Salt Mines Of Sul Edition
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
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Latest Errata
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Steamroller Rules
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The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
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Table of contents for all NQ issues
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Abridged Lore
gargantuans abridged:http://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc
Exigence abridged: http://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv
devastation abridged: http://pastebin.com/KxkzfnXj
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
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there's salt in them thar mines
>>47321109
>Thats why venethrax can collect souls off of people he kills, right?
Not anymore. His mk2 feat is now an ability on his sword so every model he kills in melee is removed from play.
>>47322865
So will they come out with a new edition of the RPG to correspond with the new rules?
Really don't think PoM players should be salty, seems like they came out just fine so far.
>>47322865
what factions do you play, not just own but actually play?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10138678 (embed)
J. Soles here (prove that it isn't)
Someone on twitter showed me what some of you have been writing about me and, honestly, some of it was flabbergasting. So after a good laugh (and a little Fernet) I came here to tell you off.
@47320686
Unnecessarily homophobic, but accurate. We don't need to be friends, just buy the games.
@47320710
Witty and funny? Talented? Are you familiar with Unhallowed Metropolis, the gas-mask chic role-playing game of Neo-Victorian horror?
@47320790
sigh
These are the kinds of childish insults I expected when I signed up for a Fourchan.
I'll leave you all to your toxic thinking and vehement hostility.
Ciao
>Harbinger still FOCUS 10
>Still has Purification
>PoM players somehow still find it possible to whine
wew!
>>47322910
Agreed. Their jack support got some nerfs but jacks overall should be better. It won't be just Reckoner and done.
>>47322905
Nope. They've stated that the RPG will continue seperately and won't be getting official changes based on the new edition either. Which honestly I think is a good plan on the 1st part and a terrible idea on the 2nd.
>>47322931
Skorne spoilers please :^)
>>47322931
fuck off leftist faggot
>>47322931
>signed up for a Fourchan.
So close.
>>47322931
>>47322931
Fix your fucking haircut
Anyone got the battlebox images saved?
>PP on Skorne and Menoth
>>47322903
If it's a cloud effect, does this mean that Venny is effectively blinding himself?
>>47323035
He already activated and hit something with a sword, he's protecting himself from being seen
>>47322931
Mr Soles, with respect, I have a question.
Why do you have such a fucking stupid haircut? You look like a giant version of the baby from Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Daily reminder that vassals are now shittier arcanists that cannot even repair.
When will PP's lust for elf cock end?
>>47322931
Don't do the whole "prove that it isn't."
It pretty well suggest you aren't him, since you're doing the whole 4chan thing.
Also, better to fill in the name field, someone who's not from 4chan is going to likely do it. Maybe not with the actual name, but at least something.
Anybody have a hold of the leaked cards? I keep hearing that they have been "posted to facebook", but I refuse to touch that website, even for sweet, sweet spoilers
>>47323168
http://imgur.com/a/QWvJG
>>47322944
not that Recky got the hard nerv bat at all. Losing assault ok give you that, but uncovering stealth and gaining an additional die on Malekus feat turn sound like a fucking strong gunline. Also Pow 15 gun instead of 13 ( 17 with choir). Can´t wait to burn down the other half of the playing field.
>>47322903
are you retarded? I was making an example of how skornergy continues to exists.
>>47323035
you know if your in a cloud you can see through the cloud, right? Even if your at max reach you can move after you attack so it just protects him.
>recently move to Erie
>two game stores nearby
>neither stock warmahordes
>both try to sell me on Magic
>mk3s a comin'
>>47323128
Elves don't have choirs denying being shot at and other bullshit. We deserve better mechanics because we're not pedos analizing little boys.
>>47323178
POW 14 now, dear anon.
>ROF 3 big aoe pretty good pow shooting
Fuck off with the PoM whining. We pretty much have to suck PP's dick to try and get AOE 4 on a ROF 1 Destroyer, if we're lucky.
>>47323237
sure, but enliven is so bad now.
You will see it cast lest often than arcane bolt at this rate, and paying 4 points just for power booster seems super lame
also
>implying most guns in the game aren't magical at this point
>>47323288
Why, because you take the hit?
I use Watcher to constantly blunt enemy charges by walking away. Trust me, taking the hit isn't that fucking big of a deal.
>>47323318
you take at least 2 boosted hits, since enliven triggers on damaged
>>47323357
And you still keep your jack.
Better than taking it's full load of damage, right?
Modeling question.
How do I make Venethrax's shoulders larger and head smaller to better reflect his art?
>>47323357
Still worth it against melee.
Still the same against shooting.
>>47323370
you take more than the full load of damage against infantry now, since they all get a free strike plus one still gets the charge.
In fact it gets even worse if any ran to engage, since now you are taking hits from models that would have no attack at all
>>47323370
Will likely take upwards of 22-24 damage from the two attacks, likely breaks a cortex and all the arms and then you cant retaliate even if you repair, better than dead, but with the new Enliven you take double the damage of what you did before.
>not using Enliven to turn around and shake dat ass at the enemy in pure mockery
plebs.
>>47323241
Oh thank you sir.
I have nearly 150 points of Menoth but i didn´t wanted deliverers and cleansers just because they sucked too hard. well i can get my threat for both units for about 40€, also Artillery will be good (again?).
>>47323288
>sure, but enliven is so bad now.
It really isn't. It's that it was so good before. Enliven is no longer a "get out of a charge free" card. It's now "Your warjack has Relentless Advance" now. Not bad, but nobody used it that way before because it was better to give the Reckoner/Vanquisher an extra shot while they ran towards the opponent.
>>47323424
>Will likely take upwards of 22-24 damage from the two attacks, likely breaks a cortex and all the arms and then you cant retaliate even if you repair, better than dead, but with the new Enliven you take double the damage of what you did before.
