How rare would it be for an entire star of mechwarriors to be taken as bondsmen as a group? Would the capturing clan spread them out or keep them together, assuming they reinstated them as warriors?

>>47495429
Incredibly uncommon, unless it's a situation like the Harvest Trials of the 3060s, where the Invaders were trialling for whole units to be added to their toumans, and even then, the trialled for units weren't really made bondsmen. The Star would have to be exceptional for it to happen otherwise.
>Would the capturing clan spread them out or keep them together, assuming they reinstated them as warriors?
Likely split up, if it was separate Bondsmasters. But it's a situation I honestly can't recall ever happening, so who knows.

>>47495505
OK, thanks. I've got a couple more clan-related questions if you don't mind:
>1
The clans brought about 100 mackies with them when they left. Did any of them ever turn up? Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit?
>2
What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit?
>3
Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs?
Thanks a bunch. I've been playing for a while but I'm just now getting into the clan side of the game

We need a Mackie IIC

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>>47495952
>Did any of them ever turn up?
Yes, though it was oddly a Primitive variant. Brandon Howell forces Mechwarrior Horse of the Jade Falcons to run a gauntlet of Jaguar mechs on Huntress in a Mackie. Other than that, I can't think of any other appearances.

>Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit?
Very much so. If the Mackies that survived were split evenly (which there's no evidence of, but for the sake of argument, let's run with it) between the 20 Clans, that would be about 5 Mackies per Clan. So they would be very, very rare. If the Mackies were a mix of Primitive and regular versions, they'd probably be mothballed anyway.

>What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit?
Royal variants, with a few Clan designs here and there. The Spirits are very resource strapped, so it'd be more likely to see this, depending on the Era. FM: Crusader Clans paints a different picture, so I screencapped their RATs. I'd probably go with that for the early 60s, and edge to more IS/Royal tech as the decade goes on.

>Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs?
Maybe as a field refit there were some (C) refits, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Mostly mechs. The Royal vehicles are mostly decent on their own.

>>47496095
I've got one, though the Mackie doesn't really gain much by going to Clan tech.

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>>47496313
So here's the Mackie IIC. As I said, it doesn't really gain much, and has a hefty BV. But it's a bitch to actually kill, so there's that.

>>47495952
>>47496313
There's a Clan retrofit of the Maxim but I'm not certain if that's pre- or post-Revival.

>>47496420
Would make a nice addition to my reserve cluster's command star.

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>>47495952
>>1
>The clans brought about 100 mackies with them when they left. Did any of them ever turn up? Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit?
>turn up
Yeah, there are a few in art and mentioned in the Klondike Era Report.
>Find one
Not impossible, but incredibly unlikely. That's the kind of thing Goliath Scorpions hunt.
>>2
>What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit?
Highlander IICs would be popular with Star Captains and Colonels (it's the personal 'Mech of their founding Khan), as well as tough "zombie" designs, both IICs and Star League. They like ERLLs and LRMs-15 in general, but they aren't obsessed with them. Keep in mind that the Spirits are poor as shit and Trial for most of their gear from the Mandrills and Ravens, buy a bit from the Sharks, or salvage it from the Vipers and Adders. A lot of what's left is highly-varied.
One star might have a Golden Century design like the Corvus or Thresher rubbing shoulders with a vintage Black Knight, a Clint IIC, and a Great Wyrm.
The Spirits also believe that a warrior should have the machine best suited to his style, so they trial frequently amongst themselves: it's merely uncommon to see an Omni among their second-liners, and vice versa (rather than rare or even remarkable). That 'whatever works' attitude is one of their signatures. Also, they organize along extremely traditionalist lines, so mixed Stars basically don't exist.


>>3
>Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs?
None known, but it's possible that a clan like Hell's Horses might try. Those refits really all showed up before the modern understanding of the Clans was in place (well, helped cement it, anyway), and that was in the middle of one of the "vehicles don't exist" phases of BT's line development.

Welcome to best Clan, Sibkin.

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>>47496476
You're more likely to get a Blood Kite, in all honesty. As a bonus, have the Wars of Reaving RAT and modifiers.

>>47496638
Sorry, I'm a different anon. I'm not playing Blood Spirits.

>>47495318
Something that has always bothered me, the Phalanx "cockpit" is so bizarre. Is it supposed to be like the Zeus's cowl but upped to horse blinders?

>>47496313
>>47496589
Thanks guys.
So how would this be as a Blood Spirit Assault Star?
>Highlander IIC
>Nightstar
>Warhammer IIC
>Royal Stalker
>Emperor
Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right?

>>47497036
>Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right?
Not always. Generally a Star is rated by its top couple of members, and you'll often see a few Heavies or even a Medium in an Assault star unless it's dedicated artillery. Again, the Spirits are on the poorer end of the spectrum, so I'd add in a Heavy or two (the "no mixed Stars" thing earlier was about mixing in a Vehicle or Elemental Point into a line Star, not about mixing weight classes).

>>47497036

>Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right?

Not really. As players we tend to try and get similar speed for a Star so the unit doesn't get strung out on the table top but IC the Clans don't even give a shit about that. There are literally examples of a Stars ranging from 8/12/8 to 3/5 movement in the sourcebooks.

As noted above the Spirits were a poorer Clan and while it's not impossible for an all-Assault force to appear in their top units like the Blood Guard Keshik it's more likely they'd have some Heavies and even Mediums mixed in.

Also the Blood Kite is pretty much the Stalker IIC, and something the Spirits like to use as much as possible.

Maybe

-Blood Kite
-Highlander IIC
-Warhammer IIC/Black Knight
-Guillotine IIC
-Grizzly/Excalibur

Is battletech mostly played with period-piece units or is there room for Your Dudes?

>>47499196
I suspect that people mostly pick a theme and run with it with whatever they think fits. I tend to go with rough faction based forces but no specific unit represented for the most part.

>>47499196
It's more pick an era, then pick your dudes or set pieces. Some battles are more mapped than others, but there is plenty of room for your dudes. Most usually go for merc companies, but that's not the only option.

>>47496589
Is that a painting of Mount Rainier in the back?

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>>47500300
>Is that a painting of Mount Rainier in the back?
Yeah. I used it in my lightbox for a while, in memory of the Sainted Ross.

>>47499196
>Is battletech mostly played with period-piece units or is there room for Your Dudes?
Mostly, it's played with ad-hoc formations loosely based on a faction. Your Duders are usually the PCs in a running campaign. Period-piece units are basically restricted to historical refights or people who have a fondness for that particular force, though there is the occasional group that uses a historical unit as the framing device for a narrative campaign instead of a straight refight (which I actually enjoy, but I'm vastly in the miniority. Guess why I'm the GM most of the time..).

