response to a post addressed to someone who implied they were good? Get your shit together morons. Power armor and imperial wargear being overpriced affects more than just vanilla cheeselords. Casual players suffer from it, SoB players suffer from it, all marine armies suffer from it, even 4+ armor users suffer from their 4+ armor being overpriced.
>>47594706
Your make my cry, anon. You know damn well IA14 is out this year, but nobody knows when.
>>47594833
What six point unit has an AP2 gun?
What does having an AP2 gun have to do with sweeping advance?
Why should only all space marines be immune to sweeping and nobody else, when your problem is with expensive units getting swept?
>>47594846
>taking non-SS TEQ
Lel.
>>47594843
No. Maybe if you stepped outside of /tg/ you'd realize most people know that the basic marine statline isn't good anymore. And hasn't been good since like 3rd edition.
>>47594867
And none of consequence gives a fuck either.
>>47594833
>Sweep
>With guns.
Wat?
>>47594843
Not him but man, sergeants should have 2 wounds each across the board after the focus on challenges over the last couple of editions. Give people a reason to tart them up with fancy weapons.Nobz should obviously get 3 wounds in this change as well.
>>47594843
That was everyone from every army when the Eldar leaks happened. Everyone assumed sergeants nobs and other squad leaders were all going up to W2.Just like everyone assumed all dreadnoughts would go up to A4.
>>47594699
I always found it strange that they run away THEN rally instead of just letting the player decide if they run at all. After all, if the fluff says that they are actually "Repositioning to gain a tactical advantage" shouldn't the player be able to decide what they do? Because I'm pretty sure the tactical advantage is not in the open, away from the objective, right in front of a Banewolf with a hull heavy flamer. It almost feels like the rule is "And they shall know just a tiny bit of momentary fear".
But I can't think of a better alternative and I'm an IG main anyways so I don't really care.
>>47594894
>units with guns can't sweep things in assault
Learn to play faggot. Or maybe just get some reading comprehension and release it's just even more xenos privilege who already get AP2 everywhere but would also like to be able to sweep marines in combat as well as vaporizing them in shooting.
>>47594909
No, there was an anon a few days ago claiming SM sergeants deserved 2 wounds since one other book (admech? I can't remember) gets them.
>>47594843
Because they should, Sergeants are garbage.
>>47594928
>Or maybe just get some reading comprehension and release it's just even more xenos privilege who already get AP2 everywhere but would also like to be able to sweep marines in combat as well as vaporizing them in shooting.
My little space marine player can't possibly be this salty
>>47593217
I play exclusively 5th edition with 4th edition codexes. Best rules+ best lists.
>>47594956
Salty? Or just fed up with retards. You decide!
What buzzwords will the shitposter regurgitate next? Stay tuned!
>>47594928
>it's just even more xenos privilege
Are you from a different universe where C:SM isn't one of the strongest books in the game?
>>47594863
Stay salty. I should rephrase. They are slightly below average. This doesn't mean they deserve a buff.
>>47594998
Cause vanilla marines are the only ATSKNF marines that exist right?
Trying to change the rules put me in the wrong frame of mind to build lists. One is trying to adapt to the rules as written, the other is trying to adapt the rules to be more playable, they are mutually exclusive.
>>47595013
Get some reading comprehension you stupid nigger nobody is talking about buffing marines. Stay retarded. Better to be angry at idiots than to be an idiot.
>>47594626
So explain to me why 50+ models in 350 points isn't kind of a lot, and while you're at it, go ahead and explain to me why superheavies are so good when it's possible to get the shit stomped out of you and still have 6-10 times as many units on the table at the end of the game as the guy that bright the Knight.
You fags are just salty that the game has changed and your army isn't the bestest there ever was anymore.
>>47595013
yeah, cause why buff when you can nerf everything, right?
>keeps calling people salty
>keeps responding to continue calling them salty
Who's the real salt lick here?
>>47595075
(not that anon, but) I'd much rather see the relative power level of the game go down than up.
>>47595072
If the new changes weren't overpowered this issue wouldn't even exist, therefore your argument is already dead on arrival.
>explain irrelevant point X, Y, and Z
Explain to me why you don't even know what MSU means.
>>47595053
>>47595075
>>47595084
stay salty marine players. Keep whining about tacticals being 'meh,' no one really cares.
>>47594675
>They can complement 'nids well too, giving access to assault grenade equipped infantry and knock off lascannons for popping vehicles.
They are Allies of Convenience tho...
https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/845
>>47595131
>First Draft
Not final, anon.
>>47595116
What army do you play, if you don't mind my asking?
>>47595084
When someone is bitching about "xeno privilege" and how unfortunate space marines ate, there aren't many other good responses.
>>47595116
This is a discussion stemming from someone implying tacticals were good.
>>47595131
That's mostly irrelevant to what that anon is suggesting tactics wise. If they were saying "yeah dude put the genecult guys in a tyrannocyte" then sure that would be an issue.
I love the land raider redeemer but its such a fucking point sink.
plus anything that gets hit with 2 flamestorm cannons doesn't really need to be followed up by an assault
>>47595116
>implying the entire company isn't being kept afloat by marine players
>FW got turned into Riptide/marine factory instead of making cool models
>WHFB was slaughtered and its corpse used to make fantasy marines instead of reviving the franchise
I'd actually say a lot of people care, including all of GW management and all their shareholders.
I try to make sure every army completes a checklist:
MEQ
>TEQ
>Horde
>Light Armor
>Heavy Armor
>MC
>>47595145
I play marines. I'm just triggering you autists.
>>47595116
Judging by the amount of all these responses, and then on the other side, just pathetic old you, I'd say you're wrong. And also probably the saltiest person in here judging by you calling everyone salty and responding constantly. Are you mad marines are more important than your SoB?
>>47595335
please refer to this >>47595299 to see how salty you are.
>>47595299
>shitposts and trolls
>calls people autists
You were just pretending, we know.
>>47595353
>gets called out on calling people salty repeatedly
>keeps calling people salty
hurrr
>>47595358
>>47595375
you may know, but you're still salty
god dammit, shut up, you shitposting bastards.