Or- if your jack was being marshalled by the Bastion Seneschal, just take the hit because crippled systems don't matter to you thanks to his drive.
Or, if you were hit by a ranged attack or spell, you use it to advance closer after you were damaged and put yourself in a better position to charge on your next turn.
Or you run with Severius2 and use his Oracular Vision ability to negate the free strike.
>>47323237
>not analyzing little boys so they can become badass errants.
What are you? gay?!
>>47323487
>well i can get my threat for both units for about 40€, also Artillery will be good (again?)
Yes. Artillery is basically a range 16 Vanquisher's gun.
>>47323557
I demand a meme picture with Malekus making this one hands on cheeks guy and a whole jack army in the background firing fire shots.
>>47323534
Or you repair it then empower it (with the model that used enliven the previous turn) so it still gets to slam or charge.
Or the jack has parry. Like under Amon whom has field marshal parry.
>>47323424
I'm also going to call into question
>breaks a cortex and all the arms
That's worst case scenario. Damage goes into spots randomly. It's entirely possible the cortex is left around.
Consider instead what it would be like if PP didn't make these balance passes based on testing. Imagine the Menoth jack line now with power up. On Harby. Imagine the only infantry being vassal mechaniks, vassals of menoth, and choir at full FA while you load up on jacks.
How the hell does an opponent kill anything? In a world where Skarre2's feat got nerfed. In a world where Haley2 is nerfed. Where the baseline power of casters isn't that level anymore.
I'm a little bit weirded out that Malekus' story is literally turning ultra-catholic because he got raped by protestant priests as a kid.
>>47323211
>stay away from magic its crack
>>47323691
More like a Jew who was persecuted by Christians and made up a story about 6 million children being maltreated in a school.
>>47323865
>More like a Jew who was persecuted by Christians and made up a story about 6 million children being maltreated in a school.
Or a bunch of heretical Jews getting persecuted by pagans and becoming Christians.
>>47323924
Please don't let them become Christians. I like Christmas.
>>47323865
nebber forget stryker and the 6 gorillion my brudders
>>47324038
It's amazing how well this works.
>>47323691
Pfff you don´t know what ultra catholics are. Thank god they are always kicked in the ass by the inquisition. The SJM are would even put the protectorate too shame.
>>47324067
"A German term for “lightning war,” blitzkrieg is a military tactic designed to create disorganization among enemy forces through the use of mobile forces and locally concentrated firepower."
HMM.
HEY WRITER GUY WHO HAD TO WORK WITH MIKE RYAN.
How did you come by the opportunity? Did you just send a bunch of your work in to PP? I've never seen them actually put up notices for writers or anything, they seem like a pretty tight group that relies on a bunch of familiar writers.
>>47324096
Cyg Hailey "mein Freund".
Need a picture with Stryker + raised right arm. preferable with an 45° angle.
>>47323023
Skorne has so much design space for them to release a new model that's actually good.
The only heavies that are even worth using now are the sentry and soldier. I love how the giant weird bugs are higher def than titans now.
>>47324153
I wonder if making Stryker3 with a Nazi banner would be taken well at game stores.
I haven't been here since the initial mk3 craze, has any info about my beloved assault kommandos come out?
>>47324309
Since they're an expensive metal unit, I expect nothing but buffs for them. That's been the biggest trend I've spotted. Like with Skorne, the best combo revealed is Rhadeim + Ferox, which is a combo that costs $120. While all the plastic kits became hot garbage.
>>47324300
I want Stry3r in BDSM-Pony outfit, including ball-gag, with Kr3oss sitting on top.
The amount of butthurt would be great.
>>47324351
That would be nice. I should really get around to painting my flamethrowers.the jack changes have made my MoW kovnik seem a little better, too
>>47324404
MoW kovnik is kinda pointless for marshaling though. Assault on rat 4 is basically a non-drive.
But I'd still bring him as a combat solo that can desperate pace winter guard and slam light jacks and beasts.
>>47324421
F I E L D G U N
I
E
L
D
G
U
N
>>47324421
I mostly just take him because he has an axe-cannon and is a MoW without needing a full MoW unit.
sometimes his Destroyer gets things done too
>>47324445
Good point, my rat 5 knockdown will surely fix my rat 4 problems.
>>47324188
Def 12 titans made sense to me, because while they're huge, they're fucking muscular. I can see them moving quickly compared to a giant machine.
>>47324497
The muscles were factored into the armour. Muscles absorb hella impact force you know, and when your skin is resistant to cutting, the muscles gotta absorb that force.
What I'd like to know is whether or not the Cyclops Raider is now the worst model in the faction. I'm talking Mk2 eMorghoul before his good tier list levels of bad.
>>47324486
And Kovnik Joe?
>>47324525
It's good for keeping Eiryss in check :^)
>>47324525
So now they have lower armor and def and their animus is worse. Are they gonna be full DYEL mode like the despoiler or some shit? Fuck I'm salt.
>>47324561
I don't think the Raider's armour is being lowered. They've just removed the only reason you ever used one. Just give it RAT2 or something holy shit.
FUCK
Why did eSkarre get nerfed so hard.
Fucking +5 def, just knock it down with the huge number of ways, no perdition, no steady for satyxis models, black spot costs 3
that's horseshit, she wasn't tought, was terrible in the tournament scene
>>47324544
(Maybe.)
The hit isn't certain.
>>47324588
Cry more Cryx baby
I hope Cylena and the Nyss get nerfed.
They're far too popular; especially in Denny1 lists.
>>47324588
Can't spell Cryx without Cry.
>>47324588
>DEF 15 Krakens
k.
