Big Z edition
>RESOURCES
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
http://www.mtgcommander.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
http://www.tappedout.net
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.
http://www.edhrec.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.
http://manabasecrafter.com/
>CARD SEARCHING
>Official search site. Current for all sets.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface
http://www.magiccards.info
Gonna play EDH tonight. Wish me luck.
>>47477195
Have fun nigga, what deck(s) you playin
>>47476192
Or you could help the shitters in your group realize that their irrational behavior isn't helping them win and get them to correct that so you can eventually enjoy games without all that metagame bullshit. That tends to work with all but the biggest retards. But I see you'd rather feed that cycle of bullshit because you have no interest in good decision-making at your table. So enjoy letting the dice decide your actions and justifying poor play patterns with "I play against retards who are incapable of rational thought"
You keep putting yourself above those idiots who are easily swayed by these actions but you are exactly as bad as them, you're not outplaying them in any way, shape or form, you're lowering the overall level of the games and pretending you're a clever rusemaster while doing so.
>>47477415
Ah. Clearly, if people are bad players, it is my fault for taking advantage of it. Who cares how you win?
>>47477571
Again, you're putting yourself above them. You're just as bad a player as them. If you exploit the fact one player holds grudges, that player can exploit that right back by threatening mutually assured destruction whenever you fuck with them. You're promoting that kind of metagamey bullshit at your table. Hell, he might have been exploiting that before you thought to take advantage of it. It's the chicken or the egg, which player's bullshit came first, nobody know.
You will never be able to convince me that rolling a dice to decide who to attack is good play. It's fucking retarded and if that ends up working out better than thinking your actions through in your playgroup, you either suck at the game or you play with retards. Possibly a mix of both.
I'm back from my FLGS, for Commander night. Only played two games because of coming late, but it was very good.
First game I was playing Phenax vs Sidisi zombie and Teysa. First turn bloodchief ascension basically made the game. Also pratetor grasp allowed me to steal Liliana from the Sidisi player and tutor mindcrank and duskmantle adept when they destroyed the ascension.
Following game was me with Trostani vs Krenko vs Atarka. I had in play Trostani, a fully charged Luminarch ascension and an avatar token made with ajani Goldmane that was a 54/54 and I still lost because the Krenko player forced me to use Dromoka command to kill a goblin to stop him from going infinite and that left me open to an 11/10 double striking Atarka.
Very good games that said.
>>47477640
Every decision you make in a game is exploiting people's tendency to make mistakes.
>>47477919
You're not exploiting anyone's mistakes, you're letting a dice dictate your actions because the opponents convinced you they'll retaliate if you decide to attack them. And you somehow convinced yourself that you were the smart one in that whole thing. Think for a fucking second.
I'm running a Big Black list using erebos and it's sweet. Crypt ghast, nirkana revenant, extraplanar lens etcetc. It wins by tutoring out fatties and hardcasting them. For any fellow Big Black players, do you run any rituals? Pros and cons
>>47478280
Man, you are really on about this dice thing? That seems to be the biggest sticking point.
My entire premise was simply using people's poor threat assessment to win the game is a legitimate strategy. And if you can convince someone you aren't a threat using your in game decisions as evidence, it is still strategy.
Anyway, you go on thinking that the only reason you don't win every game is because of random chance and stupid players.
>>47478360
As a fellow Erebos Big Black player, I don't run any rituals, I never felt the need. I'd usually rather have a doubler.
>>47478387
>And if you can convince someone you aren't a threat using your in game decisions as evidence, it is still strategy.
Yes, that is a strategy, but rolling a dice to decide who to attack is the exact opposite of strategy, it's being a complete dumbfuck. And going "You should attack him, he attacked you last turn" is metagamey bullshit that should only ever work against 12 years old. If you don't want to promote an environment in which people play logically and in which threat assessment based on actual game information is key to winning, then the more power to you, but don't go pretending you're some master strategist here.
>>47477363
I don't know yet. Probably Nefarox and Sidisi.
>>47476583
This reminds of the times in the distant past when a vanilla a 6/6 for 7 was considered good enough to be a rare.
>>47478555
>If you don't want to promote an environment in which people play logically and in which threat assessment based on actual game information is key to winning, then the more power to you, but don't go pretending you're some master strategist here.
My point is that most EDH groups don't think logically or base their decisions on game information. And you refusing to accept that is being stubborn and doesn't help you win more.
I'm gonna drop the charade. I don't think of myself as a master strategist. I also haven't rolled a dice to decide who to artack, ever. I have attacked someone and said "Have to attack someone" but that's honestly about the extent to which I play politics. For the sake of argument, I just wanted to discuss why people consider that sort of thing underhanded or unsportsmanlike. And I am always confused why people so hellbent on winning seem fine when a stupid threat assessment is in your favor but not when it isn't.
Anyway, sorry for having wasted your time.
>>47478690
>My point is that most EDH groups don't think logically or base their decisions on game information.
That's true. Most EDH groups are bad. Which doesn't mean improvement is impossible. If I regularly play against idiots who have terrible play patterns and can't into threat assessment, I try to help them improve, rather than trying to encourage these bad plays. There's no glory in beating retards who'll attack anyone you point your finger at. I know a player who totally gets a kick out of that, he'll sit at a table with complete casuals and pit them against each others by exploiting their gullibility and tendencies to hold grudge while he's pillowforting to his combo win. That guy is a scrub, he has no interest in getting better and he can't ever put up a fight at the big boys table where people are more prone to telling him "Shut the fuck up, I don't need your input when deciding who to attack."
>>47478797
Admittedly, given how scrubby he is, you shouldn't have a problem beating him even if there are two other newbies at the table. My point is if you do lose to that, you didn't play the politics game right.
Anyway, I do agree that those people are the worst.
>>47478671
Dude I LOVE Vizzerdrix!
>>47478945
>My point is if you do lose to that, you didn't play the politics game right.
Disagreed. I'd rather lose a game to that bullshit than try to retaliate with the same kind of bullshit. I think of myself as a somewhat competitive player but winning at all costs isn't my focus, I'd rather have good games in which my skills are put to the test. Bickering over who should attack who based on information that's not relevant to the game at hand, that's not a skill I want to work on and improve in EDH.
When only one guy is trying to be a manipulative little bitch, the other players tend to wise up and stop falling for it. When everyone's trying to be a manipulative little bitch, metas degenerate and games devolve into schoolground arguments. You should never play their game, it's not worth it.
>>47478671
>tfw my commander is a french vanilla 4/3 first strike for six mana
I do it for the flavor.
Is the lack of mana on Ith's Maze really a drawback if you count it as a 1-cost artifact in your list? In other words, when slotting into an existing deck, you replace a nonland card with it.
It can set you back a turn if you need to play it early, but won't cost any tempo if you didn't already have a land to play that turn. It just feels a little risky.
Also
>that Duplicant reprint
about damn time
>>47479148
Ramirez?
>>47479397
Yeah. Proudly at the helm of my weakest and most thematically brilliant deck.
>>47479381
I file Maze of Ith under "generally worth it", though I find it even better in green and/or black. Green can get it out "cheaper" thanks to having extra land drops, it also has infinite mana combos with it and Argothian Elder. Black has Urborg, which offsets the Maze's downsides a bit since you'll often be tutoring for Urborg anyway.
>>47479459
Let's see a list, I'm a sucker for flavor
I'm surprised at how few artifacts have a looting effect. I have an artifact deck that likes putting cards in the GY and the best I see are Knowledge Jar, Anvil of Bogardan, and Deal Broker.
Granted the deck is Grixis colors so I have access to other looting abilities but still, you'd think with the artifact theme and looting theme that UR share they'd have a little more overlap.
>>47479569
Sorry for the wait, have a deck.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ramirez-lord-of-the-seas/
I'm a newbie, who should I build, and whose most playable on a budget?
