Kings of War/Mantic general: Surprisingly Active Edition.
Condensed rules:
http://puggimer.net/documents/KOW_Ref_2-0.pdf
Books:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War
Errata:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW%20FAQ%20and%20Errata%20290915.pdf
Recommended list builder:
kow2.easyarmy.com
Hit "PDF" at the top right for easy posting of your lists
Includes relevant special rules on the last page.
Kings of Math Damage Calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QBfREAWucgTPeoEhXxO3fqDU141IQw7Ajgp71m5cizs/edit#gid=0
Old Thread: >>47419321
>>47498951
>Surprisingly Active Edition.
Not at 10 PM - 5 AM Pacific it's not
So what's Dungeon Saga like?
I was thinking of picking it up since it's only a 100 bucks.
Tournament Results from a small Aussie tournament I attended.
1.Abyssal Dwarfs
2. Abyssals
3. Herd
4. Dwarfs
5. Undead
6. Undead
7. Undead
8. Varangur
9. Dwarfs
10. Dwarfs
11. Abyssals
12. Undead
I played Varangur, won two and lost two.
I won't complain about my luck again, I won the lucky dip and got an Ogre army box.
>>47501401
Where in Australia did you play?
>>47501432
Ringwood, Melbourne.
>>47496188
Most of them are not that hot looking anyway. The material really robs the minis of their detailes.
>>47501509
There was a tournament? Bugger missed it
>>47501390
The game itself is a fun and simple dungeon romp. But the expansions are not so good, and have a tendency to be too easy.
The kickstarter exclusive missions, on the other hand, look good.
>>47501742
Are you in the Melbourne region?
>>47501401
>Tournament Results
>12 rankings
Is that the full list of armies who played?
>No Elves played
I don't believe it
>>47501800
Yeah, we only had 12. It's not a major regional event, just a get-together between FLGS regulars and some friends-of-friends.
About the KoM, is a horde of chariots worth it over a reg of knights ? Same everything except that the chariots are def 4 instead of 5, and they have bows, for 10 points less.
>>47502173
Charioteers are in a weird spot role-wise. They're fast with ranged weapons, but they're not terribly accurate with their bows (Ra 5+), and Thundering Charge (2) means that you want to get in melee at some point. Unlike knights though, their Me is worse (4+ compared to a knights 3+) and as you noted, worse Def. Additionally, they have a much larger footprint compared to knights, which can get awkward thanks to terrain. A horde of charioteers is 150x200; a regiment of knights is 125x100. A huge difference. This CAN be played to your advantage, as having a larger footprint means you can manipulate how your opponent moves his troops, but be mindful of your large flank.
At first glance it seems like you want them to scoot around, firing their bows at deceptively long distances, but moving means they're hitting on a 6+ which is horribly inaccurate. Their worse stats mean they can't stand up to a counter-charge quite as well as knights, and charging from the front is a poor idea. Thus, they're kind of stuck performing the duties of knights, which is flank/rear charges.
I struggle to see what use charioteers fill that isn't done better by other units. If you need a good charger, take knights; if you need shooting, take any of the dedicated ranged units in the army. If you want a mobile weapon platform, take a beast of war with a ballista, or a couple troops of mounted scouts for cheap screening units. If charioteers had Thundering Charge (3) or had a better Ra I could see a use for them, but as it is they're less durable knights and more expensive mounted scouts. while being
>>47502955
*while being worse at both.
>>47501790
yup
>>47501401
>Nearly all the armies are evil.
More or less expected for aussies.
>>47504460
Mantic's evil armies are generally look much better looking than their neutral and good armies that are all over the place. The dwarves have weird proportions, all their plastic guys are compact lumps that often has the wrists fused with the toros and they got toothbrushes for beards. The elves have awkward poses, their spears looks like they are as thick as their anorectic limbs and their heads looks larger than they should by a trick of the eye. The Basileans are just all kinds of bad besides their angels which are one of the better fantasy minis of Mantic. The Forces of Nature is a mixed bag with two decent plastic kits. The Ogre however is by far the most consistent army of the neutral bunch and they look fine.
The evil armies has the undead and greenskins which looks like what you might expect from their themes without any major issues in consistency. The Twilight Kin is in redesign limbo. The Forces of the Abyss are generally good without having any mini that looks like ass. The Abyssal Dwarves on the other hand is really the only evil faction that I think looks bad and that's mostly because they are based on the plastic dwarves, so they end up with similar fundamental problems.
So the only way to not look goofy is to go evil or ogre.
>>47504713
My only real complaint about the Abyssal Dwarfs is the ugly-ass hats they have. I'm one of the few that apparently has no problem with the basic dwarfs Mantic has to offer--they aren't abjectly awful, just kind of generic and serviceable. But the AD hats? Terrible.
At least the obsidian golems look good.
>>47505095
The hats are a bit overdesigned, so the regiments just ends up looking like a mess.
>>47505224
Exactly. Say what you will about the old Chaos Dwarfs, their hat designs gave a clear outline and common design element between models, so they all look like a cohesive whole instead of crumbled tinfoil.
>>47505366
I'm not realt against the gargoyle helmets, but they kinda need be slimmed down or something to not look like a hedge of spikes and teeth. I would just like to see Mantic resculpt the entire dwarven line to look more like what they are doing in Warpath.
>>47501401
>No Elves
Glad to see the knife ears finally in their proper place after 8th
>>47501750
I am interested in the expansion that lets you create your own character. That sounds like it would give an edge over let's say Descent.
>>47505656
>>47505366
If I didn't have 4 whole armies to paint I'd buy some AD, sculpt them chapkas and make tsarist Abyssal Dwarves
>>47506021
Geographically it fits.
>>47498951
hey, new undead player here, but I dont see a suggested model list for the undead, unlike all the other factions. If there is one, could some one please link it?
