Post tanks that you think would work in 40K.
Also, Suggested stats.
>>47500288
Is this a baneblade or something just before it.
Heavy tank, Although theses were design as a medium.
So. Fuck if i know.
![Pzkpfw-III_Ausf-G_winter41[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/D547jcX.png "Pzkpfw-III_Ausf-G_winter41[1].png")
I'd love to have the plasticard skills to scratchbuild some Panzer III lookalikes for a Conqueror equivalent cavalry tank for my Chaos renegades.
>>47500305
I don't think you grasp the scale of a baneblade or the how densely they're built. No modern or historical tanks would be directly comparable to them.
>>47500404
Skull powered head lamps. Truly an age to live in.
>>47500288
French had some nice WW1 tanks.
It was never really build but the concept is truly 40k
>>47501023
Baneblade is something like three Maus in one, and that thing was never even built. So no, the point stands.
40k needs more casemate designs.
>>47500305
Given how GW can't into realworld stats, it could probably obliterate a baneblade.
Light tanks.
>>47500358
>http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?29192-StuG-Russ-Conversion-Guide!-(pic-heavy)-CLOSED
This might help
>>47501234
It is, but the idea was to be able to end up with a platoon or perhaps a company for large apoc floor games, that would look good but not break the bank. I couldn't get up to a standard I was happy with before giving up.
>>47501119
Sicarian Venataor
>>47501478
>side still says TALLARN
baka senpai
>>47506727
Looks genuinely 40k
For all of your lightweight, air-droppable dakka needs.
>>47506817
>that cutaway of the gunner
>>47501053
Not in numbers but it certainly was built, 2 anyway
>>47500404
Well, we know their heaviest armor is on par with an M60 Patton. :P And their designs are based of the Mark Friggin 5.
Yea, GW inadvertently made the shittiest tanks ever.
>>47506817
Where's the drive sprocket? aaaa!
>>47507360
It's the rearmost wheel. See the axial and transmission in the rear of the tank? Instead of using a wheel with cogs and teeth on the outside of the wheel and tracks, on the T-34 the cogs are in the center of the tracks.
>>47507093
Oh? What's the specs on plasteel?
>>47507555
It says right there at the bottom: Equivalent to 300mm of convention steel. Conventional. As in regular, carbon-and-iron steel. Not Plasteel. Just Steel. Sorry, but GW is about 4 decades behined modern armor technology. If they got so research done they'd know that they could claim far crazier numbers for their tank designs.
>>47507709
Plasteel and "conventional steel" have been used interchangeably in the fluff.
>>47507709
Is there literally anything that GW could do to make people stop quoting that old number?
>>47508520
Disband FW, disown anything they've ever done and start making HH themselves.
Fucking WG could have that turret.
>>47507709
What year is that book from again?
>>47508802
It is apparently from the first imperial armour book which was released in 2000.
>>47501023
>>47508886
Second. First one was of IG and Navy vehicles, second was SM and Inquisition. Published in 02.01.2004. Pic related is from Chapter Approved 2004, published in 09.30.2003.
![Katjuscha_1938_Moscow[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/M9GAtIb.jpg "Katjuscha_1938_Moscow[1].jpg")
8 single use Str 6 AP4 twin-linked small blasts on an AV10 all around body that can fire all of them at once. Range is 36 inches, fast vehicle, costs 80 pts or so. Can be taken in squads of up to 5. Basically the assumption is that the enemy will focus fire on them and kill most of them before they get into range, but the ones that do fire will make their points back.
>>47506677
Orks could totally pull this off.
>>47506884
What is that thing?
>>47509713
Pic name. It was a lightweight tank destroyer with 6 M40 105mm recoilless rifles. Designed to be air transportable. Was pretty shit, so the US Army dropped it, but the Marines were desperate for anti-armor vehicles and bought a bunch.
>>47509824
Thank you, kind anon!
(I was actually being an ass, since 'ontos' means 'thing' in greek.)
Air mobile glass cannon (erm - 6 cannons) - why not?
>>47509824
I think the Marines actually loved the damned thing in Vietnam or Korea or something
>>47509964
Turned out to be a really good fire support platform in Vietnam. Marines loved it for that.
>>47500305
Good luck getting the British to agree to that
>>47509064
>Heavy Bolter with a bore bigger than a 12.8cm cannon
40k stats for a current gen MBT would be something like this
>AV10
>Main gun: Range: 48" S:7 AP:3 Heavy 1
>MGs: Range: 24" S:3 AP:6 Heavy 3
Rhino - M113
Chimera - Char 1B
Exorcist - M50 Ontos
Leman Russ - T-55 or M60
Land Raider - Mk.IV
Baneblade - T-28
>>47510213
Also a Landraider with a Veteran Termi Squad could probably take on the whole might of the US alone and laugh about it.
What do you propose to do against a nukeproof impenetrable vehicle that never runs out of ammo for it fucking 4 Laser Cannons?
>>47510213
But with an AV13 void shield that works against projectile attacks.
>>47507740
Mind giving us an example?
>>47510263
Ignore it and capture objectives. That's how combat works, right?
>>47509824
They dropped it because the manufacturer didn't suck enough Pentagon dick. Everyone loved them.
>>47510263
Blind and immobilize. Add constant artillery barrage on the blind, immobile metal box when feasible. Impenetrable =\= undamageable.
>>47510306
Top one is from a Russ schematic from a white dwarf, bottom from IA vol. 1.
>>47510358
How fast? Maneuverable? And how the hell do they reload?? (And rof, while we're at it, thanks!)
>>47501023
>dat lil panzer 2
eeeh! :3 peep peep
![06996[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0NcLXHR.jpg "06996[1].jpg")
B1 ter. Disregarding sponsons or the M3 Lee, you won't get any real tank closer to a Russ.
Like a B1 bis, but more beautiful.
>>47507093
GW can't into number. At all.
>>47500404
A Landcruiser Ratte dwarfs a baneblade though.
>>47510213
AV10 is literally the "armor" of a Renault-FT ("Grot Tank"). It would probably be AV14 with AV11 sides and AV10 rear.
M1A2 Abrams
>Remote capability
>Urban kit
>Open terrain/speed kit
>Flexible platform easily adaptable to meet battlefield conditions
This is far and away the best MBT in the world right now. Fast, heavy armor, 105 mm main gun, .50 mg standard. Can lock on to 7 targets simultaneously -with the main gun- queing them all and firing on each in succession. This thing is made for 40k style battlefields.
