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http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-the-pack/
>richfags
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/181760?affiliate_id=13&src=TheOnyxPath
>poorfags
http://www.mediafire.com/download/n7htcqyqk0y0acy/%5BWtF%5DThe_Pack.PDF
Do you have a favorite homebrew? Or do you just dislike them in general?
Princess the Hopeful
I wanna do Immortal The Highlandering but only one guy in my gaming group is interested
>>47244237
Is that yet another fan splat that is probably terrible, or are you just talking about using the blue book immortal (which is awesome).
>>47244201
>Do you have a favorite homebrew? Or do you just dislike them in general?
I like Genius and Immortal Revised. I want to finish reading through Princess before giving an opinion on it, but it looks cool from what I've seen so far. Why does it have two different versions?
Did Genius ever get updated for 2E?
>>47244283
Have fun:
http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/Misc/Immortal_Rules_Revised.pdf
>>47244300
Some people are working on an 2E update. They are trying to vear it away from its "mage is shit" origins.
>>47244480
>They are trying to vear it away from its "mage is shit" origins.
I personally think one of the things that needs work is the fact there are so many goddamned things, Jesus Christ.
>>47244555
What do you mean?
>>47244573
The fact there are WAY too may different term in the current version.
>>47243734
>The reference charts at the end
I keep reading "Seraphic Fury" as "Sapphic Fury".
>>47245033
either works, for Princess ;)
>>47244237
There can be only one...
>>47244300
Basically, the devteam couldn't agree on shit.
One part of the devteam (the guy who did most of the work on the Twilight Queens) wanted it to be "magical girls, as interpreted by the world of darkness." His ideal had the queens as distant, half-mad exemplars, a default assumption of "no crossovers", and so on. Mechanically, he wanted to simplify the magic system, but encourage people to take multiple different [power groups] rather than going all-in to one.
Te other guy wanted "Magical girls in the world of darkness", so had things like the queens being people you could go hang out with, lots of cross-over stuff including with other fan-lines, and really complex powers that each player was intended to focus on one group of (since its a pdf only, so they don't need to worry about page count as much)
Last I heard, the first guy had left the project because he got tired of fighting over it all the time, which is unfortunate, because i liked his fluff and mechanics better.
>>47245357
I hate dev drama. It always ruins good things.
I thought Dave said that each Arcana gets a type of armor, like Death reducing damage to bashing by making them akin to vampire.
>>47245669
They do?
>>47245694
Where's the rote for them? I don't see them anywhere
>>47245714
It's an attainment.
>>47245714
>>47245716
>>47245714
Mage Armor is an inherent power once you hit 2 dots in an arcana.
I feel like mages are way too weak this edition, they should be much, much stronger, awaiting some erratas to fix this
>>47246258
Lazy, very lazy.
1/10 - made me reply
How would you go about playing an Embraced bunny?
>>47246348
Is this a reference to that shitty cartoon
>>47246359
No,it's reference to the book and the game that inspired the shitty cartoon you dolt!
>>47246258
>>47244300
>Why does it have two different versions?
Princesses often hold strong views.
>>47245357
Which is which, though? The Dream Version has the Queens as distant Exarch/Oracle type figures aside from Queen of Tears, and there's not much in the way of crossover other than a few Embassies and mentions in he stereotypes and Clash of Wills. I don't know whether I'd say the magic is simplified, though.
I haven't read the Vocation version yet, but then again I haven't finished the Dream version.
>>47246377
>>47246359
>There's a Bunnicula cartoon
>There's a Bunnicula game
Why does the idea of a Changeling who is every member of Frankie Valii and Four Seasons at the same time appeal to me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgmyQFFQjo
>>47246965
you have shit taste
>Concealment magic, of whatever type, can hide a target from Active Mage Sight, but only if the concealment would logically mask the target from the purview of the Arcanum in question. Even then, if the concealment power uses the same magical principles as the detecting Arcanum, the mage still has a chance to see through it. For example, a light-based invisibility spell would conceal a target from Mind Sight, but Life Sight could still detect the living being, with or without the assistance of photons. Likewise, some vampires employ a kind of mental “invisibility” that causes observers to ignore them. This power would conceal a target from Forces Sight (it isn’t light-based) or Time Sight, but not Mind Sight (since both the concealment power and the Arcanum are working on the same principles).
I don't understand what this is saying. Why would invisibility stop Mind but not Life? Why would "Invisibility" make you invisible to Mind but make you show up on Life? Why does being invisible stop stop your thoughts from being detected but not your life essence? Did they typo and mean something like Matter or Space?
>>47246965
>Frankie Valley and the Four Seasons
>not the superior parody version
>>47247876
>Machiavelli and the Four Seasons
>There's clearly six of them
Why is this allowed.
>>47247896
To be fair, in Frankie Valley and the Four Seasons there are clearly only four of them.
>>47247896
Machiavelli is two dudes, obviously
>>47247973
Its a corruption of their native Belarusian, it's Machi & Velli
>>47247943
Yeah, which was what I was getting at with my changeling idea. the guy was broken into four pieces that were then reshaped into separate bodies, also each one was made with a different musical role in mind, which explains the fact that he has four Kiths (Nightsinger, Minstrel, Thusser and Flamesiren)
The visuals of this scene are really similar to how I described my character's deaths in the Geist game I ran.
https://youtu.be/kcqCx4HzeAM?t=223
I'm just starting this game, but it really looks like a great idea of Twilight.
>>47248236
its a shit game tbqh but it is a great concept
>>47244201
Leviathan.
It's what we should have gotten instead of Beast.
>>47248349
I was going to say "it seems pretty good so far", but then I got to the first ̶D̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶o̶r̶ Demon section and that's really a shitty mechanic.
>>47248492
An unfinished clusterfuck with less sense of direction? Doesn't that game have even less of a coherent focus than Beast, as well as seven total forms?
Also, the only time I've seen anyone actually play or make a Leviathan character is a gay M-preg profile on F-list.