Finally going to get into this game after finding a group in Maryland and I'm working on getting back into playing my Skaven, well Ratkin now. What's some good ways to transition my army to play in KoW? I think the basing is really interesting and I've got something around 3000 pts worth of Skaven back before GW shat the bed. Any analogue suggestions? Seems pretty self explanatory.
>>47507396
You have analogues for everything, but now you have options for mounts which will require some conversion of you want to use those options. Analogues are straight forward IE shock troops are storm vermin, warriors are clan rats, demonspawn are vermin lords and so on.
For basing you don't need to rebase your army of course, but if you do you can try multi basing by creating some dioramas. I would recommend getting a few hirst arts casts to make it look like your dudes are in a sewer.
>>47507595
Awesome. Seems easy enough. Are the tactics largely the same? I'm going to miss Warplock-Engineers but everything else seems pretty good and I'm hoping to use my old warmachine list.
>>47507663
That is right. They and goblins are the games swarm armies, but Ratkin have more in the way of monsters and warmachines.
>>47507396
Most things are pretty 1:1 with Skaven, just with their names switched around.
The Stormvermin analogue, Shock Troops, are shockingly good now. Take them. Have a caster pal around behind them casting Bane Chant and watch them make mulch of enemy units.
The Vermin Lord equivalent, the Demon Spawn, is possibly the most powerful hero monster in the game. He's hideously expensive, but he absolutely pulls his weight and then some.
All your weapon teams are now on 50mm bases. You can work around this by making a tray to slide the team onto, or using magnets. They're not terribly good, since they like to run and only have a 12" range, but 10 shots (with piercing if you want to upgrade it) can put on some hurt.
The Death Engine is your screaming bell/plague furnace replacement. Similarly, the mutant rat fiend is your hellpit analogue. Both are good units, and it all depends on your taste and points allotment.
The Shredder is basically the warp lightning cannon. It's probably the best of the warmachines in the list, though you can make an argument that the Artillery unit can be useful thanks to indirect fire.
>>47508986
Any rules for Storm Fiends and such? I read somewhere there are but I am having the worst time trying to find it. Also an Abyssal Canon is apparently another analogue for the warp lightning cannon but can't find anything for that either
>>47507663
>>47507663
Note, army comp is really, really different from Fantasy. Warmachines, monsters and heroes aren't limited by points percentage, but instead by how many troop and horde sized units you take. I don't know if this will have any bearing on if you can run a warmachine list. I can run my monster mash Nightstalker army just fine and that's similar in army comp to what I imagine your warmachine list would be like, but I'm unfamiliar with ratkin, so just be wary of that fact.
>>47510453
>monster mash Nightstalker
I [another person] was just looking at Nightstalker and its monsters. They look pretty interesting.
Any quick tips to share?
>>47510453
Technically its regiment and horde sized armies you take, but you are right about the overall composition. If you are focused on big guys then you can still take lots of large infantry and large cavalry to make up the bulk of your forces, and then dedicate the rest to monsters. With Nightstalkers you won't need heros of course.
What's the lowest point level you can go to before the balance starts to fray, or what would be good for a "this is our first game, let's do something reasonably balanced but not too huge"
>>47512681
1000, I think.
>>47509128
The closest thing you can get to Storm Fiends is taking a unit of Brutes and giving them the Diadem of Dragon-kind artifact, which will give them Breath Attack (10).
The closest thing to an Abyssal Cannon (whatever that may be) is the Angkor Heavy Mortar from the Abyssal Dwarf list. That's basically the Hellcannon equivalent.
>>47512681
1000 points is already a good game, it will be the scale of a 1500-2000 points battle in warhams
Just got done with NashCon this weekend - really fun event.
>>47502173
Chariots have a huge footprint, meaning they have less options than knights.
Chariots can sit back and shoot and then charge whatever gets close. Knights have to hope there are no chaff or their enemies are slower or rely on chaff.
Different roles entirely. But id go for knights personally, unless you want more ranged attacks with the additional threat range.
>>47514086
A group of us were really hoping to make that event but unfortunately it just wasn't viable. I saw that Rob had only 1 spot left, what was the final headcount?
>>47502173
Aside from the Elves with their better Ra I don't see a reason to field chariots. That said I am eyeballing an EoD army and strongly considering some chariot shenanigans.
>>47507663
>I'm going to miss Warplock-Engineers
Re-read the list. Warlock have access to the very powerful lightning bolt (3). Taking them in numbers is not a bad strategy.
What is the "UB" being used in this thread
http://vb.manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/general-discussion-aa/281418-kings-of-war-map-pack
and what do you do with these .ubm files in the dropbox links?
About how many dice should I buy for this game? A lot of the attack numbers look pretty high. Would about thirty do the trick? I am getting Shadowrun flashbacks already.
>>47517683
Thirty should be fine.
Some rolls get to over 100 with a rear charge, but you can just role again after counting them.
Anons, what would be a good army to use as a base for cultists of the eternal end?
>>47518621
Let's see, that be something something tough to represent their robotic nature, with archers, large cav and priests.
Dwarfs could work (Abyssal or Normal.) So could Forces of Nature or Elves. Basilea or Varagur or the Forces of the Abyss might work on a stretch.
Take something where you can take a lot of allies.
>>47517003
Universal Battle, online versions of tabletop games.
How's this for 1000 pts?
Spear Warriors
Horde(40) 185
Shock Troops
Regiment(20) 135
Regiment(20) 135
Brutes
Regiment(3) 115
- Diadem of Dragon-kind 30
Death Engine 170
- Bloody Carnage 25
Enforcer Hero (Inf) 45
- Inspiring Talisman 20
Warlock Hero 90
Swarm-crier Hero 45
- War-bow of Kaba 5
Any critique is appreciated
>>47517683
I picked up 100 16mm dice off Amazon for $6, works fantastic.
>>47520744
Is only one source of inspiring (The Swarm-Crier) going to be enough?