![Char+2c+002[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uvvhDi4.jpg "Char+2c+002[1].jpg")
It even got machine guns on the sides.
>>47510262
Chimera is more of a BMP, and Exorcist more of a a SLUFAE or any of the M112 variants equipped with rockets; here's a sanctorum pattern :
http://www.combatreform.org/m113gavin70mmsmokerockets.jpg
and a Vindicator:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q14/rafaelgonzalez65/M-113%20Howitzer/m113assaulthowitzerfscv_003.jpg
>>47511130
You forgot its marvellous logistics friendly engine. Also the M1A2 has the Kraut 120mm.
>>47509420
>Let's deflect rounds onto the tracks! Surely nothing will go wrong
![Buratino[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NWjGbM9.jpg "Buratino[1].jpg")
Manticore
>>47511130
>M1A2
>105 mm
Shhhh.
>list of features common to every modern MBT on Earth
>Best MBT in the world.
>by far
Alright anon, the Abrams is a good tank, and I understand that you like your country, but it's no reason to make silly claims like that.
If you want some tank education
>>>/k/30090162
![tumblr_n70yeqhuRy1skaxu8o1_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2KlwIEb.jpg "tumblr_n70yeqhuRy1skaxu8o1_1280[1].jpg")
Wyvern
Shadowsword probobly.
![pluton_036[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/r6W8sQg.jpg "pluton_036[1].jpg")
Deathstrike
Sicaran Battle Tank
>>47510600
>How fast?
35ish mph. It was fairly quick in the 50s.
>Maneuverable?
Very much so.
>And how the hell do they reload?
One guy stands behind it and reloads. You're not supposed to operate it in the open, you need to find a defilade.
>And rof, while we're at it, thanks!
As fast as your reloader can work.
They carry 18 rounds, originally HEAT, but replaced in Vietnam with HEAP flechette rounds. The guns can be removed from the vehicle and deployed normally as well.
>>47509064
>Cupola on the baneblade is the size of the Pz 2's turret
GR8 scaling there m8
>>47511282
It did go wrong, they only ever made like 6 prototypes. Plus, four treads requires four times the engine output and four times the chances for damage.
If you liked that then you'll like this.
![2S9_Nona-S_727th_Btln_77th_Marine_Bde[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yqzaTfK.jpg "2S9_Nona-S_727th_Btln_77th_Marine_Bde[1].jpg")
Griffon
>>47511192
Yeah, being able to run on literally any fluid that will burn is pretty awesome.
>>47501183
reminds me of grot tanks
>>47511405
>RadiatesExternally.jpg
![Brummbara[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Trd53er.jpg "Brummbara[1].jpg")
Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbar"
>>47511413
It's called Diesel, afaik most military vehicles use it.
I think he referred to its atrocious maintenance requirements and gas guzzling abilities.
>>47511534
It's called JP8 actually, literal jetfuel, but it's just money and logistics and the US has both to spare.
As usual, when /tg/ and /k/ collide, beautiful things happen.
So, let's consider the following statements :
1) 40k is a rather over the top universe, where everything is dialed up to eleven and a mere lasgun is more powerful than a .50 round.
2) WW2 tanks would barely be able to scratch the paint of a modern MBT, and that's in 70 years of development.
From this we can conclude that with 38000 years of additional development (yeh, not 38k years straight obviously but bear with me there), modern MBTs wouldn't stand a chance against their future counterparts.
Most fortunately we can work around that since the Imperium comprises worlds at various stages of technological advancement. We can easily imagine one where tank tech has barely reached our own level.
And there you are, enjoy your 40k Leclerc or whichever one you prefer (but really, the Leclerc).
>>47511534
They typically run on JP8 jet fuel, but you can fill it with diesel or gasoline or kerosene or french fry oil or two stroke premix or whiskey or running alcohol or literally anything else that is a liquid and burns. JP8 is just the standard fuel because that's what the military stocks in bulk.
>>47511712
According to RT there's a <20% difference in combat power between an Armor regiment recruited from a world with RL tech and one recruited from a world with full Imperial tech.
>>47500288
AV12 front, AV 10 elsewhere else
Gun is S8 AP3, 90' range, heavy 1
Bow mounted heavy stubber, capoula mounted heavy stubber.
>>47511712
>1) 40k is a rather over the top universe, where everything is dialed up to eleven and a mere lasgun is more powerful than a .50 round.
That's wrong, though. A lasgun is the same as an stubgun, which is just an AK. It's also similar to a shotgun in range and power.
A .50 cal is a heavy stubber.
Leman Russ Punisher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M247_Sergeant_York
>Several companies responded to the DIVADs contest.
>General Electric entered a version with a small turret mounting their 30 mm GAU-8 Avenger cannon from the A-10 Thunderbolt II.
>>47511819
Dont they have an option to alter power consumption for more powerful shots but less ammo?
>>47511872
Some of them do. Some don't.
>>47511900
Huh. Fair enough.
Youd think an army on the Imperial Guards scale would have a little more standardisation.
>>47511712
You're forgetting that Imperium has the STC. Or, well, hard copies of STC designs. The whole thing was developed so that even a bunch of retards could make anything they needed.
That's why you have a lot of uniformity in vehicles across the galaxy, since they're all mostly based on similar blueprints, because innovation is nearly dead and that's what the codified piece of scripture says the tank should be made of.
Also, feudal and feral worlds are a thing, where people live in medieval or even more primitive conditions. But those worlds rarely produce their own tanks. Often it's forge worlds that produce the tanks or have factories on planets that produce their stuff by their design. Small arms and such are far more common to be produce on industrial worlds. For example Necromunda produces a lasgun pattern of their own.
>>47511859
Why was this never put into production? It's the perfect weapon for a multirole armored vehicle. It kills tanks, kills infantry, and presumably kills aircraft even if it didn't score as highly as the other loadouts for that role.
>>47511952
Probably not cost effective, especially considering the ammo consumption itd probably have to deal with
>>47511920
>Standardization
>From weapons being produced at tens of millions of different forgeworlds and billions of hiveworlds
It's comical that they're even all identifiable as lasguns.
>>47511770
>>47511819
But, Anon and Anon, surely you are aware that those kinds of details vary heavily depending on the source, author, etc.
Alas, I had to chose in the end, and went for what fit best with my opinion regarding the issue at hand.
