Every party should have a crafter, blacksmith, or even both. Why waste money on weapons, armor, and other supplies when you can have a member who hand-crafts stuff perfectly tailored to the rest of the group?
Seriously though, crafters are cool as hell and people don't play them enough? Have you ever had a crafter in your party, /tg/? Maybe you were even the crafter yourself. What kind of cool shit got made? Did the crafter ever create a legendary weapon or item?
>>47256132
Most games revolve around combat as a central mechanic, and the most popular of systems have atrocious rules for crafting.
AD&D might actually encourage some of this, as the game has many suggestions for expanding the party beyond themselves and creating workshops and stuff.
>>47256132
>crafters are cool
Give me one system that has a crafting module that isn't poorly made.
>>47256132
Crafting takes time, money and you lose out on potential experience from adventuring working in the smithy so to speak. Most adventurers aren't willing to make that trade when there is looting and murderhoboing to be done.
In PF crafting items is usually a good idea assuming that you have a caster with the appropriate feat
I played a 3.5 Artificer who ran his own workshop during the downtime between adventures. He did custom jobs for most of the party.
>>47256670
Ars Magica. I'm playing a tailor in my current saga.
>>47256691
Good, loot'n'murderhobo games are boring as fuck.
Besides, most games have moments of downtime where the crafter can make stuff while the party rests after their adventure. The crafter themselves can be a member of combat too; who wouldn't want to fight with the blades and armor they made themselves?
>>47256670
That's the only real problem, and is mainly because no one plays crafters in the first place, so nobody cares about rules for them, so nobody plays crafters...
>>47257093
ahh, the power of the redline!
>>47257145
In the last campaign I played a natural philosopher who crafted astrological divinations and alchemical reagents. What's cool is that that's a whole different set of rules from my more conventional craftsman, but they're both mechanically strong.
And all of these are supplements to the core rules, which already includes the best systems in any rpg for crafting potions, enchanted items and writing books.
>>47256132
I played a mechanic in a modern game, and the players got pissy at me because my workplace wouldn't give them a 100% discount.
I gotta eat, nigga.
>>47256670
Exalted third.Yes I actually mean that. I like it
>>47257093
Dr, Venture?
I've had players play craftsmen, and have played craftsmen myself, in three systems: D&D 3.5, WH40kRP, and Eclipse Phase (though the latter is more of a programmer). The key to making it work, I think, is to reduce the cost of entry. Crafting is peripheral to the adventuring experience, and you do not want the PCs to lose significant ability in exploration or combat in order to pay for crafting ability.
In 3.5, I addressed this by making one skill, Tradesman, that covers nearly all Craft and Profession skills, and placed some Craft and Profession skills with the other skills as appropriate. Thus most characters have some Craft or Profession related to their other skills, and those that want to specialize in crafting can craft whatever.
In WH40kRP, we made the Trade skills available to anyone and everyone at 50xp per skill.
>>47256132
Alot of games are combat-centric and don't allow for the time required to craft weapons. Most probably have them craft/buy things behind the scenes.
>>47256730
PF actually has a the Master Craftsman feat, almost anyone can craft magic weapons and armor as well as wondrous items.
>>47257155
I don't disagree with you, those types of games bother me too- I'm merely stating that a lot of players seem to be stuck in their ways.
>>47256132
Actual crafting takes a shitload of time, other members are forced to stay in one location for significant amounts of time.
When campaigns are time-sensitive, this is kind of a problem.
But the simplest way to do it is to have the PC use a magical crafting method that's much faster. Then just have the artifact stuff only craftable by legendary NPCs.
I'm considering a system where quickcrafted items aren't permanent, they last about as long as a dungeon floor and you either make a new one or use material on-hand to switch things up.
>>47256132
I was in a homebrew Pirates-esque campaign, and I was the crafter. Killing a shark with my blacksmith's hammer? Happened. Making ridiculous shit like pic related for party members? Done. That was a good game.
>>47257677
Steel weapons take on the order of hours to make, depending on what specifically the weapon is and how ornate you want it to be
Armor is much more variant. If you already had a vest to work with, making a gambeson would be pretty quick. But making proper plate or mail takes a lot of time
>>47257484
PF solved it by making any magic crafting rely on Spellcraft with a suitable Craft/Profession as an alternative. Considering how easy Craft bonuses are to get it was a good option for anyone specializing in only one.
