In any science fiction setting, do you like psychic abilities? Why or why not?
Yes, adds variety, otherwise all you've got is varying flavors of dudes with guns. While guns are cool, I have guns in real life, so I can experience the dudes with guns thing any time I choose to. I don't need to pretend to be a dude with guns.
>>Depends on the setting
>Depends on the setting
Depends on the setting
>>47498198
No. It's almost always a half-assed attempt at adding magic to a genre that is, in no small way, made what it is by an absence of anything but the material. If you're going to do it, just go all out and go urban or science fantasy. We need more Shadowrun.
>>47498530
What if you do both? Have psychic powers that work on SCIENCE! and majick that doesn't?
>>47498561
Then I want a detailed explanation of how said SCIENCE! works. And one for the magic as well, actually. Get some transmutation circles up in here.
>>47498530
>We need more Shadowrun
>>47498972
Sue me.
>>47498530
>We need more Shadowrun.
We really don't, though.
>>47498994
I won't get venomous about it, but I will say no setting ever turned me off so quickly than Shadowrun. Because at its heart, the main selling point is the fantasy aspect: something I usually try to get away from when I play sci-fi games. It's literally just a pastiche of kitchen sink fantasy tropes thrown into a cyberpunk setting for no reason other than the devs read Neuromancer and decided it'd be cooler with Elves and less talking.
It's completely unappealing to me. If mostly because when I watch Bladerunner, I don't stop and think "man this would be so much better if Roy Batty were an orc and Deckard threw fireballs."
>>47499050
>It's completely unappealing to me. If mostly because when I watch Bladerunner, I don't stop and think "man this would be so much better if Roy Batty were an orc and Deckard threw fireballs."
>Not wanting to see Deckard Cain throwing fireballs, and dealing with the strain behind each blast
I wouldn't want Roy Batty to be anything else other than a Replicant-type figure though. If he was an artificial orc that MIGHT be fine?
>>47499079
You're right, seeing Harrison Ford hurl magic around in this cerebral sci fi story does sound awful.
>>47499050
I dunno about you but for me the selling point is that the fantasy has more crystalline rules than "That's just how it is." It's given more explanation than that and is then combined with science that, while not present today, is certainly conceivable today, albeit in a more grounded form.
As for kitchen sink fantasy tropes, I appreciate the fact that it has more to it than the usual medieval fantasy cheese without going completely over the top like D&D has with its bestiary, the majority of which contains names that make no sense and are stapled to unconnected and inelegant blendings of monster bits and the rest of which are boring.
I like folklore and mythology, so any setting that integrates literally all the folklore in the world while still making sense and not going the way of Rifts (arguably) like Shadowrun has refrained from doing so is going to be the setting for me.
>>47498530
Psychic powers being "accepted" in scifi is because some science-fiction magazine in USA had an editor who really thought that psychic powers were real and insisted that the writers must put them in their stories since in the future science would have proven that ESP is real and how it works.
If he had instead believed in ghosts we would see a lot more space-ghosts in SCIFI.
If there's any hint of pulp you can bet your ass it'll have psychics. Anywhere from Vulcan mindmelds to Barsoomian thought locks.
>>47499050
Nobody's coming to take away your Bladerunner, man. It's not a story about Roy being an orc used as slave labour, etc. But that doesn't mean you can have stories where it is the case. Stories where you can explore the relationship of magic and tech.
>>47499244
No different from FTL and laserguns with sub-light speed projectiles that behave like bullets.
>>47498530
Well, I like the idea of just doing it as magic, though some consider that term undignified or unscientific and use a bunch of technobabble to disguise what's really going on. You might not get your traditional allotment of fantasy races under the same exact names, but did anyone really think convergent evolution was a good explanation for why there are so many aliens that look like variations of humans?
Of course, the official story would still be your typical sci-fi kind of thing. The truth isn't generally known by the uninitiated.
>>47499329
He isn't saying that you can't have that, you autist.
>>47498198
Meh. I like it in Star Wars because there's a whole psuedo-Asian mythology and philosophy that keeps it interesting, but in most settings I feel like psychics are just kind of boring. It has to add something to the setting beyond simply increasing the power level is what I'm saying - it works in XCom because humans can't do it and it makes the aliens scarier and battles more tense, it sucks in Mass Effect because biotics are just kind of a thing that exists and every single one of them seems to have some variation of the same tired "military experiments" backstory.