>>47517683
30 dice will do.
I also like having particular amounts of different colours.
10 red, 10 blue and 5 grey. That way I barely need to count: when my Sons of Korgaan charge I just grab all the reds and blues. Makes the game that little bit easier.
>>47522673
I was thinking the same thing, hence why I put the Inspiring Trinket on the Enforcer to keep some overlap
>>47523170
Ah yes, I overlooked that.
>>47522759
Good idea. I will see if I can do that for all of my major units, thanks anon.
>>47518621
What's that?
>>47525535
Endless Legend faction
Essentially a bunch of cultists who focus mainly on converting miscellaneous monsters rather than having a uniform army. I would say that anything with a generic enough large infantry and large cavalry option could do the trick, so you can sub in any models you want.
Why isn't the PDF for Destiny of Kings in the Mediafire? Are there any scans or uploads of it at all?
Should I have more regiments than hordes or like what
I'm not sure on the balance between them
There's "have whatever lets you support the WMs/heroes/monsters that you want" which sound good, but I'm unsure on the horde vs regiment balance here, and the ramifications of going heavy in one way, beyond having less things on the field means less opportunities to flank.
>>47527188
I didn't find any desu, people says it's prescindible tough.
>>47527287
Pretty sure that's highly situational, depending on who you play, who you play against, local meta.
Hordes can be blocked easier than regiments.
>>47527287
Hirdes are less manuverable, and also have the problem of forcing you to put lots of eggs in one basket.
If you tie up a horde with a tarpit unit or a disposable unit, which isn't that hard to do considering how much less manuverable they are, then you take a fairly sizable chunk out of your enemy's army for at least one turn.
Where can I get those tournament rules that make it so disordered fliers can't fly, or whatever?
>>47530430
I would like to see this too, the 2015 tournament pack doesn't seem to have it
>>47504713
>So the only way to not look goofy is to go evil or ogre.
New player here, How are Ogres and Undead?
I mean, I'm pretty sure that they're polar opposites; one being few tough units while the other is a horde of squishier units, but I love the sculpts from both of them.
How are the Ogre Hunters as a unit? I absolutely love the sculpts, they scream Ogre Caveman
>>47530967
They are actually not a bad choice, but aren't bulwalkers in the same way that other ogre units are meant to be. You can of course use GW ogres and undead if you don't like the models for some units (Or simply can't get Mantic models for some of the units like the Mammoth).
>>47530430
>>47530504
Worth noting that this is not an official rule change, just some suggestions for this specific tournament with input from the rules committee. Some tournaments might use it, some might not, some might make different changes.
>>47531609
The actual interesting part is pages 11 & 12, by the way. Push scenario seems neat.
Interested in playing. Is there any big differences between not-Tomb Kings and not-Vampire Counts? And does anyone know anywhere that sells decent skeleton miniatures? Mantic's skele archers have too much weird lumpy cloth on them.
>>47533385
Undead have lifeleech, which recovers damage.
Empire of Dust have one-use upgrades that give them a big surge forward, making them more mobile.
Both have good heroes and cheap, expendable infantry, with Undead having the edge in terms of elite/heavy infantry. (Wights and Wraiths are imo the best undead units, both absent from empire.)
If you want to do a mix, nothing stopping you from allying.
>>47533385
For archers Wargames Factory has solid barebones(In a literal sense, no lumpy cloth or anything beyond a quiver being worn) plastic skeletons that can be assembled as archers.
The VC equivalent isn't that close to VC in the sense that they are meant to be a more overall forces of undead list, with options for your army to be lead by liches and such rather than just vampires. You no longer have large cavalry like the Black Coach or the Corpse Cart, no bat swarms or giant bats, and banshees and cairn wraiths are part of Nightstalkers now(Though no one is stopping you from just putting them in a unit of wraiths or using them as revenants). You now have options like vampire foot soldiers, Wights which are the big Ushabti like dudes(Western themed of course) that have some Fate Stay Night bullshit being fueled by the legends of past heroes, and of course the skeletal archers that you mentioned along with liches and pharoahs(Very durable skeletal beatstick heroes).
>>47533777
Oh yeah, you now have catapults which are great for providing support and forcing nerve tests
>>47533788
Forcing nerve tests isn't really what catapults are good for. One attack on a 5+ isn't exactly reliable.
>>47534232
Yeah, the undead catapult is more a distraction than anything else. It has the potential to do some serious damage, and a good shot can wipe out a unit, but it's far from a reliable damage source.
They are however, not that expensive, and you're practically swimming in warmachine slots since Undead don't have monsters. Plus, you can surge and shoot, which potentially can come in handy (maybe).
>>47533777
>Nightstalkers
Those are the guys with the scarecrows, right? What's their gimmick?
>>47535136
Nightmares, horror and ethereal madness made manifest.
>>47535136
No sources of Inspiring. Instead they steal it from thebopponent.
>>47535136
Lovecraftian/dreamlike nightmare creatures. Talons, tentacles, horrors from the void, that sort of thing. Some people are using tyranids, ghosts, lots of reaper aberrations.
>>47531609
Thanks for posting this anon.
Glad to see the chess clocks in there. I've been to two tournies without them where it's 1hr 40 min for each game without clocks and only about half the tables get to finish 6th turn.
>>47535136
Nightstalkers are oogie boogie bump in the night bed time horror monsters mixed in with lovecraftian elder things from beyond the veil.
They have no official models, but reaper and wyrd make a lot of things that can fit the bill.
>Momminiaturas is doing Dark Elves now.
Wew this lad.
It's a quibble, but I wish that Mantic updated their mantic points page. How about some orcs, goblins or abyssals?
I've got ~35 points to burn, but nothing really grabs me.
>>47537445
I think you used to be able to get much nicer things for lots of points.
