Previous Thread: >>47215742
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The Pack has released!
http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-the-pack/
>Buy it if you like it
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/181760?affiliate_id=13&src=TheOnyxPath
>Try it if you can't
http://www.mediafire.com/download/n7htcqyqk0y0acy/%5BWtF%5DThe_Pack.PDF
In light of The Pack: What's your group like? What is their "pack" like, and how do they get their Allies involved in their supernatural shenanigans? Do they loop their allies in, or do they treat them like mushrooms? (Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit)
>>47229703
A werewolf who doesn't kill won't burst into flames or vanish in a puff of smoke, so in that sense they don't have to. But it gets under their skin. Avoiding the hunt is denying all your instincts, that inclination toward bestial rage and violent dominance that fills the Uratha. It wears at your self-control, it threatens your Harmony, it's demoralizing and agitating. It's like a normal person giving up sex, or social contact, or adhering to a strict diet of rice and chicken breast and absolutely nothing else forever and ever.
It's doable, but you're miserable during it and very likely to snap at some point- more explosively, for a werewolf, given the Harmony shifting opens them up to the risk of Basu-Im.
>>47229571
A verge is specifically a place where the Supernal overlaps the Fallen. Avernian gates are a type of iris, a gateway that allows you to travel between worlds.
>>47229749
Cant you hunt in a constructive and positive way? Just buy some deer tags and go camping for a week or so.
>>47229749
>It's like a normal person giving up sex, or social contact
There is must be imageboard for werewolves who do not hunt
>>47229745
Primal Urge determines how often they HAVE to hunt something, and since hunting involves all five forms,that WILL end in something being dead.
>>47229766
You're still denying your instincts in that case. Werewolves don't feel compelled to mindlessly kill; their spirits aren't soothed by a peaceful fishing trip that ends with sawing a catfish's head off.
They like the Hunt. The thrill of a pack testing itself. Adrenaline-filled group predation. Humans are prey, as are spirits.
A werewolf can deny this and refuse, but it's bad for Harmony long-term and increases the risks of Basu-Im, which will lead to death and destruction.
It's also, again, just not really a concern in-character. Werewolves aren't humans. A pacifist werewolf or one who finds hunting distasteful is a weird anomaly; even ghost wolves feel the urge, even wolf-blooded have the inklings of primal instinct.
>>47229789
those poor fa/tg/auru
>>47229811
Hunting deer isnt just a peaceful vacation. Talk to most hunters and it is a grueling endurance test.
I just mean instead of randomly killing people in the city do it in a constructive and not suspicious way. Or maybe your character has reservations with taking a human life.
>>47229789
are there any Lodges in Russia or Eastern Europe?
>>47229819
So hunt spirits. They get back up after a regular hunt; it takes an extreme and specific kind of violence to keep them down forever.
And yes, most packs don't waste their time "randomly" killing people; there aren't enough werewolves in the world to have them dicking around. Every hunt has a purpose, if only from the pack's perspective, some material good that it accomplishes.
>>47229746
>>47229703
>>47229749
>do werewolves ACTUALLY have to kill or is it all the religious and tribal dogma?
>Primal Urge determines how often they HAVE to hunt something, and since hunting involves all five forms,that WILL end in something being dead.
Hunting doesn't necessarily involve murder. Eaters of the Dead in particular do their best to avoid murdering humans, due to their ̶L̶o̶d̶g̶e̶ Tribal Ban, which would require they use the bones and eat the flesh of their prey.
Werewolves also tend to be unsatisfied hunting only deer. They need a Predator style challenge. Each Tribe and many of the Lodges is all about deciding which prey is the most worthy.
Werewolves can and do Hunt in ways that don't involve an explicit kill, but the ones that tend to do so are usually only doing it because they're going after mortals, or powerful spirits that they want to cow but not kill. In fact, besting a Spirit in the Hunt could be a good way to get a powerful ally to respect you. Wanting a Human prey to face justice from the legal system (or get mauled by their own forces) is a good example of when a Werewolf might want to spare Prey. The Burn Notice or Leverage crews, for instance. Blood Talons might also interpret their Tribal Vow to allow for them to show mercy, or provide a "next time we won't stop when our jaws are at your throat" threat.
>>47229819
Most human hunters are hiking into the woods and waiting patiently in the outdoors. They're not several hundred pound killing machines that could track prey across oceans and cut through a steel wall.
>>47229760
In 1e, a Verge was where Shadow overlapped with the material. I thought in 2e it would be a more general phenomena, where any two realms could overlap.
>>47229838
>>47229841
Alright then fair enough.
It seems to me that werewolf lacks a bit of direction. Honestly I kind of find that with most of the nWoD games. Except for Hunter which is just Kill monsters,Capture monsters, study monsters or a combination there of.
Maybe I just need to read more to understand it.
I also just really liked oWoD werewolves.
>>47229819
>Hunting deer isnt just a peaceful vacation.
Hunting a deer is trivial for a werewolf. It's jerking off when a (wo)man hasn't touched you for years. A bit of fun, but it's not what you want.
That said, werewolves don't typically randomly kill people in a city. That can easily cause problems. Kill humans causing trouble for your territory or your pack. Kill spirits. Hell, even kill animals, if you're hungry.
>>47229841
>Hunting doesn't necessarily involve murder. Eaters of the Dead in particular do their best to avoid murdering humans, due to their ̶L̶o̶d̶g̶e̶ Tribal Ban, which would require they use the bones and eat the flesh of their prey.
Sure, but Eaters of the Dead aren't the norm. The books make it abundantly clear Hunts typically end in death and that murdering humans is a thing werewolves do.
>>47229866
Werewolf has a TON of direction BECAUSE you're out there killing monsters and protecting your turf. Most of the games have really strong narrative focus, aside from Vampire.
>>47229878
>The books make it abundantly clear Hunts typically end in death and that murdering humans is a thing werewolves do.
I know. That's why I listed reasons a Pack might not kill prey, and justifications for that.
>>47229921
Eh I suppose. Like what I mean is for example in oWoD your goal is to fuck with the Wyrm and in nWoD its to protect your turf? To be spirit police? Again maybe I am just ignorant.
>>47229986
The goal of the Forsaken is to advance their pack and uphold Father Wolf's legacy as guardian of the boundaries. They're apex predators who ensure human and spirit do not mix inappropriately, while cultivating both the human and spirit worlds for harmonious (or profitable) harvests.
You got a little kid who goes to a local school? Well, maybe you're going to focus more attention on policing the spirits that linger there, feeding on and encouraging the tense emotions of stressed-out teachers, anxiety-ridden kids, etc., etc. Then there's the Hosts, the Pure, other packs, mankind.. all sorts of shit.
>>47230034
I guess its me liking the way nWoD was set up. With clear definable enemies and goals. I am not a DM so the open endedness I dont particularly care for. If I play with someone who can create an interesting enough story I might like it more.
>>47229986
"Fuck with the Wyrm" is a very limiting aspect. It's pretty much impossible to do anything in werewolf other than join the Garou Nation's incompetent terrorism missions. "Protect your turf" is a much more meaningful and personal focus, especially with all the various ways that can be expressed.
>>47230054
I assume you mean "me liking the way oWoD was set up".
Which, again, if you want to be an ecoterrorist and only an ecoterrorist, sure, Apocalypse is a great game. But if you want to do anything even slightly outside of that incredibly narrow scope, it's a lot harder.
"Hunt things" is as broad a possibility space as you can get for a game about people who are part spirit and turn into 9 foot tall murder machines when they get pissed off.
>>47230079
its not even the eco terrorist angle which in of itself is fun but its more about me wanting a bit of direction. Like I sure if I actually played the game with a good DM I might like it more.
And protecting your turf I find a bit more boring then attacking Pentex tbqhwyf
>>47230102
>And protecting your turf I find a bit more boring then attacking Pentex
Thing is: attacking some corporate holdings is totally a thing in Forsaken, if that corporation is somehow an obstacle to you. Don't like that McDonalds is opening another franchise in your old neighborhood and driving out local ma and pa cheeseburgers? Time to rip out Ronald's heart.