>>47500300
Yup. Mountain Fresh.

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Bum

I have a recon/skirmish lance with a Raven (lance leader), Firestarter, Javelin and Commando. What faction would I most correspond to?

>>47504515
The Raven is very CapCon, while the other 3 are FedCom. You could make a good argument for a Capellan March lance like that.

>>47504515
FedCom era FedSuns?

There was a blurb somewhere that stated the FedCom captured so many Ravens before the Clan Invasion that people thought the Raven was a FedCom mech.

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Designs done, now to clean it up and start on the orthographic turnaround.

>>47504982
>first the Fedrats steal Chesterton
>then our Ravens
REEEEE fedrats get off New Avalon, it's an ancestral Capellan world!

>>47505841
Sweet.

In terms of weight and common mechs, what would the "average" star look like among the four initial invading clans?

>>47505841

That Crusader makes me moist.

I look forward to seeing it completed.

>>47505841
See, I've never liked the crusader before this. But that? THAT I would pilot the shit out of.

>>47505841
oh shit that is really nice. Maybe get into contact with the btg/RO/ guys and do some commission work? Fits right in with the current aesthetics BT is going for.

>>47507791
I know right? Decided to throw the -3L into SSW and update it, its a useful mini-stalker that doesnt die because of CASEII.

Is there any reason why the Regulans are as violent and paranoid as they are?

Furthermore, why would the new Free World's League want to re-absorb Regulus and Andurien when both of them are trouble makers?

>>47508944
Writers wanted a new Taurian Concordat but couldn't think of a clever way to do it. Let's not forget the crop we have handling this stuff now, after all.

>>47508944

>Is there any reason why the Regulans are as violent and paranoid as they are?

WoB made a point of humiliating, war criming, and generally fucking them over.

>Furthermore, why would the new Free World's League want to re-absorb Regulus and Andurien when both of them are trouble makers?

Strong military, and better to have them nominally on your side than against you.

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So, I recently learned that they actually have anti-missile systems again, as of 3045. Does anyone use 'em?

>>47508944
It's not like Regulus hasn't had its problems with the League government in the past but gotten over it. Their separation is due to opposition to Thomas Halas and the ambitions of some of the Cameron-Jones clan, not the idea of the League idea.

Andurien is something of a victim of porchbux.

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>>47509043
>Strong military, and better to have them nominally on your side than against you.
Regulan Hussars stronk.

>>47509060

Yes.

They're a shit ton more effective in space games than on the ground though. You can make a decent argument that an ECM suite or, if armour isn't maxed then more of that, actually provides superior protection in normal BT.

>>47509041

>Writers wanted a new Taurian Concordat but couldn't think of a clever way to do it.

I thought the Marian Hegemony was the Concordat's replacement in terms of military prowess?

>>47509203
Oh maybe. I meant being nuke-happy and paranoid.

What was the Lyran plan for their Dark Age invasion of the Free World's League?

Were they going to stop at the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth?

Or were the Oriente, Regulus and (possibly) Andurien next?

>>47509545
Planning isn't the LCAF's strength. I think they were just winging it to see how many worlds they could get while trying to bleed the Wolves white.

>>47509150
>They're a shit ton more effective in space games than on the ground though.

Are missiles more prevalent in space combat?

Also, do PPC beams travel at relativistic speeds? I'd assume so, but the fact that they have recoil would indicate a fairly high momentum change, which suggests more stuff moving at a lower speed.

>>47509236
>paranoid

I think it's been clear for a long time that this is not unreasonable in this setting.

>>47509643
Different anon but I could swear NEA or one of our other aerotech experts pretty much labeled missiles in space as being shit weapons.

NEA if you're here please acknowledge receipt of message and clarify on warship weapons.

>>47509643

AMS batteries in space can shoot down a lot more missiles than on the ground, including destroying entire LRM-20 barrages.

>>47509675

WarShip article guy here.

A modicum of AMS in space makes it really difficult to use capital missiles effectively. Nukes are potential one-hit killers and it's trivially easy to deal with them if you have AMS.

If you have no AMS, sucks to be you. Enjoy your 1,000 points of capital damage.

>>47509675
>missiles in space as being shit weapons.

They would be, unless everything else was worse. But this is space; there are no good options.

The only weapons that are unarguably bullshit are space fighters. As a rule of thumb, anything that could be done with a space fighter could be done better and cheaper by missiles.

The core problem is that a missile needs reaction mass to move around, just like your spacecraft. This means it runs into the same problem as every other rocket we've ever launched; it needs to burn propellant to move propellant.

Granted, the fact that it doesn't need to make a return trip cuts it's delta-v required at least in half. The fact that it only needs to do one thing cuts down the mass you need, which also helps.

The problem, then, is that most of the schemes for better specific impulse are very capital-intensive. A Nuclear Thermal Rocket is going to do better than just about any chemical rocket. If nothing else because it has 2 amu H2 exhaust rather than 18 amu H2O exhaust.

But that NTR is going to require you to have a nuclear reactor - these are generally not something that can be considered expendable. For... a lot of reasons, actually.

The better propulsion systems make this problem even worse. Orion is the best propulsion setup we know for sure we could actually build, and is never going to be useful for anything short of an interplanetary missile.

>>47510002

I'm gonna assume you're trying to discuss this from a scientific viewpoint because the only thing you've said with any relation to AeroTech rules is about fighters, calling them unarguably bullshit.

Which they are, but not the way you're thinking. Fighters are, ton for ton, the most dangerous combatants in space.

There are literally multi-thousand ton WarShips than can be killed in a matter of turns by less than 600 tons worth of fighters.

>>47510002
We're talking BT man.

Hope everyone is having a good Memorial Day weekend.

Since the thread is reasonably slow, figure I'll ask for recommendations on a variant I'm working on. It's a rework of the Cauldron-Born Prime. I dropped the LB-5X and its ammo, using that space to max the armor and add two ER medium lasers. Then I swapped out the LRM 10 for an LRM 20 with two tons of ammo.

I'm balanced on heat sinks and still have two tons of space left. What should I throw on?

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>>47510087
>There are literally multi-thousand ton WarShips than can be killed in a matter of turns by less than 600 tons worth of fighters.

What. How.

>>47510568

Well throwing nukes around that have been launched from fighters is apparently a thing.

>>47510598

Oh, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, are these nukes contact-detonation or space-burst?