Just picked up a mega and starter army dwarf set fairly new to the game looking for a 1000 point list so me and a friend can just get going in the game
>>47537947
Well, don't be afraid to proxy some expensive units that you fancy for playtesting before you start buying more stuff.
>>47537947
I made this list so that it has a mix of unit types and sizes, playing it a few times will help you get a feel for what different units are capable of.
I have also included only 1 inspiring unit so that other stuff can fit in, normally you want 1 inspiring for every 500-700 points.
>>47533777
Maybe I'm just shit at navigating their site, but Wargame Factory merged with some other minis company, and by the look of it, stopped selling like 99% of their product range, skeletons included.
>>47539514
Warlord bought them out. WGF's stuff will be available on Warlord's store sooner or later.
>>47539615
Let's hope so, some of they minis are a very good bargain.
>>47539817
They have put some up like all of their Samurai and the Orcs. Some like their WW2 soldiers are probably never coming back as Warlord would rather sell us their kits (Which are actually better, though slightly more expensive). Skeletons haven't come back yet sadly.
What I really miss is their War of Spanish Succesion cannon. The crew figures look nifty and the entire thing is plastic of course, as opposed to the metal ones that you would have to buy elsewhere.
>>47539841
Previously OOP WGF products are back at my LFGS but not in Warlord web store (the survivors, the zombies and some part of the Spanish range).
Odd as shit.
>>47540527
It's the same here. A lot of the OOP kits are still stocked, but they just haven't moved rather than the store ordering more. They even had the skeletons, but someone else already bought them.
>>47540605
But that's the thing, before that they weren't stocked, and weren't available even at a national level anymore. Now they are back, and I think I saw Warlord games written on the boxes.
>>47540745
Maybe they're filling out back-orders first.
I don't really care for fantasy dark elves and their skirts, so I'm fooling around with kitbashing some Dark Eldar models. I've only assembled a few, but I'm liking how they look. The fact that they are meant for a sci-fi game gives them an "advanced race" sort of feel, yet there's nothing that definitely shouldn't be there.
>>47542474
Pics about that? Kitbashing units are my fetish.
>>47543117
Mostly in the planning stages. Here's what this fellow looks like with simply his arms replaced with fantasy dark elf spearman arms. Not sure I want to go this route with the spear + shield, or have the spearmen using them two handed, since their plate armor could easily represent their De score.
>>47543250
I would go for two handed or a little shield ala Phalangitai myself, right now they have a very cool Guan Yu vibe.
>>47543497
I actually do have phalangite shields from a historical kit, I will experiment with how that looks. Good idea.
Any tips for a 1k game? Only ever played at 2k so I'm not sure if there are any pitfalls I missing. I assuming the same ideas apply across the point ranges. Would 2 ASB in a 1k Ogre list be too much? It's the scheme I would follow but it's nearly another drop.
>>47530967
Ogre Hunters have ensnare, I ran a regiment once and forgot that rule like a fucking pleb... They have their uses. Ogres have large unit frontages so you need all the tricks you can get.
So. Decimators. I'm torn as to whether regiments or troops are the most cost-effective choice.
On the one hand, troops are cheaper and a smaller target, but on the other hand get blown away very easily.
On the other, a regiment is more durable and has more shots to bear, but is larger and can get tied up rather easily.
I really rather doubt a horde would be a good choice, as while it has a hideous amount of shots, it's a nice big juicy expensive target.
>>47544748
It depends. Usually when people see a horde of shooters, they tend to stay away from the line of sight, even if it's not that strong. Therefore it can be a good distraction, I used a horde of handgunners to virtually split the table in 2 last game.
>>47544924
Hm. I see a lot of people taking them in hordes with Heart-seeking Chant or Blessings of the Gods. Sounds potentially powerful, if you can screen them effectively.
I have enough dorfs with guns to where I can do 4 troops, 2 regiments, or a horde. Might just base them on troop bases and rank them up as I see fit.
>>47544924
I've been planning on putting together a shooting heavy Goblins army, would you recommend putting most if not all of the Spitters in hordes?
>>47547834
I'd assume you'd want hordes just to unlock warmachines and heroes (wiz spam) if nothing else.
Obviously hordes are the most effective in terms of points per shot, but the tradeoff is they get locked down by a fast individual more easily. Probably not a huge problem for goblins where even the horde is cheap, though.
>>47547834
You'd take more hordes than other armies, but don't forget you'll want regiments to force nerve tests.
>>47505366
Really? Egad - every one of these bastards was like the pope. He was 60% hat. They were awful.
And don't even get me started on the man o war ships.
>>47549946
I'm comparing them to Mantic's offerings, which has these overwrought hats that ruin the silhouette of the models.
The old Chaos Dwarfs were charming and goofy in their own way, but they're not what I'd call *good* models. I've seen people convert plastic GW dwarfs into CD ones that look way better than the old models while still having that charm to them. See pic related.
I'll give you the ships though. Those were awful.
So I was thinking of making a Forces of Basilea list with a green knight/St Francis theme.
What units form the Forces of Nature list work well with Basilea?
>>47550173
Centaurs for nimble cavalry and hit and run archers and elementals for big CS monsters. Basilea already has a lot of good stuff with artillery, flyers, wizards, and hard hitting cavalry. Keep in mind that The Brotherhood is the equivalent of the Brets, though in fluff Valandor is the equivalent of the Green Knight.
>>47550313
To add to this, the Brotherhood also have access to water elementals, so if you play your cards right you could potentially have enough models for three armies.
>>47529806
While hordes are less manuverable, what you gain almost always seems to make up for it.
Hordes always cost less than the 2 regiments you take in there place
Hordes always have a much higher nerve
Hordes will in general provide more attacks (standard being 12 as a Reg 25 as a horde)
I understand the eggs in a basket complaint, but you also dont lose attacks as you take damage.
Say you have to reg instead of a horde 10 dmg is very likely to break a reg. You lose 12 attacks.