>>47248614
im more mad at the actual investigative stuff.
i'm a huge noob
do the revised editions of the vampire clanbooks (such as White Wolf's 'Clanbook: Nosferatu - Revised Edition) have much of a focus on or relevance to the setting of Vampire: The Dark Ages?
also, as the storyteller for players in a coterie of vampires, books such as 'Dark Ages: Mage' are useful in creating interesting characters that influence the chronicle, no? what about 'Werewolf The Dark Ages?' is it outdated and irrelevant?
and lastly, are there any 'must-haves' or highly recommended books that could help me guide a chronicle?
thanks in advance, pretty keen to place an order for summadeseboox
>>47248659
It's not great, but I don't hate it. That it's a game about investigation is already more than enough for me, since that basically never happens. I feel like this game would have benefited from something more akin to Telltale's format. I like the investigating, but it feels clunky, and the piecing together mysteries part feels sort of... I don't know, I wish there was more to it than just losing badges for guessing wrong.
But I've only gotten to the beach at this point.
>>47247824
Because when they wrote that they weren't just looking at things within mage that conceal characters. It's also looking at Demon, Werewolf, Vampire, and Beast.
And a vampire's invisibility trick will hide from life because Life Sense cannot pick up the Undead.
Mind can, but again if there is a crowd of people passive mage sight might miss them, but would be clash of wills territory at least.
Mage Invisibility wouldn't stop life or Mind but Prime and Forces sure. Remember all 2e supplements are built around the concept that these beings are not alone in their city, that the other splats are there in some other percentage and you will likely have to encounter them eventually.
>>47247824
I think it's just a typo.
>>47249414
Nigga what
Did you even read the bit he quoted?
Abyss or lower Depth?
>>47250341
Abyss. Not sure what sort of incursion it is though, but it is...bad.
>>47249414
As >>47250129 says, did you even read what I quoted? My problem isn't with whether Obfuscate would avoid non-Mind Sight. Obfuscate can be seen by Mind because that's what Obfuscate is. To anything else, you can't pierce the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" effect.
But I want to know why it said that Life could detect some kind of Forces based invisibility but Mind couldn't. If Life could, Mind could. Both wouldn't worry about something bending light. It might have been a typo and they meant Space Sight or something like that. The ability to see bent space doesn't mean you can see invisible things.
>>47250341
Interstitial terrain.
>>47250341
Elder Tzimisce with Celerity
>>47244223
Can mages that are part of a werewolf pack purchase the Totem Merit and/or benefit from benefits and bonuses offered by a pack totem?
Can a spirit be both a werewolf pack totem and a mage familiar?
>>47251631
>>47251659
Every member of the pack gains the totem bonuses.
W:tF 2e, p. 92,
"Whatever trait the players buy, every member of the pack
gains it. If they have 15 Totem points, they have five Experiences
to spend. They agree on a dot of Strength and the one-dot
version of the Fleet of Foot Merit. Every member of the pack
— including Wolf-Blooded and human members — gains one
dot of Strength and the one-dot version of the Merit."
>>47251631
I don't believe that anyone other than werewolfs and certain wolf-blooded can purchase the Totem merit without the Magnanimous Totem Merit, The Pack, pp. 30-31.
>>47251631
>>47251705
They can, but only 1 dot, unless the pack has the Magnanimous Totem merit from The Pack.
>>47251631
Every member of the pack (even humans) gets the totem advantages. But only werewolves and wolf-blooded may purchase the totem merit.
>>47251649
There's no rule against it beyond common sense.
>>47251782
And Purified
>>47251776
There's a Pack Bond merit that lets individual wolf-blooded do it
>>47251780
>They can, but only 1 dot, unless the pack has the Magnanimous Totem merit from The Pack.
Magnanimous Totem doesn't say anything about mages.
>>47251814
I'm assuming Mages go into the same level as Wolf-Blooded, since they're more than human but not on the same level of dedication to the Hunt as the Werewolves
Is there any other splats a Mage can be in the same group as and not feel more powerful?
My local group really likes Mixed Games.
>>47251631
As the base no a mage can't purchase totem dots. But can still gain the benefits of the totem for being in the pack.
But with the purchase of the MAGNANIMOUS TOTEM merit it can be argued that other supernaturals can buy the totem merit as a "human".
>>47251814
>Magnanimous Totem doesn't say anything about mages.
Does it mention Humans, because Mages are.
>>47251795
That's 1e, totems and spirits were different then, and it's not a werewolf pack totem merit, its just for the purified. It's basically more like the mentor merit.
>>47251858
Why you being such a fun-nazi?
>>47251843
No, Mages are always more powerful. The only way to balance them out is to keep humans around all the time so they Paradox like a motherfucker
>>47251856
They don't count as human for the purposes of the merit.
>>47251885
source?
>>47251875
>Why you being such a fun-nazi?
You didn't seem to know the conversation was talking about 2e, so it was reasonable to guess that you didn't know that things work different between editions.
I shouldn't have to post "you can do everything you want in your own games" but if you need that affirmation there you are.
>>47251910
Oh, so they're released 2e Purified then have they?
My mistake, I wasn't aware. I assumed we still had to use 1e and relevant errata like for all the other templates that haven't been updated yet.
Do you have a link so I can read the new version?
>>47251894
The Pack and core, they're covered under "Other".
>>47251932
>My mistake, I wasn't aware. I assumed we still had to use 1e and relevant errata like for all the other templates that haven't been updated yet.
You shouldn't assume. You're making an ass out of yourself.
You can read how Purified totem merit isn't them as part of a pack totem in Immortals. You can read how spirits/totems have changed in almost everything in 2e.
>>47251875
>Why you being such a fun-nazi?
Why are you trolling?
This is something to ask your DM.
>>47252063
>anything without a 2e update no longer exists
Right, I'm the troll
>>47244201
Leviathan was real cool. Basically Beast done right, plus a lot of aspects of Mummy done right-er, and long before either came out. Not liking what I'm seeing so far for the 2E conversion, but looks like it's the most we'll get since they never finished the first one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpMP_ZgIHjk
I just realized this would be perfect for Werewolf.
>>47244201
NEET: The Autistic
Is there a list of all the WoD/CofD fansplats somewhere?
>>47251814
Mages count as Human unless otherwise specified - basically for anything except "becoming another supernatural type" (since their Major Template, like all Major Template, overrides others).
>>47248614
>tfw that's my profile
>>47253443
Time for the real question that is on everyone's mind: When's the last time the benevolent motherfucker known asMothmanshowed up in your game? If he hasn't, what are you waiting for!?!
