![c9553e22f5b580bbd5d8abba38db5fc2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Hse9Lrr.jpg "c9553e22f5b580bbd5d8abba38db5fc2[1].jpg")
Why isn't the ecclesiarchy a thing in the tabletop yet? Guardsmen is it's own thing, there's plenty of named characters, they were their own thing in DoW, and they're awesome
Wouldn't their armies fall under Sisters or Grey Knights?
>>47296358
It'd be Sisters of Battle. Grey Knights aren't under the Ecclesiarchy. They're both under the Inquisition, though, along with the Deathwatch.
sisters include ecclesiarchy units. add the old chapter approved zealot units and you can field a full ecclesiarchy army
40k totally needs another human faction.
>>47296358
>>47296378
It would be primarily sisters, but not exclusively sisters. There's also be some frateris tar pits and such
>>47296336
Sisters have Ecclesiarch units, and are technically Ecclesiarchy. Also the rogue trader RPG lets you play a ministorum missionary.
>>47297687
>Also the rogue trader RPG lets you play a ministorum missionary
There are Ministorum characters in all of the 40kRPG lines anon. Even Black Crusade if you include the Apostate class.
>>47296336
Pic Related OP
I've actually been thinking about making an IG/Inquisition army themed on the frateris militia.
I was thinking of using blob guard and acolytes with chainswords + Crusaders then attaching ministorum priests to everything for army wide zealot
I'll theme the HQs as being more senior clergy
>>47296417
What would you prefer the next installment to be?
>>47298050
Them to make the game less shitty. That would be a WONDERFUL next installment.
>>47298064
Yeah well that isn't an easy way to sell models.
>>47296336
the ecclesiarchy is not allowed to hold "men of arms"
The sisters of battle are a blatant abuse of RAW
>>47296378
>They're both under the Inquisition
Not anymore. Sisters are unrelated again and GKs are kind of a weird 'Inquisition but not THE Inquisition' position.
>>47299311
An intentional abuse written in by someone who refused to play ball with the rest of the High Lords.
And the Custodes supported this RAW abuse as well.
And the Inquisition Ordo they founded solely to take care of the abuse came back and said that whilst it was clear abuse, it didn't break any rules and they were all right with it.
And the Emperor himself possibly gave them the metaphorical thumbs up as well.
By that point I don't think it really counts as RAW abuse.
>>47299311
>>47299370
The most ironic thing is that the ministorum probably doesn't even need the sisters to get shit done. All they need to do is point in a direction and declare a crusade and everyone short of the high lords (including all the pious officers in the Navy and IG) will be marching on it.
Apart from the Inquisition (and maybe the Officio Assassinorum), they are the most powerful faction within the Imperium
![NecroRedemptionistGangMain_873x627[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/00WmjMU.jpg "NecroRedemptionistGangMain_873x627[1].jpg")
>>47299412
Don't forget they also have forces under their direct control (in blatant breach of the treaty) : The crusader houses and other "bodyguards", black ops stormtroopers, schola progenium and drill abbots, and simply the occasional frateris militia when they don't care.
I'd say that the three great orders (terra, mechanicus and ministorum) are roughtly equivalent in power. If anything, one cannot function without the others.
>>47298044
Check out cadwors and redemptionists minis for necromunda.
>>47298050
ANYTHING NOT HUMAN WOULD BE NEATO
>>47298050
Sisters of Battle.
Mainly anything but Marines. As a marine player I'm sick of the constant updates, sure is fun but when you end facing marines or the same old Nid army for years its just sad.
>>47298050
Lost and Damned?
>>47298050
Lost and the Damned
Traitor Legions
Sisters of Battle
And, as op says, Ecclesiarchy.
As in, GW re-writes their fluff from time to time (Oldcrons-Newcrons), writing a Codex for fanatical, crusade like armies for religious wars wouldn't be hard at all and very into 40k in it's classic grimdarkness.
>>47299412
I'd say the Mechanicum is probably tied, unless we're not gonna count them as part of the Imperium's power structures.