>>47499501
You're right. Sorry. I guess the message was lost in all that bitching and "nuh, don't touch muh khyber bank!"
>>47498994
That was pretty funny actually.
>>47499578
I'm glad someone got the joke.
>>47499563
Just saying what I don't like and why I don't like it bro. Only one getting mad is you.
>>47499641
Only mad I got is reflection of your projection.
>>47498198
It's good when done well, and bad when done poorly.
>>47499738
>I like things when they're good but not when they're bad.
>>47499767
Is there actually something that is bad when it's done well and good when it's done poorly?
>>47499787
>bad when it's done well
This can only really work if someone outright dislikes something on principal even if it's mechanically sound. Like, some people will tell you Titanic is a terrible movie. Even though on a technical and writing standpoint, it is incredibly well-done. And the only reason they say it's bad is because they don't like romances. Basically a disingenuous way of saying "X doesn't appeal to me"
>good when it's done poorly
Those old Asylum made-for-tv SyFy channel movies were like this. They're all terrible but they were made by people who thought they were doing something serious, which is where the charm comes from. Then they started making them shitty on purpose, and they stopped being fun.
>>47499787
>bad when it's done well
Intentional antagonism, ie being That Guy
>good when it's done poorly
ZUN art
>>47499846
Dunno what you're talking about. That little guy is adorable.
>>47499511
>it sucks in Mass Effect because biotics are just kind of a thing that exists and every single one of them seems to have some variation of the same tired "military experiments" backstory.
Did you actually pay attention to mass effect? Biotic comes with with Element Zero being fused with one's nervous system. On Earth it was actually industrial accident. For Asari it just natual.
I mean, explaination is kinda wonky, compared to everything else that is going on, but it actually runs on the same principles.
![ekD2h[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/ii6KAtw.png "ekD2h[1].png")
>>47499886
I see you're not familiar with ZUN's art.
>>47498941
While I do not view psychic stuff in sci-fi very highly, it is equally difficult (and retarded) to try and find a good, detailed explanation for just about anything else in most sci-fi
>>47499050
Shadowrun is an attempt to blend heist movies and dungeon-crawls. OD&D gave XP based on gold hauled out of the dungeon, which meant that dungeon-delving incentivized heist-style antics; Shadowrun makes the link explicit and adds a good deal of cyberpunk window-dressing.
>>47499916
Way I see it you shouldn't try explaining things in science fiction unless you actually know what you're talking about. Most things like faster than light and anti-gravity are accepted tropes which don't need a detailed justification for existing.
You can't claim your setting solves the FTL problem if you just throw around terms like "vector fields" and "dark energy". Your setting/story won't suffer for just saying "yeah there's FTL" unless you're a bad writer.
Psychic power is something extra to add to the person. Science fiction is usually about tools and sometimes writers want to add some built-in natural abilities.
It's not very scientific, but it allows to spice up the setting without going all magic. And there's usually no point in going all magic.
>>47498530
Does it really count as magic though?
Yes I know they are both basically 'make things happen with your mind' but there is a big schism between psychic powers and do anything Wizard magic.
Typically Psychic powers cannot be learned like magic, and even if they can it's more based on direct abilities and not school, elememts, or arcane symbolism. Psychics can move matter and create fire with their powers, but Wizards can typically do the same thing with greater flexibility and power. Psychic power can also be something that is straining to the body/mind, so it is something with an actual cost beyond spell points or slots.
I mean there us enough distinction that fantasy occasionally features both psyionics and magic, so a Sci-Fi setting with psychic powers can be said to just 'be magic shoehorned in'.
>>47499936
See I still don't see why the fantasy elements are necessary for that though. I can understand why people like the idea of playing an orc with robotic limbs driving a motorcycle through a cyberpunk city, but that's not for me. I feel there's plenty of interesting stuff science fiction has to offer without throwing the specific themes and tropes unique to fantasy into the mix.
The elves and magic and dragons just distract from the stuff I really like, which is the "science" part of science fiction.