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hey, so i played BT for the first time in years. i got some friends that want to run a campaign style story.
I forgot how good this game is.
god damn. If we were, say, to start off building our forces, 1 or 2 mechs at most to start with, whats a good amount of starting funds? Cheers fellow mechfriends

>>47510087
>>47510598

If I could chime in; I understand what a KF Drive does pretty well, but I'm still vague on sublight drive propulsion in BattleTech.

I think they call them Transit Drives?

>>47510568
A single ton of Cessna and warhead can take out a hundred thousand tons of aircraft carrier in a single bang.

>>47510568

The Vincent has 16 rear armour and 40 SI. It can take 96 damage damage assuming crits don't kill it.

A squadron of Eisensturms can do 29 damage per turn.

Takes a 570-ton Squadron a bit over 3 turns to kill a 420 kT WarShip.

Whilst this is a bit of an extreme example you really can't arm WarShips enough to make them a real threat to massed ASFs.

>>47510598

Don't even need that, anon.

>>47510514

Welp, it's no longer an Omni or even a Cauldron-Born.

But I guess you could take the SRM-2 and replace it with a larger S-SRM. Maybe a 4 or 6 depending.

>>47510680

There's not a lot of detail on them. They're just REALLY efficient fusion drives. Accelerating at 1g for 24 hours uses up less than 40 tons of hydrogen fuel.

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>>47510667
the Introductory Set is the best deal you can find. 26 minis for 50$

>>47510727
>you really can't arm WarShips enough to make them a real threat to massed ASFs.

Then why do they exist?

>>47510727
>Welp, it's no longer an Omni or even a Cauldron-Born.
Do I violate an unwritten rule of Omnis/Cauldron-Born by having more than nine tons of armor?

>>47510743
>Accelerating at 1g

Is this... a 5,000 ton DropShip?

>>47510753
Sorry, i meant in universe terms. like, if we're building our forces in mektek or whatever. We've got an intro set, Im actually in the process of painting the models now.

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>>47510756
yes. you can't change the Omni's engine or total armor, among other things

>>47510647
>. Out of curiosity, are these nukes contact-detonation or space-burst?
Contact. Space-burst would be utterly stupid and pointless

>>47510805
well you can, it just counts as a total redesign and yeah, kinda makes it not really an omni. but custom is custom.

took your advice on the SRM and upgraded to a Streak SRM-4, then added a flamer for warcrimes.

>>47510755
Because nobody really thought about the space combat rules when they were writing them; in fluff, WarShips laugh in the face of massed fighters, but on the table, it's an utter massacre, and not for the fighters

>>47510756
One of the in-universe things about omnimechs is that their armor, engines, and some internal things, like endo-steel and ferro-fibrous crits are fixed. In occasion, even weapons and equipment like active probes are fixed. IIRC, the Avatar has two fixed medium lasers and the firestarter omni has two fixed flamers.

>>47511119
>like endo-steel

A pod-mounted skeleton. I see nothing wrong with this, so why isn't it a thing?

>>47511307
Why not make the entire mech a pod?

Is combat between the Regulans and Free World's forces featured heavily in "To Ride The Chimera"?

I'm curious to know how the Regulans conduct warfare given a lot of the units attributed to them in the 3145 FW Readout are melee oriented or built around having a "savage edge" in combat so to speak.

>>47511336

Well, maybe like one pod for each location. So you'd take a Core Pod, bolt on two Side Torso Pods, stick on a Hat Pot, then arm and leg it (with more pods).

Some of these Pods, of course, would be able to mount other pods.

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>>47511307
the structure is the only thing that no one should even discuss about being fixed in an Omni.

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>>47511395

What about the armor?

>>47510514
You don't have to max the Cauldron Born's armor. What it has is enough to get the job done if you use it right.

>>47511119
It's not like anyone plays Aerotech though.

You're more likely to find Star Fleet Battles players than AT players.

>>47511475
where my romulan bros at?

>>47511514
Gorn here, Romulans can go git rekt on my double bubble trouble huddle.

>>47510770

No, this is any Warship massing 250 kT or more. A Burn-Day represents running the engines at 1g for 24 hours and anything in the 250 kT-2.5 mT range uses 39.52 tons of fuel over that period.

>>47510853

My Cauldron-Born Prime refit has this:

1 ER PPC, 1 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Lasers, 1 LRM-20 with Artemis IV and 3 tons ammo, 1 Streak SRM-6 with 1 ton of ammo, and 5 DHS for a total of 18 (36).

You can get into some heat trouble at close range, but this is hardly unusual on Cauldron-Born configs any way. Long range is slightly increased, long-range damage is increased by up to 50% depending on your Cluster rolls, and endurance is increased though I seriously doubt the Jaguars would give a single fuck about that.

In close you drop the ER LL for a run at +1 heat and deliver more damage than the normal Prime could too.

>>47511456

I really love the Cauldron-Born, but the armour is the only problem I have with it. They skimped on the legs which only have 19 each.

It works fairly well against IS heavies due to its speed and firepower or Clan mediums thanks to the firepower but either can pull out a win if they have PPCs, GRs, or A/C-20s of their own due to the leg armour.

>>47511917
I ran a variant of the CB with 2 Gauss Rifles and 3 ER Medium Lasers. Basically a Devastator Jr. As should have been expected with a dualgauss boat it was surprisingly effective.

>>47511917
>leg armor
If you just Jag harder then the leg armor isn't a concern. Remember your sibko training.

>>47511994
I did a take on that too.
>one gauss rifle with two tons of ammo
>one ER ppc
>three ER med lasers
>two machine guns
>one flamer for OZ duty

Then added an ECM and three DHS. It was my character's custom ride during our old Bulldog campaign games.

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Did you side with the Wolves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YkfIJ8HUWs

or Falcons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_rSyRD8XM

>>47512697
gas the clans space war now

>>47512697
>the arcadey playstation version of mech2

>>47512833
>Usagianon
that's pretty kawaii

question:
BA can have infantry specializations, such as combat engineer or mountaineer?

I know it's unlikely to happen, but could a joint Lyran-Free Worlds offensive dislodge the Wolf Empire from their doorstep?

>>47513125
No, conventional infantry only.

To put it another way, being BA infantry is their specialization. And being BA can potentially render some specializations unnecessary anyway, for instance mountain troops are immune to thin atmosphere effects and can climb three levels per hex, BA are sealed and so ignore atmosphere entirely, and any BA with jump 3 can equal that climbing ability.