>>47480179
Ephara seems like a good, fun commander for a new player. Token-generating cards are cheap/plentiful and having a draw engine for a commander is a great starting point.
Have a few backup plans in case someone's trying to combo off or gain infinite life (Counterspell etc) but don't think armies of 1/1s or flyers are bad in this format.
If the idea of dealing 40 damage to multiple players sounds tedious to you, then try Heartless Hidetsugu.
>>47480179
I'd recommend Ephara or Brago. They're both commanders that are extremely easy to build around but with very high ceilings meaning you can put together something playable with minimal efforts and have ample room to grow and improve as you learn the format.
Of those, Brago is the most powerful, but he's also a bit more complex and also more likely to draw everyone's aggro. For those reasons I'd recommend Ephara for a new player, it's my "comfy" control deck when I feel like playing casually. But Brago is also a fantastic starting point. Whichever you build, you can put the other in the deck, they like the same things, so you could always switch later.
Be warned that Brago in particular is total cancer at high levels of play so you can start there to learn your way around EDH and branch out into weaker things like Rakdos or Basandra later.
>>47480179
Tromokratis or Hidetsugu are both pretty easy to build, and neither should be terribly expensive if I remember correctly.
With Tromokratis, you just need to pack protection for your commander and have something ready to tap one of your opponent's creatures. Beyond that, building big blue is kind of fun - You throw in a bunch of huge dudes and mana doublers/ramp and you've just got a huge field of giant monsters and bad things happen to your opponents
Hidetsugu works well with burn and damage doublers - You put yourself to an odd number of life and your opponent to an even number, and drop a damage doubler and Hidetsugu and win.
>>47480179
For a super budget, just for fun kind of thing you can't go wrong with Thelon's silly fungus man shenanigans.
It's not strong, but it can fly under the radar in multiplayer and has a lot of cool interactions. Plus when I made the deck it did a good job of absorbing a lot of rares a had laying around with no place to put them.
>>47480395
I always thought Felon looked pretty decent, but I never found out if there were enough playable Fungus creatures to support a singleton deck.
>>47480385
>>47480395
Not that anon but I'm torn on Thelon and Hidetsugu. While it's true they're cool and fun casual decks that are easy to get into, I don't think they do a good job of teaching newer players what EDH is about. I say this because I started playing EDH with Aurelia and I was immensely frustrated with my first couple games, because I was using a fringe strategy that wasn't really exploiting the structure of the format. I dipped into UGx shenanigans, went "Oh so that's what EDH enables", and once I learned that I started to build and have fun with decks that prey on UGx shenanigans.
You have to understand the main strategy before attempting to counter it, is what I'm saying. But I guess in a casual enough meta starting with Hidetsugu or Thelon might be fine.
>>47480292
Out of all my Blue/White Commanders, she does look the most fun, especially since I'm not too much for blinking.
>>47480332
Guy I met at the LGS has a Brago he built for $35. Price is tempting, but I think I'll wait till I can pilot his next time he's around. Blink always seemed like an asshole mechanic, doesn't surprise me to hear Brago's cancer in tournaments.
>>47480385
Blue monsters have always been one of my favorites, a buddy of mine gave me Stormtide Leviathan when I first started playing, and it's helped me ever since.
>>47480395
Thelon is definitely the most tempting right now, especially since the guy with the Brago deck gave him to me when he heard I was wanting to build him.
>>47480450
Looking it up, UGx is obviously Blue and Green, but what's the x for? Ramp?
>get a 1v1 pickup game older nerd dude.
>lose first round to Isamaru with a decent aggro play.
>Next game I win.
>"Saw you drawing a lot of the same cards"
Yeah, tutors and partial paris do that.
>I win again.
>Continues to insinuate I'm cheating
>"You sure your shuffling right?"
Yeah, you also refused to cut.
>"We'll i only lost that game because I didn't draw removal"
...
>Win next game.
>"yeah well I could kill you turn 4 since i had phyrexian naugt in my hand. You just had Linvala out."
...
>"Also i should have killed your caged sun.... but I didn't"
...
>"And..."
OMG you fucking cast bribery when I had homeward already on the fucking field! you can't be with dense.
>>47480179
You can fuck people up with Hidetsugu
>>47480429
honestly the best fungus in the deck is Chameleon Colossus,
From there just pick and choose which ones you think are cool, you only have 20 something slots to fill out and enough fungus to do about that. Your playing of tribal synergy on not individual power on the card.
It's also delicious to have someone bribery you and then quit in frustration.
Just got back from my first FNM. Green text incoming.
>first time playing MTG in over a decade
>first time playing commander
>go to newly found lgs
>about 30 people there, half there for commander half there for FNM modern
>go to enter name for commander
>find out theres no entry fee
>cool
>also find out for every person you kill during the event nets you $5 store credit
>dope
>first match
>playing non jank Meren precon edit
>guy across from me pulls out a giant ass stack of hard cases
>its his fucking deck
>its literally like a foot tall
>find out hes a judge
>find out guy next to me is also judge
>other guy playing BU commander that copies things
>other guys are some UR control shit
>guy with foot high deck gets mana screwed whole game
>other guy gets out like one merfolk
>guy with UB drops a darksteel plate turn 3 and proceeds to slowly kill us all with commander damage
>next match
>guy running Horbi control
>other dudes commander is like necropotence on a stick
>other dude with kaalia
>guy with necropotence commander turn 6 exsanguinates us for like 30 damage each
>knocked out of tournament
>leave with $0 store credit
It was kinda____funbut also kinda meh. I wish I was able to play some more matches. I think I was pretty bad at piloting my deck. Also I noticed my commander being targeted for removal a lot. What are some cards that help protect my commander?
Overall experience:5/10 will be attending next week.
>>47480572
>Looking it up, UGx is obviously Blue and Green, but what's the x for? Ramp?
Blue, green and any other color. The third color doesn't have a huge impact on the playstyle, there'll be some differences between Sultai and Bant and Temur decks but overall the general idea of "ramp into value into more value" remains the same. It teaches an essential aspect of EDH, being that since people take longer to kill and people always have stuff to do due to being able to recast their commander, whoever gets the most mana in play has a huge advantage. UGx is just the best at ramping, never running out of action and casting 4+ spells per turn in the late game.
>>47480583
The "if I had only drawn X" or "I could have killed Y" people are the worst
Well you fucking didn't do it so don't bitch about it, spilled milk and all that
>>47480688
>>other dudes commander is like necropotence on a stick
>>other dude with kaalia
>>guy with necropotence commander turn 6 exsanguinates us for like 30 damage each
Sounds like Griselbrand. He's banned. Tell that guy to suck a dick.
>>47480688
>playing BU commander that copies things
Lazav? I'm surprised it was slow, he should have been milling into fatties
Also Meren is deadly when built right so they probably saw you as a threat
>guy with necropotence commander turn 6 exsanguinates us for like 30 damage each
I'm sorry anon, BigBlackExsanguinate.dec is the worst
>>47480706
I like to go "If I had drawn U, V, W, X, Y and Z I would have killed you all turn 1".
>>47480688
>necropotence on a stick
This guy? If so, he's banned. Whoever was running him is a fag.
>>47480729
>>47480737
>>47480792
Oh wait no. Just looked it up the commander was Daima Sage of Stone. I just remembered the 'skip your draw step' part of it.
>>47480706
You know you can say something like that without "bitching" about it
One of my favorite parts about edh is that one card can change a game so dramatically
>>47480820
Alright that's a big difference
Damia is strong as all getout too
>>47480832
You can, sure, but I meant like the people who get overly salty about not drawing into that one thing at just the right time
I agree though, I like the big game changes that can result from a single card
I truly cannot understand why people don't play with commander damage
>>47480880
No I know what you mean
My post came off like I was disagreeing I just meant that the problem was their attitude not with their idea
People in my playgroup sometimes do that thing where they enumerate all the different perceived misfortunes that happened to them that game
If only any of these things were different I would've won, therefore your win doesn't count
>>47480688
Isn't 100 cards cap for commander?
