Who would win in a confrontation between a Bloodthirster and the Swarmlord
Draigo
>>47176670
Tzeentch
>>47176708
/thread
Chaos is invincible and unbeatable, so it would win. Even if the demon lost it would still be a victory because it's all part of some greater plan.
Blood Thirster is more powerful in the fluff. I don't know how they would compare in the fluff though since the Swarmlord has that shadow of the warp thing going for him which probably fucks with Daemons.
Doing mathhammer shows:
Bloodthirster deals 1.33 wounds at I9
Swarmlord deals 1.5 wounds at I6 which cause Instant Death
The Swarmlord wins UNLESS the Blood Thirster manages to score an Instant Death wound by using Decapitating Strike on a roll of 6.
>>47176861
Naw, Swarmlord is more powerful in fluff.
At least depending on the Bloodthirster.
>>47176670
Sigismund.
>>47176903
Swarmlords can always be brought down by bullets. Daemons can be impervious to material weapons :^)
>>47176670
How about this match up?
>>47176920
>Daemons can be impervious to material weapons :^)
well they can be, like all the time. it's even especially hard.
besides thatvthe swarmlord is armed with more than just mundane material weapons.Tyranid boneswords are essentially organic force weapons.
>>47176920
Swarmlord has crushed civilizations and brought entire galaxies to ruin.
Most Bloodthirsters are just big daemonic goons. Not to mention the fact that the Swarmlord is a psyker.
I'm not some kind of Tyranidaboo. This is just apples to oranges.
>>47176959
its not even especially hard i mean.
>>47176932
How much time does the Deathwatch have to prepare and get into operator mode?
>>47176979
Swarmlord is a fuccboy
>>47176984
A week.
>>47176861
Surprise the BT doesn't resist ID.
Then again, my Swarmlord WTFPwned the Nightbringer on the table, so he's not a chump.
>>47176670
My Dick
>>47176932
If Deathwatch gets pre-errata heavy bolters, then Deathwatch wins.
>>47176776
Didnt four greater daemons get face rolled by nids on some planet? I remember the Tzeentch one got sick of their shit and went back to the warp.
HIVEMIND ON SUICIDE WATCH
Greater daemons vary vastly in power, but swarmlord should beat a lower tier BT without too much trouble. Remember, the Swarmlord is just pragmatic, he won't deul the bloodthirster unless that's the best way to victory. He'd more likely send 12 carnifexes to kick it to death
>>47177199
Deathwatch gets shit done.
>>47177270
How many carnifexes does it take to guarantee a bloodthirster kill?
What would happen if the Imperium was, by some miracle, able to funnel a major Hive Fleet into the Eye of Terror?
>>47177302
The tryinids take over the galaxy even faster then before.
>>47177292
The world may never know!
Greatly depends on the circumstances.
If it's on a battlefield? Then there's shadow of the warp which fucks with daemons and then he can't draw power from the warp. If it's a 1v1? Daemons by far. Just because daemons have been around longer and embody the material principles that make them up. So, a BT basically embodies war incarnate. A swarmlord isn't gonna be able to take that on solo unless it's a weaker one or the Swarmlord has a ton of Tyranids with him drowning out the daemon's connection to the warp.
And I'm pretty sure they fought before and now Tyranids avoid daemon worlds like the plague. It's basically a meatgrinder on places like that because daemons literally control the planet and no amount of Tyranid hivemind is gonna blot out such a raw connection to the warp or be able to survive in a world where it can change on a whim to aid the daemons.
So, circumstances play a big role in who wins.
>>47177302
Chaos tyranids
or the swarm absorbs the DNA of chaos
>>47177302
Captain Jimius Raynor you must take this sacred psyfield generator deep into the eye of terror
>>47177292
6 wrecked an avatar of khaine with no casualties, so at least 3 or 4?
>>47177302
They would turn around and leave since warp shit doesnt have biomass.
>>47177370
>Tyranids running away from Chaos
Ha! Orks ARE better! I knew it!
>>47177370
You sure you arent mixing up the swarmlord with a hive tyrant? There is only one swarmlord. Also nids avoid daemons because they have no biomass so fighting them achieves nothing.