>>47513674
oh, I see. thanks!

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>>47512712

Which pre -CI tank is best at killing mechs?

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>>47514300
Best Toad BA suit comin' through, Elementals swerve.

>>47514581
The artillery Rommel: it can shell mechs without ever being seen.

>>47515110
NVM, I thought that tank was pre-Invasion. It isn't, so I'm revising my recommendation to the LRM Carrier: because enough missiles mean fuck you, mechs.

>>47514581
Shrek probably. If you mean something your average yahoo could get his hands on then maybe the manticore or the pegasus or the salad shooter.

>>47514581
In the right circumstances, missile carriers can murder a mech quick, but for more general field use, demolishers, schreks and brutuses are probably better at it

>>47513669

The Wolves have been bled white and are in no position to do anything. If the FWL got its shit together and didn't have to worry about anything else they could solo the Wolves.

I was just wondering what would the Dragoons have been like if the compromise had included a little bit of pan-Clan diversity.

Like, every Clan was represented with at least a few freebirths or trueborn.

Just in terms of how that might have impacted some of their adventures before Operation Revival, if at all. Goliath Scorpions wanting to dig everything up, Nova Cats having visions of Anton Marik's betrayal, Jaguars urging Jaime to GOON HARDER at the Combine during the 4th War, Snow Ravens REEEEEEEing that they left their warships in mothballs instead of bringing them, etc.

>>47515943
That would be much cooler than the canon dragoons. They might even be interesting enough to forgive them their golden boy status

Cranston Snord would be a Goliath Scorpion, for sure. The ice hellions would be pushing jamie wolf to recruit mercer ravinnion, because they consider him to be the only spheroid who gets it. The blood spirits might actually be mostly happy because there's actually cooperation between clans going on for once, and would probably have the least trouble adjusting to the downgraded machines since they're used to older SLDF models already. They'd also be looking for ways to ensure the burrocks assigned to the mission buy it, of course.
The fire mandrills would be interesting, depending on if all the personnel brought along were from the same kindraa or not

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>>47515376
>salad shooter.
Saladin's an SP gun, not a tonk.

>>47514581
Demolisher for sheer "lolnope", but you have to ambush with it. A mixed lance of Weapons Carriers is your best bet (LRMs to season and a couple SRMs to make them regret getting close), but a Manticore or Bulldog is the best all-rounder for 'Mech-hunting if you have to pick one and only one.

>>47515943
he mental image is funny it wouldn't have worked.

The Jags, Bears, and Falcons were seriously pissed with the Wolves of the time, so good luck getting them to do anything a Wolf told them to do. The Mandrills are a nightmare for anyone to deal with, to the point that almost nobody bothers taking them as bondsmen since they'll only listen to what their Kindraa says. Then you've got the myriad of other feuds going on.

The Dragoons, whichever Ckan you want them to come from, need to be only from one Clan if you don't want them to implode.

Either that or you substantially re-write the personalities and interactions of all the Clans.

>>47516816
>he mental image is funny it wouldn't have worked.

This fucking keyboard, I swear.

>While the mental image is funny...

anyone got a link for the newest AtB?

>>47516816
People would have said the same about the myriad groups lumped together for Task Force Serpent. Mandrills aside, humans can be surprising in their ability to cooperate or rise above stereotypes when given a common task.

>>47517195
And if it's mostly drawn from free births and failed warrior caste, they might behave a bit differently than their stereotypes.

>>47516547
Salad shooter is a hover tank. Still a tank.

>>47517195

Serpent would have fallen apart if Morgan and Ariana weren't so respected by all the commands.

The Jaguars, Falcons, and Bears at the time *hated* the Wolves with a passion. Jaimie and Joshua don't command anything approaching the respect outside their Clan that Morgan and Ariana did.

I'm not so invested in this that I'm gonna get into a knock-down, drag-out fight over it though.

>>47511425

You can already mount additional armour, via Modular Armor.

1 ton, 1 crit for 10 additional points. Reduces your Walk, Cruise or Safe Thrust MP in atmospheric hexes by one as long as you have at least one functional mounted (recalculate Running, Flank or Maximum Thrust MP as usual). Also reduces the Jump MP by one under the same conditions. +1 to Piloting Skill rolls, +1 to Control Roll target numbers when in atmosphere. The crit location can be hit, resulting in all of that armour being destroyed.

Fluff data:

Tech base: all
TR: D
Availbility rating: X-X-F-E
Dates:
* 3070 - R&D start (ComStar)
* 3072 - Prototype stage (ComStar)
* 3073 - R&D start (Clan Wolf-in-Exile, parallel development)
* 3074 - Prototype stage (Clan Wolf-in-Exile)
* 3096 - Production stage (Republic of the Sphere)

>>47505841
Awesome. Do the Nova cat next!

>>47517948
>using modular armor
wow what a terrible idea

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Does anybody have high resolution versions of this image? I'm making some posters for myself and I'm missing a Battletech poster.

It's fine if it has a logo on it, but I would prefer one without.

>>47517370
That's cool. Just pointing out there were things like Jaguar wardens that were thrown to the wolves in canon. Those are the sort of warriors we might see certain Clans choosing to send as their contributions.

>>47521738

Such as? I know Rage went on about a number of Jag warriors that had to have been taken as abtakha by the Wolves years ago, but he had nothing to back it up...

>>47522053
Blurbs like the Hunchback IIC bit in TRO 3058.

>Five outspoken Warden MechWarriors were reassigned to a Cluster defending Clan Smoke Jaguar’s production facility on Circe and given Hunchback IICs as an indicator they were no longer welcome in the Clan.

>>47517342
A tank generally takes more than a glancing blow from a spork to wreck.

>>47522126

OK.

I thought you meant specific and important characters.

To hear Rage talk about it, 90% of the important characters in other Clans were actually Jags.

Well, maybe not quite that many, but he had a major hard on for insisting a number of Star Colonels and Galaxy Commanders were Jaguars.

>>47522187
Sorry, I don't understand the basis of that argument. Is Rage someone from the OF?

>>47522217

Yes.

Very big on the Jaguars being the best Clan ever, having 90+ Clusters and 40+ WarShips, etc.

Like the Jag version of Medron Pryde, only more so.

I get what you're saying now and I was genuinely curious. I just wasn't sure if you meant there were concrete examples of the Jaguars trying to get rid of Wardens by shuffling them off in large numbers to other Clans that way or what.

Not trying to start shit, it just sounded a bit weird. I've had the Revised and Upgraded versions of TRs for a while now but never bothered to read them because the stats didn't change. I'll have to get around to them some time I guess.