>>47302129
>necron-style rewrite for sisters
I'd rather not.
(Though it would be difficult to fuck up the SoB basic premise like they did it with the necrons)
As fluff changes go, the recent DEldar codex shoud be the rule.
>>47302883
I ain't saying fluff rewrite for sisters, sisters are very cool, the idea at least, it is the way gw handled them calls for divin divine intervention.
I'm talking about rewriting the Ecclesiarchy not having any other armed forces, create some sort of Imperial, religious zealots version of Lost and the Damned amd go from there.
I'd only be into it to see designs or ideas to use in the RPG
>>47299412
Fluff wise sisters are rarely used as an actual crusading force. They rarely appear in any war of faith mentioned in the fluff, their main fluff in rulebook and codices says they are used to protect holy sites and they are a really small force to the point where some locations they do protect will have a single sister there.
>>47303606
They pretty much already do. The fluff says the Ecclesiarchy only follow the spirit of the Decree Passive which is why they have crusaders, arco-flagellants, penitent engines, death cult assassins, frateris militia and many kinds of warrior priests.
If all those units got proper rules that would be enough to create a separate army.
>>47302883
>(Though it would be difficult to fuck up the SoB basic premise like they did it with the necrons)
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
[Spoiler]Female Space Marines[/spoiler]
>>47296378
This. Sisters also have access to Missionaries, I believe, and you could fluff some cultists as Frateris Militia. Otherwise, the Sisters are their only true military force.
And they are forgotten and suck ass.
>>47304136
Wow, how'd I fuck that up?
>>47301686
I'd like to be able to keep my army decent for a few years. It seems like the moment my force is ready it begins to waver between being great and sucking as a new update or model or edition comes out.
>>47296336
>Why isn't the ecclesiarchy a thing in the tabletop yet?
>they were their own thing in DoW
They were in the game as Sisters of Battle though, who are already their own army (ironically, Soulstorm was developed and released during the period when they weren't). Their codex is digital only, their model range is online only, they haven't received any new models in over a decade, the models they do have are all metal except for the Exorcist's Space Marine Rhino chassis (and their other iconic tank, the Immolator, which actually was fully plastic, is now OOP) and a few formerly-metal Finecast minis (which only got Finecasted at all because they were also in the Grey Knights codex), thanks to the Witch Hunters codex they're still widely seen as part of the Inquisition, and they weren't even really meant to be played as a standalone army in the first place. But they are there.
On the subject of their DoW portrayal and non-Sororitas Ecclesiarchy units, Soulstorm did mention the Sisters raising a Frateris Militia from the civilians of Kaurava I. But it never went beyond a mention, so no playable Imperial cultist mobs.
>>47305749
>all metal except for the Exorcist's Space Marine Rhino chassis
You forgot the part where the Exorcist is a plastic model with a gigantic pewter organ on the back and loves to flip itself over and fall apart. It actually manages to be worse than an all-metal mini.
>>47299333
>Sisters are unrelated again
Since when? They've all always been independent organizations they just have agreements signed with the different Ordos to support them in their work.
>>47296336
The 25th GW Anniversary White Dwarf from 2006 had Chapter Approved rules for imperial fanatics. Other than that, Witch Hunters is all you're getting.
Remember, the Age of Apostasy meant the Ecclesiarchy is not allowed to have men under arms, so presumably it's Sisters and robots all the way down.
This could adequately be represented with Inquisition. Use the rules but refluff them.
>>47305749
Don't forget the Repressor Forgeworld made.
>>47306648
>robots
Interesting point. Are servitors considered to be men or machines?
Can flocks of cherubs and servo-skulls and chrono-gladiator armies be a thing.
>>47307094
I don't think they're considered men, but the Ecclesiarchy obviously has some problems with the Cult of Mars, so they probably wouldn't be able to support a large army of servitors and suchlike, or even the more useful Legio Cybernetica bots.
Besides, servitors need a lot of direction and control to make even a useful military unit.
>>47306519
>It actually manages to be worse than an all-metal mini.