>>47480917
Commander damage is dumb
Do you have some sort of infinite life gain meta?
>>47480820
Damia is objectively not banworthy but she subjectively feels like she should be. The deck is perfectly beatable and can misfire really hard when it faces the right kind of disruption, but when Damia works, boy does it feel like the most cancerous shit ever. You have my sympathies anon, losing to Damia is never a pleasant experience.It's because you know they're going to draw 7 cards, and you don't have the proper answer right away, and once they draw their 7 it's already too late because of fucking course they have Forbid now. So it's like watching a train crash in slow motion from the driver's cabin.
![ultra-pro-card-supplies-25-count-top-loader-hard-case-2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/x31v0ic.jpg "ultra-pro-card-supplies-25-count-top-loader-hard-case-2[1].jpg")
>>47480940
His deck was in 100 of these.
>>47480965
>Commander damage is dumb
Why, because it takes 21 damage? That's over half your life, less if you run lifegain. It makes a certainfunarchetype viable
Speaking of lifegain, what the fuck makes it so attractive to newbies
>>47481007
Jesus Christ
I'm thinking of finally switching from just Titania to a duel colored commander like Toad or Angrynath any suggestions on which would play better.
>>47480982
He didn't really do much with damia actually it was more the cabal coffers+urborg exsanguinate combo that fucked us. coffers+urborg was actually the reason I decided against making a mono black commander deck when I first was looking at potential commanders, it seemed kind of anti-fun.
>>47481090
I like the toad more than angrynath
>>47481090
Omnath looks more fun, cheap, and easier to pilot, Toad looks stronger and has better colors.
>Introduced my group to EDH about a year ago
>they built shit out of pack fodder
>I won a lot more often than I lost because I bought singles
>caught shit-talk about spending more than $5 on a card
>group has finally come to understand that boardwipes are key
>couple guys also started to buy singles
I can't run wild with decks anymore but games have gotten so much better as a result
How do you all feel about the 2015 precon decks? I have the Bird Wizard deck from 2013 and I love it, but I want to get a second deck... and being poor/lazy I figure the precons are a good way to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>47481098
>cabal coffers+urborg exsanguinate combo
Ahhh yep, that sounds like every deck ever that runs black
That's part of why I don't want to build with black, because I know that's a combo too enticing to pass up. Even though I REALLY want to build Kaervek.
>>47481067
Not him but I sort of agree, and I say that as a Boros player who just loves strapping a Sunforger to Aurelia, hitting twice and tutoring up Final Fortune. I've exploited commander damage more than anyone else in my group but it just feels so... unnecessary, I guess? It's not a huge deal but it's sort of annoying if someone absentmindedly hits you for 2 with his Grand Arbiter and you have to keep that tracked for the rest of the game. It's really a ridiculously minor complaint but when you look at what commander damage meant back then, when commanders were elder dragons, and what it means now, well I don't feel like it's as necessary today.
Remove commander damage, lower life totals to 30, aggro/voltron decks are just as viable as before the change. Lifegain gets a buff but who fucking cares, lifegain is a shit strategy in EDH and the lower life total means less time to set up and stabilize. 40 life is dumb I'll fight you over this.
>>47481140
WB is pillowforty, kinda annoying to play against.
UR is concentrated fun, lots of stupid things
BG is very, very strong if you don't deal with it immediately
WR is ...alright
UG is completely broken if you don't deal with it immediately.
I like 2014 more, personally.
>>47481098
That's the beauty (ugliness) of Damia decks. They don't have to play their commander. It's always there just in case they need to reload. They're a powerful BUG deck before Damia, they're a powerful BUG deck that refills their hand with Damia if the game gets to that point.Cast Armageddon, get bitches
>>47481140
Meren is love. Meren is life. Also you can upgrade the deck and increase its efficiency by a lot for only like $50.
>>47481167
You and I would make a good 2HG team, I can tell
Honestly, if it's a commander I know doesn't rely on commander damage for the win, like GAA4, I don't bother keeping track. That is a good point about life though, 30 sounds better
>>47481155
I never even considered throwing coffers / exsanguinate in my black decks. Grenzo and Anafenza kill with aggro or combo, not with life drain. That shit's for pussies. The lower my life total when I win, the happier I am.
>>47481230
I was considering Seizan and going full-on suicide aggro
Could I see your Grenzo list?
>>47481067
Lifegain is basically a shield to them.
Or they learned about Necropotence/SuiBlack/Burn.and realized that more life = more fuel
I dunno man, I started in 2004, and the FIRST thing I was taught was that the last 4 life mattered (fucking bolt). I also came from yugioh, where the draw power was a great deal stronger, so I had an idea of card advantage going on. I picked up on Necropotence's strength immediately. I think it depends on where you start, because lifegain is fucking useless in yugioh too.
>>47481193
I run MLD in my Trump (Numot) deck. MLD, boardwipes, the works. And also a ton of defenders and artifacts. I only whip it out against no fun allowed turbonerds to make EDH great again
>>47481224
I have died to Edric, Zur, Derevi and Grand Arbiter commander damage. You have to keep track of that damage, you never know when it will be relevant. And I guess that's part of the annoyance. Most decks won't kill you that way, in most games, but it's a thing you have to track anyway even though it's likely to be entirely irrelevant.
>>47481256
I'm sorry, you can't. Every time I post it there's an argument over Priest of Urabrask. Also I haven't updated it in ages, so there's that. But there are a lot of really interesting Grenzo lists on tappedout covering many different takes on the deck, it's better to view as many of them as possible to figure out how you want to play it and what your X value will be.
>>47481175
>>47481215
Thanks for the advice. BG and UR look like my sort of fun.
![cabalCoffers[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ybcUiPn.jpg "cabalCoffers[1].jpg")
>people complaining about the big black deck
Shh, just let it happen.
How should I be building this useless pile of garbage?
I traded someone laundry money for her, and now I'm trying to find justification for making the undeniably shitty joke deck around her.
There seem to be two camps, from what I can see:
1) Survive the trigger
Do this with Torpor Orb, Platinum Angel, Sundial of the Infinite, Command Beacon, and a billion tutors to get those cards. Hope your opponent doesn't have removal while you're doing it.
2) Cast Phage, counter that shit
There are juuuuust enough black counterspells to make this viable. This puts Phage in the grave, and she can then be returned to hand from the billion effects that do that in black.
Should I just be running both of these? It feels like a really linear plan of "Find a way to not die, cast Phage, give her unblockable/landwalk/trample, murder people". I guess that's not dissimilar to other aggro decks, but yeesh.
Anyone here play her, and can give advice?
>>47481167
>Remove commander damage, lower life totals to 30, aggro/voltron decks are just as viable as before the change
That's a pretty good solution, but what happens in case of infinite lifegain? Every deck will just need to have an alternate win con or else you scoop when it happens?
I'm designing an Ayli decks and it seems pretty easy to combo off and gain infinite life with her.
>>47481298
Aaaand I up and forget the image.
Fairly obvious who I'm talking about, though.
>>47481265
I feel like it's more the former than the latter. I have yet to meet a greenhorn MTG player who likes the idea of suicide black. The only time I give a shit about my life total is if I'm really getting pounded on and will die before the turn comes back to me. I've pulled off a bunch of 1-life wins
However I'm a babby in terms of MTG experience, I started during INN-RTR standard, discovered EDH about a year later and never looked back
>>47481306
>That's a pretty good solution, but what happens in case of infinite lifegain? Every deck will just need to have an alternate win con or else you scoop when it happens?