10 dmg to a horde and they dont give a fuck. enjoy all 25 coming back at you.
In short if you can take a horde, it will beat 2 regiments on almost every metric.
>>47548233
In a sense, I think a few guys running around with lightning (5) is better to ping units.
>>47549946
Sure, the giant chimney hats that were as tall as the dwarf itself with a giant knob at the top looked dumb, but the general mesopotamien concept and sillhouette is not bad as displayed in the russian knockoffs. They rather solved the problems by adjusting the proportions.
I would enjoy painting these russian ones over Forgeworld's industrial looking ones that kinda misses the point of the Chaos Dwarves fancying themselves an extravagant ruling class rather than spooky looking smiths, or Mantic's wonky looking version. That being said. I think Mantic's Abyssal Dwarves could look good if they improved the current art design and made the proportions less over place. The recent character models they made for them does kinda nail what they should be going for.
>>47553858
Mantic just generally needs to hire an in house sculptor, and generally do away with their awful old sculpts.
>>47554229
They also sit on a stock of minis they need to sell and make returns on investments. People apparently seems to buy the dwarves so there is no reason for them to rush out new ones.
I also wonder if fantasy wargamers in general dislikes to assemble their minis more than the sci-fi wargamers? The multipart kits they have made for Deadzone/Warpath comes with many more parts and options compared to the Kings of War ones.
>>47554387
Just personally I don't really like assembling minis. Painting is great fun, but gluing is shit. Especially resin or metal.
>>47554971
I rather like it myself. It reminds me of building Lego.
>>47554387
I personally love the assembling part but I'm not that fond of the painting.
>>47550141
kek chess pieces.
>>47555283
I think those are board pins.
So Straight up, I played my first two games last week. I loved it - dusted off the old orc warhammer army for the first time since the early 90's. I've got a sweet list for a couple of games tomorrow night against a goblin player. This game is so simple and sweet, I can't wait to play a bunch of games and get gud.
I'm not into netlisting ever, as I think it diminishes the enjoyment of the game. My plan is to march 2 ax hoards and a couple of morax regiments down his throat while harassing the flanks with giants. Initial plan is to hide the morax behind the hoards and heal the hoards with the wizard while the gakamak inspires everybody. I have no idea if this is going to work against all those archers, but we'll find out. Feel free to comment on this approach, but the plan is set. I doubt the plan will survive first contact, but anything is possible.
If it goes poorly, I'll try swapping out the giants for some archers, with the intent to dent up his anvil unit before the beef gets there. The quicker that disappears, the sooner I've got morax regiments disintegrating his archer hoards and war machines.
Another approach to try would be fileding 4 hoards with two godspeakers for 12 healing dice a turn. That looks like some lovely ratfuckery.
completely amped for a new game. I'll post back here and let the board know how things went along with some pics, though my buddy's gobbos are nothing to look at.
>>47555310
They are! Awesome!
>>47549946
> Hating on the big hats
>>47555405
That's awesome, I love it when a game brings new life to old models.
I wait eagerly for your pics.
>>47549946
You have no sense of style.
>>47555405
Fantastic! I look forward to seeing the Orcs stomp off to war!
>>47555742
keked
>>47555742
That is fucking glorious!
>>47555410
Yup, all you need to do is trim the top of the head, drill a hole in it and glue the pin into place. If you're feeling adventures you could even make the hats swapable.
Some more WIP twilight elves. The round bases there are because I originally planned to base them round then place the rounds on 100x40 rectangle. Changed plans because they don't even fit on the round bases they came with. I'm going to just place them directly on 100x20 strips, 4 wide.
No clue on a paint scheme yet. Maybe Khornate.
>>47555405
Question:
For modelling reasons, I am contemplating dropping the giants out of my list and replacing them with troll hoards. I am playing Orcs. My giants are not yet painted.
Do the troll hoards count as "allies" for the purposes of buffing godspeaker spells? The rulebook describes allies as coming from another codex. Trolls are in a bunch of different codexes - so I don't know if they count as "allied" or not.
>>47556456
Are they in the ORC codex?
>>47556465
yup
>>47556456
It depends whether you are taking the trolls as allies or not.
If you take trolls from the orc list: they count as part of your main army as irregular troops. You can buff them with wizards/inspiring etc.
If you take them as (say) Goblin allies: they count as an allied horde. Your wizards/inspiring does not apply, but they count as a horde for your allied contingent, unlocking heroes/warmachines/troops.
This design is intentional. tl;dr: depends which list you take them as.
>>47556419
I dig it.
>>47555742
Hmm color schemes... Perhaps white and black as basic with red details? More or less tipical of bad dudes. Plus a chekered pattern is ever cool.
>>47556490
okay. I see. I had missed the implication for unlocking troop choices as a result of selecting a hoard.
So I'll be taking the troll hoards as native orc and have their existence help my wizard do stuff.
>>47556686
Yeah, its a subtle difference. Trolls are irregulars as orcs, but standard as goblins.
So will the Nightkin get minis in the planned skirmish game?
>>47558538
Not trolling but Nightkin isn't a faction. If you mean Ratkin, yes they have announced plans to make some filler units. If you mean Nightstalkers, I have not seen anything to imply Mantic planning on a model range. The Nightstalkers are in essence your greatest fears, which lends itself fantastically to hobby gaming.
>>47559278
I think he means Twilight Kin. Last I heard they aren't going to start on their new model line until next year.
Do any of you guys have army concepts that you really want to try? I want to make a Twilight Kin army with pic related as an Abyssal Archfiend and the GW Dark Elves painted green and red.
>>47559577
I like the idea of an evil offshoot of the Northern Alliance that worships Winter. I'll probably use Twilight Kin with appropriate proxies for humans and ice monsters.