>>47522330
I gotcha. I remember Rage now, he had that post where he cited every Jaguar unit at once as if they had all existed simultaneously.

Clan-wise I'm a bit of a Jaguar fan (best Clan fluff-wise, but then I like playing the villains) but he goes off the deep end. Even warship-wise they only had something like 25 ships around Revival.

My example was just what I could think of for the proposed alternate Dragoon Compromise. *If* such a compromise arose and *if* all Clans were required to contribute some warriors, I'd see the Falcons sending freebirths, the Jaguars sending Wardens, etc.

He claimed most senior officers in other Clans were Jaguars? They seem like they'd be a headstrong bunch to want to take as abtakha.

>>47522330
Jags are my fav clan
but I like them for being sperglords with a perverse lust for brawling and poor decision making

>>47522410

Yeah, he was arguing a lot of officers with Bloodnames mostly associated with the Jaguars were all abtakha because reasons.

BTW I don't think the Jags had that many ships- not that many were mentioned in the Twilight of the Clans series, I think just a dozen or thereabouts. I think they've back-filled that as the Mongoose Absorbtion being pretty costly on that front with their McKenna biting it in action.

Jag on.

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>>47522451
Their Clan wall of steel with head-on attacks strategy reminds me of my favorite Inner Sphere faction.

>tfw Hogarth will never be taken bondsman by the Jaguars and rise to become their khan

>>47522473
I didn't think they had that many cross-bloodnames. Like Howell and Corbett are the post prominent that stand out but that's it really.

Warship-wise, I feel you on the mentions but an actual count across the sourcebooks and novels of the Revival to Bulldog era shows 18 named warships and 7 unnamed but unique warships (for example the Sovetskii Soyuz and two Vincents guarding Huntress).

>>47522499
*not Corbett, Beckett. My bad.

>russia 3d printerman has jacked up prices
I knew I should've gotten in sooner than later

>>47523890
>they went up from 9 dollaroos to 10 dollaroos

ruh roh!

>>47524225
Mounts up for those of us who are operating on a tight budget, though at least it is still what I'd call reasonable.

Though I think at this point I should probably stop acquiring mechs and build more terrain/play more games. As I am definitely not sitting and checking the tracking update on a package of mechs right now instead of doing anything useful.

>>47522330
>Like the Jag version of Medron Pryde, only more so.
You know, I just got back from a visit to the OF, and I'm thinking that we should really switch to Korzon77 as our go-to mega-taurianfag. I've seen threads with fucking medron pryde telling him to slow his roll with the taurianfagging, for fuck's sakes

>>47525188
Hit us with a link bro.

>>47525262
On my phone, don't have a link handy. Just scroll through the taurian-related threads on the first two pages of the periphery subforum, it should be there

>>47523890
Ah, glad it wasn't just me.
Ah well, I'll lose a mech on this order.

Disregarding the half-assed official extinction dates, which bits of SL tech do you think would be the first to go? The last?

What happens to the Mechs and Battle Armor of various figures in Battletech's storyline after they've been killed?

I mean things like Kerensky's Orion, Lincoln Oasis's Elemental Armor or Victor's Daishi and units like that.

Are they kept as souvenirs, put in museums or something else?

>>47526847
Endo Steel production requires some pretty conspicuous and innately vulnerable orbital facilities. So I'm betting that goes pretty early on.

>>47527055
From what I remember, Kerensky's Orion was at the very least found and used by Teddy K for some time.

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>>47527055
>What happens to the Mechs and Battle Armor of various figures in Battletech's storyline after they've been killed?
Soemtimes they get left where the hero fell as a memorial (Nasty Kay's Daishi, for example), sometimes they're lost in the core breach.

Off the top of my head -
First BattleMech (the original Mackie) was upgraded to the -5S spec at some point, then restored during the 3SW and killed by the Black Widows. The husk was later recovered by the Snords, but nobody knows whether it's still in the museum or got swiped/destroyed with the other exhibits.

Nicky K's personal 'Mech: likely lost when the Wolves bombarded the Kerensky bloodchapel from orbit.

Yen-Lo-Wang: Upgraded repeatedly, still in use as of the Dark Age as a family heirloom

Legend Killer: Can't remember, unfortunately. Someone else might.

Several other notables are in museums or memorials - or still in the middle of radioactive Herbscapes.

>>47526847
FF would be the first to go or near to it. Endo would go soon after. After that, ammo-dependant weapons; Ultra-5s first, unreliable hunks of shit that they are, with art-IV capable missiles around the same time, then arrow IV and streaks. I can't remember if LBX-10 slugs are interchangeable with regular AC/10 ammo. If so, they'd last a long time. If not, they'd probably go around the same time as streaks. Electronics would go next. ERLLs and PPCs would be some of the last to go. Gauss rifles would last a surprisingly long time, since their ammo would still be simple to produce, unlike the other high-tech projectile throwers. XLFEs would also last remarkably long, since they would tend to be disabled before sustaining irreparable damage, meaning they'd survive many more fights than the average mech. In my opinion, though, the last two items standing would be DHS (not often fully destroyed, ones in an engine would last as long as the engine). In fact I could see people voluntarily mounting slightly oversize salvaged engines with DHS in their mechs, just to get the advantage of the extra heat dissipation, even if the engine weighs a bit extra. CASE would be my choice for absolute last piece of star league gear standing, since it's only destroyed when the chassis is destroyed entirely, needs no maintenance and dramatically increases the survivability of mechs equipped with it. I could even see a few CASE-equipped mechs surviving into the 3000s, maybe even long enough to see CASE reenter service

>>47527562
>First BattleMech (the original Mackie) was upgraded to the -5S spec at some point, then restored during the 3SW and killed by the Black Widows. The husk was later recovered by the Snords, but nobody knows whether it's still in the museum or got swiped/destroyed with the other exhibits.
Were those ever actually confirmed to be THE original first two mackies, or just references to the Mackie IN GENERAL as the first mech? It always seemed a bit unclear

>>47527613
That all seems logical.

>>47510753

>26 minis with the quality of dollar store army men for $50

What a steal!

>>47527562

Now I want to know what happened to Jamie Wolf's Archer or Wayne Waco's Battle Master.

And Sun-Tzu's golden Emperor as well.

One of the more interesting stories I've heard for that type of thing was that Takashi supposedly had scrap from one of his early mechs turned into a drinking urn or chalice (I remember it being mentioned in Lost Destiny).