>>47324600
>>47324633
>>47324658
she entirely lost her purpose in the game while Cryx was always an army that had better casters to make up for the rest.
With all the nerfs there is no threat
>>47324588
>Cryx thinks this is a bad caster
She's great. Her feat is amazing defensive tech, she can drop incredible debuffs on shit, she can get the best out of her troops... she's a great caster, she's just not Cryx Level Good anymore, because Cryx Level Good no longer exists.
Which is good, because Cryx was bullshit.
Keeping crying, though.
>>47324683
Shh, just accept it
>>47324588
Black Spot works on melee now though.
>>47324683
It may have been a response to the 30 bane lists.
>>47324683
>Cryx was always an army that had better casters to make up for the rest.
You mean make up for the bullshit mechanitrhalls, banes, solos, and bile thralls?
>>47324720
Black Spot always worked on melee you idiot
>>47324683
>Cryx was always an army that had better casters to make up for the rest.
'The rest' being cheap, hard-hitting infantry with tons of special abilities and very often the ability to come back after death?
Fuck off mate, Cryx had the best infantry in the game AND the overall best 'casters in the game.
>>47324727
that's pSkarre
![worlds-smallest-violin[1].jpg~c200.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rhmVkpY.jpg "worlds-smallest-violin[1].jpg~c200.jpg")
>>47324683
Here's what I, a Skorne player, think of a Cryx warcaster being unusable.
>>47324742
Oops. I always confuse Pirate Queen and Queen of the Broken Coast.
>>47324588
She never gave Steady to Satyxis. That was the Raider Captain. She had Inspiration [Satyxis], which doesn't exist anymore because fleeing is gone.
>>47324727
>nicebust.jpg
>>47324614
Def 14 and hunter no longer ignores forests.
Innate CRA and Cylena grants Hunter now.
1" reach.
Cost 12/19. (Which is actually a PC reduction as they are 7/10 now. So basically 6/9.5)
Looking like their real balance factor is other shooty units that competed with them getting cheaper.
>>47324421
Between freezes, fire for effect, sings and portents, aoe scatters and clam powerattacks Khador has enough ways to fix the rat 4. If worst comes to worst kovnink can slam the target himself.
The bigger problem I see with assault on Khador jacks is that our jack melee is better than jack guns. If you're charging you want more pow 19 axe hits, not pow 15 shooting.
The only way I see assault being useful is demolisher dishing out an additional pie plate on charge. Whic is still kinda gimmicky.
>>47324756
She's not even unusable.
In mkii she'd have been pretty good, even. Cryx are just spoiled babbies used to having 'mediocre' casters that outperform the best of most factions and 'good' casters that are obviously, ridiculously unbalanced.
>>47324740
We made up for it for having trash jacks except our cheapish arc nodes (talking MK2) and stacked kraken lists
>>47324865
You made up for it by not taking those jacks...
I'm kind surprised the general POW of most heavy 'jack/beast weapons didn't go down. Or they didn't get more HP. Didn't PP say they didn't want these things onerounding each other most of the time?
It would probably have been a good idea to lower all heavy melee attacks by 2POW, but give them universal rule where they get +3 POW against small and medium based models. That would make warbeasts/jacks last longer and also make them hurt small stuff more.
>>47324865
It doesn't matter how good or bad your jacks are when you aren't being forced to bring them.
>>47324865
Your 'jacks are good, faggot. They're comparatively fragile, but they tear shit up.
You didn't take them because your infantry was miles better.
With a few rare exceptions, Cryx in mkii did not have bad models. It had good models and bullshit amazing models.
>>47324846
>>In mkii she'd have been pretty good,
Am I the only one with nightmares of...well...unkillable nightmares in MK2? I had a buddy that ran her with two wraith engines. They'd pop out of incorporeal and then gain feat. Next turn they'd be back in incorporeal. It was infuriating.
Having actually played against Skarre2 I am not surpised and offer no pity over that feat. It was overshadowed by various assassination shenanigans (molik kharn) or other crazy defensive feat (Haley2 your entire army shits itself for a turn). Yet it was an absolutely brutal feat to face that offered very little counter play.
New feat looks strong but actually fair to the opponent. Which is why cryx players are crying. Because they are not used to having fair things.
>>47324888
Can't do that with PP ramming our shitty jacks down our throats now can we? Honestly this is the only problem i have with cryx is that we have shit jacks but infantry and infantry support to over come that, it almost feels like league of legends style meta forcing that's killing the game for me
>>47324897
Jacks aren't going to be one rounding each other as much because lots of damage buffs have been removed. Even more MAT/RAT buffs have been removed, making whiffing more likely. And repairing will generally be easier.
If you want to throw resources at wrecking a heavy, it's more than possible, but it's not so much a given that any heavy that gets charged is going to be out of the game.
>>47324917
16's don't "tear shit up"
>>47324865
>having trash jacks
>Nightmare
>Deathjack
.....what? I mean not all of them where good and I'm glad you guys are getting buffs to some of them. But seriously? With the debuff theme a lot of your jacks one round other heavies.
More of them then you'd think are pretty good. As for the arc nodes. They got cheaper in MK3 for a reason and I'm happy Cryx has arc node spam again in a way that's more fair. (I oddly miss the cat and mouse game of murdering arc nodes to keep myself safe)
>>47324888
This guy gets it.
>>47324938
>make them hurt small stuff more.
Your jacks aren't shitty anymore.
>>47324153
>Cyg Hailey
okay this got me good
>>47324942
Really? I haven't done the math, but it feels like your average heavy with three focus and a POW17-18 melee weapon can still turn a fellow heavy to scrap pretty easily.
But hey, we'll see.
>>47324837
That's why the rager could end up being useful. It assaults for free and then can use crush It just has the problem of not being used for a shield guard in that case.