>>47255505
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qXpTOWyshg
>>47255505
Who is that guy?
>>47255505
I haven't had the chance to run Demon: the Descent yet, but if I did I'd use the Mothmen from the Cryptids section of the core. The few Mothmen that are left would live in small groups in forests along the Eastern part of the United States, and another Mothman Outbreak would be imminent.
>>47248747
If you want clanbooks for the Dark Ages, then you want Player's Guides to the High and Low Clans.
>>47251854
I'd allow it. If you're in a Werewolf crossover game and are willing to spring for Magnanimous Totem, I say go for it. I could see making the argument that other supernaturals count as Wolf-Blooded because the corebook says "Most of the time, such creatures fit in on the
level of Wolf-Blooded," but that is a very generous reading and it is pretty obvious it meant it on more of a social level. Than again, reading humans to include Mages under Magnanimous Totem is also being generous as that likely wasn't the intent when that was written.
If push comes to shove, just make a Wolf-Blooded Vampire/Mage/Whatever.
>>47255989
Mothman from the Shin Megami Tensei series.
So a Mage with a mythological Shadow Name, the Destiny merit at 5 dots, and Aspirations that focus their narrative into follow the legend of the digure they're named after; fun idea, or should I wait for more Scion previews instead?
I want to play an Acanthus named Tyr who hates werewolves but knows they can't kill him until Ragnarok.
>>47256391
I think a good Scion character idea is something that's a little more in response to the patron deity as opposed to a direct retracing of their footsteps, so it'd be better for Mage, but that's just me. The werewolf aspect seems a bit gonzo, but otherwise that's a fun idea if you can make it work with a Cabal.
>>47256391
Very gimmicky, and yeah it sounds like you just want to play Scion and are jamming the proverbial square peg into the round hole. Having a mythological shadow name is fine, but then focusing your entire character around that is boring. You should be eager to delve into the Mysteries that the ST is going to be throwing your way, not ruminating on an apocalypse or losing your hand to some big wolf.
>>47256512
Wouldn't they just be creating a Mystery wrapped around the character anyways, since every player's Obsession is pretty much "Hey ST, make this a Mystery"? You could also do some stuff about the symbolism of Ragnarok, and the cycles of rebirth, and all that stuff. It seems like it'd be a bit difficult but it's certainly not dire.
>>47256548
Hard mode: The game is set in 1950s Beijing.
>>47256570
I can do 1890s Hong Kong or 1920s Shanghai.
>>47256512
The whole point of Obsessions is to have a player-facing mechanic that allows them some sway over the narrative. A good ST will talk with each of their players about how to work their Obsessions into the chronicle setting as Mysteries to solve, during the pregame or a session zero. Doing otherwise smacks of "I'm here to tell my story!" rather than the collaborative story game that CofD wants to be.
So I attempted Storytelling for my combat-addicted vampire group, but combat gets pretty stupid pretty fast. Either antagonists utterly ruin the players, or the players utterly ruin the antagonists, depending on who has the most Celerity and Obfuscate.
>>47257098
From the fact that Celerity and Obfuscate were called out, I'm guessing you're playing Masquerade?
>>47257131
Yep. I've quickly realized that I must either pull punches and watch NPCs die in droves, or just eradicate the players with properly played, analogous combat monsters.
Or be a dick and brainwash them in their sleep or some shit, but that's arguably worse.
>>47257150
Now for the real question: WHY are you playing Masquerade?
>>47257150
Does pulling punches mean not bullying the shit out of them with Presence or Animalism or Dementation?
>>47257441
Because it's a fun game to play?
>>47257492
I meant that I could have Obfuscated Celerity assassins rape them to death with the same shit they're throwing, but that seems boring, in a way.
Dementation is awful. Dominate was always the superior discipline.
>>47257441
Group's idea; beats the shit out of D&D.
>>47257860
>Dementation is awful. Dominate was always the superior discipline.
As a tool, yeah. Voice of Madness and Total Insanity are weapons.
>>47244573
yeah, it's about as dense as mummy is in specialized lingo
>>47244201
How accurate is this (>>47258397) description of WoD?
>>47258969
It's not accurate regarding the setting, but people do run/play games like that so it's not completely inaccurate.
It's like you could say Dungeons and Dragons is about going from town to town raping everyone to death with the rules of various third party products. Some games can be like that.
>>47255527
Is this show any good? Cause that was pretty fucking cool.
>>47258969
Sort of accurate. It's not pure horror, it's action horror.
You know, like survival-horror films.
Genres shifts with the major splats, of course.
>>47258969
stuff like kult, unknown armies, little fears, they all do horror way, way better.
>>47258969
I'll give you a hit:
>No
>>47259207
>>47259085
Essentially this. Doing so tends to mean ignoring a lot of the mechanics, though. Like groups that don't want to use Humanity because it's too limiting. They're kind of missing the point and should probably play a different system, because this one has themes built into things like that.
>>47258969
Not very
WoD Vampires aren't regular dudes; they can stop time, fuck with shadows, shapeshift, and throw fireballs(Temporis, Obtenebration, Vicissitude/Protean/Serpentis, Thaumaturgy, respectively), and about half of them would be happy to drain someone dry and leave them to rot, or do worse shit to them.
Same goes for just about every splat in WoD.
CofD Vampires are tamer, and presumably what he's referring to(because of the Personal Horror comment), but they're only emo-gothic angsty shitbags if you actively try to not have fun with the game.
The Personal Horror is stuff like finding out your ex-girlfriend has been ghouled by the Ordo Dracul guy you've been dealing with, and now he's got her tied up in the basement and is gradually turning her into an inhuman monster(I mean that in the literal 'no longer recognizably human' sense)
Other splats have their own variations on the personal horror, from Werewolf's "Your sister is now host to a colony of rat-parasites" to Mage's "The world is constantly being invaded by cosmic horrors and you're one of the only people that can stop them from destroying everything"
>>47259197
It's pretty good.
>>47259271
>"The world is constantly being invaded by cosmic horrors and you're one of the only people that can stop them from destroying everything"
You forgot "also, your daughter has now become one of said cosmic horrors".