>>47511920
/You/ try standardizing an army of a trillion men armed by a hundred thousand different worlds, many of which hate each other/drop out of contact with the rest of the galaxy for centuries at a time/don't actually know how their factories work.
>>47511966
Not to forget that what's good for hitting tanks might not be good for peppering aircraft. Flak and DU do two different things and having that thing loaded with multiple ammo types at the rate it consumes it...
>>47511996
>>47512028
Well yeah but surely they could all be produced to a standard pattern for fuck sake, even if all that does is ensure a few features as standard.
I mean, how hard would it be to disseminate a specific STC and telling every IG Regiment to use that specific one as a standard infantry arm? Is that not what fucking STCs were designed for?
>>47511306
Think its a little to small for that but maybe a Valdor tank hunter
>>47511966
I can't believe it's cheaper to make and store a 6" caliber high explosive shell compared to the 3-5 30mm kinetic penetrator rounds you could use instead.
>>47512045
That too. I also doubt the military would be fond of wasting the sort of ammo that yoke uses to take out infantry, nor would they want to give it extra guns considering its already prodigious ammo consumption
>>47511945
I do agree. What I mean is the galaxy is vast enough, and the fluff inconsistent enough, that you could bend it slightly and have your little world/system that's roughly on our own level. Like, I don't know, not yet reintegrated to the Imperium, for example. A world turned feral and forgotten in the aftermath of Horus' Heresy, for example, could very well be on par with us. Or do you think it's too far-fetched ?
>>47511920
They do have standards, but it's like NATO standards. All your guns need to use X as ammo and Y as magazines. Apart from that, you can use single shot rifles or hip fired miniguns for all the Imperium cares.
Vast majority of military lasguns use the same power cell type in terms of connection, so cells made on one side of the galaxy will fit guns made on the other. Same with bolter and autocannon munitions. In terms of command structure, regiments need to abide by the general tenants of the Guard with platoons, companies, etc. But the actual build is up to the regiment itself. Equipment has to meet a certain standard and include certain items.
This all is done so that each regiment meets at least a certain minimum of capability. The smallest unit the Imperium moves on the big board is a regiment. They don't bother with smaller things. 1 regiment in 1 transport ship. It's pushed around to the target zone and supplies are sent along with them. Then it's up to lower echelon commanders to deal with what ever comes out of the transport ship.
>>47506712
>Stalin inspired from this success ordered the design of an even greater tank
yeah in inspired by vodka!
I guess the original plan was crudely drawn on a beer matt
>>47512003
That's true but weapon lethality remains largely the same.
Overall tanks don't seem to be a priority for ANYONE in the 40k verse. The breakthrough weapons are titans and maneuver can be accomplished by everything from troops deployed in from space to horse cavalry.
>>47512113
Aren't Feral worlds usually in a hunter-gatherer stage of tech? We'd take a Feral world easy enough Id say, assuming they arent integrated into the Imperium as you say.
Come to think of it, don't most Feral Worlds just get used as recruiting grounds? You pluck out the best it produces, turn them into SMs and leave them to fight it out like the barbarians they are so the next batch will still be tough as fuck to start with.
>>47512108
Doesnt that tank hunter use DU ammo anyway? Besides, the Vulcan is mainly efficient due to its range and ability to get to a target location quick. If you wanted the same in a tank, youd need to outfit every tank unit with a few to ensure coverage. Having 1 out of every 5 tanks use that much ammo, expensive ammo too, trying to be a multirole vehicle is a bit impractical
>>47512045
>>47512108
>>47512109
Alternate DU and shrapnel. DU kills armor, flak kills everything else.
>>47512202
>Doesnt that tank hunter use DU ammo anyway?
The M60 Patton fires ~150mm HEAT.
>>47512244
Let me repeat what I just wrote: Flak and DU do two different things and having that thing loaded with multiple ammo types at the rate it consumes it...
You know, because it BRRRRRRRTs it all away in a heartbeat, you need a lot of it, both of them, or you're left with very limited supplies of both types of ammo. And I don't think the system is very good at switching from one feed to the next.
>>47512202
iirc, Feral Worlds are basically Mad-Max, but with stubbers/autoguns, and lasers too.
Of course, FFG stuff isn't canon, I don't think, sadly.
>>47512192
40K is all over the place, and its supposed to be over the top and loose, its what type of flavour of gruesome grimdark you want.
Mass WW1 infantry tactics? Faith in Emperor will carry the day to victory.
Mass armored warfare that almost looks like our own? Faith in Emperor will carry the day to victory.
Been reading the Baneblade novel, first few chapters are cool.
>>47512244
And how the fuck do you carry enough then? Do you split it half and half and get a weapon system that's sub-par in multiple categories?
Either way, coverage is an issue. That ain't a cheap gun to produce or operate, trying to put one in every tank unit as a multirole weapon system likely isn't cost effective.
>>47512267
I was referring to the Warthog actually. Im not too knowledgeable on the modern US military so I got the name wrong entirely. I would assume most tanks use HEAT since its probably the most cost effective option
Pic related btw. Now or in 38k years, the urge to drive very close and hit the enemy with a sword is always there.
M3A1 Half-Track looks perfect to made into a Orky vehicle.
>>47512527
Propa orky.
>>47512358
I get what you're saying. The GAU8 is a big gun that shoots a hell of a lot of big bullets. Firing one for just two seconds costs tens of thousands of dollars. But do you actually need to fire it for two seconds straight? The reason Warthog needs such a high fire rate is because it's firing a hull-mounted weapon at a fast moving vehicle while strafing at insanely (relative to ground vehicles) high speed. Even firing over a thousand rounds it's unlikely to get more than half a dozen hits on target.
If you were to put that same weapon on a tank, you would have far, far higher accuracy. You could kill a tank with less than a dozen shots. It's like comparing the Vulture (BS4 TL) to the Leman Russ Punisher (BS3). A base Punisher is garbage because it will only land 10 hits, compared to 18+ for the Vulture.
And here's another angle: if that same tank was equipped with the standard weapon for its chassis, it would be firing a shell literally more than 50 times larger and filled with a high explosive shaped charge. How many 30mm cannon rounds do you think you could buy for the price of just one of those? 5? 10? 100? Now compare the odds of popping a tank after firing two dozen 30mm DU bullets at it, compared to firing a single 150mm shell. Take accuracy and lucky placement into account.
>>47511952
It would only be able to kill tanks with rear shots, maybe side as sabot penetrators were developed. And that's only true for older tanks.