But really any way to give them a charge and still crush is a good deal. It's just that those ways also make BG jacks more efficient, too.
Also, kovnik can only slam medium bases. Are you sending a 16 points khador ranged jack and a 5 point solo to take down an 8 point light jack?
>These Cryx tears
Now we can bitch about a new faction every thread.
Praise be to Kossk!
>>47324918
her feat couldn't affect huge base models
>>47323691
I found it kind of interesting
>>47324962
For their cost they fucking do.
And they'll never be hitting and 16 anyway, not with debuffs: the faction.
>>47324918
yes because what your friend did was impossible
>>47324918
That's actually illegal.
However, her feat could be used to great effect.
>>47324977
Wait, why is kovnik slamming only medium bases? He slams anything in mk2, large bases just get pushed less.
>>47324888
The truly sad thing about Mk. III is that now I can't feel like a special snowflake for taking 'jacks when I play Cryx.
Faction is ruined PP why
>>47324846
Are you kidding me? Are you talking about Skarre2? If the captain did what she did she can't be knocked down. Keep the lady 9 inches away. Do you know how annoying a def 15 colossal that you can't charge is? Or making their colossals mat and rat 1? Their casters effective magic 2 to 3 in most cases? Our jacks go up to def 18 man! And she still has admonition. I think she will be just fine. Are their ways around these thing sure. Most of which require a lot of work worth much more than the jacks point cost.
>>47325039
it's all good, you get to be the special snowflake who stayed with the faction instead of moving on to the new hotness instead now
>>47324976
Most Heavies are sitting at around 10 to 12 DEF and Mat 5 or 6. Hits on average dice, but also misses a little under half the time too.
At Pow18 vs armor 18, give or take a point higher or lower, and average dice, you'd need to land about 4-5 hits, each of which deal 7-ish damage to total a heavy.
You usually get 2 initials-one of which was your charge initial and 2 bought attacks. That's assuming you never boost to hit or damage and only purchase more attacks.
>>47325034
Yeah, you're right. I thought it also didn't get knocked down, but it's just half distance and a penalty to the attack roll.
>>47324976
Don't forget to factor in the A+H change. There's been a crunch on stackable buffs/debuffs to shift the damage rolls.
>>47324962
...You forget the fact that it's x2 initials at 16s and x1 12. In comparison to other profiles similiar to the Slayer which while having 1 weapon with higher Pow have another with a lower.
Compare it to the new Nomad. P+S 18 P+S 14. vs P+S 16 P+S 16 P+S 12.
Those damage profiles are close enough that you can't claim one tears shit up and the other doesn't.
But you know what? That's STILL only part of it. Slayer is also MAT 7 baseline and Def 13. Know what def 13 means? MAT 6 attacks are a coin toss without boosts. Whiffs against Juggernauts don't happen often but they are common enough against Slayers.
And that STILL doesn't take into account how much armor debuff Cryx has. Look at the new caster. She can do a -5 to arm on her own (darkshroud + parasite). Having 3 initial attacks for some sacrifice of P+S is better when you have debuffs like that.
Oh how about the fact the Slayer is speed 6? Have you paid any attention to other warmachine factions? Do you know how jelly people get over that spd6?
But no
>16's don't "tear shit up"
Let's just ignore everything else and look at base pow of the basic heavy. Let's ignore the Deathjack and the Nightmare. Let's ignore Combo Strike (note me not mentioning it). It's all about that Arm 17 and P+S 16.
This is why nobody is consoling cryx players. Any of them that are worth their salt expected nerfs of this magnitude.
>>47324992
That's an errata change. I was recalling from before that change. Still plenty of nasty large bases that she could feat.
>>47325104
do you know what ARM 17 with a terrible box layout is?
>>47325092
I see what it is, I was conflating it with headbutts which can't target a larger base.
>>47325086
I'm actually going to be taking this opportunity to get some Cryx. They're not a toxic influence anymore, and I can run more of their sexy warjacks now.
The spoiled Satyxis Gunslingers sealed the deal for me. I will have my horned pirate amazon army.
>>47325133
I have freebooters. So yes. But the topic was not being able to tear shit up. When offense is the one thing Cryx jacks don't slouch in.
>>47325014
>>47325031
>>47324992
Admitting I forgot that they errata'd that. Though that means MK3 Skarre2 regained the ability to feat huge bases again.
>>47324962
Two POW16 initials at SPD6 and MAT7 are nothing to sneeze at, you absolute moron.
Yeah, Khador 'jacks hit like freight trains, but they only hit ever so often, and they often only have one weapon. Helljacks will always be putting out more consistent damage, especially considering how much dice fixing they have.
>one rounding heavies in MK3
>being this blind to the new direction of the game
wew lads, you ever stop to think why there is so much repair?
>>47325221
you only need one weapon when you buy with focus.
Cryx had to use banes for armor cracking because the jacks couldn't.
That is not worse of a problem
>>47325260
So we can just not be bothered with taking it or get taxed out the nose for the ability?
My one hope for MKIII is that character jacks don't over shadow the non-characters. I'm sick of seeing normal jacks just pushed aside for the special snowflake ones.
>>47325221
Some khador jacks hit like freight trains, anyway. The juggernaut, Ruin, and beast are at P+S 19, behemoth is 12 with armor piercing.
The rest don't hit any harder than the other factions. Spriggan and Grolar are P+S 18, Marauder, Berserker, Devastator, Demolisher, Black Ivan, Drago, and Kodiak are P+S 16, Destroyer and Decimator 17.
>>47325302
Ruin is 18, not 19.