>>47259296
Or the, "That thing you've called a daughter for the past ten years? Yeah nah, that's just a bundle of sticks with a bit of your daughters soul slapped onto it. I think you're daughter is busy being some horrors favourite hunting dog... or was it a chair?"
>>47259374
That's a classic too!
What kind of fun stuff can you guys think of for a CofD chronicle set in Hawaii?
>>47259478
battleground between asian and north american vampires, south american ones making inroads through crime (lots of organized crime in hawaii)
Shark god released, typhoon god coming, shark/jelly hosts, were-sharks, volcano god/spirit/cult, remnants of human sacrifice and cannibalism, there's stuff you culd do with the leper colony
ghosts of those killed during attack on pearl harbor amassed into mad nephwrack
the natives are sort of fucked over by the tourism, and both are saddled by the growing homeless population (homess love it whre there's no snow, but the south tends to have vicious cops)
>>47259478
I'd go with either things relating to the volcano's or local religous/beliefs. You know look up some folk lore an get cryptids or horrors.
>>47259542
>shark
>a god
What the actual fuck is with backwards peoples and deifying things that are strong?
A medieval knight could kick my fucking ass twenty ways around the sun, could easily butcher a shark, and you don't see people groveling at his feet claiming he's a god.
If what you worship is capable of dying, it's no god, and you need to seriously reevaluate your priorities in life.
>>47259596
not all gods were grovelled to
sometimes you call something a god to show it respect
and you teach others about it so they respect the idea that there's things out there that can eat them
the idea of an omnipotent/unkillable god isn't one that exists in most mythologies
>>47259596
You know he's probably talking about a like rank 6 shark spirit?
>>47259478
>Promethean game. A Centrimani has made a secret base inside a volcano, and wants to use his Wasteland to cause a volcanic eruption. A radical Quashmallim is telling you to stop him.
>Werewolf game. A rival Uratha pack has claimed the beach as their territory. They're willing to compete in a surf-off with your pack in order to see who deserves it the most, with surfing spirits acting as judges.
>Innocents game. That one weird kid at school has a violent, hostile alien as a pet and only the party has noticed it isn't a dog.
>>47259618
Hell, it's relatively new even in Christianity. God was the strongEST, as any god would claim, but being all-powerful and all-controlling is a new shtick in the grand scheme.
>>47259618
>not all gods were grovelled to
Then why call them gods at all? If it's not an ultimate being who is the master of reality, it's not a god. I could build a machine to create and destroy whatever I wanted, that machine is no god.
>the idea of an omnipotent/unkillable god isn't one that exists in most mythologies
True, but that is my point. Something isn't a god because it's strong or it can kill you or even because it can do magic.
>>47259655
But gods are just supernatural things, fampai, they're just stronger than humans an probably have domain over some aspect of life.
>>47259655
>Then why call them gods at all?
Because some people remember that something can be important regardless of its ability to win an imaginary-friend fight.
Religion wasn't always the prototype for SpaceBattles Power-Man shitposting.
>>47259648
Promethean is what inspired this, actually. I really want to play an Extempore born from a volcanic eruption.
>>47259655
>Then why call them gods at all? If it's not an ultimate being who is the master of reality, it's not a god. I could build a machine to create and destroy whatever I wanted, that machine is no god.
Because as I stated before, the idea that God means ultimate being who is a master of reality is a new one, and very biased (it suggests you don't know much about the folklore and myths of other cultures, or older ones)
>True, but that is my point. Something isn't a god because it's strong or it can kill you or even because it can do magic.
When you see things like shark gods in myth, they're not talking about the shark from Jaws, they're talking about beings that didn't exist and instead represented aspects of their life.
>tfw we'll never live in a universe where Leviathan was polished up and made official instead of Beast being created
>>47259745
Yeah, your laziness is keeping this universe from being great.
>>47259694
Then that's no god at all, it's just a race of strong people.
>>47259695
>Because some people remember that something can be important regardless of its ability to win an imaginary-friend fight.
Being important doesn't make you a god. I think we can all agree that Barack Obama is an important man, one of the most important, but he's certainly no god. You might say, "Well, Barack Obama doesn't make the sun rise or the winds blow!" but then, if he did you're qualifying him as a god? Is the atmospherics AI of your generation ship a god, because it makes the wind blow and the sun rise? That's a rhetorical question by the way, the answer is no. It's just an entity with some power, that's all.
>>47259715
>Because as I stated before, the idea that God means ultimate being who is a master of reality is a new one
That's got nothing to do with my point. I'm not arguing that backwards cultures and beliefs didn't exist, I'm telling you that they're stupid.
>>47259703
Will he be able to create more Promethean of his lineage and complete his pilgrimage? Extempores have their work cut out for them.
>>47259790
Damn this niggah got some chip on his shoulder about religions. Aha, dood you got one hell of a linear view on what gods are.
>>47259798
He'll throw virgins into the volcano until it works.
>>47259790
>Then that's no god at all, it's just a race of strong people.
That's exactly what the gods in Nordic Mythology basically were. They were mighty and powerful, but when you boiled them down, they were extremely powerful humans. The same with the Greek/Roman and the Egyptian gods.
Which brings up another thing, "gods" is a term of convenience, because each religion/mythologies ideas of what makes a god is different. The Mezo-American gods were great and powerful, but needed blood offerings to stay alive, while the Hindu gods are simply splintered aspects of the one true being.
>>47259596
I'm pretty sure a medieval knight would get it's ass kicked by a shark. Even then, it's a massive mighty predator that deserves respect and is important to the culture and life of an island people. It's not just "a shark", it's "the embodiment of all sharks in the culture".
>>47259655
Not all religions are Christianity.
>>47259745
But Leviathan is worse than Beast.
>>47259898
>They were mighty and powerful, but when you boiled them down, they were extremely powerful humans.
Technically they weren't even human. Aesir, vanir, jotunn, different races.
>>47259827
FUCKING THIS.
alternatively, nuke under a fault line
>>47259940
Don't be a pedant.
If you really want to be a pedant, it would be separate species, since I'm pretty sure there were at least a few Norse half-Gods, and those groups could intermarry.
>>47259940
he meant mortal
l>>47259898
The Greek gods were immortal. nothing could kill them. the titans had to lock ares in a bottle.