>>47512267
The M60 mounts a 105mm M68 (license produced version of the British L7 gun). Can fire basically anything that was developed for the L7 or the M68 itself, including HEAT, APDS, APFSDS, canister, HEP, HE, hell even ATGMs these days.
>>47512358
The ammo storage method depends on the platform. For aircraft, you only have 1 belt, so you simply mix the different ammo types into the belt. The A-10 for example uses a 5/1 API/HEI mix for the GAU-8 belt. Ground vehicles usually have separate ammo feeds or switch belts. There are exceptions though (like the ZSU-23-4)
Tanks use the ammo that suits the role (although there are ammo limitations depending on if the gun is smoothbore or rifled). These days, it's APFSDS for tanks, and either HEAT-MP or some variety of HE (be it HEP, HEF, HESH, etc) for infantry and structures.
>>47512325
What mass armored warfare have we had in the last 50 years?
>>47512714
the gau-8 actually doesn't do shit to tanks. it's not an antitank weapon at all
>>47512155
Special mention also goes to hotshot lasguns, but that's special issue stuff reserved Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, Kasrkin, or that world's equivalent.
>>47512796
It doesn't work very well on MBT's, but it'll fuck up anything and everything with less armor than one.
>>47512740
Apparently the 152mm gun was only used on the M60A2. I stand corrected.
>>47512796
There are Abrams that have been disabled by 25mm cannon. Most armor isn't MBTs anyway, and part of the problem is that the Warthog and the GAU-8 and it's ammunition are all 50 years old now. I wasn't saying we should retrofit all Abrams with a autocannons and call it a day, I was arguing that the autocannon-equipped Patton should have been given a chance to be tested against the T-62 and BMP-2.
This behemoth of tracked death, featuring the Gustav.
>>47512769
Two Arab-Israeli wars
Vietnam War, after the war technically ended and the US wasn't really involved but whatever.
Iran-Iraq war
Gulf war
>>47512049
We don't have standards across our one piddly planet - how the fuck you think a standard is gonna happen in a fuckhuge galaxy?
>>47513148
There wasn't any need for a dedicated seperate FSV at the time. The GAU-8 would be incapable of penetrating a T-62 from the front and likely the sides (although with modern ammo it's very possible to pen the side armor). And the BMP-2 could be penetrated pretty easily by most everything above .50 BMG anyways (and .50 BMG too from the sides and rear).
Fire support tanks are pretty cool though, like pic related and the BMPT. Would be pretty mean against the infantry hordes of 40k.
>>47513284
>We don't have standards across our one piddly planet
Because we have different nations with their own interests.
Look at something like NATO, where compatibility between member states is a big factor. Imperial worlds don't have to be identical, but they have to have enough common characteristics that large scale supply and command is possible. All they need to comply to is specific munition types and rough command structure. Everything else is up to the regiment. It also forces the regiment to comply to the parameters because there's no way of supplying if you decide to adopt a weapon the munitorum does not provide ammo for, and commissars as well as munitorum approved training are there to make sure the Imperial Guard regiments comply with minimum requirements.
>>47513314
It couldn't pen the turret from the front and it would be iffy but not unheard of from the sides (moar dakka would probably fix it, and it's got that in spades), but it would Swiss cheese the fuck out of everything else.
>>47512740
Have a computer operated loading system switching load feeds between ammo type, flip of a switch simple.
>>47511347
Nice, anon!
>One guy stands behind it and reloads. You're not supposed to operate it in the open, you need to find a defilade.
Thanks for clearing this up for me!
>>47513284
I like to think the galaxy has two standard stc lasgun ammo packs the nato vs soviet standard patterns.
Different forge world's have debates about the which is better, the national pattern being more reliable, while the Soviet has a tendency to not work at times as advertised. Sometimes being better other times worse.
>>47513314
>>47513386
You guys can't just compare spec sheets and expect that to tell the story. There's reports of Abrams in the Gulf War penning T-72s through-and-through, which is something like 3.5 times their rated armor penetrating ability.
The proper answer here is "who fucking knows? It's never really been tested." What we do know is that A-10s are fairly effective at disabling, though not destroying MBTs up to 90s-era designs, but there's no way to say if it would be as effective from ground level.
>>47513555
Mainly due to the fact that in the golden age of tech, when all of the imperium tech was invented, I doubt humanity as a while was united, there still would of been planet states; corporate holdings; alliances of planets. With Terra acting as a un/galaxy headquarters planet.
One of the headaches the imperium has is making sure they send troops to the correct theaters where resupply is available, or switching out equipment, or lastly a salvage and local resupply.
The imperium as a whole is just an idea, and tax regime. Within it there are states and empires growing shrinking in a dangerous galaxy.
The vast majority of people will never see beyond the planet they live on unless the join up for the 3 square meals and sense of adventure or promise of a new life on a colony planet after the term of service.
I like to think the tithing of a planet depends on its tech level / type / development index.
>>47513380
>Because we have different nations with their own interests.
And the Imperium not only has different nations, and different corporations, and different Noble Houses; but ALSO different planets, different planetary systems, different sub-sectors, different sectors, and different segmentae.
The Imperium certainly cannot maintain standards across all of that.
>>47513807
Imperial Guard is one organization. And they have a whole organization, the Departmento Munitorum, to make sure all Guard regiments adhere to the same weapon characteristics and doctrines.
Also, 99% of shit is either made or monitored by the Adeptus Mechanicus, so there's no way for large scale adoption of different, heretical designs to take root. Want your regiment to have tanks other than Leman Russes and guns other than lasguns? Well, you can go fuck yourself, all the options you got is Leman Russes and lasguns. Don't like it? Looks like you don't want to be a governor anymore.
>>47513380
Aside about how ungovernable is a galactic government, is it even possible to have an universal model with thousands of planets with different gravity, atmosphere, geography, fauna, and enemies? Even assuming that you would only fight on Earth-like planets, there are still thousands of variables.
>>47513929
>Imperial Guard is one organization. And they have a whole organization, the Departmento Munitorum, to make sure all Guard regiments adhere to the same weapon characteristics and doctrines.
Yeah, except every damned regiment is equipped and trained different, based on their homeworld - read the goddamned codex, ffs!
>>47513948
Imagine old times when Britain, for example, ruled quarter of the planet with wooden ships and muskets.