>>47325302
18 is the highest in my entire faction
>>47325299
most of what's been shown is character jacks being good but only being really good with their bonded caster/lock
>>47325373
Which is really how it should be. I hated Thorns design in MKII where any spell slinger wanted him over a normal lancer as he could yoyo out of danger over and over.
>>47325275
POW16 can crack ARM fine enough.
Most warjacks are ARM18. Dice -2 is not bad by any means. Especially when you factor in that this is Cryx, and you can easily be dropping your target's armour by 3. And you have two initials that are likely to hit. And you can buy more, or boost.
Slayers could very easily turn heavies to scrap in mkii. Banes were just better at it.
>not one rounding things
>>47325428
power 16 can't put a dent in normal khador jacks.
Math has a normal Khador jack beating a cryx jack
Any Skorne leaks? I wanna know what happened to the Ardus Soldier/Scarab Swarm
>>47325364
17 was my highest. Now it's 18.
>>47325275
...you sound like someone that only ever ran bane spam because they where to afraid of losing.
>you only need one weapon when you buy with focus.
+2 best weapon attacks regardless. Only in MK2 that MAT 7 makes bought attacks more reliable to hit against other jacks then other chassis.
How about the advantage of two open fists for throws? Which is helped by high base MAT and SPD?
The Slayer went down in cost for a reason in MK3 but even it wasn't pillowfisted MK2. It hit hard just fine in Cryx.
Trick is nobody was bringing their non-character heavies.
>>47325465
>power 16 can't put a dent in normal khador jacks.
POW 16 on 2d6 averages 3 damage against ARM 20.
>>47325275
No, Cryx used Banes for everything, because thats how good they where.
Cryx jacks are fine, have good speed, good enough mat, and a pow thats in line with the rest of them. On top of this they have tusks, and an armada of de-buffing serving as artillery.
So yes, they would rate pretty fucking good judging on what you pay for it, no matter how you twist and turn your argument. If you want a jack that can survive the impact, stop your bitching and play Khador, thats all I'm saying.
The only true problem here is that Cryx players have been spoiled shitless with both great casters and great infantry, that now in mk3 when everything gets its certain combat role, they don't know what to do anymore. Whats more is that most Cryx players don't know shit about how to use the jacks they got, or how good they actually are, your posts are living proof of this.
>>47325468
Well the Soldier is probably better than the Sentinel now since 1) no Snipe, and 2) no Ancillary Attack.
>>47325465
The cryx jacks also outthreat the khador jack, and cryx has more debuffs than khador has buffs. Cryx jacks and khador jacks are exact opposite. One is good def and bad armor, one is bad def and good armor. One is infantry speed and one is slow as shit. And the cryx jacks cost less.
>>47325500
I remember an argument days ago about how crazy 10 PC MK3 Slayers are and why it was the end of the world. Which is making this argument feel vaguely odd.
Anyway I agree with you here. Those two are polar opposites but both hit plenty hard. I actually think the balance of Jugg vs Slayer is looking way better in MK3. That extra point of Mat is going to make a big difference.
>>47325494
God what I wouldn't do to have Slayers for Syntherion.
Even with the nerf to Synergy it would be incredible.
It's obvious PP doesn't want a super long slugging fest, but that they do want to see more of a slugmatch between jacks. That's why there are so fewer chances to one round jacks in MK3. You can build a list around that if you want, but you'll probably only be able to take out one at a time in a new game that gives 2-3 free jacks off the get go.
Time for Khador to flex its muscles a bit. Juggers do pretty well in 1 on 1s.
In a vacuum the juggernaut will hit harder than the slayer, but all the juggernaut's got going for it is fury, S&P, and a few feats. Debuffs are better than buffs because they apply to the whole army, and parasite alone cancels out all advantage the juggernaut has. Khador also has no arc nodes.
>>47323211
Erie, PA?
>>47324098
I was at Lock and Load. At the time I was a PG and had been trying to get into an external playtest team. I went to a panel with Shick and DC and afterwards I happened to see DC and asked about playtesting. He said they weren't doing any invitations but he asked if I could write. I said yes, he introduced me to Mike.
DC was super cool to talk to, I've thought about reaching out to him at his new gig but honestly it's been a few years so it seems weird to just email him out of the blue.
>>47325494
That signpost should read MKIII at the top and SKORNE LOSER BAG pointing right.
>>47325487
and that take 12 attacks to bring down a khador jack
I bet spriggan would work well with MoW kovnik if you could boundless charge it or were using empower.
Assault, shoot a flare at the target for -2 def, get in a P+S 20 charge at effective mat 11 due to powerful charge, then a P+S 16 shield at mat 9, and another P+S 20 lance hit at mat 9.
>>47325670
Yeah. If only Cryx had some sort of ARM debuff or something.
>>47325588
I don't see how there is less one rounding jacks. Everyone pow and pow buffs stayed basically the same.
The only thing that went away is horde setups where one 5 fury overbuffed beast one rounded a colossal.
>>47325713
So Cryx is only allowed to play Asphyxious, Deneghra and Scaverous?
>>47325717
A bronzeback needed to spike pretty well to one-round a stormwall, and that's for some reason the thing everyone thinks of. Because I guess they heard about it happening once?
>>47325755
Your new caster also has an ARM debuff. Seriously, stop your whining. Cryx has plenty of tricks to deal with shit.
>>47325755
Well, you WERE only allowed to play gaspy and skarre. Sooooo
>>47325494
>Spoiled for having good infantry
We had good infantry to make up for our less than lackluster jacks. Now if you had said spoiled for having good casters and solos I would have given you the argument
>>47324600
>>47324633
>>47324658
>>47324702
Well listen, the loss of perdition is the biggest dissapointment (in my opinion) because this is suppost to be the jack edition and that was an effective way to deliver jacks safely.