>>47176670
the bloodthirster.
>>47177375
That seems super worth it for the tyranids.
I might be remembering wrong but isnt the swarmlord one of the most powerful characters in the tabletop game? Or at least was at one point.
>>47177370
>daemons have been around longer
Extremely debatable.
> embody the material principles that make them up
No, they embody emotions.
>>47177292
on the table top assuming average rolls and tailored wargear 2 if they charge, 3 if the BT charges. Or 1 Stonecrusher with its ID wrecking ball.
>>47177371
chaos tyrnaids wouldn't happen. You can get physically corrupted tyranids like the warp can do to a dog or a rock. But you wouldn't get chaos aligned ones, any nid smart enough to be capable of worship also has a permanent link too the hivemind.
>>47176670
This already happened. The Swarmlord BTFO'd the daemon.
>>47179608
When did this happen? I havent seen any fluff if the Swarmlord fighting anyone other than calgar
>>47176670
The emperor
>>47176903
>Naw, Swarmlord is more powerful in fluff.
Doubtful, a single Bloodthirster was the match of three Trygons at once.
>>47176932
The Ultramarine wins of course.
>>47180773
He also fought Farsight and lost.
Swarmlord ain't shit tbqh.
>>47180773
> I havent seen any fluff if the Swarmlord fighting anyone other than calgar
The super-powered Hive Tyrant that Yriel killed on Iyanden was retconned to be the Swarmlord, IIRC, as of the novel Valedor.
He also gets shot to death by Wraithguard at the end of the same book.
>>47176670
Doesn't matter because whoever loses gets resurrected anyway
If the swarmlord is part of a tyranid swarm and so is intelligent and has the shadow of the warp to dampen the demon's powers - the swarmlord
If the swarmlord is seperated from the hivemind and is a more mindless beast - probably the bloodthirster
>>47181885
the swarmlord has a mind of his own. He doesn't recede to bestial instincts like other tyranids
>>47181904
Regardless, it'll be weaker without the connection to the hivemind
>>47181885
swarmlord is a synapse creature. its never separate from the hivemind.
>>47177219
Source please, that sounds like an amazing read
>>47176932
Heres a match up
A kill team of Deathwatch marines and an Officio Assassinorum team comprised of a Callidus, Culexus, Vindicare, and Eversor assassin, both after the same target, and whichever team kills the target first gets a handshake from the Emperor. They both get three days of prep, and are allowed to kill each other if need be.
Which team wins?
>>47182060
It's in the current Tyranid codex. Long story short; Tyranids invade an Imperial world, quickly overcome the defenders, which include a small garrison of Grey Knights guarding a dormant warp gate. With the Knights dead and the portal fuelled by the negative emotions unleashed by the dying populace, a full-scale Daemonic invasion erupts.
The Tyranids get their asses kicked initially, primarily because the Daemons find themselves up against feeding swarms rather than actual armies, and most of the new Mycetic spores dropped on the planet are destroyed by reality fluxes before hitting the ground. Things change once the Tyranids give up some of the ground they've taken and erect a huge, continent-wide cordon of Biovores, Exorines, and other living artillery units, which keep the Daemons contained. Since Tyranids don't really feel emotion, the warp rift begins to close, robbing the Daemons of their power. The four Greater Daemons make one last charge against the blockade, resulting in the Great Unclean One being blown up by Zoanthropes, the Lord of Change fleeing back through the portal, and the Keeper and Bloodthirster dispatched by methods I can't remember.
Why does nurgle not just nuke the nids with his rot? Everything succumbs to it according to some canon sources, so surely the nids couldn't resist the literally magic disease?
>>47183115
Because chaos are up their own asses and cant do half the shit they say they can.
>>47182060
It's some bullshit story where nids quickly develop immunities to Nurgle's diseases and pretty much everything else too.
>>47183115
The old Eye of Terror campaign featured one situation where the Death Guard, Tyranids, and Imperial Guard were all fighting for control over one world near the Eye. The Tyranids were apparently unaffected by the plagues which were unleashed on the world.