You say that like it isn't a known think that hybrid minis are absolute cancer.
>>47307171
They manage to put their hands on tons of power armour, and I'm under the impression that cherubs or servo-skulls aren't considered particularly high- or rare tech. We often see them assisting low ranked adepts and clerks, or holding incense burners.
>>47306519
Big metal add-ons for plastic kits, gotta love 'em.
>>47306932
"Made" being the operative word, but yeah (in fairness, Sisters are far from the only victims of Forge World's range purges, but it's especially noticeable with them since they barely had anything to begin with). I did consider the Repressor too, it's just not as emblematic of the Sisters as the burny-melty tank and organ tank.
Still, in a hypothetical SoB update, the Repressor would be an ideal candidate to move to the main line, being an existing design and another Rhino-based vehicle. I assume it wouldn't step on FW's toes too much, given that they don't actually sell it anymore.
>>47308880
I just like that it switches things up by having the burny thing on a pintle mount. Sisters need more in the way of heavy guns and lascannons, not just flamers and meltas.
Sisters in general just don't get enough love.
>>47299311
It's loophole abuse since they're not "men". Everyone knows it, but permits it because the Sisters act like an impartial heresy detector for everyone, Ministorum included.
>>47309398
And also the fact that in a sense, it's less trouble that way - the Sisters are portrayed in the canon as mostly being a defensive force that protects holy sites and planets, and act as bodyguards for religiously-minded Inquisitors or actual priests. This means that planetary governers or other factions don't have to spend (even more?) resources and manpower providing to defend holy sites - and they can't just not defend them, otherwise they're heretics, and it would probably cause harm to morale for the more pious.
Despite their fancy equipment, Sisters don't really have the numbers to actually act as a military force to terrorize the Imperium like the Frateris Templar. They recruit solely from orphaned women who have to get through a demanding Schola process that might set them up as Commissars or Arbites anyway. As far as the canon indicates, at best they have a couple thousand sisters in even the most major orders. They could do a few crusades, but they'd still likely need wider support from the rest of the Imperium, which means no one Sister Order could go crazy and tear the Imperium apart in a religious civil war.
And as much as they would need support from other factions, like you said, they are a heresy detector, and while they might not be able to tear apart the Imperium, they could potentially deal with some traitor guard or heretical marines, and prevent abuse of spiritual authority by the corrupt. They can remind an Imperial Governer of his faith and therefore loyalty to the Emperor and Imperium, as much as a techpriest would remind them of the importance of their machines.
All in all, it's another fascinating look at how the Imperium intentionally breaks itself into pieces and sets those pieces fighting against each other just to make sure they don't ever have a second Horus Heresy, sacrificing the chance for true unity for more or less guaranteed survival.
>>47298050
Hrud, Q'Orl, Umbra, Thyrrus, stop making every race the "greatest threat to the Imperium" and add these as minor races, such as the Tau, and add more races to the Tau federation.
>>47296336
Sisters are basically supposed to be the Ecclesiarchy.
However GW making the awful decision to stick Sisters and the Inquisition in the Witch Hunters codex together and at one point even coming up with a lore excuse for there to be a connection between the Sisters and the Hereticus misled a lot of people to believe they're part of the Inquisition.
Sisters in general do not seem to popular, so that would go a decent ways towards explaining there being no clamoring for the Ecclesiarchy.
>>47296417
40k revolves around the Imperium
>>47306601
Neither the recent Inquisition or Sisters codices makes any mention of the two having a formal connection.
>>47307407
>They manage to put their hands on tons of power armour
Because the Ecclesiarchy is rich and power armor isn't exactly all that extravagant for the Mechanicus in the grand scheme of things.
Not to mention I don't think GW has ever really gone into the various types of power armor. Wouldn't surprise me if what Sisters get is in someway inferior to Mechanicus, Space Marine, and possibly even Inquisition power armor.
>>47306932
>>47308880
>>47309038
The Repressor is coming back at some point, FW removed it because there were some problems with the mold.