>>47230128
>Time to rip out Ronald's heart.
Can this creepy clown come alive if nearby Infrastructure has a leak or something?
>>47230128
But they are not actively evil unlike Pentex.
>>47230148
Well, sure, but that's because Pentex was a cartoon villain. There are still awful people in the world, and corporations do awful things.
>>47230172
>was a cartoon villain
The best kinds of villains.
>>47230102
Forsaken HAS focus. It just has more potential things that you can focus on, and more ways to go about it.
This is essentially one of the two main differences between oWoD and nWoD: oWoD has one singular dominant player option and any deviation from it becomes significantly more difficult. This is what Metaplot is. It's "this is the way the game works and this is what you will do". nWoD on the other hand instead gives you several options and a framework to create your own stories that focus on what you want. Werewolf has several themes about anger issues, pushing away the ones you love, creating a family, working together, and dealing with things that are beyond your understanding, and it gives focus with Urum Da Takas: "The Wolf Must Hunt". How you hunt, what you hunt, and why you hunt are up to you.
You can play Apocalypse style games in Forsaken.
You can't play Forsaken style games in Apocalypse.
.
(The second major difference is that oWoD uses stereotypes while nWoD uses archetypes)
Guys, likes oWoD. He's a lost case.
>>47230202
oWoD have Wraith.
>>47230191
Your not wrong and I get it.
>>47230202
I like both actually. I just like them both for different reasons.
>>47229878
Oh come on, don't tell me hunting (deer) isn't going to be decently challenging for a werewolf. It certainly is for a human or for a wolf, and they don't have much in the way of free tools that helps more than a human's gun or a wolf's speed.
>>47230409
>Oh come on, don't tell me hunting (deer) isn't going to be decently challenging for a werewolf
That's exactly what I'm telling you. Werewolves are vastly superior to both humans and wolves.
>>47230409
what? :D
>>47230409
What?
Werewolves would have zero difficulty hunting a deer. They're stronger, faster, and can track like superstars.
>>47230449
They're stronger (virtually irrelevant for hunting a durr). As far as being faster...? What is the difference in speed between a werewolf that turns into a wolf vs a wolf?
All this is sans gifts, obviously.
>>47229986
>Like what I mean is for example in oWoD your goal is to fuck with the Wyrm and in nWoD its to protect your turf? To be spirit police? Again maybe I am just ignorant.
I honestly think you would come around after a more thorough readthru of the material. If you want big "canon enemies", look into the Hosts, Maeljin, Idigam, Pure; if you want "canon bigbad corps", maybe look into Hunter; if you want focused settings with unique setups of status quo and shit to do, look into the sample cities at the end of core books (and The Pack) etc.
CofD's toolbox approach, albeit a huge boon of the games, can be at the same time a barrier to those who're trying to approach from oWoD. Don't make the mistake of judging the games too early, based on half-truths and mis(sing)information.
Anyone run a game with "network" party? I mean characters using web to communicate and do stuff together.
>>47230485
Strength is pretty important when you're hunting with your claws and fangs. That's why it takes a pack of real wolves.
As for speed, Urhan get +5 Speed, but instead of using Stamina+Athletics in a chase, they use Speed, as a dice pool. They also get to use a Celerity type ability. And that's aside from the Urshul's ability to cripple targets with even a grazing attack.
I don't have the animal stats on me, though
>>47230564
>Don't make the mistake of judging the games too early
I am honestly not. Its just my PoV from only gleaming bits and pieces here and there.
>>47230606
>Strength is pretty important when you're hunting with your claws and fangs.
Well okay, my point is that one wolf chasing down a Bambi all over the place isn't easy by any stretch. I'd also only expect killing it to be easy for a lone werewolf if they just use Down and Dirty
>>47230628
>Its just my PoV from only gleaming bits and pieces here and there
>based on half-truths and mis(sing)information
>>47230647
i never said it was an accurate point of view and I admitted all the time I am probably wrong. Stop putting words in my mouth.
>>47230661
And all I've said was read the book before asking about basic things you can't know aren't in the book because you haven't read it yet. It's for your own good. If it really does interest you.
>>47230628
That's judging something too early.
>>47230644
It's incredibly easy, to the point that there likely won't be much of a chase to begin with. It would take a human hunter a weekend to hunt a deer. It'll take an Uratha pack a few hours at most, but more likely no more than ten minutes to find and bring down a deer from the moment they set foot in the forest. And they're not going to go for Bambi in the first place, they're going to chase down the silver stag that locals think is a myth. The Great White Stag might be a suitable challenge, but it's not going to be anything near what Sacred Prey can offer.
>>47230661
>>47230676
This conversation isn't really going anywhere. You both have valid viewpoints. Don't harass people for not having read the books; don't argue about how things are or aren't when you're just gleaning bits and pieces. Or at the very least, ask questions instead of making statements.
>>47229656
Some werewolves are born of werewolves.
>>47229703
They don't have to kill. The hunt does not have to end in death (some lodges disagree, if you don't want to kill, don't join them).
>>47229746
>and since hunting involves all five forms,that WILL end in something being dead.
This is incorrect.
>>47229749
>A werewolf who doesn't kill won't burst into flames or vanish in a puff of smoke, so in that sense they don't have to. But it gets under their skin.
This is also not true. The writers and developer has covered this in the forums, and the book doesn't say a hunt has to end in death.>>47229766
>Cant you hunt in a constructive and positive way? Just buy some deer tags and go camping for a week or so.
Killing monsters can be constructive and positive. Things like the hosts wreck lives and environments.
But you can also hunt for things like an ancient relic.
>>47229878
>Sure, but Eaters of the Dead aren't the norm. The books make it abundantly clear Hunts typically end in death and that murdering humans is a thing werewolves do.
Killing humans is a thing werewolves do, it's not a thing all werewolves do.
>>47230762
>This is also not true.
It's absolutely true. Refusing the Hunt is unnatural for werewolves. The book makes this abundantly clear- hell, avoiding Siskur-Dah makes your Harmony go out of whack.
> and the book doesn't say a hunt has to end in death.
Not all Hunts end in death. The vast majority do.
>>47230777
Eating meat is a thing humans do, not a thing all humans do. But you're still correct when you say most people eat meat, and most werewolves don't have problems killing humans. They're prey.
How would you make Judge Doom in WtF? I'm thinking he is someone who was Claimed by a Magath, probably Humor and Sadism (It Claimed him because it thought puppeting him into violently killing people was funny, it can only act if the action in question would be considered funny, that's its Ban.)
>>47230777
Even vampires can feed responsibly, so whatever. If we all agree to not kill each other hunter can go and find a real job.
>>47230148
>But they are not actively evil unlike Pentex.
They CAN be. It's the Chronicles of Darkness, Cheiron exists to harvest supernaturals and use their body parts to make super soldiers. There's Blood Farms in the UK where vampires gather immigrants and continuously drain them of blood. There's no end of evil corporations if you want.
>>47230102
>its not even the eco terrorist angle which in of itself is fun but its more about me wanting a bit of direction. Like I sure if I actually played the game with a good DM I might like it more.
All direction requires is a big bad. You're just not limited to it being the Wyrm. Maybe the Mayor is Claimed, or there's an ancient spirit destined to be unleashed in the shadow that will wreck -everything-, or the hosts are in town (in the story in the 2e core they kill thousands through unleashing of diseases), or another werewolf pack that has made allies with all those baddies.
>>47230789
>It's absolutely true. Refusing the Hunt is unnatural for werewolves. The book makes this abundantly clear- hell, avoiding Siskur-Dah makes your Harmony go out of whack.
Actually a lot of ghost wolves resist the call to hunt, the sample GW did, it just brings you up to humanity 10 and you rage like a movie werewolf.
But I was saying that the sacred hunt isn't required to end in death and
>The vast majority do.
isn't a thing
>>47230839
>Actually a lot of ghost wolves resist the call to hunt, the sample GW did, it just brings you up to humanity 10 and you rage like a movie werewolf.
Right. It's unnatural and stresses you out. Which is exactly what I said. What are you arguing, exactly?