>>47558538
>>47559278
Ronnie mentioned several armies being greenlit recently, one of which is the Nightstalkers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_MLK40CPBA
Literally the first question asked in the vid. is about Nightstalkers
>>47559577
Nightstalkers army styled as Winter horde, with big snowmen and other spooky snow stuff.
Russian (either tsarist or commie) abyssal dwarves
>>47561703
>Nightmares
>Nightcrawlers
They are Nightstalkers god damn it
>>47562004
I vote we henceforth refer to them as 'The Scary Army' to avoid confusion.
>>47562298
What about "the Spooky fellows" ?
>>47562503
Would get confused with Undead/EoD on account of all the skeletons.
>>47559577
>>47561557
Mine are going to be a sort of mish mash of the Dark Elf and Dark Eldar lore. So they are renegade raiders who want to eat your souls.
They will have to be pretty friendly with skaven for some reason though, because that's all I have painted to use as allies.
>>47561703
Beautiful.
I wanted to support Mantic by buying minis, but I already have full armies for everything I want to play in KoW... except for Nightstalkers.
I'll gladly drop an unreasonable amount on an offical nightstalker army.
>>47563616
I would love to see them in a Kickstarter for the KoW skirmish game with the Empire of Dust and a couple of other factions. Having a your dudes game that doesn't require huge blocks of soldiers and is actually commercially supported in a large way would be fantastic.
>>47563741
I'm actually somewhat surprised that Mantic hasn't tried not-Mordheim yet.
The only game I can think of that attempts to follow Mordheim's spirit is Frostgrave, and even then that game is wildly different.
>>47566054
The Star-Struck City is a fan-made attempt at just that, using the KoW ruleset.
https://ironwatch.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/v1-1-update-for-the-star-struck-city/
>>47566054
I think that the second KoW kickstarter was a spontaneous decision brought on by WHFB the End Times. It was the best possible timing to hype their game they could ever have hoped for. If they would have ran it a year later chances are that people would have been less openminded to it. So KoW was allowed to leap ahead in the schedule and with the rampant success the game has been enjoying they are can now seriously entertain the idea to expand it further.
Before that it at least seemed that they out much more effort into the Warpath line of games.
>>47566287
>https://ironwatch.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/v1-1-update-for-the-star-struck-city/
Neat!
>>47566054
Have you tried SoBaH with some sups? Song of gold and darkness for dungeon fun, song of deeds and glory for extended campaigns and song of wind and water for more terrain, tough the later is the more prescindible of the three, with the basic SoBaH has a very rules light but good ways to make your own warbands progress. Get them in the pdf thread or in torrents to try them, if you like it and have the money buy it they are a cool company.
>>47556419
The shields look strange because they are so round and plain when everything else is spikes and detail. Might be alleviated by painting spiky patterns on them, but it bothers me as they are.
>>47562584
Maybe they could just be using the ratmen as fighting slaves.
I realised that I can reach 2000 points of KoM with the historicals I have with this list.
But should I?
>>47566054
It think they confirmed a fantasy skirmish game at the latest Mantic open day
>>47571082
It's not out of wack, I'd probably have put Vicious and Elite on the knights rather than your loadout but that's just me.
>>47571603
Potion of the Caterpillar is so fucking good on cavalry, pretty much guarantees the charge if you can plant yourself behind/in scenery
>>47571082
Potion of Cavalry(Caterpillar) is probably the best choice for most heavy cav units. Nothing worse than losing TC due to a Hindered charge.
>>47571603
>>47571629
>>47572642
The Crushing Strength also makes the unit less dependant on getting an unhindered charge, which is a strength of cav units like Kaisenor Lancers and Abyssal Halfbreeds.
>>47571402
How many half-arsed barebones games are they going to make?
They're trying to be classic GW, but will crash and burn because they're not big enough to absorb the failures.
>>47571082
Historicals army lists for KoW are out soon.
>>47572949
Which failures ?
>>47572949
>How many half-arsed barebones games are they going to make?
They have made none so far. Everything has been very well written and fun.
>>47572949
Even if a game they release doesn't sell well, the initial investment is usually covered by a kickstarter.
>>47572949
Classic GW did not write consistent balance.
>>47573367
Truer words have rarely been spoken.
Has anybody here actually played Star Struck City?
>>47573524
I just downloaded that ruleset yesterday, haven't had a chance to read through it too much. For a fan made game it seems pretty legit. Plus I'll be able to break out my old Mordheim terrain.
>>47561703
>The Succubi have been very popular
Cheeky as fuck. They don't have fun Juan Diaz poses, but I do like that they aren't androgynous.
>>47572949
>How many half-arsed barebones games are they going to make?
Zero ?
>>47573367
Savage
>>47572949
Even when mantic release meh rules, they tend to correct they mistakes in the next release, like it happened with KoW.
>>47506569
What do you mean? Other companies to get your minis?
New Dungeon Saga teasers up on Mantic's facebook.
>>47581230
>>47581230
I need that.
>>47581241
>>47581230
>>47581241
It's interesting that Tree Dude seems to have two different sculpts for the same character. I think the Salamander also does, but it's a bit harder to tell.
>>47581230
>>47581241
Looks pretty good. Did they finally get good painters?
>>47574564
Their Succubus models are nice. I've thought about getting some for allies.
Anyone here in the Seattle region?
>>47586597
No?
>>47581230
IF the treemen than mantic released were like him but taller they would have been so much better...
Some dude made his own golem for his dwarf army.
Ironwatch Issue 46.
It's all foam/clay, 100% hand-shaped.
I'm kind of impressed. I haven't seen a scratch build in awhile
>>47587398
Bloody Hell, he's enormous! Nicely sculpted too.
More Australian Tournament results, this is from a tournament series in Queensland.
Strangely, it has the same trend as the other one from earlier in the thread. Biggest love is for dwarfs, then for evil armies, then the rest.