Imperium does not govern individual planets or systems. The appoint planetary governors who got the support of the Imperium to rule as they wish as long as certain requirements are met and they pay their tithes. Anything below that the Imperium does not give a fuck. So all they need to do is administer a million governors. And yes, it is a cluster fuck. You can have sectors living just fine, until some Ecclesiarch goes "no, this is wrong" and declares a crusade or a governor turns into a traitor or whatever else you may think of.
>>47514058
EXACTLY RIGHT! This is how one is s'posed to see 40k.
What's the typical size of an Imperial Guard Regiment?
>>47514374
Not sure if you could say there is a typical size, if you mean planetary regiments, I think it would depend entirely on the size of the planet, which is such a huge variable. Not to mention some worlds are more militarized than others (e.g. Krieg has a much larger percentage of its population as Guardsmen than, say, some random hive world).
>>47508573
Please no.
We don't need them fucking that up also.
>>47512049
Impossible.
No-one knows how many planets or regiments there are in the imperium.
Also they don't have any STCs, they just have scraps and parts of printouts that have managed to survive mostly unchanged for the last 17-or-so thousand years of utter chaos, as well as capital C Chaos.
Also, not all of these scraps are together, they're spread amongst Forge Worlds who guard them jealously, even from each other - while some components will be common knowledge through most of the imperium there will be various patterns that are unique to certain regiments.
Fortunately there was such a wealth of knowledge produced in earlier ages that overall standardisation can be maintained, at least in areas. The Great Crusade helped, delivering a lot of information to a lot of worlds, but the Mechanicum was even more fractious and secretive. And then the Heresy happened, with half of Mars being one of the first groups to declare for the warmaster, and the Martian Civil War/Dark Mechanicum wreaking havoc on the biggest STC-part repository in the galaxy
>>47514427
Rule of thumb says typical regiment is roughly approximate to a modern brigade - 3 or 4 battalions, 1000-5000 men, capable of independent combat action (i.e. has its own support - tanks, artillery, air).
>>47500404
Soviet land battleships like the t28 are quite similar in terms of scale and crew compliment. Multiple turret design as well.
>>47514034
Anon, I've been playing Guard since 3e.
Yes, every planet trains its own PDF the way it likes. But if you knew anything about anything, you'd notice how autoguns are regarded as second tier weapons for the likes of PDF (Siege of Vraks 2, pg. 148). Yet you don't often see Guard regiments running around with autoguns or other shitty guns like that. It's almost like there was some standard upon which regiments were held! As if some organization, responsible for raising Guard regiments from planets required said regiments to adhere to a certain standard (4e Codex: IG, pg. 9). If they don't, the governor will find himself replaced with a more capable governor (5e Codex: IG, pg. 8).
And regiments might fight and have different names and duties for officers and even select their officers in different ways, but there still has to be some adherence to the organizational doctrines presented by the Guard, such as fitting into the regimental types (armoured, infantry, artillery), etc. (5e Codex: IG, pg. 9), command structure (5e Codex: IG, pg. 30) and officers need to be trained in the Tactica Imperialis (5e Codex: IG, pg. 8).
>>47514374
Depends on the type. Infantry regiments can be anything from a few thousand to over a hundred thousand. Largest I remember is a Valhallan one numbering at 120,000. Armoured regiment are naturally less. 5e Codex mentions an armoured regiment of 1500 crew members strong. So divide that with like 4 per tank and you get little less than 400 tanks.
>>47514475
>No-one knows how many planets
Yes we do. A million. That's the number that's been throw around since forever and for example 5e SM codex flat out tells you there's a million space marines, one for each of the Imperial worlds.
>>47514584
>Soviet land battleships like the t28
>Soviet
>>47514617
You are describing the role of the Commissar, sir.
And you are forgetting the actual size of the Imperium - IDEALLY, the Munitorum supplies all regiments; but how often do things work out in the grimdark?? Remember that the TT handwaves many many things; the TT creates a 'typical' IG trooper, with 'typical' IG equipment, for ease of use in a TT game - but the 'reality' of 40k is much more detailed. The 'reality' of 40k is such that regiments find themselves fighting with all sorts of weird equipment while they are waiting for the Munitorum to ship them their stuff.
>>47514682
No divisions, corps, armies, or army groups then?
>>47514740
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-28
>>47514762
Just read the fucking codexes, man. I already supplied you with enough sources.
Yes, the tabletop is the middle ground, but whether you're a Vossie, a Cadian or a Chan, you use a lasgun, have platoons, officers, etc. Even though Catachans elect their officers, Cadians, etc. (4e Codex: Catachans, pg. 3).
All build on the principle that when a commander militant has a dozen different regiments under his command, he can have some assurance he's talking to the right people in command and who have some idea how to operate together, despite the fact that they've never even heard of each other.
>>47511405
Despite being a tread head for many years I have never seen this amazing and awful creation. Truly in awe.
>>47510055
This is true but to be fair realistic rifle size barrels are really hard to cast, something that narrow won't fill properly in the mold.
>>47514740
? It was designed, introduced, and served entirely under the Soviet banner. What's the issue?
>>47514617
Hey this is sort of off topic but I used to play guard in 3rd edition and haven't played since. Can you compare the competitiveness of the imperial guard today with that in 3rd edition? I always found myself losing, but mostly to eldar.
>>47511285
>>47509384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_ZjNCXB5r0
I like the fact that "Katyusha" is a diminutive form of the Russian equivalent of "Catherine".
Which means they looked at a barrage of howling indiscriminate explosive death and said: "Yeah, seems like a Cathy".
>>47514810
That guy's wrong - this guy >>47514526
is right.
>>47514810
No, the standard unit of the Imperial guard is a regiment. One regiment per one transport. No mixing or matching. Keeps it logistically simple for the administratum.
Army groups are assembles when several regiments are sent together to the same locations. Macharius, for example, commanded several army groups during his crusade.
>>47514810
IG regiments are usually aligned under an overarching battlegroup commanded by a general if there are multiple regiments fighting together.
>>47514898
>All build on the principle that when a commander militant has a dozen different regiments under his command, he can have some assurance he's talking to the right people in command and who have some idea how to operate together, despite the fact that they've never even heard of each other.
Again, you are describing the role of Commissar, friend anon.
>>47514932
kek
>>47514859
Well that's confusing. Who names this shit, anyway?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T28_Super_Heavy_Tank
>>47514908
>Can you compare the competitiveness of the imperial guard today with that in 3rd edition? I always found myself losing, but mostly to eldar.