Most of Nurgles's plagues, while extremely virulent and inevitably fatal, aren't magical. They can be resisted and overcome through natural biological means. The ones which DO actually affect the soul of the victim - like Nurgle's Rot - are particularly feared because they're so unusual and generally can't be cured outside of similarly unnatural phenomona.
So while the first Tyranids to be infected by one of Nurgle's plagues will die off, subsequent generations will be immune as the Hive Mind adapts its organisms accordingly. The issue of whether or not Tyranids have souls is somewhat murky, so it's possible they might be resistant to the overtly supernatural ones as well.
>>47183172
Chaos fanboy mad daemons got BTFO by an NPC race.
>>47183213
Every race defeats another at one point.
I ain't mad.
Besides there are more instances of Daemons curbstomping nids.
>>47183240
Such as...?
>>47183294
Daemonkin is pretty good.
>>47177199
Christ, I remember reading about that shit more than five years ago. Bolter weapons were so OP.
>>47177375
I think Iyanden supplement retconned that to where the Avatar took a few down with it before being overwhelmed. Plus it was taken by surprise.
>>47183294
Multiple times in the Daemonkin codex.
And in the Covens supp as well. A daemon host tears apart a tendril of Leviathan from the inside out.
Aren't there tiers to Bloodthirsters? The high tier ones being God like by human standards while the lower tier ones being closer to you average video game boss? A Swarmlord could beat the lower and low-mid tier ones but probably not a high tier one unless some extreme circumstances are already in place.
>>47176670
>Who would win in a confrontation between a Bloodjobber and the Joblord
wew
>>47177302
Surely nothing could go wrong.
>>47177375
12 Carnifexes, assuming you're talking about Iyanden. The Avatar killed the first 3 but was knocked down by the 4th and gangbanged by the rest.
>>47183115
Codex: Tyranids, The Fall of Shadowbrink:
>With one of their number fallen, the remaining lords of the Abominatum realised the nature of the battle had changed. The Hive Mind was leeching their energies, severing the Daemons from the sustaining powers of the Empyrean. No real blood flowed for Khorne, just worthless alien ichor. As each rancid disease was unleashed by the children of Nurgle, so the next brood of Tyranids had grown resistant to it. Without the fear or devotion of true mortals to sustain them, the Daemons were foundering fast.
Eye of Terror campaign results, Belis Corona sector:
>Faced with both the pustulant forces of the Death Guard, and the voracious hordes of Tyranids who were, unlike the human defenders, immune to the Plague God’s blessings, the forces of the Imperium were hard pressed to defend the vital worlds of the sector.
>>47183471
>Aren't there tiers to Bloodthirsters?
Yes, but all are essentially gods of war.
>>47183490
There's only one true God of War in the setting though.
>>47183472
>12 Carnifexes, assuming you're talking about Iyanden. The Avatar killed the first 3 but was knocked down by the 4th and gangbanged by the rest.
An Avatar can be awakened once per year. The fexes will respawned within the hour. It does not matter how much he killed, it is still laughable.
>>47183471
(picture related).
First and Second Host thirsters would mop the floor with the Swarmlord.
>>47183513
True, Calgar bested An'ggrath himself.
>>47183564
IIRC, The Grey Knights enacted a banishing ritual that was dissolving the daemons back to the Warp. Before he could be banished, An'ggrath hasty tried to bite Calgar's head off. This gave Calgar the chance to deliver a killing blow.
Had the Grey Knights not meddled, I don't think Calgar would have won.
>>47176670
Nagash.
>>47183596
Nah, An''grath flew into a rage when he saw his forces were incapable of beating the Ultramarines, so he tried to salvage some pride by taking Calgar's head, but Calgar got his instead.
>>47177375
kinda unrelated, but can an Avatar be resurrected, or once t's dead, it's dead?
>>47183720
It spirit returns and regrows in the avatar room.
>>47182102
The Callidus is in the kill team.
>>47176670
both are jobbers due to respawnability, but swarmlord has more plot armor for being named
skarbrand vs the swarmlord would be a closer fight
If chaos gets stomped by nids, how do necrons fare? I imagine the necrons don't like them much?
What would happen to a daemon prince if caught in the shadow on the warp then? They're technically still physical beings, not pure warpstuff like daemons, would there be a risk of them becoming stranded and cut off from the warp?