Well yeah, that's what infinite life does in every other format, and it's not like infinite life is so much easier to get in EDH.
Infinite life is pretty much at the bottom of the combo hierarchy, it doesn't win you the game, there's a huge chunk of decks it does literally nothing against because they're not killing you with finite damage, so I can't perceive any situation where infinite life would become a real problem in EDH.
>>47481120
>>47481123
Just looked up a good list and Omnath would only take 6 cards to build but boy do I agree that toad would bring a lot more strength
>>47481298
I don't know what compels people to not play magic and instead babysit a total liability of a strategy all game
You're putting all your efforts into shoving a square peg into a round hole when you could be enjoying the easy breezy feeling of playing a deck that works, that works for you rather than you working for it
>>47481298
>>47481317
That new land seems like a decent solution, and can be fetched with an Explorer's Map which every black deck should have anyway for your Coffers or Urborg.
I have a Phage sitting in a binder that I really want to use but it just feels like she's always better in the 99. Anyone have any experience using her and if she's too hard to cast?
I'd love to combo her with Endless Whispers because I think it's a fun card, but not sure it's worth downgrading my half-decent monoblack deck into a joke.
>>47481317
Either survive the trigger or counter/reanimate her like you said
Then use Dauthi Embrace because NO ONE runs shadow creatures. Honestly she's not great, I'd rather have her in the 99 of an aggro deck
>>47481397
>Dauthi Embrace
Hoooooly shit what is that
I'm finding a room for that immediately in Skithiryx
>>47481306
Infinite life can be beaten with infinite damage (not always but it's possible)
Also you can win by decking your opponent or some Jank "you win the game" wincon
I'm not adverse to scooping to infinite life, doesn't seem any easier to pull off than any other combo so idk why we need a rules fail safe to prevent infinite life from winning you the game
>>47481438
>some Jank "you win the game" wincon
Are you talking shit about Azor's Elocutors? You better not be
>>47481460
That's just one example
The first one I thought of was actually barren glory lol, but Azor elocutors and lab man are probably the most common you'll see
>>47481460
Felidar Sovereign is a popular one with casuals.
>>47481479
I actually run Barren Glory as a win con in one deck but I'm OK with you talking shit about it. It's not easy to make work.
>>47481390
I'm currently piloting Zada, Mayael, and Sakashima. I've got a pretty wide range of styles and strategies.
Part of the fun is making it work.
>>47481393
Yeah, Beacon is on my list of options. Same with Endless Whispers. You might be right with giving up, but I can just proxy it on paper until I decide if it's worthwhile.
>>47481397
Dauthi Embrace is a top-level juke. Thanks, matey.
>>47480688
was khis ciommander grisel brand?guys please help i'm so drunk
>>47478280
>>47478555
what the fuck are you huys on about, i have been known to roll a dice once or twice at the beginning of the game because no apparent advantage would be gained by focusing attention on a particular player, if the board state dictates it or rather if you have to make your decision based in very limited knowledge, rolling a dice is a good way to keep the game casual with people you haven't played before. stop being a social retard. it's a fucking game.
Bbbut mhu strategy.
if you think you can make an informed decision on whom to attack first based on land go for 2 turns while facing similar tier commanders in a casual setting you are retarded.
>>47481945
this guy gets it
>>47481945
>if you think you can make an informed decision on whom to attack first based on land go for 2 turns while facing similar tier commanders in a casual setting you are retarded.
If you think you can't you are retarded. It's not always going to turn out to be the right choice because a lot of variables are involved but
>if your best guess is worse than a dice roll on average, you suck at this game
>>47481624
Brewing a Mikaeus deck right now and question.
Do +1/+1 counters cancel out -1/-1 counters and vice versa? Or does a creature still count as having both counters but gets instead +0/+0?
>>47481390
fun experiences when shit works just right.
"remember that time I got a jitte to 69 in two turns and whipped the board to swing for game, that was funny (people laughing/having a chuckle)
vs
"i go infinite again guys, gg"(people just scoop cards and shuffle, maybe a groan and a roll of the eyes)
fun.
games are fun.
>>47482063
whats the difference between getting 69 jitte counters and comboing infinitely?
surely your opponents couldve just scooped at 10-15 jitte counters anyway, seems like a retarded story, doesnt sound fun at all
again, i know games are about fun, thats why i asked why somebody would want to NOT PLAY the game and instead babysit an unworkable gameplan
>>47481624
zada, mayael, and sakashima all do something interesting and fun
phage is a useless piece of shit that is just pathetic to watch.
its like if you were watching the NBA and one of the teams, unannounced, has a retarded guy on the team, and everybody has to awkwardly wonder if the retarded guy is there for some sort of charity thing or when they are going to go back to the normal game, or whether they are supposed to feel guilty for not wanting to watch the retarded person flail around, or if the team with the retarded guy is trying to insult the other team by saying they can win with a retarded teammate
>>47482035
50/50 or 1 in 3 is pretty good, adding to that not gaining enemies by playing casual rather than assessing an empty board for the first 2 turns is a better play 90% of the time.
if a player has a mana dork or a mana rock I will hit them. if somebody t1 tutors, or gets any advantage by draw discard or some other indication of shenanigans then it's fine to smash them, if somebody is playing DT or stacks deck fucking kill them. if you are making a blind assessment and thinking you are right it will affect the rest of the game, pinpointing one of your enemies is more likely to hurt you in the long run if you are the kind of person who can't keep your options open because now you got a monkey on your back attacking you seeking retaliation. in the beginning of the game playing the players is better than the playing the game, t1, t2, maybe t3.
>>47482228
or they just built a good deck and stomp you with a bit of good luck, plus they get their giggles from beating you with a retard.
>>47482057
They cancel. Yes, you use it with persist to go infinite. Don't run Mike's Trike unless you like Archenemy
>>47481090
Omnath is fun as shit, but is weak to removal. If an opponent decides they can deal with the damage youre fucked
>>47482253
Yeah no, unless you're playing against retards who base their threat assessment on who hurt their feelings most, deciding what you're going to do is always better than leaving it to chance. You have a ton of information in the early turns even with only two lands in play.
>what are my opponents playing?
>did they mulligan?
>do they look happy with their hand? Are they good at bluffing?
>what lands did they play?
>what's my matchup like against their decks?
>how good is my hand against their decks?
>is it typical for them to have no plays in the first couple turns?
>am I more likely to get them with regular damage, commander damage, an infinite combo?
>are their decks likely to have an answer to my attacker? are they likely to use it?
There's a ton of information to derive even from an empty board. Unless you're bad at the game, your best guess should be better than a dice roll, and it doesn't even take a lot of energy to analyze that, you should figure this shit out in a matter of seconds, and if you can't, you might be one of those shitters that only play to the board and ignore everything that isn't a permanent and currently in play. Try to work on that.
>>47482253
>if you are the kind of person who can't keep your options open
This just in, your options are still open even if you hit someone for 2 on turn 3. You're not locking yourself into attacking them until the end of the game. How is this even a thing I have to explain? You can attack someone one turn and attack someone else the next turn based on the new information you have and that's still better than rolling a fucking dice.
So what exactly is the difference between control/combo and just combo? I'm assuming one slows the game to assemble the combo and the latter has a ton of draw, little control except to make sure the combo goes off, and some ramp.
>>47482442
Your assumption is pretty much correct. Control combo mostly aims to stop opponents dead in their tracks, and their wincon is a combo because they need a wincon and combo is faster and more compact than anything else.
Combo aims to minimize interaction with their opponents, and most of their disruption is geared towards protecting their combo. They're about speed, they want to get their combo online ASAP and not have to worry about anything else going on.