Yes. Eldar are strong, as always. Their bikes can have scatter lasers for 10pts. per model, distort weapons are strength D (like volcano cannons, etc.) and wraithguard can have distort flamers, which are slightly less powerful, but only slightly.
>>47514971
Fine, be a retard.
>>47515006
One is US, the other Soviet. Also, there's a dash in the Soviet one.
Now tell me who decided that every other American weapon system had to be an M1 or an M3. You got an M1 combat car, M1 MBT, M1 carbine, M1 Thompson, M1 Garand, M3 grease gun, M3 light tank, M3 half-track, M3 medium tank...
>>47515057
Read up on commissars, then get back to me. And don't get so butthurt when you're wrong.
I already can call this threat.
>hey guize I can only process shit with my autist 40k lens but wanna talk about tanks
>ok, here are some tanks. This one seems like X IRL
>nuh uh, everything 40k is leagues above our technology and design
>except they're badly designed
>NUH UH THEY'RE PERFECT IF YOU KNOW X AND Y
>well that doesn't make sense
>REEEE I HAYTE MODERN FAGS
Enjoy.
>>47507555
>>47507740
Plasteel is a real thing. And its really underwealming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurgel
>>47510263
Landraiders and terminators lose to fucking orcs you dumb faggot. I know you don't bother to read about modern shit but there isn't shit either of those things have we can't crack.
500lb laser guided bombs with dead eye accuracy trumps terminators, and since HEAT weapons pretty literally use a plasma jet to destroy targets its a pretty safe bet that dudes who in setting are described as being vulnerable to weapons like plasma weapons are gonna die from it.
>>47511285
Abrams has the best thrust to weight ratio because of a massive jet turbine.
Abrams is the best tank in the world objectively, I might like the Leopard 2 more but factually speaking the Abrams has more power armor and weight.
And no, Challenger 2 isn't heavier armored. In fact its likely much thinner because an RPG-23 once punched through its front armor.
>>47515090
No, you read up on IG fluff. If you're going to sit there and tell lies about how there's no standard in the Imperial Guard regarding regimental organization and that officers are not trained in the wider tenets of the Guard and every trooper is not issued with an Uplifting Primer containing everything they need to know, then you can just fuck right off and go bother someone else.
They don't just throw a commissar in there and have the whole thing form into a standard Guard regiment.
>>47515090
The office of the commissariat's purpose is to encourage the regiments of the guard, maintain order in the regiments as an independent authority, to advise the Staff of the guard and to provide a back-up command of (more) known quantity for the eventuality of the initial command of a regiment or task force being unsuitable or incapacitated
It is the job of the Departmento Munitorum (or rather a few of it's Offices) to ensure that all regiments raised can function in the Guard and are equipped to a broad standard - in theory, any given regiment should be roughly equivalent in combat power to any other regiment, though specialisation makes that very hard to quantify, and the various Staff commands do try and make sure suitable regiments get where they need to be - note that "roughly" in this case leads to interesting rounding - the 18th Valhallan Regiment, the"Tundra Wolves", founding strength, over 120,000 guardsmen is just as much a Regiment as a Heavy Tank Regiment of maybe a couple of dozen vehicles
>>47511712
>a mere lasgun is more powerful than a .50 round
Autoguns/stubbguns are of similar capability, and they are by definition similar to modern weapons.
You're thinking of hotshot lasguns, which aren't even fucking impressive because we chose not to make .50BMG a standard round because bigger isn't always better. If we felt like it we'd make automatic grenade launchers and anti Material rifles standard issue but its less effective.
>WW2 tanks would barely be able to scratch the paint of a modern MBT, and that's in 70 years of development.
Of actual innovation, and even then I'd like to see how a Scorpion Light Tank takes on a Jagdtiger.
Meanwhile, 40k is literally defined as being backwards enough that flintlocks show up on their fringe worlds. So its more like comparing the height of the Roman Army to the fighting abilities of 1800s undiscovered tribes.
>lol 38k of development
if fucking infuriating because it shows how fucking little people actually read into the themes of 40k. The Leman Russ is meant to be a piece of shit, its how the Imperial Guard look unique instead of boring fucking space federation number eight hundred. Therefore, something designed to be backwards and anachronistic isn't the best match up for real cutting edge engineering.
>>47506748
The infantry would shoot the attacker, theoretically before the panzerfaust/panzershrek could be fired. The idea was to prevent an ambush by having more eyes watching, not to jump in front of the rocket while screaming "ZA STALINA!"
Though it does sound pretty 40k.
>>47514374
It varies. Some Regiments can be as small as a few hundred guys, while some can be a million men strong. The Death Korps, for example, raises 'tens' of Regiments every YEAR, and they're massive enough that in Vraks, 31 Regiments were used against Chaos forces. 14 million men died, and that wasn't even the destruction of most of the Regiments. Maybe three or four, and moderate losses among the others.
>>47515148
The thing about 40k is that the designs are supposed to be aesthetic, but you CAN apply tactical reasoning behind them. The retarded height of the Russ? You can wave that off with needing to drive through massive piles of dead Orkz. The shitty turret size? Hives are retardedly cramped.
You need to be able to wiggle shit around if you want to try and apply logic to 40k, since most of it is made by a company with little idea of actual weaponry and military actions.
>>47515339
>an RPG-23
RPG 29.
When the tank was going over a ramp and the underbelly was exposed. The tank then proceeded to return to base under its own power and was quickly repaired and back on duty the following day. There were slight injuries, including part of a foot.
At least 2 Abrams have been reported damaged, with operator kills, by the same weapon in 2007 (see the cite links at the bottom of the RPG 29 page on wiki)
>>47515339
That was a hit to the belly because of angle of approach, and has been rectified by dorchester addons.
>>47515745
My bad, RPG-23 and 29 are pretty different.
However, the issue is that it was a penetration from the front. According to /k/ those other Abrams attacks were from the side or rear. This is not surprising because I can pull up a video of the glorious Houthis killing a Saudi Abrams Tank by hitting the rear/side with an ATGM. People say that its because we sold them shittier tanks, but either case abrams absolutely vulnerable to hits to the side/rear with modern weapons.
The problem here is that AFAIK Abrams never had a problem with front armor, which is why TUSK was mostly about protecting the top and sides.
>>47515833
>dorchester addons
Right, more or less UK TUSK set. Point is that Challenger has suffered from attacks that abrams have taken, which is fine but the point is that Abrams probably has more armor or better placement.