>>47310291
>Sisters don't really have the numbers
Until you actually number crunch.
There is a minimum of one Sisters defending every holy site in the Imperium, often much more then one. Cathedrals and the like possibly have a full Order Minoris stationed there.
Then there is bodyguards, patrols, defending the pilgrimage routes, investigation forces AND in the old dex, they were the primary combatant force in a War of Faith.
Sisters would number in the billions minimum.
There numbers are said to be low by GW because they have an absolute ineptitude to even work a calculator and the Storm Troopers were once said to number ten thousand at the most, and this was presented as if they were an unbeatable force at that size.
>>47312033
>Wouldn't surprise me if what Sisters get is in someway inferior to Mechanicus, Space Marine, and possibly even Inquisition power armor.
The official word is that other then Black Carapace interface and associated systems, their armour is near identical to Marines.
Short of Artificer Armour, the Sisters are getting the best the Mechanicus makes.
>>47313087
And the Sisters are well trained enough that even the Space Marines sometimes give grudging respect, and I've never heard of Guardsmen calling them toy soldiers like Stormtroopers.
>>47296417
Well, right now we just have...Inquisition and Imperial Guard?
Ecclessiarchy is a sorta case but I guess they count.
>>47302197
The Admin, the Church and the Mechanicus are really the 3 big pillars.
The Guard are important but they serve the others more than make overarching decisions for the Imperium.
>>47299412
>Apart from the Inquisition (and maybe the Officio Assassinorum), they are the most powerful faction within the Imperium
The Mechanicus and Adeptus Astartes are arguably the two most powerful groups in the Imperium.
Sebastian Thor convincing them to help him overthrow Vandire was rather significant.
>>47312033
>Because the Ecclesiarchy is rich and power armor isn't exactly all that extravagant for the Mechanicus in the grand scheme of things.
Sorta.
The Ecclessarichy and the Mechanicus have some serious Love/Hate. They have a lot of support treaties and tend to have massive fights less than say, the SOB/Various Marine Chapters. They also cooperate a lot when it comes to Archeotechnology Relics (Which are both holy tech AND blessed relics) to decide who has authority.
But they endlessly squabble and insult each others. They are like those two siblings who constantly talk about how they hate the other and they think the other has stupid ideas for idiots but if someone turns up to pick on one of them, they'll both kick his face in.
>>47313933
To be fair, almost all of the branches of the Adeptus do that. There is almost always undertones of infighting, and sometimes it even gets in the way of fighting a common enemy.
>>47313816
That's probably because Sisters aren't part of the Guard and aren't called in to do special operations like the Scions are.
The Scions very much are just better trained and equipped Guardsmen.
>>47313933
Oh I don't disagree that they fight, but to me the Mechanicus does not really seem to care all that much about others getting to use power armor compared to other technologies, probably because of its prevalence and the Ecclesiarchy being able to give them resources.
>>47313870
How could you forget Space Marines? They're super-human, yes, but built on a human chassis.
>>47314097
They are not really part of the Imperium and have sort of left humanity behind. That and if you count them then you've also got to count Chaos.
>>47314060
>The Scions very much are just better trained and equipped Guardsmen.
The amount of training they go through they are more akin to less-religious Sisters then just over-dressed guardsmen.
>>47314569
Not really. Sisters seemed trained for combat alongside a larger group. Scions act more like strike troops or spec ops.
>>47314569
Well in a way that is part of what makes them so similar to Guardsmen, not to mention their equipment is very similar.
Sisters have access to equipment and vehicles that a Guardsman will never lay his hands upon.
>>47314826
Aren't sisters mostly a cock waving to show of against the enemies of the Imperium/Faith?
Space Marines are the Angels of Death.
Imperial Guard the Emperor's Hammer.
Or my personal take is that Sisters are basically the UN peace keeping forces of the Imperium.
They have Orders dedicated to every single aspect of the Imperiums way of life, from medics, linguistic, concubines, advisors, military, missionary, etc.
The Sisters are the watchmen who watches the watchmen.
