for starters are you the GM or the Player?

>Ranger is in danger of getting fucked by a huge Bear

Well anon, if you're going to run gay ERP games, the quality is going to suffer

>>47501110
Your players are dumb and need you to hand them inspiration when they succeed at a check rather than victories.

>>47501110
As a player I try not to roll play my action until after the roll.
That way I don't do a big persuasion thing for a failed roll, I act belligerent and terse after I see the 2 I rolled, or pull out the long persuasion if I see the 18

I don't understand the arcana one. Is he supposed to tell you how he strains his forehead and grabs his dick while he's trying to discern the magical nature of the statue?

>>47501110
>Scenario 1
Understandable, they've told you what they want to do.

>Scenario 2
If the player isn't very good at haggling, don't force them. Ask them to roleplay it because you need to know how they're acting to reduce costs. Actually ask them instead of being a beta shitter who just nods after they say "by rolling."

>Scenario 3
Once again, if they don't know how to handle an animal, I wouldn't force them. You've used a closed-ended question to give them ideas, so they can just go "yeah that" instead of thinking up an answer for themselves. Instead, ask "Yes, but HOW are you avoiding the bear?" and be insistent that you need to know what they're doing. Use open ended questions, or perhaps lead them a bit. Tell them about some nearby bushes or easily climbable trees or something to give them an idea about what's happening around them.

tl;dr It's your fault as much as it is theirs.

File: stickitinthepooper.gif (3 MB, 1280x720) Image search: [Google]

3 MB, 1280x720

>>47501110
>*Ranger is in danger of getting fucked by a huge Bear*
>"I bend over."
>alright how do you wanna go about it?
>"... by animal handling."

>>47501110
Arcana one is kind of iffy. Knowledge checks usually rely on the innate knowledge of the character, and that's pretty hard to describe.

>>47501110
Have the roll fail if they don't even say what they're doing. They don't have to go into full theatrics but a bare minimum of effort is mandatory.

>>47501568
Get out fucking WOW-generation apologist. If you're not going to roleplay in a =role= =playing= =game= then go play something like checkers.

>>47501636
I can understand the first one though. It relies on the characters knowledge that the player is not privy to. But the other two are just shit roleplaying.

>>47501110
>expecting a player to know more than the character in a particular subject when the character has spent their life preparing for such activities and the player has not
I'd guess that your players would rather say nothing specific than say something that directly harms their case. They know that they know too little to get it *right*, and would rather rely on the expertise of their character than describe them doing something actively retarded out of domain ignorance.

Kinda like the mirror-image of characters knowing things the players know but the character wouldn't ("oh I won't open the door it's probably trapped because we're in a dungeon" "oh I'll buddy up to the town cleric because I know Bill likes running games with lots of undead as enemies")

>>47501110
Option one entirely depends on the DM, magic isn't consistent with the real world, or often even in setting. It's fair.

Option 2, the player doesn't need to be a competent haggler, but should describe intent and attitude in the attempt.

Option 3, the WHOLE POINT of animal handling involves knowledge of how animals, both generally and specific, react to actions taken and ability to take said actions, the player has no reason to state the specific action the attempt in order to achieve an outcome, and even using survival as 'oh fuck, a bear, gtfo' is 100% understandable.

>>47501636
>If you're not going to roleplay in a =role= =playing= =game= then go play something like checkers.

>Ask them to roleplay it because you need to know how they're acting to reduce costs.

>You've used a closed-ended question to give them ideas, so they can just go "yeah that" instead of thinking up an answer for themselves. Instead, ask "Yes, but HOW are you avoiding the bear?" and be insistent that you need to know what they're doing. Use open ended questions, or perhaps lead them a bit. Tell them about some nearby bushes or easily climbable trees or something to give them an idea about what's happening around them.

It's like you read everything I wrote backwards or something. I'm advocating leading the player instead of spoon feeding them answers or just accepting the players being incapable at roleplay.

>>47501592
What is this from? Google delivered some H game that seems unrelated.

>>47501568
There's such a thing as "OP rewards stupid, he should have tried to engage players more" and then there's just playing with bad role players like in OP's case (aside from arcana, uea)
#OPDidNothingWrong

>>47501704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Wlh98dcSA

>>47501110
>WHAT'VE I DONE WRONG!?!
I'm no expert but it looks like you're playing D&D.

>>47501110
>Ok, so the bandits are coming after you, what do you do?
>I attack them with my bow
>...you attack them?
>Yea, with my bow. I rolled a 12, does that hit?
>...yea, it hits

What did I do wrong? Why aren't they acting out their combat in real life?

>>47501717
Huh. Thanks.

>>47501726
Y'think the noobie players will engage more if you replace it with GURPS, Burning wheel, Ironclaw, FATAL?

>>47501110
On the one hand, I hate shitty roleplayers.

On the other, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLEMb_RIZ3o

I wish I had a fraction of Mercer's talent for improv.

>>47501711
>DMs shouldn't ask players what they're doing
>DMs should just be so beta they can't stop players from rollplaying
>engaging players will make the game worse

You really got me, mate. Dunno how I'm gonna come back from that one.

>>47501670
>>47501744

Wow you two must be a fucking riot at games If you consider this normal. Do you usually play in a retirement home with your grandma's bridge club or something? Like, you do understand people don't generally roleplay everything like you would in a dungeon crawl with cookie cutter heroes who always give one sentence answers and roll dice instead of having a personality?
Like, you have to be mentally retarded or really new at roleplay not to be able to give some life to "how to back away from a bear" or knowing what to say to a person to reduce prices, shit, OP even gives examples.