>isn't a thing
Wrong on all levels. There is absolutely a norm for hunts. The visceral violent bloodiness of it permeates every chapter and description of it. Whether it's the examples in the auspice pages or bits of dialogue in chapter fiction, you have to willfully ignore the text to conclude a majority of Hunts are not lethal affairs.
>>47230877
>Right. It's unnatural and stresses you out. Which is exactly what I said. What are you arguing, exactly?
That the sacred hunt, and hunting in general doesn't need to lead to death, which is what you said
here
>A werewolf who doesn't kill won't burst into flames or vanish in a puff of smoke, so in that sense they don't have to. But it gets under their skin.
and here
You're still denying your instincts in that case. Werewolves don't feel compelled to mindlessly kill; their spirits aren't soothed by a peaceful fishing trip that ends with sawing a catfish's head off.
>Resolution: The prey is brought down (a kill is not
necessary) or the pack breaks off the Siskur-Dah by taking any
significant actions towards ends other than the hunt.
there's the resolution for sacred hunt
killing is separate from the hunt
Regarding Forsaken, Death Rage is ass. Complete ass. Irredeemable ass. Apocalypse's Rage and frenzy system were vastly superior.
>>47230906
>That the sacred hunt, and hunting in general doesn't need to lead to death, which is what you said
The Hunt does not lead to death necessarily. Werewolves are still killers.
You really have to completely ignore the book to think the way you do, so I'm not sure how to talk to you about it. What do you think it means when the Cahalith howls about death? What do you think clamping the prey's neck between your teeth means? What do you think you do to Hosts and Claimed and all other sorts of beasts?
Ejaculating is separate from sex.
I am a newbie narrator who's going to run a mortals game.
Are there any resources for Cod / nWod 2nd ed narrators? Like a print friendly rules screen?
There are a couple ambiguities in the rules, I took a look on the archives but with no avail.
Page 70 of the core book: when to use resisted or contested action. Resisted if the number of successes counts.
On the the very same page the first common actions example seems to contradict it. 'Argument' is resisted, but you just need one success so you convince the target, further ones does not give you advantage of any sort.
(This is apart from exceptional success rules.)
>>47230935
>What do you think it means when the Cahalith howls about death? What do you think clamping the prey's neck between your teeth means? What do you think you do to Hosts and Claimed and all other sorts of beasts?
These werewolves have decided to hunt to the death.
>>47230949
And they're the norm.
>>47230948
>'Argument' is resisted
Doesn't the social maneuvering system later in the book (the whole "Doors" thing) care about how many successes you get? Either way, if it seems wrong to you, just change it—no one's gonna care if arguing with an NPC is now a contested roll.
Don't let yourself get bogged down in the mechanics. Thats a good lesson to learn as a Storyteller. You can always improvise a decent ruling on the spot when you've forgotten a specific rule—but improvising a compelling story on the spot when you haven't prepared for one is much harder.
>>47230922
care to refresh our memories with specifics?
>>47230922
it lets you stay in Gauru indefinitely. All bashing & lethal healed every turn. If you're not facing something significantly more powerful than a werewolf, and if the entire pack is in death rage together, it's pretty good for dealing with most things.
>>47231078
Actually, the shenanigans with Gauru being a temporary form for some idiotic reason are a major part of the problem.
So this film is WoD related yeah?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QK2T7I5uUA
>>47231109
You'll have to elaborate for me.
>>47231109
You can use the fathers form gift to stay in it outside of fights if you're the kind of fag who likes to use werewolf to do furry shit
otherwise it's because the werewolf is very scary and powerful and having garuo permanently would be ridiculous
>>47231121
How is it any more ridiculous than anything else about werewolves? Like, where the hell is the ridiculousness line drawn?
>>47231146
>How is it any more ridiculous than anything else about werewolves? Like, where the hell is the ridiculousness line drawn?
at the point where you can't go garou all the time
it's an pretty easy game to understand
>>47231121
the thing is that if you give in to death rage you get a full fifteen minutes of gauru at Primal Urge 1
more than enough to kill anything that moves.
>>47231162
That's not the point. The point is that I prefer all five forms being equally natural and equally a part of what you are, not just temporary enhancement in one form's case.
I also prefer the idea of three different breeds, instead of just one.
>>47231162
>he thing is that if you give in to death rage you get a full fifteen minutes of gauru at Primal Urge 1
10
>more than enough to kill anything that moves.
thats just it
on one hand, you kill baddie john, nowyou're raging for another 9 minutes and there's completely unrelated people to kill (uincluding wolfblooded, weres who drop out of rage early, random bystadners and cops)
on the other, john baddie dips into twilight and makes his escape
you've blacked out, you wake up in the miadst of distruction, but you don't remember john getting away and now he's plotting vengeance
>>47231047
>Don't let yourself get bogged down in the mechanics
I do not. But I would to understand the system before tinkering with it.
>social maneuvering system later in the book
It is explicity stated that you can open 1 door with every 1 roll, NOT with multiple successes.
If the basics rules does not seem to be coherent, it's pretty depressing. I don't to convert everythinf to FAE orGURPS.
>>47231197
Don't gotta tell me tovarisch. I like how death rage works in 2E.
>>47231186
The Gauru form IS a natural part of an Uratha's being. It's also the vessel through which their titanic capacity for murder & violence expresses itself. The temptation to surrender to death rage when in Gauru is huge, and the time limit before death rage is there to represent how long a werewolf's rational mind can hold out against their own lust for murder.
Breeds were kind of pointless imo. There's a story in Tribes of the Moon about a family of Uratha born from wolves so there's precedent if you wanted to do breeds in Forsaken anyway. But I'm not sure why you would.
>>47231247
I admit, I still hate that interpretation. Why must Gauru create the urge for uncontrolled violence? I see no reason for it, especially since Apocalypse handled the whole rage issue far better.
It's also not just lupus I'm interested in, but metis. Those born in the werewolf form.
>>47231293
Because raging death machine is a desired part of the game's theme. Any explanations for it are merely justification.
>>47231330
And yet, Apocalypse still did "raging death machine" better.
>>47231293
Sounds like you're more interested in playing WtA
>>47231339
Not really you just like it more
>>47231339
Subjective. No point arguing.
>>47231345
I would be, except that it seems fairly universally panned and I don't know anyone who'd enjoy playing it with me.
>>47231383
Forsaken's a good game, it's not WtA2, though. It's its own game and its systems fit within its setting, which is different.
Last thread someone asked if an AI could Awaken.
The answer is: Yes. But it'd be seriously difficult.
First, it'd need to have a proper mind, a real one.
Second, it'd have to be brought to the Wellspring in the Astral realms. Which is a tricky proposition for anyone without an Amnion.
Third, it must succeed in the challenges of that place.
Fourth, it must be lucky.
But we have precedents, a Goetic being managed to Awaken through this method, and eventually ascended.
>>47229827
Of course there are. Why shouldn't there?
>>47231403
The wellspring? What's that and what book is it in? I'm super interested in the astral realms but i wasn't interested in mage until the second edition came out.
>>47231239
The social maneuvering system is totally optional, and I've never played with anyone who used it, so I can't speak much to that.
As far as any old rolls go, though: the math is gonna work out so that a Contested roll and a Resisted roll, statistically speaking, aren't that different. If it feels like it should be a Contested action to you, then decide that it's a Contested action. That's what you do as the Storyteller.
Calling the basic rules "incoherent" is a pretty big overstatement.
>>47229827
lots
here's one from czech republic
>>47231432
The Wellspring is in the Astral Realms book.
It is the realm of... either sapience or evolution. Possibly both.
It's the fountain of youth, and the fountain of wisdom, all in one. Complete with being completely ass to reach.
>>47231490
I'm assuming it's deep in the Anima Mundi?
>>47230839
>>47230877
The sample Ghost Wolf is someone who's been avoiding the Hunt and can't take it anymore and is about to Hunt someone he feels is worth killing. Not Hunting is bad for you. Even the Ghost Wolves feel the pull of Urum Da Takas.