>>47588207
>Elves average placing 10th
>TK average placing 1st
to be fair there are less TKs than elves, but still amusing, if I'm understanding it correctly.
>>47588207
Are TK that good? They seem to wreck in that tournie.
>>47589774
3 Appearances in 9 tourneys probably means that it's the one great player using them all three times.
I haven't played with or against Twilight Kin, but I've heard that they can bring absolutely murderous shooting armies.
>>47555405
Okay, So I had the showdown with the gobbos last night. My buddy's unbeatable goblins ate their first loss, though it wasn't pretty.
We rolled Invasion for the mission.
Me:
2 ax hoard (dwarven Ale, potion of fortitude)
2 troll hoard
2 morax troop
gakmagak
godspeaker heal
wardrum
Him
Rabble legion
2 archer hoards
2 sharpsticks
3 war trombones (holy shit these things are awesome)
3 mincers
2 balistas
2 wiz
2 flaggers
???
Anyway, I learned a ton of stuff.
Once we rolled the mission, I knew that my approach would be to hide everbody behind the ax hoards and just march onto his side of the table, whilst getting punched in the face. That's pretty much how it ended up. His dice were awful. At one point he flanked an ax hoard with some sharpsticks and managed to inflict zero wounds on 40 dice - it was one of those days.
Hoards are HUGE and I was constantly stepping on my own dick trying to navigate the terrain.
Keeping all the hoards within 6" of wardrum, godspeaker and gamagak was pretty much impossible.
Healing is a thing? Maybe I can exploit by taking 2 more godspeakers in the future and ditching one of the troll hoards, who looked mean, but never really got to crump anything.
25mm bases are a pain and a significant disadvantage.
I won the game. He had a punchers chance when it went to turn 7 - if he killed the right 3 units, he would have salvaged a draw, but was only able to kill 2. My victory was due to my brilliant strategy (and his crap dice). MVP was the ax hoards who took a horrible beating and somehow survived for 5-6 turns - they did their job.
Large blocks are just not that destructive. I can only assault one thing a turn (if I'm lucky). meanwhile, I'm getting rolled by all these tiny tromboles, lightnigh bolts, archers, breath weapons, etc.
If we had rolled any other mission, I'm getting crushed.
fun game. Look forward to trying stuff with cavalry - I've got about 50 boar/wolf riders waiting in the wings for their turn.
>>47587398
So metal...
>>47590318
>hoard
>>47573367
This is totally true.
Is thrashing your game balance in an attempt to drive sales an inevitable step in the company's evolution? You hire employees, and these employees are counting on the business to drive sales so they can get checks. The temptation to exploit the competitive nature of your customer's is too great to resist.
I would suggest that a good approach for these businesses would be to develop a 'service' sector of their business - host tournaments, events, gamedays. Keep the models cheap (egad, they do this now), the rules pristine, and the factions balanced. Release errata, nerfs/buffs based on competition results.
Blizzard did this for 10 years with battle.net and became one of the most successful games companies in the world.
>>47590318
Seems like a fun day, I never expected goblins to do so well. I was thinking in getting some from mantic but I heard thye plastic kit for gobs are crap.
Will undead ever get bigger scary stuff beyond werewolves? I want to go full Castlevania.
>>47590640
They are all MSU. Dude has like 17 drops at 1500 points - and that's including a rabble leigon and a couple of sharpstick blocks. Most of them have ranged attacks and are doing work all the time. They are incredibly destructive. The mincers will just murder anything that dares charge the gunline.
gobbos are sick. Why does nobody think they are good?
>>47590664
Like what? Have you considered allies? Night-Stalker has stuff that can be spooky
>>47590664
Having no monster units seems to be intentional. If you want more of those, then roll with it ally with Empire of Dust for things like the hulk and the bone giant.
>>47590664
Trolls and Wights are decent large infantry options already. Do you mean large cavalry or actual monsters? Looking at the design of the figures, it seems that Mantic wants to go full Evil Dead.
>>47590438
The thing is that GW didn't have balance to begin with and not everyone was happy with the balance either because it ruined the "crazy fun". So GW just ended up creating two different markets for fantasy and sci-fi wargames that they couldn't please at the same time.
>>47590044
>>47589774
TK are awful to play against. Good shooting, excellent monsters that tenderize your shit with spells before shreking you up close, good fliers and the Hydra.
>>47592494
Yeah, but they're very close to standard Elves, aren't they? A lot of their units are just renamed Elf units. Do their differences really matter THAT much?
The hydra is pretty neat, though.
So when you destroy an enemy unit (eg a shield wall regiment) on a charge and choose to move forward D6", and you then walk forward into another enemy unit (eg a bowmen regiment), does that count as a charge?
Or does it only get to count as another charge if the original target was an individual? Rules seem to say only individuals, but it seems slightly odd to me. I guess it'd be because individuals get overrun so hard the chargers can keep surging forward?
>>47593738
>Rules seem to say only individuals
That's it. I think its more of a game balance thing. When your not able to be struck back in combat, there is zero downside to overruning, and way too much potential power there.
It works on individuals cause they are literally one model vs 10+, and usually relatively cheap compared to blocks of infantry
>>47593738
Overrunning a non-individual means you roll d6" and move the full distance forward, however:
> A unit cannot move through any other units while regrouping
> Once the regroup move has been carried out, shuffle the unit so that there is a 1" gap between it and all enemy units
So you stop 1" short of enemies.
>>47593850
>>47593882
Right-o, cool. Ran it incorrectly for my test game, but hey, test game.
I could see how it would get out of hand if it was able to overrun through normal units, what with the "they can't retaliate" setup the game has. Good idea, not letting it happen on normal units.
pls r8 my list nightstalker senpai, it's my first time so be gentle.