>>47259898
>I agree that people worshiped things which clearly weren't gods
Yes, and this is very silly. Having some powerful creature be worshiped as a god is fine, but don't call that creature a god because it is not. Thor and Zeus and Krishna were not gods, they were superpeople. A megashark is not a god either.
>>47259905
>muh christfaggotry
Giving the title of god to anything less than the absolute master of reality is just absurd.
>>47259905
>worse than beast
shots fired
>>47259940
The same way that dwarves, elves, and orcs "aren't even human."
Fuck, you guys got me basically saying the same thing as the "human only setting" guys go on about.
>>47259965
no they were seperate races but they were all the grandchildren of Ymir.
>>47259967
Is this guy trolling? Maybe actually autistic?
>>47259992
Yes, trolling and possibly really religious.
>>47259992
Probably troll, possibly some monotheist going hard on the memes, possibly autistic... Possibly all three.
>>47259992
>>47260000
>>47260004
No, I don't believe in any god. I hate christfags, but their belief is at least minimally reasonable.
To worship anything less than a real god is to admit your self worth is pitifully low. I genuinely feel sorry for people that believe something which is physically stronger than them is god.
>>47259967
>a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"God" only means "the ultimate supreme omnipotent creator and absolute master of reality" in one single religion. That's not really what the term means.
>>47259989
That makes them the same species.
>>47260000
>>47260004
seems like he's an athiest who feels strongly about fiction. Like the kind of person who's an atheist because he feels if God exists he's not GOD enough. Maybe he just really wants an authoritarian father figure?
>>47260041
>"God" only means "the ultimate supreme omnipotent creator and absolute master of reality" in one single religion.
A different conception of god is one that is incoherent. I can fabricate such a god, it's ludicrous that anyone would worship it.
>>47260041
They do say most atheists are only atheists because of daddy trouble.
>>47260069
As someone who's tried running a few games online and hav had them fail in the most boring fashion (people just stop showing up), what advice could you give someone trying to get an online game going consistently?
I figure as a rule people can miss three sessions if they give a heads up, but if they go two without warning, they're just kicked out and we get some new player to take their place.
What kind of site do you like, for information purposes? Roll20?
>>47260036
So you're saying no gods exist because they don't fit your personal definition? Aight dog.
>>47260115
Roll20 and Discord is the go-to combo.
>>47260131
If Zeus showed up at my house and said "Worship me human!" I'm not going to do it because he's clearly not a god. If he says something like, "Doubt my powers, wretch?!" and throws a lightning bolt, I'll give him a nice golf clap and ask him to leave.
Zeus is a man with some power, but so is Barack Obama. I'd argue Obama is actually considerably more powerful than Zeus, and Thor and Krishna for that matter. Certainly all of them are more powerful than some big shark. None of them are gods.
>>47260060
An entity of such scope would only need to exist for a moment before its will is imposed on the entirety of possibility space and any future meddling is unnecessary, rendering its existence superfluous. Whether or not one exists is irrelevant because it's a boring plot element.
>>47260196
Thats not how Zeus worked. He'd turn into a bucket of piss and fall on you and get your pregnant.
He didn't demand worship.
>>47260196
And then he turns into a swan, fucks your mom in front of you, and then kills you with his pinkie finger, cause you didn't kiss his ass.
>>47260196
Okay so is the God-Machine a god by your definition of the word? Or the Exarchs?
>>47260196
Enjoy being smote
>>47260285
Hey, you leave the G-M out of this. It just wants to go about its business.
>>47260196
>>47260250
>>47260257
>>47260297
>>47260318
Yes, he may be a powerful jackass, but so is Putin. He is not a god.
>>47260285
I actually reject the concept of external divinity altogether but I can at least appreciate the reason people would worship the God-Machine.
>>47260329
Can we please stop feeding this troll.
>>47260060
>>47260196
People worship other human beings. Are you this stupid? Do you also not know what worship is? If "stronger and more important" isn't enough for worship, why would "strongest and most important" matter in the first place?
Also, I'm pretty sure if someone with clearly amazing supernatural powers told you to worship them, you'd kiss their feet once you were too busy pissing yourself to do so. Just because something doesn't meet your weird arbitrary criteria for "god" doesn't mean anything.
Nevermind that in the context of the World of Darkness, you worship these things and it gives them strength and in turn they use their strength to protect you. It's literally just paying spiritual taxes. And if you don't want to pay Barack Obama taxes (or the government in general) then whatever, that's your business, go live in the woods and get off the internet.
>>47260115
I don't like kicking players, and I don't like losing players. I try to get to know people before I game with them, usually through other sites, like having an open IRC channel or onF-list.
Since the latter has profiles with BBCode markup, I've been using that for keeping information and playing. I previously used IRC and Wikidot.
>>47260329
Whether you reject the concept of external divinity or not, within this setting it exists. The God-Machine is the most powerful, therefor you should worship it. Hell, I'm pretty sure if Putin broke down your door and demanded worship, you would.
>>47260041
>one single religion
Three religions, which happen to include the two biggest ones in existence.
>>47260477
And they're all inbred and split off from each other
>>47260408
>People worship other human beings.
Despite the fact that other human beings are obviously not gods. Yes, I recognize that people do irrational things, I'm just pointing out that it's stupid to do so.
>If "stronger and more important" isn't enough for worship, why would "strongest and most important" matter in the first place?
Strength doesn't matter, I agree, which is why I reject external divinity, but if you value it, as nearly all religious people do, then stopping at "weaker than Obama" is not a sensible thing.
>Nevermind that in the context of the World of Darkness, you worship these things and it gives them strength and in turn they use their strength to protect you.
Yes, you can trade your dignity for protection, that's long been the case in human society, and never once has it been the basis for divinity.
>Whether you reject the concept of external divinity or not, within this setting it exists.
Wrong, there are just a lot of very powerful creatures. Case in point, the God-Machine is explicitly just a sufficiently advanced alien.
>>47260395
Well no one is trying to talk about anything else and this guys at least kinda funny with his strange definition of things.
Better line of conversations.
Of the religions in the world, which ones help or suit the G-M best, and why? For example, does the G-M like the abrahamic bros because their monotheism leads to singular worship and drive? Does it like neo-paganists because of their willingness to do whatever ritual comes up that might fit an occult matrix?