>>47528913
>Jamie Wolf's Archer or Wayne Waco's Battle Master.
well, they fought to mutual destruction, so both mechs would have been wrecked. probably were then blown to atoms when the WoB started it's orbital bombardment

How is it that the Wolf's Dragoons have Elementals exactly?

>>47530151
Goon magic.

>>47530243

I thought no Elementals were present among them when they arrived in the Sphere?

>>47530278
I think they magicked them up on Outreach after the 4th succession war. Phelan Kell/Wolf/Ward/Kell was born in an iron womb iirc

>>47530309
Phelan getting the Kell name back as a special snowflake reward bloodname was one of the dumbest parts of his arc.

New to the game and just picked up the beginners introduction box. Has a couple dozen plastic minis and two special ones. I've been reading the fluff and decided to start with the Lyran faction.

What is the Lyran players starting kit?

>>47530400
A gauss rifle and a heavy woods hex


Sorry, I couldn't resist. I promise I'll answer you seriously if nobody does in the next few minutes

>>47530400
Depends on rules level you want to play with (Different eras have different tech with different complexity levels), whether you want mixed groups or just mechs, and how close to canon you want to hedge it (Which is the difference between having a few non-Lyran things mixed in or having whatever random shit you happen to want in Lyran colors).
Factions aren't really the dividing line even in scenario play, since battlefield scavenging is super common.

>>47530151
They had some Iron Wombs cached with the rest of their gear, dug them out and grew some elementals with the rest of their half-assed trueborns

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>>47530400
Here's a couple ways to do it.

>>47530824
Awesome is (m) not (M) ? I've always known the awesome as the #1 marik assault.

>>47530488
>>47530498
>>47530824
Do you have fluffy pics from the game universe you could share that involve the Lyrans?

>>47530681

>rest of their half-assed trueborns

I thought they're trueborns were top-notch?

>>47531309
It's that the Awesome IS the #1 marik assault, it's just that other factions ALSO have a reasonable number of Awesomes

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>>47531309
>I've always known the awesome as the #1 marik assault.
They had the only working factory, but (much like your mother) >everyone< had some and everyone loved them. Not quite as widespread as the Stalker, but still one of the most common Assaults out there.

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>>47531482
>Do you have fluffy pics from the game universe you could share that involve the Lyrans?
Certainly.

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>>47531897
Try'n'a ketch me ridin' deutschy.

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>>47531913

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>>47531949

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>>47531969

Whatever happened to that Capellan AI known as "The Broken"?

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>>47531987

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>>47532025

>>47530151

They captured a bunch at Luthien apparently. They were causing trouble for them in the novel about the Dragoons civil war, Wolf Pack I think it's called.

They seem to have Iron Wombs as well since that's heavily implied to be where Phelan came from- Jaimie Wolf was inviting Salome and Morgan to Outreach to help them have a kid at the end of the Warrior trilogy.

Finally you don't need to be Elemental size or strength to use Elemental armour any more. Peter Dinklage could wear it and use it to full capacity now.

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>>47531482

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>>47532379

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>>47532428

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>>47532441

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>>47532456

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>>47532471

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>>47532496

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>>47532512

>>47532236

>Finally you don't need to be Elemental size or strength to use Elemental armour any more

You didn't need it originally did you?

I remember the first use of the armor in Trials by Clan Wolf was done so with non-Elementals wasn't it?

>>47532661
>You didn't need it originally did you?
Nope, never really did. Elementals were just made that big for unarmored use.
As a side note, I've always thought that the whole "elementals are 8.5-9.5ft tall" thing is more than a little silly. I personally like to think of them as being 7ft4 or so on average, with 6ft7 being manlet status, and eight feet being about the top end.
But that's just me

>>47532888
I was always under the impression that Elementals were big so that they could still be marginally mobile if their suits lose power for whatever reason.

I mean, sure anyone can pilot that suit when it's in perfect working order, but without power, it takes a hulking brute to even take ponderous actions in it.

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What is the best and easier tutorial for battletech

All these PDF's are just spitting nonsense at me that I feel could be easily explained in a better manner

>>47533040
There's one Elemental in the books that's so big that when an emergency hits he moves his unpowered armor as if were nothing.

>>47533040
>I was always under the impression that Elementals were big so that they could still be marginally mobile if their suits lose power for whatever reason.
Elementals predate the armor by some time, so it's just a useful coincidence.
It was a good reason to use them over say the mechwarrior phenotype, for sure, though

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Do any of you guys run 3rd party minis for vehicles? I found these 1/285 T-55s and they look like they could make good Po tanks

>>47531999
Well, initially it never existed. Then CGL decided to troll us by declaring a holiday product as canon, but like everything that would radically change BT (except the Clans), it disappeared in a cloud of forgotten plot.

>>47533519

Anyone who loves vehicles probably has some GHQ minis in their collection. I know I do. I've got around five companies worth of various sorts

>>47533084
BattleTech Master Rules. It's the previous edition rulebook, from the days before CGL decided that bad fanfic and mini photos needed as much pagecount in the rulebooks as actual rules.

>>47534061
Not to mention rewritings anything rules-wise to use twice as many words to make half as much sense

>>47534500
Well, that goes without saying. Sometimes I feel like finding their editor and asking him, "So, at what age did you start taking your English as a second language courses?"

Oh, who am I kidding. CGL doesn't have an editor.

I've recently picked up the LoT books, and man, I'm actually starting to respect Stefan Amaris. I mean, the man brought all of known space to it's knees for nothing more than an insane dream, a centuries-old vendetta. and yet, he still burned down the most powerful nation in human history, pulled off the grandest scheme to ever exist and went hard to the death, which is a hell of a lot more than can be said for any IS battletech ruler

>>47534061
Pics of miniatures not only sell miniatures, but help get people into the system. So many people equate production quality of a rulebook with a good game it's kinda silly, as I've seen plenty of far worse messes of high-production-value rulebooks than Total Warfare. Hell, it's how Osprey's line of wargames (published, not written in-house) has managed to do so well despite a surprisingly large chunk of the systems being garbage and almost every other one having some pretty serious flaws.

So if the Total Warfare rulebook still looked like the master rules, despite being better organised and all that, it would have brought in way fewer people.

And yes that annoys me; I've seen word document, default font, no pictures rules sets that are amazing but people won't try them because they look (even if organised expertly) bad to the majority for that lack of miniatures porn and fluff.