Further, skarre2 is a very good caster. But she wasnt burnin up the competative scene so it just seems strange to me that they would tone her down like that. I think shes still very good
>>47324727
Wrong skarre
>Bronzeback with Xekaar
>Enrage with a Handler
>Pop feat
>Mortality the target 4 times because Marketh
>Effective P+S30
Heh, nice colossal you got there kid.
>>47325839
Spells don't stack.
>>47325827
Your warjacks were fine.
Your casters were amazing.
Your infantry were amazing.
Your solos were amazing.
Shut up and dry your eyes.
Considering, by the way, that you're the only faction that has kept a lot of their damage fixing capabilities. Everyone else is losing their spells that buff POW, whereas your debuffs remain as strong and prevalent as ever. Meaning your warjacks are now even more viable.
>>47325833
And Soul Stike is an amazing nuke for spot removal of your opponents power solos.
>>47325854
Then my LGS has a cheating faggot. P+S24 is still pretty good though. The new back strike rule could make this legit for Molik Karn. 1 less P+S but gets 1 more attack, and can sidestep behind with the new rule for guaranteed hits.
>>47325833
Like it's been said before, even the middling warcasters by Cryx standards was slightly OP by everyone else's.
Skarre2 didn't see play because you had a bunch of monstrously OP casters to choose from instead.
>>47324658
Don't forget
>That can't be charged
Giving a Colossal charge immunity is beyond insane.
>>47325487
>Vacuum, I'm in total vacuum!!!
This is exactly what pp doesn't want us to do.
Now take this example instead.
The slayer, only 10p, aims for a charge on your average Khador jack 10/20 with 34 boxes. Pre-measuring is in effect and we have superior movement, so we will get it of in this scenario.
Adding to this we have de-buffed the brute with a Parasite from Agatha (imagine we play the starter boxes here) and she popped her feat for this turn.
Now our 10p Slayer will do an average of 27+23+19, after arm has been deducted left a good 18 boxes checked on the Khador jack. That is more than half the boxes on one of the games hardest jacks!
With buffs we could be standing with a 13/19 jack to take the retaliation, but due to her Feat turn, we can also teleport back, and let the Reaper (also only 13p) take a shot with its 14" threat-range, dragging the now disengaged (feat placement of 3" from the slayer) Khador jack.
All I'm saying is, Cryx jacks are far from underpowered for the cost they pay. You just need to learn how to play a great game, instead of simply running a great list.
>>47325897
Side step doesn't prevent free strikes anymore and molik is not a very durable heavy, so you side step behind something, eat a free strike, and blow out an aspect.
>>47325873
dat ignite tho
>>47325928
>de-buffed the brute with a Parasite from Agatha (imagine we play the starter boxes here) and she popped her feat for this turn
Stopped reading right there.
>>47325948
There's still potential since he has 2" reach and lots of big targets don't.
>>47325919
Oh you, why remind me on how much I love playing Rhan, thanks!
>>47325964
That's not the way circles work, though. If you're standing at 2 inches it's pretty unlikely you're going to be able to get your base fully within his back arc because the path you have to take is much longer than if you were base to base.
>>47325928
Also lol investing 23 points, a debuff, and a feat to take down 1 jack
>B-b-b-but your jacks are fine!
>>47325980
Well you get 2 sidesteps.
>>47326004
Please find me another way of doing more consistent damage to a Khador heavy with one of the starter warjacks and their caster support.
Also, you're still thinking in a vacuum. In a larger point game her feat will be assisting with other stuff as well.
>>47325809
Notice how eSkarre has no ARM debuff at all? Still think that she's a great caster for Cryx?
>>47326054
Nope. Obviously she's pure shit. Better just throw your models away.
>>47326040
Ok battle box game investing the your 2 heavies and a feat to kill 1 jack, the debuff is a wash i suppose leaving what your caster and 1 deathripper to do what exactly?
>>47326074
Nice use of hyperbole to cover your lack of real arguments.
>>47326004
No I said, to take down one of the hardest jacks in the game.
I also put it in a setting, unless you missed that, a typical starter vs starter that was to much for this other cryx player >>47325955
to handle.
What you Cryx players needs to learn is to actually play the game, and not play a good list and with with that as a base. Now you actually have to do things like de-buff and think about placing to win games, not only spam the best units you got.
The example is a bit extreme, as the starters only contains jacks, but it gives the point that there is more than just comparing two stat-cards, thats the thing people over at the 40k threads do all the time, its called mathhammer and its stupid. Because when you stop looking at the rest of the game, for instance that Cryx is the nr1 de-buff team out there, you cant see what your units are capable of. De-buffing is part of the Cryx synergy, you take something hard, then make it weaker and then you take down your prey. It is not, solving every problem with unreasonably fast and hard-hitting Bane thralls that both have stealth, though and get up rules, to top of their already impressive armor value (to survive most blast damages out there).
But I get it, we have some butt boys from Cryx really expecting the rest of the game to feel sorry for them. Well fuck that you cunts, there is a reason why Cryx has been the top dogs in Warmahordes, and its not because it has better players out there.
>>47326085
...Who the fuck says the enemy response is going to kill both your warjacks?
It's not easy to oneround a 13/19 helljack. That DEF means he's going to have to boost to hit or very probably miss, which means less boosting for damage. And he's very likely going to have badly damaged systems by then, too.
>>47326085
deathripper blocks the far less scary jack from coming in, and then your two heavies piledrive the remaining one heavy after it's been paracite'd again.
>>47326085
Are you this retarded?
Khador's battlebox is 3 models. Using your feat to take down 1 enemy jack in a turn without any real danger to your caster and no way to respond is HUGE. If you wanted you could take your deathripper and ram it up the other heavies's ass or warcaster to stop them charging out after your heavies then 2 on 1 the next heavy or warcaster.