>>47260504
>I'm just pointing out that it's stupid to do so.
why?
>>47260593
abrahamic because people who believe in a higher power are easier to manipulate
>>47260504
>Yes, I recognize that people do irrational things
For instance, I'm still acknowledging you for some reason.
The God-Machine is not an alien, that's not explicit at all, in fact I'm pretty sure it's said otherwise.
External divinity is something that exists in this setting, you just don't agree with that because you're literally arguing semantics. Also?
>Yes, you can trade your dignity for protection, that's long been the case in human society, and never once has it been the basis for divinity.
You're not a SovCit, are you?
>>47260603
Because worshiping powerful beings who's very will alters reality is... silly?
I mean, even on it's face, that's a pretty stupid argument. They can't alter literally everything, so they don't deserve worship? Then again, I wonder what this guy thinks worship is.
>>47260618
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/judge-iran-tells-prisoner-if-youre-innocent-youll-go-heaven-after-youre-hanged-1559939
>>47260627
>Because worshiping powerful beings who's very will alters reality is... silly?
Yes, you believe that but why are you trying to say it here of all places?
do you believe anyone in this thread worships powerful beings who alter reality?
>>47260643
No, I'm explaining his point of view. I think he's being an idiot. People in a setting with Gods that are present and knowable--or really just actually there--have every reason to worship them.
Again, it's paying spiritual taxes. You prey to the shrine of the shark deity three times a week and offer fishcakes and it makes sure your boat doesn't capsize. Unless it feels like it.
>>47260627
Man it's not part of the discussion but fuck SovCits, fucking idiotic terrorist fucks.
>>47260643
I'm sure there's the odd religious person that plays WoD, I could swear i've seen some people mention their religion in these threads.
>>47260713
I'm religious, but I can separate what I believe to be the truth from the shared storytelling game we play.live by example.
So, how can we fix Leviathan?
>>47260740
don't play it.
So I wanted to talk about Geist, but I can see you guys are all busy right now so I'll come back later
>>47260740
I'd never say somethin' against ya man unless you're militant about your stuff.
But obviously the only way to fix it is to take over for the dood/doods making it or get them to fucking work harder.
>>47260740
Get a good concept.
Find a fun way to play it.
Add powers, fluff fluff.
>>47260777
No please, come back.
I keep wanting to work on my Homebrew, but I keep expecting Geist 2e to be announced right around the corner, so even less people would play my homebrew than the already zero people who play it now, but at the same time it won't be out until like 2018 and I want to be able to play Geist stuff before then. Also I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm basically working alone.
>>47260603
Because there's an annoying trend on /tg/ towards humanizing and even bastardizing the divine, towards calling nearly anything that might overpower you a god. There was a thread the other day where someone tried to claim a big elk was a god. It's simply preposterous.
>>47260627
>The God-Machine is not an alien, that's not explicit at all, in fact I'm pretty sure it's said otherwise.
No, it's very clearly not actually a god and is some very powerful being with an agenda, almost certainly an extraterrestrial.
>You're not a SovCit, are you?
I'm no fucking lolbercuck shitter.
>>47260831
Well there are some godlike deer/elk, just look at the Elk God or whatever in Princess Mononoke.
>>47260571
How about we throw around ideas for a werewolf lodge?
>>47260643
Praise the Throne Baby.
>>47260831
What the fuck is a lolbercuck shitter.
>>47260898
Is there a lodge based around keeping rank 6+ spirits deep in slumber and not fucking around the world? Like in my current game I have a pack of Ghost Wolves that tend to Yellow Stone and try to keep the Megavolcano asleep and not fucking poping off.
I am have been invited to a WoD Mage game. 2nd edition, so no avatar storm cutting off space adventures, but doisetep got botch-paradox-nuked out of existence. I've got a character all done up, concept and stats and everything.
I'm coming from a dungeons and dragons sort of background, so sphere magic is more than a bit strange to me, as a concept. Can someone lay out how to wrap my head around such a wide-open/vague set of mechanics? Are there some good yardsticks for magic use that aren't in the book?
>>47260831
The God-Machine is pretty Godlike, and also not an alien.
Also, that's not "some /tg/ thing", that's how religions work. You just don't understand religions and indigenous culture.
>>47260937
>What the fuck is a lolbercuck shitter.
Ask yourself "do I really want to know the answer to this question?"
>>47260818
Speaking of which the Pack and Mage 2E has loads of great ideas and stats to work with for Aspel: Geist the Remake.
Such as allowing Sin-Eaters to repair body tilts by spending plasm.
>>47260950
Well yes I do, that's why I asked, though I guess I shoulda just gone to /pol/ or /int/ to ask about it. But if I did that they might not know or get a bunch of different answers.
>>47260937
That sound like a cool lodge actually. I myself planed for a god machine project to keep it from exploding. That is if I ever planed using yellow stone.
>>47260941
>Spheres
Anon, are you playing Ascension or Awakening? They have two different rule sets.
>>47260937
>Is there a lodge based around keeping rank 6+ spirits deep in slumber and not fucking around the world? Like in my current game I have a pack of Ghost Wolves that tend to Yellow Stone and try to keep the Megavolcano asleep and not fucking poping off.
there's probably dozens, lodges seem to be very common
that specific idea sounds like the lodge of harmony or the lodge of wrath, and espcially the lodge of the storm's eye
>A lodge with ancient binding magic that seeks to find the biggest, baddest spirits in the Shadow and bind them to their will.
>>47261021
I'd have done that too, honestly I probably should have considering my player likes the GMC more than they like Werewolf.
Honestly the main reason I decided Yellow Stone was because of my disapointment in Firewatch. I expected Cthulhu or something man an got nothing. So now I'm having someone fuck around with a ghost wolf in the middle of a giant forest fire trying to fight off a rebirth spirit that thinks Yellow Stone needs a good fire to make everything new and 'fresh'.
>>47260962
That's a good idea. I guess since I'm not actually doing anything other than arguing with the idiot that I should just take a shower to clear my head and think of things for Geist 1.5. It really does feel weird rewriting an existing game...
>>47261025
He means Ascension 2e.