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>>47534932
>man, I'm actually starting to respect Stefan Amaris
which the man is worthy of, and nothing less
>I mean, the man brought all of known space to it's knees for nothing more than an insane dream, a centuries-old vendetta. and yet, he still burned down the most powerful nation in human history, pulled off the grandest scheme to ever exist and went hard to the death, which is a hell of a lot more than can be said for any IS battletech ruler
non, je ne regrette rien
gas the SLDF, independence war now

>>47532661

>You didn't need it originally did you?

Fluff-wise and rules-wise, yes. You did.

Kai Allard-Liao was trained as much as possible, had a heavily modified suit, and several functions including jumping were disabled because he physically couldn't handle it.

Rules-wise, in MW 2nd Ed/3rd Ed/CBT RPG you had to have very high physical stats or you'd injure yourself when trying to operate any kind of BA. Clan suits required 1 point higher in both Body and Strength to safely operate, and you needed at least 5 in each IIRC to avoid damage that could literally rip you in half.

But then Herb and Kit decided it was dumb that PA (L)/Exo-Skeletons required that level of physicality to operate, and rather than simply say "PA(L) suits and Exo-Skeletons are not subject to minimum stat requirements and won't injure the operator" they got rid of attribute requirements entirely.

>I remember the first use of the armor in Trials by Clan Wolf was done so with non-Elementals wasn't it?

The suits and Phenotype developed together over almost 200 years. The proto-Elemental Phenotype was a Hell's Horses infantry line bred for size and strength, proto-Elemental BA was probably similar to IS Standard at first. Neither of them debuted in the form we're familiar with from the 3050s.

>>47535539
>But then Herb and Kit decided it was dumb that PA (L)/Exo-Skeletons required that level of physicality to operate
I mean, the idea that power armor in general requires a eight foot six gigga nigga to operate at all is kinda retarded. frankly, non-elemental BA not being designed for 'general' audiences', so to speak, is absurd at best, and elementals being designed for such being for a reason other than anything but clan sillyness is also more than a bit asinine

>>47535609

The original fluff goes on about how physically demanding the suits are so they have to find Olympic-type athletes to operate them. The rules backed that up.

There's enough other things in BT that troll my suspension of disbelief harder, like magical exploding fusion engines or space ship engines venting enough energy to slag things kilometres behind them and which might as well be operated by gnomes running in hamster wheels in a pocket dimension for all the scientific accuracy those reflect.

Civilian stuff and suits like the Nighthawk/Tornado/Cyclone not being as draining I'm fine with. Or even just give them attribute requirements of 3 (human average) or 2 (slightly weedy and not very strong), ramping up through the BA weight classes with another point on top of that for the Clan gear so Golem suits require 7s or 8s to operate safely.

I just wish they would have either never had stat requirements or left them as they were.

Then again, AToW does a lot of dumb shit, on top of just being needlessly complex and amazingly badly laid-out.

>>47535609
Not that anon. but it's one thing to say you don't have to be Charles Atlas to roll around in a BA. It's quite another to say you can be a weedy little fuck like Victor and still be able to use Battle Armor like an Elemental. As it was, the IS BA like the Gray Death suits were already usable by a pretty wide variety of types. In Tactics of Duty, Davis McCall is 56 years old, with a mechanical hand and whatever other war wounds he has, and he's just as capable of doing okay as Alex Carlyle is in the GD Scout Suit.

>>47528913
>And Sun-Tzu's golden Emperor as well.

It ascended to the heavens along with its master, of course.

>>47535679
>The original fluff goes on about how physically demanding the suits are so they have to find Olympic-type athletes to operate them.
sure. I agree, real battle armor should be the domain of top-of-their game specops folks and the toughest of regular infantry. I just think that "within the regular human maximum of strength et al" is a better stop point than "literally larger than the largest human ever with the strength of louis cyr and a half".
>Civilian stuff and suits like the Nighthawk/Tornado/Cyclone not being as draining I'm fine with. Or even just give them attribute requirements of 3 (human average) or 2 (slightly weedy and not very strong), ramping up through the BA weight classes with another point on top of that for the Clan gear so Golem suits require 7s or 8s to operate safely.
sure. I'd make it so that IS heavy and assault suits aren't actually harder to operate than medium gear, on account of by that point it's far more on servoes and such (and considering that in some assaults, the pilot is literally operating it like a tiny mech, rather than like armor), but I agree with the notion of physical characteristic limits for BA, just not as insane as "elementals and strongest man in the world only"

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>>47531482
Standard kit now available for officers at the LCAF Quartermaster's Stores with the proper forms:

>Better field rations with special high-calorie menus available
>Cavalry whiskers
>Monocle
>Attractive lady

Please note that the use of personally modified and/or non-approved mess dress is frowned upon by Katrina Steiner.

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>>47534045
they're look good for their scale. I plan on picking up some buratinos for SRM/LRM carriers

>>47535679
Actually now that I'm trying to look for it, AToW doesn't actually list *any* minimums to use any sort of PA. Of course, it could be the generally shit way these books are laid out. But no, just references to armor conversion and how long it takes to remove a suit.

>>47535748
>with the strength of louis cyr and a half
you're a canadian, aren't you?

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>>47535805

Yeah, AToW is when they got rid of it because reasons, after several novels and like two decades of it being a thing.

Pic has the rules from MW3/CBTRPG. P. 141 in the latter.

>>47535456
>non, je ne regrette rien
Space FFL when?

>>47535748
One thing in ATOW is any hit that chips away armor injures the wearer.
So while you don't have to be tough just to use BA, someone who is will still be better off than someone who isn't.

>>47536703

Same in MW 2nd Ed/3rd Ed/CBTRPG.

BA is only "haha no" for X amount of damage in BT.

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>>47536970
>mfw AToWC's advanced BA rules with full record sheets and critical hits

I don't even play the RPG, but that shit makes me want to run a sort of neo Battletroops thing with them.

>>47537575

Bring Bearhunter Super-Heavy A/Cs.

They are insanely shit on the tabletop (literally the best to-hit modifier you can get on them, firing at a target in the same hex, is +3) but in the RPG they are full-on beastmode against BA.

An average roll if you hit- which isn't too hard in the RPG, as opposed to BT- will fucking shred anything up to a Kanazuchi. I doubt a Golem would be much better off but I haven't really looked at it that closely.

>>47535755
Damn, that does look nice. Are there other good options for BT? I think T-55s made decent Pos, for example.

>>47532562
The perspective on that makes it seem like the zeus is battle armour sized

>>47539743
Hey, they did that for the marauder, why not the zeus?