>>47326054
I don't think there is even a single POW+ buff or ARM- debuff in my entire faction, and very little that hits harder than Cryx stuff. And yet I manage.
Cry more.
While people are theorycrafting battlebox games, would someone mind trying Legion beating Khador?
>>47325928
Why are you only using initials in this example? You could easily have the focus for a buy or two.
>>47326180
Probably assassination or something like that. Khador robots are slow as shit, just go around them.
>>47326085
The Deathripper is obviously there to arc your de-buffs for instance.... Gosh... Do we really need to learn Cryx players stuff like this basic shit, how to use an arc node, like really? All this, only go make them understand that the core mechanics of the game isn't about bringing an over powered infantry spam.
But I get it, it will be hard as fuck for players like Cryx to learn the mk3 ways, shit will be like learning a 3 year old to ride a bike.
>>47326181
Absolutely, but Id figure id give the Cryx players here a chance to experiment this scenario for themselves. It proved to hard on them I guess, since they still hasn't figured it out.
>>47326242
To be fair, a three year old riding a bike independently is pretty damned impressive.
>>47326040
Rush on a bronzeback
>>47326291
>warjacks
>my brain on this lack of decent Khador spoilers
>>47326291
If the skorne box actually had a bronzeback it might be worth getting.
>>47326344
Our jacks are mat 7 now. Who the fuck needs more spoilers than that?
>>47326344
>lack of decent Khador spoilers
You mean spoilers like how the MoW Kovnik has Desperate Pace or that Khador jacks are getting a bump in MAT or how we already know what our new caster does, etc.
Honestly, we've gotten plenty of spoilers for Khador considering we still haven't gotten our Insider.
>>47326363
You say that like we've taken anything but a single super OP character jack or don'tcareheretobowl clams for the last 6 years.
>>47326105
That looked like sarcasm
>>47325649
Yes.
I checked out Game Corps and Gateway Games.
>>47326382
Yeah, we took those things cause the rest of our jacks sucked. Now our jacks are getting buffed which is an answer to that problem. Use your brain, fucker.
>>47326370
WEAK. Unless Desperate Pace is a free action it's terrible. I have never understood why so many people were asking for a * action to give a MOW unit +2" move. Especially on such a beefy combat solo as the MOW Kovnik.
MAT 7 is largely irrelevant, see above.
New caster spoilers were really cool, but everyone got BB spoilers. I'm not saying that wasn't great - god bless anon for that - but we could use some more faction leaks~
>>47326165
I guess you win by assassination? Like Skarre used to?
>>47326417
You think Desperate Pace is bad?
Holy shit.
>>47326412
>+1 MAT is equal to all the various character abilities
Is this real life?
>>47326417
Explain to me how mat 7 is irrelevant.
>>47326417
>WEAK. Unless Desperate Pace is a free action it's terrible. I have never understood why so many people were asking for a * action to give a MOW unit +2" move. Especially on such a beefy combat solo as the MOW Kovnik.
... U wot m8?
>>47326370
Never really got why the Khador caster was so good. Sure I get it, the new power field Caster ability is worse than in mk2, and that they have boosted all Warcasters defense power. Just look at the stats of the new box casters and judge for yourself. But how the guy with the biggest armor and robe, has not only top spd, and top arm, he also has top def? Like what the fuck? With a threat range of 13" not including side-step, he also has Weapon Master on his already impressive pow 12.
Oh wow, you guys actually think Desperate Pace is good on MOW. I am so, so sorry.
>>47326522
It's a solution for their single biggest problem. What are you, retarded?
>>47325897
>>47325839
>feat does nothing to arm and def
>still flinging spells at FURY 6
>Witchmark is useless because Mat 6
>>47326534
I don't think that giving up the activation of a 5pts model in order to give an expensive, slow unit +2" movement is a "solution" to their problem. Or rather, maybe it is a solution, but it is 1 step forward 2 steps back.
How many units of MOW are you taking? 1? 2? 5 attacks doesn't seem like much, assuming all 5 even make it in. Let's say for example someone takes 2 units of MOW, what, they are going to invest in 10pts of "SOLUTIONS"~?
I'm skeptical. MOW didn't dominate and skullfuck the meta during the League when the Kovnik had Desperate Pace before, and it won't do it now. The only way its remotely good is if it isn't a * Action.
>>47326628
So, that's a 'yes' to the retarded question.
>>47326522
I'll give you a hint, man.
Skorne runs a solo that has desperate pace all the fucking time, and he fits right into the same slot that the MoW Kovnik does.
He's a buffing solo that has late game closing ability, which makes him very good. He's not meant for the front line.
Can anyone link to/post the rest of the battle-ax spoilers? I missed that thread due to work.
>>47326663
I actually have no idea what you're talking about.
>>47326433
Hey, I'd have been taking more 'jacks if they weren't MAT 6
MAT 7 is a big deal.
Disappointed that they're still RAT 4 though, Decimator and Destroyer are staying on the shelf for now.
>>47326804
The tyrant commander is a mk2 3 point p+s 12 weaponmaster who can give units +2 speed, or pathfinder, or stand models up.
Anon, got MK3 Angelius, Zuriel, Seraph, and/or Stinger cards to share?
>>47326857
+2SPD only when making a normal advance, before he gets bitchy and says +2SPD is great in general
Anon, got any Ret card spoilers that we haven't seen yet? Destors or Hydra spoilers would be amazing.
>>47326866
That's true. Desperate pace is better than press forward because it also works on charges and runs.
>>47326803
http://imgur.com/a/5TE05
>>47326905
>http://imgur.com/a/5TE05
Muchas Gracias, mi Amigo.
>>47326857
Is that a * Action though, or just a regular "pick one of 3" type thing?