>>47230906
>>47230935
You two are talking about two different things.
>>47231109
>>47231146
>>47231293
>>47231339
>>47231186
It is literally the curse of an insane moon goddess made manifest in the flesh of the ultimate hunter beast. You should not be able to sit around eating pizza and watching television like you could with Glabbro.
More than that, being able to use the WAR FORM outside of war and violence is strongly against many of the themes and tone of Werewolf 2e.
Just because all forms are equally useful doesn't mean all forms are equally viable at all times. Also, I'll agree that Forsaken needs a Lupus, but everything about Metis was fucking stupid.
As an aside, I'd like to hear why you think Apocalypse handles Glabbro better than Forsaken handles Gauru, duration restrictions aside. How did Apocalypse do "raging death machine" better?
>>47231247
>Breeds were kind of pointless imo. There's a story in Tribes of the Moon about a family of Uratha born from wolves so there's precedent if you wanted to do breeds in Forsaken anyway. But I'm not sure why you would.
I hate Apocalypse, but I really love the idea of being an animal that becomes human and learns to socialize from that. I had a character that I really want to do in Forsaken, based on an idea I had for an Apocalypse game. A lupus cahalith whose way of storytelling is stuff like game and graphic design. But that only works in a world where Lupus are a thing, not "oh god so special one of a kind". I just love the idea of a teenage girl who was raised as a wolf-dog pet and is ecstatic that she's got fucking HANDS and colour vision and can talk.
>>47231383
>it seems fairly universally panned
No it's not.
>>47231403
>But we have precedents, a Goetic being managed to Awaken through this method, and eventually ascended.
Who?
>>47231239
What do you have trouble with, re: coherency?
>>47231539
>But that only works in a world where Lupus are a thing, not "oh god so special one of a kind"
You could just have the setting include lupus Uratha, either regionally or globally, it's not that hard in nWoD, especially since there's "canon precedent"(not like it matters).
I'm not sure why that character idea wouldn't work in baseline Forsaken, though? It'd be weird but I wouldn't imagine a pack would be terribly upset at taking in a dog girl.
>>47231539
I'm going to assume that when you said "Glabbro" you meant Crinos, as Glabro is the near-man form. And the reason is that Crinos is more than the war-form, it's the form of perfect fusion. Why do you think there are some words in the Garou language that can only be spoken in Crinos?
As for handling better: Rage in Apocalypse isn't a curse, it's a boon with caveats. It's something whose effects can be mitigated by Gnosis and Willpower, and it's a source of power that you can tap into at will, albeit with the risk of falling into frenzy. There's no ticking clock and everything feels like it's more within the player's control.
Also, I'm pretty sure complete colorblindness is a myth.
>>47231584
>I'm not sure why that character idea wouldn't work in baseline Forsaken, though? It'd be weird but I wouldn't imagine a pack would be terribly upset at taking in a dog girl.
It's the fishmalk problem
>alright, we're going after this spirit, so you go left, hanna you get the gun
>durrr what is gun?
>fine, i'll take the gun, hanna you use the elevator
>durrr what is elevator?
>stairs?
>durrr what is stairs?
>could you stop humping my leg?
>can't! in heat!
>>47231612
Apocalypse explained this. Newly Changed lupus have extremely plastic brains and learn things at an accelerated rate, so giving them crash courses in the things they need to know doesn't take too long.
>>47231600
Rage isn't really a curse in WtF either, thats just myth that the forsaken believe like the pure believe silver is a curse from moon
it helps them from breaking their cover
>>47231644
>hanna can you get that fork for me?
>durrr, what fork?
>its...the metal thing with points on it we use to eat
>Ahahah, of course dear packmate, in fact I've devised a much better implement for delivering foods from the plate to the destination of mastication, it's even made of a new alloy of my own devising
Apocalypse handwaved it, you mean
>>47231600
I wouldn't say Apocalypse handles it "better," just differently.
Utilizing one's rage is a good thing in Apocalypse but in Forsaken the rage IS a curse.
it's an inheritance from thei Uratha's spiritual ancestor, something that isolates them from humanity and threatens to tear apart everything they care about. Gauged by that metric it's fine.
As someone said earlier, they're two different games.
>>47231651
it's totally a curse. A curse that helps you kill things, but those things often tend to be "loved ones" and "innocent bystanders."
>>47231512
Oh yes. On the borders to the Sidereal Wastes.
>>47231556
>Who?
She has no name, just the Queen of the Colony.
>>47231584
It wouldn't work because it's the kind of thing that requires ST permission. I mean, it's possible I could get that, but my general way of looking at things is that if they alter the setting in a way that would require ST permission, it's best to assume I'm the only ST who would give myself permission.
>>47231600
Crinos, yes. In fact, that's actually a good point, though: How is Glabro useful if you have no limitations on the "This, But Better" form? That Rage is a curse is a major important part of the setting in Forsaken. In Apocalypse, it's... nothing, really. It's just a name for their power stat. It doesn't have that sense of putting things on the line.
>Colourblindness
Complete, sure, but they're still red-green colourblind.
>>47231644
>>47231612
Actually the character concept was that Abby is someone who's incredibly enthralled with technology. She was a Glasswalker in Apocalypse and would be an Iron Master in Forsaken. Adapt or Die. Again, she was someone who uses digital medium to do Galliard/Cahalith things. The whole point is that she saw other people using all this technology stuff like can openers and televisions and now that she's 'human' she wants to do that as well.
>>47231673
Don't be dumb. "Learns new things fast" isn't the same as "is a genius".
>>47231682
Yea Apocalypse and Forsaken are such incredibly different games in terms of tone and the way they handle the their themes. Being A Werewolf is basically the only thing they have in common.
If you really want to play Apocalypse just play Apocalypse. Or get the Translation Guide and convert the stuff from Apocalypse you like to Forsaken. But saying "Apocalypse did X better than Forsaken" (or vice-versa) is stupid, because they're not TRYING to do the same things.
Here is the Forsaken version of Lupus, the Urhanu, as posted by Stew:
An Urhanu cannot choose Mental Skills to be primary at character creation. Worse, any time an Urhanu character attempts an action that relies on a Mental Skill in which she has no dots, her roll is automatically reduced to a chance die even if she spends Willpower on the roll. This lack of book learning doesn’t affect rolls to activate Gifts or rites. On the positive side, Urhanu start with Harmony 6. They’re also able to focus on breaching the Gauntlet to the exclusion of pretty much anything else; when Reaching treat the Gauntlet strength as one step lower (so a small town uses the Gauntlet strength of the wilderness). Urhanu can spend a point of Essence to Reach into the Shadow when not at a Locus. She can extend this facility to other packmates but must spend an additional point of Essence per packmate.
They are quite OP.
>>47231729
Glabro is the form of beating people up in public when you just want them to remember a large hairy person instead of a horrible monster. It's the combat-in-front-of-witnesses form.
Also, it's not all that infrequent for lupus Glass Walkers to be brought up as pets by Kinfolk or other Glass Walkers ("infrequent" being a relative term, as there are barely any lupus Glass Walkers in existence).
>>47231759
Cool. Is there a Metis equivalent?
>>47231777
>Glabro is the form of beating people up in public when you just want them to remember a large hairy person instead of a horrible monster. It's the combat-in-front-of-witnesses form.
Why would you ever do this, though? Why not just rip them apart in Crinos?
>>47231789
Because The Veil Shall Not Be Lifted.
>>47231741
Also spiritualism.
>>47231759
My version of a Lupus for Forsaken:
>You were born a wolf
>Your natural form is Urshan
>>47231777
>Cool. Is there a Metis equivalent?
Nope. It's nothing special in 2e. A werewolf born of werewolves is a normal werewolf.
>>47231799
>My version of a Lupus for Forsaken:
Yeah. That's how I'd run it too, but people called for mechanical differences.
>>47231896
>Nope. It's nothing special in 2e. A werewolf born of werewolves is a normal werewolf.
That's fine in my opinion, I just would have it so that Gauru is their natural form.