>>47482442
combo doesnt care about disrupting their opponents, they do have to be aware of what disruption is incoming from their opponents, but beyond that, they are playing solitaire
control combo is a control deck with a combo wincon, lots of control cards happen to be combo cards too, i.e. venser shaper savant can be used to disrupt your opponents in the early and mid-game then later it can be used with deadeye navigator to close out the game
>>47482566
>>47482493
Alright, assuming one is just going for the win, is pure combo better? I imagine being uninterested with what the other guys are doing and getting to my wincon fast would be more effective.
>>47482624
Depends on what you're playing against. You'll get eaten alive with pure combo if all your opponents are playing control/combo. But against non-combo decks, or just any average meta with varied archetypes, pure combo fares better. It's also a lot more boring but that's just my shitty opinion (which is better than the shitty opinion of solitaire-playing combofags)
>>47482664
Control combo does seem more resilient, yeah. And a little more fun, even if you're a dick just going for the win.
>>47481928
pls help
>>47482624
its close, depends on the meta
opposing control decks in a given multiplayer game benefit each other
if you have 3 control-combo decks in a 4 player game, they benefit from the disruption the others play, the 4th player has almost 0% chance of winning if his deck is full combo no disruption
but if you have 3 full-combo decks and 1 control-combo player in a 4 player game, the control-combo player is not very likely to win either, too many threats to be controlled, the winner will be whoever wins the race or more likely whoever comes in second, because the fastest combo-er will receive the most disruption, so second place will win
>>47482355
thanks for this informed post. while I can grant that there is a ton of information on the table, assuming that you are playing against new opponents, half of the indicators that would be good in other constructed formats are not reliable.
Mulligans happen more often because that's the nature of 100 card singleton,
people have pet cards that they are happy with. sandbaging is a thing.
people play edh for the variety of cards and approaches to building decks, the ability to play virtually every card available and a shit ton of other factors. cookie cutter commanders such as memnarch, Zur, Prosh, Augustus etc are pretty self evident threats. however when you have a table with all these at the ready, there us no way you can get a clear read on people unless they make themselves the apparent "archenemy"
while you can claim that you are making a decision that is strategically sound, it will be eskewd by other factors if the board state is 3 lands on each (for the sake of all colors) and they all have their grips full a die roll is as good as your opinion.
if you have further info like, p1 is a noob, p2 is a douche, p3 just dropped 2k on this net deck then it's different. it may just be my experience sience I play with a lot of new people every other week but it's just as likely you hit the one guy that gets salty over 7 life, the guy that gets butt hurt when tratened and the guy that makes plays every game like a pro.
making enemies you don't know anything about is shitty strategy. rolling can help with this.
>>47482850
>a die roll is as good as your opinion.
A dice roll is dumb luck. Your opinion should be based on some amount of information. If the dice roll is as good as your opinion on average, you're not using the information you have properly, or drawing the right conclusions.
You're only rarely going to have perfect information, in any game of Magic, especially in multiplayer. But what information you have does matter, and refusing to use it because you might end up being wrong is the objectively wrong way to go about things.
The downside is that some players are retards who'll hold grudges over an attack for two, and forego rational threat assessment to get back at you. Sure. There's no denying that shit happens. You should avoid playing with these retards, or at least try to get them to mend their ways for the betterment of the entire meta.
>>47482924
Follow-up: if you fall for the "I can't attack him because he'll retaliate" mindgames, then you're letting that player win. There's nothing stopping them from deciding to retaliate even if you attack them because of a dice roll. You should never let those shitty players dictate the pace of the game and you should definitely never let them force you to relegate your decision-making to a fucking dice.
>>47482955
>>47482924
i dont attack at all until my target is obvious
if lifegain doesnt matter then neither does swinging for 2 with my rec sage
>>47483007
I usually encourage people to take "free" attacks when they can in the early game, but since no attack is every truly and completely free, sometimes, staying back even on an empty board is the right call. Not attacking is better than picking your target with a dice roll because at least you made a decision.
>>47482924
if you think you are drawing the right conclusion from the get go, you are under the assumption you are the smartest person there, this leads to miss judging your opponents and is in general a bad thing to do in a competition or game.
I'm not saying that you should not reassess after every play and do the best with your info, I'm saying that in a situation with limited information, reading too much into the limited amount of information leads to mistakes more often than not, there is research on this shit. this is specially true in a game with so many unknown factors. you are looking at a sample of 2 in a sea of 10,000 and creating an unconcious bias in your future decisions as well as possibly making an enemy, this is not letting them play you, this is you playing the game, banking on people making rational decisions is not something people should do in games or real life. (treath assessment, this is my job)
>>47483007
this is an example of a threat. you should be targeted. keeping sage back to protect him is probably a good play. a good player should realize you have a combo based deck threatening with a win con on board. fuck you btw.
>>47483223
faulty thinking. unless it's based on an informed decision.
>>47483007
lol I'm triggered I thought you meant sage of hours. I apologize...
Speaking of Zur, what good hate for him is there?
I'm playing monoblack reanimator and his Rest in Peace nearly destroyed me yesterday. And that phasing enchantment was also huge pain in the ass.
Still managed to win though, but that's just because he was so focused on Riku player and his looming extra turns.
>>47483323
Zur is usually a one trick pony, boardwhipes, Sac removal, obnixious the target. artifacts that get rid of permanent is all black has for enchantments sadly.
Hypothetical scenario:
Let's say I was able to take control of someones commander, and then swing at that person with their commander for 21 damage. Do they lose due to commander damage even if it's from their own commander?
>>47483323
in mono black? your best options are kill spells and board wipes
its unfortunate that he gets around many kill spells being a black creature
but otherwise i would say black has the best and most options for stopping zur
zur doesnt have haste so you always have a chance to just kill him before he can attack
if he gets like diplomatic immunity first, you can move to toxic deluge, etc, again black has the most options here, but red and white are close
>>47483286
>if you think you are drawing the right conclusion from the get go
Except that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying your conclusions based on the information available should be better on average than a dice roll. How the fuck is that so hard to grasp? You're going to be wrong sometimes but an educated guess is better than throwing your hands up in the air and going "fuck it whatever I don't care let's roll a dice".
>reading too much into the limited amount of information leads to mistakes more often than not
So what you're saying is your best guess based on a fair amount of available information IS worse than a dice roll. The problem's you, get better. Might as well let the dice play the entire fucking game for you, you're never going to have perfect information and mistakes will always be a possibility.
>>47483390
yes
>>47483379
>casting Zur while playing Zur
>he hasn't heard of Esper DDS
>>47483398
but your fair amount is not good enough to make a reasonable claim of "I'm staragizing"
As for rolling the whole game, if you are making this shitty of an argument mind as well give up playing and become dirt farmer.
>>47483441
*stratagizing, I'm going to bed. night night.
>>47483441
You're the one who apparently has some arbitrary standard for how much information is enough to make an educated guess that's better than a dice roll, and apparently knowing what your opponents are playing is not enough to make threat assessment more reliable than A FUCKING DICE ROLL. The dice has NO information. You have SOME information. If your results are consistently worse than the dice, THEN YOU ARE USING THE INFORMATION WRONG.
Ultimately your first attack won't have an immense impact on your odds of winning but if you relegate your decision-making and threat assessment to a dice, then you're admitting that a piece of plastic is better than you at the game. Well alright then, I concede. You're right. The dice is better than you. Congratulations, you win.
>>47483501
not arbitrary just just better than 50/50 or 1 out of 3.
not all of us believe we can compute all this factors most of which are unknown and still call it a strategy.
having plausible deniability of intent and a similar result is better than being an ass hat. congrats you are an ass hat
>>47483549
>having plausible deniability of intent
God forbid your opponents learn you intend to kill them. You're right, that might work, if I see you letting a dice decide what your plays are, I might believe you're not trying to win (or even play) that fucking game.
>>47483549
Given how varied the format is, I find it very hard to imagine a scenario in which I sit across from 3 other players running different decks and find that on turn 2-3, I get to make an attack and all options are equal.