>>47260989
Is knowing the answer to some /pol/ meme term going to improve your life?
>>47260937
There's that one Lodge keeping the Ominous Something asleep under Antarctica, but their whole schtick is that they've become corrupted by proximity to it.
>>47261066
Oh shit I know which one you're talking about, but I was going for more uh... Wardens of Gods kinda thing, not a pack of wolves getting corrupted by a strange spirit/idigam under the ice.... Isn't that the H.P. Lovecraft story, actually? Or game?
>>47261061
Well no, but does it have to improve my life?
>>47261035
I'll go look into those lodges.
>>47261091
>I'll go look into those lodges.
Might check out Storm's Eye first, it seems on the money.
It says binding to their will but the idea is just that they're too powerful to kill or have running loose, so they bind them into near-slumber.
>>47261091
The Lodge of the Lake, yeah. I wasn't suggesting your Lodge be corrupted like they are, but rather say that having one based around guarding something dormant and geographically specific has a precedent in canon.
Lovecraft's story is At The Mountains of Madness, and the thing in that story is kind enough to just eat everyone. I think there's a VR game based on it in the works.
>>47261139
Doesn't like, one guy live? but yeah there's a greenlight game on steam about the Mountain of madness. But I was thinking of a point and click Lovecraft game actually.
But yeah I'ma read those lodges an stuff for fun, might help with my Yellow Stone game.
>>47261061
another idea how about using plasm to reduce the severity of poisons and sickness one grade of severity per plasm spent. Perhaps instead on a greater tolerance to it.
>>47260937
>What the fuck is a lolbercuck shitter.
It's a portmanteau of lolbertard (itself a portmanteau of lolbertarian (lolbertarian being a pejorative variant of libertarian) and retard) and cuck.
In other words, a lolbercuck is a libertarian, a faggot that believes in "muh markets" and "muh liberty", basically one step away from ancapistan.
>>47261139
Yeah, but it was a shoggoth, the eldritch equivalent of a tractor. That is the actual nicest of monsters frozen under Antarctica for a billion years.
>>47261300
So the religion guy is a statist or a fascist?
>>47261337
Aren't the things that made the city nicer than the Shoggoths? Or well, 'nicer' in comparison to anything else in Lovecraft cosmology.
>>47261418
>So the religion guy is a statist or a fascist?
I believe in something like absolutist technocratic rule, but I'll settle for a gene engineered monarch, civic nationalism, or even a Rawlsian republic.
>>47261418
>So the religion guy is a statist or a fascist?
Magefag, he was going to get around to pointing out the Supernal.
>>47261418
>Aren't the things that made the city nicer than the Shoggoths? Or well, 'nicer' in comparison to anything else in Lovecraft cosmology.
The shoggoths made the city, they're construction workers and slaves. But they built it for the elder things.
>>47261482
>Magefag, he was going to get around to pointing out the Supernal.
Not far off, actually. I'm primarily an Ascensionfag.
>>47261495
>TFW oWoD is gonna get dragged through the dirt even more because of this faggot.
It's rough liking oWoD.
>>47261576
It's just WoD. CofD is not the World of Darkness.
>>47261576
Wraith and Demon are great, and Ascension is a really fun goofy urban fantasy game. Fuck the rest of the oWoD though, except for Dark Ages.
>>47261606
One World of Darkness.
>>47261606
I know I know man, I'm still not totally translated alright?
>>47261629
Oh shit senpai, I like most of WoD, only things I don't really jive with is hunter and mummy. Can't wait for Wraith 20 to get out so I can finally delve deep into that shit, though.
>>47261673
I don't dislike Hunter, I just way prefer the approach nWoD/CofD took with it. oWoD Mummy looks pretty stupid from the glance I've given it.
I don't /hate/ the oWoD, it all just feels like a hyperviolent cartoon more than a collection of horror games and it bugs me when people try to act like Apocalypse is some masterpiece of existential angst.
>>47261749
Ahaha, oh shit what, people treat oWoof like an existential angst? Shit man, I just like fucking around with spirits and tribal politics with a bit of pentex raiding. But shit, I like everything but the combat in almost every gameline, but that means I'm playing oWoof 'wrong' but whatever, I have fun.
>>47261629
I have to say I came into ascencion skeptical and ended up really liking it. The whole technocracy as a goverment conspiracy is kinda cheesy though. I think if I ever ran it I'd fluff them as an anti-mage group on equal footing.
>>47261849
I find the traditions cheesy as hell
>>47261849
At least the Technocracy is a coherent faction. The Traditions only have "we're not the Technocracy!" tying them together.
>tfw the Disparates in M20 are cool but no Hem-Ka Sobk made it into the book
>>47261873
I enjoy them, since the game is based on belief rather than some link to the supernal its interesting to see several groups with different interpretations of magic working together.
Hilarious when a wizened Hermetic order mage who spends all his time studying books gets outmagicked by a hippie who took his acid trip too seriously.
>>47261946
They've had a history of not liking each other and the techocracy killing all of them on a habitaul basis. I think there's reasoning for that.
>>47261977
>Hilarious when a wizened Hermetic order mage who spends all his time studying books gets outmagicked by a hippie who took his acid trip too seriously.
Yeah I just play games for more than lolrandumb situations
>>47251843
Speaking from experience with a long crossover game, Sin-eaters are considerably STRONK-er at the shit that they do than a similar XP Mage could ever hope to, but lack the Mage's versatility.
Also, a Mummy, but that's kind of cheating because they don't scale much with XP but are ludicrously powerful to start with.
>>47262019
Well its based on belief and willpower, so there's this integral question of "if the idea that dominates is the idea that's right, what is the best idea to follow?"
Do we really want a world where druggies can beat studious people?
>>47262088
>Do we really want a world where druggies can beat studious people?
We do live in a world where druggies beat studious people.
How do people feel about the ability to design your own Attainments within a Legacy rather than just learning the ones someone else could teach you?
>>47262411
I forgot to check how MtAw2e does this, but the 1e rule was you just advanced the prereq by 1 gnosis when you construct your own attainments, as going off the beaten path means it's more difficult. And thats what I've run largely.
Its pretty cool although the bargaining process with the GM can be pretty vicious.