>>47176776
>What is the Hive Mind
>What is Unending Swarm
>>47183857
Skarbrand would stomp all over the swarmlord in fluff and on table top.
>>47183859
>chaos gets stomped by nids
Not really.
>how do necrons fare?
Good against Nids.
>>47183882
>They're technically still physical beings, not pure warpstuff like daemons
Daemon Princes are pure warp, that's the point.
>>47183857
>skarbrand vs the swarmlord would be a closer fight
fuck no! Skarbrand is OP as all hell!
>>47182176
Throne, that sounds metal as fuck
>>47181885
Even the basic Hive Tyrant has a degree of individuality and is many times more intelligent than a human. The Swarmlord is even greater than they are.
>>47184270
>The Swarmlord is even greater than they are.
Must feel bad to get rekt by Calgar, Farsight and Yriel then.
>>47184289
They all only have one chance to die, the Swarmlord has jobbed thousands of times, and will continue to until there are no more Tyranids or everything else is dead.
>>47183859
Necrons have virtually every advantage one could need to wipe the Tyranids all over the place. From counters to the Hivemind with their anti-Warp fields to their complete lack of Immaterial usage to readily available WMDs more advanced than anyone else's, alongside being replicable. Tyranids tend to just leave Necrons alone because, win or lose, they won't get anything out of it but a decrease in usable biomass.
>>47184289
Farsight, sure, but Calgar and Yriel are both, respectively, nearly at the pinnacle of their individual races, both of which are pretty much objectively the most effective warrior-factions in the galaxy on an individual level.
>>47184416
>Yriel are both
Yriel is just a fleet commander. He is no exarch.
>>47184437
He's an Autarch, and has thus had a great deal of experience as a Dire Avenger, Howling Banshee, Striking Scorpion, Dark Reaper, Swooping Hawk, Fire Dragon and potentially some of the less obligatory Aspects.
>>47184465
Same anon here, ignore me, I just remembered some of the sources. Ech. Either way, he seems to have a good grasp of what he's going, as odd as it may be to achieve such a level by untraditional means.
Here's a better question.
Has an Avatar of Khaine ever won a fight?
>>47184507
Killed a Chaplain one time.
He was truly a shame to the Black Templars.
>>47183972
I rememeber him being a faceroller in 6th ed. Is he even more absurd in 7th ed?
>>47182102
Assassins can potentially kill Space Marines, so I guess it depends on what the target is.
>>47184507
Two avatars kicked a shit load of Tyranid butts in Valedor.
By the end of the story, one of the avatars was fighting atop a mountain of Tyranids.
>>47182102
>>47184636
Assassins are not only superior to Astartes on average in an outright fight, but they're also literally trained for this kind of thing. There's no competition, either the Deathwatch are saved by the plot or the Assassins win.
GET FUCKED BUGBOIS
>>47176670
Named hero bloodthirsters > Swarmlord > Generic Bloodthirsters
>>47177302
Tyranids would realise its a warp storm and has little to no biomass and turn around
IF they were somehow forced to go in, shadow in the warp would cause the deamons to weaken and flicker (in the immediate vicinity) but with no biomass and respawning daemons the tyranids would die from attrition relatively quick
>>47185134
And named generic Bloodthirsters?
>implying any foe could hope to stand before K’rakagarak, Kh’hak’arakh’khar, or Kornan the Barbarous
>>47182176
The Bloodthirster was being constricted by 3 trygons, and they were wrestling him to the ground, he then went back through the warp portal because "fuck this"
>>47183115
Tyranids adapt within a few hours to a day or so, they get affected but quickly get over it
>>47183857
As a tyranid player and swarmlord fan, even I have to say 9/10 skarbrand would win that
>>47185185
>Madd'dog Bonespliter
>>47185192
He just ran out of warp juice as the Hive Mind shut it down.
>>47185192
No, the Bloodthister was wrestling 3 trygons and having fun before he was banished against his will when the warp rift collapsed.
Bloodthirsters do not retreat. They do not run. They fight to the last. Kill or be killed, it's all in the service of Khorne.
>>47176670
A swarmlord. it's not unique anymore.