>>47483595
used to lessen the possibility of retaliation. I make it a point to mention it to people that team up that at some point during the game they will try to kill eachother.
just being a better player and having fun is my prerogative. you can just concede that your method and mine are about as effective as the other.
that being your reassuring yourself that you can figure out something with too many variables.
and me being a more pragmatic person that is also lazy.
chill man, it's just a game.
>>47483654
I dont know if I agree. People have no problem attacking the Oloro player before anyone else. Whats to say that guy dosnt have a shit deck that does nothing, and that you couldnt count on someone commander damaging him out at some point thus negating the life gain. Everyone is going to have a precieved amount of knowledge and attacking via dice is kinda stupid. Just attack at whoever you precieve as a threat, even if it's just based off their commander, then say you are going to go around in a circle of attacks. Durdle and "forget" to attack the other players. Do whatever you need to do to win.
>>47483654
sure it was just for the sake of argument. call it turn two with no plays other. than your t1 serra's ascendant.
>>47483668
Declining to make any decisions when presented with less than perfect information isn't pragmatism, it's not understanding the game. Don't try to paint this as you trying to be better at the game. What kind of logic does it take to convince yourself that relegating decisions to a dice is being better at the game? Just stick with the lazy angle, at least that's a more believable justification.
>>47483689
>Whats to say that guy dosnt have a shit deck that does nothing
Assuming you've literally never seen his deck before, an informed guess based on the commander alone should still be better, on average, than dumb luck. Sometimes you'll be wrong, of course. Even with near-perfect information, sometimes, you'll be wrong. You should still have a better success rate than a random number generator.
>>47483810
but you are all neglecting the fact that even though the dice has no justification it's still right 50% of the time or 1 in 3.
>>47483810
i dont see why "informed guessing" should always be better tahn random
i mean if youre WRONG thats worse than 50%, if your instincts lead you astray, youd be better off randomly choosing
not to mention the statement you make by choosing randomly
>>47483909
If you think you can't make better decisions than a fucking dice, and have no interest in fixing whatever makes you that bad, you should quit Magic. And games in general. And pretty much everything that requires any type of analytical skills.
>>47484004
it's called math anon. I don't make the rules I just play the games.
>>47484026
Maths proving you make worse decisions than a dice isn't an argument in favor of the dice method, it's just an indication you're hopelessly bad.
>I just play the games.
No, you help a dice play the game.
>>47484047
sweet dreams.
Wizards tongue my anus
>U/W player drops Back to Basics
>Playing Kozilek and don't have a billion Wastes to my name
>Next 3 draw steps are Wastes
>Cast Staff of Nin
>Draw a land every turn from then on out
>Cast Kozilek
>Draw into Artisan of Kozilek w/ Void Winnower in my GY
>Win
The moral of the story is that U/W can suck my ass.
>>47476583
Wu a shit. Wei4lyfe nigguh.
Wanting to build a Karlov deck. What's some good secret tech and tips for him?
>>47485296
Voltron stuff ( swords cloak ecc)
Little life gain effects like extort, soul sisters, sun droplet is dope
>>47483379
>>47483391
I'm definitely buying Silence the Believers.
There is also problem with original Sigarda, but i have Arcane Lighthouse and Sudden Spoiling for that.
Anyway, it was my first time playing edh at LGS, so we'll see how it goes next.
I'm looking for good "cheaty" commanders. I've played:
Mayael
Intet
Braids
Jalira
Jhoira
Rakdos
And grenzo
What would my next cheater commander be? I'd prefer to avoid mono color
>>47478518
Sikrit tek maybe?
>>47486344
I don't know man, Jhoira and Grenzo tell me you've already played the cheatiest motherfuckers available.
>>47486344
>>47486946
Oh I just remembered, Animar. It's probably going to scratch that itch for you.
Thoughts on this card?
Thinking of running it in a Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
>>47487007
It would mostly fulfill the same role as Archetype of Imagination, which I ran for a while in Maelstrom Wanderer and didn't hate. Seems decent if your MW list is a bit on the aggro side of things.
>>47487032
There's no Reach for Horsemanship.
>>47479381
Since I usually play Urborg or a Lantern it's usually not a problem for my decks to cut a basic land for it.
>>47487123
They're different abilities but the creatures would fulfill mostly the same role.
>Sun is bigger
>Sun beats Reach
>Archetype lets you block opponents' flying creatures
>Archetype isn't blocked by horsemanship creatures (lol)
>Archetype benefits / suffers from effects that care about flying creatures
>Archetype isn't legendary
If you're trying to be the aggro player, I do believe Sun is better. But they fit the same deck slot.
>>47487173
>Archetype isn't legendary
How is this relevant?
>>47487208
It's about as relevant as "there's no reach for horsemanship", really. It's a thing that will come up once in a while. Namely with clone effects.
I have found myself with something like Rites of Replication or Kiki-Jiki only to realize all my creatures in play are legendary.
>>47487280
Then copy someone else's. Reach is much more common than having nothing to copy, and why would you cast Kiki without the combo anyway?
>>47485296
Lifegain lands
Soul sisters
that one mana rock that gains you life when you tap itOloro
>>47487303
I'm going to stop you there and ask if you if you are legitimately incapable of envisioning a scenario where legendary is a downside, or if you're just arguing for the sake of argument because you take offense to someone comparing Sun to Archetype of Imagination. Because I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make right now.
When I read shit like "why would you cast Kiki without the combo anyway", I keep feeling like that poster is no longer thinking about real games of Magic where, you know, shit happens. Also, we're literally talking about a Maelstrom Wanderer deck, sometimes you cast spells because they're free and that's better than not casting them.
>>47487336
Fair enough. It's just that legendary is irrelevant in EDH 99.999% of the time. Anyway, why not justrun both?
>>47487336
Pre-emptive "why would you cast Maelstrom Wanderer without having set up your cascades with tutors"
>>47487374
>It's just that legendary is irrelevant in EDH 99.999% of the time.
This hasn't been my experience. Considering how good things like clones and Kiki are in this format, legendary often proves to be a factor in my playgroups. For the sake of argument, I'd say I only rarely run into issues with Reach, and the last time I did was because a new player was running Sylvan Prime without knowing it was banned.
>Why not run both?
If your goal with MW is to win through bashing with fatties then running both can be a pretty good idea. If you can only run one, I'd favor Sun Quan, his bigger body is relevant and you'd only want to clone one of these creatures as a last resort anyway.
>>47487374
> It's just that legendary is irrelevant in EDH 99.999% of the time
you know the commanders are legendary, right?
Also can't do clone gimmicks with legendarys, and clones are certainly not irrelevant.
>>47487434
>get a full turn's worth of blind Grenzo activations
>flip Liliana, Urabrask, black Sidisi, HOLY FUCK KIKI JACKPOT
>wave of excitement passes over me as I think of all the possibilities
>look at my board again
Oh. Fuck me. I'd say no more than a third of my creatures are legendary in that deck but that sort of shit does happen and it forces me to treat legendary as a factor when making cuts and substitutions.
>>47480688
Besides swiftfoot boots/lightning greaves, Green has access to Asceticism and Archetype of endurance Leyline of the Void is also just a card I would recommend to anyone running black
>>47479118
>I think of myself as a somewhat competitive player but winning at all costs isn't my focus, I'd rather have good games in which my skills are put to the test.
Well, that's completely fair. I can see that. I'm glad we ultimately came to a reasonable conclusion.
I actually got to play EDH again! It was nice. I played 4 of my decks. My bad decks lost, my good decks won. All is right in the world.
I just realized I called my Nefarox a good deck. Jesus.
Anyway, I have oodles of cards I need to slot in and fucktons of cards I need to cut. Also, I managed to keep my opponents from playing due to Lyzolda. How the fuck does that happen? They were literally draw going for like 7 turns. I felt bad, but like, it wasn't a lock of any sort.