So not a bad way of doing it for 3.5
>>47256670
Earthdawn. The Weaponsmith class is fucking badass. They can even eventually forge their very souls into a weapon of unsurpassed quality.
>>47257569
I want this feat now. What do I need to be self sufficient? Craft: Alchemy, Armor, Weapon, what else?
Currently playing a force sensitive mechanic in Force and Destiny. Not only do I rack up cash from fixing and upgrading team mates stuff, but I make sure to create all sorts of cool trinkets and gadgets for myself and the party on a 'per mission' basis
>>47256132
DnD pathfinder: Alchemist
I pretty much redefined poison use in my group by making my own purple worm equivilent doses. I then worked out how to become an illegal drug baron and mint out cash in stimulants. Never did get round to that, but it was fun thinking about.
First time we actually managed to take something alive was when i poisoned the enemy caster so their str went to 0, and we actually got to interrogate them.
>>47258110
> I then worked out how to become an illegal drug baron and mint out cash in stimulants
I'm interested, do you mind telling? I plan to splash Alchemist over in Pathfinder land and want to learn how to use Poison proficiency as best I can since I'll have it anyway, although I suppose I'll have to figure out how to ensure my poisons are properly hidden.
>>47256730
It's a stupid good idea actually.
I love crafting yet if I have to DM Pathfinder I straight up ban the magical item crafting feats because they drastically accelerate the inherent bustedness of the system.
>>47257360
Dr. Steel i think is his name... he does electronica or some shit.
>>47258299
Well, all the mundane drugs are cheap as chips, alongside a feat to make crafting faster and in multiple doses at once, you can quite easily make the 1/3rd price goods and sell them at the 1/2 price maximum for loot, since its mundane. Its not a big price mark up, but since your making multiple doses a pop and can eventually cut down the time to doing multiple crafts per day, you can easily end up with a dozen or so items to sell.
Keep in mind i did this a few years ago now so the feats might not even exist any more, or the class might have been changed but:
Master Alchemist was one of the feats. (multiple poison doses, well, this is DM discretion, a drug can be the equivilent of a poison, like alcohol)
Its also the feat that lets you craft faster.
combined with some of the upper teir alchemist crafting abilities and it gets silly fast.
Your better off crafting poison straight up due to its GP value if your after profit, if you can find a buyer.
>>47257677
>Actual crafting takes a shitload of time, other members are forced to stay in one location for significant amounts of time.
This is a problem of players more than crafting itself. Any group more advanced than mindless murderhobos can find interesting things to do during downtime. Maybe they have to get the materials through questing. Or they need access to a special forge. Maybe the party puts on demonstrations and advertises for the crafter (damn, now I want to play this). You can make cool stories from crafting, so long as you're willing to do stuff more cerebral than mindless MMO-esque murderhobo'ing.
Hell, the slow and methodical nature of crafting lends itself to character interactions as well: the crafter has to talk with the group's fighter about how they want their weapons or armor made; the mage is disgusted by the dirtiness of the forge, leading to humorous banter...
Too bad I'm forever gameless.
>>47259480
But then crafting takes center stage for that period of time, so both GMs and Players need to accommodate their mindset appropriately.
And well? Even the ones that want more crafting can have trouble wrapping their heads around the idea.
>>47259579
Sure, but I look at it as the crafting giving the party the chance to do different things. Through it, they can get into interesting adventures that let them do more stuff than just kill and loot.
Granted, I prefer games where there's downtime and the PC's actually live in a decently stable place, instead of being perpetually homeless. Basically, a game with arcs like a manga, where they have an adventure, rest for half a year to a few years, get into another adventure, rest, etc. The stuff in between the adventures is when crafting takes place, and serves as humorous/laid-back stuff compared to the exciting adventures.
Also, when I talk about crafters, I'm also talking about PC's who MacGyver their way through everything. They can fit into a more action-packed game.
>>47256132
Play Ars Magica. It's like the only system I'm aware of that actually has a good crafting system, because it's part of the magic system.
>>47257903
I knew that the Weaponsmith was the only class I could play when I first started Earthdawn, it looked so awesome... too bad the game fizzled
Played an elf weaponsmith turned fighter in DnD 3.5. Probably one of my favorite games. He got on really well with the dwarf cleric for some reason...
>>47256132
Can someone post that "la li lu le lo" screencap about the party crafter, who counter-betrayed his party by using hidden triggers in the equipment he crafted for them?