If we absolutely must include the travesty that is Death Rage, I'd say that spending prolonged periods of time outside Gauru form means that you become vulnerable to it again when you shift back, and would have to deal with it before it wears off and equilibrium is restored.
>>47231931
you could also just let them start with father's form.
>>47231931
>That's fine in my opinion, I just would have it so that Gauru is their natural form.
They aren't born AS werewolves, they are born as strong wolf-blooded. But until they change, their natural form is human.
>>47231931
>I'd say that spending prolonged periods of time outside Gauru form means that you become vulnerable to it again when you shift back,
You do
unless you've got the Father's Form, going into gauru is a rare thing
but you can always death rage
>>47231931
It's not a travesty. The game just does something that you don't want it to do. It works exactly as it is intended to work and exactly as the people who play the game want it to work. It does not, however, work like the old game because this is not the old game.
>>47231966
And that is what I would change. Born werewolves.
>>47231969
This Gift is dildos, frankly.
>>47232004
>And that is what I would change. Born werewolves.
But why? That kills a lot of the theme. The disconnect between normal people and Werewolves.
>This Gift is dildos, frankly.
But why? It does exactly what you want it to do, doesn't it?
>>47232004
>This Gift is dildos, frankly.
So what? You want to be able to be Gauru 24/7 without Death Rage? Why?
>>47232016
How? If anything, it reinforces it, as metis couldn't be considered human in any sense.
And the Gift does not do what I want it to do. Triggering Death Rage by making an attack in fact makes it practically worthless, in addition to the arbitrary bullshit of reducing regeneration rates and the Lunacy thing.
>>47232025
I explained this before.
>>47232071
>I explained this before.
Where? Just do it again, cause your being very unclear.
>> 47223731
>Hey Chris will we see lodges with unique gifts in the future or is that on the out in 2e?
That's on the out. Gifts are never Lodge-specific now.
>>47232071
there is a very long passage in the Storytelling chapter of Werewolf: the Forsaken 2E about Father's Form & removing the threat of death rage from Gauru entirely.
I recommend you read that.
Or just go play Apocalypse.
>>47232079
>And the reason is that Crinos is more than the war-form, it's the form of perfect fusion. Why do you think there are some words in the Garou language that can only be spoken in Crinos?
>>47232122
Gauru isn't a "perfect fusion"
Every form you take is the form of the werewolf
>>47232071
You want all of the power and none of the drawbacks.
>>47232122
And that means absolutely nothing, because it's still the War Form."It can be more useful than that" doesn't mean a fucking thing. That's still what it's for.
More than that, as >>47232135 says, there isn't a perfect fusion. Every form is the natural form of a Werewolf. A Werewolf is not shapeshifted into a Gauru, the Werewolf *IS* Gauru, just as they are Dalu and Hishu and Urshal and Urshan.
Can I just make a suggestion here, to keep this thread from once again turning into "I don't like this game because it's not enough like this other game"?
Don't fucking play Forsaken if you clearly want to play Apocalypse.
>>47232172
Right, because it still lacks the drawbacks of being unable to function in human society, causing mass panic, creating unacceptable secrecy breaches, etc, yes?
Also, the other reason I'm not going for Apocalypse right now is that it integrates poorly with nWoD, which I generally like more than oWoD.
>>47232196
>Right, because it still lacks the drawbacks of being unable to function in human society, causing mass panic, creating unacceptable secrecy breaches, etc, yes?
Just use urshul or dalu and load up with Favored Form, Fortified Form and Living Weapon.
lads. The devs planned for this argument. It's right there in the book. We're safe.
>>47232196
So just fucking do the thing that >>47232102 said. Use the Father's Form and take the advice the core book gives.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Convince us all that WtF is wrong to do things the way it does? Why? If you want to play it differently knock yourself the fuck out, but stop trying to argue that your way is somehow better, because you're not going to find much agreement here, and it's pointless anyway.
>>47232090
Any chance of stating the lodges form the core book?
>>47232196
You want to completely change a game that you don't like to be more like a game that you do. Instead of playing the game that you do.
>>47232215
>>47232231
That's not good enough for him, since attacking in The Father's Form provokes Death Rage.
>>47232215
Sadly, that doesn't really help the fact that Father's Form is a terrible Gift.
>>47232231
As of now, I'm mostly arguing what I just said above. I've also absorbed the viewpoints of those who feel differently regarding the game's themes than I do, which I always find interesting.
>>47232263
it's a three-page section that talks about using things beyond father's form the gift. I am begging you, please read the games you want to talk about.
>The group that wants all Uratha to have free access to Gauru may be unhappy having to spend the single Wolf Gift they receive at character creation on what they see as an intrinsic ability. Also, what if they have a character concept that doesn’t call for taking a dot of Purity Renown? Should that character be barred from taking the Facet? By the letter of the
rules, yes — but if that’s the style of game
the group wants, give the characters
the Facet for free.
>Alternatively, the Storyteller may choose to go further, allowing every werewolf to take Gauru
without the need to attack or risk of Kuruth.
>Changing the game like this is fine. These rules are a toolbox on how to roleplay werewolves in ways that evoke the themes of the World of Darkness. Other groups may disagree, and that’s also fine. Their game is fun for them, yours is fun for you. This change seems small, but it ripples throughout the game and it’s worth exploring how it affects the world. Werewolf existence has several core assumptions; one is that when Uratha take the hybrid form, shit just got real and someone’s about to die. Gauru is an explosion of Rage that burns out fast. Like every other form it has a place in the Siskur-Dah, and that place is to kill the prey when it needs to die.
>>47232263
>Sadly, that doesn't really help the fact that Father's Form is a terrible Gift.
Why do you say that?
Have you ever run an "unmasked world" scenario?
>>47232313
>I am begging you, please read the games you want to talk about.
This is true for every single argument in these threads, and yet
>>47232447
>And the Gift does not do what I want it to do. Triggering Death Rage by making an attack in fact makes it practically worthless, in addition to the arbitrary bullshit of reducing regeneration rates and the Lunacy thing.
>>47232313
> I am begging you, please read the games you want to talk about.
Working on this now.
>>47232447
Because he wants zero drawbacks for being Gauru all the time. He wants full regeneration and no risk of Death Rage.
>>47232263
It's not about different opinions on the game's themes. You're literally going against the themes. The Father's Form is meant to be a compromise, but that's not enough for you because you want to get rid of several of the game's themes. Yes, going against theme is fine if that's what your group wants, and as >>47232313 points out, the book suggests that. But "the whole game should be the way I want it to be" is ridiculous.
>>47232467
No, but I want to run a game set in an alternate fantasy WoD where the world is revealed. I want to do a cheesy Castlevania/Innistrad/Bloodborne style WoD game, or a game where the players are people from Earth who get caught up in an alternate reality where all the bits and pieces of realms that have been lost and broken due to all the reality breaks and Sunderings in the WoD are patchworked together. You can go to the material world to the Underworld to the Shadow to the Hedge just by walking around. Everything all Verged and Irised. Supernatural creatures being open about what they are. That kind of thing.
>>47232492
>Working on this now.
It's where you should have started.
>>47232492
>>And the Gift does not do what I want it to do. Triggering Death Rage by making an attack in fact makes it practically worthless, in addition to the arbitrary bullshit of reducing regeneration rates and the Lunacy thing.
It doesn't. It just turns it into regular war form. With the time cap and all.
>>47232246
When Stew's a bit less busy I'll ask him about plans re writing up existing Lodges.
>>47232977
I just really want to see the Tindalosi make it into something ASAP.
>DaveB getting salty.
>>47233039
Where?
>>47233094
Prior thread, and the comment was sarcasm.
>>47233039
What do you expect when you throw a komodo dragon into the sea?
>>47233094
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/member/14-dave-brookshaw
Like his last ten posts
I think he improved on Mage all around, but it must be annoying as fuck to have Magefans go all bitchy about everything
>>47231433
>>47231556
Ok, thanks.
Anyway, we decided to use Fate.
Now I just need to decide if use aspects or stunts for sup powers.