>>47501776
You must be a fucking riot at games yourself.

When we do combat, we act that shit out. Weapons, armor, the whole nine yards.

Too many motherfuckers want to play big buff fighters when they can barely lug themselves up a set of stairs.

No fucking way, no how. If you want to be good at fighting in D&D, you best come ready to knock some god damn teeth out.

>>47501168
It's going to improve in comparison to hetero ERP games.

>>47501788
Oh, and you want to play a wizard?

Well then, I don't allow safe casting, it's concentration checks.

So when you're trying to cast that spell and the orc is hitting you, you best be able to keep reciting the cards I give you, otherwise the spell fails.

Fuck you for thinking you can just roll concentration. You have to ACT that shit out.

>>47501110
>Scenario One
To be honest, i fail to see what the Player should/could have done differently.
The only fault i could see is if they didn't let you describe the scene fully.

>Scenario Two
Your fault as much as theirs.
You could have specified that you want an angle for them to reduce the price.
They could have said something to begin with.
But see it from their perspective: Haggling with a (to them) unimportant merchant about some mundane shit can be boring. If they can solve this (to them) utterly unimportant trifle with a single roll instead of a drawn out scene, they obviously are going to choose the rolling so they can get to the fun part.

>Scenario Three
Okay, it's clear what the players think the game is: Broadly saying what you do, then rolling.
Here, the players is almost fully in the right.
"I back away" is enough from the players. The fact that its slowly and without any sudden movements is implied here. How good he goes about it can be determined by the roll. Plus, his character would know how to handle this far better then the player.

I think the problem here is that you as a GM failed to establish the importance of describing actions.
So, i have three ideas for solving that problem:
1) Talk to your Players. Be polite, tell them why you would prefer it if they described their actions a bit more in depth.
2) If you don't want to be this direct, explicitly give them boni on their rolls for good role-play beforehand. Say things like "Nice Idea to go about that. You have a +3 on this roll." "Interesting way to go about it. Have a +2 ."
3) Or, as a more direct method: Play a session without the players having the character sheets (outside of combat). They describe the actions and you only roll when you are satisfied with it.

>>47501776
Brown vs black bear, for one you act large and raise your arms, the other you play dead. Do you know which? Your woodlands ranger probably does. Guess wrong and die.

>>47501824
You can still attempt to act big against a Brown bear, the point is to convince it you're not prey, and that fighting you would not be worth it.

Also, playing dead, while technically something you can do, is sort of a last fucking resort. You don't just fall the fuck over when the bear sees you.

>>47501592
It's a kill la kill parody

>>47501768
>DM asks players what they're doing
>DM tries to get elaboration on what the player mean
>DM attempts to give examples of possible scenarios player had in mind
>player borderline refuses to rp by still going "yea I roll [skill]"
SHIT DM, WHAT A KEKhold CANT KEEP PLAYERS ENGAGED, WOULD NEVER ALLOW AT MY TABLE, FUCKING "THAT GUY", WHY DONT A PLAYER SAY THAT TO MY FACE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS

>>47501788
Dude I don't give a shit about your example (albeit I do agree with you), OP's reactions were all normal (unless you weren't trying to make a statement using satirical examples and was just talking to yourself or something)

>>47501838
Except brown bears are incredibly territorial when not acclimated to people, and are more apt to take you as a threat when you make a show of it.
You also don't try and run from either, but random pnp player from a city might not know a damned thing on the subject.

>>47501865
Sure, it's a balancing act. You want to back up slowly, showing you intend to leave, but still give it the idea that fighting you isn't worth it. You'll likely get a false charge, and when you don't run, but don't confront it, it will likely leave you alone.

Of course, this is all a moot point. the fucking goal should be to not run into the bear in the first place.

>>47501820
I think in two he could have maybe attempted to have dialogue based rp, but its possible op has done just that and just hasn't conveyed that in greentext well enough (and if during dialogue a player goes "I roll persuasion" that's objectively just shit rp)
I'd agree with you on the third one if only the DM didn't explicitly ask for elaboration

>>47501838
Well, honestly, the GM fucked up here: If a Brown Bear is about to attack you, you are capital F Fucked.
You usually play dead so they ignore you. They aren't stupid and would rather leave you alone then risk you defending yourself.
The only exceptions are if they are extremely hungry, in which case there is no way out or if its a momma bear with cubs.
In the latter case you ball up to show that you are no danger to her, in the former so that you sustain as little injuries as possible.
Acting aggressive really won't save you in either case (well, unless you are actually bigger and stronger than the bear)

>>47501110
>big statue in front of players
>oracle and magus are always casting detect magic since it lasts a few minutes and is free
>tell them they sense a green aura (conjuration magic) is coming from it
>they decide to check it out
>oracle decides to look at what parts of the statue are enchanted to see if she can't gain information what spell it does, or what its effects are
>magus aids another by looking at the statue from the side and calling out what he can see from there
>they identify it being a teleportation effect and where it goes, and use it nicely

>"While the knight's engaged, I've a clear shot at the mage! Rolling to hit with bow?"
>"Go for it!"

Sometimes it's great to have a descriptive group.