Even armor aside, thrust to weight ratio with the weight of the tank should make it clear how much more powerful the engine is compared to most other tanks on the market. I can perhaps accept that an objectively better FC computer like in the Lacleric might push it over in a very narrow situation; but as long as you can fuel the monster, abrams is well rounded yet exemplary enough to be considered the best tank produced and standardized like it has.
>>47516142
>from attacks that abrams have taken
No, hitting a tank's underside is a pretty rare and special occurrence for an RPG (both tanks have been knocked out to various degrees by IEDs) - it's not front armour, it's bottom armour, far below the glacis.
/k/ may mock the Challenger for many things, but the armour is one area they don't.
Well, some do, but that's /k/ being /k/
The Challenger's engine is, notably, its biggest weakness - even as a massive fan, it's pretty shit, and the Abrams has more power than god thanks to being a turbine. No-one will deny that.
>>47511859
Muh dick
>>47515539
> Leman Russ is a piece of shit
> Not realizing that the Leman Russ is NOT ONLY A PIECE OF SHIT
> But that it's a piece of shit good enough to go toe to toe with Space Elf tanks with fucking laser cannons that can punch a hole in a titan
> Or go up and actually threaten said titans when massed up
> Or fight xenos that use railguns on freakin' hover tanks.
> Or fight 10,000 year old demigods in power armour.
>>47516692
Well of course it's a piece of shit with plot armor, it's named after the Primarch of the Legion that shares those traits.
>>47516748
> Implying the Leman Russ needs plot armour
What, is S8 Ap3 Ordnance not good enough for you? All the Leman Russ has is a thick as shit front, and a paper thin ass, and as big of a gun as the tank's frame can handle.
Oh, and a recaf making facility, obviously because this is a british tank. The crew could impale their asses on a steel bar that serves as the seat for all it matters, literally the only comfort they could be given is tea so they don't need to leave formation to wake up in the morning.
>>47515546
>Soviet Russia
>Using infantry to watch for ambushes >Instead of blocking the rockets
>Implying that these conscripts are there for anything else besides "ZA STALINA"
Oh anon, you so funny
>>47517681
>military forces, including the United States Army in the Vietnam War, the Soviet Army in the War in Afghanistan, and the Russian Ground Forces in the First Chechen War, have chosen to ride atop their carriers while on patrol or routine movement, rather than inside them.
>In contrast to the offensive Soviet tank desant tactics of World War II, these were soldiers who wanted to be able to move from their vehicles quickly in case of ambush (which often turned their transports into death traps). Fearing land mines and rocket-propelled grenades widely used by guerrillas, these soldiers refused to stay inside the personnel carriers—contravening normal standing orders for several reasons:
>The infantrymen on the outside represented more eyes and rifles at the ready to locate and fire upon a small force or single ambusher.
>Explosive concussion inside the personnel compartment, caused by a rocket-propelled grenade or land mine hitting the armour, was said to be more dangerous than enemy fire on the personnel mounted outside. Many of these soldiers wore body armor, which reduced their fear of small-arms fire. Spall liners have only recently become common.
>Wounded soldiers trapped inside were very unlikely to be extracted safely until after the battle, especially if the vehicle was on fire.
>>47517995Shh, quiet anon, I'm trying to imply implications here
>>47507093
>>47507709
I wish retards would stop equating real world RHAe with Imperial RHAe. And read the whole fucking picture, not just the underlined bits.
>>47511089
Nah. Modern tanks would warrant it. WWII tanks, even the Tiger, would barely warrant AV 12.
>>47511819
We have Kalashes that can penetrate several inches of concrete, tear off limbs or punch through medium armor?
How would be the rules for an Active Protection System? Invulnerable, integrated into the AV calculus, or something else?
>>47511282
That's a good thing. Hitting the tracks means missing the crew, who can then scuttle the tank, or retaliate if they are ballsy or suicidal. In that period of history, it was understood that heavy tanks were too inefficient and MBT type tanks with good guns and speed were a priority, with armor intended only to protect from lighter guns since anti-armor technology at the time made all but the most ludicrous amounts of armor redundant waste of horsepower. This tank was only meant to prototype extra radiation shielding anyway.
>>47511282
They probably were more worried about the tank flipping over from a nuclear blast than the possibility of a shot glancing off into one of the tracks.
>>47520226
>they make nuclear anti-track shells
what now, slavs?
>>47520243
We artillery now.
>>47511405
That thing looks god awful. Why is the reactor in the turret? Who looked at this and thought it was a good design?
>>47520375
Do you see any crew space in the base? Because it looks like a mere carriage and all the crew, guns, engine, etc. are in the turret.
>>47520243
Better loose a track than being upside down.
>>47516329
Doesn't the Abrams' turbine engine burn fuel like a motherfucker to the point where you can see the gauge noticeably drop just by turning it on or something silly, though? And it glows like the sun on infra-red thanks to running incredibly hot?
>>47520693
38 liters just to start. The same number is used hourly when idling too.
>>47511708
>>47511763
My bad, translation mistake.
It's called Diesel ENGINE.
(I know the Abrams uses a GT engine and not a Diesel, but the point is, almost any tank can run on butter or coal powder)
>>47512656
>the driver being all like "I'm so tired of their shit"
>>47512202
>Aren't Feral worlds usually in a hunter-gatherer stage of tech?
A feral world during Horus Heresy (M31) would have 10.000 years of technological evolution behind him in 40k.
>>47511952
I'm gonna say it's because the US prefers air superiority to AA units. Which is the resaon why they had pretty shitty systems for a while, all the nice prototypes and imports being blocked.
>>47501224
>Light tank of the GLA!
>>47521045
>>47511405
>>47509420
I want a modern WW3 nuclear war RTS based off of crazy 50s and 60s designs, with actually devastating tactical nukes and blast and radiation counter measures having actual ingame mechanic effects.
I should just go play RA2:YR or figure out how to mod Generals.
Except, now I also want an RTS about the Iran-Iraq war, with trenches, gas, cruise missiles, human wave attacks, massed tanks and eletrified swamps.
>>47514932
Catherine with a C or Katherine with a K?
>>47501119
I use the ISU-122 as a vanquisher stand in
>>47511130
Weird way to spell Leo2.
>>47512769
Indian, Pakistani wars
ITT: People who know nothing about actual tanks.