>>47257342
I hope you step on a pointy lego, faggot.
>>47256132
>Seriously though, crafters are cool as hell and people don't play them enough?
if a character had employable trade skills why would they be out risking their lives adventuring?
>>47263757
Because they are the bone of their sword, anon.
>>47258477
And he does it quite well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCKkcex6_Hg
>>47256132
>why don't people carry crafters/blacksmiths around
because you need a metric fuckton of equipment to smith ANYTHING, and you sure as hell aren't going to be carrying all that shit around with you during your adventures. Even if you had a blacksmith in your party, you'd still need to visit the local smithy and pay for the usage of their facilities
>>47264255
That's actually pretty awesome, thanks Anon
>>47256132
Played 3.5 with the guy who made the artificer cost reduction guide (i.e. the thing that made them go from tier 1 to tier 0). He was going easy and still dropped all our shit to 17% of cost. He's now banned from even taking a full caster.
>>47264255
Sad that he retired the act.
>>47256132
Because most systems have crafting as a random point sink that either let's you create mundane weapons if you have access to all the tools and materials (such as in a city where you can just buy them) or has a more in-depth system that required a lot of investment but ultimately makes your character into an NPC as they wasted all their points on being able to make +1 swords or whatever.
To have a crafting character work I think you'd need the ability to make mundane weapons insanely fast out of nothing (in a forest? You can cut down a tree in one stroke and make half a dozen spears in the span of a few seconds) AND be able to spend more time to reinforce and improve existing weapons in cool ways that don't just replace the party's need to go magic item shopping.
>>47256132
Honestly, my biggest hangup with crafting systems is that it's either utterly useless compared to loot, or it utterly trivializes a significant portion of adventuring.
>>47265549
What about something like this?
>>47268844
Less "retired" and more "was blacklisted and driven out of the industry".
>>47256132
My groups party actually does have a blacksmith in it.
>>47256132
>>47256614
I'm currently doing this in a Black Crusade game.
I'm like a reverse hulk. A mad scientist. I get angry, and then I build shit for the whole party to go ham on things with.
Its like anger by proxy.
>>47257155
>says loot and murderhobo games are boring as fuck
>willing to rp staying in town for months, rolling dice to see how that blade your hammering at is coming along while the rest of the group is out having adventures
Have fun anon
>>47256132
HAHA, nope. First time player, it was pathfinder. The GMguy woulden't let us create ANYTHING quickly. When we wanted make new spells, he said it would take over 8 months to make a ice version of fireball. We tried to tell him about other crafiting rules that made more sense but he said PF's was the correct way to do it.
The kick? We were in a timed mission to stop the end of the world. The casters scrapped their plans and I never crafted anything. I even warned him that, because of the time to make anything new, the casters woulden't waste time doing that, but he did not listen.
And yet the NPC blacksmiths give us items we asked them to make almost on the spot.
>>47263743
Gotcha covered.
>>47256132
Got a character who started out as a PC, shifted to NPC when I took over GM reigns in Anima. He's the party's weapon/armor smith, as well as their enchanter. Tends to whip stuff up quicker than it would normally take as he has access to the Forge spell, which lets him instantly create an item, so long as he has the materials. Combined with his strong Runes skill, he's whipped up a few enchanted masks(for himself, facial disfigurement sucks), as well as some "replica" creatures with magical abilities. Like a Day Gecko that can transmit and receive sounds, sights, and open a portal to another Day Gecko.
Or his most recent creation, a Junebug spying device.
The party wonders why he makes them animal themed(easier to pass of as a toy), but they can't doubt the effectiveness of the items themselves.
>>47256132
In most systems I've seen crafting takes time which a DM might not give you. Especially for making magic items. High level ones in 3.5 and PF can take YEARS to make.
>>47273644
Mr. Jekyl and Dr. Hyde.
>>47256132
The problem is, crafting during play is either incredibly overpowered because you just go "okay I craft it" and you have a thing, or it's shit because you don't have the time/resources, and either way it's boring.
>>47257342
Tell me what you like about it and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
>>47272325
How does such a thing come to pass?
>>47272262
Eh, maybe. I have a very small shop in my garage, and between steel, charcoal, my anvil, hammers + other hand tools, belt sander, and drill press I've got a lot of stuff. It's not easily mobile.
I am a blacksmith and if I had to carry my stuff around everywhere I would kill myself.
