How do we fix turn based tabletop combat?
>>47334475
Dynamic initiative like Traveller does
you can make reactions like dodging attacks, diving for cover, or parrying but you lose 2 initiative next round only and become -1 to everything you do for each reaction.
You can also boost initiative next turn by using leadership skills, or boost the whole parties initiative at the start of a combat using the Tactics skill.
>>47334740
Yeah, I've been thinking something like that too. But there should be a software that would keep track of who's turn is it, since the math can get bit too complicated for GM to handle.
>>47335190
>needs soft to think for him when tokens work just fine
>>47334740
I'm interested, what are some other dynamic systems?
>>47335662
Dungeon World just gives the turn to whoever wants to take a turn right now.
Monsters are designed to be reactive - they attack you unless you make a great melee roll against them.
If it doesn't immediately make sense that a player character can act at a certain point in time, monsters tend to get a turn, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
I'm simplifying pretty heavily.
I'm also not saying DW is going a great job of it or anything, but it's a sort of odd way to do "dynamic" initiative without any explicit tracking.
It's just important to keep in mind that it's the GM, and secondarily the group, who determine if a turn can happen, because nothing is allowed to happen if it doesn't completely make sense... So some sort of vague turn order like structure tends to emerge. But sometimes some characters act a lot and others not at all.
>>47334475
Guild Ball does it pretty well. Alternating activations, and at the start of each new round you roll initiative again, the winner being the first player for that round.
this picture is amazing
>>47334475
I want to make a more action oriented system that has 3 kinds of time windows. Those don't follow a turn sequence, think about them as three kind cases that can happens dynamically. Each one leads to different kinds of actions or different kinds of exchanges.
-one where the action phases of some characters (player or enemy) basically coincide.
If those coincide with one or more enemies, there are can be rapid exachanges of blows/blocks/parries/other kinds of actions, consuming the pv gauge.
If those phases coincide with one or more allies', they can do rapid coordinated attacks. This applies to group of enemies as well.
-one where the action phases are totally disconnected, the characters act like they do in the usual turn basedsystem.
-one where the character action phase is a little out of phase, or a little ahead or a little later than the one of another character. For example, if the character gets attacked during this kind of time window, he can try to parry (if its phase is a little later), or a he can try a counterattack (if its phase is a little ahead than the attacker's).
The actions of the characters can influence the action phase of the other character, the most basic example is a poweful stunning attack which set to zero the action phase of an enemy.
The main problem is that I haven't found a concrete system to apply that. I thought about giving each character a sort of short ATB gauge, but I don't think it's a good idea, the gm should constantly time and value them to make it work dinamically.
Sorry for such a crappy explaination, but I would like to read what you guys think about it.
>>47334475
I liked Ironclaw for this, 2nd edition specifically
You're allowed to take your actions in whatever order is optimal and there's no tracking of initiative, which is great because the combat system demands cooperation and often strategic formation
Called actions don't need to be specific, you can cut your turn 1 action short to interrupt with one action literally any time
Attacking provokes a counter attack that's resolved in the same roll, so most martial combat resolves 2x faster
Or you can choose to dodge or parry, and the advanced rules limit your counter,dodge,parry to one each per round so both attacking and defending opens you up
Your damage and attack rolls are combined, and the damage track is short with is own +damage modifiers
Getting hit, even 0 damage, puts you off balance and future attacks get a bonus die against you until you recover
Since the damage track is so short with it's own deathspiral, that bonus means teamwork can overcome pretty much anything, plus flanking bonuses being upgradable skills
There's minor rules for footwork, shifting combat along and bonuses for when the opponent can't retreat
On the whole, I think it broke up most of the problems I had with turn based combat without being too complex or slowing it down.
Then there was the 1st edition Ironclaw
>>47338663
which had an interesting idea they scrapped:
Actions themselves have ranked initiatives
They did it kind of like what you're describing. There's a reason they dropped it for the no-initiative no-order-ranks of the 2nd edition though. It's confusing as hell unless you're very familiar with the system. A lot of oldfags who played the 1st edition since the 90's and patched it up really, really hated the 2nd edition 4chan seems to like since they got rid of this.
>>47334475
How do we make a viable gondola combat system?
>>47339256
Thanks man, I will check both editions.
>>47339328
>gondola combat system
Is your caimpaign called "Aria: The Total Badasses"?