For Christ's sake how hard can it be check your own goddamn facts? Surely you can manage!?
>>47522186
Same dude here. Pardon my attitude, it's simply so infuriating sometimes and I've had to deal with normie-tier ignorance today as well. I didn't mean to come off as so bellicose.
>>47508784
I never realized how much I wanted panzer slippers until now
>>47508784
GODDAMNIT
Now I have to go find a girlfriend who knits
Or crochet or whatever, I don't know, tank
>>47506748
The only thing that works.
>>47521045
Diesel engines can't run on gasoline, alcohol, or plenty of other stuff. Whatever you use has to combust at just the right amount of pressure. If it combusts to early or too late, the expanding gasses try to turn the engine backwards and you get "knocking," which will eat your engine.
The reason turbine engines can use basically anything as fuel is because they feature constant combustion and no reciprocating action. There's just a constant stream of flame coming from the fuel injector. As long as your fuel is compatible with the fuel system (obviously a block of coal won't fit through the fuel lines) and is flammable, you have nothing to worry about except maybe carbon/impurity deposits.
>>47522772
It's also a grand way to get everyone riding on the tank killed for no gain whatsoever.
>>47517995
So why do APCs even exist? Why not a cab with MBT levels of armor and a flatbed, instead of having shit armor all around and expecting it to actually be useful?
>>47522929
APC exist to protect infantry from artillery.
>>47513491
They also regularly left the back hatches open when possible, because it was cramped and hot as fuck inside.
>>47518628
Stubguns are explicitly described as firearms among the lines of an AK or Garand. They are S3 AP- Rapid Fire. Lasguns are also S3 AP- Rapid Fire.
>>47522937
Are artillery shells less powerful than RPGs and IEDs?
>>47522868
We have more where they came from.
>>47522929
Carting the infantry to where they need to be quickly without getting torn to ribbons by small arms or shrapnel. From what I gather, if they're being shot by anti-tank weapons something has gone very wrong. Also 'MBT levels of armour' is incredibly heavy.
>>47522987
A direct hit will annihilate one, but that's generally the same with anything and the chances of actually being hit are very slim. The metal fragments flying everywhere, however, will make a mess of anything without armour, which is where the APC comes in.
>>47522929
Too expensive
>>47522987
It's to protect infantry from the shrapnel, flying debris, and pressure wave of an artillery shell exploding nearby. That's how an artillery shell usually fucks you up.
>>47522987
APC are often called "Battle Taxis" and might not be involved in battle at all. A lot of them are also amphibious. If you want an actual combat vehicle, you use an IFV. Note that heavier IFV are becoming heavier and more tank-like.
>>47523022
>>47523024
I'm just talking about taking all the armor from the entire APC and sticking it all in the cab. You don't need an armored box in the back if it's just going to be empty.
>>47523022
There's been an increasing number of heavy APCs in recent years due to the need for more armor to counter more powerful threats. Like pic related, which is a conversion of the Merkava chassis into a heavy APC.
APCs in general have been getting armor upgrades. Protection from AT weapons is one the more common trends.
>>47522929
The engine required to move something with that much armor is extremely expensive. And the armor itself has gotten much more complex, making it fairly expensive as well.
MBTs have the heavy armor they do because they're intended to fight other tanks, which have big guns, thus the need for heavy armor. APCs are intended to protect infantry from shrapnel and small arms, not tanks. You have your own tanks for that.
>>47523089
Because sometimes it's not going to be. People ride on top when they can, but sometimes they can't. Mortars are very, very common, and a flat bed isn't going to protect you from a shell landing nearby. Having at least a bit of an armored box to duck into if you fall under attack from something it can help against is a good thing, even if troops don't use it all the time.
>>47506727
>I didn't know SoB were given tanks when did this happen.
I am actually surprised there aren't tanks in wh40k that look more like this.
>>47523098
I feel it should be pointed out that even with the trend, the Narmer is a bit of an outlier - it's very heavy, very expensive and is designed pretty much solely for the IDF and their current role - it's certainly not one-size fits all.
That said, it's quite possibly the most well protected armoured fighting vehicle in the world, and by all accounts it's very good at its job.
Speaking of cool israeli things, this combat engineering APC reminds me a lot of the malcador defender
>>47523225
Because at the end of the day, no matter how absurdly impractical 40k tank designs are, most of them are based upon real-world vehicles to greater or lesser extents.
>>47523225
>yfw the towed mini chapel-ized field gun in the back
>>47522929
Heavy IFV are just appearing in the scene. They are very, very new and few-to-none countries have them in full production.
>>47515090
Commissars are morale officers. Nothing more really. They ensure the regiment and their officers remain loyal to the Imperium and do their job. They have nothing to do with the leadership or command of the regiment outside of extreme circumstances (like Gaunt). When a Lord General gives orders he gives them to regimental commanders (Colonel or some other local name that probably exists) not to the commissars.
>>47523255
There are a fair number of MBT-to-APC conversions out there. And the Namer is not at all designed for the IDF specifically. It was created to deal with the substantial threat posed by modern AT weaponry, including big IEDs, after the M113 proved excessively vulnerable to them. This is true of many modern APCs, which have consistently been uparmored to deal with a deadlier battlefield.
>>47518871
Invul save would make the most sense, it has a chance of defeating pretty much any munitions. You could always just make it a special rule.
APS: Against any shots fired at the vehicle of strength 8 or more the vehicle has a 5+ invulnerable saves, this invulnerable save does not apply to blast weapons unless the blast is centered on the hull of the vehicle.
>>47523429
ywf the APS cancelled a tau xbawkshueg railgun shot.
Can you people shut up and post tanks?
>>47523429
It's only good against projectiles though - 40k has a lot of non-projectile weapons.
Does that Grey Knight wargear with the silly rule mentioning "plasma weapons" that included Burst Cannons still exist, to use as a reference?
Missile weapons might be easier
>>47523523
>bitches about people not posting tanks
>doesn't post a tank or armoured vehicle of any sort
>>47523523
If mines were a thing...
>>47523558
Are you happy with something Medusa-esque?
For when you need that building in front of you to just disappear
Real life Conqueror.
>>47515086
Because the "M" stands for model and the "1" or "3" stands for the series. ie: the "M3 Grease Gun" is the third model of the Grease Gun series
Maybe with a heavy stubber of bolter this would work?
>>47523585
Sure
Armageddon pattern Macharius Vanquisher.
Retreating is heresy pattern Minotaur.