>>47326966
Does it matter? He sits in the back doing nothing else anyways.
Like, what do you expect the Kovnik to be doing in the early turns of the game?
Are you trying to put him in front of your army?
>>47326417
>Unless Desperate Pace is a free action it's terrible.
I get the feeling you've never played this game before.
>>47326898
MOW will charge 4 + 2 + 3 = 9 +2" reach for threat 11"
MOW will run 8 + 2 = 10" +2" engage for threat 12"
Now, that's not bad in and of itself, but it means the 5pts solo isn't really doing anything else that turn.
It seems likely to me that this is going to seem like BIG NEWS! and YAY MOW! but not play out as the best decision overall. It's good sure, but we could have gotten a lot better - assuming its still a * Action. The MOW are still going to pale in comparison to a variety of things like Doom Reaver Swordsmen and Iron Fang Pikemen if this is the expected dynamic.
I'm just not excited by that one particular rule. +2" isn't enough.
>>47326628
>I don't think that giving up the activation of a 5pts model in order to give an expensive, slow unit +2" movement is a "solution" to their problem
What else are you going to do with him? Also, 5 points in Mk3 points is 2.5 points in Mk2 points. The motherfucker actually got a discount.
>>47327035
He got a discount and gained assault. He's much deadlier now.
>>47326227
Assassination is a safe bet.
Have your Neraph and Boltthrower user Beatback and Thunderbolt respectively to scoot the Khador player's jacks into a clear charge lane with your caster plus Shredders.
Ideally you'll only need to use one of the two movers, and if you have a choice have the Boltthrower do the pushing since you only need a little bit of room to fit in some small bases and a reach caster.
If you can get good positioning with the Neraph you could also use it to scoot the caster instead of the jacks.
>>47327004
We already had the IFK which is why I'm asking about that. We already could have MOWs advancing at a decent pace in Shield Wall. I don't imagine they are going to give us Shield March and Desperate Pace now for an 8" shield wall ST move.
MOW Demo/Bombs could just run before. The 2" wasn't that big of a deal early on.
>>47327030
You're a fucking idiot.
There's more than just this going around though.
We've got desperate pace, and we've got casters with tactical supremacy, which is better in mk3. It used to be an end of turn 3 inch movement, now it's an end of activation 3 inch movement.
>>47327060
Desperate pace gives you 2 inches to your runs and charges, IFK only gave it to your shield wall. MoW kovnik means these slow shock troopers are threating 11 inches.
>>47327035
Run? Charge?
>>47327086
Run where?
Charge what?
He's a fucking late game closer.
>>47327086
>Run? Charge?
Why, though? I mean, what the fuck is the Kovnik going to do other than buff MoWs? Giving him Desperate Pace actually gives you a reason to take him now.
>>47327086
He's a finisher, he's not a front of the army kind of guy. You throw his pow 14 assault and pow 15 weaponmaster ass into something that's been weakened to kill it, which is happening the turn after he desperate paces the MOW into the fight.
>>47327077
Oh nice little note about TacSup. I didn't notice that detail, thanks!
It sounds good, but I am not sure we're going to want TacSup on a MOW unit instead of just a unit of BDIFP. BDIFP are more bodies, cheaper in pts presumably ( especially factoring Kovnik ) and probably get better net buffs off stuff like Kozlov feat. It seems like MOW are going to run up against the same old roadblock they use to - low volume of attacks, slow models, too much support needed/PC invested.
>>47327146
Which is why MoWs are getting a UA that prevents them from being moved.
Look man, MoWs are meant to kill shit, not really.
They're meant to not die.
>>47327146
MoW have the benefit of not dying to the myriad auto damage effects and being repairable and being capable of getting more than 20 ARM throughout the game instead of being limited to a single turn.
>>47327097
>late game closer
I don't think SPD 4 is going to be doing much personally in the late game. Most warmachine games end turns 3-4.
>>47327109
Presumably he'd be up close running a jack and killing stuff. I guess he could waddle around just to spam DP, but like I said I don't think that's his most effective use.
>>47327111
Like... what? I'm just trying to think of a scenario off the top of my head where this SPD4 guy is going to be relevant to what is remaining, without the game basically being over.
>>47327161
>>47327174
Right right. So it's basically going to be tankmachine. I'm not saying that might not work, I'm just saying that I'm skeptical. I've yet to see PP make stuff in WMH that is that good at playing the defensive game. They have very purposefully made things very killable in order to keep the game from being a grind.
>>47327175
>I guess he could waddle around just to spam DP, but like I said I don't think that's his most effective use.
His options are that or, as you said, "Presumably he'd be up close running a jack and killing stuff." Which is what he did in MK2 WHEN NOBODY TOOK HIM.
Desperate Pace is his most effective use.
>>47327175
>I don't think SPD 4 is going to be doing much personally in the late game. Most warmachine games end turns 3-4.
You're doing this on purpose, aren't you?
>>47327198
>I've yet to see PP make stuff in WMH that is that good at playing the defensive game.
Did you forget about Fist or MMM? They're the fucking reason most heavy infantry units have been bumped down to 5 boxes.
I'm seriously starting to think you don't actually play this game.
>>47327215
Fist was only good because of the point reduction. Cataphracts by themselves were 12/15 victim stats.
>>47327198
Did you miss ALL of the Convergence stuff?
Convergence has kept practically all of it's "Cease your pitiful attempts to hurt me" tech.
>>47327266
Furthermore, have you never played against a good Lucant list?
He's likely the best overall defensive caster in the entire game.
>>47326120
not every caster even has debuffs
The initials don't mean anything
5x 16 or 4x 19
>>47326132
it's very easy to take out systems turning it to shit in one turn