>>47339553
>tfw I've never finished season 2
>>47334475
It's perfectly fine as it is in systems where you can roll to dodge or parry after your opponent succeeds their hit roll on you and vice versa.
>>47334475
Sword Path Glory sort of doenst have turns.
Game turns are 1/12 of a seconds.
Each action cost X amount of turns based on character stats, skills and items.
You sell you are going to do some action, and then after X turns, you actually do it
>>47335662
Shadowrun 4e does.
>>47335996
Tell me more about Guildball. Is Steamforged's game design team actually good?
>>47342620
So GURPS?
>>47335190
do you not own a dry erase marker?
>>47335842
That's not dynamic, that's a fake system that favours who screams louder at their "turn". Shy players will sit quietly and wait till the GM remember thet exist, even if they have something or are capable of ending the encounter in an interesting manner.
>>47343796
Is GURPS the only well known game to do that? I played a Rifts oneshot that seemed to work the same way.
>>47334475
RuneQuest
Combat is broken into actions and reactions fueled by action points. Each round players take 1 action per turn and can make reactions until all AP is spent. This means that conserving AP can mean unanswered strikes, and there are many times you just want to risk taking a hit to get that extra attack.
It's a much better turn based system than the standard.
>>47335662
Feng Shui 2 has a really neat system of initiative, I think. It works on a counter, where more complicated actions or constant defensive actions means it takes longer for your next turn to come up.
>>47346087
All the Warhammer 40k RPGs do the same thing.
>>47334475
You might be interested in Nechronica's combat system.
Combat in it is split into Rounds which are then further split into Counts. Counts are essentially the turns of the system, and the Count you start on is determined by your maximum Action Points. In every Count whoever is on that Count value attacks at the same time, with each attack decreasing your Count value by different amounts, for example if say on Count 10 one person used an Anti-Tank Rifle (Cost 4) and another used a Flamethrower (Cost 2) the person that used the rifle wouldn't move again until Count 6 while the flamethrower one would move on Count 8.
Of course, that's not to say you're unable to do anything until your count comes again, since any attack that works as a Rapid action can be used no matter the count as long as your own count is above 0, although each rapid can only be used once per turn. So if you were about to take a really nasty attack you could declare your own rapid attack in response in hopes of being able to stop whatever was aimed at you.
My explanation probably isn't doing the system justice because I'm complete ass at explaining things, but I would definitely suggest giving it a look because as a system it's pretty great and it's a shame that more people don't play it because some people end up turned off by their initial impression.
Here's a link for it if you are curious. http://tlwiki.org/index.php?title=Nechronica
Make turns only 10 seconds long or you get skipped, you either can use your turn talkin' or fightin' but you probably don't have time for both.
>>47344220
Since when were sticky notes not good enough?
>>47346959
This is the exact thing used in:
Albedo (1988)
HERO (1989)
and a handful of others I don't know off the top of my head.
It works, but:
Charts. That is all.
>>47345254
>That's not dynamic, that's a fake system that favours who screams louder at their "turn".
Woah you're right, if only we had some sort of person empowered with the ability to direct the game and put a halt to such antics, perhaps a master of the game who could directly ask players what their characters are up to when they have faded too far into the background in an effort to direct the action to them
That sounds really complicated though
Best option I've seen for wargaming is to use cards and draw out unit activations in random order. If you don't like that you could also implement a skill based turn system where the best units either go first or last depending on how you want them to react.
My system seems to resemble Dungeon World's system a little (but I didn't even know about the system before this thread), but it "ensures" that everyone gets a turn.
Initiative is based on every stat. More specifically, the stat the character attempts to use this round.
If a character "chooses" strength as their stat (you don't really choose it, the amount of actions you have is just determined from your first action and its stat), they have their strength-stat amount of actions this turn. HOWEVER, the actions must be STRENGTH-actions, not just any actions. If they desire to use different stats, they have to dedicate the rest of the turn for it or use a rush action where multiple actions of different stats are used in succession.
Initiative is yell first, do first, but because everyone has a set amount of actions, and the game is divided to rounds, everyone gets to do stuff.
Still haven't playtested it so I can't say whether it's good or not.
>>47349565
>>47346959
Wait, almost.
Nechronica doesn't require a chart. Just found the PDF.
HERO, you'd get the counts you can act on dictated by a chart for your given speed. Plays out like action points corresponding to a count-down, but you still had to consult a chart which was shitty for flow.