Why is gifts ungiven banned? It seems like it would be great for a game with some politics.
>>47488393
It was too easy to have a guaranteed instant win in a singleton format
>>47485296
Felidar Sovereign and Test of Endurance if you want to be an ass about it.
Greed and Necropotence are fucking amazing.
>>47485634
>>47487310
These guys are also right, Soul Sisters are essential. I also add all four of the Blood Artist cards for additional small lifegain.
>>47488442
Why is Tooth and Nail not banned?
>>47488590
>have two black decks
>neither of which runs Necropotence
It's weird, I know it's a ridiculously powerful card and I run it every time in 60-cards formats, but I just don't feel like throwing it in Anafenza and Grenzo. It's simply not essential for those archetypes.
>>47488619
No reason, there is a reason warping wail exists now anon, its sol ring levels of importance.
>>47488619
Because T&N is a Timmy card and a lot of players run it not as part of a combo but just to get some fatties into play for fun and profit. Apparently. I've never seen that happen. But it's a Timmy card, I swear.
I think gifts Ungiven is significantly more broken than tooth and nail
It's only 4 mana and it's instant speed
So it's possible to win out of nowhere with it quite easily
Whereas they have to ramp to 9 mana in one turn and then the NEXT turn cast tooth and nail
Tooth and nail is good but gifts Ungiven is better
>>47488644
What's Bananafenza's gameplan?
>>47488885
>mfw ive seen more infinites off of a forked tooth and nail than I have seen play two fatties
>>47489178
Get stony silence out and beat down with hatebears. Alternate Reveillark combo wincon in case the game goes long.
Black is the tertiary color and I have a couple things that prevent people from drawing multiple cards, Necro just wouldn't be at its best in the deck.
>>47488644
i love necropotence but every single black deck i make wants to discard all the time, every turn
>>47489238
necro doesnt draw cards so it actually is ideal with "you cant draw multiple cards" effects like spirit of the labyrinth
>>47488619
A better question is why defense of the hearth isn't banned. It's very cheap, and in a multi-man pod is almost garaunteed to go off. At which point you fetch any two creature combo.
>>47489262
Oh hey, I hadn't even considered that. That said, I still don't want Necropotence in the deck. BBB casting cost isn't a freebie and it's just not in line with the hatebears strategy.
>>47489329
>Almost guaranteed to go off
Opponents have a full turn to answer it or wrath the board.
>>47489329
in my meta, defense of the heart almost never goes off
still a decent card cuz you need to remove it or you can lose, but in my experience somebody always does in fact remove it
Speaking of lifegain, I know Esper and BW are the best lifegain color for commander nowadays, but I love the idea of Naya lifegain. What fun red and green cards can be used with lots of life? Searing Meditation is one, but unlike black, I can't just keep paying life.
>Tfw waiting for two decks in the mail.
>Tfw they're in transit to the destination from the town over.
>>47489687
Treasonous ogre is a red card that lets you pay life for value
sylvan library is good with lifegain
White has lots of life total matters effects
>>47489692
>purchasing an entire deck over the Internet
>purchasing two entire decks over the Internet
The absolute madman!
>>47488885
Dunno, the worst thing I do with it is Avenger+Regal Force or the Hoof, but I'm playing mono-G so I only have myself to blame.
>>47489726
Oh yeah. Sylvan Library is a good idea. And yeah, looking at the list, it seems it would be a red green splash. I've never not balanced all the colors, so it'll be a bit of a deckbuilding challenge.
>>47489755
I like to get eternal witness + Vorinclex and then cast it again in the same turn, getting green warden of Murasa + another fatty, then I cast it again getting like craterhoof + something, maybe restoration angel to double my craterhoof boost
>>47489692
>>Tfw waiting for a card in the mail.
In-country mail normally takes 2 weeks to arrive (unless priority mail but that quadruples the shipping). Also gets lost frequently, but there's insurance for that.
>>47489738
I was born with rabies and my parents didn't love me because they both had mono, so that's why I do crazy shit like this, anon.
>>47489893
Explains everything
>>47489692
>tfw ordered and waiting on the 2nd-to-last nm foil remaining for your commander
Still p expensive but I feel like I dodged a bullet there. Shit's getting scarce.
>>47489893
That's not funny, my grand-aunt died to rabies.
>>47489981
What was it?
>>47490018
Howirrelevant.
![138[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bfue9WF.jpg "138[1].jpg")
>>47490053
Karona. I feel like Wizards might be jewish enough to stick her in a FTV or ___ Masters set but I'm not waiting. Besides, I like her old card's design.
Are there any decent tutor on a stick commanders that are not Zur?
So what are the best or alternate win conditions for Azami other than lab maniac combo? Some of the decks I've seen look like if that gets disrupted then you're on the wizard beatdown plan.
I'm also worried that if I manage to do that combo too much the rest of the playgroup will get frustrated with it.
>>47490148
Black Sidisi, Captain Sisay, Momir Vig.
>>47490170
Those 3 are good and you can't forget Yisan either
There's also zirilan who I would call "decent", and scion of the urdragon
>>47490160
You can win in many different ways
Riptide lab/deadeye navigator/Cloudstone curio/equilibrium+ archaeomancer + turnabout/time warp
Deadeye navigator + venser shaper savant + mana doublers is pretty much game
Ghostly flicker + archaeomancer + venser + mana doublers can be game over as well
Infinite mana + capsize
You can also do rite of replication based wincons but I think the others I mentioned slide more neatly into a wizard based deck
>>47490148
There's general Tazri, who is playable
And then there's sliver overlord, and slivers > allies
>>47490160
Another thing you can do is just be full control/card draw and let the win sort itself out
At a certain point you'll have so much mana and cards that there's nothing your opponents can play and you can win implicitly by beating down with 2/1 wizards, I say implicitly because presumably your opponents will scoop long before you actually have to swing at them 10 times with your wizards
>>47490160
Mind Over Matter, you now have access to every card in your deck.
>>47490367
Sure but the simplest thing to do once you have mind over matter Azami is to draw lab man and win instantly
>>47490350
Silvers are better overall but there are a few neat combos you can pull with Allies to win the spot.
>>47482057
Yes, both counters cancel each other out, but keep in mind that only undying or persist can resolve their respective triggers at once. That means that the creature with both abilities ETBs with a -1/-1 counter and +1/+1 counter every other time.
That means that the creature will trigger only persist or undying on death.
So, I just put together a Rafiq deck, and I seem to have miscalculated how high of a threat everyone considers him to be. The moment I put him down on the field I got focussed hard and brought under 10 life and kept there so I could be killed at any moment. Not to mention the removal played only to get rid of him.
So I was thinking if there's decent and reliable ways to get him haste and enough power on a single turn to punch someone out? that seems to be the only way that I'll be able to make the deck work.
>>47490366
I know some players who categorically refuse to scoop under any circumstances. I'll have a Daretti emblem out and the ability to cast Jokulhaups every turn and they'll still want to play it out.
>>47490444
You can also run counterspells to protect him, you can als diversity your threats so they can't save all their removal for just rafiq
As far as everybody at the table joining forces against you, all you can do there is hope they git gud
Surely one of the other players will take advantage of their mistake and blow them out every game that they try to focus on only you
And if no other player is good enough to do that, then you have to concede that they were right to focus fire on you
>>47490493
That seems weird
It's natural for my opponents to be skeptical if I'm merely explaining that I have them locked out of the game
But after a couple turns of futility they give up
>>47482355
Not that guy but
>playing with a bunch of retards who base threat assessment on who hurt their feelings the most
Is essentially what I have to go through with my playgroup. With the exception of the other vet, no one else in the group understands threat assessment.