>>47233134
>Magefans go all bitchy about everything
It's mostly just a few individuals who are annoyed something was fixed from 1e or their powergamer builds are no longer possible under the rules.
Dave has amply expressed his understanding that few loud and repetitive posters are hardly representative of the entire fanbase.
However, even he admits that some things may change in the errata phase and the game will definitely needs a FAQ.
>>47233159
Why do you feel Fate is a better choice? I mean, I could see it for Exalted, but why WoD? The new system takes a lot from Fate, but the tone and themes of the systems are way different.
>>47233159
>Anyway, we decided to use Fate.
Is this some kind of troll post? I'm not bashing your choice of system—I love FATE—but I don't understand why you're still bothering to post in the World of Darkness General...
>>47233038
They'll turn up again if I have my way ;)
>>47233340
What's the next book after The Pack?
If 2e information on the Pure isn't in the corebook, where is it? An unreleased book?
>>47233381
It's in the corebook.
>>47233394
I checked, it doesn't have pages on the Pure Tribes.
>>47233415
Yes it does. Beginning of the antagonist section
>>47233357
I don't actually know for sure what's up on the schedule next.
>>47233428
No it doesn't. It only has blurbs. What I was looking for is full pages like the Forsaken tribes have.
>>47233242
For obvious reasons.
We know fate.
CoD is at least 150 (serious) pages of rules.
We don't know where the campaign will lead.
So the narrator risks to start learn 3+ manuals.
A generic system has its problems, but with the right dose of conversion books problems disappear (more or less).
>>47233292
It's CoD general. A CoD campaign with Fate or even FATAL system is still a CoD campaign.
Or not?
>>47233429
Are you currently writing for any CofD books that have not yet been officially announced?
>>47233451
There isn't a book just for the Pure yet
if you want to make them,
http://theonyxpath.com/playing-the-pure-werewolf-the-forsaken/
>>47233468
Nope!
>>47233357
they'll probably wait to see how the pack sells before making any decisions
I get the feeling the pack was short because they didn't expect forsaken to sell well :(
>>47233455
I don't know if that's "obvious". I tend to use CofD for everything, but I really don't like using one system for everything. Especially not when the game is designed for that system (or the system is designed for that game). I mean, I could see running Degenesis in CofD, but Fate and CofD don't really have the same mechanical tone.
The ST will also really only going to need to learn one manual. It's not that difficult, and we're even willing to help you out if you don't understand something.
>It's CoD general. A CoD campaign with Fate or even FATAL system is still a CoD campaign.
Honestly, it's fine to do that, but I still question the choice. I can think of systems that would make sense for running a WoD game that aren't WoD, but Fate is not at the top of that list. WoD wants to be "gritty but survivable", while Fate is four colour pulp action adventure. They're very different. And when you're just using the base mortals game... you're not playing WoD at that point, you're playing a game of Fate flavoured as occult mystery.
I mean, if you're just looking for an occult mysteries game, try Gumshoe.
Although, yes, with just about any game, you're looking at a couple hundred pages of rules and fluff. That's how most books are.
>>47233509
Well, it IS Forsaken.
>>47233552
i think the online publishing thing sucks
i get it, it's way hard to store, deliver, guarantee editing and books on time to bookstores
but pdfs on drivethrurpg are cheap, and who gets a physical copy when they have a pdf?
plus piracy (some things do sell better if exposed by piracy, but rpgs don't seem to be on that list)
>>47233470
That's a valiant effort, but insufficient. I would need to kitbash elements from 1e into this, because the writeup there doesn't include things like the proprietary Pure gifts. Additionally, the Renown system needs work; I personally would have all Pure have one dot of Purity Renown, with Fire-Touched choosing between Wisdom and Honor, Ivory Claws choosing between Honor and Cunning, and Predator Kings choosing between Glory and Wisdom.
>>47233588
There are no proprietary gifts.
>I personally would have
Then do it, no one gives a shit
>>47233608
Not proprietary in the sense that other Uratha couldn't use them, but in the sense that they're Gifts used primarily by the Pure Tribes.
>>47233544
>I still question the choice
Never said the choice was perfect.
Fate tone is easily settable to the CoD game tone needs. Just modifying stress tracks is a total change of atmosphere.
The narrator problem with a group that jumps around manuals is remembering and crossing lot of rules. "Learning one manual" is an oversemplification.
Anyway I appreciate the post.
Gumshoe is too investigation focused, but does that part well.
Any other suggestions to substite fate?
Buggery, the touchstones in Werewolf feel like more trouble than they're worth.
>>47233579
The RPG market has always been about people with disposable income. People buy physical copies all the time.
>>47233681
It's not an oversimplification. You will only need one book. The Chronicles of Darkness corebook.
>>47233900
>Maintaining ties to my conflicting nature sounds like more trouble than it's worth
And this is how you go off the reservation.
>>47233918
Maintaining nagging, obnoxious ties to my conflicting nature sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
>>47233918
>The RPG market has always been about people with disposable income. People buy physical copies all the time.
i hope so
anyone know how much writers are paid for this stuff?
>>47233900
>touchstones
>trouble
They've literally never come up in my game
>>47233933
>nagging, obnoxious ties
They're only nagging and obnoxious if you as a player choose to have them be nagging and obnoxious
You don't have to engage both Touchstones every session; hell, you don't even have to engage them every other session. Engage them as much or as little as you like, but they're still characters, and if you stop hanging out with them, they're gonna stop giving a shit about you, like any real person would.
>>47233933
I meant that it's supposed to be :V
>>47233961
Characters who's touchstones are just a vague handwaved story aspect isn't great. They're meant to be something to make it feel like your character actually has some kind of social relationship beyond the characters in the party.
>>47233941
Not much. But that's been true even in the 90s.
>>47233992
I feel like what he means by "nagging" is that even if you don't do it once a session or every other session, it's still "work" to keep up a social life and care for things beyond the immediate scope of the current story. It is. But that's not a bad thing, that's intentional.
>>47233961
Touchstones or problems with them.
>>47233992
Fair enough. So the best way to facilitate this, I believe, is to have no physical Touchstone who doesn't know and support what you are, and to have no spiritual Touchstone that thinks for itself.
>>47233900
i've had a lot of fun with the touchstones in my current werewolf game. They're great story hooks.
>>47234015
>Characters who's touchstones are just a vague handwaved story aspect isn't great. They're meant to be something to make it feel like your character actually has some kind of social relationship beyond the characters in the party.
My character's a dick, but I was wrong anyways, I forgot what my spirit touchstone was and it's been with us almost constantly
I've never used my flesh touchstone, though
>>47234016
As above
It's not something you have to go away from the game to deal with, you just make it part of your background
did your character have a sister they were close to or a job they liked? theres your flesh touchstone
>>47233900
Kill all your touchstones, dye your memories with blood
>>47234067
It stops being a Touchstone if you're no longer connected to it, though.
If you lost your job, you're not gonna give a shit when the building burns down.
Your Touchstones are meant to be characterizing elements, things that you care about in the world, and that connect you to one end or the other of the Harmony spectrum.
EG if your character has a sister, and they still hang out sometimes, that's enough for her to qualify as a Touchstone. Those moments, away from the Pack, where you're spending time with your sister, are an intended part of the game, meant to ground you and remind everyone that hey, you're still human.
Same goes for a Spirit touchstone; if you go with a Lune, for example, those scenes you spend talking with the Lune about what's been going on with your Pack, and explaining what it all means to you, are still intentional and humanizing elements.
You're not just a fur-covered war machine, you're a person with friends and emotions.
>>47234180
>It stops being a Touchstone if you're no longer connected to it, though.
Yeah but that can take a while, you don't have to get in contact with your touchstones every session
Right now we've lost the spirit one (personal totem is gone) which has been with us since the beginning abnd until recently
>>47234067
It's not just "they had a sister they were close with". It's "spending time with their sister reminds them of being human".
>>47233941
When I freelanced for WW I got .03 per word. That's the base rate, I believe, with more seasoned writers going up from there.
>>47234222
>It's not just "they had a sister they were close with". It's "spending time with their sister reminds them of being human".