>>47183859
Dunno if it's been supplanted by newer LOLORE, but 5th edition maps had hive fleets going well out of their way to avoid known Necron tombworlds. It makes perfect sense -- why fuck with something that is a guaranteed net loss of biomass?
With Newcrons, there's at least a few Overlords who aren't going to be happy with an all-consuming swarm. Szarekh is actively opposing them, Trazyn would be less than pleased with anything that cuts the variety out of his collectables, and Imotekh is big on vassals.
>>47185531
I can just imagine the Newcrons being all annoyed and discussing the Tyranid infestation and coming up with some Monolith-styled giant bug zappers.
Because on the grand scale of things for the Necrons, bugs that just eat the biomass of a planet and then move on are pretty low on the priority tier list; more of an inconvenience than any real threat to them. Depending on the individual Necron lord they could actually be beneficial to their plans (Destroyers).
>>47185716
>Because on the grand scale of things for the Necrons, bugs that just eat the biomass of a planet and then move on are pretty low on the priority tier list;
Actually they're priority #1 for the Silent King.
He has ordered their eradication.
>>47185185
>Doomblade Gutshredder
>Madd'dog Bonesplinter
>Kornan the Barbarous
Are you sure these are Daemons and not Orks?
>>47185531
The tomb world that the Behemoth tendrils avoided in the 5th edition Tyranid codex was Solemnace, which the Newcron codex revealed to be Trazyn's pad. Inquisitor Valeria's subsequent investigation of, and expulsion from, the world then led to Operation Solemnace, which is part of the current core book timeline.
In the NewNewcron codex, Trazyn tried to collect Tyranids as well but it didn't work out:
>990.M41 THE MUSEUM OF DEATH
>Trazyn the Infinite creates one of his largest collections to date, sparking the Tyranid invasion of the world of Vuros and then using a temporal cascade to immortalise the event. Even so, Trazyn finds the Tyranids troublesome museum exhibits and is forced to abandon the project after several full-scale battles in the vaults of Solemnace.
>>47185716
There's a bit of Oldcron battle report fluff where a Monolithon Armageddonactually did act as a literal bug zapper.
>>47184507
Murdered the IG on the world of the Bloodied Sword, snapped a Keepers of Secrets with a fucking back breaker and single handedly kept an apocalypse level Nid invasion of two hive fleets at bay. Also, your pic isn't jobbing. Lorgar found the husk of an Avatar on a destroyed craftworld. He didn't actually fight it.
>>47183472
Why not Bloodjob or Swarmjob?
...god, that sounds like the kinkiest shit I am afraid to google
>>47185957
Eventually Trazyn will find out about the Battle of Macragge and try to build a diorama.
>>47176670
Khorne.
>>47184664
Assassins don't get heavy weapons, or thunderhawks, or the other Imperial assets that the Deathwatch controls.
The various assassin temples do not in general work together: each espouses radically different techniques of assassination - infiltration, sniping, close combat, anti-psyker close combat. Two of those utilize stealth or deception, and two are in-yer-face killers. Very difficult for them to work effectively together as they are all designed to work alone.
Space marines work better when part of a team.
Deathwatch wins.
Check and mate.
>>47181699
This sounds like some extremely stupid plotarmor.
>>47186592
Teamwork, while commendable, does not change the fact that the target would know Astartes were arriving before they make planetfall. If it were Assassins, all of whom are most certainly capable of stealth until it's time to utilize their skills, then the target would have no time or foreknowledge to prepare. His closest advisor would be an Assassin, the balcony in which he goes to think would be covered by an Assassin. Hell, the Culexus can just activate his Etherium, walk past all the guards with no fear of being hit and snap the guy's neck. This is all, of course, implying we're talking about a typical target.
>>47183513
FTFY
>>47176670
Bloodthirster, because Swarmlord is Cruddace's fanfiction and not real.
>>47186712
Why would the target know the Deathwatch is coming? Will they tell him? Will they just walk up to him, expecting him to stand there and wait for them to kill him??
tl;dr - why you think Deathwatch no stealth?
>>47186819
Ooh, that's old
>>47184507
Most fights on the TT, as I understand it.