I'll roll for who to fuck with for the exact reason that nobody gets pissy and whiney about muh targeting. Leaving it to chance is the only thing they see as fair. Because otherwise one or two actions can and will get our table turned against you, regardless of what anyone else is doing.
For me and the other vet, sometimes it's either you can try to win, or you can keep the migraines at bay.
>>47490569
It's an issue I have with players I taught how to play. I showed them that sometimes it's worth it to keep going when the game looks unwinnable if you still have an out. But you have to know what that out is, and it has to be reasonable. Like, in that situation, against an emblemed Daretti blowing up everything every turn, I could keep playing towards something like land, mox, stony silence, hope they don't have a Chaos Warp in hand, work my way back into the game from there. It's a long shot but it's possible.
The problem is they don't know the game and their decks really well so they'll sometimes keep playing a game that's completely lost, thinking "I might still have an out" but without knowing what that out actually is. If you can't see the path to victory, just fucking concede.
>>47490493
The reason I do this is because if they know their win condition isn't fun to play out, then why would they use that win condition?
>>47490793
The win condition of a stax deck isn't the manland or the random artifact dork they hit you with, it's the lockdown. You're just keeping playing a game you already lost thinking you're somehow making a point. Well you're only hurting yourself: you're the one no longer able to get any traction in the game, the stax deck is still doing things. You're prolonging your suffering just to give yourself a better reason to whine that the opponent's deck is unfun.
You're like those idiots in Standard from a couple years ago who were empty-handed with no board and still wouldn't concede after the second Sphinx's Revelation.
>>47490793
>be in cage match
>opponent has you in a solid armlock
>refuse to tap out until he breaks your arm to try and make him feel bad about his victory
Smart.
>>47482624
Pure combo is better in my experience, as they tend to run multiple different combos, as control decks run maybe 1 or 2.
So, obviously the combos are easier to disrupt.
So far the most effective way in my experience is non-permanent combos, such as storm decks.
>>47490928
I agree with that
Permanent based combos are fragile in multiplayer, storm is a lot harder to stop because a huge amount of their disruption doesn't help them
>>47490513
Oh, absolutely someone takes advantage of it while just putting down defensive lands and other stuff and smashes the rest in the moment they stop attacking me I've been kingmaker a few times because of this though, and still manage to take one one or two with me.
And I'm generally opposed to blue ickiness out of principle (I think I have a total of 3 mono blue cards in the entire deck. Aqueous form, Rhystic study and Spin into myth), but yes, I was thinking that if this kept up for a few weeks I might have to put in a few counterspells.
>>47490907
Cagematches are inherently competitive. EDH is a casual format.
>>47490863
And I already have a great reason to whine that the opponent's deck isn't fun. The deck is so not fun that even the person running it doesn't want to keep playing. Every action in game should be fun. It may not be fun for everyone, but it should be fun for someone. That's the whole point of playing the game.
Personally, I like hitting people with manlands or dorks. Whenever people concede to that, I wonder if I fucked up my deck and didn't build it right.
Yesterday, I was playing Lyzolda and just hitting people with her and some goblins. Pepple conceded, because somehow, a few goblins, a Lyzolda with Deathtouch and a Dictate of Erebos is just too much to handle for that meta. I will now not play Lyzolda against those players, because it clearly wasn't fun for them.
>>47490863
If you came to the table to make everyone give up or watch you masturbate then by god I'm going to make your ass sit there and finish the show.
>>47490996
You sound like an enormous faggot surrounded by even faggotier fags
>>47483390
Of course, since a physical card does commander damage on combat damage no matter who it's attacking.
I mentioned the card itself, because it deals commander damage even though it's Lignified for example.
>>47490996
I think the main issue is you fail to recognize that there more ways to lose a game of Magic than dropping to 0 life. A game isn't only lost when everyone is lost, a game can be lost if you simply can't win anymore. If you were playing Burn in Modern, would you keep playing out a game against someone who just achieved infinite life and who has more cards in library than you? You haven't technically lost yet but you'd be a retard to not concede.
>>47491012
I came to the table to try to play a game of attrition against players who'll try to pressure me and stay ahead of my attrition measures. That's no less valid a playstyle than control, combo or aggro, Magic doesn't have to be limited to turning creatures sideways or entwining Tooth and Nail.
>>47491027
I don't play competitive formats, that's the point. If my goal was to have more opportunities to win, then yeah, I'd concede. Obviously, you don't want to go to time just because you refused to concede a game if you have a chance of winning the post sideboard games. But I play EDH for the sake of playing EDH. Sure, I could get more games of EDH in by conceding, but shuffling, mulliganing and getting a game going is the worst part of EDH by far.
I like grindy games. In fact, I LOVE a grindy game when every little bit of life matters. Slow games are my life. Why? Because that means I get to play more, see more of my deck, etc. But there's a reason all my win conditions are disruptable, because if there's even a smidgen of hope in people, the game is a lot more fun for everyone.
>>47491022
Thanks, baby.
>>47491012
I respect your right to watch me masturbate but you should understand that I'm having more fun masturbating than you are watching me. So who are you really punishing here?
I've been playing Mikaeus-control (board wipes + big boys, essentially) all year, and I wanna brew something new.
Fun commanders that aren't black? Preferably something with lots of options.
Hey guys, I've never played commander and I'm lookin to build a cheap deck to test the format. I'm thinking about building something with Teysa, envoy of ghosts. Are there any cards under $2 that you guys can reccomend?
>>47491205
Depends what you want to do... something 3-coloured for the options I'd guess?
>>47491205
Build stupid interactive quizmaster Sphinx tribal with bad girl oldschool Isperia at the helm!
Enable your clairvoyance with bounce spells and cards like Telepathy, Gitaxian Probe, Wandering Eye and more bounce spells.
Have the whole table join in on fun guessing games with cards like Sphinx Ambassador, Sphinx of Uthuun, Conundrum Sphinx, Master of Predicaments, Dawnbreak Reclaimer, Plea for Power, Fact or Fiction and Jace, Architect of Thought.
Don't forget to have a notebook nearby to write down all the cards in hands that you see!Or you could just be a boring fuck and tutor up Avacyn at the first opportunity.
>>47491208
Why not just by a precon?
Super duper secret tech for ezuri claw of prograss ? All I hear it that the deck builds itself but I feel like my friends are just wrong.
>>47490148
See >>47491651
I'm honestly suprised people don't talk about Isperia more often.
>>47491651
>>47491856
this actually interests me. ill be looking into this
>>47491856
It's a shit card for faggots.
![196[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4i6bAxJ.jpg "196[1].jpg")
>>47491651
>quizmaster tribal
I hope you're running Liar's Pendulum.
>>47492111
Bad idea with Wandering Eye.
Just got involved in the most cancerous game I have ever been in. Might as well go home and tell my group to fuck off.
Post your mostfungame winner combos.
>Mikaeus + Altar of Dementia + Puppeteer Clique
>>47492441
My Naya Lifegain deck that I am trying to build >>47489687
Uses Searing Meditation and Tarmonoa to let you shotgun stuff and gain life.
>>47492249
Tell us about it.
>>47492504
Nothing worth noting. I was playing mimeoplasm, opponents were narset, karador, and teysa. So I probably deserved it but whatever
I'm fucking sick of my friend constantly sorining me to 10 for cheap wins.
First I stuck in sone antiplaneswalker cards but that has just saved me a few times, i still get killed by it and it makes me salty as fuck.
So what are some cards I can use to give him a taste of his own faggotry? I'm thinking feldar sovereign and serra ascendant, but more cheesy cards that don't scale well with 40hp would be nice.
>>47492765
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A30&v=card&s=cname
Eh?
![39[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/s3mQDje.jpg "39[1].jpg")
![56[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RSBAgi0.jpg "56[1].jpg")
![12[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EZWfuUc.jpg "12[1].jpg")