>>47262451
I thought in 1e you had to build your own Legacy as a whole in order to have that option.
>>47262411
That was technically always a possibility. But like >>47262451 says, without detailed guidelines, it's a bit of a crapshoot. I already feel that way about Creative Thaumaturgy. It's a great idea, but players and GMs are never going to agree on things.
>>47262459
You can alter an existing legacy. I wanted my character to get tricked into becoming a Scelestus, then refocus it into a Legacy about overcoming the Abyss (since the generic Scelestus Legacy was like the only Moros one with Death/Spirit as Ruling).
>>47262459
Nah, its available at all levels of the legacy, IE you can hurtle the train off the rails at the last attainment if you want.
So, going back to the Geist thing.
What are some of the things people didn't like about Geist? Mechanically, that is.
What do you think of this template so far?
>>47262479
Creative thaumaturgy has slightly stricter rules and a MUCH greater volume of precedents to call upon for what is possible.
The difficulty with legacy attainments is that the only attainments you can be CERTAIN are balanced are the "Cast X rote/rotes as an attainment" ones and those are by far the most boring.
>>47262533
>Literally can't die
>Exploitable key/manifestation combos
Most of my problems with geist are in the lack of useful fluff. The game has zero drive. The mechanics, meh.
>>47262553
But the not being able to die thing is great.
Also, I intend to add a few carrot and stick options. Like a simple "no, you can't turn your ability to see dead people off with a Willpower roll". Also things like XP bribery and a mechanic that punishes not doing the thing the game wants you to do, the way that Werewolves must hunt.
>>47262579
Oh yeah, that's my biggest mechanical problem.
Your geist has no mechanical way to really get its way, and has no mechanical set up for wth it wants.
It is sort of the pokemon problem in PTU. The ST is stuck either representing all of these Geists and trying to represent them wanting stuff despite the players having no real IC reason to listen, or the ST lets the players control the Geists and absolutely nothing gets done.
Okay I have a question, what the FUCK is the point of Fathers Form? Like, it doesn't seem to give you reason to buy it beyond furry sex and appearing as a wolf-god like figure to mortals. I don't mind things have a nice roleplay use or lore thing but... Seriously, the fuck is the point of this facet.
>>47262669
Have armor built for garou form. Sense clothing and armor meld into your form use fathers form to done the armor.
Bam now when you rage your in riot armor.
>>47262624
I'm giving the Geist a system similar to Frenzy or Kuruth, only instead of murder, they indulge in hedonism. At the most basic form, Geists have a Passion that serves as an Aspiration (or maybe a Virtue/Vice, still not sure which is better, or just gives Plasm back). If you keep failing to indulge them, they'll force you into Fervor, where they get to take the reins. It's essentially roleplaying the Geist as a second character.
One of my goals is to make the Geist feel unique and interesting and meaningful. I'm on the fence about creating "ghost Kiths". Essentially what type of Geist you've got giving you some bit of power.
>>47262669
>it doesn't seem to give you reason to buy it beyond furry sex
You answered your own question.
There are a lot of furry CofD fans, and the facet is obvious pandering.
Luna's Embrace, the sex change facet of the same Gift, serves the same purpose for the "gender fluid" special pronoun crowd that also seems to be a vocal part of the fanbase. If there was any doubt, just read the sidebar on p. 294.
>>47262720
Why would you need Father's Form to don armor?
Will we see more X20 Dark Ages stuff?
I know Wraith never got one.
>>47262732
>>47262669
>I can't imagine anyone doing this for any reason other than to jerk off
Just because that's all you think about doesn't mean everyone else has that problem.
>>47262755
Because doing things like "putting on clothes" and "not murdering everyone" is difficult in "murder every living fucker in sight" form.
>>47262669
That is its purpose. It's a mechanically non-useful power for people who want to casually be in Gauru for ritualistic or aesthetic reasons, including sex and ceremony.
>>47262770
I listed a reason other than sex dood, come on. >>47262778
Alright I guess that makes sense.
>>47262755
The shear amount of time needed to put on Garou swat armor. Apparently it takes 45 minutes to do so.
>>47262766
From the looks of it while it is still to early to tell (Warith 20th's not out, dark ages isn't out.) they seem to be leaning to a possibly/don't get your hopes up.
>>47262770
>>47262789
Clothes change with the forms. You could don armor in Hishu or Dalu and it will still be there in Garou. Why the hell would you buy custom Garou armor?
Face it, Father's Form is nothing more than servicing the furry fanbase as well as those few people who still haven't really accepted that werewolves in Forsake aren't the same as those in classic Apocalypse.
It also explains the WW TTRPG abortion known as Changing Breeds.
>>47262850
Except for the fact that the book says clothing and immediate possessions shift with her, subsuming into her body in Gauru, Urshul, or Urhan form, or stretching to fit Dalu, whatever makes the most sense for the scene.
Face it, your stretching for a reason to hate it.
>>47262850
>why would you buy custom Garou armor?
I.AM.A.WEREWOLF!
>>47262850
Clothes merge into you when you change. They don't shift form with you.
I don't know if I'd allow "I have body armour on in my other form", but the rules don't actually allow for your armour to shift with you from human to Gauru.
Also... seriously, why do you care so much even if that is the reason? It just seems so petty and whiny. It's a game about shamanism and shapeshifting. I'm pretty sure the Gauru technically have no secondary sexual characteristics to begin with. Not everything is just "furries furries furries, it's a furry game!"
>>47262766
Hopefully not, then we can focus on the good CofD stuff
>>47262904
I believe this falls under cthulhu in power armor.
Why does an unstoppable monster need armor?
>>47262934
Because armor works against aggravated damage. Which Garou form does not heal.
>>47262910
Yeah I'm like 80% sure werewolves do not in fact have secondary (Possibly primary) sexual features, but they end up having them in art because... I dunno, people are used to it I guess.
>>47262970
Because hot werewolf dickings, this is 4chan, you can say it.
Thick werewolf dick follows rule of lewd (cousin to the rule of cool). If it is necessary, it is present.
>>47262963
Do you often fight people whom have balls big enough not to shit themselves, and have silver bullets. Yer a giant fucking monster that moves fast and can rip people in haft with easy.
If so yer running some trashy hack and slash.