Semantics. My point was that you don't have to make it a huge deal, you don't have to write your background and make your character then decide touchstones for them as if they're something completely separate from your background and character, they can be parts of that
And you don't have to break whatevers happening every session to have your werewolf hang out with their human sister, you can just get away with
"I spend some of the weekend with my sister, we had a good time bonding over old memories of Lake Blood so Firefang is i a good mood when he meets back up with the pack at their den"
>>47234251
so how many words in the Pack?
anyone know the ratio of words:pages?
>>47234292
Don't know that, but usually you see assignments range from 5k on the lower end to 20-25k on the upper end.
>>47234222
>It's "spending time with their sister reminds them of being human".
Reminds me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxftoXu0OM
The werewolf's sister was one of my favorite additions to the American remake of this show
>>47234292
You could just do that, yeah, but that's kinda dull to just skim over the details.
If you're gonna give everyone in the Pack a weekend off, have a few scenes showcasing what happens for them during that weekend; maybe the Rahu runs into an old flame and they spend the weekend boxing at their old gym? Maybe the Irraka hangs out with an old friend from their cop days, and they spend the whole two days on a pub crawl?
Have a scene of the Rahu's first fight with the old flame; the few minutes leading up to it, a down & dirty combat roll for the fight itself(unless the old flame is anything but mortal), and then a short conversation after the fight ends.
Give the Irraka a scene in the middle of the pub crawl, where their buddy heads off to the bathroom, and they notice someone staring at them across the bar.
It shouldn't be something that takes away from the events of the story, but if you're going to give the characters downtime, don't just skim over it--everyone already knows what they're like with the Pack, show them what they're like when they're on their own.
>>47234388
>You could just do that, yeah, but that's kinda dull to just skim over the details.
It depends on what you want to focus.
The guy likes wtA, he doesn't give a shit about socializing or character development, he just wants to kill shit, so touchstones can just b e skkimmed over
>>47234314
I'm getting around 80k words from it. It's counting word breaks though so that's being generous
thats like 2400 dollars to make (developers get paid more? extra?)
and its electrum so it has already gotten past that
>>47234388
>The werewolf's sister was one of my favorite additions to the American remake of this show
The Werewolf's girlfriend was my favourite thing about the original.
>>47234542
Well, yeah, but... WoD has never been about just killing shit, even in the games like Hunter and Werewolf where you're literally focused on killing shit.
>>47234712
>Well, yeah, but... WoD has never been about just killing shit, even in the games like Hunter and Werewolf where you're literally focused on killing shit.
Normally, but for some reason this guy doesn't like anything that takes away from killing
You're complaining to the wrong guy and for wrong reasons. My character's detachment from his touchstones is (despite forgetting some mechanical aspects) a purposeful one because my character is lost since his transformation and needs to find new ones. His personal journey has always been to discover his true past, which is why he's with the pack (in their region) in the first place. We socialize more than we hunt, we've been playing every week since the day the game came out and we've done 6 siskurdahs. I don't need advice, our game has bee n going greatly
>>47231490
Werewolves are immune to the Ecstatic Winds, so there is no reason why if they found a way into the Anima Mundi they couldn't drink from the Wellspring. I wonder if you would get Magewolves or they would turn into baby Pangaeans?
>>47234706
Gotta think though that's split up between five or six different writers.
>>47234712
>The Werewolf's girlfriend was my favourite thing about the original.
Nina's cool. My favorite thing about the original show is Annie, though.
Well, until season 4/5; Hal, Tom, and Alex are just more enjoyable to me.I'm making a Brujah based on blood-drinking Hal for an upcoming V20 game.
>>47234978
I only saw like the first three episodes, and that was maybe six years ago. I just remember vague stuff, and the girlfriend is also the catcus from the Doctor Who episode with The Master taking over everyone. I think she's cute.
Favorite /wod/ related movies? Just watched When Animals Dream. Feels similar to Let the Right One In but with werewolves
>>47235264
This is the best vampire film where the vampire never drinks blood.
>>47229690
>using the same image in less than a week
Jagten as a Promethean movie. Sort of. Think about it.
The Pack is excellent.
I particularly like the parts about Mage / Werewolf interaction and as potential packmates.
So, I'm honestly baffled. Why on earth do people complain and bitch about mechanics when they haven't read the goddamn books? It blows my fucking mind. It's almost as bad as people bitching about mechanics before testing them.
>>47236188
>Werewolves
>Working with Mages
Someone needs to call Aegis Kai Doru right fucking now.
>>47236188
>Mages want to fuck spirits
I love that "Werewolves aren't police". Would have been better if they straight up said "aren't spirit cops".
>>47236369
>Two birds with one silvered and salted IED.
>>47236369
>>47236402
>>47236188
Here's the full section about mages from The Pack.
>>47236369
>Aegis Kai Doru
You guys are just gonna LOVE the Hounds Of God, you know that, right?
>>47236576
I don't know what they are, but I suspect they'll need more silver bullets.
>>47236576
>People hyping my homebrew
I'm such a proud mamma.
>>47236653
Wolfblooded Proximus Dynasty I made after someone kept asking how well that would go.
All right, so I was thinking about an idea I had for Requiem one time: gnostic liberation. Based on the ideas of the Followers of Set, it used the Inhumanity rule from Danse Macabre, that allowed vampires to alter their hierarchy of sins in a manner similar to a hunter's Code. The idea is that if you replace every single breaking point you have and reach Humanity 10, you become completely immune to mental influence: social maneuvering, mind control, frenzy, none of it can affect you any more. Your will is inviolate.
Reading through the new Werewolf book made me wonder what a lodge devoted to such an ideal would be like. Tentatively called the Lodge of Unbound Will, it would center around a spirit called the Broken Chains and might be able to acquire blessings that make them immune to Death Rage and possibly to give them greater conscious control over their own Harmony. Most of the details are still blurry, though.
>>47236188
>>47236547
>Mage / Werewolf interaction
"interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death."
>Mage Supremacy
>>47236825
But Thyrsus work really well with The People.
>>47236851
>But Thyrsus work really well with The People.
By being objectively better at 50% of their job.
The Mastigos are better at the other half
>>47236864
>The Mastigos are better at the other half
wait what?
>>47236975
just ignore the troll. Given enough time they'll just flip back to crying about how mages are UP now.They can't make up their minds.
Typical magefag.
>>47237036
>Typical magefag.
Why do people seem to not realize the people whining about "mage supremacy" are not generally mage fans?
Also, speaking of mage, Dave, what was the reason for Mages resisting Auras with Resistance Attributes instead of challenging it with their own Power Attribute?
>>47237083
It is all magefagging, either way.
>>47237273
It's a PsyOp to make you hate Mage!
>>47237302
TFV strike again!
>In the midst of the carnage of fall television renewal/cancellation announcements, we’ve learned one piece of great news: Archie is coming to TV! Riverdale, a one-hour live-action drama, will premiere this fall on the CW. While the show will focus on the immortal ourobouros that is the love triangle between Archie, Betty, and Veronica (with plenty of commentary from Jughead, we’re assuming), the series also promises subversion, with the press release saying that the show will explore “the darkness and weirdness bubbling beneath Riverdale’s wholesome facade.”
>WoD Archie
>>47237317
Actually, for once I feel like Division Six would be applicable...
>>47237083
>Why do people seem to not realize the people whining about "mage supremacy" are not generally mage fans?
But I want to be. I want nothing more than to be shown that Mage isn't a hideously broken clusterfuck with no theme beyond "here's your magic and the Scooby Doo van, best of luck chump"
>>47237381
Well maybe you should read the book and you'll be divested of that notion.
It's like saying Werewolf has no theme beyond "here's your shapeshifting and the anger issues, best of luck chump"
>>47237432
Werewolves have a point - they have a place in the setting and a recognised purpose amongst spirits.
Mages are "play it YOUR way" sandbox bullshit
>>47237451
Fight to stop the Seers of the Throne and the Abyss if you need purpose.
>>47237451
Everything is "play it YOUR way" sandbox bullshit. That's why people like the setting.