>Regiments
Butchers x 3
Fiends x 3
Fiends x 3
>Hordes
Butchers x 6
>Troops
Needlefangs x 6
>War Engines
Portal of Dispair
>Monsters
Planar Apparition
Shadow Hulk
Terror
>Heroes
Horror (Bane chant 2, Surge 6)
Horror (Bane chant 2, Surge 6) Mreb's Book of Really Bad Stuff
Void Lurker
I could drop the needle fangs for scarecrows or blood worms, but I'm trying to shoot for as low a model count as possible while still having a decent list for non competitive games.
Also help with magic items would be nice.
They can take a lot more of monster options, maybe less flying cavalry. Also vicious everywhere is kinda powerful.
>>47597475
meant for >>47593144
>>47597475
>Also vicious everywhere is kinda powerful.
Works out the same mathematically as elite everywhere in practically every case.
>>47595977
Is your force org correct? I feel like you have 1 too many monsters/heroes
I've heard Void Lurker with Onyx Ring can be good/fun - helps make up for your lack of Stealth on em, and regeneration is just great to begin with.
No idea on overall design. You got fast elements, slower/sturdier elements, and support elements, so can't be that off.
>>47581306
I'm pretty sure that one is just the Kickstarter exclusive version, and the other is the regular version. There might be a legendary version on its way too.
>>47583147
More like the people who paint the Dungeon Saga and Deadzone stuff are actually decent. I still can't get over how they didn't even wash and drybrush the scales on the dragon.
Time to post undead
>>47599929
Where did you get the obelisk from? Your undead look like good shit so far. All I could say is that maybe spraying down the zombies with matte varnish might help as they look kind of shiny, but these are overall very nice.
>>47599951
beautiful
>>47599982
Thanks, yeah they arnt as bad in person but custom wash leaves them very gloss, they actually already have a matte coat
>>47599982
Oh and the obelisk is the reaper bones pilliar of evil
>>47600040
Lol, oh god, I try not to zoom in so much on my shit, still that bones ghast has that delightfuly retarded look.
>>47600066
>>47600041
Was the armor on these guys tinted through glazes or washes?
>>47600205
In this order
Also just finished my Wights
>>47600371
Sans the mantic wights
>>47600352
>Tamiya transparent paint
Nice, I will have to try those
>>47598365
Yah - the needle-fangs are irregulars, so you don't get the engine/monster/hero slot for these.
>>47599998
really nice job, Anon. 10/10 would crump and send back to grave.
>>47600352
I have one of those Tamima paints in blue - it says acrylic, but smells awful and says it's flammable on the bottle. I wound up pitching it because I rinse brushes in water and then draw to a point with my mouth as a habit. I don't want to eat even trace amounts of that stuff.
>>47600371
>That wight skewering the soldier
YES
>>47600401
>KNOCK KNOCK, GHOST COPS!
>>47600401
>>47600371
You did a great job with these.
>>47573042
All of them. Are you some sort of Mantic fanboy?
>>47591809
Are you fucking high? I have played every edition since GW's inception, they have never once produced a balanced edition of either 40gay or fantasy.
>>47597681
Mathematically yes, in reality no. Elite is much more powerful than Vicious on account of not having to fight dice attrition.
>>47606608
Ladies and gentlemen, Troll E. Trollerson, boy fondler.
>>47591809
GW also had game designers who put items in the official books as a joke then were shocked that people took this at face value and used it seriously in games.
>>47607237
Please explain what you mean more
>>47607526
Not the same guy, but I think he's indicating that rerolling to hit is better than rerolling damage.
'Dice attrition' is a pretty simple thing: every time you roll the same set of dice, you're going to lose some as you go along. Say you roll 15 dice to hit, with 7 of them hitting. Rolling for damage with those 7 dice, you come up with 4. Along the process you've 'lost' a total of 11 dice.
Elite helps to mitigate this dice attrition by allowing you to reroll 1's. It gives you another attempt at hitting, possibly landing you more hits in the process. In the above example, let's say of the 7 dice that hit on the first roll, 3 of them landed on 1's. Rerolling those, you manage to hit with all 3, netting you a total of 10 hits--a considerable increase, and a larger chance for successful damage dice.
Vicious helps mitigate some of the dice you've already lost, and if you have a large enough pool of successful hits there's not going to be that big of a statistical difference. However, if you have enough crushing strength and/or thunderous charge bonuses, Vicious isn't going to be that big of a help--you're likely to wound with most of your dice on a 2+, and hitting will be much more important for you in that case.
>>47607618
>let's say of the 7 dice that hit on the first roll, 3 of them landed on 1's
Rather, of the 7 that hit on the first roll, 3 of the rest of the 15 dice landed on 1's. Fucked up on that explanation but I think you get what I mean.
>>47600371
>Nobody expects the Wight inquisition.
>>47607618
That just goes against Anon's original point of Vicious being more powerful than Elite.
How do you guys generally feel about War Engines? They seem to be mostly too expensive to warrant their apparent inability to do any real (or reliable) damage unless you're like goblins, but maybe I'm looking at them incorrectly?
How often do you guys actually use em?
>>47609876
It depends on what they actually do, but having at least three for a solid gunline in order to guarantee hits is nice. And if you have a warmachine that is pretty much just a monster given a different name IE Steel Behemoth, then you can definitely take them in your army like you would everything else.
>>47609899
3 or more, huh? I'm just looking at the dwarf ironbelcher cannon and the ratkin artillery and their low expected output per turn is just so demoralizing to read (I believe it's like 1.833 hits for the cannon, 2.3333 for the arty?)
I mean they're not SUPER expensive and they do have 48" range so maybe it's ok. 330 points for 3 cannons, 270 for 3 arty.
Can anybody share the magic stuff listed @ http://vb.manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/general-discussion-aa/283213-unofficial-beta-test-updated-expanded-magic-for-kings-of-war
On two different browsers, logged in or not, trying to DL the files just gives me a blank page.
I'm also interested in the 4.1 listed by the other guy on page 2, but that'd just be a nice bonus