>>47498530
I feel that psychics work better if you're going kinda retro-ish with your sci-fi. It's about the only kinda "magic" that should be in a sword & planet setting and works well in more space opera type games if you keep it in small doses.
I view it as something that works better in certain genres of sci fi ad is generally a better fit for science fantasy than straight up fantasy imo. It's just something, it isn't like robots where it can work in almost any sci fi setting; it only works in very specific types of sci fi.
It'd work well in certain kinds of post apocalyptic and x-files type stuff too I think.
>>47498198
For the most part, no. It's such an out-of-nowhere asspull 90% of the time.
>>47500026
>It'd work well in certain kinds of post apocalyptic and x-files type stuff too I think.
In an X-Files game it would be more of an oddity no one quite understands. Like, either only NPCs have it and it's something which warrants investigation, or if a player has it it's something they don't really understand and just kind of happens.
>>47498198
If there are psychic abilities in a sci-fi setting, they are either not psychic abilities (but instead some sort of technology), or it is not sci-fi but instead fantasy (magic exists.)
If the only kind of magic that exists is psychic abilities and other wishy-washy pseudoscience magic, then I hate it.
Yes, Star Trek TNG is fantasy. Fight me.
>>47500102
>A race of omnipoten god-beings
>space orcs who worship war gods
>zero real world constraints like relativity or aerodynamics
>teleporters
Sounds like fantasy to me. Won't fight you on that.
>>47499369
There's a gap of believability.
I wouldn't believe a sci-fi story where they treated illnesses caused by bad air or miasma, based on the theory of the humours, or where gravity was described in terms of aristotle's teleologic ideas, and where the sun orbits the earth, or where the theory of plate tectonics was assumed to be obviously wrong.
>>47500174
That's your personal hangup. Human brain is still a mystery, we can insert stuff into it better then into astronomy.
>>47500102
>it's not scifi but fantasy
>can't be both
you know, back in the day fantasy and sci-fi books were considered to be part of the same genre.
>>47500200
The human brain isn't in any particular way a mystery. It's a very complicated thing that does a lot of things, but all the basic and general functions of the various parts of the brain are very well understood.
ESP and such is exactly as magical as wizards throwing fireballs or fairies that live in hedges; there is no reason or cause to believe it is a real phenomenon.
It is completely made up, and it's not even that unclear, from a historical perspective, who made it up.
>>47500361
Back in the day, "terrific" used to mean something was terrifying.
>>47500400
>ESP and such is exactly as magical as wizards throwing fireballs or fairies that live in hedges; there is no reason or cause to believe it is a real phenomenon.
And aproximately as magical as FTL travel or aliens visiting Earth, but it doesn't stop you from enjoying fiction.
>>47500102
Your definitions are simply wrong.
Science fiction does not mean zero supernatural events can occur, it just means that it works on some scientific principle not yet understood or basically has any explanation other than souls or magic or Gods.
Sci-Fi is not fantasy, they are separate but distinct things. Star Trek is not fantasy as it functions on some kind of non magical rules, soft as they are. Basically it's not fantasy because they say it isnt.
Le hard Sci fi is the only REAL science fiction muh star wars is fantasy fags can GTFO
Welp. I'm not sleeping for two days now.
>>47500949
wut
I really like the psychic powers presented in Push.
While somewhat vague and personalized, each of them has great practicality while also being specific in character. The psychic scream one is kind of lame but other than that each one of these characters could be a sort of modern or sci-fi Wizard. Would also help cut down on magic user/psychic users being overpowered if they were utterly focused like that.
>>47498198
Nope, it's utter bullshit. I didn't buy Underrail due to it, and a lot of other games, when I read 'psychic' is a turn off. Bionics in ME counts as well.
>>47500174
>There's a gap of believability.
Only if you throw all understanding of modern physics into the trash.
>>47502209
Man, what games DO you play?
>>47498198
Esper abilities are to sci-if as magic is to fantasy
>>47498198
Psychic powers, actual Space Magic and Advanced Science
I tend to run a fairly gonzo/stew pot setting.
it depends, in 40K where it's basically fantasy with sci-fi veneer or blade and planet stuff then fuck yes. If I'm going for a more grounded game then I say absolutely fucking not even if it can be an option with the ruleset. This is partly so a party can't just 'magic' their way out of a situation though.