>>47237489
The need to keep looking for Mysteries is also pretty similar to the Werewolf's need to Hunt.
>>47237451
>sandbox bullshit
Mage has so many interesting possibilities for how to structure your game. I'm honestly not sure how they would reduce all of it to a single purpose.
"It's a game about opposing the Seers and fighting the Lie!" would be a fine idea for a chronicle, for example—but it leaves out so many other ides that would make equally compelling foci, so it couldn't possibly serve as a universal statement of purpose for the game.
Isn't the whole point of nWoD kind of that there isn't one specific way you're supposed to play the game?
>>47237579
>Mage has so many interesting possibilities for how to structure your game. I'm honestly not sure how they would reduce all of it to a single purpose.
>"It's a game about opposing the Seers and fighting the Lie!" would be a fine idea for a chronicle, for example—but it leaves out so many other ides that would make equally compelling foci, so it couldn't possibly serve as a universal statement of purpose for the game.
"It's so great you can't possibly give it a central theme like all the other games"
And there's the problem, Mage Supremacy even on a meta level
>>47237451
It's still more coherent than Geist.
>>47237652
Although their proposed tagline of "addicted to mysteries" sounds a little silly to my ears, it is pretty accurate. Everything Mages do is about following that insatiable thirst for knowledge. That's the big-picture "purpose," and all you have to do is personalize it: for a Mystagogue it might mean traveling to exotic locales in search of ancient secrets, for a Libertine it might mean destroying the followers of the Lie, for a left-handed Mage is might mean peeling some terrible secret from within the souls of men—but its all the same idea in the end.
>>47237652
>"It's so great you can't possibly give it a central theme like all the other games"
Pretty much no game really has a "central focus"--and you aren't talking about a theme, because Mage has strong themes about the price of knowledge and the will to power, you're talking about a central focus--except maybe Vampire. And even that's not really true.
>>47237675
Technically, Geist had focus. It just had no incentive. Mage actively bribes you to go explore, and makes it impossible to 'turn it off'. Werewolf punishes you for not Hunting.
Geist told you that you always saw death but made it easy to turn off, and didn't punish or reward you in ways that encouraged any sort of specific play.
>>47236825
If Mage Supremacy was real then the Lodge of the Cage wouldn't be a thing.
So Enlightened, I have two questions regarding Mage 2e.
1. Potency. A spell starts at potency 1, and extra levels can be bought at a price of -2 dice per potency level. My question is this: say I bump a spell to potency 5. If I get 1 success on the spell, does the spell go off at potency 5 or potency 1(since I only got 1 success)?
2. Adamant Hand. How does this merit work? Does it allow me to hit someone and cast a spell in the same turn? It sure reads like that and the book implies this on page 118. Granted said stipulation occurs for spells that take multiple turns to cast. So how does it work?
Thanks, gents.
>>47238126
1. Your spell roll is binary, if you get a success it goes off as planned, spell factors and all.
Also if the primary factor is Potency, then once your spell goes off, you get main arcarnum dots-1 free bonus potency on top of what you bought with dice penalties.
>>47229760
A verge is a place where ANY reality overlaps with any other reality. Spirit/Material verges were the most common kind in 1e.
Wounds are Spirit/Inferno Verges.
>>47238165
Awww, sweet. I was confusing things with mage 1e where success = potency. In a way, this is better? We'll see later tonight!
>>47238126
2. >This Merit allows use of that Skill in combat as a reflexive Order tool Yantra, adding dice to a spell cast on subsequent turns, or to a spell cast reflexively in the same turn as the combat action
It reads that way, the only mention of reflexive casting is aimed spells though. So I guess you punch someone then hit them with your fire breath?
>>47238208
Since when? 2E or some splat?
>>47229841
Can't you do stuff like Hunt for information?
I know Mages pursuing Mysteries are considered to be On The Hunt when they're in the Border Marches in the Neolithic setting.
>>47238229
2e made Verge the generic for gaps between worlds. 2e Werewolf literally only mentions them in the Gauntlet strength table, not the text itself as a Hisil specific thing
>>47238245
Interesting, I never would have noticed it wasn't in there.
Is there a link for Werewolf 2e core? I can't find it in the mega or the pastebin link above.
>>47238126
Potency is equal to the Arcana, isn't it?
Adamant Hand works that way, yes. You punch and if the punch connects, you cast.
>>47238415
It's only equal to the Arcanum if it's the primary factor.
>>47238023
A Lodge with Mad attack dogs sounds awesome, but I have to wonder how they keep them locked up and under control.
What are the Hounds of the Dog of the Field?
>>47238939
You mean the Hounds of the Field of Dogs?
It's the Lodge-thing the Lycaon-Ur leads in Wroclaw, Poland.
>>47238208
>>47238229
>>47238245
Wasn't the first time verges were mentioned the 1e Werewolf corebook?
>>47238960
Should have been. But my memory is terrible.
>>47238880
Probably beat the crap out of them, threaten their lives, and keep themselves well warded against whatever spells they expect.
But more likely, you release them in a way that you aren't anywhere nearby, and you just come and cage them again after their deed is done.
>>47238939
From the Polish setting in Werewolf 2e.
>>47238227
>>47238415
>This Merit allows use of that Skill in combat as a reflexive Order tool Yantra, adding dice to a spell cast on subsequent turns, or to a spell cast reflexively in the same turn as the combat action
Isn't casting a spell still at least an Instant action when you Reach for instant casting, though? What it seems to say right now (the phrase "reflexive Order tool Yantra" is a little misleading) is that you make an attack, and then on the following turn you cast a spell, using your combat skill bonus from the previous turn as your one reflexive Yantra—unless you have a spell that specifically says it can be cast reflexively, in which you can do this all in a single turn. You can't otherwise take a combat action and a casting action in the same turn, though.
>>47231651
Not actually a curse from Father Moon since Silver was a bane to werewolves before Mother Wolf was even killed.
>>47237372
Division Six is NEVER applicable.
>>47237451
That's THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF COFD.
>>47238126
>>47238415
>>47238227
What it does is this. You punch someone, then on your next spell, you get a yantra bonus. Easy.
If I understand 2e wisdom correctly then hitting low wisdom is easy as hell but once you get there it's going to be a long time before you roll another wisdom check. Unless you're a complete monster of course.
>>47239395
That's Morality in a nutshell.
>>47237083
>Why do people seem to not realize the people whining about "mage supremacy" are not generally mage fans?
They are, though
you can say they aren't but they post almost exlusively on the mage forums, they know the most about the game and have been fans since 1e
>>47239819
If they knew anything about the game they wouldn't be whining about Mage Supremacy.
>>47239928
Why? Mage background insists upon supremacy. It's why in dave's primordial dream story the mage was trying to school the beast in what it really is, because mages know the truth about the fallen world and the supernal beyond it
they don't force this view on other game races, but it doesn't need to be anywhere but mage
then you have the power, which allows for anything given enough dots
>>47240016
>Why? Mage background insists upon supremacy.
No, it insists on learning everything you can about shit. Sure, Mages have an easier time with it, but that's like saying Vampire Supremacy is a thing because they have the best social powers, or Werewolf Supremacy is a thing because they have the best combat powers; yeah, they do outshine the other splats in that area, their area of expertise, the area that they're made to be the best at
Who'd have thought smart wizard people would be good at learning about things?
>then you have the power, which allows for anything given enough dots
>what are penalties
>what is paradox
>what is any other number of things that could come up and prevent you from doing what you're doing in whatever gamey-ass way you're trying to do it?
Werewolves can theoretically do anything, too, if they talk to the right Spirit.
So can Demons. And Changelings. And Prometheans.
>>47240149
>Mage supremacy totally doesn't exist guys
lmao
>>47240016
>Mage background insists upon supremacy
That's the talk of a Mage with low Wisdom.
High Wisdom is all about realizing that you don't know everything, that your powers are flawed, and that indulging in what you are is self-destructive.
Mages do have a high power level. But the stakes are just as high. A Mage who abuses his powers doesn't get to keep abusing them for very long. Hubris is one of the central themes of the entire game.