>>47539330
This might be a bit of an asspull, but:

>LTVP-5 for your generic IS box designs
>Cadillac Gage Commando or BRDM-2 for a generic Wheeled APC
>PACV for a generic IS hovercraft
>any NATO tracked IFV as a Scoprion light tank
>any T-80 derivative with ERA as the basis for a manticore
>Eurocopter for a Warrior

why are the majority of btech AFVs so ugly

>>47537636
I thought bearhunters were only +1 to hit penalty? The ranges of 0/1/2 is what makes them poor at hitting anything. BTW in TacOps errata a single hit from bearhunter inflicts 3d6 damage vs. single battle armor.

>>47540347

For infantry firing at a target in the same hex they treat it as being at range 1. For every other weapon the distinction doesn't matter, but the Bearhunter has 0/1/2 range which means the best it can ever get is Medium range with a +1 penalty on top.

TacOps makes them a lot more dangerous but good luck hitting.

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>>47540189
Yeah, just about the only armoured vehicle I liked was the Rommel/Patton, at least until the newer artwork started to appear. Speaking of new art, I think the Scorpion got a facelift, and the one following it is a Manticore.

>>47540040
Do I smell a battle armour minimech design challenge?

>>47540189
The clan afvs look like they should have been aborted

>>47539743
it also looks like the Hauptmann is smoking a cigar

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>>47541590
And that is why the Hauptmann is the greatest omni.

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>>47539743

Yeah they seem to have make that sizing error more than once in the art.

Case in point, whatever is going on in this image.

>>47541867
look at that Elemental in the back doing the cool pose

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What's your favorite Lyran regiment?

>>47535539

>Clan suits required 1 point higher in both Body and Strength to safely operate, and you needed at least 5 in each IIRC to avoid damage that could literally rip you in half.

I can see the Cartoon was not accurate there then.

>>47541987
the Cartoon was wrong in many aspects, I mean WHO WOULD DARE TO REFUSE A BATCHALL?

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>>47541975
The Eighth Lyran Regulars. Hunting pirates and partying like it's 2999? I'd be proud to serve in the regiment.

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>"You dare to refuse my danceoff?"

question to battle armour

Can someone explain to me how the Rottweiler is a sound design? While I can see enough space in the Fenrir I and II for a sitting position, I do not understand how the Rottweilers lying position would enhance battle time due to reduced fatigue

>>47540189
I'd have the T-55 be the Scorpion.
Also, Centauro or Stryker M1128 as Chevalier

What are the best post-4th Succession War Davion-designed mechs? Like between then and the civil war.

>>47542977
Are we counting revived SL-era designs or just pure originals?

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>>47542014

File: They now refuse OUR Batchall!.png (60 KB, 512x537) Image search: [Google]

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>>47542014

>WHO WOULD DARE TO REFUSE A BATCHALL?

Evidently Smoke Jaguar.

>>47542930

Why not the Scorpion 90mm for...you know...the Scorpion?

>>47542989
I was thinking originals but either works.

>>47540445
Damn. Didnt know it. A weapon for true elites.

>>47543398
>ISF interrogator constantly moving goalposts
>Kotare is vindicated as the second Star League is dead within a few years and Luthien is under siege
>ISF agent probably got purged by the wily Black Dragons
funny in hindsight

>>47543612
Well, if we're counting SL designs, the Devastator has everything else beat hollow, with the nightstar a close second.
Original designs are a bit harder. Lemme think some on that

Could the Tau Empire have defeated the Star League at its height?

>>47544040
Fuck off with the 40k shit

>>47544120
It's a /tg/ staple brah

>>47544273
Yeah, in 40k threads.
You faggots are as bad as furries for sticking your shit down everyone else's throats.
So again, fuck off

Why was the original Banshee so poorly armed?

Was it meant to be cheap and fielded en mass or did Defiance Industries intentionally give it little in the way of armament for some other reason?

>>47544040

Though I was introduced to 40k first, I can't help but ponder if the idea for the Tau Empire came from the Clans given they have a few of the same combat doctrines (cloning, a caste system, long ranged firepower and a preference for range over melee among other things) and the Clans predate the Tau.

>>47544421
Nah, I think I'll stay. Let me know when you have your own thread.

>>47544040
The Tau would probably have an advantage in speed. Maybe we should crunch the numbers but I don't think the BT jumpships tech would be able to compare in terms of range or recharge speed.

On the ground Crisis suits and pulse weaponry would outrange anything the SL-era mechs or conventionals have and would tear them apart.

>>47544544
The corruption in the military industrial complex man.

>>47544544
>Why was the original Banshee so poorly armed?
Because it was really fucking fast for a mech of it's size, necessitating a huge engine that left very little room for any weapons.
It was also a very early design, before mech designers really knew what they were doing

>>47544663
>before mech designers really knew what they were doing
Most of them still don't or they'd be minmaxing experts like us.

>>47544646

If that is the case, why didn't the Hegemony bother altering the design given it was them that would be using it?

>>47544544
Because you sacrifice weapons when you stick.a 380 SFE in something

>>47544719
Quartermasters being bribed, etc.

>>47544719
Because compared to other mechs of the time like the original Mackie and early Emperors, it actually wasn't a bad machine. Later on it was basically just put in reserve, because buying newer, better mechs was cheaper than doing the sort of rebuild, including engine replacement, that would be required to make the Banshee better

>>47544621
Whoa, which phase of the Tau Empire are you talking about? First or second sphere would get whipped like a red-headed step child.

Third and post third might have a chance, but they're still like an order of magnitude smaller when it comes to a resource base, only a few dozen systems or such, right?

Also, are we assuming the SL is relieved of its garrison duties against the periphery or doesn't need to maintain baseline presences in its backfields to quell the houselords from rising up?

>MontKa, based tau captcha is based.

>>47544015
Devastator's pretty much the epitome of the optimized all-range assault, in the era it shows up in.

was it ever explained why weapons in the BT-Verse are so short ranged? I mean with their tech shooting across the globe shouldn't be a problem. I would also understand it if it was just a gameplay balance thing.

My personal headcanon just thinks that the Electronic Warfare tech is so advanced, it doesn't leave them a choice but duke it out at close range

>>47545021

>was it ever explained why weapons in the BT-Verse are so short ranged?

Less sophistication perhaps?

The downwards spiral of the Sphere that was the Succession Wars demanded weapons that were simple, cheap and effective to use.

Could also be due to many conflicts happening in Urban areas where.

>>47545021
>. I would also understand it if it was just a gameplay balance thing.
Yes, it is exactly that.